Guest guest Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 Om Amriteswaryai Namah, Forgive my partial rendering of this thought-provoking exchange. But I wanted to share a bit of an experience from Mother's visit to San Ramon. Last night, between the satsang and bhajans, Amma took a question from Her children. A daughter asked for explanation of, or insight into, an anecdote she had recently heard about Ramakrishna. According to the account she had read, once Sri Ramakrishna had told a devotee to take a cockroach outside and kill it. The devotee could not, he just let it go or something, and when he came back to the Guru, He scolded the disciple and said " You should have killed the cockroach. " The daughter wondered if Amma could help explain that story to us. Amma replied that she did not think a Mahatma would give such instructions. She couldn't believe it happened that way. (She asked the daughter where she had read it, and repeated several times Her sense that it seemed unlikely that a Mahatma would tell a disciple to injure a harmless creature.) IF it did happen like that, perhaps it was a test of the disciple's maturity. That Ramakrishna might have been testing his disciple, to see if he would obey unquestioningly. (And then came a lovely bit of insight about the way a chela matures, and that we should use our discriminative powers to attend to the meaning and significance behind the Guru's words / instructions / actions.) Mother also made a funny joke about how She understands that many of her western children are afraid of cockroaches! But above all, from this daughter's perspective, Amma emphasized that it was very difficult to answer such questions, because of the way spiritual wisdom is diluted as stories are told over and over and over again. " In today's world people will hear one thing and say it another way and so on... " Each person adds a little water, so to speak, and then it is like a game of whisper-down-the-alley or telephone, and the truth becomes distorted or diluted and things are lost. Devotees relate their interpretation of a story according to their own understanding and maturity. For example, once the world was suffering with drought and war and illness and such things. The humans, asuras, and devas went to Father Brahma, the Creator, to ask for his help. Lord Brahma was in deep meditation, and simply uttered one syllable in response to his children's pleas: " DA. " The humans heard that single syllable DA and thought, " He must mean [a sanskrit word sounded like danam] charity " or to give away and share with others. Because humans were not sharing with each other. The demons heard that single syllable DA and thought it meant " DAYA, " or kindness. Because their nature was cruelty and they " needed " to be more kind. And the devas, who were indulgers and hedonists, heard that single syllable DA and thought it must mean [not sure of the word] to practice restraint. Because they needed to control their sense organs. The implication being that each one interprets it differently according to his own desires and according to his own maturity. So we must be attentive to understanding the true signficance of an instruction. Amma gave a number of other illustrations of the subtle distinctions to dharma and the significance of the Guru's every word and action, and the importance of proper understanding, but I did not write them down. To this DAughter, having heard Amma emphasize the syllable DA the day before, it was so beautiful to be given more instructions about how much our minds and samskaras shape our interpretation of " what is going down " at any given moment. There was also another brief question that Mother said She would answer on another day, a devotee from perhaps Deutschelande, asked for Mother's core message to the young parents attending and to the teachers of the world. Mother said it was a very good question, and to give a one word answer: COMPASSION. Hope you are all well. respectfully, Prashanti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 I recall a couple of such stories from my ancient reading of the SRK literature. Once Sri Ramakrishna advised someone not to kill mosquitos and another time He was spotted trying to swat them in His room. The same with cockroaches. Contradictions are quite common, with Mahatmas, as with life in general. Context usually dominates, but generality has value if you can isolate it. Now there is a contradiction! fg/hw Ammachi , " Prashanti " <ammasprashanti wrote: > > Om Amriteswaryai Namah, > > Forgive my partial rendering of this thought-provoking exchange. But I > wanted to share a bit of an experience from Mother's visit to San Ramon. > > Last night, between the satsang and bhajans, Amma took a question from Her > children. A daughter asked for explanation of, or insight into, an anecdote > she had recently heard about Ramakrishna. According to the account she had > read, once Sri Ramakrishna had told a devotee to take a cockroach outside > and kill it. The devotee could not, he just let it go or something, and > when he came back to the Guru, He scolded the disciple and said " You should > have killed the cockroach. " The daughter wondered if Amma could help > explain that story to us. > > Amma replied that she did not think a Mahatma would give such instructions. > She couldn't believe it happened that way. (She asked the daughter where she > had read it, and repeated several times Her sense that it seemed unlikely > that a Mahatma would tell a disciple to injure a harmless creature.) IF it > did happen like that, perhaps it was a test of the disciple's maturity. > That Ramakrishna might have been testing his disciple, to see if he would > obey unquestioningly. > > (And then came a lovely bit of insight about the way a chela matures, and > that we should use our discriminative powers to attend to the meaning and > significance behind the Guru's words / instructions / actions.) Mother also > made a funny joke about how She understands that many of her western > children are afraid of cockroaches! > > But above all, from this daughter's perspective, Amma emphasized that it was > very difficult to answer such questions, because of the way spiritual wisdom > is diluted as stories are told over and over and over again. " In today's > world people will hear one thing and say it another way and so on... " Each > person adds a little water, so to speak, and then it is like a game of > whisper-down-the-alley or telephone, and the truth becomes distorted or > diluted and things are lost. > > Devotees relate their interpretation of a story according to their own > understanding and maturity. > > For example, once the world was suffering with drought and war and illness > and such things. The humans, asuras, and devas went to Father Brahma, the > Creator, to ask for his help. Lord Brahma was in deep meditation, and > simply uttered one syllable in response to his children's pleas: " DA. " > > The humans heard that single syllable DA and thought, " He must mean [a > sanskrit word sounded like danam] charity " or to give away and share with > others. Because humans were not sharing with each other. > > The demons heard that single syllable DA and thought it meant " DAYA, " or > kindness. Because their nature was cruelty and they " needed " to be more > kind. > > And the devas, who were indulgers and hedonists, heard that single syllable > DA and thought it must mean [not sure of the word] to practice restraint. > Because they needed to control their sense organs. > > The implication being that each one interprets it differently according to > his own desires and according to his own maturity. So we must be attentive > to understanding the true signficance of an instruction. > > Amma gave a number of other illustrations of the subtle distinctions to > dharma and the significance of the Guru's every word and action, and the > importance of proper understanding, but I did not write them down. To this > DAughter, having heard Amma emphasize the syllable DA the day before, it was > so beautiful to be given more instructions about how much our minds and > samskaras shape our interpretation of " what is going down " at any given > moment. > > There was also another brief question that Mother said She would answer on > another day, a devotee from perhaps Deutschelande, asked for Mother's core > message to the young parents attending and to the teachers of the world. > Mother said it was a very good question, and to give a one word answer: > COMPASSION. > > Hope you are all well. > > respectfully, > Prashanti > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 ONS, Sri Ramakrishna gave different advice to different people based on their temperaments. Best examples given were Swami Yogananda (Jogen Roy Choudhury) and Swami Niranjananada (Nithya Niranjan Ghosh). Jogen was extremely kind hearted, in fact Sri Ramakrishna was so worried about his kindness that he thought it would become an impediment for spiritual progress. One day, Sri Ramakrishna while cleaning his room found cockroach, Jogen was present there. Sri Ramakrishna asked Jogen to kill the cockroach. Jogen took the roach outside but let it go. When he returned, Sri Ramakrishna asked if he killed the roach, Jogen answered in negative, Sri Ramakrishna rebuked Jogen for not listening to master and acting according to his own will. Sri Ramakrishna was trying to mold Jogen's nature. On adifferent day, Jogen was on his way to Dakshineshwar to see Sri Ramakrishna in a boat (in Ganges river), his fellow passengers started bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna , they wouldn't stop. Jogen being soft natured didn't uttered a word, later he conveyed the scenario to Sr Ramakrishna. Sri Ramakrishna rebuked Jogen and said he should have protested and a disciple should always defend his guru. Niranjan's nature was exactly opposite to Jogen. Niranjan was broad chested with athletic physique and had violent temper. On a particular day he was on his way to Dakshineshwar in a boat, his fellow passengers started bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna. Niranjan protested, but they wouldn't budge. Niranjan jumped into water (he was adept in swimming) and started rocking the boat. He wanted to sink the boat so everybody could get drowned. People started to cry and asked for his forgiveness, eventually Niranjan relented. Later he informed this scenario to Sri Ramakrishna, master was absolutely not pleased with Niranjan's behavior. He told Niranjan never to behave like that again, and advised him to be satvic. Sri Ramkrishna was advising differently to different people based on their nature. Aum Avinash faintglow <faintglow Ammachi Friday, June 8, 2007 10:11:03 PM Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 I recall a couple of such stories from my ancient reading of the SRK literature. Once Sri Ramakrishna advised someone not to kill mosquitos and another time He was spotted trying to swat them in His room. The same with cockroaches. Contradictions are quite common, with Mahatmas, as with life in general. Context usually dominates, but generality has value if you can isolate it. Now there is a contradiction! fg/hw Ammachi@ .com, " Prashanti " <ammasprashanti@ ...> wrote: > > Om Amriteswaryai Namah, > > Forgive my partial rendering of this thought-provoking exchange. But I > wanted to share a bit of an experience from Mother's visit to San Ramon. > > Last night, between the satsang and bhajans, Amma took a question from Her > children. A daughter asked for explanation of, or insight into, an anecdote > she had recently heard about Ramakrishna. According to the account she had > read, once Sri Ramakrishna had told a devotee to take a cockroach outside > and kill it. The devotee could not, he just let it go or something, and > when he came back to the Guru, He scolded the disciple and said " You should > have killed the cockroach. " The daughter wondered if Amma could help > explain that story to us. > > Amma replied that she did not think a Mahatma would give such instructions. > She couldn't believe it happened that way. (She asked the daughter where she > had read it, and repeated several times Her sense that it seemed unlikely > that a Mahatma would tell a disciple to injure a harmless creature.) IF it > did happen like that, perhaps it was a test of the disciple's maturity. > That Ramakrishna might have been testing his disciple, to see if he would > obey unquestioningly. > > (And then came a lovely bit of insight about the way a chela matures, and > that we should use our discriminative powers to attend to the meaning and > significance behind the Guru's words / instructions / actions.) Mother also > made a funny joke about how She understands that many of her western > children are afraid of cockroaches! > > But above all, from this daughter's perspective, Amma emphasized that it was > very difficult to answer such questions, because of the way spiritual wisdom > is diluted as stories are told over and over and over again. " In today's > world people will hear one thing and say it another way and so on... " Each > person adds a little water, so to speak, and then it is like a game of > whisper-down- the-alley or telephone, and the truth becomes distorted or > diluted and things are lost. > > Devotees relate their interpretation of a story according to their own > understanding and maturity. > > For example, once the world was suffering with drought and war and illness > and such things. The humans, asuras, and devas went to Father Brahma, the > Creator, to ask for his help. Lord Brahma was in deep meditation, and > simply uttered one syllable in response to his children's pleas: " DA. " > > The humans heard that single syllable DA and thought, " He must mean [a > sanskrit word sounded like danam] charity " or to give away and share with > others. Because humans were not sharing with each other. > > The demons heard that single syllable DA and thought it meant " DAYA, " or > kindness. Because their nature was cruelty and they " needed " to be more > kind. > > And the devas, who were indulgers and hedonists, heard that single syllable > DA and thought it must mean [not sure of the word] to practice restraint. > Because they needed to control their sense organs. > > The implication being that each one interprets it differently according to > his own desires and according to his own maturity. So we must be attentive > to understanding the true signficance of an instruction. > > Amma gave a number of other illustrations of the subtle distinctions to > dharma and the significance of the Guru's every word and action, and the > importance of proper understanding, but I did not write them down. To this > DAughter, having heard Amma emphasize the syllable DA the day before, it was > so beautiful to be given more instructions about how much our minds and > samskaras shape our interpretation of " what is going down " at any given > moment. > > There was also another brief question that Mother said She would answer on > another day, a devotee from perhaps Deutschelande, asked for Mother's core > message to the young parents attending and to the teachers of the world. > Mother said it was a very good question, and to give a one word answer: > COMPASSION. > > Hope you are all well. > > respectfully, > Prashanti > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 There are a LOT of seeming contradictions with Jesus' teachings (and Buddha's) also. I think what they are meant to do is shake up our thinking and open our minds Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I appreciate this story in that Sri Ramakrishna might have had what he considered his students' best interests at heart, but in at least the first case, his advice ... well, better that the student followed his own nature. In the second case ... loyalty to one's " guru " at the expense of others' lives is what drives airplanes into buildings, etc. These two stories together form a picture worth sharing further with Amma. Is there a book that includes both? They are worthy of more discourse. Amma's own advice is that it isn't necessary to have faith in God, or in Amma, but in oneself. One must have faith in oneself in order to have the confidence to live according to one's spiritual principles in this world. http://www.amritapuri.org/teachings/qualities/faith.php In light of Amma's advice, I interpret these stories this way, but also have a concern: In the first example, the student followed his own " faith, " trusted in his own heart's calling. In the second, the student did not follow his faith, but rather, got off-track due to others' responses. As Amma has said, " If we do not cultivate true detachment, our happiness will lie at the tips of others' tongues. " Yet, in the case of the first student, could it not be said that the guru was directing the student much like Arjuna was directed in the Bhagavad Gita to allow or take part in killing as a means to realizing that there is something greater than physical embodiment? My concern with this view is that folks can wind up nailing someone up on a cross -- figuratively, if not literally in this day and age -- or wind others up to crashing into buildings for God, guru, or state. When the " I " becomes the " i " and then becomes the " I " (I'm quoting an AmmaBhakti group member), then no threatening of the boat passengers' lives or crashing into buildings is necessary, though many times due to ignorance humans are killed for living in accordance with their faith (Jesus, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., etc.). Ammachi , avinash ramidi <avinash7_99 wrote: > > ONS, > > Sri Ramakrishna gave different advice to different people based on their temperaments. Best examples given were Swami Yogananda (Jogen Roy Choudhury) and Swami Niranjananada (Nithya Niranjan Ghosh). > > Jogen was extremely kind hearted, in fact Sri Ramakrishna was so worried about his kindness that he thought it would become an impediment for spiritual progress. One day, Sri Ramakrishna while cleaning his room found cockroach, Jogen was present there. Sri Ramakrishna asked Jogen to kill the cockroach. Jogen took the roach outside but let it go. When he returned, Sri Ramakrishna asked if he killed the roach, Jogen answered in negative, Sri Ramakrishna rebuked Jogen for not listening to master and acting according to his own will. Sri Ramakrishna was trying to mold Jogen's nature. > > On adifferent day, Jogen was on his way to Dakshineshwar to see Sri Ramakrishna in a boat (in Ganges river), his fellow passengers started bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna , they wouldn't stop. Jogen being soft natured didn't uttered a word, later he conveyed the scenario to Sr Ramakrishna. Sri Ramakrishna rebuked Jogen and said he should have protested and a disciple should always defend his guru. > > Niranjan's nature was exactly opposite to Jogen. Niranjan was broad chested with athletic physique and had violent temper. On a particular day he was on his way to Dakshineshwar in a boat, his fellow passengers started bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna. Niranjan protested, but they wouldn't budge. Niranjan jumped into water (he was adept in swimming) and started rocking the boat. He wanted to sink the boat so everybody could get drowned. People started to cry and asked for his forgiveness, eventually Niranjan relented. Later he informed this scenario to Sri Ramakrishna, master was absolutely not pleased with Niranjan's behavior. He told Niranjan never to behave like that again, and advised him to be satvic. > > Sri Ramkrishna was advising differently to different people based on their nature. > > Aum > Avinash > > > faintglow <faintglow > Ammachi > Friday, June 8, 2007 10:11:03 PM > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > I recall a couple of such stories from my ancient reading of the SRK > > literature. Once Sri Ramakrishna advised someone not to kill mosquitos > > and another time He was spotted trying to swat them in His room. The > > same with cockroaches. > > > > Contradictions are quite common, with Mahatmas, as with life in general. > > Context usually dominates, but generality has value if you can isolate > > it. Now there is a contradiction! > > > > fg/hw > > > > Ammachi@ .com, " Prashanti " <ammasprashanti@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Om Amriteswaryai Namah, > > > > > > Forgive my partial rendering of this thought-provoking exchange. But I > > > wanted to share a bit of an experience from Mother's visit to San > > Ramon. > > > > > > Last night, between the satsang and bhajans, Amma took a question from > > Her > > > children. A daughter asked for explanation of, or insight into, an > > anecdote > > > she had recently heard about Ramakrishna. According to the account she > > had > > > read, once Sri Ramakrishna had told a devotee to take a cockroach > > outside > > > and kill it. The devotee could not, he just let it go or something, > > and > > > when he came back to the Guru, He scolded the disciple and said " You > > should > > > have killed the cockroach. " The daughter wondered if Amma could help > > > explain that story to us. > > > > > > Amma replied that she did not think a Mahatma would give such > > instructions. > > > She couldn't believe it happened that way. (She asked the daughter > > where she > > > had read it, and repeated several times Her sense that it seemed > > unlikely > > > that a Mahatma would tell a disciple to injure a harmless creature.) > > IF it > > > did happen like that, perhaps it was a test of the disciple's > > maturity. > > > That Ramakrishna might have been testing his disciple, to see if he > > would > > > obey unquestioningly. > > > > > > (And then came a lovely bit of insight about the way a chela matures, > > and > > > that we should use our discriminative powers to attend to the meaning > > and > > > significance behind the Guru's words / instructions / actions.) Mother > > also > > > made a funny joke about how She understands that many of her western > > > children are afraid of cockroaches! > > > > > > But above all, from this daughter's perspective, Amma emphasized that > > it was > > > very difficult to answer such questions, because of the way spiritual > > wisdom > > > is diluted as stories are told over and over and over again. " In > > today's > > > world people will hear one thing and say it another way and so on... " > > Each > > > person adds a little water, so to speak, and then it is like a game of > > > whisper-down- the-alley or telephone, and the truth becomes distorted > > or > > > diluted and things are lost. > > > > > > Devotees relate their interpretation of a story according to their own > > > understanding and maturity. > > > > > > For example, once the world was suffering with drought and war and > > illness > > > and such things. The humans, asuras, and devas went to Father Brahma, > > the > > > Creator, to ask for his help. Lord Brahma was in deep meditation, and > > > simply uttered one syllable in response to his children's pleas: " DA. " > > > > > > The humans heard that single syllable DA and thought, " He must mean [a > > > sanskrit word sounded like danam] charity " or to give away and share > > with > > > others. Because humans were not sharing with each other. > > > > > > The demons heard that single syllable DA and thought it meant " DAYA, " > > or > > > kindness. Because their nature was cruelty and they " needed " to be > > more > > > kind. > > > > > > And the devas, who were indulgers and hedonists, heard that single > > syllable > > > DA and thought it must mean [not sure of the word] to practice > > restraint. > > > Because they needed to control their sense organs. > > > > > > The implication being that each one interprets it differently > > according to > > > his own desires and according to his own maturity. So we must be > > attentive > > > to understanding the true signficance of an instruction. > > > > > > Amma gave a number of other illustrations of the subtle distinctions > > to > > > dharma and the significance of the Guru's every word and action, and > > the > > > importance of proper understanding, but I did not write them down. To > > this > > > DAughter, having heard Amma emphasize the syllable DA the day before, > > it was > > > so beautiful to be given more instructions about how much our minds > > and > > > samskaras shape our interpretation of " what is going down " at any > > given > > > moment. > > > > > > There was also another brief question that Mother said She would > > answer on > > > another day, a devotee from perhaps Deutschelande, asked for Mother's > > core > > > message to the young parents attending and to the teachers of the > > world. > > > Mother said it was a very good question, and to give a one word > > answer: > > > COMPASSION. > > > > > > Hope you are all well. > > > > > > respectfully, > > > Prashanti > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 ONS Mary Ann, The book I was referring here was " GOD LIVED WITH THEM " , Life Stories of Sixteen Monastic Disciples of Sri Ramakrishna, By Swami Chetanananda. This is an amazing book, detailing biographies of people who renounced the world in late teens and early twenties. When people hear about Sri Ramakrishna, they only think about Swami Vivekananda, but there are other 15 monastic disciples who are as incredible. I felt that these people are from different plain altogehther, seeking adventure in monasticism. Particularly Swami Akhandananda (Gangadhar Gangopadhyay) is my favorite, he went length and breadth of India on foot. He travelled to Tibet twice and his commitment for social service was beyond ordinary. One particular thing that really amazed me is how he was relying on God for his next meal while he was traveling in India, he never carried any money and he was just in his early 20's. There is a short book describing his experiences while he was traveling through Himalayas on foot, " In the Lap of Himalayas " . Again, words cannot describe essence of this book. Aum Avinash Mary Ann <buttercookie61 Ammachi Saturday, June 9, 2007 9:16:40 PM Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 I appreciate this story in that Sri Ramakrishna might have had what he considered his students' best interests at heart, but in at least the first case, his advice ... well, better that the student followed his own nature. In the second case ... loyalty to one's " guru " at the expense of others' lives is what drives airplanes into buildings, etc. These two stories together form a picture worth sharing further with Amma. Is there a book that includes both? They are worthy of more discourse. Amma's own advice is that it isn't necessary to have faith in God, or in Amma, but in oneself. One must have faith in oneself in order to have the confidence to live according to one's spiritual principles in this world. http://www.amritapu ri.org/teachings /qualities/ faith.php In light of Amma's advice, I interpret these stories this way, but also have a concern: In the first example, the student followed his own " faith, " trusted in his own heart's calling. In the second, the student did not follow his faith, but rather, got off-track due to others' responses. As Amma has said, " If we do not cultivate true detachment, our happiness will lie at the tips of others' tongues. " Yet, in the case of the first student, could it not be said that the guru was directing the student much like Arjuna was directed in the Bhagavad Gita to allow or take part in killing as a means to realizing that there is something greater than physical embodiment? My concern with this view is that folks can wind up nailing someone up on a cross -- figuratively, if not literally in this day and age -- or wind others up to crashing into buildings for God, guru, or state. When the " I " becomes the " i " and then becomes the " I " (I'm quoting an AmmaBhakti group member), then no threatening of the boat passengers' lives or crashing into buildings is necessary, though many times due to ignorance humans are killed for living in accordance with their faith (Jesus, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., etc.). Ammachi@ .com, avinash ramidi <avinash7_99@ ...> wrote: > > ONS, > > Sri Ramakrishna gave different advice to different people based on their temperaments. Best examples given were Swami Yogananda (Jogen Roy Choudhury) and Swami Niranjananada (Nithya Niranjan Ghosh). > > Jogen was extremely kind hearted, in fact Sri Ramakrishna was so worried about his kindness that he thought it would become an impediment for spiritual progress. One day, Sri Ramakrishna while cleaning his room found cockroach, Jogen was present there. Sri Ramakrishna asked Jogen to kill the cockroach. Jogen took the roach outside but let it go. When he returned, Sri Ramakrishna asked if he killed the roach, Jogen answered in negative, Sri Ramakrishna rebuked Jogen for not listening to master and acting according to his own will. Sri Ramakrishna was trying to mold Jogen's nature. > > On adifferent day, Jogen was on his way to Dakshineshwar to see Sri Ramakrishna in a boat (in Ganges river), his fellow passengers started bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna , they wouldn't stop. Jogen being soft natured didn't uttered a word, later he conveyed the scenario to Sr Ramakrishna. Sri Ramakrishna rebuked Jogen and said he should have protested and a disciple should always defend his guru. > > Niranjan's nature was exactly opposite to Jogen. Niranjan was broad chested with athletic physique and had violent temper. On a particular day he was on his way to Dakshineshwar in a boat, his fellow passengers started bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna. Niranjan protested, but they wouldn't budge. Niranjan jumped into water (he was adept in swimming) and started rocking the boat. He wanted to sink the boat so everybody could get drowned. People started to cry and asked for his forgiveness, eventually Niranjan relented. Later he informed this scenario to Sri Ramakrishna, master was absolutely not pleased with Niranjan's behavior. He told Niranjan never to behave like that again, and advised him to be satvic. > > Sri Ramkrishna was advising differently to different people based on their nature. > > Aum > Avinash > > > faintglow <faintglow@. ..> > Ammachi@ .com > Friday, June 8, 2007 10:11:03 PM > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recall a couple of such stories from my ancient reading of the SRK > > literature. Once Sri Ramakrishna advised someone not to kill mosquitos > > and another time He was spotted trying to swat them in His room. The > > same with cockroaches. > > > > Contradictions are quite common, with Mahatmas, as with life in general. > > Context usually dominates, but generality has value if you can isolate > > it. Now there is a contradiction! > > > > fg/hw > > > > Ammachi@ .com, " Prashanti " <ammasprashanti@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Om Amriteswaryai Namah, > > > > > > Forgive my partial rendering of this thought-provoking exchange. But I > > > wanted to share a bit of an experience from Mother's visit to San > > Ramon. > > > > > > Last night, between the satsang and bhajans, Amma took a question from > > Her > > > children. A daughter asked for explanation of, or insight into, an > > anecdote > > > she had recently heard about Ramakrishna. According to the account she > > had > > > read, once Sri Ramakrishna had told a devotee to take a cockroach > > outside > > > and kill it. The devotee could not, he just let it go or something, > > and > > > when he came back to the Guru, He scolded the disciple and said " You > > should > > > have killed the cockroach. " The daughter wondered if Amma could help > > > explain that story to us. > > > > > > Amma replied that she did not think a Mahatma would give such > > instructions. > > > She couldn't believe it happened that way. (She asked the daughter > > where she > > > had read it, and repeated several times Her sense that it seemed > > unlikely > > > that a Mahatma would tell a disciple to injure a harmless creature.) > > IF it > > > did happen like that, perhaps it was a test of the disciple's > > maturity. > > > That Ramakrishna might have been testing his disciple, to see if he > > would > > > obey unquestioningly. > > > > > > (And then came a lovely bit of insight about the way a chela matures, > > and > > > that we should use our discriminative powers to attend to the meaning > > and > > > significance behind the Guru's words / instructions / actions.) Mother > > also > > > made a funny joke about how She understands that many of her western > > > children are afraid of cockroaches! > > > > > > But above all, from this daughter's perspective, Amma emphasized that > > it was > > > very difficult to answer such questions, because of the way spiritual > > wisdom > > > is diluted as stories are told over and over and over again. " In > > today's > > > world people will hear one thing and say it another way and so on... " > > Each > > > person adds a little water, so to speak, and then it is like a game of > > > whisper-down- the-alley or telephone, and the truth becomes distorted > > or > > > diluted and things are lost. > > > > > > Devotees relate their interpretation of a story according to their own > > > understanding and maturity. > > > > > > For example, once the world was suffering with drought and war and > > illness > > > and such things. The humans, asuras, and devas went to Father Brahma, > > the > > > Creator, to ask for his help. Lord Brahma was in deep meditation, and > > > simply uttered one syllable in response to his children's pleas: " DA. " > > > > > > The humans heard that single syllable DA and thought, " He must mean [a > > > sanskrit word sounded like danam] charity " or to give away and share > > with > > > others. Because humans were not sharing with each other. > > > > > > The demons heard that single syllable DA and thought it meant " DAYA, " > > or > > > kindness. Because their nature was cruelty and they " needed " to be > > more > > > kind. > > > > > > And the devas, who were indulgers and hedonists, heard that single > > syllable > > > DA and thought it must mean [not sure of the word] to practice > > restraint. > > > Because they needed to control their sense organs. > > > > > > The implication being that each one interprets it differently > > according to > > > his own desires and according to his own maturity. So we must be > > attentive > > > to understanding the true signficance of an instruction. > > > > > > Amma gave a number of other illustrations of the subtle distinctions > > to > > > dharma and the significance of the Guru's every word and action, and > > the > > > importance of proper understanding, but I did not write them down. To > > this > > > DAughter, having heard Amma emphasize the syllable DA the day before, > > it was > > > so beautiful to be given more instructions about how much our minds > > and > > > samskaras shape our interpretation of " what is going down " at any > > given > > > moment. > > > > > > There was also another brief question that Mother said She would > > answer on > > > another day, a devotee from perhaps Deutschelande, asked for Mother's > > core > > > message to the young parents attending and to the teachers of the > > world. > > > Mother said it was a very good question, and to give a one word > > answer: > > > COMPASSION. > > > > > > Hope you are all well. > > > > > > respectfully, > > > Prashanti > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Hi Avinash, Thank you for the book titles; your favorite Swami does sound quite intriguing. I look forward to reading more about him. Namaste, Mary Ann Ammachi , avinash ramidi <avinash7_99 wrote: > > ONS Mary Ann, > > The book I was referring here was " GOD LIVED WITH THEM " , Life Stories of Sixteen Monastic Disciples of Sri Ramakrishna, By Swami Chetanananda. > > This is an amazing book, detailing biographies of people who renounced the world in late teens and early twenties. When people hear about Sri Ramakrishna, they only think about Swami Vivekananda, but there are other 15 monastic disciples who are as incredible. I felt that these people are from different plain altogehther, seeking adventure in monasticism. Particularly Swami Akhandananda (Gangadhar Gangopadhyay) is my favorite, he went length and breadth of India on foot. He travelled to Tibet twice and his commitment for social service was beyond ordinary. One particular thing that really amazed me is how he was relying on God for his next meal while he was traveling in India, he never carried any money and he was just in his early 20's. There is a short book describing his experiences while he was traveling through Himalayas on foot, " In the Lap of Himalayas " . Again, words cannot describe essence of this book. > > Aum > Avinash > > > > > Mary Ann <buttercookie61 > Ammachi > Saturday, June 9, 2007 9:16:40 PM > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > I appreciate this story in that Sri Ramakrishna might have had what he > > considered his students' best interests at heart, but in at least the > > first case, his advice ... well, better that the student followed his > > own nature. In the second case ... loyalty to one's " guru " at the > > expense of others' lives is what drives airplanes into buildings, etc. > > These two stories together form a picture worth sharing further with > > Amma. Is there a book that includes both? They are worthy of more > > discourse. > > > > Amma's own advice is that it isn't necessary to have faith in God, or > > in Amma, but in oneself. One must have faith in oneself in order to > > have the confidence to live according to one's spiritual principles in > > this world. http://www.amritapu ri.org/teachings /qualities/ faith.php > > In light of Amma's advice, I interpret these stories this way, but > > also have a concern: > > > > In the first example, the student followed his own " faith, " trusted in > > his own heart's calling. In the second, the student did not follow his > > faith, but rather, got off-track due to others' responses. As Amma has > > said, " If we do not cultivate true detachment, our happiness will lie > > at the tips of others' tongues. " Yet, in the case of the first > > student, could it not be said that the guru was directing the student > > much like Arjuna was directed in the Bhagavad Gita to allow or take > > part in killing as a means to realizing that there is something > > greater than physical embodiment? My concern with this view is that > > folks can wind up nailing someone up on a cross -- figuratively, if > > not literally in this day and age -- or wind others up to crashing > > into buildings for God, guru, or state. > > > > When the " I " becomes the " i " and then becomes the " I " (I'm quoting an > > AmmaBhakti group member), then no threatening of the boat passengers' > > lives or crashing into buildings is necessary, though many times due > > to ignorance humans are killed for living in accordance with their > > faith (Jesus, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., etc.). > > > > Ammachi@ .com, avinash ramidi <avinash7_99@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > ONS, > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna gave different advice to different people based on > > their temperaments. Best examples given were Swami Yogananda (Jogen > > Roy Choudhury) and Swami Niranjananada (Nithya Niranjan Ghosh). > > > > > > Jogen was extremely kind hearted, in fact Sri Ramakrishna was so > > worried about his kindness that he thought it would become an > > impediment for spiritual progress. One day, Sri Ramakrishna while > > cleaning his room found cockroach, Jogen was present there. Sri > > Ramakrishna asked Jogen to kill the cockroach. Jogen took the roach > > outside but let it go. When he returned, Sri Ramakrishna asked if he > > killed the roach, Jogen answered in negative, Sri Ramakrishna rebuked > > Jogen for not listening to master and acting according to his own > > will. Sri Ramakrishna was trying to mold Jogen's nature. > > > > > > On adifferent day, Jogen was on his way to Dakshineshwar to see Sri > > Ramakrishna in a boat (in Ganges river), his fellow passengers started > > bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna , they wouldn't stop. Jogen being soft > > natured didn't uttered a word, later he conveyed the scenario to Sr > > Ramakrishna. Sri Ramakrishna rebuked Jogen and said he should have > > protested and a disciple should always defend his guru. > > > > > > Niranjan's nature was exactly opposite to Jogen. Niranjan was broad > > chested with athletic physique and had violent temper. On a particular > > day he was on his way to Dakshineshwar in a boat, his fellow > > passengers started bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna. Niranjan protested, > > but they wouldn't budge. Niranjan jumped into water (he was adept in > > swimming) and started rocking the boat. He wanted to sink the boat so > > everybody could get drowned. People started to cry and asked for his > > forgiveness, eventually Niranjan relented. Later he informed this > > scenario to Sri Ramakrishna, master was absolutely not pleased with > > Niranjan's behavior. He told Niranjan never to behave like that > > again, and advised him to be satvic. > > > > > > Sri Ramkrishna was advising differently to different people based > > on their nature. > > > > > > Aum > > > Avinash > > > > > > > > > faintglow <faintglow@ ..> > > > Ammachi@ .com > > > Friday, June 8, 2007 10:11:03 PM > > > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recall a couple of such stories from my ancient reading of the SRK > > > > > > literature. Once Sri Ramakrishna advised someone not to kill mosquitos > > > > > > and another time He was spotted trying to swat them in His room. The > > > > > > same with cockroaches. > > > > > > > > > > > > Contradictions are quite common, with Mahatmas, as with life in general. > > > > > > Context usually dominates, but generality has value if you can isolate > > > > > > it. Now there is a contradiction! > > > > > > > > > > > > fg/hw > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, " Prashanti " <ammasprashanti@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Amriteswaryai Namah, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forgive my partial rendering of this thought-provoking exchange. But I > > > > > > > wanted to share a bit of an experience from Mother's visit to San > > > > > > Ramon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night, between the satsang and bhajans, Amma took a question from > > > > > > Her > > > > > > > children. A daughter asked for explanation of, or insight into, an > > > > > > anecdote > > > > > > > she had recently heard about Ramakrishna. According to the account she > > > > > > had > > > > > > > read, once Sri Ramakrishna had told a devotee to take a cockroach > > > > > > outside > > > > > > > and kill it. The devotee could not, he just let it go or something, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > when he came back to the Guru, He scolded the disciple and said " You > > > > > > should > > > > > > > have killed the cockroach. " The daughter wondered if Amma could help > > > > > > > explain that story to us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma replied that she did not think a Mahatma would give such > > > > > > instructions. > > > > > > > She couldn't believe it happened that way. (She asked the daughter > > > > > > where she > > > > > > > had read it, and repeated several times Her sense that it seemed > > > > > > unlikely > > > > > > > that a Mahatma would tell a disciple to injure a harmless creature.) > > > > > > IF it > > > > > > > did happen like that, perhaps it was a test of the disciple's > > > > > > maturity. > > > > > > > That Ramakrishna might have been testing his disciple, to see if he > > > > > > would > > > > > > > obey unquestioningly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (And then came a lovely bit of insight about the way a chela matures, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > that we should use our discriminative powers to attend to the meaning > > > > > > and > > > > > > > significance behind the Guru's words / instructions / actions.) Mother > > > > > > also > > > > > > > made a funny joke about how She understands that many of her western > > > > > > > children are afraid of cockroaches! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But above all, from this daughter's perspective, Amma emphasized that > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > very difficult to answer such questions, because of the way spiritual > > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > > is diluted as stories are told over and over and over again. " In > > > > > > today's > > > > > > > world people will hear one thing and say it another way and so on... " > > > > > > Each > > > > > > > person adds a little water, so to speak, and then it is like a game of > > > > > > > whisper-down- the-alley or telephone, and the truth becomes distorted > > > > > > or > > > > > > > diluted and things are lost. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devotees relate their interpretation of a story according to their own > > > > > > > understanding and maturity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, once the world was suffering with drought and war and > > > > > > illness > > > > > > > and such things. The humans, asuras, and devas went to Father Brahma, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Creator, to ask for his help. Lord Brahma was in deep meditation, and > > > > > > > simply uttered one syllable in response to his children's pleas: " DA. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The humans heard that single syllable DA and thought, " He must mean [a > > > > > > > sanskrit word sounded like danam] charity " or to give away and share > > > > > > with > > > > > > > others. Because humans were not sharing with each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The demons heard that single syllable DA and thought it meant " DAYA, " > > > > > > or > > > > > > > kindness. Because their nature was cruelty and they " needed " to be > > > > > > more > > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the devas, who were indulgers and hedonists, heard that single > > > > > > syllable > > > > > > > DA and thought it must mean [not sure of the word] to practice > > > > > > restraint. > > > > > > > Because they needed to control their sense organs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The implication being that each one interprets it differently > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > his own desires and according to his own maturity. So we must be > > > > > > attentive > > > > > > > to understanding the true signficance of an instruction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma gave a number of other illustrations of the subtle distinctions > > > > > > to > > > > > > > dharma and the significance of the Guru's every word and action, and > > > > > > the > > > > > > > importance of proper understanding, but I did not write them down. To > > > > > > this > > > > > > > DAughter, having heard Amma emphasize the syllable DA the day before, > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > so beautiful to be given more instructions about how much our minds > > > > > > and > > > > > > > samskaras shape our interpretation of " what is going down " at any > > > > > > given > > > > > > > moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There was also another brief question that Mother said She would > > > > > > answer on > > > > > > > another day, a devotee from perhaps Deutschelande, asked for Mother's > > > > > > core > > > > > > > message to the young parents attending and to the teachers of the > > > > > > world. > > > > > > > Mother said it was a very good question, and to give a one word > > > > > > answer: > > > > > > > COMPASSION. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope you are all well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > respectfully, > > > > > > > Prashanti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Avinash, I've read " They Lived With God " too. It is excellent. But there are still many things which are hard to figure out. For instance there was an instance of two very sincere disciples of Nag Mahashay who perished inhaling toxic gases, trying to rescue a boy who had fallen into a manhole. While several bystanders stood by without moving to help, because they were mindful of the risks, these two jumped in with the declared belief that their Guru (Sri NM) would protect them in their worthy cause. When Sri Nag Mahashay heard the news he was of course highly saddened, but that does not explain why his disciples' faith in him failed to pay off in the conventional way. Of course, it is possible to solve this problem by invoking karma and an after-life but that seems like a cop-out, intellectually speaking. fg/hw Ammachi , avinash ramidi <avinash7_99 wrote: > > ONS Mary Ann, > > The book I was referring here was " GOD LIVED WITH THEM " , Life Stories of Sixteen Monastic Disciples of Sri Ramakrishna, By Swami Chetanananda. > > This is an amazing book, detailing biographies of people who renounced the world in late teens and early twenties. When people hear about Sri Ramakrishna, they only think about Swami Vivekananda, but there are other 15 monastic disciples who are as incredible. I felt that these people are from different plain altogehther, seeking adventure in monasticism. Particularly Swami Akhandananda (Gangadhar Gangopadhyay) is my favorite, he went length and breadth of India on foot. He travelled to Tibet twice and his commitment for social service was beyond ordinary. One particular thing that really amazed me is how he was relying on God for his next meal while he was traveling in India, he never carried any money and he was just in his early 20's. There is a short book describing his experiences while he was traveling through Himalayas on foot, " In the Lap of Himalayas " . Again, words cannot describe essence of this book. > > Aum > Avinash > > > > > Mary Ann <buttercookie61 > Ammachi > Saturday, June 9, 2007 9:16:40 PM > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > I appreciate this story in that Sri Ramakrishna might have had what he > > considered his students' best interests at heart, but in at least the > > first case, his advice ... well, better that the student followed his > > own nature. In the second case ... loyalty to one's " guru " at the > > expense of others' lives is what drives airplanes into buildings, etc. > > These two stories together form a picture worth sharing further with > > Amma. Is there a book that includes both? They are worthy of more > > discourse. > > > > Amma's own advice is that it isn't necessary to have faith in God, or > > in Amma, but in oneself. One must have faith in oneself in order to > > have the confidence to live according to one's spiritual principles in > > this world. http://www.amritapu ri.org/teachings /qualities/ faith.php > > In light of Amma's advice, I interpret these stories this way, but > > also have a concern: > > > > In the first example, the student followed his own " faith, " trusted in > > his own heart's calling. In the second, the student did not follow his > > faith, but rather, got off-track due to others' responses. As Amma has > > said, " If we do not cultivate true detachment, our happiness will lie > > at the tips of others' tongues. " Yet, in the case of the first > > student, could it not be said that the guru was directing the student > > much like Arjuna was directed in the Bhagavad Gita to allow or take > > part in killing as a means to realizing that there is something > > greater than physical embodiment? My concern with this view is that > > folks can wind up nailing someone up on a cross -- figuratively, if > > not literally in this day and age -- or wind others up to crashing > > into buildings for God, guru, or state. > > > > When the " I " becomes the " i " and then becomes the " I " (I'm quoting an > > AmmaBhakti group member), then no threatening of the boat passengers' > > lives or crashing into buildings is necessary, though many times due > > to ignorance humans are killed for living in accordance with their > > faith (Jesus, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., etc.). > > > > Ammachi@ .com, avinash ramidi <avinash7_99@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > ONS, > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna gave different advice to different people based on > > their temperaments. Best examples given were Swami Yogananda (Jogen > > Roy Choudhury) and Swami Niranjananada (Nithya Niranjan Ghosh). > > > > > > Jogen was extremely kind hearted, in fact Sri Ramakrishna was so > > worried about his kindness that he thought it would become an > > impediment for spiritual progress. One day, Sri Ramakrishna while > > cleaning his room found cockroach, Jogen was present there. Sri > > Ramakrishna asked Jogen to kill the cockroach. Jogen took the roach > > outside but let it go. When he returned, Sri Ramakrishna asked if he > > killed the roach, Jogen answered in negative, Sri Ramakrishna rebuked > > Jogen for not listening to master and acting according to his own > > will. Sri Ramakrishna was trying to mold Jogen's nature. > > > > > > On adifferent day, Jogen was on his way to Dakshineshwar to see Sri > > Ramakrishna in a boat (in Ganges river), his fellow passengers started > > bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna , they wouldn't stop. Jogen being soft > > natured didn't uttered a word, later he conveyed the scenario to Sr > > Ramakrishna. Sri Ramakrishna rebuked Jogen and said he should have > > protested and a disciple should always defend his guru. > > > > > > Niranjan's nature was exactly opposite to Jogen. Niranjan was broad > > chested with athletic physique and had violent temper. On a particular > > day he was on his way to Dakshineshwar in a boat, his fellow > > passengers started bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna. Niranjan protested, > > but they wouldn't budge. Niranjan jumped into water (he was adept in > > swimming) and started rocking the boat. He wanted to sink the boat so > > everybody could get drowned. People started to cry and asked for his > > forgiveness, eventually Niranjan relented. Later he informed this > > scenario to Sri Ramakrishna, master was absolutely not pleased with > > Niranjan's behavior. He told Niranjan never to behave like that > > again, and advised him to be satvic. > > > > > > Sri Ramkrishna was advising differently to different people based > > on their nature. > > > > > > Aum > > > Avinash > > > > > > > > > faintglow <faintglow@ ..> > > > Ammachi@ .com > > > Friday, June 8, 2007 10:11:03 PM > > > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recall a couple of such stories from my ancient reading of the SRK > > > > > > literature. Once Sri Ramakrishna advised someone not to kill mosquitos > > > > > > and another time He was spotted trying to swat them in His room. The > > > > > > same with cockroaches. > > > > > > > > > > > > Contradictions are quite common, with Mahatmas, as with life in general. > > > > > > Context usually dominates, but generality has value if you can isolate > > > > > > it. Now there is a contradiction! > > > > > > > > > > > > fg/hw > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, " Prashanti " <ammasprashanti@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Amriteswaryai Namah, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forgive my partial rendering of this thought-provoking exchange. But I > > > > > > > wanted to share a bit of an experience from Mother's visit to San > > > > > > Ramon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night, between the satsang and bhajans, Amma took a question from > > > > > > Her > > > > > > > children. A daughter asked for explanation of, or insight into, an > > > > > > anecdote > > > > > > > she had recently heard about Ramakrishna. According to the account she > > > > > > had > > > > > > > read, once Sri Ramakrishna had told a devotee to take a cockroach > > > > > > outside > > > > > > > and kill it. The devotee could not, he just let it go or something, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > when he came back to the Guru, He scolded the disciple and said " You > > > > > > should > > > > > > > have killed the cockroach. " The daughter wondered if Amma could help > > > > > > > explain that story to us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma replied that she did not think a Mahatma would give such > > > > > > instructions. > > > > > > > She couldn't believe it happened that way. (She asked the daughter > > > > > > where she > > > > > > > had read it, and repeated several times Her sense that it seemed > > > > > > unlikely > > > > > > > that a Mahatma would tell a disciple to injure a harmless creature.) > > > > > > IF it > > > > > > > did happen like that, perhaps it was a test of the disciple's > > > > > > maturity. > > > > > > > That Ramakrishna might have been testing his disciple, to see if he > > > > > > would > > > > > > > obey unquestioningly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (And then came a lovely bit of insight about the way a chela matures, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > that we should use our discriminative powers to attend to the meaning > > > > > > and > > > > > > > significance behind the Guru's words / instructions / actions.) Mother > > > > > > also > > > > > > > made a funny joke about how She understands that many of her western > > > > > > > children are afraid of cockroaches! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But above all, from this daughter's perspective, Amma emphasized that > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > very difficult to answer such questions, because of the way spiritual > > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > > is diluted as stories are told over and over and over again. " In > > > > > > today's > > > > > > > world people will hear one thing and say it another way and so on... " > > > > > > Each > > > > > > > person adds a little water, so to speak, and then it is like a game of > > > > > > > whisper-down- the-alley or telephone, and the truth becomes distorted > > > > > > or > > > > > > > diluted and things are lost. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devotees relate their interpretation of a story according to their own > > > > > > > understanding and maturity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, once the world was suffering with drought and war and > > > > > > illness > > > > > > > and such things. The humans, asuras, and devas went to Father Brahma, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Creator, to ask for his help. Lord Brahma was in deep meditation, and > > > > > > > simply uttered one syllable in response to his children's pleas: " DA. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The humans heard that single syllable DA and thought, " He must mean [a > > > > > > > sanskrit word sounded like danam] charity " or to give away and share > > > > > > with > > > > > > > others. Because humans were not sharing with each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The demons heard that single syllable DA and thought it meant " DAYA, " > > > > > > or > > > > > > > kindness. Because their nature was cruelty and they " needed " to be > > > > > > more > > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the devas, who were indulgers and hedonists, heard that single > > > > > > syllable > > > > > > > DA and thought it must mean [not sure of the word] to practice > > > > > > restraint. > > > > > > > Because they needed to control their sense organs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The implication being that each one interprets it differently > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > his own desires and according to his own maturity. So we must be > > > > > > attentive > > > > > > > to understanding the true signficance of an instruction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma gave a number of other illustrations of the subtle distinctions > > > > > > to > > > > > > > dharma and the significance of the Guru's every word and action, and > > > > > > the > > > > > > > importance of proper understanding, but I did not write them down. To > > > > > > this > > > > > > > DAughter, having heard Amma emphasize the syllable DA the day before, > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > so beautiful to be given more instructions about how much our minds > > > > > > and > > > > > > > samskaras shape our interpretation of " what is going down " at any > > > > > > given > > > > > > > moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There was also another brief question that Mother said She would > > > > > > answer on > > > > > > > another day, a devotee from perhaps Deutschelande, asked for Mother's > > > > > > core > > > > > > > message to the young parents attending and to the teachers of the > > > > > > world. > > > > > > > Mother said it was a very good question, and to give a one word > > > > > > answer: > > > > > > > COMPASSION. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope you are all well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > respectfully, > > > > > > > Prashanti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 This is a sad story. It reminds me of Amma's advice that sitting in a sinking boat praying isn't enough; we need to try to plug the hole. At the same time, to be mindful of genuine dangers, and not foolhardily pretend that such dangers will not apply to us. This came up on this list recently when someone posted about having love and compassion but working with sociopaths, for whom receiving love and compassion can actually enable their pain and pain-causing behavior(s). Somehow this example came into my mind: when firemen and women go into burning buildings, they know the risks. It's part of their job, and I'm sure many who have survived difficult situations thank God for that. Yet, they still choose willingly to do their work, knowing there is a possibility they won't survive. That's kind of what Jesus was saying, too. And Amma when the knife-wielder attacked. Death may come; that is not a sign of God's abandonment of anyone. I don't think it's about karma, either, because although humans view death as a punishment, that's a limited view of the ego. Ammachi , " faintglow " <faintglow wrote: > > Avinash, > > I've read " They Lived With God " too. It is excellent. > > But there are still many things which are hard to figure out. For > instance there was an instance of two very sincere disciples of Nag > Mahashay who perished inhaling toxic gases, trying to rescue a boy > who had fallen into a manhole. While several bystanders stood by > without moving to help, because they were mindful of the risks, > these two jumped in with the declared belief that their Guru (Sri > NM) would protect them in their worthy cause. When Sri Nag Mahashay > heard the news he was of course highly saddened, but that does not > explain why his disciples' faith in him failed to pay off in the > conventional way. Of course, it is possible to solve this problem by > invoking karma and an after-life but that seems like a cop-out, > intellectually speaking. > > fg/hw > > Ammachi , avinash ramidi <avinash7_99@> > wrote: > > > > ONS Mary Ann, > > > > The book I was referring here was " GOD LIVED WITH THEM " , Life > Stories of Sixteen Monastic Disciples of Sri Ramakrishna, By Swami > Chetanananda. > > > > This is an amazing book, detailing biographies of people who > renounced the world in late teens and early twenties. When people > hear about Sri Ramakrishna, they only think about Swami Vivekananda, > but there are other 15 monastic disciples who are as incredible. I > felt that these people are from different plain altogehther, seeking > adventure in monasticism. Particularly Swami Akhandananda > (Gangadhar Gangopadhyay) is my favorite, he went length and breadth > of India on foot. He travelled to Tibet twice and his commitment for > social service was beyond ordinary. One particular thing that really > amazed me is how he was relying on God for his next meal while he > was traveling in India, he never carried any money and he was just > in his early 20's. There is a short book describing his experiences > while he was traveling through Himalayas on foot, " In the Lap of > Himalayas " . Again, words cannot describe essence of this book. > > > > Aum > > Avinash > > > > > > > > > > Mary Ann <buttercookie61@> > > Ammachi > > Saturday, June 9, 2007 9:16:40 PM > > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I appreciate this story in that Sri Ramakrishna might > have had what he > > > > considered his students' best interests at heart, but in at least > the > > > > first case, his advice ... well, better that the student followed > his > > > > own nature. In the second case ... loyalty to one's " guru " at the > > > > expense of others' lives is what drives airplanes into buildings, > etc. > > > > These two stories together form a picture worth sharing further > with > > > > Amma. Is there a book that includes both? They are worthy of more > > > > discourse. > > > > > > > > Amma's own advice is that it isn't necessary to have faith in God, > or > > > > in Amma, but in oneself. One must have faith in oneself in order to > > > > have the confidence to live according to one's spiritual > principles in > > > > this world. http://www.amritapu ri.org/teachings /qualities/ > faith.php > > > > In light of Amma's advice, I interpret these stories this way, but > > > > also have a concern: > > > > > > > > In the first example, the student followed his own " faith, " > trusted in > > > > his own heart's calling. In the second, the student did not follow > his > > > > faith, but rather, got off-track due to others' responses. As Amma > has > > > > said, " If we do not cultivate true detachment, our happiness will > lie > > > > at the tips of others' tongues. " Yet, in the case of the first > > > > student, could it not be said that the guru was directing the > student > > > > much like Arjuna was directed in the Bhagavad Gita to allow or take > > > > part in killing as a means to realizing that there is something > > > > greater than physical embodiment? My concern with this view is that > > > > folks can wind up nailing someone up on a cross -- figuratively, if > > > > not literally in this day and age -- or wind others up to crashing > > > > into buildings for God, guru, or state. > > > > > > > > When the " I " becomes the " i " and then becomes the " I " (I'm quoting > an > > > > AmmaBhakti group member), then no threatening of the boat > passengers' > > > > lives or crashing into buildings is necessary, though many times > due > > > > to ignorance humans are killed for living in accordance with their > > > > faith (Jesus, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., etc.). > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, avinash ramidi <avinash7_99@ ...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ONS, > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna gave different advice to different people based > on > > > > their temperaments. Best examples given were Swami Yogananda (Jogen > > > > Roy Choudhury) and Swami Niranjananada (Nithya Niranjan Ghosh). > > > > > > > > > > Jogen was extremely kind hearted, in fact Sri Ramakrishna was so > > > > worried about his kindness that he thought it would become an > > > > impediment for spiritual progress. One day, Sri Ramakrishna while > > > > cleaning his room found cockroach, Jogen was present there. Sri > > > > Ramakrishna asked Jogen to kill the cockroach. Jogen took the roach > > > > outside but let it go. When he returned, Sri Ramakrishna asked if > he > > > > killed the roach, Jogen answered in negative, Sri Ramakrishna > rebuked > > > > Jogen for not listening to master and acting according to his own > > > > will. Sri Ramakrishna was trying to mold Jogen's nature. > > > > > > > > > > On adifferent day, Jogen was on his way to Dakshineshwar to see > Sri > > > > Ramakrishna in a boat (in Ganges river), his fellow passengers > started > > > > bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna , they wouldn't stop. Jogen being > soft > > > > natured didn't uttered a word, later he conveyed the scenario to > Sr > > > > Ramakrishna. Sri Ramakrishna rebuked Jogen and said he should have > > > > protested and a disciple should always defend his guru. > > > > > > > > > > Niranjan's nature was exactly opposite to Jogen. Niranjan was > broad > > > > chested with athletic physique and had violent temper. On a > particular > > > > day he was on his way to Dakshineshwar in a boat, his fellow > > > > passengers started bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna. Niranjan > protested, > > > > but they wouldn't budge. Niranjan jumped into water (he was adept > in > > > > swimming) and started rocking the boat. He wanted to sink the boat > so > > > > everybody could get drowned. People started to cry and asked for > his > > > > forgiveness, eventually Niranjan relented. Later he informed this > > > > scenario to Sri Ramakrishna, master was absolutely not pleased with > > > > Niranjan's behavior. He told Niranjan never to behave like that > > > > again, and advised him to be satvic. > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramkrishna was advising differently to different people > based > > > > on their nature. > > > > > > > > > > Aum > > > > > Avinash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > faintglow <faintglow@ ..> > > > > > Ammachi@ .com > > > > > Friday, June 8, 2007 10:11:03 PM > > > > > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recall a couple of such stories from my ancient reading of the > SRK > > > > > > > > > > literature. Once Sri Ramakrishna advised someone not to kill > mosquitos > > > > > > > > > > and another time He was spotted trying to swat them in His room. > The > > > > > > > > > > same with cockroaches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contradictions are quite common, with Mahatmas, as with life in > general. > > > > > > > > > > Context usually dominates, but generality has value if you can > isolate > > > > > > > > > > it. Now there is a contradiction! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fg/hw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, " Prashanti " > <ammasprashanti@ ...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Amriteswaryai Namah, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forgive my partial rendering of this thought-provoking > exchange. But I > > > > > > > > > > > wanted to share a bit of an experience from Mother's visit to > San > > > > > > > > > > Ramon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night, between the satsang and bhajans, Amma took a > question from > > > > > > > > > > Her > > > > > > > > > > > children. A daughter asked for explanation of, or insight > into, an > > > > > > > > > > anecdote > > > > > > > > > > > she had recently heard about Ramakrishna. According to the > account she > > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > read, once Sri Ramakrishna had told a devotee to take a > cockroach > > > > > > > > > > outside > > > > > > > > > > > and kill it. The devotee could not, he just let it go or > something, > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > when he came back to the Guru, He scolded the disciple and > said " You > > > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > > have killed the cockroach. " The daughter wondered if Amma > could help > > > > > > > > > > > explain that story to us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma replied that she did not think a Mahatma would give such > > > > > > > > > > instructions. > > > > > > > > > > > She couldn't believe it happened that way. (She asked the > daughter > > > > > > > > > > where she > > > > > > > > > > > had read it, and repeated several times Her sense that it > seemed > > > > > > > > > > unlikely > > > > > > > > > > > that a Mahatma would tell a disciple to injure a harmless > creature.) > > > > > > > > > > IF it > > > > > > > > > > > did happen like that, perhaps it was a test of the disciple's > > > > > > > > > > maturity. > > > > > > > > > > > That Ramakrishna might have been testing his disciple, to see > if he > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > obey unquestioningly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (And then came a lovely bit of insight about the way a chela > matures, > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > that we should use our discriminative powers to attend to the > meaning > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > significance behind the Guru's words / instructions / > actions.) Mother > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > made a funny joke about how She understands that many of her > western > > > > > > > > > > > children are afraid of cockroaches! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But above all, from this daughter's perspective, Amma > emphasized that > > > > > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > > > > > very difficult to answer such questions, because of the way > spiritual > > > > > > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > > > > > > is diluted as stories are told over and over and over > again. " In > > > > > > > > > > today's > > > > > > > > > > > world people will hear one thing and say it another way and so > on... " > > > > > > > > > > Each > > > > > > > > > > > person adds a little water, so to speak, and then it is like a > game of > > > > > > > > > > > whisper-down- the-alley or telephone, and the truth becomes > distorted > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > diluted and things are lost. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devotees relate their interpretation of a story according to > their own > > > > > > > > > > > understanding and maturity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, once the world was suffering with drought and war > and > > > > > > > > > > illness > > > > > > > > > > > and such things. The humans, asuras, and devas went to Father > Brahma, > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > Creator, to ask for his help. Lord Brahma was in deep > meditation, and > > > > > > > > > > > simply uttered one syllable in response to his children's > pleas: " DA. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The humans heard that single syllable DA and thought, " He must > mean [a > > > > > > > > > > > sanskrit word sounded like danam] charity " or to give away and > share > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > others. Because humans were not sharing with each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The demons heard that single syllable DA and thought it > meant " DAYA, " > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > kindness. Because their nature was cruelty and they " needed " > to be > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the devas, who were indulgers and hedonists, heard that > single > > > > > > > > > > syllable > > > > > > > > > > > DA and thought it must mean [not sure of the word] to practice > > > > > > > > > > restraint. > > > > > > > > > > > Because they needed to control their sense organs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The implication being that each one interprets it differently > > > > > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > his own desires and according to his own maturity. So we must > be > > > > > > > > > > attentive > > > > > > > > > > > to understanding the true signficance of an instruction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma gave a number of other illustrations of the subtle > distinctions > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > dharma and the significance of the Guru's every word and > action, and > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > importance of proper understanding, but I did not write them > down. To > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > DAughter, having heard Amma emphasize the syllable DA the day > before, > > > > > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > > > > > so beautiful to be given more instructions about how much our > minds > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > samskaras shape our interpretation of " what is going down " at > any > > > > > > > > > > given > > > > > > > > > > > moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There was also another brief question that Mother said She > would > > > > > > > > > > answer on > > > > > > > > > > > another day, a devotee from perhaps Deutschelande, asked for > Mother's > > > > > > > > > > core > > > > > > > > > > > message to the young parents attending and to the teachers of > the > > > > > > > > > > world. > > > > > > > > > > > Mother said it was a very good question, and to give a one word > > > > > > > > > > answer: > > > > > > > > > > > COMPASSION. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope you are all well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > > Prashanti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 namaste, amma says that this life on earth is a very small part of the Total Life, so it's hard and really impossible to understand the whole from a small part especially with only the intellect that is why, faith and trust gained from spiritual experiences and contemplating the lives and teachings of the sages are needed om amma, amarnath Ammachi , " Mary Ann " <buttercookie61 wrote: > > This is a sad story. It reminds me of Amma's advice that sitting in a > sinking boat praying isn't enough; we need to try to plug the hole. At > the same time, to be mindful of genuine dangers, and not foolhardily > pretend that such dangers will not apply to us. This came up on this > list recently when someone posted about having love and compassion but > working with sociopaths, for whom receiving love and compassion can > actually enable their pain and pain-causing behavior(s). > > Somehow this example came into my mind: when firemen and women go into > burning buildings, they know the risks. It's part of their job, and > I'm sure many who have survived difficult situations thank God for > that. Yet, they still choose willingly to do their work, knowing there > is a possibility they won't survive. That's kind of what Jesus was > saying, too. And Amma when the knife-wielder attacked. Death may come; > that is not a sign of God's abandonment of anyone. I don't think it's > about karma, either, because although humans view death as a > punishment, that's a limited view of the ego. > > > Ammachi , " faintglow " <faintglow@> wrote: > > > > Avinash, > > > > I've read " They Lived With God " too. It is excellent. > > > > But there are still many things which are hard to figure out. For > > instance there was an instance of two very sincere disciples of Nag > > Mahashay who perished inhaling toxic gases, trying to rescue a boy > > who had fallen into a manhole. While several bystanders stood by > > without moving to help, because they were mindful of the risks, > > these two jumped in with the declared belief that their Guru (Sri > > NM) would protect them in their worthy cause. When Sri Nag Mahashay > > heard the news he was of course highly saddened, but that does not > > explain why his disciples' faith in him failed to pay off in the > > conventional way. Of course, it is possible to solve this problem by > > invoking karma and an after-life but that seems like a cop-out, > > intellectually speaking. > > > > fg/hw > > > > Ammachi , avinash ramidi <avinash7_99@> > > wrote: > > > > > > ONS Mary Ann, > > > > > > The book I was referring here was " GOD LIVED WITH THEM " , Life > > Stories of Sixteen Monastic Disciples of Sri Ramakrishna, By Swami > > Chetanananda. > > > > > > This is an amazing book, detailing biographies of people who > > renounced the world in late teens and early twenties. When people > > hear about Sri Ramakrishna, they only think about Swami Vivekananda, > > but there are other 15 monastic disciples who are as incredible. I > > felt that these people are from different plain altogehther, seeking > > adventure in monasticism. Particularly Swami Akhandananda > > (Gangadhar Gangopadhyay) is my favorite, he went length and breadth > > of India on foot. He travelled to Tibet twice and his commitment for > > social service was beyond ordinary. One particular thing that really > > amazed me is how he was relying on God for his next meal while he > > was traveling in India, he never carried any money and he was just > > in his early 20's. There is a short book describing his experiences > > while he was traveling through Himalayas on foot, " In the Lap of > > Himalayas " . Again, words cannot describe essence of this book. > > > > > > Aum > > > Avinash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mary Ann <buttercookie61@> > > > Ammachi > > > Saturday, June 9, 2007 9:16:40 PM > > > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I appreciate this story in that Sri Ramakrishna might > > have had what he > > > > > > considered his students' best interests at heart, but in at least > > the > > > > > > first case, his advice ... well, better that the student followed > > his > > > > > > own nature. In the second case ... loyalty to one's " guru " at the > > > > > > expense of others' lives is what drives airplanes into buildings, > > etc. > > > > > > These two stories together form a picture worth sharing further > > with > > > > > > Amma. Is there a book that includes both? They are worthy of more > > > > > > discourse. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma's own advice is that it isn't necessary to have faith in God, > > or > > > > > > in Amma, but in oneself. One must have faith in oneself in order to > > > > > > have the confidence to live according to one's spiritual > > principles in > > > > > > this world. http://www.amritapu ri.org/teachings /qualities/ > > faith.php > > > > > > In light of Amma's advice, I interpret these stories this way, but > > > > > > also have a concern: > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first example, the student followed his own " faith, " > > trusted in > > > > > > his own heart's calling. In the second, the student did not follow > > his > > > > > > faith, but rather, got off-track due to others' responses. As Amma > > has > > > > > > said, " If we do not cultivate true detachment, our happiness will > > lie > > > > > > at the tips of others' tongues. " Yet, in the case of the first > > > > > > student, could it not be said that the guru was directing the > > student > > > > > > much like Arjuna was directed in the Bhagavad Gita to allow or take > > > > > > part in killing as a means to realizing that there is something > > > > > > greater than physical embodiment? My concern with this view is that > > > > > > folks can wind up nailing someone up on a cross -- figuratively, if > > > > > > not literally in this day and age -- or wind others up to crashing > > > > > > into buildings for God, guru, or state. > > > > > > > > > > > > When the " I " becomes the " i " and then becomes the " I " (I'm quoting > > an > > > > > > AmmaBhakti group member), then no threatening of the boat > > passengers' > > > > > > lives or crashing into buildings is necessary, though many times > > due > > > > > > to ignorance humans are killed for living in accordance with their > > > > > > faith (Jesus, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., etc.). > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, avinash ramidi <avinash7_99@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ONS, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna gave different advice to different people based > > on > > > > > > their temperaments. Best examples given were Swami Yogananda (Jogen > > > > > > Roy Choudhury) and Swami Niranjananada (Nithya Niranjan Ghosh). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jogen was extremely kind hearted, in fact Sri Ramakrishna was so > > > > > > worried about his kindness that he thought it would become an > > > > > > impediment for spiritual progress. One day, Sri Ramakrishna while > > > > > > cleaning his room found cockroach, Jogen was present there. Sri > > > > > > Ramakrishna asked Jogen to kill the cockroach. Jogen took the roach > > > > > > outside but let it go. When he returned, Sri Ramakrishna asked if > > he > > > > > > killed the roach, Jogen answered in negative, Sri Ramakrishna > > rebuked > > > > > > Jogen for not listening to master and acting according to his own > > > > > > will. Sri Ramakrishna was trying to mold Jogen's nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On adifferent day, Jogen was on his way to Dakshineshwar to see > > Sri > > > > > > Ramakrishna in a boat (in Ganges river), his fellow passengers > > started > > > > > > bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna , they wouldn't stop. Jogen being > > soft > > > > > > natured didn't uttered a word, later he conveyed the scenario to > > Sr > > > > > > Ramakrishna. Sri Ramakrishna rebuked Jogen and said he should have > > > > > > protested and a disciple should always defend his guru. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Niranjan's nature was exactly opposite to Jogen. Niranjan was > > broad > > > > > > chested with athletic physique and had violent temper. On a > > particular > > > > > > day he was on his way to Dakshineshwar in a boat, his fellow > > > > > > passengers started bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna. Niranjan > > protested, > > > > > > but they wouldn't budge. Niranjan jumped into water (he was adept > > in > > > > > > swimming) and started rocking the boat. He wanted to sink the boat > > so > > > > > > everybody could get drowned. People started to cry and asked for > > his > > > > > > forgiveness, eventually Niranjan relented. Later he informed this > > > > > > scenario to Sri Ramakrishna, master was absolutely not pleased with > > > > > > Niranjan's behavior. He told Niranjan never to behave like that > > > > > > again, and advised him to be satvic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramkrishna was advising differently to different people > > based > > > > > > on their nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aum > > > > > > > Avinash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > faintglow <faintglow@ ..> > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com > > > > > > > Friday, June 8, 2007 10:11:03 PM > > > > > > > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recall a couple of such stories from my ancient reading of the > > SRK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > literature. Once Sri Ramakrishna advised someone not to kill > > mosquitos > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and another time He was spotted trying to swat them in His room. > > The > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same with cockroaches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contradictions are quite common, with Mahatmas, as with life in > > general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Context usually dominates, but generality has value if you can > > isolate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it. Now there is a contradiction! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fg/hw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, " Prashanti " > > <ammasprashanti@ ...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Amriteswaryai Namah, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forgive my partial rendering of this thought-provoking > > exchange. But I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wanted to share a bit of an experience from Mother's visit to > > San > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night, between the satsang and bhajans, Amma took a > > question from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Her > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > children. A daughter asked for explanation of, or insight > > into, an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anecdote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > she had recently heard about Ramakrishna. According to the > > account she > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read, once Sri Ramakrishna had told a devotee to take a > > cockroach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > outside > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and kill it. The devotee could not, he just let it go or > > something, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when he came back to the Guru, He scolded the disciple and > > said " You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have killed the cockroach. " The daughter wondered if Amma > > could help > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > explain that story to us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma replied that she did not think a Mahatma would give such > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instructions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She couldn't believe it happened that way. (She asked the > > daughter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where she > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had read it, and repeated several times Her sense that it > > seemed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unlikely > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that a Mahatma would tell a disciple to injure a harmless > > creature.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IF it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did happen like that, perhaps it was a test of the disciple's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > maturity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That Ramakrishna might have been testing his disciple, to see > > if he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > obey unquestioningly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (And then came a lovely bit of insight about the way a chela > > matures, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that we should use our discriminative powers to attend to the > > meaning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > significance behind the Guru's words / instructions / > > actions.) Mother > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > made a funny joke about how She understands that many of her > > western > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > children are afraid of cockroaches! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But above all, from this daughter's perspective, Amma > > emphasized that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very difficult to answer such questions, because of the way > > spiritual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is diluted as stories are told over and over and over > > again. " In > > > > > > > > > > > > > > today's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > world people will hear one thing and say it another way and so > > on... " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person adds a little water, so to speak, and then it is like a > > game of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whisper-down- the-alley or telephone, and the truth becomes > > distorted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diluted and things are lost. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devotees relate their interpretation of a story according to > > their own > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > understanding and maturity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, once the world was suffering with drought and war > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > illness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and such things. The humans, asuras, and devas went to Father > > Brahma, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creator, to ask for his help. Lord Brahma was in deep > > meditation, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > simply uttered one syllable in response to his children's > > pleas: " DA. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The humans heard that single syllable DA and thought, " He must > > mean [a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sanskrit word sounded like danam] charity " or to give away and > > share > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others. Because humans were not sharing with each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The demons heard that single syllable DA and thought it > > meant " DAYA, " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kindness. Because their nature was cruelty and they " needed " > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the devas, who were indulgers and hedonists, heard that > > single > > > > > > > > > > > > > > syllable > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DA and thought it must mean [not sure of the word] to practice > > > > > > > > > > > > > > restraint. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they needed to control their sense organs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The implication being that each one interprets it differently > > > > > > > > > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his own desires and according to his own maturity. So we must > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > attentive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to understanding the true signficance of an instruction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma gave a number of other illustrations of the subtle > > distinctions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dharma and the significance of the Guru's every word and > > action, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > importance of proper understanding, but I did not write them > > down. To > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DAughter, having heard Amma emphasize the syllable DA the day > > before, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so beautiful to be given more instructions about how much our > > minds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > samskaras shape our interpretation of " what is going down " at > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There was also another brief question that Mother said She > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > answer on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > another day, a devotee from perhaps Deutschelande, asked for > > Mother's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > core > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > message to the young parents attending and to the teachers of > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother said it was a very good question, and to give a one word > > > > > > > > > > > > > > answer: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPASSION. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope you are all well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashanti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 fyi.... " They Lived with God " and " God lived with them " are 2 different books. both around Sri RamaKrishna. one writen by M, and the other written by the Swami that Avinash referred to. Jai Ma! Ammachi , " faintglow " <faintglow wrote: > > Avinash, > > I've read " They Lived With God " too. It is excellent. > > But there are still many things which are hard to figure out. For > instance there was an instance of two very sincere disciples of Nag > Mahashay who perished inhaling toxic gases, trying to rescue a boy > who had fallen into a manhole. While several bystanders stood by > without moving to help, because they were mindful of the risks, > these two jumped in with the declared belief that their Guru (Sri > NM) would protect them in their worthy cause. When Sri Nag Mahashay > heard the news he was of course highly saddened, but that does not > explain why his disciples' faith in him failed to pay off in the > conventional way. Of course, it is possible to solve this problem by > invoking karma and an after-life but that seems like a cop-out, > intellectually speaking. > > fg/hw > > Ammachi , avinash ramidi <avinash7_99@> > wrote: > > > > ONS Mary Ann, > > > > The book I was referring here was " GOD LIVED WITH THEM " , Life > Stories of Sixteen Monastic Disciples of Sri Ramakrishna, By Swami > Chetanananda. > > > > This is an amazing book, detailing biographies of people who > renounced the world in late teens and early twenties. When people > hear about Sri Ramakrishna, they only think about Swami Vivekananda, > but there are other 15 monastic disciples who are as incredible. I > felt that these people are from different plain altogehther, seeking > adventure in monasticism. Particularly Swami Akhandananda > (Gangadhar Gangopadhyay) is my favorite, he went length and breadth > of India on foot. He travelled to Tibet twice and his commitment for > social service was beyond ordinary. One particular thing that really > amazed me is how he was relying on God for his next meal while he > was traveling in India, he never carried any money and he was just > in his early 20's. There is a short book describing his experiences > while he was traveling through Himalayas on foot, " In the Lap of > Himalayas " . Again, words cannot describe essence of this book. > > > > Aum > > Avinash > > > > > > > > > > Mary Ann <buttercookie61@> > > Ammachi > > Saturday, June 9, 2007 9:16:40 PM > > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I appreciate this story in that Sri Ramakrishna might > have had what he > > > > considered his students' best interests at heart, but in at least > the > > > > first case, his advice ... well, better that the student followed > his > > > > own nature. In the second case ... loyalty to one's " guru " at the > > > > expense of others' lives is what drives airplanes into buildings, > etc. > > > > These two stories together form a picture worth sharing further > with > > > > Amma. Is there a book that includes both? They are worthy of more > > > > discourse. > > > > > > > > Amma's own advice is that it isn't necessary to have faith in God, > or > > > > in Amma, but in oneself. One must have faith in oneself in order to > > > > have the confidence to live according to one's spiritual > principles in > > > > this world. http://www.amritapu ri.org/teachings /qualities/ > faith.php > > > > In light of Amma's advice, I interpret these stories this way, but > > > > also have a concern: > > > > > > > > In the first example, the student followed his own " faith, " > trusted in > > > > his own heart's calling. In the second, the student did not follow > his > > > > faith, but rather, got off-track due to others' responses. As Amma > has > > > > said, " If we do not cultivate true detachment, our happiness will > lie > > > > at the tips of others' tongues. " Yet, in the case of the first > > > > student, could it not be said that the guru was directing the > student > > > > much like Arjuna was directed in the Bhagavad Gita to allow or take > > > > part in killing as a means to realizing that there is something > > > > greater than physical embodiment? My concern with this view is that > > > > folks can wind up nailing someone up on a cross -- figuratively, if > > > > not literally in this day and age -- or wind others up to crashing > > > > into buildings for God, guru, or state. > > > > > > > > When the " I " becomes the " i " and then becomes the " I " (I'm quoting > an > > > > AmmaBhakti group member), then no threatening of the boat > passengers' > > > > lives or crashing into buildings is necessary, though many times > due > > > > to ignorance humans are killed for living in accordance with their > > > > faith (Jesus, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., etc.). > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, avinash ramidi <avinash7_99@ ...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ONS, > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna gave different advice to different people based > on > > > > their temperaments. Best examples given were Swami Yogananda (Jogen > > > > Roy Choudhury) and Swami Niranjananada (Nithya Niranjan Ghosh). > > > > > > > > > > Jogen was extremely kind hearted, in fact Sri Ramakrishna was so > > > > worried about his kindness that he thought it would become an > > > > impediment for spiritual progress. One day, Sri Ramakrishna while > > > > cleaning his room found cockroach, Jogen was present there. Sri > > > > Ramakrishna asked Jogen to kill the cockroach. Jogen took the roach > > > > outside but let it go. When he returned, Sri Ramakrishna asked if > he > > > > killed the roach, Jogen answered in negative, Sri Ramakrishna > rebuked > > > > Jogen for not listening to master and acting according to his own > > > > will. Sri Ramakrishna was trying to mold Jogen's nature. > > > > > > > > > > On adifferent day, Jogen was on his way to Dakshineshwar to see > Sri > > > > Ramakrishna in a boat (in Ganges river), his fellow passengers > started > > > > bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna , they wouldn't stop. Jogen being > soft > > > > natured didn't uttered a word, later he conveyed the scenario to > Sr > > > > Ramakrishna. Sri Ramakrishna rebuked Jogen and said he should have > > > > protested and a disciple should always defend his guru. > > > > > > > > > > Niranjan's nature was exactly opposite to Jogen. Niranjan was > broad > > > > chested with athletic physique and had violent temper. On a > particular > > > > day he was on his way to Dakshineshwar in a boat, his fellow > > > > passengers started bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna. Niranjan > protested, > > > > but they wouldn't budge. Niranjan jumped into water (he was adept > in > > > > swimming) and started rocking the boat. He wanted to sink the boat > so > > > > everybody could get drowned. People started to cry and asked for > his > > > > forgiveness, eventually Niranjan relented. Later he informed this > > > > scenario to Sri Ramakrishna, master was absolutely not pleased with > > > > Niranjan's behavior. He told Niranjan never to behave like that > > > > again, and advised him to be satvic. > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramkrishna was advising differently to different people > based > > > > on their nature. > > > > > > > > > > Aum > > > > > Avinash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > faintglow <faintglow@ ..> > > > > > Ammachi@ .com > > > > > Friday, June 8, 2007 10:11:03 PM > > > > > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recall a couple of such stories from my ancient reading of the > SRK > > > > > > > > > > literature. Once Sri Ramakrishna advised someone not to kill > mosquitos > > > > > > > > > > and another time He was spotted trying to swat them in His room. > The > > > > > > > > > > same with cockroaches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contradictions are quite common, with Mahatmas, as with life in > general. > > > > > > > > > > Context usually dominates, but generality has value if you can > isolate > > > > > > > > > > it. Now there is a contradiction! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fg/hw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, " Prashanti " > <ammasprashanti@ ...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Amriteswaryai Namah, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forgive my partial rendering of this thought-provoking > exchange. But I > > > > > > > > > > > wanted to share a bit of an experience from Mother's visit to > San > > > > > > > > > > Ramon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night, between the satsang and bhajans, Amma took a > question from > > > > > > > > > > Her > > > > > > > > > > > children. A daughter asked for explanation of, or insight > into, an > > > > > > > > > > anecdote > > > > > > > > > > > she had recently heard about Ramakrishna. According to the > account she > > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > read, once Sri Ramakrishna had told a devotee to take a > cockroach > > > > > > > > > > outside > > > > > > > > > > > and kill it. The devotee could not, he just let it go or > something, > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > when he came back to the Guru, He scolded the disciple and > said " You > > > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > > have killed the cockroach. " The daughter wondered if Amma > could help > > > > > > > > > > > explain that story to us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma replied that she did not think a Mahatma would give such > > > > > > > > > > instructions. > > > > > > > > > > > She couldn't believe it happened that way. (She asked the > daughter > > > > > > > > > > where she > > > > > > > > > > > had read it, and repeated several times Her sense that it > seemed > > > > > > > > > > unlikely > > > > > > > > > > > that a Mahatma would tell a disciple to injure a harmless > creature.) > > > > > > > > > > IF it > > > > > > > > > > > did happen like that, perhaps it was a test of the disciple's > > > > > > > > > > maturity. > > > > > > > > > > > That Ramakrishna might have been testing his disciple, to see > if he > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > obey unquestioningly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (And then came a lovely bit of insight about the way a chela > matures, > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > that we should use our discriminative powers to attend to the > meaning > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > significance behind the Guru's words / instructions / > actions.) Mother > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > made a funny joke about how She understands that many of her > western > > > > > > > > > > > children are afraid of cockroaches! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But above all, from this daughter's perspective, Amma > emphasized that > > > > > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > > > > > very difficult to answer such questions, because of the way > spiritual > > > > > > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > > > > > > is diluted as stories are told over and over and over > again. " In > > > > > > > > > > today's > > > > > > > > > > > world people will hear one thing and say it another way and so > on... " > > > > > > > > > > Each > > > > > > > > > > > person adds a little water, so to speak, and then it is like a > game of > > > > > > > > > > > whisper-down- the-alley or telephone, and the truth becomes > distorted > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > diluted and things are lost. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devotees relate their interpretation of a story according to > their own > > > > > > > > > > > understanding and maturity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, once the world was suffering with drought and war > and > > > > > > > > > > illness > > > > > > > > > > > and such things. The humans, asuras, and devas went to Father > Brahma, > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > Creator, to ask for his help. Lord Brahma was in deep > meditation, and > > > > > > > > > > > simply uttered one syllable in response to his children's > pleas: " DA. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The humans heard that single syllable DA and thought, " He must > mean [a > > > > > > > > > > > sanskrit word sounded like danam] charity " or to give away and > share > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > others. Because humans were not sharing with each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The demons heard that single syllable DA and thought it > meant " DAYA, " > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > kindness. Because their nature was cruelty and they " needed " > to be > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the devas, who were indulgers and hedonists, heard that > single > > > > > > > > > > syllable > > > > > > > > > > > DA and thought it must mean [not sure of the word] to practice > > > > > > > > > > restraint. > > > > > > > > > > > Because they needed to control their sense organs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The implication being that each one interprets it differently > > > > > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > his own desires and according to his own maturity. So we must > be > > > > > > > > > > attentive > > > > > > > > > > > to understanding the true signficance of an instruction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma gave a number of other illustrations of the subtle > distinctions > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > dharma and the significance of the Guru's every word and > action, and > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > importance of proper understanding, but I did not write them > down. To > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > DAughter, having heard Amma emphasize the syllable DA the day > before, > > > > > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > > > > > so beautiful to be given more instructions about how much our > minds > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > samskaras shape our interpretation of " what is going down " at > any > > > > > > > > > > given > > > > > > > > > > > moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There was also another brief question that Mother said She > would > > > > > > > > > > answer on > > > > > > > > > > > another day, a devotee from perhaps Deutschelande, asked for > Mother's > > > > > > > > > > core > > > > > > > > > > > message to the young parents attending and to the teachers of > the > > > > > > > > > > world. > > > > > > > > > > > Mother said it was a very good question, and to give a one word > > > > > > > > > > answer: > > > > > > > > > > > COMPASSION. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope you are all well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > > Prashanti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 Hmm. Did I mix the title up? The book I read was by Swami Chetanananda, I'm pretty sure. Of the title, I'm less sure. Avinash, what is the verdict? Did " They live with God " or did " God live with them " or both, as Manoj suggests? Ammachi , " manoj_menon " <manoj_menon wrote: > > fyi.... > > " They Lived with God " and " God lived with them " are 2 different books. > > both around Sri RamaKrishna. > > one writen by M, and the other written by the Swami that Avinash > referred to. > > Jai Ma! > > > Ammachi , " faintglow " <faintglow@> wrote: > > > > Avinash, > > > > I've read " They Lived With God " too. It is excellent. > > > > But there are still many things which are hard to figure out. For > > instance there was an instance of two very sincere disciples of Nag > > Mahashay who perished inhaling toxic gases, trying to rescue a boy > > who had fallen into a manhole. While several bystanders stood by > > without moving to help, because they were mindful of the risks, > > these two jumped in with the declared belief that their Guru (Sri > > NM) would protect them in their worthy cause. When Sri Nag Mahashay > > heard the news he was of course highly saddened, but that does not > > explain why his disciples' faith in him failed to pay off in the > > conventional way. Of course, it is possible to solve this problem by > > invoking karma and an after-life but that seems like a cop-out, > > intellectually speaking. > > > > fg/hw > > > > Ammachi , avinash ramidi <avinash7_99@> > > wrote: > > > > > > ONS Mary Ann, > > > > > > The book I was referring here was " GOD LIVED WITH THEM " , Life > > Stories of Sixteen Monastic Disciples of Sri Ramakrishna, By Swami > > Chetanananda. > > > > > > This is an amazing book, detailing biographies of people who > > renounced the world in late teens and early twenties. When people > > hear about Sri Ramakrishna, they only think about Swami Vivekananda, > > but there are other 15 monastic disciples who are as incredible. I > > felt that these people are from different plain altogehther, seeking > > adventure in monasticism. Particularly Swami Akhandananda > > (Gangadhar Gangopadhyay) is my favorite, he went length and breadth > > of India on foot. He travelled to Tibet twice and his commitment for > > social service was beyond ordinary. One particular thing that really > > amazed me is how he was relying on God for his next meal while he > > was traveling in India, he never carried any money and he was just > > in his early 20's. There is a short book describing his experiences > > while he was traveling through Himalayas on foot, " In the Lap of > > Himalayas " . Again, words cannot describe essence of this book. > > > > > > Aum > > > Avinash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mary Ann <buttercookie61@> > > > Ammachi > > > Saturday, June 9, 2007 9:16:40 PM > > > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I appreciate this story in that Sri Ramakrishna might > > have had what he > > > > > > considered his students' best interests at heart, but in at least > > the > > > > > > first case, his advice ... well, better that the student followed > > his > > > > > > own nature. In the second case ... loyalty to one's " guru " at the > > > > > > expense of others' lives is what drives airplanes into buildings, > > etc. > > > > > > These two stories together form a picture worth sharing further > > with > > > > > > Amma. Is there a book that includes both? They are worthy of more > > > > > > discourse. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma's own advice is that it isn't necessary to have faith in God, > > or > > > > > > in Amma, but in oneself. One must have faith in oneself in order to > > > > > > have the confidence to live according to one's spiritual > > principles in > > > > > > this world. http://www.amritapu ri.org/teachings /qualities/ > > faith.php > > > > > > In light of Amma's advice, I interpret these stories this way, but > > > > > > also have a concern: > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first example, the student followed his own " faith, " > > trusted in > > > > > > his own heart's calling. In the second, the student did not follow > > his > > > > > > faith, but rather, got off-track due to others' responses. As Amma > > has > > > > > > said, " If we do not cultivate true detachment, our happiness will > > lie > > > > > > at the tips of others' tongues. " Yet, in the case of the first > > > > > > student, could it not be said that the guru was directing the > > student > > > > > > much like Arjuna was directed in the Bhagavad Gita to allow or take > > > > > > part in killing as a means to realizing that there is something > > > > > > greater than physical embodiment? My concern with this view is that > > > > > > folks can wind up nailing someone up on a cross -- figuratively, if > > > > > > not literally in this day and age -- or wind others up to crashing > > > > > > into buildings for God, guru, or state. > > > > > > > > > > > > When the " I " becomes the " i " and then becomes the " I " (I'm quoting > > an > > > > > > AmmaBhakti group member), then no threatening of the boat > > passengers' > > > > > > lives or crashing into buildings is necessary, though many times > > due > > > > > > to ignorance humans are killed for living in accordance with their > > > > > > faith (Jesus, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., etc.). > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, avinash ramidi <avinash7_99@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ONS, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna gave different advice to different people based > > on > > > > > > their temperaments. Best examples given were Swami Yogananda (Jogen > > > > > > Roy Choudhury) and Swami Niranjananada (Nithya Niranjan Ghosh). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jogen was extremely kind hearted, in fact Sri Ramakrishna was so > > > > > > worried about his kindness that he thought it would become an > > > > > > impediment for spiritual progress. One day, Sri Ramakrishna while > > > > > > cleaning his room found cockroach, Jogen was present there. Sri > > > > > > Ramakrishna asked Jogen to kill the cockroach. Jogen took the roach > > > > > > outside but let it go. When he returned, Sri Ramakrishna asked if > > he > > > > > > killed the roach, Jogen answered in negative, Sri Ramakrishna > > rebuked > > > > > > Jogen for not listening to master and acting according to his own > > > > > > will. Sri Ramakrishna was trying to mold Jogen's nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On adifferent day, Jogen was on his way to Dakshineshwar to see > > Sri > > > > > > Ramakrishna in a boat (in Ganges river), his fellow passengers > > started > > > > > > bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna , they wouldn't stop. Jogen being > > soft > > > > > > natured didn't uttered a word, later he conveyed the scenario to > > Sr > > > > > > Ramakrishna. Sri Ramakrishna rebuked Jogen and said he should have > > > > > > protested and a disciple should always defend his guru. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Niranjan's nature was exactly opposite to Jogen. Niranjan was > > broad > > > > > > chested with athletic physique and had violent temper. On a > > particular > > > > > > day he was on his way to Dakshineshwar in a boat, his fellow > > > > > > passengers started bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna. Niranjan > > protested, > > > > > > but they wouldn't budge. Niranjan jumped into water (he was adept > > in > > > > > > swimming) and started rocking the boat. He wanted to sink the boat > > so > > > > > > everybody could get drowned. People started to cry and asked for > > his > > > > > > forgiveness, eventually Niranjan relented. Later he informed this > > > > > > scenario to Sri Ramakrishna, master was absolutely not pleased with > > > > > > Niranjan's behavior. He told Niranjan never to behave like that > > > > > > again, and advised him to be satvic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramkrishna was advising differently to different people > > based > > > > > > on their nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aum > > > > > > > Avinash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > faintglow <faintglow@ ..> > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com > > > > > > > Friday, June 8, 2007 10:11:03 PM > > > > > > > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recall a couple of such stories from my ancient reading of the > > SRK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > literature. Once Sri Ramakrishna advised someone not to kill > > mosquitos > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and another time He was spotted trying to swat them in His room. > > The > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same with cockroaches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contradictions are quite common, with Mahatmas, as with life in > > general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Context usually dominates, but generality has value if you can > > isolate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it. Now there is a contradiction! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fg/hw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, " Prashanti " > > <ammasprashanti@ ...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Amriteswaryai Namah, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forgive my partial rendering of this thought-provoking > > exchange. But I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wanted to share a bit of an experience from Mother's visit to > > San > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night, between the satsang and bhajans, Amma took a > > question from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Her > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > children. A daughter asked for explanation of, or insight > > into, an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anecdote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > she had recently heard about Ramakrishna. According to the > > account she > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read, once Sri Ramakrishna had told a devotee to take a > > cockroach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > outside > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and kill it. The devotee could not, he just let it go or > > something, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when he came back to the Guru, He scolded the disciple and > > said " You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have killed the cockroach. " The daughter wondered if Amma > > could help > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > explain that story to us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma replied that she did not think a Mahatma would give such > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instructions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She couldn't believe it happened that way. (She asked the > > daughter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where she > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had read it, and repeated several times Her sense that it > > seemed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unlikely > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that a Mahatma would tell a disciple to injure a harmless > > creature.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IF it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did happen like that, perhaps it was a test of the disciple's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > maturity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That Ramakrishna might have been testing his disciple, to see > > if he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > obey unquestioningly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (And then came a lovely bit of insight about the way a chela > > matures, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that we should use our discriminative powers to attend to the > > meaning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > significance behind the Guru's words / instructions / > > actions.) Mother > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > made a funny joke about how She understands that many of her > > western > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > children are afraid of cockroaches! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But above all, from this daughter's perspective, Amma > > emphasized that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very difficult to answer such questions, because of the way > > spiritual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is diluted as stories are told over and over and over > > again. " In > > > > > > > > > > > > > > today's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > world people will hear one thing and say it another way and so > > on... " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person adds a little water, so to speak, and then it is like a > > game of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whisper-down- the-alley or telephone, and the truth becomes > > distorted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diluted and things are lost. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devotees relate their interpretation of a story according to > > their own > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > understanding and maturity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, once the world was suffering with drought and war > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > illness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and such things. The humans, asuras, and devas went to Father > > Brahma, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creator, to ask for his help. Lord Brahma was in deep > > meditation, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > simply uttered one syllable in response to his children's > > pleas: " DA. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The humans heard that single syllable DA and thought, " He must > > mean [a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sanskrit word sounded like danam] charity " or to give away and > > share > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others. Because humans were not sharing with each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The demons heard that single syllable DA and thought it > > meant " DAYA, " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kindness. Because their nature was cruelty and they " needed " > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the devas, who were indulgers and hedonists, heard that > > single > > > > > > > > > > > > > > syllable > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DA and thought it must mean [not sure of the word] to practice > > > > > > > > > > > > > > restraint. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they needed to control their sense organs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The implication being that each one interprets it differently > > > > > > > > > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his own desires and according to his own maturity. So we must > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > attentive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to understanding the true signficance of an instruction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma gave a number of other illustrations of the subtle > > distinctions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dharma and the significance of the Guru's every word and > > action, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > importance of proper understanding, but I did not write them > > down. To > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DAughter, having heard Amma emphasize the syllable DA the day > > before, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so beautiful to be given more instructions about how much our > > minds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > samskaras shape our interpretation of " what is going down " at > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There was also another brief question that Mother said She > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > answer on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > another day, a devotee from perhaps Deutschelande, asked for > > Mother's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > core > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > message to the young parents attending and to the teachers of > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother said it was a very good question, and to give a one word > > > > > > > > > > > > > > answer: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPASSION. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope you are all well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashanti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Faintglow and Manoj, These seem to be two distinct books, but written by same author. My understanding is that " They Lived with God " has life stories that includes house holder devotees, while " God Lived With Them " is confined to monastic disciples. Here is the Amazon link containing both books: http://www.amazon.com/They-Lived-God-Devotees-Ramakrishna/dp/0916356612/ref=sr_1\ _24/105-0479632-8980420?ie=UTF8 & s=books & qid=1181602722 & sr=1-24 Aum Avinash faintglow <faintglow Ammachi Monday, June 11, 2007 7:41:20 AM Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 Hmm. Did I mix the title up? The book I read was by Swami Chetanananda, I'm pretty sure. Of the title, I'm less sure. Avinash, what is the verdict? Did " They live with God " or did " God live with them " or both, as Manoj suggests? Ammachi@ .com, " manoj_menon " <manoj_menon@ ...> wrote: > > fyi.... > > " They Lived with God " and " God lived with them " are 2 different books. > > both around Sri RamaKrishna. > > one writen by M, and the other written by the Swami that Avinash > referred to. > > Jai Ma! > > > Ammachi@ .com, " faintglow " <faintglow@> wrote: > > > > Avinash, > > > > I've read " They Lived With God " too. It is excellent. > > > > But there are still many things which are hard to figure out. For > > instance there was an instance of two very sincere disciples of Nag > > Mahashay who perished inhaling toxic gases, trying to rescue a boy > > who had fallen into a manhole. While several bystanders stood by > > without moving to help, because they were mindful of the risks, > > these two jumped in with the declared belief that their Guru (Sri > > NM) would protect them in their worthy cause. When Sri Nag Mahashay > > heard the news he was of course highly saddened, but that does not > > explain why his disciples' faith in him failed to pay off in the > > conventional way. Of course, it is possible to solve this problem by > > invoking karma and an after-life but that seems like a cop-out, > > intellectually speaking. > > > > fg/hw > > > > Ammachi@ .com, avinash ramidi <avinash7_99@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > ONS Mary Ann, > > > > > > The book I was referring here was " GOD LIVED WITH THEM " , Life > > Stories of Sixteen Monastic Disciples of Sri Ramakrishna, By Swami > > Chetanananda. > > > > > > This is an amazing book, detailing biographies of people who > > renounced the world in late teens and early twenties. When people > > hear about Sri Ramakrishna, they only think about Swami Vivekananda, > > but there are other 15 monastic disciples who are as incredible. I > > felt that these people are from different plain altogehther, seeking > > adventure in monasticism. Particularly Swami Akhandananda > > (Gangadhar Gangopadhyay) is my favorite, he went length and breadth > > of India on foot. He travelled to Tibet twice and his commitment for > > social service was beyond ordinary. One particular thing that really > > amazed me is how he was relying on God for his next meal while he > > was traveling in India, he never carried any money and he was just > > in his early 20's. There is a short book describing his experiences > > while he was traveling through Himalayas on foot, " In the Lap of > > Himalayas " . Again, words cannot describe essence of this book. > > > > > > Aum > > > Avinash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mary Ann <buttercookie61@ > > > > Ammachi@ .com > > > Saturday, June 9, 2007 9:16:40 PM > > > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I appreciate this story in that Sri Ramakrishna might > > have had what he > > > > > > considered his students' best interests at heart, but in at least > > the > > > > > > first case, his advice ... well, better that the student followed > > his > > > > > > own nature. In the second case ... loyalty to one's " guru " at the > > > > > > expense of others' lives is what drives airplanes into buildings, > > etc. > > > > > > These two stories together form a picture worth sharing further > > with > > > > > > Amma. Is there a book that includes both? They are worthy of more > > > > > > discourse. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma's own advice is that it isn't necessary to have faith in God, > > or > > > > > > in Amma, but in oneself. One must have faith in oneself in order to > > > > > > have the confidence to live according to one's spiritual > > principles in > > > > > > this world. http://www.amritapu ri.org/teachings /qualities/ > > faith.php > > > > > > In light of Amma's advice, I interpret these stories this way, but > > > > > > also have a concern: > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first example, the student followed his own " faith, " > > trusted in > > > > > > his own heart's calling. In the second, the student did not follow > > his > > > > > > faith, but rather, got off-track due to others' responses. As Amma > > has > > > > > > said, " If we do not cultivate true detachment, our happiness will > > lie > > > > > > at the tips of others' tongues. " Yet, in the case of the first > > > > > > student, could it not be said that the guru was directing the > > student > > > > > > much like Arjuna was directed in the Bhagavad Gita to allow or take > > > > > > part in killing as a means to realizing that there is something > > > > > > greater than physical embodiment? My concern with this view is that > > > > > > folks can wind up nailing someone up on a cross -- figuratively, if > > > > > > not literally in this day and age -- or wind others up to crashing > > > > > > into buildings for God, guru, or state. > > > > > > > > > > > > When the " I " becomes the " i " and then becomes the " I " (I'm quoting > > an > > > > > > AmmaBhakti group member), then no threatening of the boat > > passengers' > > > > > > lives or crashing into buildings is necessary, though many times > > due > > > > > > to ignorance humans are killed for living in accordance with their > > > > > > faith (Jesus, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., etc.). > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, avinash ramidi <avinash7_99@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ONS, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna gave different advice to different people based > > on > > > > > > their temperaments. Best examples given were Swami Yogananda (Jogen > > > > > > Roy Choudhury) and Swami Niranjananada (Nithya Niranjan Ghosh). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jogen was extremely kind hearted, in fact Sri Ramakrishna was so > > > > > > worried about his kindness that he thought it would become an > > > > > > impediment for spiritual progress. One day, Sri Ramakrishna while > > > > > > cleaning his room found cockroach, Jogen was present there. Sri > > > > > > Ramakrishna asked Jogen to kill the cockroach. Jogen took the roach > > > > > > outside but let it go. When he returned, Sri Ramakrishna asked if > > he > > > > > > killed the roach, Jogen answered in negative, Sri Ramakrishna > > rebuked > > > > > > Jogen for not listening to master and acting according to his own > > > > > > will. Sri Ramakrishna was trying to mold Jogen's nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On adifferent day, Jogen was on his way to Dakshineshwar to see > > Sri > > > > > > Ramakrishna in a boat (in Ganges river), his fellow passengers > > started > > > > > > bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna , they wouldn't stop. Jogen being > > soft > > > > > > natured didn't uttered a word, later he conveyed the scenario to > > Sr > > > > > > Ramakrishna. Sri Ramakrishna rebuked Jogen and said he should have > > > > > > protested and a disciple should always defend his guru. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Niranjan's nature was exactly opposite to Jogen. Niranjan was > > broad > > > > > > chested with athletic physique and had violent temper. On a > > particular > > > > > > day he was on his way to Dakshineshwar in a boat, his fellow > > > > > > passengers started bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna. Niranjan > > protested, > > > > > > but they wouldn't budge. Niranjan jumped into water (he was adept > > in > > > > > > swimming) and started rocking the boat. He wanted to sink the boat > > so > > > > > > everybody could get drowned. People started to cry and asked for > > his > > > > > > forgiveness, eventually Niranjan relented. Later he informed this > > > > > > scenario to Sri Ramakrishna, master was absolutely not pleased with > > > > > > Niranjan's behavior. He told Niranjan never to behave like that > > > > > > again, and advised him to be satvic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramkrishna was advising differently to different people > > based > > > > > > on their nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aum > > > > > > > Avinash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > faintglow <faintglow@ ..> > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com > > > > > > > Friday, June 8, 2007 10:11:03 PM > > > > > > > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recall a couple of such stories from my ancient reading of the > > SRK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > literature. Once Sri Ramakrishna advised someone not to kill > > mosquitos > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and another time He was spotted trying to swat them in His room. > > The > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same with cockroaches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contradictions are quite common, with Mahatmas, as with life in > > general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Context usually dominates, but generality has value if you can > > isolate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it. Now there is a contradiction! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fg/hw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, " Prashanti " > > <ammasprashanti@ ...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Amriteswaryai Namah, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forgive my partial rendering of this thought-provoking > > exchange. But I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wanted to share a bit of an experience from Mother's visit to > > San > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night, between the satsang and bhajans, Amma took a > > question from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Her > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > children. A daughter asked for explanation of, or insight > > into, an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anecdote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > she had recently heard about Ramakrishna. According to the > > account she > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read, once Sri Ramakrishna had told a devotee to take a > > cockroach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > outside > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and kill it. The devotee could not, he just let it go or > > something, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when he came back to the Guru, He scolded the disciple and > > said " You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have killed the cockroach. " The daughter wondered if Amma > > could help > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > explain that story to us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma replied that she did not think a Mahatma would give such > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instructions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She couldn't believe it happened that way. (She asked the > > daughter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where she > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had read it, and repeated several times Her sense that it > > seemed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unlikely > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that a Mahatma would tell a disciple to injure a harmless > > creature.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IF it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did happen like that, perhaps it was a test of the disciple's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > maturity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That Ramakrishna might have been testing his disciple, to see > > if he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > obey unquestioningly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (And then came a lovely bit of insight about the way a chela > > matures, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that we should use our discriminative powers to attend to the > > meaning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > significance behind the Guru's words / instructions / > > actions.) Mother > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > made a funny joke about how She understands that many of her > > western > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > children are afraid of cockroaches! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But above all, from this daughter's perspective, Amma > > emphasized that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very difficult to answer such questions, because of the way > > spiritual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is diluted as stories are told over and over and over > > again. " In > > > > > > > > > > > > > > today's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > world people will hear one thing and say it another way and so > > on... " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person adds a little water, so to speak, and then it is like a > > game of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whisper-down- the-alley or telephone, and the truth becomes > > distorted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diluted and things are lost. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devotees relate their interpretation of a story according to > > their own > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > understanding and maturity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, once the world was suffering with drought and war > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > illness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and such things. The humans, asuras, and devas went to Father > > Brahma, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creator, to ask for his help. Lord Brahma was in deep > > meditation, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > simply uttered one syllable in response to his children's > > pleas: " DA. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The humans heard that single syllable DA and thought, " He must > > mean [a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sanskrit word sounded like danam] charity " or to give away and > > share > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others. Because humans were not sharing with each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The demons heard that single syllable DA and thought it > > meant " DAYA, " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kindness. Because their nature was cruelty and they " needed " > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the devas, who were indulgers and hedonists, heard that > > single > > > > > > > > > > > > > > syllable > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DA and thought it must mean [not sure of the word] to practice > > > > > > > > > > > > > > restraint. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they needed to control their sense organs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The implication being that each one interprets it differently > > > > > > > > > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his own desires and according to his own maturity. So we must > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > attentive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to understanding the true signficance of an instruction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma gave a number of other illustrations of the subtle > > distinctions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dharma and the significance of the Guru's every word and > > action, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > importance of proper understanding, but I did not write them > > down. To > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DAughter, having heard Amma emphasize the syllable DA the day > > before, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so beautiful to be given more instructions about how much our > > minds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > samskaras shape our interpretation of " what is going down " at > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There was also another brief question that Mother said She > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > answer on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > another day, a devotee from perhaps Deutschelande, asked for > > Mother's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > core > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > message to the young parents attending and to the teachers of > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother said it was a very good question, and to give a one word > > > > > > > > > > > > > > answer: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPASSION. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope you are all well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashanti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 You are absoultely right; I just checked google and was about to reply and before that I saw this post. Both books are by the same author Swami Chetanananda. M (for Mahendranath Gupta, aka the Master Mahasya of Yogananda's autobiography), was also one of the householder disciples of Sri RK. He wrote the book " The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna " , another awesome RK classic. sorry for misleading. Jai Ma! Ammachi , avinash ramidi <avinash7_99 wrote: > > Faintglow and Manoj, > > These seem to be two distinct books, but written by same author. My understanding is that " They Lived with God " has life stories that includes house holder devotees, while " God Lived With Them " is confined to monastic disciples. Here is the Amazon link containing both books: > > http://www.amazon.com/They-Lived-God-Devotees-Ramakrishna/dp/0916356612/ref=sr_1\ _24/105-0479632-8980420?ie=UTF8 & s=books & qid=1181602722 & sr=1-24 > > > Aum > Avinash > > > > faintglow <faintglow > Ammachi > Monday, June 11, 2007 7:41:20 AM > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > Hmm. Did I mix the title up? The book I read was by Swami > > Chetanananda, I'm pretty sure. Of the title, I'm less sure. > > > > Avinash, what is the verdict? Did " They live with God " or did " God > > live with them " or both, as Manoj suggests? > > > > Ammachi@ .com, " manoj_menon " <manoj_menon@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > fyi.... > > > > > > " They Lived with God " and " God lived with them " are 2 different > > books. > > > > > > both around Sri RamaKrishna. > > > > > > one writen by M, and the other written by the Swami that Avinash > > > referred to. > > > > > > Jai Ma! > > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, " faintglow " <faintglow@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Avinash, > > > > > > > > I've read " They Lived With God " too. It is excellent. > > > > > > > > But there are still many things which are hard to figure out. > > For > > > > instance there was an instance of two very sincere disciples of > > Nag > > > > Mahashay who perished inhaling toxic gases, trying to rescue a > > boy > > > > who had fallen into a manhole. While several bystanders stood by > > > > without moving to help, because they were mindful of the risks, > > > > these two jumped in with the declared belief that their Guru > > (Sri > > > > NM) would protect them in their worthy cause. When Sri Nag > > Mahashay > > > > heard the news he was of course highly saddened, but that does > > not > > > > explain why his disciples' faith in him failed to pay off in the > > > > conventional way. Of course, it is possible to solve this > > problem by > > > > invoking karma and an after-life but that seems like a cop-out, > > > > intellectually speaking. > > > > > > > > fg/hw > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, avinash ramidi <avinash7_99@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ONS Mary Ann, > > > > > > > > > > The book I was referring here was " GOD LIVED WITH THEM " , Life > > > > Stories of Sixteen Monastic Disciples of Sri Ramakrishna, By > > Swami > > > > Chetanananda. > > > > > > > > > > This is an amazing book, detailing biographies of people who > > > > renounced the world in late teens and early twenties. When > > people > > > > hear about Sri Ramakrishna, they only think about Swami > > Vivekananda, > > > > but there are other 15 monastic disciples who are as > > incredible. I > > > > felt that these people are from different plain altogehther, > > seeking > > > > adventure in monasticism. Particularly Swami Akhandananda > > > > (Gangadhar Gangopadhyay) is my favorite, he went length and > > breadth > > > > of India on foot. He travelled to Tibet twice and his commitment > > for > > > > social service was beyond ordinary. One particular thing that > > really > > > > amazed me is how he was relying on God for his next meal while > > he > > > > was traveling in India, he never carried any money and he was > > just > > > > in his early 20's. There is a short book describing his > > experiences > > > > while he was traveling through Himalayas on foot, " In the Lap > > of > > > > Himalayas " . Again, words cannot describe essence of this book. > > > > > > > > > > Aum > > > > > Avinash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mary Ann <buttercookie61@ > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com > > > > > Saturday, June 9, 2007 9:16:40 PM > > > > > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I appreciate this story in that Sri Ramakrishna > > might > > > > have had what he > > > > > > > > > > considered his students' best interests at heart, but in at > > least > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > first case, his advice ... well, better that the student > > followed > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > own nature. In the second case ... loyalty to one's " guru " at > > the > > > > > > > > > > expense of others' lives is what drives airplanes into > > buildings, > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > These two stories together form a picture worth sharing > > further > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > Amma. Is there a book that includes both? They are worthy of > > more > > > > > > > > > > discourse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma's own advice is that it isn't necessary to have faith in > > God, > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > in Amma, but in oneself. One must have faith in oneself in > > order to > > > > > > > > > > have the confidence to live according to one's spiritual > > > > principles in > > > > > > > > > > this world. http://www.amritapu ri.org/teachings /qualities/ > > > > faith.php > > > > > > > > > > In light of Amma's advice, I interpret these stories this way, > > but > > > > > > > > > > also have a concern: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first example, the student followed his own " faith, " > > > > trusted in > > > > > > > > > > his own heart's calling. In the second, the student did not > > follow > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > faith, but rather, got off-track due to others' responses. As > > Amma > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > said, " If we do not cultivate true detachment, our happiness > > will > > > > lie > > > > > > > > > > at the tips of others' tongues. " Yet, in the case of the first > > > > > > > > > > student, could it not be said that the guru was directing the > > > > student > > > > > > > > > > much like Arjuna was directed in the Bhagavad Gita to allow or > > take > > > > > > > > > > part in killing as a means to realizing that there is something > > > > > > > > > > greater than physical embodiment? My concern with this view is > > that > > > > > > > > > > folks can wind up nailing someone up on a cross -- > > figuratively, if > > > > > > > > > > not literally in this day and age -- or wind others up to > > crashing > > > > > > > > > > into buildings for God, guru, or state. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the " I " becomes the " i " and then becomes the " I " (I'm > > quoting > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > AmmaBhakti group member), then no threatening of the boat > > > > passengers' > > > > > > > > > > lives or crashing into buildings is necessary, though many > > times > > > > due > > > > > > > > > > to ignorance humans are killed for living in accordance with > > their > > > > > > > > > > faith (Jesus, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., etc.). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, avinash ramidi > > <avinash7_99@ ...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ONS, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna gave different advice to different people > > based > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > their temperaments. Best examples given were Swami Yogananda > > (Jogen > > > > > > > > > > Roy Choudhury) and Swami Niranjananada (Nithya Niranjan Ghosh). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jogen was extremely kind hearted, in fact Sri Ramakrishna > > was so > > > > > > > > > > worried about his kindness that he thought it would become an > > > > > > > > > > impediment for spiritual progress. One day, Sri Ramakrishna > > while > > > > > > > > > > cleaning his room found cockroach, Jogen was present there. Sri > > > > > > > > > > Ramakrishna asked Jogen to kill the cockroach. Jogen took the > > roach > > > > > > > > > > outside but let it go. When he returned, Sri Ramakrishna asked > > if > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > killed the roach, Jogen answered in negative, Sri Ramakrishna > > > > rebuked > > > > > > > > > > Jogen for not listening to master and acting according to his > > own > > > > > > > > > > will. Sri Ramakrishna was trying to mold Jogen's nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On adifferent day, Jogen was on his way to Dakshineshwar to > > see > > > > Sri > > > > > > > > > > Ramakrishna in a boat (in Ganges river), his fellow passengers > > > > started > > > > > > > > > > bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna , they wouldn't stop. Jogen > > being > > > > soft > > > > > > > > > > natured didn't uttered a word, later he conveyed the scenario > > to > > > > Sr > > > > > > > > > > Ramakrishna. Sri Ramakrishna rebuked Jogen and said he should > > have > > > > > > > > > > protested and a disciple should always defend his guru. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Niranjan's nature was exactly opposite to Jogen. Niranjan > > was > > > > broad > > > > > > > > > > chested with athletic physique and had violent temper. On a > > > > particular > > > > > > > > > > day he was on his way to Dakshineshwar in a boat, his fellow > > > > > > > > > > passengers started bad mouthing Sri Ramakrishna. Niranjan > > > > protested, > > > > > > > > > > but they wouldn't budge. Niranjan jumped into water (he was > > adept > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > swimming) and started rocking the boat. He wanted to sink the > > boat > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > everybody could get drowned. People started to cry and asked > > for > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > forgiveness, eventually Niranjan relented. Later he informed > > this > > > > > > > > > > scenario to Sri Ramakrishna, master was absolutely not pleased > > with > > > > > > > > > > Niranjan's behavior. He told Niranjan never to behave like > > that > > > > > > > > > > again, and advised him to be satvic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramkrishna was advising differently to different people > > > > based > > > > > > > > > > on their nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aum > > > > > > > > > > > Avinash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > faintglow <faintglow@ ..> > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, June 8, 2007 10:11:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > Re: A question to Amma 6 June 2007 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recall a couple of such stories from my ancient reading of > > the > > > > SRK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > literature. Once Sri Ramakrishna advised someone not to kill > > > > mosquitos > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and another time He was spotted trying to swat them in His > > room. > > > > The > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same with cockroaches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contradictions are quite common, with Mahatmas, as with life > > in > > > > general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Context usually dominates, but generality has value if you > > can > > > > isolate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it. Now there is a contradiction! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fg/hw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi@ .com, " Prashanti " > > > > <ammasprashanti@ ...> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Amriteswaryai Namah, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forgive my partial rendering of this thought-provoking > > > > exchange. But I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wanted to share a bit of an experience from Mother's visit > > to > > > > San > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night, between the satsang and bhajans, Amma took a > > > > question from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Her > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > children. A daughter asked for explanation of, or insight > > > > into, an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anecdote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > she had recently heard about Ramakrishna. According to the > > > > account she > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read, once Sri Ramakrishna had told a devotee to take a > > > > cockroach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > outside > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and kill it. The devotee could not, he just let it go or > > > > something, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when he came back to the Guru, He scolded the disciple and > > > > said " You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have killed the cockroach. " The daughter wondered if Amma > > > > could help > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > explain that story to us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma replied that she did not think a Mahatma would give > > such > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instructions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She couldn't believe it happened that way. (She asked the > > > > daughter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where she > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had read it, and repeated several times Her sense that it > > > > seemed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unlikely > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that a Mahatma would tell a disciple to injure a harmless > > > > creature.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IF it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did happen like that, perhaps it was a test of the > > disciple's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > maturity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That Ramakrishna might have been testing his disciple, to > > see > > > > if he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > obey unquestioningly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (And then came a lovely bit of insight about the way a > > chela > > > > matures, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that we should use our discriminative powers to attend to > > the > > > > meaning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > significance behind the Guru's words / instructions / > > > > actions.) Mother > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > made a funny joke about how She understands that many of > > her > > > > western > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > children are afraid of cockroaches! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But above all, from this daughter's perspective, Amma > > > > emphasized that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very difficult to answer such questions, because of the > > way > > > > spiritual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is diluted as stories are told over and over and over > > > > again. " In > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > today's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > world people will hear one thing and say it another way > > and so > > > > on... " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person adds a little water, so to speak, and then it is > > like a > > > > game of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whisper-down- the-alley or telephone, and the truth > > becomes > > > > distorted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diluted and things are lost. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devotees relate their interpretation of a story according > > to > > > > their own > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > understanding and maturity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, once the world was suffering with drought and > > war > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > illness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and such things. The humans, asuras, and devas went to > > Father > > > > Brahma, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creator, to ask for his help. Lord Brahma was in deep > > > > meditation, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > simply uttered one syllable in response to his children's > > > > pleas: " DA. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The humans heard that single syllable DA and thought, " He > > must > > > > mean [a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sanskrit word sounded like danam] charity " or to give away > > and > > > > share > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others. Because humans were not sharing with each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The demons heard that single syllable DA and thought it > > > > meant " DAYA, " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kindness. Because their nature was cruelty and > > they " needed " > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the devas, who were indulgers and hedonists, heard > > that > > > > single > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > syllable > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DA and thought it must mean [not sure of the word] to > > practice > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > restraint. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they needed to control their sense organs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The implication being that each one interprets it > > differently > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > according to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his own desires and according to his own maturity. So we > > must > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > attentive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to understanding the true signficance of an instruction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amma gave a number of other illustrations of the subtle > > > > distinctions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dharma and the significance of the Guru's every word and > > > > action, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > importance of proper understanding, but I did not write > > them > > > > down. To > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DAughter, having heard Amma emphasize the syllable DA the > > day > > > > before, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so beautiful to be given more instructions about how much > > our > > > > minds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > samskaras shape our interpretation of " what is going down " > > at > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There was also another brief question that Mother said She > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > answer on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > another day, a devotee from perhaps Deutschelande, asked > > for > > > > Mother's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > core > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > message to the young parents attending and to the teachers > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother said it was a very good question, and to give a one > > word > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > answer: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPASSION. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope you are all well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prashanti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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