and you wonder why all those guys are after your hide???

[Guest guest]

Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull wrote:

>

> V, there's no way to say this in a nice way, but your entire posting

> is fluffy B.S. I won't waste my time tearing it to shreds, as it

> easy it would be to do.

>

> tom

 

Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!

 

Namaskarams!!

 

thanks tom for your kindly input...with friends like you, who needs

enemies?? oh i so appreciate your not bothering to tear my post to

shreds as you were so tempted to do, but didn't want to waste any of

your precious time on such a low piece of work....

 

humble pranams to you for your " kindness " ! i guess i should just stay

in my little misguided hole in the ground, and not bother this august

assembly with my silly naive comments. thanks for the hint!

 

you COULD simply have said that you disagree entirely with my ideas,

WITHOUT the not so subtle cutdowns!

 

but i guess you had a different agenda...namely to permanently shut my

silly comments up......and rudeness often works a lot better in that

department.

 

i guess i can understand now why you've been going through rounds

" one " and " two " ....

 

as ever,

 

visvanathan

[Guest guest]

Ammachi , " visvanathan " <kasi_visvanath

wrote:

>

> Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull@> wrote:

> >

> > V, there's no way to say this in a nice way, but your entire

posting

> > is fluffy B.S. I won't waste my time tearing it to shreds, as

it

> > easy it would be to do.

> >

> > tom

>

> Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!

>

> Namaskarams!!

>

> thanks tom for your kindly input...with friends like you, who needs

> enemies?? oh i so appreciate your not bothering to tear my post

to

> shreds as you were so tempted to do, but didn't want to waste any

of

> your precious time on such a low piece of work....

>

> humble pranams to you for your " kindness " ! i guess i should just

stay

> in my little misguided hole in the ground, and not bother this

august

> assembly with my silly naive comments. thanks for the hint!

>

> you COULD simply have said that you disagree entirely with my

ideas,

> WITHOUT the not so subtle cutdowns!

>

> but i guess you had a different agenda...namely to permanently

shut my

> silly comments up......and rudeness often works a lot better in

that

> department.

>

> i guess i can understand now why you've been going through rounds

> " one " and " two " ....

>

> as ever,

>

> visvanathan

 

Tom:

 

I agree with Vishwanathan here ... I am not sure why you were so

strong on him, I had thought his earlier post was perfectly fine and

relevant.

 

But anyway, people can disagree and that is cool.

 

Viswanathan,

Please do continue to post. You do a great service to us all. Do not

be discouraged by one strong comment.

 

Jai Ma!

[Guest guest]

If the hard knocks are so well-deserved, then why aid Tsunami victims,

etc.? Amma has clearly said that if it's someone's karma to suffer,

it's our karma to help them. This is what I do. I NEVER see

anyone's 'knocks' as being well-deserved unless it's instant karma in

which I know ALL the facts (rare). Otherwise, I know that both the

Good and Bad karma they experience, they were a completely different

person when they earned it, many lives ago, and therefore don't judge

them on it.

 

The part about surrendering more and getting Amma's Grace is clearly

refutable according to the principles of Karma. People get the

chance to spend tons of time with Amma because of MONEY and bumming

off others.

 

Please, I'll just shut up. You're ignorant because you want to keep

your beliefs, only leaving Experience to change it. And that

Experience will only come through the ups and downs of Karma. When

you're receiving Good Karma those experiences don't come.

 

I could've avoided plenty of problems in life, like many devotees do,

by " selling out " Dharma and letting Good Karma protect me from false

beliefs and bad actions. But selling out is worse in the long run,

and only Experience will teach that to certain people.

 

tom

 

Ammachi , " manoj_menon " <manoj_menon wrote:

>

>

> Tom:

>

> I agree with Vishwanathan here ... I am not sure why you were so

> strong on him, I had thought his earlier post was perfectly fine and

> relevant.

>

> But anyway, people can disagree and that is cool.

>

> Viswanathan,

> Please do continue to post. You do a great service to us all. Do not

> be discouraged by one strong comment.

>

> Jai Ma!

>

[Guest guest]

>If the hard knocks are so well-deserved, then why aid Tsunami victims,

>etc.?

 

Hold up. It's nobody's business to pass judgement on whether and how

hardships another faces are deserved. So many highly spiritual people

suffer severe buffets, and privileged clowns (naming no names, but

i'm sure we can all think of some stellar examples) ride high and

dry. Surface appearance is no measure, you are quite right about

that. But, and this is not directed at Tom only, why be harsh while

making the point?

 

Max

[Guest guest]

Tom:

 

I think you know better than what you put forth. 'one size fits all

people' is hardly what was posted earlier; read more carefully.

 

The hard knocks is between Amma and that warrior, something the

warrior is dealing with on his own (probably with Amma's help). He

needs our silent blessings, maybe even active involvement, if we ever

come to know of his problems which is rare.

 

The tsunami-example type victims are clearly distraught and need our

help and compassion. It is our dharma to help them if we can, the

least being to pray for them. Those are most likely not even disciples

or devotees!

 

so do you see how you mixed the idea that was posted for one type

against another type?

 

You equate Amma's grace with physical proximity. While that is not

entirely unreasonable, I am sure you definitely understand that Grace

can come in more unexpected ways and very frequently does.

 

Please don't talk about us/me being ignorant and/or not experiencing

bad karma. For one, you do not know the reality there. Nor the nature

of the transactions and/or payment that is being enacted through us.

 

 

Ultimately, we need to be inspired by the sadhana of others and

improve our own. That is all that matters.

 

If reading posts like these inspire you to medidate on the nature of

life and sadhana, it is a profitable investment of time even if it has

heckled you a bit in the short-term.

 

Jai Ma!

 

 

Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull wrote:

>

> If the hard knocks are so well-deserved, then why aid Tsunami victims,

> etc.? Amma has clearly said that if it's someone's karma to suffer,

> it's our karma to help them. This is what I do. I NEVER see

> anyone's 'knocks' as being well-deserved unless it's instant karma in

> which I know ALL the facts (rare). Otherwise, I know that both the

> Good and Bad karma they experience, they were a completely different

> person when they earned it, many lives ago, and therefore don't judge

> them on it.

>

> The part about surrendering more and getting Amma's Grace is clearly

> refutable according to the principles of Karma. People get the

> chance to spend tons of time with Amma because of MONEY and bumming

> off others.

>

> Please, I'll just shut up. You're ignorant because you want to keep

> your beliefs, only leaving Experience to change it. And that

> Experience will only come through the ups and downs of Karma. When

> you're receiving Good Karma those experiences don't come.

>

> I could've avoided plenty of problems in life, like many devotees do,

> by " selling out " Dharma and letting Good Karma protect me from false

> beliefs and bad actions. But selling out is worse in the long run,

> and only Experience will teach that to certain people.

>

> tom

>

> Ammachi , " manoj_menon " <manoj_menon@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Tom:

> >

> > I agree with Vishwanathan here ... I am not sure why you were so

> > strong on him, I had thought his earlier post was perfectly fine and

> > relevant.

> >

> > But anyway, people can disagree and that is cool.

> >

> > Viswanathan,

> > Please do continue to post. You do a great service to us all. Do not

> > be discouraged by one strong comment.

> >

> > Jai Ma!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

There's a time and place for " shock and awe " . When things are being

said that are so off-base with any kind of spirituality (ie, invoking

pride-increasing beliefs), then merely giving another opinion is of no

benefit. V's posting, contained too much stuff to be singled out, and

it's overall effect increases Amma-devotee-elitism.

 

I did not attack V personally as others have me and he did in

response. Remember that. The idea V put forth that the knocks are

well-deserved is a terrible mind-set, as is thinking that those who

get to spend more time with Amma are more surrendered or even that

those who get more knocks are more surrendered.

 

tom

 

 

Ammachi , Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote:

>

> >If the hard knocks are so well-deserved, then why aid Tsunami victims,

> >etc.?

>

> Hold up. It's nobody's business to pass judgement on whether and how

> hardships another faces are deserved. So many highly spiritual people

> suffer severe buffets, and privileged clowns (naming no names, but

> i'm sure we can all think of some stellar examples) ride high and

> dry. Surface appearance is no measure, you are quite right about

> that. But, and this is not directed at Tom only, why be harsh while

> making the point?

>

> Max