Guest guest Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 On Wed, 26 Aug 2009, wrote: > As for your view that it is the genitals, I would not say you are all > wrong in your interpretaion.In my view, at the most you are 20 percent > right whereas Vivekananda is 80 percent right. Please read what I wrote carefully. I said there is an erotic _component_ in the symbolism of Shiva-Shakti. Of course there is a lot more to it than this. I would be quite happy to be only 20% right about this. Vivekananda is 100% wrong though. > 1.You are a priest and he is a prophet. Priests like to refer to books > and prophets like to experience the facts themselves. The prophets are > always higher than the priests who have no experience but only book > knowledge. Or rather " priests " apply logic and received traditions to books whereas " prophets " (a category which doesn't exist in Hinduism) make things up out of their own fevered imagination. It's the prophetic mentality that makes people believe that the earth was made in 6 days or a muslim tomb is a temple. > 2.Being a sanyasi,I cannot imagine he did not know the true meaning of > the linga.Since shiva linga is the main inspiration for the sanyasis. For the astika sannyasis yes. However Vivekananda simply took up the saffron robes on his own without any diksha after the death of Ramakrishna. (which is why I don't use the honorific Swami with his name.) That doesn't make him a bad man or not commendable in other ways but it should cause one to think twice before treating his opinions as authoritative. Still I think he knew alright. Vamachari Tantrism is the national religion of Bengal and it contains a lot more explicit sexual symbolism than just linga-yoni. It was his cultural background that led him to supress the truth not a lack of knowledge. > Please know that Shiva linga is not experienced at the genitals but is > experienced at the top of the head after practising brahmacharya > dharma for a long time. Actually even at the muladhara chakra kundalini is visualized resting wrapped around a shivalinga. As for brahmacharya I agree with you but do you think people who are frightened by the mere mention of lingas and yonis can call themselves brahmacharis? > In fact, only after a person completes his > karmayoga and gets the darshan of the compeletion of the story of Sati > and shiva, then one gets the darshan of Shiva linga.You may have read > how the jyotir lingas appear only after the body parts of Sati falls > along, part by part, while Shiva weeping carries her dead body. Um that's the origin of the Shakti pithas not the jyotirlingas. > From this you will see that sex and Shiva linga is in many ways > opposite.When you control sex you get the darshan of shiva linga, not > by following sex desire, but by its control.In fact why brahmacharya > dharma is needed to travel on the spiritual path, which is Shiva's > path? I agree but what does that have to do with the subject under discussion? > 3.To substantiate through my general knowlege that Yupa is the origin > of Shiva linga, I will site one example . When the animal is > sacrificed or beheaded on the yupa or maulo with the head tied to it, > the body of the animal falls down and the head hangs to the yupa.That > positon with the head hanging on the yupa is also in my view, Note the current practices of animal sacrifice in Nepal and Eastern India are tantrokta not vedokta. In the vedokta rites, the pashu is only tied up at the yupa not killed there. -- Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Dear Jaldhar H. Vyasji, The erotic component may not be comletely denied.This seeems to be more due to the proximity to the sex centres in the brain.Shiva is more for destroying the world by imparting the knowledge of the Self, rather than creating the world.Thus purush and prakriti are more spiritual things say God and nature, rather than the physical senses of procreation. Shiva linga for me is more representative of the formless spirit rather than the physical organism. Muladhar chakra is not the sex chakra althogh it is close by.It is more Kanya kumari and the Ashok Batika where Sita is kept by Ravan.It represents the state of sleep and thus the name of 'ashok'.If Ravan represents lust,then Rameshwar Shiva linga is the conqueror of lust.It is a different thing that we have to go to where lust is situated, to conquer it, i.e. Ram has to go to Lanka.Thus the victory of Ram is the victory over lust, by the purity of character and celebacy or brahmacharya dharma or with the help of Rameshwar Shiva linga.It is the conquest of the Atma over the physical body and not the other way round. In Vivekananda's explanation of Linga being yupa rather than sex organs, I think in the practical sense, he was more right and was the correct thing to do. About the priest and the prophet,I feel genuine sanyasis or yogis are prophets and the Brahmins are priestly, in general.The siddhas have experienced the truth and are the very rishis who have created the books.The priests on the other hand only try to follow these books and have a hard time understanding the contents due to lack of experiences. thank you, Hari Malla , " Jaldhar H. Vyas " <jaldhar wrote: > > On Wed, 26 Aug 2009, wrote: > > > As for your view that it is the genitals, I would not say you are all > > wrong in your interpretaion.In my view, at the most you are 20 percent > > right whereas Vivekananda is 80 percent right. > > Please read what I wrote carefully. I said there is an erotic _component_ > in the symbolism of Shiva-Shakti. Of course there is a lot more to it > than this. I would be quite happy to be only 20% right about this. > > Vivekananda is 100% wrong though. > > > > 1.You are a priest and he is a prophet. Priests like to refer to books > > and prophets like to experience the facts themselves. The prophets are > > always higher than the priests who have no experience but only book > > knowledge. > > Or rather " priests " apply logic and received traditions to books whereas > " prophets " (a category which doesn't exist in Hinduism) make things up out > of their own fevered imagination. It's the prophetic mentality that makes > people believe that the earth was made in 6 days or a muslim tomb is a > temple. > > > 2.Being a sanyasi,I cannot imagine he did not know the true meaning of > > the linga.Since shiva linga is the main inspiration for the sanyasis. > > For the astika sannyasis yes. However Vivekananda simply took up the > saffron robes on his own without any diksha after the death of > Ramakrishna. (which is why I don't use the honorific Swami with his > name.) That doesn't make him a bad man or not commendable in other ways > but it should cause one to think twice before treating his opinions as > authoritative. > > Still I think he knew alright. Vamachari Tantrism is the national > religion of Bengal and it contains a lot more explicit sexual symbolism > than just linga-yoni. It was his cultural background that led him to > supress the truth not a lack of knowledge. > > > Please know that Shiva linga is not experienced at the genitals but is > > experienced at the top of the head after practising brahmacharya > > dharma for a long time. > > Actually even at the muladhara chakra kundalini is visualized resting > wrapped around a shivalinga. > > As for brahmacharya I agree with you but do you think people who are > frightened by the mere mention of lingas and yonis can call themselves > brahmacharis? > > > In fact, only after a person completes his > > karmayoga and gets the darshan of the compeletion of the story of Sati > > and shiva, then one gets the darshan of Shiva linga.You may have read > > how the jyotir lingas appear only after the body parts of Sati falls > > along, part by part, while Shiva weeping carries her dead body. > > Um that's the origin of the Shakti pithas not the jyotirlingas. > > > From this you will see that sex and Shiva linga is in many ways > > opposite.When you control sex you get the darshan of shiva linga, not > > by following sex desire, but by its control.In fact why brahmacharya > > dharma is needed to travel on the spiritual path, which is Shiva's > > path? > > I agree but what does that have to do with the subject under discussion? > > > 3.To substantiate through my general knowlege that Yupa is the origin > > of Shiva linga, I will site one example . When the animal is > > sacrificed or beheaded on the yupa or maulo with the head tied to it, > > the body of the animal falls down and the head hangs to the yupa.That > > positon with the head hanging on the yupa is also in my view, > > Note the current practices of animal sacrifice in Nepal and Eastern India > are tantrokta not vedokta. In the vedokta rites, the pashu is only tied > up at the yupa not killed there. > > -- > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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