A short note on Asoka

[Guest guest]

The various sources in history present a fascinating story of Asoka,

the Mauryan king.

 

Asoka was called by many names such as Devanam priya and priyadarsi.

There are obviously many Asokas etc in history

 

/message/64

 

In fact, Priyadarsi as a title to Asoka is a misnomer, as Asoka was

known to be ugly and hence, disliked by his father.

 

Quote

" The Sanskrit Divy & #257;vad & #257;na elaborates the ugly appearance

and fierce nature of A & #347;oka and presents a grotesque and

gruesome episode of how he converted his royal pleasance

into a place of terror, horror, oppression and tragic deaths of

the unwary visitors and passers-by through his agent Candagirika.

17 It also attributes to A & #347;oka the beheading of 500 ministers

with his own sword and the burning to death of 500 court

ladies. The Chinese A & #347;ok & #257;vad & #257;na resorts to higher levels of

poetical imagination in representing A & #347;oka as a most wicked

character. "

 

Unquote

 

 

The name of his mother is mentioned as Janapada Kalyani, which was

also the name of an unfortunate bride married to Nanda, the Sankya

prince who Buddha has converted to a monk on the night of his marriage.

 

In any case, it is apparent that Asoka's mother is a Brahmin, coming

from the banks of River Champa, perhaps married to Bindusara on his

campaigns to Anga, the country of Bihar lying on the other side of the

river. Some sources mention her name as Dharma, a disciple of Ajivaka

preceptor Jan & #257;sana (Jar & #257;sana, Jarasona, skt : :Pingalavatsa)

 

 

Some people cling to his obviously false connection to a Greek

mother, perhaps because of the romanticism that is offered by such a

connection.

 

His mother, fallen out of grace with the king due to palace intrigues

, had named Asoka since the birth of the child has made her " sorrow

less " His brother was named Vitasoka since the queen felt that the

birth of the second male child has ultimately put an end to her sorrows.

 

Asoka was a man of great tact.

 

There was a great revolt against the oppression by the officers in the

province of Taxila, who were a republic before being brought under the

rule of the empire of Bimbisara. Asoka was sent there as Viceroy to

quell the same, which he did to a great aplomb, without using much

force or inviting resentment from the people of Taxila. In fact, he

might have been fondly remembered into the later days as priyadarsi(?)

by these people, connected to Iranians, as evinced by an Aramaic

edict found in Taxila.

 

He was later sent to Ujjain as the regent there by his father.

The ceylone sources mention a 4 year interregnum between the demise of

his father and his ascension to the throne. This must be true since

Asoka had no less than 7 brothers contending for the throne, each one

of them being strong in his own right.

 

 

 

The same tact which was exhibited at Taxila was displayed by him in

his later years of rule, though not so openly . Romila Thapar once

said he is a ruler of great ambition.

 

 

I feel he used the concept of dharma, not for religious reasons but to

discipline people into his fold – In other words, he has used religion

as a political tool. This is apparent since most of his edicts are

found in gold bearing areas This has influenced the common man so much

that the guilds of artisans, mostly consisting of common people, have

heavily donated to Sangha (Amaravati and Ajanta epigraphy)

 

For example, how he uses carrot and stick method can be seen in one of

the famous edicts:

 

" Now the Beloved of the Gods thinks that, even if a person should

wrong him, the offense would be forgiven if it was possible to forgive

it. And the forest-folk who live in the dominions of the Beloved

of the Gods, even them he entreats and exhorts in regard to

their duty. It is hereby explained to them that, in spite of his

repentance, the Beloved of the Gods possesses power enough

39

to punish them for their crimes, so that they should turn away

from evil ways and would not be killed for their crimes. "

 

That he did not place the edict of his repentance due to the kalinga

war, which has been placed in many places anywhere in or around

Kalinga country raises many doubts about the sincerity of his

repentance. Why did he not want the people of Kalinga know about his

repentance?

 

He prohibited animal sacrifices and eating of meat even at his

palace. But by his own admission, the cooking of meat has continued

daily at a low level, obviously for the consumption of the king,

whereas he prevented most of the palace dwellers from partaking meat.

 

Also, he talked of respecting Brahmins and Sramanakas (monks, not

necessarily Buddhist) and he dedicated two caves to Ajivakas, perhaps

in the tradition of his mother., in the 12th year of his coronation,

much later to Kalinga war.

 

 

In view of this, it is often doubted the stories of his conversion are

ever true.

/message/117

 

He does not mention the names of Nyagrodha and Mogaliputta Tissa in

his edicts, who the Buddhist sources have eulogized as the main

preceptors for Asoka. On the other hand, these sources do not discuss

Kalinga war at all. The Buddhist sources say that Asoka got converted

to Buddhism in 4th year of his coronation, whereas as per his own

confession, Asoka started following as a lay upasaka (which does not

mean conversion) only after Kalinga war.

 

Further, his edicts also do not speak of his foreign missions, for

which Tissa was more responsible.

 

Perhaps, What is spoken by Buddhist sources may not be about Mauryan

Asoka but about somebody else, one immediate name that comes to my

mind is Asoka of Kashmir, who was mentioned in Raja Tarangini.

 

I invite comments from the group,

 

Kishore patnaik

[Guest guest]

> Asoka was a man of great tact.

>

> There was a great revolt against the oppression by the officers in the

> province of Taxila, who were a republic before being brought under the

> rule of the empire of Bimbisara. Asoka was sent there as Viceroy to

> quell the same, which he did to a great aplomb, without using much

> force or inviting resentment from the people of Taxila. In fact, he

> might have been fondly remembered into the later days as priyadarsi(?)

> by these people, connected to Iranians, as evinced by an Aramaic

> edict found in Taxila.

>

> He was later sent to Ujjain as the regent there by his father.

 

 

I have forgotten to mention that both Ujjain and Taxila are great

empires just 150 or 200 years before Asoka. I am yet to explore when

they have come under the aegis of Mauryans.

 

Kishore patnaik

[Guest guest]

hinducivilization , " amsharanx " <amsharanx

wrote:

 

One should be careful about many sources since some of these are

intended to tarnish whatever great India had.

 

I read a book by a author from Cambridge University ( as far as I

remember ) who wrote nothing but bad things about Ashoka. He wrote

that his treasury was empty when he was about to die. All the time

there were prayers in the palace and people were sick of it.

 

Next is about many Ashoka's - just like many Patanjalis or many Vyases.

 

India's verifiable historical remains and Brahmi script forming

sentences appear for the first time in edicts in Ashoka's time.

 

His construction of Highways with inns linking far flung areas of his

kingdom were unique contribution to the World Civilization.

 

Yes, not much is known about three years before he ascended the throne

- probably due to power struggle.

 

Jains believe that he was a Jain before he converted to Buddhism. The

religion of Nandas could have been Jainism based on the discovery of a

Jain Temple in his palace which I came to know during my this year's

trip to Patna.

 

In a nut shell, it is entirely possible that all that is known to us -

was done by one person.

 

Regarding his religion before conversion to Buddhism, the lines were

not strictly drawn those days - across the religions.

 

Jainism was his grand father's ( Chandragupta Maurya's ) religion.

 

Thanks.

 

Anand M. Sharan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hinducivilization , " Kishore patnaik "

<kishorepatnaik02@> wrote:

>

> The various sources in history present a fascinating story of Asoka,

> the Mauryan king.

>

> Asoka was called by many names such as Devanam priya and priyadarsi.

> There are obviously many Asokas etc in history

>

> /message/64

>

> In fact, Priyadarsi as a title to Asoka is a misnomer, as Asoka was

> known to be ugly and hence, disliked by his father.

>

> Quote

> " The Sanskrit Divy & #257;vad & #257;na elaborates the ugly appearance

> and fierce nature of A & #347;oka and presents a grotesque and

> gruesome episode of how he converted his royal pleasance

> into a place of terror, horror, oppression and tragic deaths of

> the unwary visitors and passers-by through his agent Candagirika.

> 17 It also attributes to A & #347;oka the beheading of 500 ministers

> with his own sword and the burning to death of 500 court

> ladies. The Chinese A & #347;ok & #257;vad & #257;na resorts to higher

levels of

> poetical imagination in representing A & #347;oka as a most wicked

> character. "

>

> Unquote

>

>

> The name of his mother is mentioned as Janapada Kalyani, which was

> also the name of an unfortunate bride married to Nanda, the Sankya

> prince who Buddha has converted to a monk on the night of his marriage.

>

> In any case, it is apparent that Asoka's mother is a Brahmin, coming

> from the banks of River Champa, perhaps married to Bindusara on his

> campaigns to Anga, the country of Bihar lying on the other side of the

> river. Some sources mention her name as Dharma, a disciple of Ajivaka

> preceptor Jan & #257;sana (Jar & #257;sana, Jarasona, skt : :Pingalavatsa)

>

>

> Some people cling to his obviously false connection to a Greek

> mother, perhaps because of the romanticism that is offered by such a

> connection.

>

> His mother, fallen out of grace with the king due to palace intrigues

> , had named Asoka since the birth of the child has made her " sorrow

> less " His brother was named Vitasoka since the queen felt that the

> birth of the second male child has ultimately put an end to her

sorrows.

>

> Asoka was a man of great tact.

>

> There was a great revolt against the oppression by the officers in the

> province of Taxila, who were a republic before being brought under the

> rule of the empire of Bimbisara. Asoka was sent there as Viceroy to

> quell the same, which he did to a great aplomb, without using much

> force or inviting resentment from the people of Taxila. In fact, he

> might have been fondly remembered into the later days as priyadarsi(?)

> by these people, connected to Iranians, as evinced by an Aramaic

> edict found in Taxila.

>

> He was later sent to Ujjain as the regent there by his father.

> The ceylone sources mention a 4 year interregnum between the demise of

> his father and his ascension to the throne. This must be true since

> Asoka had no less than 7 brothers contending for the throne, each one

> of them being strong in his own right.

>

>

>

> The same tact which was exhibited at Taxila was displayed by him in

> his later years of rule, though not so openly . Romila Thapar once

> said he is a ruler of great ambition.

>

>

> I feel he used the concept of dharma, not for religious reasons but to

> discipline people into his fold †" In other words, he has used religion

> as a political tool. This is apparent since most of his edicts are

> found in gold bearing areas This has influenced the common man so much

> that the guilds of artisans, mostly consisting of common people, have

> heavily donated to Sangha (Amaravati and Ajanta epigraphy)

>

> For example, how he uses carrot and stick method can be seen in one of

> the famous edicts:

>

> " Now the Beloved of the Gods thinks that, even if a person should

> wrong him, the offense would be forgiven if it was possible to forgive

> it. And the forest-folk who live in the dominions of the Beloved

> of the Gods, even them he entreats and exhorts in regard to

> their duty. It is hereby explained to them that, in spite of his

> repentance, the Beloved of the Gods possesses power enough

> 39

> to punish them for their crimes, so that they should turn away

> from evil ways and would not be killed for their crimes. "

>

> That he did not place the edict of his repentance due to the kalinga

> war, which has been placed in many places anywhere in or around

> Kalinga country raises many doubts about the sincerity of his

> repentance. Why did he not want the people of Kalinga know about his

> repentance?

>

> He prohibited animal sacrifices and eating of meat even at his

> palace. But by his own admission, the cooking of meat has continued

> daily at a low level, obviously for the consumption of the king,

> whereas he prevented most of the palace dwellers from partaking meat.

>

> Also, he talked of respecting Brahmins and Sramanakas (monks, not

> necessarily Buddhist) and he dedicated two caves to Ajivakas, perhaps

> in the tradition of his mother., in the 12th year of his coronation,

> much later to Kalinga war.

>

>

> In view of this, it is often doubted the stories of his conversion are

> ever true.

> /message/117

>

> He does not mention the names of Nyagrodha and Mogaliputta Tissa in

> his edicts, who the Buddhist sources have eulogized as the main

> preceptors for Asoka. On the other hand, these sources do not discuss

> Kalinga war at all. The Buddhist sources say that Asoka got converted

> to Buddhism in 4th year of his coronation, whereas as per his own

> confession, Asoka started following as a lay upasaka (which does not

> mean conversion) only after Kalinga war.

>

> Further, his edicts also do not speak of his foreign missions, for

> which Tissa was more responsible.

>

> Perhaps, What is spoken by Buddhist sources may not be about Mauryan

> Asoka but about somebody else, one immediate name that comes to my

> mind is Asoka of Kashmir, who was mentioned in Raja Tarangini.

>

> I invite comments from the group,

>

> Kishore patnaik

>

 

--- End forwarded message ---

[Guest guest]

hinducivilization , " Kishore patnaik "

<kishorepatnaik02 wrote:

 

Dear Dr Anand,

 

I am too happy to see your mail. Hope we would be in touch more

frequently.

 

It is too premature for me to say anything but one thing with horror

I notice with regard to every period - be it Vedic period, be it

Harappan times, be it Jorwe culture, be it Mauryans, be it Guptas-

that more questions remain unanswered than explained.

 

Very unfortunately, these questions are the ones which seriously point

out the contradictions in the models hitherto built.

 

The western historians are least interested in creating a viable

Historiography model of Indian ancient past and the career

professionals are simply following them.

 

Consequently, the only concentration of the present history studies

was on how to deny the originality of anything Indian and how to deny

its antiquity. Just nothing more or nothing less.

 

Today, you write an article that RV was written only just before

Britishers came into India, you will not be condemned but if you are

forceful enough, people would say your article is path breaking paving

fresh ground for research! But you write an article with enough arch,

astro and liturgical proofs establishing that war of MBh was fought in

4th millennium, you are no more than a Hindutva vadin - no matter who

you have voted in the last elections!!!

 

Now, coming back to our story, it may be too premature for me to say

anything right now but let me share my immediate impressions, which

are subject to discussions and changes.

 

There are three Asokas in the history whose identity has to be

established:

 

1. The Mauryan king Asoka vardhana, as described in Puranas. I am not

sure if anything was told about Asoka vardhana by puranas, even though

he has ruled the longest in his dynasty

 

2. The Bauddhist king Asoka(Tissa?) as described in the various

Buddhist and Jain works. Clearly, they try to mostly identify Asoka

with with Asoka Vardhana but it is possible that the writers are

confused since these works were composed centuries after Asoka

 

3. Priyadarsi, the king of edicts who was supposed to be dear to the

gods and of course, just once he calls himself Asoka (in the edict of

Maski)

 

Apart from this, we have in a minor way, the Asoka from Raja

tarangini, which is perhaps the most authentic work.

 

In any case, we see that all the three kings differ in their nature

and dating.

 

The full name of Asoka Vardhana, a princely name is not mentioned

anywhere else - either in non puranic sources or the edicts. While

so0mebuddhist literature does identify the lineage of asoka as mauryan

and name his father as bindusara(as did the puranas), largely the name

of the father of asoka keeps changing in this literature. Even where

it is identified with Mauryan Bindusara, the writers must have got

confused.

 

The king of edicts is a totally different person from the Asoka of

buddhist literature. That both are buddhists is the only common point.

There is no Kalinga war mentioned in the buddhist literature. The

asoka of Buddhists was a cruel sadist who was brought to the path of

Buddhism by various monks as soon as he has taken over or at best, 4

years after his coronation. After his conversion, Asoka was intolerant

of other religions and killed even his own brother, whom he has spared

earlier, suspecting that he is following a heretic Buddha school.

 

One of the above kings is so ugly that the name priyadarsi is a

misnomer.

 

On the other hand, the edicts clearly mention that the king has taken

to Buddhism in the 8th year of his coronation, following the war of

Kalinga. He was highly tolerant of other religions, advising his

people to respect brahmins and he has made donations to ajivakas in

the 12th/13th year and perhaps, in 19th year of his coronation, which

is much later to his conversion.

 

The king of edicts is clearly highly tactful and diplomatic, never a

sadist. He was a shrewd and ambitious ruler- he annexed Kalinga only

to have control of sea faring business routes. He has used religion as

a matter of tool to discipline people, most of the important edicts

being in the gold bearing areas of India. His repentance may be more

of a farce since the famous edict announcing his remorse was never

found in Kalinga or the area around it. Not just this, his hypocracy

is clearly mentioned in the likes of edicts where he confesses that he

continued to eat meat, even as he entreated others, including the

staff and other residents of the Royal palace to convert to

vegetarianism. That most of his tactics are to get the maximum out of

trade routes is very obvious. That kings concentrated highly on trade

routes is a trade mark of around Guptan kings.

 

(The deterioration of such concentration in Harsha's time has led to

decline of cities on one hand and increase in self reliance of

villages. This has proved to be a heavy hurdle for further

economic/urban development)

 

If you follow the traditionalists' chronology, we can say that Asoka

vardhana was existing much earlier to Greek invasion. Also, the

traditionalists identify Sandrocottus with Chandra gupta I. This will

make the Asoka of Edicts a king around the times of Guptans,as pointed

by his way of dealing.

 

Thus, clearly Devanam piya/piyadarsi who have inscribed all the famous

edicts is not a Mauryan king. There are many other arguments in favor

of this statement. which I will keep it for future.

 

I am yet to identify whether the Asoka described by Buddhists and

others is one of these two or not.

 

I would be happy to hear from you and others.

 

best regards,

 

Kishore patnaik

 

--- End forwarded message ---