Guest guest Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Dear brothers and sisters I have a question and I would like to get an answer from Baba , so I would like to ask your help, to make the issue clearer from me. Could you help me? My question is: Is it possible that someone, a person, provokes or contributes to the death of another person ( a loved one), only by thinking or even praying for that, out of fear or anger or mixed and confused feelings? I am psychologist and I have a patient who is suffering a lot with this doubt and I would like to make it clear for him ( and for myself too). I thank you since now for your kind and precious help. Sai Ram Cecilia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 " MANI RVS " <colonel.rvs Wed Mar 5, 2008 7:37 am Re: [saibabanews] I need an answer, please.. Dear Friend OHM JAI SRI SAI RAM No. Emphatically no. All human beings are destined to complete their karma for which they are born. So no one, even with clear intent, can not make the other person meet his/her end, for whatever reason it could be. If that person had exhausted his karma palan, his end will near, no matter what ever be the cause. But since no one is aware of such moment in one's life, it has been repeatedly being preached by our LORD and other saintly Gurus, to start seeing divinity in all; start loving all; do more of service for the little time one had to spend in this earth; never give way to anger and allow it to take control of you; when these simple truths are practiced, I am sure " positive vibrations " emenate from any one. That will take out the feelings as mentioned by you in your note. hope some solution is found in my words At Lord's feet mani ---------- Jayashree Raghavan <sai3jaya Wed Mar 5, 2008 8:02 am Re: [saibabanews] I need an answer, please.. sairam brother/sister It is not correct even to think like that. The omnipresent has given birth to us and He alone should take us and He will do when the time comes. It has been already destined the date of death of a person. So we human beings Nara janma does not have any role to play on it. Hope you can understand. sairam JR ---------- tom dick <xorox66 Wed Mar 5, 2008 8:55 am Re: [saibabanews] I need an answer, please.. Sairam! Dear Cecelia! What a problem to have to wrestle with! Such doubts will only cause you acute anguish ,so let me state categorically what Baba has often said and also borne out of my own experience of life..........no one can will anothers death by wishing for it, least of all of a loved one. The moment of birth and death of each and everyone of us is pre- determined by our Karma which is the net result of good and bad deeds done in previous births. As such the moment of birth and death can only be changed by God and that is rare and the purpose for doing that again is rarely what humans pray for ,but what God intends , that is, to build up faith in divine intervention. Please dont torture yourself with the guilty feeling that your thoughts caused the death of a loved one.It often happens that when we are nursing and caring for a loved one who may be critically ill we may lose our tempers or act in a way we may regret later. This happens with everybody and is caused by the severe strain and trauma of seeing a loved one suffer and feelings of inadquacy and guilt follow out of feelings of utter helplessness and also anger at our helplessness. Well , nobody can change the moment of death or birth of a human being.,so rest assured that none of your thoughts no matter how desperate or wild at that time has any effect whatsoever in determining the moment of death.When dangerously ill, our loved ones may abuse and curse us too. We must bear that pain out of love for our loved ones for that is true love and service to them.Of ten they dont even remember afterwards what they said when they were going through trauma. It is natural to feel pain and anger and hurt if we are cursed or our motives are misunderstood by the very people we are caring for. But we must make a deliberate effort to rise above our feelings and emotions and take a dipassionate view of the situation in its totality so that we understand our own reactions to the situation at that point in time and understand why we felt the way we did.If we feel guilty about them then we have to examine the reasons for that. Most often the guilty feeling after losing someone is that we failed in some way...had we gone to this doctor instead of that doctor etc this would have not happened . The fact is that this had to happen so everything else was a mere excuse that enabled the worst to happen. You cant prevent it and you cant cause it to happen by mere thinking.Such things are in Gods hands alone and only He can prevent or postpone death or will it . We are mere humans and do not have that power. It is Gods Will that is done not yours or mine.I am speaking from personal experience and you can read about a miracle of Baba in saving my life after being declared dead in a road accident in 1981 in my book ( Waiting for Baba by V. Ramnath. ) So I hope this gives you some comfort.Pray to Baba to give you peace of mind and to accept what cannot be changed and also pray to Baba to look after and care for your loved one who has departed.With regards , yours sincerely, v . ramnath. ---------- " ramesh_hariharan_in " <ramesh_hariharan_in Wed Mar 5, 2008 4:52 am Re: I need an answer, please.. Respected Ciclse I repect you are a professional doctor, If you think on the other side as you are Baba, then the answer is simple. please meditate that you are baba, live with in your self, for atleast 1 sec while you are in deep sleep. The inner feeling of u will tell what to do to that cicumtanaces you explained , that is death or to continue to live. rgds, sairam ramesh ---------- " shakuntlavishani " <shakuntlavishani Wed Mar 5, 2008 5:01 am Re: I need an answer, please.. Sai Ram Cecilia Being a Psychologist how can you even doubt that anyone can kill the person with prayers? Why does your patient think that the enemy is so powerful that God really loves him/her and will listen to his/her prayers and grant some innocent person death sentence? I am a Psychologist and a Lecturer in Psychosocial Studies. I have also taken deep interest in studying Anthropology and have studied various cultures and traditions to find out more about such baseless beliefs. These kinds of beliefs have resulted in many deaths and unnecessary sufferings to innocent people. All the suffering and feuds are created due to the survival and daily struggle of life. People turn to such evil beliefs due to desperations and helplessness where the trust between their faith and God is distanced. After suffering immensely due hardship of life and when they cannot see the results, they turn to anything or anybody who can provide quick solution to their problems. However, Psychology offers no room for such irrelevant thinking but suggests that it's all a game of mind where people blame others for their own satisfaction due to jealousy or greed. As a Sai Devotee for last 35years, I have faced many death threats and evil wishes from many loved ones and wealthy Sai Devotees. But Kon bigad sake unka jinke Sai rakhwale hey….My only fault is that I socialize with poor and needy in the community and help them and rich devotees wants me to take their permission to serve these needy. I have surrendered my life to dear Mother Sai and have devoted my life for these Gods people and I don't need anybody's permission to do HIS work. I spend most of my spare time in serving them and I also fight for their rights. But by the grace of Dear Sai Baba, I am still alive, very healthy, happy and in total bliss and do Narayan Seva by serving the whole community. My husband and I travel miles to reach the needy in the villages, hospitals, and in people's home to provide help. We offer emotional and physical help to elderly and sick, we clean and feed them and take them for hospital visits. We also help the poor families with funerals if they cannot afford to bury their dead. By doing these Seva we get total inner peace and whole world seems heaven. We get plenty of love, affection and best wishes and Ashirwad from Elderly, Disabled, Sick and needy who loves us very dearly. These Narayanas help us to feel the Divine presence every time we are serving them. We cry with them, we laugh with them and we sing Divine glory with them no matter which class or creed. When I am with Divine Lord doing his work, none of my Social Science studies are relevant as I just become HIS servant and HE instructs me how to do my job properly. Many times HE comes personally to test my faith in HIM but I have always passed and have never let him down by hurting anyone. Your patient should realise that only God gives life and only HE will decide when a person has to go back to him. NO ONE can kill till their time is been decided by the Life Giver. A humble request to your patient that: `Please surrender yourself unto Sai Nath and offer all your worries and troubles in the Lotus Feet of Dearest Mother Sai Baba. HE will in return grant you total bliss and happiness'. Please request your patient that positive thinking is very necessary in life to live a happy life. Negative thinking only produces heartache and miserable life. Once the total faith is laid in the Lotus Feet of Sai Nath and all his worried will disappear. Your patient should try to pray for all those people who he/she thinks are praying or are wishing evil of him/her. Love towards God and God's work may offer total different direction in life. Sharing other people's problems lessens your own problems. Distance from God only regenerates evil thoughts. Power of devotion does not allow any evil thoughts but enhance divine power and total bliss. Sai Ram Shakuntla Vishani ---------- " chandrashekar " <chandrashekar678 Wed Mar 5, 2008 3:38 am Re: I need an answer, please.. Sai Ram, You are asking us whether a person can be put to death by praying for it. First when do u think of kiling a person?.that will happen only when you think of running away from the problems caused by him/her.That is cowerdness. What if you think the other way.Think that he/she is a challenge to you.Face the challenge rather than running away from it.Find methods to make him/her your friend rather than praying for god to kill him/her.Understand that god himself created that person and god himself created a challenge for you to face.Face it ,and ask god for solutions to solve the problem.Understand that problems and challenges in life always keeps us thinking about god. Swamy says always think positive ,so let us see that we see positive side of all situations and events in our life and let us be brave to face challenges . i donot know if a person can be killed just by praying for it to happen but being a human that is worthless act. SaiRam, ---------- SOSIAN Wed Mar 5, 2008 1:46 am I need an answer, please..here is the answer...Simona from NY CITY Dear Cecilia, I asked Baba for an answer to help you and I was guided to go pick up one of the books called " THE DHARMIC CHALLENGES " by Judy Warner...it happens to me all the time! I opened the book just like this without looking and here you have the answer: According to Dr. Jphn Bishop in his book My Baba and I when we have a problem about which we are uncertain, Baba says that we may quiet our mind for a while,think of him with all our intensity for 10 or 15 minutes and then put our question to him. He assures us that before long our mind will be clear, and we will know what is best to do. Swami also said that since God is in every heart, the inner Voice is the inner signal that Dharma gives while approving or disapproving any line of action. The Dharma you have to follow is indicated by that voice! I reccomend you " THE DHARMIC CHALLENGES " bY Judy Warner...you'll find what I was guided to write you on page 131-132 In Sai Love Service, Simona YOU CAN WRITE ME DIRECTLY ON SOSIAN ---------- ganesha krupa <saibhandu Tue Mar 4, 2008 6:40 pm Re: [saibabanews] I need an answer, please.. Pranams at the divine feet Of Bhagawan Baba, Sai Ram! Mind is the root cause of all the feelings etc.To identify the rootcause of the problem the first step would be to accept that you have the problem.Once the problem is known rectifying would be easy.Swami always says that " You are not the mind,you are not this body but you are divine " .Constant repition of the Lord's name would suppress the negative feelings. If We see Swami in every one then the negative feelings can be suppressed. May Baba's blessings be on everyone! " Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu " . Saibhandu. ---------- Dwalkerpa Tue Mar 4, 2008 8:02 pm Re: [saibabanews] I need an answer, please.. Dear Cecilia, I just can't imagine trying to say what Swami would say but in my understanding all is God, the thought was God, the action is God, the birth was God and the death was God. Also, guilt is not a very useful emotion, it keeps you stuck. Lots of love, D ---------- " fundaser " <fundaser Tue Mar 4, 2008 11:01 pm Re: I need an answer, please.. Dear I never write or answer to this questions, but I know your question it is rather difficult to understand . To your question the answer is yes and no.. No from the divine point of view. No means that only that which is in law due to our past karmas can happen to us. So in the same line of thinking, it could be yes if we have caused death to someone and the equivalent reaction is neccesary to equilibrate or past karmas. For the person who is in grief, probably feeling guilty... I would advice to consider the following facts: 1st we can not damage anyone if it is not in law. So fromthe Divine point of view one gets what one deserves. However, that doesn´t relieve us from our responsibility, so what to do? 2nd Consider that past is gone... we need to look at the present and use past only to learn how to be a better human being. 3rd If he really learned the lesson, he should then know that he must be compasionate and loving to all beings, including himself. Swami says that the first non-violence begings in our mind and starts with ourselves. 4th A final consideration about our past actions is the fact that when burying the seed of our past karmas with the good actions of today they won´t be able to sprout. So forgiveness, love and service must cure any past mistakes. I hope it could help you... God Bless you all, in divine love... Atmananda. ---------- cyclopseven <no_reply > Tue Mar 4, 2008 11:04 pm Re: I need an answer, please.. Refer to your question. Its indeed interesting to see how far and to what extend human intentions can reach. I have heard about people praying for others downfall and also death. But, from my experience I have never seen things such as that taken place, but I don't deny any possibilities that such a thing can happen. Only Swami knows and able to answer you. Ask Him directly. Sincere prayers are always answered. Meanwhile I would advise you to try the Sai Sanjeevini Healing Fragrance method on this patient of yours. Please refer to : http://www.saisanjeevini.org. God Bless. ---------- " Felicia Gironda " <fgironda Tue Mar 4, 2008 11:14 pm Re: [saibabanews] I need an answer, please.. Sai Ram Cecilia, I don't think we can provoke or contribute to the death of someone by our thoughts any more then we could contribute to the birth of someone just by our thoughts. Birth and Death are very significant activities subject to Brahma , Vishnu and Shiva as well as our thoughts ,words and deeds. I lovingly suggest the patient both forgive the loved one and seek forgiveness from the loved one for any intentional or unintentional imbalance. There is a Hawaiian healing system based on us forgiving ourselves even (!) May SWami continue to bless you Cecilia in your care of your patients, At His Lotus Feet, Felicia ---------- " G. Balasubramanian " <gbsub Tue Mar 4, 2008 11:47 pm Fwd: [saibabanews] I need an answer, please.. SAI RAM, Simply because I wish or pray for the death of another person that person will not die consequent on my wishes or prayers. Death is like a return air ticket wherein the date of return journey is written in indelible ink by God. So also even if trillions of men and women pray and wish long life for say, a noble soul, it will not materialise. Each one of us is accountable for our present as well as past Good and bad thoughts, actions etc. etc. Depending on the gravity of those actions etc., one has to live in a particular embodiment for predetermined number of years, months,days, hours, minutes and seconds. Hence tell your patient not to worry. SAI RAM ---------- Arun Laxman <arunl Wed Mar 5, 2008 12:58 am Re: [saibabanews] I need an answer, please.. Swami mentioned a few examples.. " I " " want " " peace " I = ego Want = desire eliminate the above you have everlasting " peace " am sure Swami will make you see the matrix and help you resolve from here. Aum Sai Ram ---------- " amma754 " <amma754 Wed Mar 5, 2008 6:49 am Re: I need an answer, please.. om sai ram, if this is possible in the same manner a person can win a lottary bumper or can convert miser to generous person or can make old to young or we can change evil person to good person and a fool to wise. this type of thinking is invited to enjoy a happy life with a good society. swami vivekananda has said our mind is connected with universal mind. if i think of my loved one like a telepathy it goes to him and he think of me.well we can pray to recover a person not to kill a person. mind is an instument like a knife it can be used for good and bad work.jesus gave life to a dead, vision to blind all can't do that.we have to exercise pure mind meditation hard work like buddha.only our guru baba can clear our dault.................. saibabanews , " martone " <martone wrote: > > Dear brothers and sisters > > I have a question and I would like to get an answer from Baba , so I would like to ask your help, to make the issue clearer from me. Could you help me? > > My question is: > > Is it possible that someone, a person, provokes or contributes to the death of another person ( a loved one), only by thinking or even praying for that, out of fear or anger or mixed and confused feelings? > > I am psychologist and I have a patient who is suffering a lot with this doubt and I would like to make it clear for him ( and for myself too). > > I thank you since now for your kind and precious help. > > Sai Ram > Cecilia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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