Guest guest Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Banter? Gossip? hardly. It was a heartfelt conversation about something which is very on-topic for any saadhak. For me this was a conversation about how Amma works in my life, and applying insights from her writings and talks that have changed my perspective on life. She has said much around how we should confront difficulties with faith, and about the churning we undergo, which she sometimes speaks of as something the Guru accelerates: " The present pain you are experiencing is meant to remove all pain... the inner wounds... are deep, age-old wounds... The effect of real churning should reach the bottom-most part of the mind... " and " Purification is heating up the mind in order to remove impurities, and this process inevitably involves pain. Spiritual pain uplifts you to the abode of everlasting bliss and peace. The seeker's sufferings and problems are actually speeding up his process of purification. " As previously said, i don't pretend to know what she is doing and certainly nothing about " what her opinions are " , only her teachings are what are referred to here. Sorry you don't agree. Please don't feel agitated about it. M >A lot on this tread has been banter, and I have felt agitated about >it, I guess because I am attached to what my opinions are, such as >that the content of this Amma Web Group should be more Elevated. So >seeing So Many emails on these topics has been disturbing to me >because it really doesn't elevate our consciousness very much or focus >us on god, or something beyond ourselves really. Sorry, but that's my >judgment. > >I do think members should check ourselves at the Group door, as it were. > >I'm pretty clear that this is probably not really place to debate >about personal conceptions of what Amma's opinions are, or what her >methods are or may be. In fact it seems to me that it's Totally >Arrogant of any of us to even presume to have a clue as to what is >motivating Amma-- or going on inside anyone, really, for that matter. > >Presumptuous as that may be, it's human nature to do so, I know that. >But all the same, it's really a whole other level of arrogance to >gossip--which is essentially what's going on here--about what Amma >believes, how she operates, what her opinions are. > >As some of the more grounded devotees are aware, many of these topics >are answered by Amma herself, in her writings and talks. For the most >part, these topics of curiosity are arising in and reflecting more the >minds and egos of those who are 'debating' them--which has less to do >about Amma, and more to do about the individual posters. > >How are people's personal spiritual practises going? >What issues are coming up for people? >How are you seeing Amma working in your life, or God? > >OM Amrtesvaryai Namah! > >Hanuman Das -- Max Dashu Suppressed Histories Archives http://www.suppressedhistories.net New: Women's Power DVD http://www.suppressedhistories.net/womenspowerdvd.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Thank you Max, that was well said. I have been pushed beyond my threshold of pain since meeting Amma, but it has brought me closer and closer to grace. May we all learn to see suffering and hardship as God's/Guru's grace, Jai Ma Ammachi , Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote: > > Banter? Gossip? hardly. It was a heartfelt conversation about > something which is very on-topic for any saadhak. > > For me this was a conversation about how Amma works in my life, and > applying insights from her writings and talks that have changed my > perspective on life. She has said much around how we should confront > difficulties with faith, and about the churning we undergo, which she > sometimes speaks of as something the Guru accelerates: > > " The present pain you are experiencing is meant to remove all pain... > the inner wounds... are deep, age-old wounds... The effect of real > churning should reach the bottom-most part of the mind... " > > and > > " Purification is heating up the mind in order to remove impurities, > and this process inevitably involves pain. Spiritual pain uplifts you > to the abode of everlasting bliss and peace. The seeker's sufferings > and problems are actually speeding up his process of purification. " > > As previously said, i don't pretend to know what she is doing and > certainly nothing about " what her opinions are " , only her teachings > are what are referred to here. > > Sorry you don't agree. Please don't feel agitated about it. > > M > > >A lot on this tread has been banter, and I have felt agitated about > >it, I guess because I am attached to what my opinions are, such as > >that the content of this Amma Web Group should be more Elevated. So > >seeing So Many emails on these topics has been disturbing to me > >because it really doesn't elevate our consciousness very much or focus > >us on god, or something beyond ourselves really. Sorry, but that's my > >judgment. > > > >I do think members should check ourselves at the Group door, as it were. > > > >I'm pretty clear that this is probably not really place to debate > >about personal conceptions of what Amma's opinions are, or what her > >methods are or may be. In fact it seems to me that it's Totally > >Arrogant of any of us to even presume to have a clue as to what is > >motivating Amma-- or going on inside anyone, really, for that matter. > > > >Presumptuous as that may be, it's human nature to do so, I know that. > >But all the same, it's really a whole other level of arrogance to > >gossip--which is essentially what's going on here--about what Amma > >believes, how she operates, what her opinions are. > > > >As some of the more grounded devotees are aware, many of these topics > >are answered by Amma herself, in her writings and talks. For the most > >part, these topics of curiosity are arising in and reflecting more the > >minds and egos of those who are 'debating' them--which has less to do > >about Amma, and more to do about the individual posters. > > > >How are people's personal spiritual practises going? > >What issues are coming up for people? > >How are you seeing Amma working in your life, or God? > > > >OM Amrtesvaryai Namah! > > > >Hanuman Das > > -- > Max Dashu > Suppressed Histories Archives > http://www.suppressedhistories.net > > New: Women's Power DVD > http://www.suppressedhistories.net/womenspowerdvd.html > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 It's been a nice civil exchange compared to some in the past, quite flowing, which is a good sign. tom Ammachi , Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote: > > Banter? Gossip? hardly. It was a heartfelt conversation about > something which is very on-topic for any saadhak. (snipped) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 This is my response to Hanuman Das' request for people to share what has been going on in our spiritual practice, and how Amma's message of love and compassion has been active in our lives. I wondered about Hanuman Das' agitation, and considered it to be a manifestation of what, in my application of the principles of nonviolence, I would call " the cobra. " I have been utilizing Gandhi's response to Paramahansa Yogananda in the following exchange: " Mahatmaji … please tell me your definition of ahimsa. " " The avoidance of harm to any living creature in thought or deed. " " Beautiful ideal! But the world will always ask: May one not kill a cobra to protect a child, or one's self? " " I could not kill a cobra without violating two of my vows: fearlessness, and non-killing. I would rather try inwardly to calm the snake by vibrations of love. I cannot possibly lower my standards to suit my circumstances. " With his amazing candor, Gandhi added, " I must confess that I could not carry on this conversation were I faced by a cobra! " In India, people do face the physical threat of poisonous snakes, but in my daily life, I see the cobra metaphorically as the agitation I feel inside in any circumstances I find threatening. And I look to what way I can calm the cobra with vibrations of love. When I read Max' reply to my post, I felt my own agitation. I used a technique I learned in Marshall Rosenberg's Nonviolent Communication to ask Max whether, upon reading what I wrote, she had felt stimulated into protecting Amma. I appreciated Max' reply, in which she shared her process and what is helpful to her in it. So, her initial disagreement did not deny my experience after all; I no longer felt agitation. Hanuman Das, I saw your feeling of agitation as a manifestation of the cobra, of inner conflict arising in you at our exchange. My interpretation of your post was that your discomfort with that inner conflict caused you to want to end the discourse - to kill the cobra - and so you tried to end your discomfort by saying Amma must certainly not approve of such discourse, and you called it gossip and banter and declared the discourse ended. I realize this is concentrated information. I have thought lately, after reading an article in an old Yoga Journal I saw the other day, that my practice as described above is jnana yoga. I am wanting to share this practice as karma yoga. Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull wrote: > > It's been a nice civil exchange compared to some in the past, quite > flowing, which is a good sign. > > tom > > Ammachi , Max Dashu <maxdashu@> wrote: > > > > Banter? Gossip? hardly. It was a heartfelt conversation about > > something which is very on-topic for any saadhak. (snipped) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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