Shamanism

[Guest guest]

Indo-Eurasian_research , " Trudy Kawami "

<tkawami wrote:

 

 

Shamanism is a belief system known in historical times and inferred in

some ancient cultures. Central to shamanism is the shaman , an

individual, male or female, who is " called " to the task by spirit(ual)

powers. In general the shamanist cultures see the world in several

planes, only one of which we can see & experience. The other planes (or

realms or worlds, etc.) are where a variety of spirits or powers exist

who affect the visible world. The " job " of the shaman is to visit these

other worlds, realms,etc, to find out what the spirits want so that the

bad things (violent weather, sickness, nightmares & such) stop and good

things (fertility, abundance, even happiness) return or continue or

expand. The shaman accomplishes this task by going into a trance and

then going to the spirit world. He or she leaves the body or transforms

into another being, usually a specific animal familiar. When the shaman

returns to consciousness or this world or the body, he or she then

transmits the messages the spirits/deities, etc. sent.

 

The style in which the shaman performs the task vary from culture to

culture. Drumming, chanting, dancing & the consumption of psychotropic

substances may help one enter the trance state. A shaman cannot just

hang out a shingle & claim to be one; the shaman must apprentice under

another shaman and learn many types of ceremonies, actions, chants, and

of course the cosmology of the other realms he or she will visit. In

some cultures shaman are highly regarded, while in others they are

feared because of their power. In historical times shamans have often

said that they did not choose to be a shaman but were forced to by the

spirits. It can be an onerous position because of the responsibility for

the well-being of others.

 

Shamanism is often called the circum-polar belief system as it is found

in historical times in northern Europe (Finland), northern Asia (Central

Asia,Siberia, Mongolia, Korea) and North America. It has experienced a

sort-of renewal since the 1960s with Carlos Castaneda's romantic

writings, the (re)-discovery of peyote and related events. But the

" legitimacy " of these neo-shamanists is still a matter of debate.

 

I am not knowledgeable about the yogic tradition, but the social

function of the shaman seems to be missing. A shaman does not work for

him/herself but for others.

 

Trudy Kawami

 

--- End forwarded message ---

[Guest guest]

Indo-Eurasian_research , " George Thompson "

<gthomgt wrote:

 

Dear Trudy,

 

Thank you for initiating a discussion. First of all, I know that the term

'shamanism' has been abused by New Age readers of Eliade, et al. I also

know that there has been much discussion about whether or not it is

appropriate to use a Tungusic word to refer to phenomena from other, often

quite different cultures. Some scholars prefer to highlight the

psychological status of the shaman. Others prefer to emphasise the

sociological, etc. etc..

 

As for shamanism and yoga, it would never occur to me to connect the

two. I

don't think that yoga is an Indo-Iranian practice [maybe you got the

connection from Eliade]. I am attempting to do something different.

In my

little paper I start by comparing a genre of Rgvedic poetic performance,

called aatmastuti " hymn of self [praise] " in which a Vedic poet-priest

impersonates a god. I compare this impersonations with similar

performances

from well-known Central Asian ethnographic sources.

 

So far, this is not different from what a number of Vedicists have

attempted

to do.

 

But I have also done something different, and perhaps new. Vedicists for

years now have been exploring the different strata of the Vedic lexicon:

besides the Indo-European, in fact several others can be sorted out.

There

is evidence of early contact between Indo-Iranians with speakers of

Finno-Ugrian languages, and later contact with others speaking otherwise

unknown languages of Central Asia. This contact is inferred from the

existence of loanwords that Old Indic and Old Iranian share in common. I

should mention three people who have initiated exploration of what we call

Indo-Iranian substrate language: Michael Witzel, Alexander

Lubotsky, and

Asko Parpola. I am engaged in a study of all of the lexical items

that have

been proposed as belonging to these substrate languages in all of their

attestations.

In fact, when one looks at the hymns that I cite from the Rgveda, one

encounters a strikingly high rate of attestation of these Indo-Iranian

substrate words. There is also a significant set of terms used in the

Vedic

horse sacrifice that seem to be substrate words. I have come to think

that

the god Indra has his origins in shamanistic practices that may have been

borrowed from Central Asian sources. Indra's very name, by the way, has a

good chance of being an Indo-Iranian loanword.

So, besides making a vague typological comparison between Indo-Iranian

features that appear to me to be shamanistic with features that we all

agree

are shamanistic and Central Asian, I am also attempting to establish a

linguistic link between Indo-Iranian and Central Asia. Throw in the

archaeology of Central Asia as well [e.g., D. Anthony on

horse-domestication

in CA], and maybe the method will show itself to be more rigorous than

Eliade's.

Best wishes

George

[Guest guest]

-- In Indo-Eurasian_research , Robert Simpkins

<bobsahib wrote:

 

George,

 

With respect to an unknown language stratum at the Indo-Iranian level, I

would like to point out the recent paper by Brian Hemphill and J. P.

Mallory

in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology 124:199-222 (2004).

In it,

they discuss their evidence that the early Bronze Age burials in the Tarim

Basin of Xinjiang Province, western China (ca. 2000 B.C.), do not display

the expected affinities with later burials as well as those of

Andronovo and

Afanasievo cultures, the usual candidates for early Indo-Iranian. Nor are

they related to burials from Northern Iran and the Bactria-Margiana area.

They do share distant similarities to burials from Harappa, however. This

suggests an agro-pastoral population in developed in Xinjiang that is not

derived biologically from the neolithic cultures of northern Iran (Jeitun,

Namazga, Altyn-depe, etc.), nor a by-product of the expansion of

horse-based

pastoral groups from the Pontic-Caspian region (Andronovo, Afanasievo,

etc.).

 

Although this is obviously pure speculation at this point, I wonder if

they

might be a source population for your Œunknown¹ vocabulary you link to

shamanism?

 

Bob Simpkins

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Indo-Eurasian_research , Michael Witzel

<witzel wrote:

 

Thanks, Robert, however, a few skeptical points:

 

On Apr 19, 2005, at 3:54 PM, Robert Simpkins wrote:

> With respect to an unknown language stratum at the Indo-Iranian level,

> I

> would like to point out the recent paper by Brian Hemphill and J. P.

> Mallory

> in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology 124:199-222 (2004).

> In it,

> they discuss their evidence that the early Bronze Age burials in the

> Tarim

> Basin of Xinjiang Province, western China (ca. 2000 B.C.), do not

> display

> the expected affinities with later burials as well as those of

> Andronovo and

> Afanasievo cultures, the usual candidates for early Indo-Iranian. Nor

> are

> they related to burials from Northern Iran and the Bactria-Margiana

> area.

 

Well, if they were Tocharians (nobody knows) we would not expect IIr

style graves.

For some photos of these Caucasian looking people and their burial

customs (in boat-shaped coffins), see:

http://www.nhk.or.jp/silkroad/digital/01/01.html¡¡¡¡and:

http://www.nhk.or.jp/silkroad/archive/01/01.html

 

Have not seen the paper yet, however:

 

> They do share distant similarities to burials from Harappa, however.

> This

> suggests an agro-pastoral population in developed in Xinjiang that is

> not

> derived biologically from the neolithic cultures of northern Iran

> (Jeitun,

> Namazga, Altyn-depe, etc.), nor a by-product of the expansion of

> horse-based

> pastoral groups from the Pontic-Caspian region (Andronovo, Afanasievo,

> etc.).

 

Very broad conclusion based on study of human remains! Hemphill even

found differences between Harappa and Mohenjo Daro burial remains (now

supported by genetics), so what does it mean that teh distant Xinjiang

remains are similar to Harappa?

 

Physical anthropology seems to me to be a too broad way of measuring

(maybe exc. for some dental studies). Phenotype changes quickly due to

many factors. (Look at war time and post-war time Japanese). A genetic

study would create certainty...

 

Also, culture and language are not = physical remains. Take a look at

the present US, UK, etc.

 

> Although this is obviously pure speculation at this point, I wonder if

> they

> might be a source population for your ¡Æunknown¡Ç vocabulary you link to

> shamanism?

 

Agree: the Xinjiang people (e.g., Tocharians) are just ONE of 3

sources for the Central Asian substrate language: the Tocharians only

have them as *loanwords*, just as Old Iranian and Vedic...

The unkown 'substrate' population is that of the BMAC and neigboring

cultures.

Cheers, MW

 

Michael Witzel

Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard University

1 Bow Street , Cambridge MA 02138

1-617-495 3295 Fax: 496 8571

direct line: 496 2990

http://witzel/~witzel/mwpage.htm

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Indo-Eurasian_research , " Francesco Brighenti "

<frabrig wrote:

 

 

 

 

Indo-Eurasian_research , Michael Witzel

<witzel@f...> wrote:

 

> For some photos of these Caucasian looking people and their >

burial customs (in boat-shaped coffins), see:

>

> http://www.nhk.or.jp/silkroad/digital/01/01.html and:

> http://www.nhk.or.jp/silkroad/archive/01/01.html

 

 

Thanks, Michael, for the great links with digital visual

presentation!

 

The Xiaohe River tombs in Lop Nor desert (where China's first H-bomb

exploded in 1967) were first found in 1934 by the Swedish

archaeologist Folke Bergman, who estimated (correctly) that the

tombs could date from c. 2000 BCE. He also opined that this burial

site, covering an area of 2,500 sqm on a huge sand dune, had

belonged to a culturally `Aryan' and racially

`Caucasian' Bronze Age

population. The site was re-excavated by Chinese archaeologists

starting from 2003, after Bergman's book _Archaeological

Researches

in Sinkiang_ was translated into Chinese in the late 1990s. This led

to the discovery of more than one-hundred tombs.

 

Chinese archaeologists found some 100 wooden stakes, some of them

with bovine skulls hung from the top, which demonstrate how that

people buried the dead, and perhaps point to ritual parallels in

other regions of Asia as detectable with the instruments of

ethnoarchaeology.

 

I agree with B. Hemphill and J.P. Mallory, as cited by Bob Simpkins

in his msg. # 251, that the Xiaohe tombs do not show " the

expected

affinities with later burials as well as those of Andronovo and

Afanasievo cultures, the usual candidates for early Indo-Iranian…

nor are they related to burials from Northern Iran and the

Bactria. "

In fact:

 

http://english.people.com.cn/english/200101/16/eng20010116_60628.html

" Chinese archaeologists also found bent wooden blocks, human

bones,

dismembered mummies and woven pieces of wool. " [The `bent

wooden

blocks' mentioned here may be the same as the `boat-shaped

coffins'

referred to by Michael -- after that Japanese website?]

 

http://english.china.com/zh_cn/culture_history/art_handicraft/1102071

1/20050104/12047641.html

" Archaeologists have unearthed two coffins covered with mud at

the

deepest burial layers. The coffins were surrounded with wooden

stakes…….The head of cow was hung from the top of each

stake…….Before the discovery, all wooden coffins were made from

the

wood of a poplar tree, endemic to the desert areas in northwest

China. Usually the coffins had no bottoms and were covered with

cowhides. "

 

Well, I think that burial customs such as the disposal of the dead

in boat-shaped coffins, the hanging of bovine skulls/horns from

memorial stakes, and also the use of bottomless coffins (whose

purpose is frequently that of allowing a quick decomposition of the

non-skeletal parts of the buried corpse or draining the liquids

resulting from the decomposition process) can be seen as typical of

certain Assamese and even S.E. Asian tribal cultures. I don't

want

to imply that the Bronze Age people who erected the Xiaohe burial

complex were Proto-Tibeto-Burman or even Proto-Austro-Tai speakers,

yet I strongly suspect their burial customs might have had much in

common with those of some tribal populations of N.E. India, Burma,

Indo-China and Indonesia who still nowadays follow some similar

burial observances -- please refer to my abstract paper on buffalo

sacrifice and tribal mortuary rituals in southern China, eastern

India and S.E. Asia at

 

http://www.svabhinava.org/friends/FrancescoBrighenti/BuffaloSacrifice

-frame.html

 

Enough for today… And the discussion on *South Asian*

shamanism(s)

must still start!

 

Regards,

Francesco

 

--- End forwarded message ---

[Guest guest]

Indo-Eurasian_research , Michael Witzel

<witzel wrote:

 

Many thanks, Trudy, for you detailed description. I think most will

agree with most of it.

Let me just pick up one or two or three points for further discussion.

 

On Apr 19, 2005, at 5:52 AM, Trudy Kawami wrote:

>

> Shamanism is often called the circum-polar belief system as it is found

> in historical times in northern Europe (Finland), northern Asia

> (Central

> Asia,Siberia, Mongolia, Korea) and North America.

 

True, Shamanism seems concentrated (nowadays) in the circumpolar world

(most recent, detailed overview by Roberte Hamayon,

----------

 

La chasse à l'âme : esquisse d'une théorie du chamanisme sibérien.

Nanterre : Société d'ethnologie, 1990.)

 

But it has 'extensions' down to, for example, Nepal (G. Maskarinec,

Nepalese Shaman Oral Texts, HOS 1998; one more vol. in the works) or

even in South America.

 

* However, we must also look into its presence among the so-called

Khoi-San (Bushmen), Aboriginal Australians or Andamanese.

 

Eliade in his 'classic' on the topic wanted to see the Australian form

as 'degraded.' I cannot detect such a thing. In contrast, the elements

of learning from older shamans and of gradually managing the powers

released/contacted are present in all these " Southern " forms.

 

Most interestingly, -- and I am sure this will again cause some to

renew their descriptions of me as 'Hindu hater' -- the Bushmen,

Andamanese and Australians talk of the power released as 'heat', and as

moving up the spine; they have to learn to bring it under control.

Which would indicate the 'primitive' -- well: " perennial " ^ --

origins of some forms of Indian (kundalini) Yoga. Nothing really new or

unique here: just preservation of some Stone Age spiritual techniques.

(Siddhis like flying [hopping in TM] must be brought under control in

classical Yoga, while the Shaman actually flies upwards/downwards).

 

Which end product is very different from classical (Siberian)

Shamanism: not just socially, as has already been mentioned, but also

in nature (Shamanism = extatic, Yoga = enstatic, as I once read decades

ago).

 

Note that these 2 of these 3 peoples are part of the Out of Africa

trail at 55,000 years ago (The Bushmen, too, must have come from much

farther north, as their relatives, the Hadza and Sandawe in Tanzania

still attest to). And, according to recent genetic findings, the

Andamanese are genetically very close to the Bushmen, both going back

straight to the (E. African) root of our African ancestors.

 

 

* Another hot topic is the distinction between the Shaman's quest to

contact spirits/other worlds

and possession, where a spirit enters an unwilling being, in Nepal and

N. India <<see now same idea, in post by CP Zoller>>, usually women who

are then called 'witches' (boksi) and are exorciced, well ... by

Shamans (jhankri). Possession, occurring worldwide(?) has nothing to do

with Shamanism as commonly defined, though some of the outwardly

visible aspects may overlap.

 

Cheers, Michael

 

>

Michael Witzel

Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard University

1 Bow Street , Cambridge MA 02138

1-617-495 3295 Fax: 496 8571

direct line: 496 2990

http://witzel/~witzel/mwpage.htm

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Indo-Eurasian_research , Heleanor Feltham

<hfeltham wrote:

 

 

Throughout much of Central Asia, among the nomadic tribes, the most

common form of Shamanism was/is Tengric Shamanism, which postulates a

central god, usually located in an appropriate mountain system such as

the Altai or the Tien Shan (Mountain of Heaven) - which differs from

some other versions. In some cases it was associated with

reincarnation, dogs (useful herd animals) being seen as both

appropriate to carry messages between worlds, and therefore sacrificed

in rituals to seal intertribal agreements such as that between the Khan

of the Bulgars and the Byzantine emperor Leo. Similar sacrifices are

recorded in Siberia (e.g. the Smithsonian expedition of the 1920s).

Dogs should be well treated, according to the Mongols, as they

reincarnate as the next generation and if they have been abused, your

children will be resentful and difficult.

 

Totemic animals, such as white horses, eagles, big cats, work by

temporarily incorporating the, for want of a better term, Platonic

incarnation of the species during those moments when the shaman is in

contact with the messenger, the same is true of the divine aspects of

the natural world - stones, trees, watersources - creating sacred sites

which are not always permanent. Even the smoke rising from the hearth

of the yurt may briefly encapsulate the tree of life fulcrum of the

three worlds.

 

Shamans not only mediate between the various worlds, they also

determine the movements of nomadic tribes, act as group psychologists,

doctors, priests and political advisers. Off-beat sexuality is often a

recommendation, as it is said to give the shaman insight into the

totality of human experience, conversely the talent is said to run in

families, especially in Tuva where the Mongols believe the best shamans

are born. It's rather more wide-spread than circumpolar, however, and

is still found in areas of Korea and Indonesia where among some groups

such as the Bugi, it coexists with Islam, especially in its Sufi

manifestations.

 

Heleanor Feltham

 

On 19/04/2005, at 6:52 AM, Trudy Kawami wrote:

 

>

> Shamanism is a belief system known in historical times and inferred in

> some ancient cultures. Central to shamanism is the shaman , an

> individual, male or female, who is " called " to the task by spirit(ual)

> powers. In general the shamanist cultures see the world in several

> planes, only one of which we can see & experience. The other planes

> (or

> realms or worlds, etc.) are where a variety of spirits or powers exist

> who affect the visible world. The " job " of the shaman is to visit

> these

> other worlds, realms,etc, to find out what the spirits want so that

> the

> bad things (violent weather, sickness, nightmares & such) stop and

> good

> things (fertility, abundance, even happiness) return or continue or

> expand. The shaman accomplishes this task by going into a trance and

> then going to the spirit world. He or she leaves the body or

> transforms

> into another being, usually a specific animal familiar. When the

> shaman

> returns to consciousness or this world or the body, he or she then

> transmits the messages the spirits/deities, etc. sent.

>

> The style in which the shaman performs the task vary from culture to

> culture. Drumming, chanting, dancing & the consumption of psychotropic

> substances may help one enter the trance state. A shaman cannot just

> hang out a shingle & claim to be one; the shaman must apprentice under

> another shaman and learn many types of ceremonies, actions, chants,

> and

> of course the cosmology of the other realms he or she will visit. In

> some cultures shaman are highly regarded, while in others they are

> feared because of their power. In historical times shamans have often

> said that they did not choose to be a shaman but were forced to by the

> spirits. It can be an onerous position because of the responsibility

> for

> the well-being of others.

>

> Shamanism is often called the circum-polar belief system as it is

> found

> in historical times in northern Europe (Finland), northern Asia

> (Central

> Asia,Siberia, Mongolia, Korea) and North America. It has experienced a

> sort-of renewal since the 1960s with Carlos Castaneda's romantic

> writings, the (re)-discovery of peyote and related events. But the

> " legitimacy " of these neo-shamanists is still a matter of debate.

>

> I am not knowledgeable about the yogic tradition, but the social

> function of the shaman seems to be missing. A shaman does not work for

> him/herself but for others.

>

> Trudy Kawami