Guest guest Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 The answer is very simple, We have no right or proprietorship to forgive. What authority do we have to forgive, or to be accurate to dissolve sin. or to burn Karma. The real meaning of forgiving is to Burn Karma, which is ultimately done by Lord, at his mercy. Same goes to punish also, We neither have proprietorship to punish someone. Sp what we should do, we Should do our DUTY. This DUTY should be consulted from Scriptures, Protecting Ones own interest, for serving lord is our duty. and in this protection we may have to fight. Here comes the distinguishing, of the Four castes as described by the veda's. Depending on our Levels of enlightenment, we belong to one of the case, and we have a set of duties, which we do for the sake of lord, as our service to him. So at last , all the time, let anyone do bad or good, or anything else, we have to do our duty, as our service of lord. Only in this case we are free fomr all the bondage and all material reactions. See when we are grounded to infinite source, we are not affected by finite karma. In rudimentary form, see when a Current wire is Earthed , as earth is infinite source, and all electricity belongs actually to it, We are not affected with shock. When we get a current shock, as we are in connection to the infinite source, we are protected by the infinity. We feel the shock is absorbed by the source, but the reality is we are protected from the shock, because we are connected to the owner of all such shocks. -- Deito , " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote: > > Dear Sadhakas, > > During chatting with a new sadhaka he posed me the following > question : > > - > " Dear Aum the question arises weather we should forgive a person > who is always making trouble to us or who is after our career or > even life? taking it as the result of our past karmas and will of > god? like jesus. > > or we must fight against the evil as lord krishna advised? > > or may we take a middle path like mahatma gandhi to protest in a > peaceful manner? " > > > > Friends, it is very important to know the correct approach, > when we are faced with Negativity attacking us. What should one do. > > Books and Philosophies are ok...but our Sadhna must tell us a > way to deal with the problems of life. > > What are your views on this... please elaborate so that our new > sadhaka can read them here and make up his mind > > Thanks in advance > > AUM > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 > " Dear Aum the question arises weather we should forgive a person > who is always making trouble to us or who is after our career or Babaji, it depends. Maybe nature wants us to fight, maybe its our own ego? The 1st thing we should determine is, is this our egoistical fight, or something that Mother Nature requires us to do(eg to destroy -vity, like Pandavs had to do). If we can determine it isnt our ego( & we have to be very honest with ourselves), next is, we should still try to reason with that person once, like Krishna went to Kauravs as peace envoy. We should be thinking, God, Im giving this person one chance, if you dont want me to fight, make him stop " . If that person still insults us, like Duryodhan insulted Krishna, then we can be sure the System wants us to fight. Now we should fight 100%, showing no mercy, or emotional weakness, like Arjun showed at start of war. Nature or God rarely comes down to fight personally, but usually uses his Bhaktas & advanced souls as tools. If we refuse to fight, & become sanyasis when we should be fighting, we turn Nature against us, she becomes our enemy. In Arjuns case, since he was a very high soul, God himself came to correct his mistake, but that happen for us or everyone! So if you have to fight, fight with full enthusiasm! When a war is on, dont show any mercy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 , " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote: > " Dear Aum the question arises weather we should forgive a person > who is always making trouble to us or who is after our career or > even life? taking it as the result of our past karmas and will of > god? like jesus. > > or we must fight against the evil as lord krishna advised? > > or may we take a middle path like mahatma gandhi to protest in a > peaceful manner? " > > all these three are not really different.keep it natural. There is nothing in it that you need to think about. On a second thought thinking wont make much a difference. People react according to thier nature. Those who are forgiving never take revenge, they always forgive from the core of thier heart, there are people who retaliate and defend themselves though in a just manner, there are people who retaliate in ananger and envy. >If you dont feel angry its great. There is nothing better than forbearance, wisdom(remembering that its karma etc) and forgiveness. But it has to be instinctive .You cant force it upon yourself. Because if you are angry and you supress your anger you will feel stifled,unhappy and frustrated and later all the negative feelings will hit back probably with more force. Its better to be honest to yourself than stifle yourself.Endure and be peaceful as long as you can.Its the best thing. When you think and feel you cant do that any longer do whatever you feel like except trying to take revenge, hurting etc.Krishna allowed Mahabharata for the sake of peace and justice in the long run. Its the heart which matters most.It should be clear no matter what one does on the outside.As long as its clean one need not worry. When people harass you, you can fight but fighting will never help.You will have to bear what you have to because its karma.Dont think that they are responsible for it because actually they arent.If you take a wrong step and become weak ie if you become angry and fight back it wont do you much good; your destiny wont change and this will not help you in long run , u will become susceptible to anger and retaliation. But if something wrong is happening we should not keep mum but speak against it as a duty.Its not right that you allow fools to think that you are a coward.They will take undue advantage of it. Forgive from heart, fight only outwardly ie if you have to. But personally I think (out of my ownexperiences) that there is nothing as great as wisdom, forgiveness and doing the good of others even if they harm you. All the three you mentioned above did this in different ways. Hope I didnt confuse lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Humble Obeisances to all! Regarding the evil one, we should resort to law of the land if our life or carrier is threaten and there is no other way. We can not take law in our hands and we have no right to forgive such miscreant because once he is escaped, he may pose danger to many ones like us. A stitch in time saves nine. This is very hard time and forget about other non-violent ways without being violent, outragious or vindictive. When we under protection of law, we should seek its help fearlessly. Gita has taught us to live fearlesstly and cautiously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Dear Babaji. Pranam. In my opinion i would say its a question of tollerence. As there always two sides/ways, even if it is a result of our past Karma, are we tested for forgiving or fighting it out or even are we testd for the tollerence level we have. Forgiving is not a bad idea. But its again a question of how may times can you forgive for the same reason? Giving a chance even to an Idiot may have some result, but if the problem is prolonged then There is a saying in Tamil : Dhustanai kandal dhoora vilagu : means get out of sight of the harmfull person, ignore him. But again if he/she/persons trouble again then its time for action. If a person even after forgiving / ignoring , troubles again then its time to fight against it till the core. The figthing should be intense and should put an end to the problem and it should not lead to life long / generation long fights. Fighting alone cannot solve every problem at the start, in your words start with forgiving, then try gandhian way if not let the shell be blown in full note. Shivaya Namah Aum. Thiruchitrambalam. Senthil. ------------------------------ > " Dear Aum the question arises weather we should forgive a person > who is always making trouble to us or who is after our career or > even life? taking it as the result of our past karmas and will of > god? like jesus. > > or we must fight against the evil as lord krishna advised? > > or may we take a middle path like mahatma gandhi to protest in a > peaceful manner? " > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Dear sadhakas, I would forgive them first or forgive them when they ask for it to us. But at the same time, i will leave this to god. If we forgive them for their trouble. The effect of their karma will be little decreased. Atleast by that way they won't suffer much. If we leave it to god, god knows how to deal with them and make them understand. So our duty is to forgive them and leave it to god. Fighting will create a new karma, becuase in one or the other way we may hurt them and get bad karma. So if you leave it to god. We won;t get the bad karma. We just avoide that. Sarvamaatha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Thanks all those who replied to this important question. This quetions is very logical and is faced by all be it sadhaka or a common man...whereas common person can resort to common means...a sadhaka has to think it spiritually. I loved Deito's words here as to who are we to forgive or punish. Those who said Forgive... i have a very serious doubt here. Forgiving is a very tricky word. In most of the cases we forgive because we cant do any harm to that person...so that forgiveness comes out of cowardice, Shame, or to avoid the conflict..and in all these cases forgiveness is not really divine, but hypocricy. Real forgiving is when we are capable to punish a person, we have logical and moral reasons and no fear of being caught...and then we forgive... but i rarely saw this happening. Second question is if by forgiving the enemy, aren't we encouraging his evil designs, in a subtle way ? Mohamed Gauri attacked India 17 times, each time he was defeated and was forgiven by Prithviraj Singh. I will call it height of stupidity that enemy attacks, our Indian king wins and he forgives him...and he comes back with refreshed force. 18th time Gauri won, and he blinded the indian king and snatched his kingdom....he did not forgive even once against 17 forgivings. Till we are not faced with the actual situation, it is very easy to be a goody-goody boy and say Forgive the Enemy. So what should we do ? Kill the enemy ? pls reply on this argument. (it is not to say forgiving is bad.. it is to bring out more truths out AUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 > So what should we do ? Kill the enemy ? pls reply on this > argument. (it is not to say forgiving is bad.. it is to bring out > more truths out If we have to fight- it should be 100%. Either become like Buddha, above the world- whenever Buddha went for 50 km everyone would become peaceful, animals would stop killing. So either become like Budha, that no one would want to attack you. But if you cant reach that level, or Nature wants you to fight, then fight with full passion. Kill everyone, torture them, do what a warrior does. If you have to become a warrior, become 100%. If a Buddha, 100%. Whats this today Im Gandhi, because I cant fight back, tommorow I become Genghis Khan because I have power. Prithvi Raj Chauhan was a fool- his forgiveness was not from heart, but from the lower mental ego " What a great man I am, Im forgiving him! " Rajput Kings often had this sort of petty ego. Who was he to pretend to be great? His kingdom, subjects were in danger, he should have dealt with the enemy with extreme prejudice. He failed his Kshatriya Dharma. All this forgiving stuff is an excuse for cowardice. A weak man cannot forgive anyone. I remember a documentary on Discovery on Kalripayattu, Indias martial art. The Master said " One of the advantages of being a Master warrior is, you can say to someone- I dont want to fight you. Its because you know you can beat the other person easily, but still you forgive him. How can a coward say " I dont want to fight you " - first you must be in a position of strength " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 , shanracer <no_reply wrote: That z great Shanracer... if we have to become Buddha be 100% Buddha...or become 100% Changez Khan This is marvellous.. we should be on top good or bad is nothing in the eyes of God AUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Dear Aum, Forgiving them is a love from you to them. Then how can it be a shame? It is also one way of showing love towards who did mistake. That itself will make them guilty and change them. Forgiving cannot be an encouragement. It is love. As your love towards god. Just like that.I know forgiving enemy is not that easy. But it is all in pratice we do. It is also one kind of sadhana. Sarvamaatha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Dear Mayandi, I was talking of practical aspect, where people feel ashamed so they forgive. I wished to convey that the real forgiveness is when we are powerful....not to hide our shame or cowardness. If a wrestler slaps a weak man...and he says- ok I forgive you (becuase if he fights back he will be defeated)...so to save himself from shame of defeat, he hides behind the curtain of forgiveness. will you accept this forgiveness as genuine ? AUM , sarvamaatha <no_reply wrote: > Forgiving them is a love from you to them. Then how can it be a shame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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