Puja at Sai Altar video to come down tomorrow night

[Guest guest]

To honor the request about not having other guru's associated in the

vids, I'll be taking down the video of Amma arriving at the Sai Baba

satsang, and replacing it with one edited to eliminate his photo.

And renaming everything to eliminate reference to the satsang.

 

This is only until things are clarified, but I wanted to let folks

know in case they wanted to keep the original. It's still very

possible that all the videos will be taken down, and that no DVD will

be available to devotees.

 

The puja is actually to Kali. To the best of my knowledge, Amma

visited there at the request of Tom Shroyer, and was the one asked

what puja was desired.

 

tom

[Guest guest]

Re: Puja at Sai Altar video to come down tomorrow night

 

ammachi_free_speech_zone , " tom " <tomgull

wrote:

>

> To honor the request about not having other guru's associated in the

> vids, I'll be taking down the video of Amma arriving at the Sai Baba

> satsang, and replacing it with one edited to eliminate his photo.

> And renaming everything to eliminate reference to the satsang.

>

>

OM Amrtesvaryai Namah!!

 

Namaskarams Tom

 

sorry to hear, Tom, that you are removing and editing the old videos

of Amma visiting the Sai satsang in D.C. area....especially at the

request of the " ashram " authorities...i cannot for the life of me see

what their point is...are they ashamed of Amma's previous activities,

in that She was willing to go to that devotee's house, even though it

was a Sai house? are we supposed to take a message from this that we

can not be friends with devotees of other GURUS?? WHAT are they trying

to tell us with this censorship of Amma's past activities...i think

this ranks up there with the " secrecy " around the IAM course...and i

do not support such " cultish " behaviours at all!

 

editing Sai's picture out of the video!!! really that is going too far

in my books, even though i have no interest in Sai Baba myself...i

would think that any devotees of his would be totally insulted by this

behaviour, and with good reason....what makes them think that anyone

is going to be distracted by these Sai Photos anyways???? i noticed

the picture, but i was NOT paying attention to that photo...i was

paying attention to AMMA!! as i assume most everyone else was.

 

and even worse to remove all traces of Amma in DEVI BHAVA??????!!!!! i

really can't get what they'r up to with that one?????what is WRONG

with film footage of Amma in Devi BHava on Youtube??? i love to see

Amma in Devi Bhava, whether on film or for real (live in person)...are

they ashamed of Amma appearing in Devi Bhava? are they afraid that it

will drive the devotees away??? if so, what are the devotees going to

say when all such footage and references to it have been removed and

then they come to the Devi Bhava Program....only to be shocked and

dismayed by the actual thing, with NO preparation? is that supposed to

be somehow a better approach????? i REALLY have trouble with all this

control and censorship of Amma's " image " ...are we turning into the

Christian churches, of which, each has ONLY ONE authorised version of

Christ and His Mother? (No offense to christians intended...but the

churches DO control ever so much about how Jesus is portrayed and what

he said....)

 

it sounds like the image manipulators are not even waiting until Amma

has entered into Mahasamadhi, before they rearrange Her image to suit

themselves...just like was done with Sri Ramakrsna by Vivekananda and

the monks...who turned a supremely great Bhakta, an all out LOVER of

Mother Kali, into a desiccated, dried out Jnani...removing as much of

His " juice " as possible..until He more closely resembled the image of

Him that THEY thought suitable for mass consumption. i would have

hoped that the upper level Amma devotees would have at least waited

until SHE entered into Mahasamadhi before doctoring Her image so

obviously much...

 

i just can't see that this is Amma's directive at all...i think it

MUST be from the " badge " holders that you so often refer to...i am

annoyed and offended that they should be so actively interfering in

your postings of those videos, since they were made BEFORE all the

copyright by the MA Center stuff started happening...there WAS NO MA

Center at that time...so how can they think that they have the right

to control the images from that time, which were NOT shot by an AMMA

devotee (at the time), and thus not under the auspices of the Official

MA Center copyright lawyers...so WHAT if a picture or two of an

" unauthorised " GURU might appear on the screen...after all it was HIS

satsang that AMMA was VISITING as a GUEST...

 

again i feel that this is disgusting and offensive behaviour by the

authorities requesting such censorship and removal of " embarrassing "

film footage, and i wouldn't listen to them for a second.

 

it reminded me on a worldly level of some crazy events going on here

in B.C. over the Olympic images.....the Vancouver Olympic Committee

had stated that no one may use the olympic name or images except

through their licensing...(in other words...one has to BUY the right

to use such images)...they went to the extent of SUEING a local

restaurant, which has the Olympic Image of the five rings and the

name Olympic displayed on the sign...notwithstanding the fact that

this restaurant has been there for many many years, LONG BEFORE the

Vancouver Olympic committee was even a gleam in anyone's eye, long

before Vancouver was named to be the Olympic city for 2010....and now

they are trying to edit out references PREVIOUS to their own

existence...over which they should have NO control...the M.A.

authorities really remind me of this silly kind of nitpicking...it's

extremely unfortunate that they should feel that they have the right

to do this....did you consult a lawyer to see if they really DO have

the right to tell you what to do with those pre copyrighted images???

 

and too, just like Aikya i am NOT impressed with all the secrecy

around IAM considering it's not really all that complicated, and not

so different from several other techniques promoted by other GURUS,

such as Yogananda...(i'm not impressed with the secrecy of the SRF

either!)

 

i'm also not impressed with the fact that No One on this list has

seen fit to protest this kind of censorship of the old Amma

videos....what are we??? a flock of Sheep?.......BAHHHH BAHHHHH

BAHHHH.....Humbug!

 

but of course it's up to you....

 

in Amma's Love,

and in Her Service,

as ever,

somewhat disgusted

with some of Her censorious devotees,

your own Self,

 

visvanathan

 

Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!

[Guest guest]

Dear V,

 

The removal of the 1st vid that showed Sai was just a " preliminary "

courtesy, not any official request. Apparently, there's a committee

for such things.

 

At this point, I'm not even sure if the part about " Amma being

unhappy " about the vids being on the net, was indeed in reference to

the ones I uploaded, or an older incident which might be used as a

shield in this case. I still haven't heard back.

 

The Devi Bhava is something that will come to light eventually,

resulting in either public exposure by some Anti-Amma group or with

the ending of Devi Bhava like in India. Though it seems to be quite

popular in the West. I think it makes her unique to famous guru's of

the past.

 

Believe me, the fact that the footage was taken with permission years

ago, and even distributed freely for years, has already been made to

the ashram. Still, they invoke " publishing " rights, which given the

above mentioned circumstances, may not hold up in court.

 

The removing of Devi pics from the net and videos that they sell is

something that has come directly from Amma. To my understanding,

Amma only mentioned that people wouldn't understand, not that it would

affect charitable works and fundraising (disciples' rationale).

Ironically, the Devi Bhava footage was " complete " enough to show

people what actually goes on, from Amma worshipping the peetam and

crown, and the whole drama. And the footage is ancient enough to not

be so much of a concern, I'd think.

 

I've leveraged the ashram getting a copy on DVD with a DVD being

available to devotees. We're talking about 6 programs over about 7.5

hours they stand to lose. But, I'm not willing to invest time and

money on a DVD project without it being available to any and all. I

would also need to contact one of my sources to get the original DB

tape I copied to see if I can get it clearer. I'm also trying out

some trial versions of video software, one having a filter to

stabilize shaking.

 

I've spoken with Linden and he'd rather keep the rights to his footage

than simply sign it over, even if it means taking it down from YT.

One reason is that his family is in the footage, but I explained it as

sort of his life's work for so many years. He was agreeable about

leveraging the DVD project. I'm quite detached about it all, but

know that if I take the 60 or so vids down, it'd be a while before I'd

make the time to re-upload them, should things change.

 

By the way, YT expands the screen the vids play on, so they're a tiny

bit clearer if you press that little button to reduce it (next to the

full-screen button.)

 

I've asked for Amma to be specifically asked about the vids, since

it'll affect devotees across the world. I haven't heard back yet,

and I'll keep up the ones that are there now until I hear further.

 

I too am surprised at the complacency of devotees on this issue, but

most I've been in contact with, aside from a few fellow-irate

devotees, place this in the category of " leela " . But Linden's

declaration that he's never been a devotee of Amma and my detachment

to the vids, would mean it's a leela for the badge-holders, not us.

 

tom

 

 

Ammachi , " visvanathan " <kasi_visvanath wrote:

 

> OM Amrtesvaryai Namah!!

>

> Namaskarams Tom

>

> sorry to hear, Tom, that you are removing and editing the old videos

> of Amma visiting the Sai satsang in D.C. area....especially at the

> request of the " ashram " authorities...(snipped)

[Guest guest]

Very Good points here , this sound truly strange , why removing

pictures ? Who really cares if Amma went to the house of someone Who

was Sai Devotee this makes no sense . Sri Karunamai had a Homa in a

backyard of Sai Devotee so Who cares . This is really immature

indeed. j.

>

> Re: Puja at Sai Altar video to come down tomorrow night

>

> ammachi_free_speech_zone , " tom " <tomgull@>

> wrote:

> >

> > To honor the request about not having other guru's associated in the

> > vids, I'll be taking down the video of Amma arriving at the Sai Baba

> > satsang, and replacing it with one edited to eliminate his photo.

> > And renaming everything to eliminate reference to the satsang.

> >

> >

> OM Amrtesvaryai Namah!!

>

> Namaskarams Tom

>

> sorry to hear, Tom, that you are removing and editing the old videos

> of Amma visiting the Sai satsang in D.C. area....especially at the

> request of the " ashram " authorities...i cannot for the life of me see

> what their point is...are they ashamed of Amma's previous activities,

> in that She was willing to go to that devotee's house, even though it

> was a Sai house? are we supposed to take a message from this that we

> can not be friends with devotees of other GURUS?? WHAT are they trying

> to tell us with this censorship of Amma's past activities...i think

> this ranks up there with the " secrecy " around the IAM course...and i

> do not support such " cultish " behaviours at all!

>

> editing Sai's picture out of the video!!! really that is going too far

> in my books, even though i have no interest in Sai Baba myself...i

> would think that any devotees of his would be totally insulted by this

> behaviour, and with good reason....what makes them think that anyone

> is going to be distracted by these Sai Photos anyways???? i noticed

> the picture, but i was NOT paying attention to that photo...i was

> paying attention to AMMA!! as i assume most everyone else was.

>

> and even worse to remove all traces of Amma in DEVI BHAVA??????!!!!! i

> really can't get what they'r up to with that one?????what is WRONG

> with film footage of Amma in Devi BHava on Youtube??? i love to see

> Amma in Devi Bhava, whether on film or for real (live in person)...are

> they ashamed of Amma appearing in Devi Bhava? are they afraid that it

> will drive the devotees away??? if so, what are the devotees going to

> say when all such footage and references to it have been removed and

> then they come to the Devi Bhava Program....only to be shocked and

> dismayed by the actual thing, with NO preparation? is that supposed to

> be somehow a better approach????? i REALLY have trouble with all this

> control and censorship of Amma's " image " ...are we turning into the

> Christian churches, of which, each has ONLY ONE authorised version of

> Christ and His Mother? (No offense to christians intended...but the

> churches DO control ever so much about how Jesus is portrayed and what

> he said....)

>

> it sounds like the image manipulators are not even waiting until Amma

> has entered into Mahasamadhi, before they rearrange Her image to suit

> themselves...just like was done with Sri Ramakrsna by Vivekananda and

> the monks...who turned a supremely great Bhakta, an all out LOVER of

> Mother Kali, into a desiccated, dried out Jnani...removing as much of

> His " juice " as possible..until He more closely resembled the image of

> Him that THEY thought suitable for mass consumption. i would have

> hoped that the upper level Amma devotees would have at least waited

> until SHE entered into Mahasamadhi before doctoring Her image so

> obviously much...

>

> i just can't see that this is Amma's directive at all...i think it

> MUST be from the " badge " holders that you so often refer to...i am

> annoyed and offended that they should be so actively interfering in

> your postings of those videos, since they were made BEFORE all the

> copyright by the MA Center stuff started happening...there WAS NO MA

> Center at that time...so how can they think that they have the right

> to control the images from that time, which were NOT shot by an AMMA

> devotee (at the time), and thus not under the auspices of the Official

> MA Center copyright lawyers...so WHAT if a picture or two of an

> " unauthorised " GURU might appear on the screen...after all it was HIS

> satsang that AMMA was VISITING as a GUEST...

>

> again i feel that this is disgusting and offensive behaviour by the

> authorities requesting such censorship and removal of " embarrassing "

> film footage, and i wouldn't listen to them for a second.

>

> it reminded me on a worldly level of some crazy events going on here

> in B.C. over the Olympic images.....the Vancouver Olympic Committee

> had stated that no one may use the olympic name or images except

> through their licensing...(in other words...one has to BUY the right

> to use such images)...they went to the extent of SUEING a local

> restaurant, which has the Olympic Image of the five rings and the

> name Olympic displayed on the sign...notwithstanding the fact that

> this restaurant has been there for many many years, LONG BEFORE the

> Vancouver Olympic committee was even a gleam in anyone's eye, long

> before Vancouver was named to be the Olympic city for 2010....and now

> they are trying to edit out references PREVIOUS to their own

> existence...over which they should have NO control...the M.A.

> authorities really remind me of this silly kind of nitpicking...it's

> extremely unfortunate that they should feel that they have the right

> to do this....did you consult a lawyer to see if they really DO have

> the right to tell you what to do with those pre copyrighted images???

>

> and too, just like Aikya i am NOT impressed with all the secrecy

> around IAM considering it's not really all that complicated, and not

> so different from several other techniques promoted by other GURUS,

> such as Yogananda...(i'm not impressed with the secrecy of the SRF

> either!)

>

> i'm also not impressed with the fact that No One on this list has

> seen fit to protest this kind of censorship of the old Amma

> videos....what are we??? a flock of Sheep?.......BAHHHH BAHHHHH

> BAHHHH.....Humbug!

>

> but of course it's up to you....

>

> in Amma's Love,

> and in Her Service,

> as ever,

> somewhat disgusted

> with some of Her censorious devotees,

> your own Self,

>

> visvanathan

>

> Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!

>

[Guest guest]

Why this whole fuss about the picture of Sai Baba? Sai baba is a great Avatar in

our midst and Amma too agrees to this. I dont think we need to deride anyone as

we have to see God in all beings.

I hope better sense prevails in future.

 

Suresh

 

 

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 joannapollner wrote :

>Very Good points here , this sound truly strange , why removing

>pictures ? Who really cares if Amma went to the house of someone Who

>was Sai Devotee this makes no sense . Sri Karunamai had a Homa in a

>backyard of Sai Devotee so Who cares . This is really immature

>indeed. j.

> >

> > Re: Puja at Sai Altar video to come down tomorrow night

> >

> > ammachi_free_speech_zone , " tom " <tomgull@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > To honor the request about not having other guru's associated in the

> > > vids, I'll be taking down the video of Amma arriving at the Sai Baba

> > > satsang, and replacing it with one edited to eliminate his photo.

> > > And renaming everything to eliminate reference to the satsang.

> > >

> > >

> > OM Amrtesvaryai Namah!!

> >

> > Namaskarams Tom

> >

> > sorry to hear, Tom, that you are removing and editing the old videos

> > of Amma visiting the Sai satsang in D.C. area....especially at the

> > request of the " ashram " authorities...i cannot for the life of me see

> > what their point is...are they ashamed of Amma's previous activities,

> > in that She was willing to go to that devotee's house, even though it

> > was a Sai house? are we supposed to take a message from this that we

> > can not be friends with devotees of other GURUS?? WHAT are they trying

> > to tell us with this censorship of Amma's past activities...i think

> > this ranks up there with the " secrecy " around the IAM course...and i

> > do not support such " cultish " behaviours at all!

> >

> > editing Sai's picture out of the video!!! really that is going too far

> > in my books, even though i have no interest in Sai Baba myself...i

> > would think that any devotees of his would be totally insulted by this

> > behaviour, and with good reason....what makes them think that anyone

> > is going to be distracted by these Sai Photos anyways???? i noticed

> > the picture, but i was NOT paying attention to that photo...i was

> > paying attention to AMMA!! as i assume most everyone else was.

> >

> > and even worse to remove all traces of Amma in DEVI BHAVA??????!!!!! i

> > really can't get what they'r up to with that one?????what is WRONG

> > with film footage of Amma in Devi BHava on Youtube??? i love to see

> > Amma in Devi Bhava, whether on film or for real (live in person)...are

> > they ashamed of Amma appearing in Devi Bhava? are they afraid that it

> > will drive the devotees away??? if so, what are the devotees going to

> > say when all such footage and references to it have been removed and

> > then they come to the Devi Bhava Program....only to be shocked and

> > dismayed by the actual thing, with NO preparation? is that supposed to

> > be somehow a better approach????? i REALLY have trouble with all this

> > control and censorship of Amma's " image " ...are we turning into the

> > Christian churches, of which, each has ONLY ONE authorised version of

> > Christ and His Mother? (No offense to christians intended...but the

> > churches DO control ever so much about how Jesus is portrayed and what

> > he said....)

> >

> > it sounds like the image manipulators are not even waiting until Amma

> > has entered into Mahasamadhi, before they rearrange Her image to suit

> > themselves...just like was done with Sri Ramakrsna by Vivekananda and

> > the monks...who turned a supremely great Bhakta, an all out LOVER of

> > Mother Kali, into a desiccated, dried out Jnani...removing as much of

> > His " juice " as possible..until He more closely resembled the image of

> > Him that THEY thought suitable for mass consumption. i would have

> > hoped that the upper level Amma devotees would have at least waited

> > until SHE entered into Mahasamadhi before doctoring Her image so

> > obviously much...

> >

> > i just can't see that this is Amma's directive at all...i think it

> > MUST be from the " badge " holders that you so often refer to...i am

> > annoyed and offended that they should be so actively interfering in

> > your postings of those videos, since they were made BEFORE all the

> > copyright by the MA Center stuff started happening...there WAS NO MA

> > Center at that time...so how can they think that they have the right

> > to control the images from that time, which were NOT shot by an AMMA

> > devotee (at the time), and thus not under the auspices of the Official

> > MA Center copyright lawyers...so WHAT if a picture or two of an

> > " unauthorised " GURU might appear on the screen...after all it was HIS

> > satsang that AMMA was VISITING as a GUEST...

> >

> > again i feel that this is disgusting and offensive behaviour by the

> > authorities requesting such censorship and removal of " embarrassing "

> > film footage, and i wouldn't listen to them for a second.

> >

> > it reminded me on a worldly level of some crazy events going on here

> > in B.C. over the Olympic images.....the Vancouver Olympic Committee

> > had stated that no one may use the olympic name or images except

> > through their licensing...(in other words...one has to BUY the right

> > to use such images)...they went to the extent of SUEING a local

> > restaurant, which has the Olympic Image of the five rings and the

> > name Olympic displayed on the sign...notwithstanding the fact that

> > this restaurant has been there for many many years, LONG BEFORE the

> > Vancouver Olympic committee was even a gleam in anyone's eye, long

> > before Vancouver was named to be the Olympic city for 2010....and now

> > they are trying to edit out references PREVIOUS to their own

> > existence...over which they should have NO control...the M.A.

> > authorities really remind me of this silly kind of nitpicking...it's

> > extremely unfortunate that they should feel that they have the right

> > to do this....did you consult a lawyer to see if they really DO have

> > the right to tell you what to do with those pre copyrighted images???

> >

> > and too, just like Aikya i am NOT impressed with all the secrecy

> > around IAM considering it's not really all that complicated, and not

> > so different from several other techniques promoted by other GURUS,

> > such as Yogananda...(i'm not impressed with the secrecy of the SRF

> > either!)

> >

> > i'm also not impressed with the fact that No One on this list has

> > seen fit to protest this kind of censorship of the old Amma

> > videos....what are we??? a flock of Sheep?.......BAHHHH BAHHHHH

> > BAHHHH.....Humbug!

> >

> > but of course it's up to you....

> >

> > in Amma's Love,

> > and in Her Service,

> > as ever,

> > somewhat disgusted

> > with some of Her censorious devotees,

> > your own Self,

> >

> > visvanathan

> >

> > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!

> >

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

With all due respect, I cannot really see how the IAM course

a " secret. " Anyone, anywhere can learn for free anytime anywhere a

course is offered.

 

The idea is to have teachers that are trained on how to teach the IAM

course is important. I am not sure but perhaps that is what you are

referring to? However, I really don't know. Should that be the case,

most of us know the game " telephone " where one person tells another

person a story then by the time you are at the end, the whole story

is completely changed. In the same way, having teachers who keep the

IAM course pure in its form, with proper use and teaching is

imperative to fufill Amma's desire for her children. It's easy for

those who practice without refreshers to improperly perform various

aspects. This is why refresher courses are also helpful.

 

Ammachi , " visvanathan " <kasi_visvanath

wrote:

>

> Re: Puja at Sai Altar video to come down tomorrow night

>

> ammachi_free_speech_zone , " tom " <tomgull@>

> wrote:

> >

> > To honor the request about not having other guru's associated in

the

> > vids, I'll be taking down the video of Amma arriving at the Sai

Baba

> > satsang, and replacing it with one edited to eliminate his photo.

> > And renaming everything to eliminate reference to the satsang.

> >

> >

> OM Amrtesvaryai Namah!!

>

WHAT are they trying

> to tell us with this censorship of Amma's past activities...i think

> this ranks up there with the " secrecy " around the IAM course...and i

> do not support such " cultish " behaviours at all!

>

[Guest guest]

Ammachi [Ammachi ] On Behalf Of

Suru

Tuesday, November 27, 2007 5:00 PM

Ammachi

Cc: joannapollner

Re: Re: Puja at Sai Altar video to come down tomorrow

night

 

 

 

Why this whole fuss about the picture of Sai Baba? Sai baba is a great

Avatar in our midst and Amma too agrees to this.

 

Sai Baba is a pedophile and I don’t think Amma has said much about him since

this came to light, other than an oblique reference in saying that the

behavior of some gurus sullies the reputation of all of them in some

people’s minds.

 

I dont think we need to deride anyone as we have to see God in all beings.

 

Calling a spade a spade isn’t necessarily deriding them.

 

 

 

 

Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.9/1155 - Release 11/27/2007

8:30 PM

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

beloved family,please be so kind to allow temba to share something with you .our

beloved AMMA says that when we see the negative in others ,it is our own minds

that become impure.you are all beautiful reflections of AMMA.lets be courageous

enough to speak good ,to do good and to see good.

 

there are so many wonderful things that are happening that are good that we can

discuss.that will help our own hearts and minds to expand.is that not what we

all want?we say we are AMMA devotees.what does that really mean.the word devotee

comes from DEVOTION.is that devotion to HER body ,or the principles of

LOVE,COMMPASSION,UNDERSTANDING,ETC.that SHE embody's.why not place our attention

there,since we all consider ourselves DEVOTEES.analizing SAI BABA'S,behavior

will not help us grow.it is not his mind that needs to be purified it is

MINE,and if you are honest with yourself ,you will declare the same thing.

 

temba has so many things to work on within himself and that is the only thing

that he can prove to anyone of you.it is my mind that needs purification.it is

my heart that needs to expand in HER LOVE.to look at life this way takes

awareness and courage and this happens alone through HER GRACE.you are all

beautiful in the eyes of AMMA.and this is what this heart longs to see and

experience.

 

temba prays that what he has shared has served someone effectively and that AMMA

is pleased.YOU ALL ARE REFLECTIONS,PROJECTIONS AND EXPRESSIONS OF AMMAs LOVE..

 

 

Ammachi: pampadi: Wed, 28 Nov 2007

19:03:27 +0000Re: RE: RE: Re: Puja at Sai Altar video to come

down tomorrow night

 

 

 

 

You dont have any personal experience right? There are many individuals out

there who speak up for personal gains and cheap publicity.On Wed, 28 Nov 2007

Rick Archer wrote :> Ammachi

[Ammachi ] On Behalf Of>Suru>Wednesday, November 28,

2007 10:14 AM>Ammachi >Cc: Rick Archer>Re: RE:

Re: Puja at Sai Altar video to come down tomorrow>night>>>>>Did u have

any personal experience with him before you call him a pedophile?>Please dont

cater to cheap magazines and hearsays and come to conclusions.>Have personal

experience before talking.>>Two personal friends were sexually involved with

him.>>>>Checked by AVG Free

Edition.>Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.9/1155 - Release Date:

11/27/2007>8:30 PM>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]>