Best Wishes to Kishore and All

November 28, 2008

I wish you all the best in your quest for the historical truths. I dare not post here again. Apparently we have not been reading the same historical sources. You are all obviously sharp historians and experts. I am not in the same league as your esteemed selves, so I am leaving the forum. It has been interesting and I wish to extend my thanks to our host, Kishore who has been most tolerant and kind.

All the best.

Sue

(There has been extensive contact between east and west, Buddhism, Christianity; Roman and Egyptian pagan gods were found on coins and artifacts at Taxila centuries before and after Christian era, indicating a wealth of cross-cultural awareness and cross-cultural influences that existed since recorded history. Knowledge of Christianity in India is no exception. It arrived very early and had a powerful influence, just as the Greeks and Romans had.Following is just a few excerpts from Dr. Dani's findings. Of course there are many more sources)

Taxila circa 90 B.C. to AD 60

Pg.66:

The history of the Scythians (Sakas) and Parthians is beset with chronological and dynastic problems.

They came from the west through the southern Indus Valley route.

The Greeks held power until Zaes 1 inflicted the deathblow to the rule of the Greeks and probably completed the Parthian 1 city of Taxila. The Parthian 11 phase was mainly remembered for the name of Gondopharnes whose coins and inscriptions are found in a vast belt spreading from Bajaur to Chilas in the upper Indus.

Pg. 67:

The new discovery of Karoshti inscriptions all along the upper Indus from Chilas to Hunza opens a whole new picture of Scythian migrations along this route…

Pg. 68-69:

There are several other Buddhist inscriptions identified with the Vikrama era , marking the final victory over the Greeks. The Vikrama era was known as the era of Azes 1, hence the actual date comes to A.D. 45, which coincides with the twenty-sixth year of King Gondopharnes. He there for must have come to the thone in A.D. 19. The name of Gondopharnes becomes very famous and by the third century A.D. he is associated with the Christian story of Saint Thomas….What is more important is the description given by Apollonius, as recorded in his biography by Philostratus. Apollonius was born at the beginning of the Christian era at Tyana and reached Taxila A.D. 46 when Phraotes was a successor to Gondopharnes….the city reminded them of Athens…Taxila had truly become a meeting ground of the ideas and cultures between east and west.

Pg. 76:

Kashmir was a dependency of Taxila at the time of the visit of Hiuen-Tsang.

"Christianity arrived in India 45 A.D. with the Apostle Thomas"- This is a Wikipedia discussion (I know, Wikipedia is definitely not a scholarly resource), if you think this is wrong, please make the needed corrections:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_India

Here are over 30 scholarly books on the origins of Thomas and Christianity in India (probably where Wikipedia contributors got many of their ideas) …written by eastern and western scholars ….please write to each publisher and inform them of their grave errors in misrepresenting the history of Thomas and Christianity in India….as their historical conclusions do not agree with your experts in this forum:

http://www.mergingcurrents.com/category.php?CategoryID=50

http://www.mergingcurrents.com/category.php?CategoryID=52

Taxila by Ahmad Hasan Dani (Sang-Meel Publishers, Lahore, Pakistan 1999)

Taxila circa 90 B.C. to AD 60

Pg.66:

The history of the Scythians (Sakas) and Parthians is beset with chronological and dynastic problems.

They came from the west through the southern Indus Valley route.

The Greeks held power until Zaes 1 inflicted the deathblow to the rule of the Greeks and probably completed the Parthian 1 city of Taxila. The Parthian 11 phase was mainly remembered for the name of Gondopharnes whose coins and inscriptions are found in a vast belt spreading from Bajaur to Chilas in the upper Indus.

Pg. 67:

The new discovery of Karoshti inscriptions all along the upper Indus from Chilas to Hunza opens a whole new picture of Scythian migrations along this route…

Pg. 68-69:

There are several other Buddhist inscriptions identified with the Vikrama era , marking the final victory over the Greeks. The Vikrama era was known as the era of Azes 1, hence the actual date comes to A.D. 45, which coincides with the twenty-sixth year of King Gondopharnes. He there for must have come to the thone in A.D. 19. The name of Gondopharnes becomes very famous and by the third century A.D. he is associated with the Christian story of Saint Thomas….What is more important is the description given by Apollonius, as recorded in his biography by Philostratus. Apollonius was born at the beginning of the Christian era at Tyana and reached Taxila A.D. 46 when Phraotes was a successor to Gondopharnes….the city reminded them of Athens…Taxila had truly become a meeting ground of the ideas and cultures between east and west.

Pg. 76:

Kashmir was a dependency of Taxila at the time of the visit of Hiuen-Tsang.

"Christianity arrived in India 45 A.D. with the Apostle Thomas"- This is a Wikipedia discussion (I know, Wikipedia is definitely not a scholarly resource-but a good example of commonly held beliefs), if you think this is wrong, please make the needed corrections:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_India

Here are over 30 scholarly books on the origins of Thomas and Christianity in India (probably where Wikipedia contributors got many of their ideas) …written by both eastern and western scholars ….please write to each publisher and inform them of their grave errors in 'misrepresenting' the history of Thomas and Christianity in India….as their historical conclusions do not agree with your experts in this forum:

http://www.mergingcurrents.com/category.php?CategoryID=50

http://www.mergingcurrents.com/category.php?CategoryID=52

November 29, 2008

Dear Susie,

I was busy for the last few weeks and could not go through the mails totally before approving.

AncientIndia is dedicated to the quest of truth. Sometimes, it does hurt the feelings of certain sections, be them Hindus or Christians, North Indians or South Indians,Iranians or Jews.

However, if rhetoric plays a part in our quest, it is everyone's duty to point out without feeling emotional about it.

I hope the good principles of research guide all of us in this regard and no one should get carried away by emotions or beliefs.

I hope you will continue to post here since you, like every one else, have a duty to the Truth.

best regards,

Kishore patnaik

On 11/28/08, Suzanne Olsson <suzanne_olsson wrote:

I wish you all the best in your quest for the historical truths. I dare not post here again. Apparently we have not been reading the same historical sources. You are all obviously sharp historians and experts. I am not in the same league as your esteemed selves, so I am leaving the forum. It has been interesting and I wish to extend my thanks to our host, Kishore who has been most tolerant and kind.

All the best.

Sue

(There has been extensive contact between east and west, Buddhism, Christianity; Roman and Egyptian pagan gods were found on coins and artifacts at Taxila centuries before and after Christian era, indicating a wealth of cross-cultural awareness and cross-cultural influences that existed since recorded history. Knowledge of Christianity in India is no exception. It arrived very early and had a powerful influence, just as the Greeks and Romans had.Following is just a few excerpts from Dr. Dani's findings. Of course there are many more sources)

Taxila circa 90 B.C. to AD 60

Pg.66:

The history of the Scythians (Sakas) and Parthians is beset with chronological and dynastic problems.

They came from the west through the southern Indus Valley route.

The Greeks held power until Zaes 1 inflicted the deathblow to the rule of the Greeks and probably completed the Parthian 1 city of Taxila. The Parthian 11 phase was mainly remembered for the name of Gondopharnes whose coins and inscriptions are found in a vast belt spreading from Bajaur to Chilas in the upper Indus.

Pg. 67:

The new discovery of Karoshti inscriptions all along the upper Indus from Chilas to Hunza opens a whole new picture of Scythian migrations along this route…

Pg. 68-69:

There are several other Buddhist inscriptions identified with the Vikrama era , marking the final victory over the Greeks. The Vikrama era was known as the era of Azes 1, hence the actual date comes to A.D. 45, which coincides with the twenty-sixth year of King Gondopharnes. He there for must have come to the thone in A.D. 19. The name of Gondopharnes becomes very famous and by the third century A.D. he is associated with the Christian story of Saint Thomas….What is more important is the description given by Apollonius, as recorded in his biography by Philostratus. Apollonius was born at the beginning of the Christian era at Tyana and reached Taxila A.D. 46 when Phraotes was a successor to Gondopharnes….the city reminded them of Athens…Taxila had truly become a meeting ground of the ideas and cultures between east and west.

Pg. 76:

Kashmir was a dependency of Taxila at the time of the visit of Hiuen-Tsang.

" Christianity arrived in India 45 A.D. with the Apostle Thomas " - This is a Wikipedia discussion (I know, Wikipedia is definitely not a scholarly resource), if you think this is wrong, please make the needed corrections:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_India

Here are over 30 scholarly books on the origins of Thomas and Christianity in India (probably where Wikipedia contributors got many of their ideas) …written by eastern and western scholars ….please write to each publisher and inform them of their grave errors in misrepresenting the history of Thomas and Christianity in India….as their historical conclusions do not agree with your experts in this forum:

http://www.mergingcurrents.com/category.php?CategoryID=50

http://www.mergingcurrents.com/category.php?CategoryID=52

Taxila by Ahmad Hasan Dani (Sang-Meel Publishers, Lahore, Pakistan 1999)

Taxila circa 90 B.C. to AD 60

Pg.66:

The history of the Scythians (Sakas) and Parthians is beset with chronological and dynastic problems.

They came from the west through the southern Indus Valley route.

The Greeks held power until Zaes 1 inflicted the deathblow to the rule of the Greeks and probably completed the Parthian 1 city of Taxila. The Parthian 11 phase was mainly remembered for the name of Gondopharnes whose coins and inscriptions are found in a vast belt spreading from Bajaur to Chilas in the upper Indus.

Pg. 67:

The new discovery of Karoshti inscriptions all along the upper Indus from Chilas to Hunza opens a whole new picture of Scythian migrations along this route…

Pg. 68-69:

There are several other Buddhist inscriptions identified with the Vikrama era , marking the final victory over the Greeks. The Vikrama era was known as the era of Azes 1, hence the actual date comes to A.D. 45, which coincides with the twenty-sixth year of King Gondopharnes. He there for must have come to the thone in A.D. 19. The name of Gondopharnes becomes very famous and by the third century A.D. he is associated with the Christian story of Saint Thomas….What is more important is the description given by Apollonius, as recorded in his biography by Philostratus. Apollonius was born at the beginning of the Christian era at Tyana and reached Taxila A.D. 46 when Phraotes was a successor to Gondopharnes….the city reminded them of Athens…Taxila had truly become a meeting ground of the ideas and cultures between east and west.

Pg. 76:

Kashmir was a dependency of Taxila at the time of the visit of Hiuen-Tsang.

" Christianity arrived in India 45 A.D. with the Apostle Thomas " - This is a Wikipedia discussion (I know, Wikipedia is definitely not a scholarly resource-but a good example of commonly held beliefs), if you think this is wrong, please make the needed corrections:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_India

Here are over 30 scholarly books on the origins of Thomas and Christianity in India (probably where Wikipedia contributors got many of their ideas) …written by both eastern and western scholars ….please write to each publisher and inform them of their grave errors in 'misrepresenting' the history of Thomas and Christianity in India….as their historical conclusions do not agree with your experts in this forum:

http://www.mergingcurrents.com/category.php?CategoryID=50

http://www.mergingcurrents.com/category.php?CategoryID=52

November 29, 2008

Dear Suzanne,

you said:

>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_India

>>Here are over 30 scholarly books on the origins of Thomas and Christianity in India (probably where Wikipedia contributors got many of their ideas)

30 "scholarly" books, big deal! Anyone can write a "scholarly" book, you just added one of your own.

By the way, who are the writers, which are the "scholarly books"? Have these been peer reveiwed? By whom?

Like earlier said, Thomas fable is a typical case of "Truth by repeated assertion". If you were so very confident of the truth contained in those 30 books, why don't you even begin to pour out the arguments in favour of "Thomas in India" theory? Meanwhile, I would suggest you first study and refute the research contained in "The Myth of Saint Thomas and the Mylapore Siva Temple" by Ishwar Sharan, Voice of India, 1991, revised-enlarged in 1995. Also Sita Ram Goel's "Papacy. Its Doctrine and History", Voice of India, 1986.

And, here is a suggestion I have, and I would love to hear your response to it.

You (and others) call this religion Christianity. But in the same breath, you call others' religion as isms: Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Sikhism... Why the double standards? Is there a reason why that religion should not be properly called what it is: Christianism? (let me tell you what -- this is another game that "Scholary" christists have been playing for last 200 years. "ism" by definition is a man-made concept or an ideology, ity is not. Therefore the exclusive right to calling itself an "-ity" must belong to that divinely-revealed religion, no?)

Best Regards

Sarvesh

From: suzanne_olssonDate: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:22:41 +0000 Best Wishes to Kishore and All

I wish you all the best in your quest for the historical truths. I dare not post here again. Apparently we have not been reading the same historical sources. You are all obviously sharp historians and experts. I am not in the same league as your esteemed selves, so I am leaving the forum. It has been interesting and I wish to extend my thanks to our host, Kishore who has been most tolerant and kind.

All the best.

Sue

(There has been extensive contact between east and west, Buddhism, Christianity; Roman and Egyptian pagan gods were found on coins and artifacts at Taxila centuries before and after Christian era, indicating a wealth of cross-cultural awareness and cross-cultural influences that existed since recorded history. Knowledge of Christianity in India is no exception. It arrived very early and had a powerful influence, just as the Greeks and Romans had.Following is just a few excerpts from Dr. Dani's findings. Of course there are many more sources)

Taxila circa 90 B.C. to AD 60

Pg.66:

The history of the Scythians (Sakas) and Parthians is beset with chronological and dynastic problems.

They came from the west through the southern Indus Valley route.

The Greeks held power until Zaes 1 inflicted the deathblow to the rule of the Greeks and probably completed the Parthian 1 city of Taxila. The Parthian 11 phase was mainly remembered for the name of Gondopharnes whose coins and inscriptions are found in a vast belt spreading from Bajaur to Chilas in the upper Indus.

Pg. 67:

The new discovery of Karoshti inscriptions all along the upper Indus from Chilas to Hunza opens a whole new picture of Scythian migrations along this route…

Pg. 68-69:

There are several other Buddhist inscriptions identified with the Vikrama era , marking the final victory over the Greeks. The Vikrama era was known as the era of Azes 1, hence the actual date comes to A.D. 45, which coincides with the twenty-sixth year of King Gondopharnes. He there for must have come to the thone in A.D. 19. The name of Gondopharnes becomes very famous and by the third century A.D. he is associated with the Christian story of Saint Thomas….What is more important is the description given by Apollonius, as recorded in his biography by Philostratus. Apollonius was born at the beginning of the Christian era at Tyana and reached Taxila A.D. 46 when Phraotes was a successor to Gondopharnes….the city reminded them of Athens…Taxila had truly become a meeting ground of the ideas and cultures between east and west.

Pg. 76:

Kashmir was a dependency of Taxila at the time of the visit of Hiuen-Tsang.

"Christianity arrived in India 45 A.D. with the Apostle Thomas"- This is a Wikipedia discussion (I know, Wikipedia is definitely not a scholarly resource), if you think this is wrong, please make the needed corrections:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_India

Here are over 30 scholarly books on the origins of Thomas and Christianity in India (probably where Wikipedia contributors got many of their ideas) …written by eastern and western scholars ….please write to each publisher and inform them of their grave errors in misrepresenting the history of Thomas and Christianity in India….as their historical conclusions do not agree with your experts in this forum:

http://www.mergingcurrents.com/category.php?CategoryID=50

http://www.mergingcurrents.com/category.php?CategoryID=52

Taxila by Ahmad Hasan Dani (Sang-Meel Publishers, Lahore, Pakistan 1999)

Taxila circa 90 B.C. to AD 60

Pg.66:

The history of the Scythians (Sakas) and Parthians is beset with chronological and dynastic problems.

They came from the west through the southern Indus Valley route.

The Greeks held power until Zaes 1 inflicted the deathblow to the rule of the Greeks and probably completed the Parthian 1 city of Taxila. The Parthian 11 phase was mainly remembered for the name of Gondopharnes whose coins and inscriptions are found in a vast belt spreading from Bajaur to Chilas in the upper Indus.

Pg. 67:

The new discovery of Karoshti inscriptions all along the upper Indus from Chilas to Hunza opens a whole new picture of Scythian migrations along this route…

Pg. 68-69:

There are several other Buddhist inscriptions identified with the Vikrama era , marking the final victory over the Greeks. The Vikrama era was known as the era of Azes 1, hence the actual date comes to A.D. 45, which coincides with the twenty-sixth year of King Gondopharnes. He there for must have come to the thone in A.D. 19. The name of Gondopharnes becomes very famous and by the third century A.D. he is associated with the Christian story of Saint Thomas….What is more important is the description given by Apollonius, as recorded in his biography by Philostratus. Apollonius was born at the beginning of the Christian era at Tyana and reached Taxila A.D. 46 when Phraotes was a successor to Gondopharnes….the city reminded them of Athens…Taxila had truly become a meeting ground of the ideas and cultures between east and west.

Pg. 76:

Kashmir was a dependency of Taxila at the time of the visit of Hiuen-Tsang.

"Christianity arrived in India 45 A.D. with the Apostle Thomas"- This is a Wikipedia discussion (I know, Wikipedia is definitely not a scholarly resource-but a good example of commonly held beliefs), if you think this is wrong, please make the needed corrections:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_India

Here are over 30 scholarly books on the origins of Thomas and Christianity in India (probably where Wikipedia contributors got many of their ideas) …written by both eastern and western scholars ….please write to each publisher and inform them of their grave errors in 'misrepresenting' the history of Thomas and Christianity in India….as their historical conclusions do not agree with your experts in this forum:

http://www.mergingcurrents.com/category.php?CategoryID=50

http://www.mergingcurrents.com/category.php?CategoryID=52

Team India gets set to thwart Australia’s quest for the final frontier. Catch the action on MSN Try it now!

December 1, 2008

Dear Suzanne, I for one will miss your input which I think added a vitality to this group. I also think you underestimate yourself as a scholar and historian, your below agenda for where you wanted to go with future discussions appears to be very focused and together and left me feeling rather scattered in my thinking. All the best with your quest for knowledge and truth, BruceOn 27/11/2008, Suzanne Olsson wrote:I would like to start a new topic dealing with just one subject, the genaelolgy of Siddharta Buddha..after that discussion has been aired, I would like to discuss the DNA of Tocharian mummies, Brahmins, and what made me determine the pattern and the AIT theory...we can set the theory next to the actual DNA evidence and see where it leads us...OK? On 29/11/2008, at 4:22 AM, Suzanne Olsson wrote:I wish you all the best in your quest for the historical truths. I dare not post here again. Apparently we have not been reading the same historical sources. You are all obviously sharp historians and experts. I am not in the same league as your esteemed selves, so I am leaving the forum. It has been interesting and I wish to extend my thanks to our host, Kishore who has been most tolerant and kind. All the best. Sue

December 1, 2008

I have personally requested Susie to remain with her inputs. I respect her as a person and feel she displayed a true Christian spirit.

Kishore patnaik

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Bruce Duffy <bwduffy wrote:

Dear Suzanne, I for one will miss your input which I think added a vitality to this group. I also think you underestimate yourself as a scholar and historian, your below agenda for where you wanted to go with future discussions appears to be very focused and together and left me feeling rather scattered in my thinking. All the best with your quest for knowledge and truth, Bruce

On 27/11/2008, Suzanne Olsson wrote:

I would like to start a new topic dealing with just one subject, the genaelolgy of Siddharta Buddha..after that discussion has been aired, I would like to discuss the DNA of Tocharian mummies, Brahmins, and what made me determine the pattern and the AIT theory...we can set the theory next to the actual DNA evidence and see where it leads us...OK?

On 29/11/2008, at 4:22 AM, Suzanne Olsson wrote:

I wish you all the best in your quest for the historical truths. I dare not post here again. Apparently we have not been reading the same historical sources. You are all obviously sharp historians and experts. I am not in the same league as your esteemed selves, so I am leaving the forum. It has been interesting and I wish to extend my thanks to our host, Kishore who has been most tolerant and kind.

All the best.

Sue