Impossible Request-- visits...

[Guest guest]

What is Circle of Love's *policy* on visits?

And what kind of preparation (ie, training)

is given? I would think visits would be a

little later in the growth of the program.

 

I mean, I don't know how much they've changed

Mother's Kitchen in the DC area, but I was

very shocked when I delivered food

one-time and an obviously beaten-woman was

checking in. I hadn't been prepared for

seeing such real-life bruises that can only

come one way. And there were other issues,

of how the Amma-sevites handled inmate upsets

(ie, drama) that happened from time to time

because of inmates arguing over bed choice, etc.

Another time, I noticed a young woman my age

trying to get my attention alot, and as much

as I felt bad for her, I knew better than

to get personally involved in any way.

 

You could do it two ways: Have a no-visit policy

and that's the response you give. Or, have rules

governing visits, like no single-person visits, to

keep the sevites mindful and not get drawn in too

personally.

 

I think the visits are a bad idea, unless they're

on death row with no chance of parole. It opens

a whole can of worms, of personal relationships

and whether the sevites possess adequate mental

health to both be supportive and not endanger

their own well-being.

 

It might even introduce a liability that MA Center

may not be willing to underwrite.

 

Ammachi , " Aikya Param " <aikya wrote:

>

> Hi everybody. I got a request yesterday and the human me is rolling

> my eyes and saying " Impossible! " So this must be Amma's department.

>

> The request came from a young man in Sumner, Illinois -- in prison

> in Sumner, IL. He really appreciates the letters he receives from

> his Circle of Love Inside letter writer but she writes very

> infrequently. Now I could get all huffy puffy about this, but I know

> that I am really busy and I don't wrote to my correspondents as

> often as they probably would like. He wrote to ask if someone else

> could write to him -- and -- here's the hard part -- VISIT him.

(snipped)

[Guest guest]

One of our Satsang members visited Michael who is in a maximum

facility. If I understand this, he was the one of the persons who

inspired the COL Inside to begin. Aikya and Themba could tell us more

on that. My friend, Mary Anna said the visit was inspiring to visit

him and listen to his complete devotion to Amma. I was unable to go

on that particular visit. Amma works in the most mysterious ways. I

send him an Amma card and it arrived precisely on his birthday! It

was the only card he received that day.

 

If someone decides to visit, that is a personal choice. No one is

forced to go-it's something that you are inspired to do to lend an

ear, a heart and Amma's love, nothing more. We all know we are making

our own personal choices on this. It's probably not for everyone.

 

in Her service,

Adriane

 

Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull wrote:

>

> What is Circle of Love's *policy* on visits?

> And what kind of preparation (ie, training)

> is given? I would think visits would be a

> little later in the growth of the program.

>

> I mean, I don't know how much they've changed

> Mother's Kitchen in the DC area, but I was

> very shocked when I delivered food

> one-time and an obviously beaten-woman was

> checking in. I hadn't been prepared for

> seeing such real-life bruises that can only

> come one way. And there were other issues,

> of how the Amma-sevites handled inmate upsets

> (ie, drama) that happened from time to time

> because of inmates arguing over bed choice, etc.

> Another time, I noticed a young woman my age

> trying to get my attention alot, and as much

> as I felt bad for her, I knew better than

> to get personally involved in any way.

>

> You could do it two ways: Have a no-visit policy

> and that's the response you give. Or, have rules

> governing visits, like no single-person visits, to

> keep the sevites mindful and not get drawn in too

> personally.

>

> I think the visits are a bad idea, unless they're

> on death row with no chance of parole. It opens

> a whole can of worms, of personal relationships

> and whether the sevites possess adequate mental

> health to both be supportive and not endanger

> their own well-being.

>

> It might even introduce a liability that MA Center

> may not be willing to underwrite.

>

> Ammachi , " Aikya Param " <aikya@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi everybody. I got a request yesterday and the human me is

rolling

> > my eyes and saying " Impossible! " So this must be Amma's

department.

> >

> > The request came from a young man in Sumner, Illinois -- in

prison

> > in Sumner, IL. He really appreciates the letters he receives

from

> > his Circle of Love Inside letter writer but she writes very

> > infrequently. Now I could get all huffy puffy about this, but I

know

> > that I am really busy and I don't wrote to my correspondents as

> > often as they probably would like. He wrote to ask if someone

else

> > could write to him -- and -- here's the hard part -- VISIT him.

> (snipped)

>

[Guest guest]

Temba, it's obvious you're someone " on the level " that wouldn't be

negatively affected by visits to others. But there's a real danger

in getting involved with any stranger. Thinking that Amma will

protect everyone is naive (just ask those who've left over the years).

 

I think that there should be clear guidelines from Amma/Dayamrita

regarding visits to jails, or even mental institutions. While your

intention is good, sevites may be manipulated by predatory

personalities. There's many a Poor-Me story to go around.

 

So it should be examined, as to how often the person requesting VISITS

is getting written to, and if it falls within the guidelines for being

*adequate* in the program. Anybody in a jail or hospital is going

to be lonely and needy, but this needs to be balanced against real

issues (ie, is the person requesting more than what's healthy for all

sides).

 

If the goal is to write and correspond, then aim for that goal. If

the goal is to comfort (ie, " Amma's job " as Dayamrita once told a

story), then there's no limit to what that would entail. Stop being

fools about this stuff.

 

tom

 

Ammachi , temba spirits <tembaspirits wrote:

>

> dear beloved family.CIRCLE OF LOVE INSIDE was inititaed by

utilized prison visits as well as letter writing. (snipped)

[Guest guest]

Themba,

thanks so much for sharing this. You are such a joy and inspiration

and yet remain ever so humble. We heard that we had another sevite in

St. Louis that contacted you about Pine Ridge? Is that correct? If

so, let me know or send me an email so that we may connect.

 

We are involved in the birthday cards along with other Satsangs now.

It is really a joy to get their cards and letters of thanks in

return. Some are wistful in recollecting how they made an error in

judgement that they long regret. None have asked for sympathy or

anything like that. On a deeper level it was simply their desire to

be able to connect to someone who might show simply compassion. Their

deep longing for human connection is apparent as it seems for many

that their friends and families have long forgotten them.

 

I really enjoyed Amma's own personal letter to all of those who were

waiting for letter writers. If we can uplift even just one other

person, what a great gift this is. COL and COL inside are just

magnificent inspirations for our beloved Amma, our guru, our Divine

Mother and infinite Love.

 

at Her feet,

Adriane

 

Ammachi , temba spirits <tembaspirits

wrote:

>

>

> dear beloved family.CIRCLE OF LOVE INSIDE was inititaed by

utilized prison visits as well as letter writing.it actually began

INSIDE.the first letter was written by AMMAs sun temba,to the MA

center while he was incarsarated.sw.dayamrita responded and sent

temba books which he distributed to all the guys.when temba came home

from another jail bid,he through AMMAs grace ,commited to visiting

the men he was locked up with and he also wrote them.

> Michael was some one who AMMAs sun immediately recognized as

having many gifts too share with the world.he was fearless in his

approach to life.he use to be so proud to introduce AMMAs sun as his

teacher.he fell in love with AMMA and had dreams with HER in it.he is

now known by most of the men he has been locked up with a geniuos

monk.Michael was the first person that temba visited and wrote

letters to.i love him like i love LIFE.michael is so dear to this

heart.he has a lot of time to do,but AMMA has assued this heart that

he will meet AMMA in person one day.for anymore questions ,please

call @641-233-8255

> CIRCLE OF LOVE inside is but a label given to yet another form of

AMMAs unstoppable compassion in action.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Can only speak from my own experience. For many years went into high

security prisons and worked with men and women charged for Capital Murder.

Worked

for mitigation of death sentences. Never experience the energy that Tom is

suggesting, in fact, soon found that going into the prisons was one of the

safest places to be. In my experience there where many precautions in place

by the prisons, and there was always a guard near by at all times. I worked

with a number of ones that had done heinous murders, but never felt threatened

or manipulated. In the beginning walked in with prejudices, judgements,

and an open heart and soon found " there i go " . They had the same longings and

desire for love and understanding as any of us. Found them to be very

receptive to self reflection and examination. When a couple of layers where

peeled

back, so very often what was revealed was a " maternally wounded child " .

Wounded folks that had looked for Amma in all the wrong places with all the

wrong tools, leading to all the wrong decisions. My opinion the greatest

gift these folks could find would be for someone to give them the autobiography

that Swamiji wrote called Ammachi. That will most likely crack the shell,

there is power in that book to heal, as there is Supreme power in Amma.

Perhaps there are some out there, but i never met one that was experienced as

evil, but rather the most wounded folks one could ever imagine. I was visiting

with a Forensic Psychiatrist and he made the statement that every death

penalty person's problems he had examined

where rooted in the Mother/Child relationship, and whatever the force that

shattered them, it would take an equal or greater force to bring them back

together, and surely Amma is that greater force! Mother God in flesh! She is

greater than any shatter!

As far as visiting, if you are an adult that can set healthy boundaries,

then surely you can trust yourself and the Amma that is within and without to

guide. If one goes in with their finger pointing rather than an open heart,

they will not hurt you, nor will they open their hearts to you.

 

Aum Amritewaryai Namaha

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

My main concern is not the physical safety of Amma-visitors, though

you do raise a point. I know a woman that went from Public Works like

me, to being a prison guard in a high-security prison. She did tell

me she was pressed up against the wall during an uprising one-time.

But my understanding is that many uprising's aside from gang-related

stuff, is usually to improve the conditions at the prison, as in the

story she told me.

 

Manipulative (bad birth star types) can occur anywhere, and unless

you've encountered such compulsive-destructive types, you'd never

believe they exist, or know how dangerous they are.

 

My main concern is that through any interaction with strangers in

*extreme* conditions, proper training/qualification should be in

order. For example, if there was a decent Orientation process for

those wanting to visit, it could work with minimal risk. It's just

that those with so-called compassionate hearts can over-extend things

sometimes, if they're only going with a feeling or inner guidance,

expecting things to be alright. Like I said, poll those who've left

Amma, if you dare, and you'll get a clearer picture of things.

 

You may have guidelines for Circle of Love, but they should be kept

updated, if the program is moving towards personal visits, rather than

just letters.

 

Ammachi , temba spirits <tembaspirits wrote:

>

>

> thankyou tom for this insight dear brother.AMMA does say to use

discrimation along with compassion.thankyou so much.there are CIRCLE

OF LOVE INSIDE guidelines beloved brother.anyone who joins will get

them,however the first thing is to trust AMMA fearlessly and the

guidance will always come when it needs to. (snipped)

[Guest guest]

I'm NOT misleading, YOU are. I dare you to honestly converse with

those who've left, instead of misleading others. I double-dare you.

 

Co-dependency, for one thing is a real danger when personal

interactions are concerned. Who evaluates whether the interactions

are working, because all I hear is " feeling " . Maybe MA Center's

Board is warranted in not certifying COL just yet. I had thought

otherwise previously.

 

Temba, you think just because you had it rough and served time (for

which you were probably guilty) makes you an ideal Amma advocate and

devotee. And please don't give me any of that " I am nothing "

self-loathing crap, as that kind of attitude has what's kept so many

devotees from addressing their real issues. Self-depreciating

automatically evokes the pseudo compassionate ones, like some on this

list who are too eager to stand in a circle, patting each-other on the

back.

 

Go join Surya Das in Rajasic's Anonymous. You need help.

 

Ammachi , temba spirits <tembaspirits wrote:

>

>

> you are not listening tom and in your not paying attention you

are misleading.we have been going on succesful prison visits for the

last three years.the program started with prison visits.is that

clear.there are 'MANY " spiriitiual groups that go on prison visits

..this is nothing new.millions of people go to see their loved

ones.what training is there?you just don't understand.open your

heart,go on a visit yourself and then give your conclusion.you are

like the scientist who analilizes ,but does not experience, thus they

only " think " they know what they are talking about.

> spiriitual principles apply to everything in life,even going on

prison visits. and beloved tom,true compassion does not mean that you

make irresponsible choices.that would not be compassion at all.that

would be to make a incorrect choice.you need to give AMMA devotees

more credit,or at least the seva program that came out of HER

resolve.AMMAs grace will guide everyone of HER children if they decide

to go and they will have COLINSIDE guidelines to go buy as

well.EVERYTHING OUR AMMA touches will be guided by HER undying grace.

> that may be a type of faith that you may not understand,but

you dont have to .you keep on being true to you.in the meantime AMMAs

sevas will continue thriving with PERFECT

SUCCESS!AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AM\

MA,AMAM,AMMA

IS CIRCLE OF LOVE INSIDE..

>

> and do yourself a favor and dont wait around for something to go

wrong cause it wont happen! and even if it does, SHE will turn all

that into AMBROSIA!

>

>

[Guest guest]

And when something does go wrong in an Amma-resolved seva, then

certainly it was the individual's fault right?

 

Because the org is INFALLIBLE! Someone with a real problem,

certainly won't seek assistance from a poster child like you, because,

AMMA AMMA AMMA can't be wrong!

 

Ammachi , temba spirits <tembaspirits

wrote:(snipped)

 

you keep on being true to you.in the meantime AMMAs sevas will

continue thriving with PERFECT

SUCCESS!AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AMMA,AM\

MA,AMAM,AMMA

IS CIRCLE OF LOVE INSIDE..(snipped)