Service to man & Service to God -Are they same or entirely different?

[Guest guest]

Jai Guru Datta.

 

Happy Diwali wishes to all.

 

On this issue, perhaps it would be helpful to understand the stance of the great

saint Ramana Maharishi.

 

Ramana Maharishi was a great exponent of Kevala Advaita. The 'world' according

to him was only a projection of the mind, and on completing serious sadhana, it

is revealed that the world is only a dream, and that Brahman is the only

reality. The individual, God (with form and attributes) and 'world' arise only

when you wake up from deep sleep state, prior to which there is only the

blissful deep sleep state. Therefore, he advocated that self enquiry/sadhana was

the greatest 'service' one could do to Guru, God and the world.

 

Having said that, he never discouraged social service, and he himself was known

for his kindness and generosity towards fellow beings, including animals and

plants.

 

It would be interesting to know of Swamiji's views in this matter.

 

Regards

Vaidheesh

 

 

 

 

--- On Sat, 17/10/09, Hari <hsurapar wrote:

 

Hari <hsurapar

Service to man & Service to God -Are they same or

entirely different?

JAIGURUDATTA

Saturday, 17 October, 2009, 3:47 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

JGD,

 

 

 

Apologies if this topic has already been addressed earlier. I had few

 

queries a while ago and I thought I found reasonable answers to those.

 

But since I keep thinking about those very same questions now and

 

then, I probably didn't answer them well enough the first time. So, I

 

hope one of you can help me resolve these issues

 

 

 

In this economy how should one balance Service to mankind vs Service

 

to God? Are these 2 mutually exclusive or both interrelated? If both

 

are exclusive what takes priority?

 

 

 

Let me take a step back.

 

 

 

Who is actually benefiting from me serving god?- Me..right? It feels

 

like my objective is to spiritually lift myself and develop a deeper

 

understanding of life. Then because in a way I am doing this for

 

myself-aren' t my actions then selfish? Although this deeper

 

understanding of life will probably make me more compassionate and

 

less greedy and help those in need.

 

 

 

Then does it mean serving the mankind for lack of a better word is

 

" selfless " or " preferred " ?

 

 

 

But then lets say I devote all my time and energy assisting the food

 

bank--> which in turn helps feed poor people. This act probably helped

 

someone eat a meal for a day or two. But it didn't solve the root

 

cause.. So who or in what way did my actions exactly help?

 

 

 

Or I am looking at this in a totally wrong way? Should I even be

 

concerned with what the end result is?

 

 

 

SGD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, send attachments up to 25MB with India Mail. Learn how.

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[Guest guest]

There are no 'selfless' actions as long as you feel you are the doer.  There are

no 'selfish' actions so long as the actions are surrendered to God.  If you say

" I surrender " - you have not yet surrendered, " I " is still there and is just

saying " I surrendered " .  For an action to be 'selfless' YOU (the questioner)

must first go, as long as the questioner is there, there is no question of

selfless-ness.

 

On a more practical note:  Unless you are spending 24-hours a day feeding

homeless people, there is no reason that one cannot do both within reason as the

situation arises.  Karma is alone the cause of all properity and difficulties in

life - homeless/hungry people were there long before you were born, and they

will be there long after you die - so there is no question of 'saving them' (it

is a fantasy concoted by 'do-gooders').  That said, if you have the opportunity

and the means to do something, by all means, do something.  However, do not do

it under some false pretense that you are doing them a favor, lest your ego is

stoked that you are the doer and that these individuals are the benefactors of

your doership.  As long as you are worried about the fruit, and anyone who asks

this question, is ~implicitly~ interested only in the fruit; there can be no

self-lessness in your action.  The question 'Why should I do?' or 'How should I

do?' cannot

exist unless the 'I' is there 'to do'.  When an action is performed without

regard to the question, or the questioner, it is self-less.  By continued

practice of self-less action (absent-minded) action, one's vasanas are weakened

and the sense of 'self' dissolves like a cube of salt in the ocean. 

 

That said, no karmas will yield Moksha, ...Jnana alone is the means.  That said,

Jnana in the absence of bhakthi leads one to false lines of logic (logic with

subtle holes, that only He can resolve).  Good Karma however is a pre-requisite

for the gradual attainment of that Wisdom which leads one away from the cycle of

Birth and Death.

 

For a person who distinguishes and says 'This is service to man' and 'This is

service to God' - selfishness is there like white on rice (not brown rice, of

course).  For one who moves from one to the other seamlessly without distinction

( " bhedha " or difference), there is neither, His is the true Nishkamya karma, and

will not stain Him.  Only a true Yogi is established in this state of

perfect equanimity.

 

In general, you will find that only those who truly serve God, are able to be

effective in their service to Man.  Otherwise, you are like the guy who wears

pots and pans, ...wherever you go, you will only add to the noise that is

already there, in your exhuberance  to 'help others' you will be creating more

problems for them, unbeknownst to you.

 

Help yourself first (not by taking from everyone, but by surrendering what you

have... your " I " ... to His holy feet), then worry about saving everyone else,

and see for yourself if anyone needs your saving.  God takes care of everything

and everyone, whether one believes so, or not.

 

Jaya Guru Datta!

 

p.s. Please understand: In the explanation above the word " you " is used in the

general sense (you all / everyone), not directed at the person who wrote the

email, asked the question, or anyone else.

---

Gurorangripadme ManaScenna Lagnam tata: kim! tata: kim! tata: kim! tata: kim!?

Sarva Kartha, Sarva Dhartha, Sarva Hartha, Mangalam!

Satchidananda, Satchidananda, Satchidananda Mangalam!

Tasmai Sri Guru-murthaye Nama Idam Sri Dakshinamurtaye!

 

 

Ata Nityo Narayanaha, Brahma Narayanaha, Sivascha Narayanaha, Kalascha

Narayanaha. Disascha Narayanaha, Vidisascha Narayanaha, Urdwamscha Narayanaha,

Adhascha Narayanaha, Antar-bahischa-Narayana.Narayana Eh Vedam Sarvam, Yat

BhootamYacchha Bhavyam.Nish-kalango Niranjano Nirvikalpo Nirakyadhas,suddhho

Deva Eko Narayanaha, Na dwiteeyosthi kaschit,ya evam Vedas Vishnu reva Bhavati,

Sa Vishnureva Bhavathi, Etat yajur veda sirodeeyathe.

 

 

Sundara Sundara Siva Siva! Karuna Bandhura Siva Siva! Karuna Rupa Spanda Siva!

Girisha Sat-Chit-Ananda Siva!

 

 

Jaya Jaya Jnana Bodha Sabha, ...Atma Tattva Bodha Sabha, ...Bhakthi Jnana

Vairagya Sabha, ...Namasankeerthana Dhama Sabha

 

 

Satchitananda Rupaya, Krishnayaa Aklishtakarine, Namo Vedanta Vedyaya, Gurave

Buddhi Saakshine

 

 

" Rama nama ki madhura milaye, janma janma dukha doora bagaye ...Satchidananda

Guru vachana mithaye "

 

 

~*Om * Ayim * Hreem * Sreem * Siva * Rama * Anagha * Dattaya * Namaha*~

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jaya Guru Datta

 

That I must admit is very nicely put. Incidently I was just musing over

Yogavasishta Hridayam by Sri Kuppa garu yesterday and the following is what I

think would be a logical extension to the wonderful explanation by Dattatreya

Hare Krishna.

 

In brief .....

 

Karma and Jnana are like the two wings of a bird that help it to fly. In this

case to lead the soul to moksha.

 

Karma essentially cleanses and purifies chitta - the aspect of mind that

stores thoughts. It refers to selfless action.

 

Jnana then removes the avidya and gives the right knowledge.

 

The answer to the question raised is neither an easy or direct one nor can it be

fully understood  by intellectual relfection alone. It can only be experienced

by putting onself through the right sadhana and the answer will manifest within

the sadhaka by SADGURU KRIPA at the appropriate time.

 

In the above context, I feel that the 'service to man' and 'service to God' are

one and the same if the attitude at the time of this " service to man " is one of

selfless action. The moment one's thoughts' crossover into working out the

likely benefits the " service to man " is going to bestow on the 'man', it is

disqualified as a selfless karma. Action in itself is nothing. The

thoughts (attitude) behind that is what makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE.

 

 

Sri Guru Datta

Shailendra

-------------Kriya Yogo

Vivardhatam------------------------------

www.meetup.com/kriya-yoga

 

--- On Sun, 10/18/09, Dattatreya Hare Krishna <oneinfinitezero wrote:

 

 

Dattatreya Hare Krishna <oneinfinitezero

Re: Service to man & Service to God -Are they same or

entirely different?

jaigurudatta

Sunday, October 18, 2009, 8:06 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are no 'selfless' actions as long as you feel you are the doer.  There are

no 'selfish' actions so long as the actions are surrendered to God.  If you say

" I surrender " - you have not yet surrendered, " I " is still there and is just

saying " I surrendered " .  For an action to be 'selfless' YOU (the questioner)

must first go, as long as the questioner is there, there is no question of

selfless-ness.

 

On a more practical note:  Unless you are spending 24-hours a day feeding

homeless people, there is no reason that one cannot do both within reason as the

situation arises.  Karma is alone the cause of all properity and difficulties in

life - homeless/hungry people were there long before you were born, and they

will be there long after you die - so there is no question of 'saving them' (it

is a fantasy concoted by 'do-gooders' ).  That said, if you have the opportunity

and the means to do something, by all means, do something.  However, do not do

it under some false pretense that you are doing them a favor, lest your ego is

stoked that you are the doer and that these individuals are the benefactors of

your doership.  As long as you are worried about the fruit, and anyone who asks

this question, is ~implicitly~ interested only in the fruit; there can be no

self-lessness in your action.  The question 'Why should I do?' or 'How should I

do?'

cannot

exist unless the 'I' is there 'to do'.  When an action is performed without

regard to the question, or the questioner, it is self-less.  By continued

practice of self-less action (absent-minded) action, one's vasanas are weakened

and the sense of 'self' dissolves like a cube of salt in the ocean. 

 

That said, no karmas will yield Moksha, ...Jnana alone is the means.  That said,

Jnana in the absence of bhakthi  leads one to false lines of logic (logic with

subtle holes, that only He can resolve).  Good Karma however is a pre-requisite

for the gradual attainment of that Wisdom which leads one away from the cycle of

Birth and Death.

 

For a person who distinguishes and says 'This is service to man' and 'This is

service to God' - selfishness is there like white on rice (not brown rice, of

course).  For one who moves from one to the other seamlessly without distinction

( " bhedha " or difference), there is neither, His is the true Nishkamya karma, and

will not stain Him.  Only a true Yogi is established in this state of

perfect equanimity.

 

In general, you will find that only those who truly serve God, are able to be

effective in their service to Man.  Otherwise, you are like the guy who wears

pots and pans, ...wherever you go, you will only add to the noise that is

already there, in your exhuberance  to 'help others' you will be creating more

problems for them, unbeknownst to you.

 

Help yourself first (not by taking from everyone, but by surrendering what you

have... your " I " ... to His holy feet), then worry about saving everyone else,

and see for yourself if anyone needs your saving.  God takes care of everything

and everyone, whether one believes so, or not.

 

Jaya Guru Datta!

 

p.s. Please understand: In the explanation  above the word " you " is used in the

general sense (you all / everyone), not directed at the person who wrote the

email, asked the question, or anyone else.

---

Gurorangripadme ManaScenna Lagnam tata: kim! tata: kim! tata: kim! tata: kim!?

Sarva Kartha, Sarva Dhartha, Sarva Hartha, Mangalam!

Satchidananda, Satchidananda, Satchidananda Mangalam!

Tasmai Sri Guru-murthaye Nama Idam Sri Dakshinamurtaye!

 

Ata Nityo Narayanaha, Brahma Narayanaha, Sivascha Narayanaha, Kalascha

Narayanaha. Disascha Narayanaha, Vidisascha Narayanaha, Urdwamscha Narayanaha,

Adhascha Narayanaha, Antar-bahischa- Narayana. Narayana Eh Vedam Sarvam, Yat

BhootamYacchha Bhavyam.Nish- kalango Niranjano Nirvikalpo Nirakyadhas, suddhho

Deva Eko Narayanaha, Na dwiteeyosthi kaschit,ya evam Vedas Vishnu reva Bhavati,

Sa Vishnureva Bhavathi, Etat yajur veda sirodeeyathe.

 

Sundara Sundara Siva Siva! Karuna Bandhura Siva Siva! Karuna Rupa Spanda Siva!

Girisha Sat-Chit-Ananda Siva!

 

Jaya Jaya Jnana Bodha Sabha, ...Atma Tattva Bodha Sabha, ...Bhakthi Jnana

Vairagya Sabha, ...Namasankeerthana Dhama Sabha

 

Satchitananda Rupaya, Krishnayaa Aklishtakarine, Namo Vedanta Vedyaya, Gurave

Buddhi Saakshine

 

" Rama nama ki madhura milaye, janma janma dukha doora bagaye ...Satchidananda

Guru vachana mithaye "

 

~*Om * Ayim * Hreem * Sreem * Siva * Rama * Anagha * Dattaya * Namaha*~

 

 

[Guest guest]

The first and foremost question is how one can do service to God? Where is

he? Why can’t we see him?

 

 

 

As man can not meet God in person during kaliyuga, so the scriptures say Manava

Seva(Human service) is considered as Madhava Seva (Devine service), Sadguru

teaches us to do manava seva with selfless motive and helps us to see

Madhava (God) in each human being while serving with tolerance.

 

 

 

As Sadguru is considered as *living God*, so service to him is like doing

service to God. But Sadguru too asks his disciples to do service the fellow

human beings. By doing this one learns love towards the fellow human beings

regardless of caste, religion, creed. The service can be of any type. One

can not love some and hate others. Doing service to human beings, helps one

to realize his negative elements and tries to remove those. It helps one

to remove his prarabdhakarma*.* *Prarabdhakarma* is result of actions in the

previous life. In each life, two things comes along with us like shadows

that are good karma and bad karma(sins) from previous life. We alone have to

reap the fruits of our actions. It is inevitable for a body to perform as

per the dictates of atma, the soul within. Only Sadguru can tell us. To wipe

off the bad karma & arishadvargas i.e kaama., krodha, lobha, moha, mada,

maatsarya (Desire, Anger, Miserliness, Undue fascination, Lustfulness,

Jealous*)*, the *Grace of Sadguru is needed*.

 

 

 

If one is not having arishadvargas then surrender at the feet of Lord. *Sadguru

teaches us about Atma Jnana **(Knowledge of Self) **and Spiritual path to

attain the Lotus feet of Lord. *

 

 

 

It is God or Sadguru who decides whom to give and whom not to give

moksha(salvation).

 

He might give to one who has done nothing or to the person who has reached

high level of spiritual consciousness(yogi) through *Atma Jnana **(Knowledge

of Self). *It all his creation.

 

 

On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Hari <hsurapar wrote:

 

>

>

> JGD,

>

> Apologies if this topic has already been addressed earlier. I had few

> queries a while ago and I thought I found reasonable answers to those.

> But since I keep thinking about those very same questions now and

> then, I probably didn't answer them well enough the first time. So, I

> hope one of you can help me resolve these issues

>

> In this economy how should one balance Service to mankind vs Service

> to God? Are these 2 mutually exclusive or both interrelated? If both

> are exclusive what takes priority?

>

> Let me take a step back.

>

> Who is actually benefiting from me serving god?- Me..right? It feels

> like my objective is to spiritually lift myself and develop a deeper

> understanding of life. Then because in a way I am doing this for

> myself-aren't my actions then selfish? Although this deeper

> understanding of life will probably make me more compassionate and

> less greedy and help those in need.

>

> Then does it mean serving the mankind for lack of a better word is

> " selfless " or " preferred " ?

>

> But then lets say I devote all my time and energy assisting the food

> bank--> which in turn helps feed poor people. This act probably helped

> someone eat a meal for a day or two. But it didn't solve the root

> cause.. So who or in what way did my actions exactly help?

>

> Or I am looking at this in a totally wrong way? Should I even be

> concerned with what the end result is?

>

> SGD

>

>