pura

[Guest guest]

REcently, EJVS has published an article by Rainer Stuhrmann, a german by enthnicity on Puras.Rainer is the same person who has written about soma about 23 years ago,dismissing the books of vedas as ones composed in hallucination created as a result of inebriation. (if such things are written about any other religion, I shudder what could have been the fate of the writer) While the article itself is in German, Michael Witzel has translated the summary into english and presented at the beginning of the article.

Meanwhile, I have the following message on the listserve group which is rather interesting though it is certainly anti India in its tone

 

Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:03:20 EDT

Indology <[log in to unmask]>

Sender: Indology <[log in to unmask]>

Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <[log in to unmask]>

An interpretation of RV " pura " made of " ayas "

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

 

Yesterday, I read the review of " The Indo-Aryans of Ancient South Asia:

Language, Material Culture, and Ethnicity " in the Journal of the American

Oriental Society 118.1 (1998), pp.120-121, by Greg Possehl. In the review,

Possehl says, " The Rgveda does refer to places as pur, " walled, " a " fort " or a

" stronghold. " There is a reference to places of this sort as being of metal

or ayas. "

 

In light of Michael Witzel's discussions on the meaning of RV ayas as actually

meaning copper or perhaps bronze, anybody familiar with Classical and post-

Classical Tamil literature cannot but be struck by the implications of the RV

pura of ayas. I think one might have to revisit the view that Vedic texts " do

not know of cities or towns but speak, instead, of ruined places where one

might collect potsherds for ritual purposes. " (Michael Witzel in Early Indian

history: Linguistic and textual parameters, p.98, in Indo-Aryans of Ancient

south Asia)

 

Some of the instances of RV pura made of ayas are given below. (Source: John

Gardner's Vedavid web site)

 

prati yadasya vajraM bAhvordhurhatvI dasyUn pura AyasIrni tArIt || (RV

2.20.8.2)

 

shatam mA pura AyasIr arakSann adha shyeno javasA nir adIyam || (RV 4.2.1.2)

 

manojavA ayamAna AyasImatarat puram | (RV 8.89.8.1in Griffith RV 8.100.8.1 in

Vedavid web site)

 

A misinterpretation of ayas as iron led Griffith to explain the last example

as referring to the stronghold or cloud in which Soma or ambrosial rain was

imprisoned. If ayas meant copper, the interpretation " cloud " is not correct.

 

The pura made of ayas seems to be a translation of a longstanding Dravidian

literary device to describe a brick fort. Consider the following examples from

Tamil texts. The Tamil texts will be followed by necessary translation.

 

cempu uRaz puricai cemmal mUtUr (puR. 37.11)

 

" The prominent old city/town with copper-like fort " . Please note the obvious

etymological connection of " puricai " with " pura " .

 

cempu iyan2Ran2n2a ceJcuvar pun2aintu (matu.485)

 

" Having built a read wall as if made of copper "

 

We also have following examples where by the use of metonymy, the fort is said

to be made of copper.

 

cempu pun2aintu iyaRRiya cEN neTu puricai

uvarA Ikai tuvarai .. (puR.201.9-10)

 

" The city of tuvarai (dwAraka?) of non-exhausting philanthropyvery tall fort

made using copper "

 

The motif of forts like copper or made of copper can be found even in medieval

tamil texts.

 

cempu iTTuc ceyta ijncit tirunakar(kamparAmAyaNam 6.15.160.1)

 

" The auspicious town with a rampart made with copper "

 

What are these forts/walls made of which gave rise to the comparison with

copper? It is clear from the examples below.

 

nAL pali maRanta narai kaN iTTikai

puricai mUzkiya pori arai Alattu (aka.287.6-7)

 

Here an enclosing wall around a sacred banyan tree is mentioned. The wall

(puricai) is made of brick (iTTikai).

 

cempu iyan2Ran2n2a ceyvu uRu neTu cuvar (neT. 12)

 

" The tall wall made as if with copper'

 

iTTikai neTu cuvar (aka.167.13)

 

" The tall wall (made of) bricks "

 

A comparison of CT usages in neT.12 and aka.167.13 show that the bricks were

viewed as copper-like. The following post-CT text explicitly describes the

bricks (iTTikai) as red metal or copper-like (cempon2).

 

aLavu il cempon2 iTTikaikaL ALmEl neruGki aNi ArUrt (periyapurANam 3208.2)

 

Of course, the common word for brick in Tamil is ceGkal (red stone)

 

Why do I think that this literary device of describing a brick fort as copper

fort is Dravidian? For one thing, the bricks were not part of RV culture.

Secondly, if the concept was widely prevalent in the Sanskrit tradition, with

the long history of Vedic/Sanskrit scholarship, the correct interpretation for

pura made of ayas would have been arrived at by now. The fact that an

archaeologist such as Possehl (who would be expected to rely on the

interpretation of Vedic scholars) refer to forts made of metal suggests to me

that the Sanskrit scholars have not interpreted the usage as referring to

brick forts. I am willing to be corrected on this.

 

Regards

S. Palaniappan

http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9808 & L=indology & D=1 & F= & S= & P=8901

 

-- Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within the reach of every hand.~:~ Mother Theresa ~:~

[Guest guest]

> * Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan*

>

>

> *Why do I think that this literary device of describing a brick

fort as

> copper*

>

> *fort is Dravidian? For one thing, the bricks were not part of RV

culture.*

>

> * *

> *

 

 

Pity for Palaniappan, but if the same expression is used in the Rg-

Veda, and again 2000 years later in the Tamil classics, this no

indication for a Dravidian origin. A borrowing from Skt into Tamil

is obviously more likely.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

KE

[Guest guest]

 

 

Pity for Palaniappan, but if the same expression is used in the Rg-

Veda, and again 2000 years later in the Tamil classics, this no

indication for a Dravidian origin. A borrowing from Skt into Tamil

is obviously more likely.Also, I don't think it is right to say that Vedic people did not know bricks. The skt word for brick is

shtuka ( Ituka in Telugu and ittikai in Tamil) best regards, Kishore patnaik