Visnu and Shiva

[Guest guest]

Hello, everyone.

 

I need some help. Today, at the markets, I stopped by at a stall owned

and run by a local member of the ISKCON. She takes in boarders of the

movement whenever they are in town and today there was a young lady at

the stall as well. This young lady recognised the beads about my throat

and asked me if I were Buddhist. When I said no, she pointed to the

beads and said that she had seen them on worn by worshippers of

something-or-other. I told her, yes, I worship Shiva and rudraksha are

are known as the tears of Shiva. All was going well until she said 'but

Vishnu is God, Shiva is only a demi-god, because Shiva worships Vishnu.'

 

Now, I have encountered this quite a lot and I usually use the story of

Vishnu plucking out his eye when there were not enough lotuses to

complete his daily worship of Shiva as an example that Vishnu also

worships Shiva. I don't think that story is in the Bhagavad Gita, which

the ISKCON movement uses as its bible and the idea that Vishnu worships

Shiva seemed to disgust her and when I said that Shiva and Vishnu are

simply two different forms of the same source she got confrontational.

'What about Brahma?' she asked, "what's he?" And this is where I hit my

problem and why I need some help. Shiva said that Brahma would not be

worshipped because his pride led to him lying but in the end I walked

away because I could not articulate what I felt.

 

Worship of one or the other is not important, what is important

is that you do worship. Shiva has said that worship of Vishnu

is worship of him and I suspect that Vishnu has said the same thing. If

they're both saying the same thing, why do people get so upset

when you mention that you worship Shiva instead of Vishnu? And how can

you explain to them, so that they can understand, that worship of Shiva

is worship of Vishnu and vice-verse?

 

Thank you, everyone

Casey

[Guest guest]

Fundamentalists are there even among Shaivites and Vaishnavites but

fortunately in minuscule minority.They believe in the supremacy of

their 'Isht Deva' and others as pagan.It is no use trying to reason

with them since nothing registers on their closed mind acting as a

reflective barrier.It is best to 'forget and forgive' them proceed

ahead.

 

N Bhashyam

 

N BHashyam

On 5/17/09, Casey <zziegamp wrote:

> Hello, everyone.

>

> I need some help. Today, at the markets, I stopped by at a stall owned

> and run by a local member of the ISKCON. She takes in boarders of the

> movement whenever they are in town and today there was a young lady at

> the stall as well. This young lady recognised the beads about my throat

> and asked me if I were Buddhist. When I said no, she pointed to the

> beads and said that she had seen them on worn by worshippers of

> something-or-other. I told her, yes, I worship Shiva and rudraksha are

> are known as the tears of Shiva. All was going well until she said 'but

> Vishnu is God, Shiva is only a demi-god, because Shiva worships Vishnu.'

>

> Now, I have encountered this quite a lot and I usually use the story of

> Vishnu plucking out his eye when there were not enough lotuses to

> complete his daily worship of Shiva as an example that Vishnu also

> worships Shiva. I don't think that story is in the Bhagavad Gita, which

> the ISKCON movement uses as its bible and the idea that Vishnu worships

> Shiva seemed to disgust her and when I said that Shiva and Vishnu are

> simply two different forms of the same source she got confrontational.

> 'What about Brahma?' she asked, " what's he? " And this is where I hit my

> problem and why I need some help. Shiva said that Brahma would not be

> worshipped because his pride led to him lying but in the end I walked

> away because I could not articulate what I felt.

>

> Worship of one or the other is not important, what /is/ important is

> that you /do/ worship. Shiva has said that worship of Vishnu is worship

> of him and I suspect that Vishnu has said the same thing. If they're

> /both/ saying the same thing, why do people get so upset when you

> mention that you worship Shiva instead of Vishnu? And how can you

> explain to them, so that they can understand, that worship of Shiva is

> worship of Vishnu and vice-verse?

>

> Thank you, everyone

> Casey

>

[Guest guest]

JAI MAA,SHIV IS SUPREME BEING, SHIV IS IT , SHIV TATVA– ETERNAL SAMADHI.Do not confuse yourself with SHIV and BrahmaVishnu and Mahesh, the trinity who manifested themselves from SHIV. Out of SHIVTANDAV came trimurti. Tandavarepresents five activities called shrishti or creation, sthiti orpreservation, samhara or destruction, tirobhava or illusion and anugrahaor salvation. When churned carefully, the first three activities are the threedivine acts of Trimurti God Shiva called of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar, thecreator, sustainer and transformer. This is to destroy the illusion of MAYA.What I wouldsuggest look at a picture of NATRAJ or ARDHANARISWAR where you will find entireuniverse is emanating for the COSMIC DANCE. All Sanskrit letters emanated from thisANANADTANDAV. Read the inner truth ofNATRAJ and your doubts will disappear.Actually the "knowledgeof the Gita" is the subtle part of the "dance of Shiva". Nataraja is theconquest of light over darkness by the imbibing and inculcating the knowledgeof the Gita. Therefore, firstly, the purification of all souls with the danceof "knowledge of the Gita" is the subtle part of the "dance ofShiva". Secondly the cooperation of the elements to cleanse themselvesthrough floods, hurricanes, earthquakes and fire are the physical part of the"dance of Shiva", called Nataraja or the cosmic dance. Nataraja,therefore is the dance of knowledge for the transformation to a pure world andthe re-establishment of Dharma.The 14th day of the dark half ofevery month (the time of the new moon) is called Shivrati, or "the nightof Shiva." Once a year, during the month of Magha (usually February orMarch on the western calendar), this night is called Maha Shivaratri, whichmeans "the great night of Shiva."According to our Purana, it wason this day that Shiva first manifested as the linga or a Jyotipoonja in aneffort to break up an argument between Brahma and Vishnu over who as the superiorgod. In the form of a huge column of fire, Shiva demonstrated superiority overboth of them.Meditation is theart of perfect unlimited concentration whereas Samadhi is science of deep andintense yoga with God. To reach this stage one must be detached from theinfluence and attraction of this world. One must have sovereignty over the fivesenses, the five elements and the five vices. The deerskin is only symbolic ofthe conquest, sovereignty and stability of the mind. The "kalagni"ordered by Shivji is but the "intense fire of yoga" that is requiredto burn the negative or tamoguni sanskars, impure tendencies or bad habits ofthe soul. To eliminate every living thing by fire around the Holy Caveis not to physically destroy the biological environment but rather the power ofdetachment from this mundane world and the freedom from the bondage of desires.This is the principle called "vairag" when there is no motive for thefruit of actions as well as attachment to the action, be it good or bad. Thisis summed up in Gita c5 where Arjuna asks God to explain which one is superior,the "yoga of knowledge" or the "yoga of action". Godreplies in c18v6, "Therefore, Arjuna, My considered and best opinion isthat these acts of sacrifice, gift, penance, and all other duties must beperformed relinquishing attachment and fruit', which is the qualities andattributes of a "karma yogi".There are many paths to spirituality andtruths; devotee may just believe that your own beliefs are true (and thusbetter), and want to spread the "truth." For whatever reasonthough, if you want to convince that person of your belief, you probably have atough job ahead of you.What I would suggest walkaway from these people like Goswami Tulasidas told mera bai. Mirabai , an ardent devotee of Lord Krishna wasunder tremendous pressure from the in-laws family; they were against her goingout of the palace or calling satsang inside the palace; even her saintlylife-style and engrossment in her devotion of Krishnawas unbearable to many of them. Helpless Meera wrote to her contemporarysaintly poet Goswami Tulasidas to advise her about what she should do; whatshould be her duty in those circumstances? Tulsidas explained to her that; such was thelaw of the world; circumstances don’t change according to one’s ideals orresolutions. One has to change one’s attitude, mental conditioning for thedesired results. In fact, he sent her a couplet of poetry thatsaid ––Jake Priya Na Rama Vaidehi, Tajiye Tahi KotiBairi Sama Yadyapi Param Sanehi |(Meaning: You should leave those who do notlove Lord Ram and Sita (Father-Mother God) even if they happen to be yournearest ones).जाके पà¥à¤°à¤¿à¤¯ न राम-बैदेही ।तजिये ताहि कोटि बैरी सम, जदà¥à¤¯à¤ªà¤¿ परम सनेही ॥ १ ॥ सो छाà¤à¤¡à¤¼à¤¿à¤¯à¥‡à¤¤à¤œà¥à¤¯à¥‹ पिता पà¥à¤°à¤¹à¤²à¤¾à¤¦, बिभीषन बंधà¥, भरत महतारी ।बलि गà¥à¤°à¥ तजà¥à¤¯à¥‹ कंत बà¥à¤°à¤œ-बनितनà¥à¤¹à¤¿, भये मà¥à¤¦-मंगलकारी ॥ २ ॥ नाते नेह रामके मनियत सà¥à¤¹à¥ƒà¤¦ सà¥à¤¸à¥‡à¤¬à¥à¤¯ जहाठलों ।अंजन कहा आà¤à¤–ि जेहि फूटै, बहà¥à¤¤à¤• कहौं कहाठलौं ॥ ३ ॥ तà¥à¤²à¤¸à¤¿ सो सब भाà¤à¤¤à¤¿ परम हित पूजà¥à¤¯ पà¥à¤°à¤¾à¤¨à¤¤à¥‡ पà¥à¤¯à¤¾à¤°à¥‹ ।जासों होय सनेह राम-पद, à¤à¤¤à¥‹ मतो हमारो ॥ ४ ॥In the end Goswamiji saidAISO MATO HAMARO.Gururbrahmaa gururvishnuh gururdevo Maheswarah |Guruh-saakshaat parabrahma tasmai shrigurave namah || Om,Rajyalaxmi From: zziegampDate: Sun, 17 May 2009 20:01:24 +0930 Visnu and ShivaHello, everyone. I need some help. Today, at the markets, I stopped by at a stall ownedand run by a local member of the ISKCON. She takes in boarders of themovement whenever they are in town and today there was a young lady atthe stall as well. This young lady recognised the beads about my throatand asked me if I were Buddhist. When I said no, she pointed to thebeads and said that she had seen them on worn by worshippers ofsomething-or-other. I told her, yes, I worship Shiva and rudraksha areare known as the tears of Shiva. All was going well until she said 'butVishnu is God, Shiva is only a demi-god, because Shiva worships Vishnu.'Now, I have encountered this quite a lot and I usually use the story ofVishnu plucking out his eye when there were not enough lotuses tocomplete his daily worship of Shiva as an example that Vishnu alsoworships Shiva. I don't think that story is in the Bhagavad Gita, whichthe ISKCON movement uses as its bible and the idea that Vishnu worshipsShiva seemed to disgust her and when I said that Shiva and Vishnu aresimply two different forms of the same source she got confrontational.'What about Brahma?' she asked, "what's he?" And this is where I hit myproblem and why I need some help. Shiva said that Brahma would not beworshipped because his pride led to him lying but in the end I walkedaway because I could not articulate what I felt. Worship of one or the other is not important, what is importantis that you do worship. Shiva has said that worship of Vishnuis worship of him and I suspect that Vishnu has said the same thing. Ifthey're both saying the same thing, why do people get so upsetwhen you mention that you worship Shiva instead of Vishnu? And how canyou explain to them, so that they can understand, that worship of Shivais worship of Vishnu and vice-verse?Thank you, everyoneCaseyInsert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. See how.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for replying so quickly.

 

Yes, I thought perhaps it would be better to forgive and forget and

that is another reason why I walked away from the young woman.

Closed-mindedness in anyone is very painful to me but I understand that

it is not my job to open their minds under most circumstances.

 

Sincerely

Casey

 

Fundamentalists are there even among Shaivites and Vaishnavites but

fortunately in minuscule minority.They believe in the supremacy of

their 'Isht Deva' and others as pagan.It is no use trying to reason

with them since nothing registers on their closed mind acting as a

reflective barrier.It is best to 'forget and forgive' them proceed

ahead.

N Bhashyam

N BHashyam

On 5/17/09, Casey <zziegamp wrote:

 

 

Hello, everyone.

I need some help. Today, at the markets, I stopped by at a stall owned

and run by a local member of the ISKCON. She takes in boarders of the

movement whenever they are in town and today there was a young lady at

the stall as well. This young lady recognised the beads about my throat

and asked me if I were Buddhist. When I said no, she pointed to the

beads and said that she had seen them on worn by worshippers of

something-or-other. I told her, yes, I worship Shiva and rudraksha are

are known as the tears of Shiva. All was going well until she said 'but

Vishnu is God, Shiva is only a demi-god, because Shiva worships Vishnu.'

Now, I have encountered this quite a lot and I usually use the story of

Vishnu plucking out his eye when there were not enough lotuses to

complete his daily worship of Shiva as an example that Vishnu also

worships Shiva. I don't think that story is in the Bhagavad Gita, which

the ISKCON movement uses as its bible and the idea that Vishnu worships

Shiva seemed to disgust her and when I said that Shiva and Vishnu are

simply two different forms of the same source she got confrontational.

'What about Brahma?' she asked, "what's he?" And this is where I hit my

problem and why I need some help. Shiva said that Brahma would not be

worshipped because his pride led to him lying but in the end I walked

away because I could not articulate what I felt.

Worship of one or the other is not important, what /is/ important is

that you /do/ worship. Shiva has said that worship of Vishnu is worship

of him and I suspect that Vishnu has said the same thing. If they're

/both/ saying the same thing, why do people get so upset when you

mention that you worship Shiva instead of Vishnu? And how can you

explain to them, so that they can understand, that worship of Shiva is

worship of Vishnu and vice-verse?

Thank you, everyone

Casey

 

 

 

---

 

[Guest guest]

Pranams to all Shiv Bhaktas,

People can hold any opinion and try to back it up from the scriptures. You are

also free to hold an opinion. Anyway, I will state below proof from Geeta and

Vedas about the oneness of Vishnu and Shiva.

 

1) Kaivalya Upanishat (Atharvana Veda) mantra :

sa brahma sa shivaha sa indraha soakshara paramaha svarata

sa eva vishnu sa pranaha sa kalogni sa chandramaha

 

Translation : He is Brahma, He is Shiva, He is Indra, He is the Immutable, the

Supreme, the Self-luminous, He alone is Vishnu, He is Prana, He is Time and

Fire, He is the Moon.

 

2) Bhagavad Gita chapter 10 verse 23

rudranam shankaraha

 

translation : Of all the Rudras I am Lord Siva;

 

 

regards,

Shailendra

 

, Casey <zziegamp wrote:

>

> Hello, everyone.

>

> I need some help. Today, at the markets, I stopped by at a stall owned

> and run by a local member of the ISKCON. She takes in boarders of the

> movement whenever they are in town and today there was a young lady at

> the stall as well. This young lady recognised the beads about my throat

> and asked me if I were Buddhist. When I said no, she pointed to the

> beads and said that she had seen them on worn by worshippers of

> something-or-other. I told her, yes, I worship Shiva and rudraksha are

> are known as the tears of Shiva. All was going well until she said 'but

> Vishnu is God, Shiva is only a demi-god, because Shiva worships Vishnu.'

>

> Now, I have encountered this quite a lot and I usually use the story of

> Vishnu plucking out his eye when there were not enough lotuses to

> complete his daily worship of Shiva as an example that Vishnu also

> worships Shiva. I don't think that story is in the Bhagavad Gita, which

> the ISKCON movement uses as its bible and the idea that Vishnu worships

> Shiva seemed to disgust her and when I said that Shiva and Vishnu are

> simply two different forms of the same source she got confrontational.

> 'What about Brahma?' she asked, " what's he? " And this is where I hit my

> problem and why I need some help. Shiva said that Brahma would not be

> worshipped because his pride led to him lying but in the end I walked

> away because I could not articulate what I felt.

>

> Worship of one or the other is not important, what /is/ important is

> that you /do/ worship. Shiva has said that worship of Vishnu is worship

> of him and I suspect that Vishnu has said the same thing. If they're

> /both/ saying the same thing, why do people get so upset when you

> mention that you worship Shiva instead of Vishnu? And how can you

> explain to them, so that they can understand, that worship of Shiva is

> worship of Vishnu and vice-verse?

>

> Thank you, everyone

> Casey

>

[Guest guest]

, Casey <zziegamp wrote:

 

>

> Worship of one or the other is not important, what /is/ important is

> that you /do/ worship.

 

Casey,

 

I think that you could have left the conversation with what you said above. As

for when people become confrontational, it would be wise to remember that we are

all one, dealing with individual karma and samskaras. It's not about taking a

stand and proving a point. Should you encounter this woman again, smile, be

pleasant, attentive, and if there are experiences to share they will come into

being of their own accord.

 

joanelyia

[Guest guest]

Gururbrahmaa gururvishnuh gururdevo Maheswarah | Guruh-saakshaat parabrahma tasmai shrigurave namah ||

 

GURURDEVO MAHESHWARAH seems to indicate the hierarchy. Any how it is an open question. Debate is welcome.

--- On Sun, 5/17/09, rajya laxmi <rajyalaxmi11 wrote:

rajya laxmi <rajyalaxmi11RE: Visnu and Shiva"om namah shiway" Sunday, May 17, 2009, 12:40 PM

 

 

JAI MAA,SHIV IS SUPREME BEING, SHIV IS IT , SHIV TATVA – ETERNAL SAMADHI.Do not confuse yourself with SHIV and Brahma Vishnu and Mahesh, the trinity who manifested themselves from SHIV. Out of SHIV TANDAV came trimurti. Tandava represents five activities called shrishti or creation, sthiti or preservation, samhara or destruction, tirobhava or illusion and anugraha or salvation. When churned carefully, the first three activities are the three divine acts of Trimurti God Shiva called of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar, the creator, sustainer and transformer. This is to destroy the illusion of MAYA.What I would suggest look at a picture of NATRAJ or ARDHANARISWAR where you will find entire universe is emanating for the COSMIC DANCE. All Sanskrit letters emanated from this

ANANADTANDAV. Read the inner truth of NATRAJ and your doubts will disappear.Actually the "knowledge of the Gita" is the subtle part of the "dance of Shiva". Nataraja is the conquest of light over darkness by the imbibing and inculcating the knowledge of the Gita. Therefore, firstly, the purification of all souls with the dance of "knowledge of the Gita" is the subtle part of the "dance of Shiva". Secondly the cooperation of the elements to cleanse themselves through floods, hurricanes, earthquakes and fire are the physical part of the "dance of Shiva", called Nataraja or the cosmic dance. Nataraja, therefore is the dance of knowledge for the transformation to a pure world and the re-establishment of Dharma.The 14th day of the dark half of every month (the time of

the new moon) is called Shivrati, or "the night of Shiva." Once a year, during the month of Magha (usually February or March on the western calendar), this night is called Maha Shivaratri, which means "the great night of Shiva."According to our Purana, it was on this day that Shiva first manifested as the linga or a Jyotipoonja in an effort to break up an argument between Brahma and Vishnu over who as the superior god. In the form of a huge column of fire, Shiva demonstrated superiority over both of them.Meditation is the art of perfect unlimited concentration whereas Samadhi is science of deep and intense yoga with God. To reach this stage one must be detached from the influence and attraction of this world. One must have sovereignty over the five senses, the five elements and the five vices. The deerskin is only symbolic of the conquest, sovereignty and

stability of the mind. The "kalagni" ordered by Shivji is but the "intense fire of yoga" that is required to burn the negative or tamoguni sanskars, impure tendencies or bad habits of the soul. To eliminate every living thing by fire around the Holy Cave is not to physically destroy the biological environment but rather the power of detachment from this mundane world and the freedom from the bondage of desires. This is the principle called "vairag" when there is no motive for the fruit of actions as well as attachment to the action, be it good or bad. This is summed up in Gita c5 where Arjuna asks God to explain which one is superior, the "yoga of knowledge" or the "yoga of action". God replies in c18v6, "Therefore, Arjuna, My considered and best opinion is that these acts of sacrifice, gift, penance, and all other duties must be performed relinquishing attachment and fruit', which is the qualities and attributes of a "karma yogi".There are many paths to spirituality and truths; devotee may just believe that your own beliefs are true (and thus better), and want to spread the "truth." For whatever reason though, if you want to convince that person of your belief, you probably have a tough job ahead of you.

What I would suggest walk away from these people like Goswami Tulasidas told mera bai.

Mirabai , an ardent devotee of Lord Krishna was under tremendous pressure from the in-laws family; they were against her going out of the palace or calling satsang inside the palace; even her saintly life-style and engrossment in her devotion of Krishna was unbearable to many of them. Helpless Meera wrote to her contemporary saintly poet Goswami Tulasidas to advise her about what she should do; what should be her duty in those circumstances? Tulsidas explained to her that; such was the law of the world; circumstances don’t change according to one’s ideals or resolutions. One has to change one’s attitude, mental conditioning for the desired results. In fact, he sent her a couplet of poetry that said ––Jake Priya Na Rama Vaidehi, Tajiye Tahi Koti Bairi Sama Yadyapi Param Sanehi |(Meaning: You should leave those who do not love Lord Ram and Sita (Father-Mother God) even if they happen to be your nearest ones).जाके पà¥à¤°à¤¿à¤¯ न राम-बैदेही ।तजिये ताहि कोटि बैरी सम, जदà¥à¤¯à¤ªà¤¿ परम सनेही ॥ १ ॥ सो छाà¤à¤¡à¤¼à¤¿à¤¯à¥‡à¤¤à¤œà¥à¤¯à¥‹ पिता पà¥à¤°à¤¹à¤²à¤¾à¤¦, बिभीषन बंधà¥, भरत महतारी ।बलि गà¥à¤°à¥ तजà¥à¤¯à¥‹ कंत बà¥à¤°à¤œ-बनितनà¥à¤¹à¤¿, भये मà¥à¤¦-मंगलकारी ॥ २ ॥ नाते नेह रामके मनियत सà¥à¤¹à¥ƒà¤¦ सà¥à¤¸à¥‡à¤¬à¥à¤¯ जहाठलों ।अंजन कहा आà¤à¤–ि

जेहि फूटै, बहà¥à¤¤à¤• कहौं कहाठलौं ॥ ३ ॥ तà¥à¤²à¤¸à¤¿ सो सब भाà¤à¤¤à¤¿ परम हित पूजà¥à¤¯ पà¥à¤°à¤¾à¤¨à¤¤à¥‡ पà¥à¤¯à¤¾à¤°à¥‹

।जासों होय सनेह राम-पद, à¤à¤¤à¥‹ मतो हमारो ॥ ४ ॥

In the end Goswamiji said AISO MATO HAMARO.Gururbrahmaa gururvishnuh gururdevo Maheswarah | Guruh-saakshaat parabrahma tasmai shrigurave namah || Om, Rajyalaxmi

 

om_namah_shivaya_ group@ s.comzziegamp (AT) bigpond (DOT) net..auSun, 17 May 2009 20:01:24 +0930[om_namah_shivaya_ group] Visnu and ShivaHello, everyone. I need some help. Today, at the markets, I stopped by at a stall owned and run by a local member of the ISKCON. She takes in boarders of the movement whenever they are in town and today there was a young lady at the stall as well. This young lady recognised the beads about my throat and asked me if I were Buddhist. When I said no, she pointed to the beads and said that she had seen them on worn by worshippers of something-or- other. I told her, yes, I worship Shiva and rudraksha are are known as the tears of Shiva. All was going well until she said 'but Vishnu is God, Shiva is only a demi-god, because Shiva worships Vishnu.'Now, I have encountered this quite a lot and I usually use the story of Vishnu plucking out his eye when there

were not enough lotuses to complete his daily worship of Shiva as an example that Vishnu also worships Shiva. I don't think that story is in the Bhagavad Gita, which the ISKCON movement uses as its bible and the idea that Vishnu worships Shiva seemed to disgust her and when I said that Shiva and Vishnu are simply two different forms of the same source she got confrontational. 'What about Brahma?' she asked, "what's he?" And this is where I hit my problem and why I need some help. Shiva said that Brahma would not be worshipped because his pride led to him lying but in the end I walked away because I could not articulate what I felt. Worship of one or the other is not important, what is important is that you do worship. Shiva has said that worship of Vishnu is worship of him and I suspect that Vishnu has said the same thing. If they're both saying the same thing, why do people get so upset when you mention that you worship

Shiva instead of Vishnu? And how can you explain to them, so that they can understand, that worship of Shiva is worship of Vishnu and vice-verse?Thank you, everyoneCasey

 

 

Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. See how.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Rajya laxmi ji,

Brahman can only be known from scriptures. All of what you said below could be

true but you need to furnish Vedic proof. Here is some proof below that all the

Gods and Goddesses described in the Vedas and Puranas are essentially one.

 

Ganapati Atharva Seersha upanishat :

tvameva sarvam khalvidam brahmasi tvameva pratyaksham tat tvam asi tvameva

kevalam karta se (Oh Bhagavan Ganapati you are brahma, you are verily that

(brahman, you alone are the doer etc)

 

Sri Rudram : namas taraaya (I bow to Bhagavan Rudra who is Pranav or Omkaar)

 

Purusha sooktam : purusha evadam sarvam (all this is the supreme purusha/Lord

Vishnu)

 

Durga Saptashati : chitti roopean ya kristnam etad vyapya sthitha jagat ...

(Mata pervades the universe in the form of consciousness, so Mata is Brahman)

 

So nobody can claim that one God is superior or beyond others. They all

represent THE ONE.

 

 

regards,

Shailendra

 

 

, rajya laxmi <rajyalaxmi11

wrote:

>

>

>

>

> JAI MAA,

>

>

>

>

>

> SHIV IS SUPREME BEING, SHIV IS IT , SHIV TATVA

> †" ETERNAL SAMADHI.

>

>

> Do not confuse yourself with SHIV and Brahma

> Vishnu and Mahesh, the trinity who manifested themselves from SHIV. Out of

SHIV

> TANDAV came trimurti. Tandava

> represents five activities called shrishti or creation, sthiti or

> preservation, samhara or destruction, tirobhava or illusion and anugraha

> or salvation. When churned carefully, the first three activities are the three

> divine acts of Trimurti God Shiva called of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar, the

> creator, sustainer and transformer. This is to destroy the illusion of MAYA.

>

>

> What I would

> suggest look at a picture of NATRAJ or ARDHANARISWAR where you will find

entire

> universe is emanating for the COSMIC DANCE. All Sanskrit letters emanated from

this

> ANANADTANDAV. Read the inner truth of

> NATRAJ and your doubts will disappear.

>

>

> Actually the " knowledge

> of the Gita " is the subtle part of the " dance of Shiva " .

>

>

> Nataraja is the

> conquest of light over darkness by the imbibing and inculcating the knowledge

> of the Gita. Therefore, firstly, the purification of all souls with the dance

> of " knowledge of the Gita " is the subtle part of the " dance of

> Shiva " . Secondly the cooperation of the elements to cleanse themselves

> through floods, hurricanes, earthquakes and fire are the physical part of the

> " dance of Shiva " , called Nataraja or the cosmic dance. Nataraja,

> therefore is the dance of knowledge for the transformation to a pure world and

> the re-establishment of Dharma.

>

>

> The 14th day of the dark half of

> every month (the time of the new moon) is called Shivrati, or " the night

> of Shiva. " Once a year, during the month of Magha (usually February or

> March on the western calendar), this night is called Maha Shivaratri, which

> means " the great night of Shiva. "

>

>

> According to our Purana, it was

> on this day that Shiva first manifested as the linga or a Jyotipoonja in an

> effort to break up an argument between Brahma and Vishnu over who as the

superior

> god. In the form of a huge column of fire, Shiva demonstrated superiority over

> both of them.

>

>

> Meditation is the

> art of perfect unlimited concentration whereas Samadhi is science of deep and

> intense yoga with God. To reach this stage one must be detached from the

> influence and attraction of this world. One must have sovereignty over the

five

> senses, the five elements and the five vices. The deerskin is only symbolic of

> the conquest, sovereignty and stability of the mind. The " kalagni "

> ordered by Shivji is but the " intense fire of yoga " that is required

> to burn the negative or tamoguni sanskars, impure tendencies or bad habits of

> the soul. To eliminate every living thing by fire around the Holy Cave

> is not to physically destroy the biological environment but rather the power

of

> detachment from this mundane world and the freedom from the bondage of

desires.

> This is the principle called " vairag " when there is no motive for the

> fruit of actions as well as attachment to the action, be it good or bad. This

> is summed up in Gita c5 where Arjuna asks God to explain which one is

superior,

> the " yoga of knowledge " or the " yoga of action " . God

> replies in c18v6, " Therefore, Arjuna, My considered and best opinion is

> that these acts of sacrifice, gift, penance, and all other duties must be

> performed relinquishing attachment and fruit', which is the qualities and

> attributes of a " karma yogi " .

>

>

> There are many paths to spirituality and

> truths; devotee may just believe that your own beliefs are true (and thus

> better), and want to spread the " truth. " For whatever reason

> though, if you want to convince that person of your belief, you probably have

a

> tough job ahead of you.

>

>

> What I would suggest walk

> away from these people like Goswami Tulasidas told mera bai.

>

>

>

> Mirabai , an ardent devotee of Lord Krishna was

> under tremendous pressure from the in-laws family; they were against her going

> out of the palace or calling satsang inside the palace; even her saintly

> life-style and engrossment in her devotion of Krishna

> was unbearable to many of them.

>

>

> Helpless Meera wrote to her contemporary

> saintly poet Goswami Tulasidas to advise her about what she should do; what

> should be her duty in those circumstances?

>

>

> Tulsidas explained to her that; such was the

> law of the world; circumstances don’t change according to one’s ideals or

> resolutions. One has to change one’s attitude, mental conditioning for the

> desired results.

>

>

> In fact, he sent her a couplet of poetry that

> said †" †"

>

>

> Jake Priya Na Rama Vaidehi, Tajiye Tahi Koti

> Bairi Sama Yadyapi Param Sanehi |

>

>

> (Meaning: You should leave those who do not

> love Lord Ram and Sita (Father-Mother God) even if they happen to be your

> nearest ones).

>

>

> जाके पà¥à¤°à¤¿à¤¯ न राम-बैदेही ।

>

> तजिये ताहि कोटि बैरी सम,

जदà¥à¤¯à¤ªà¤¿ परम सनेही ॥ १ ॥

>

>

> सो छाà¤à¤¡à¤¼à¤¿à¤¯à¥‡

>

> तजà¥à¤¯à¥‹ पिता पà¥à¤°à¤¹à¤²à¤¾à¤¦, बिभीषन

बंधà¥, भरत महतारी ।

>

> बलि गà¥à¤°à¥ तजà¥à¤¯à¥‹ कंत

बà¥à¤°à¤œ-बनितनà¥à¤¹à¤¿, भये

मà¥à¤¦-मंगलकारी ॥ २ ॥

>

>

> नाते नेह रामके मनियत सà¥à¤¹à¥ƒà¤¦

सà¥à¤¸à¥‡à¤¬à¥à¤¯ जहाठलों ।

>

> अंजन कहा आà¤à¤–ि जेहि फूटै, बहà¥à¤¤à¤•

कहौं कहाठलौं ॥ ३ ॥

>

>

> तà¥à¤²à¤¸à¤¿ सो सब भाà¤à¤¤à¤¿ परम हित

पूजà¥à¤¯ पà¥à¤°à¤¾à¤¨à¤¤à¥‡ पà¥à¤¯à¤¾à¤°à¥‹ ।

>

> जासों होय सनेह राम-पद, à¤à¤¤à¥‹ मतो

हमारो ॥ ४ ॥

>

>

> In the end Goswamiji said

> AISO MATO HAMARO.

>

>

> Gururbrahmaa gururvishnuh gururdevo Maheswarah |

>

> Guruh-saakshaat parabrahma tasmai shrigurave namah ||

>

>

>

> Om,

>

>

>

> Rajyalaxmi

>

>

>

>

> zziegamp

> Sun, 17 May 2009 20:01:24 +0930

> Visnu and Shiva

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Hello, everyone.

>

>

>

> I need some help. Today, at the markets, I stopped by at a stall owned

> and run by a local member of the ISKCON. She takes in boarders of the

> movement whenever they are in town and today there was a young lady at

> the stall as well. This young lady recognised the beads about my throat

> and asked me if I were Buddhist. When I said no, she pointed to the

> beads and said that she had seen them on worn by worshippers of

> something-or-other. I told her, yes, I worship Shiva and rudraksha are

> are known as the tears of Shiva. All was going well until she said 'but

> Vishnu is God, Shiva is only a demi-god, because Shiva worships Vishnu.'

>

>

>

> Now, I have encountered this quite a lot and I usually use the story of

> Vishnu plucking out his eye when there were not enough lotuses to

> complete his daily worship of Shiva as an example that Vishnu also

> worships Shiva. I don't think that story is in the Bhagavad Gita, which

> the ISKCON movement uses as its bible and the idea that Vishnu worships

> Shiva seemed to disgust her and when I said that Shiva and Vishnu are

> simply two different forms of the same source she got confrontational.

> 'What about Brahma?' she asked, " what's he? " And this is where I hit my

> problem and why I need some help. Shiva said that Brahma would not be

> worshipped because his pride led to him lying but in the end I walked

> away because I could not articulate what I felt.

>

>

>

> Worship of one or the other is not important, what is important

> is that you do worship. Shiva has said that worship of Vishnu

> is worship of him and I suspect that Vishnu has said the same thing. If

> they're both saying the same thing, why do people get so upset

> when you mention that you worship Shiva instead of Vishnu? And how can

> you explain to them, so that they can understand, that worship of Shiva

> is worship of Vishnu and vice-verse?

>

>

>

> Thank you, everyone

>

> Casey

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

_______________

> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®.

>

http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Q\

uickAdd1_052009

>

[Guest guest]

Brahman can only be known through meditation, contemplation and yoga (direct merging with god), scriptures provide guidance and knowledge acquired by our ancestors from different lokas, this knowledge should lead us to the ultimate search for truth which is brahman.

 

Divine wisdom will be gained through intuition after merging with god, this is the ultimate knowledge, As Explained by Swami Rama (Himalayan Institute) what we hear or read or learm from others is not direct knowledge until we experince it directly through intuition by contemplating and meditating.

 

This happens when the Kundalini or lifeforce reaches Ajna chakra and opens the third eye of intuition, uptil then all knowledge obtained is only for guidance.

 

Om Namah Shivaya,

Divakar. --- On Sun, 5/17/09, bhatnagar_shailendra <bhatnagar_shailendra wrote:

bhatnagar_shailendra <bhatnagar_shailendra Re: Visnu and Shiva Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 1:31 PM

 

 

Namaste Rajya laxmi ji,Brahman can only be known from scriptures. All of what you said below could be true but you need to furnish Vedic proof. Here is some proof below that all the Gods and Goddesses described in the Vedas and Puranas are essentially one. Ganapati Atharva Seersha upanishat : tvameva sarvam khalvidam brahmasi tvameva pratyaksham tat tvam asi tvameva kevalam karta se (Oh Bhagavan Ganapati you are brahma, you are verily that (brahman, you alone are the doer etc)Sri Rudram : namas taraaya (I bow to Bhagavan Rudra who is Pranav or Omkaar)Purusha sooktam : purusha evadam sarvam (all this is the supreme purusha/Lord Vishnu)Durga Saptashati : chitti roopean ya kristnam etad vyapya sthitha jagat ... (Mata pervades the universe in the form of consciousness, so Mata is Brahman)So nobody can claim that one God is superior or beyond others. They all represent THE ONE.

regards,Shailendraom_namah_shivaya_ group@ s.com, rajya laxmi <rajyalaxmi11@ ...> wrote:>> > > > JAI MAA,> > > > > > SHIV IS SUPREME BEING, SHIV IS IT , SHIV TATVA> Ñ‚Ð" ETERNAL SAMADHI.> > > Do not confuse yourself with SHIV and Brahma> Vishnu and Mahesh, the trinity who manifested themselves from SHIV. Out of SHIV> TANDAV came trimurti. Tandava> represents five activities called shrishti or creation, sthiti or> preservation, samhara or destruction, tirobhava or illusion and anugraha> or salvation. When churned carefully, the first three activities are the three> divine acts of

Trimurti God Shiva called of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar, the> creator, sustainer and transformer. This is to destroy the illusion of MAYA.> > > What I would> suggest look at a picture of NATRAJ or ARDHANARISWAR where you will find entire> universe is emanating for the COSMIC DANCE. All Sanskrit letters emanated from this> ANANADTANDAV. Read the inner truth of> NATRAJ and your doubts will disappear.> > > Actually the "knowledge> of the Gita" is the subtle part of the "dance of Shiva". > > > Nataraja is the> conquest of light over darkness by the imbibing and inculcating the knowledge> of the Gita. Therefore, firstly, the purification of all souls with the dance> of "knowledge of the Gita" is the subtle part of the "dance of> Shiva". Secondly the cooperation of the elements to cleanse themselves> through floods,

hurricanes, earthquakes and fire are the physical part of the> "dance of Shiva", called Nataraja or the cosmic dance. Nataraja,> therefore is the dance of knowledge for the transformation to a pure world and> the re-establishment of Dharma.> > > The 14th day of the dark half of> every month (the time of the new moon) is called Shivrati, or "the night> of Shiva." Once a year, during the month of Magha (usually February or> March on the western calendar), this night is called Maha Shivaratri, which> means "the great night of Shiva."> > > According to our Purana, it was> on this day that Shiva first manifested as the linga or a Jyotipoonja in an> effort to break up an argument between Brahma and Vishnu over who as the superior> god. In the form of a huge column of fire, Shiva demonstrated superiority over> both of them.> >

> Meditation is the> art of perfect unlimited concentration whereas Samadhi is science of deep and> intense yoga with God. To reach this stage one must be detached from the> influence and attraction of this world. One must have sovereignty over the five> senses, the five elements and the five vices. The deerskin is only symbolic of> the conquest, sovereignty and stability of the mind. The "kalagni"> ordered by Shivji is but the "intense fire of yoga" that is required> to burn the negative or tamoguni sanskars, impure tendencies or bad habits of> the soul. To eliminate every living thing by fire around the Holy Cave> is not to physically destroy the biological environment but rather the power of> detachment from this mundane world and the freedom from the bondage of desires.> This is the principle called "vairag" when there is no motive for the> fruit of actions as

well as attachment to the action, be it good or bad. This> is summed up in Gita c5 where Arjuna asks God to explain which one is superior,> the "yoga of knowledge" or the "yoga of action". God> replies in c18v6, "Therefore, Arjuna, My considered and best opinion is> that these acts of sacrifice, gift, penance, and all other duties must be> performed relinquishing attachment and fruit', which is the qualities and> attributes of a "karma yogi".> > > There are many paths to spirituality and> truths; devotee may just believe that your own beliefs are true (and thus> better), and want to spread the "truth." For whatever reason> though, if you want to convince that person of your belief, you probably have a> tough job ahead of you.> > > What I would suggest walk> away from these people like Goswami Tulasidas told mera bai.> >

> > Mirabai , an ardent devotee of Lord Krishna was> under tremendous pressure from the in-laws family; they were against her going> out of the palace or calling satsang inside the palace; even her saintly> life-style and engrossment in her devotion of Krishna> was unbearable to many of them. > > > Helpless Meera wrote to her contemporary> saintly poet Goswami Tulasidas to advise her about what she should do; what> should be her duty in those circumstances? > > > Tulsidas explained to her that; such was the> law of the world; circumstances donÑ‚ÐЩt change according to oneÑ‚ÐЩs ideals or> resolutions. One has to change oneÑ‚ÐЩs attitude, mental conditioning for the> desired results. > > > In fact, he sent her a couplet of poetry that> said Ñ‚Ð"Ñ‚Ð"> > > Jake Priya Na Rama Vaidehi,

Tajiye Tahi Koti> Bairi Sama Yadyapi Param Sanehi |> > > (Meaning: You should leave those who do not> love Lord Ram and Sita (Father-Mother God) even if they happen to be your> nearest ones).> > > рдЬрд╛рдХреЗ рдкреÐрд░рдâ”рдп рди рд░рд╛рдо-рдмреИрджреЗрд╣реРред> > рддрдЬрдâ”рдпреЗ рддрд╛рд╣рд┠рдХреЛрдЯрд┠рдмреИрд░реРрд╕рдо, рдЬрджреÐрдпрдкрд┠рдкрд░рдо рд╕рдиреЗрд╣реРрее рез рее > > > рд╕реЛ рдЫрд╛рдБрдбрдâ•Ñ€Ð´â”рдпреЗ> > рддрдЬреÐрдпреЛ рдкрдâ”рддрд╛ рдкреÐрд░рд╣рд▓рд╛рдж, рдмрдâ”рднреÐрд╖рди рдмрдВрдзреБ, рднрд░рдд

рдорд╣рддрд╛рд░реРред> > рдмрд▓рд┠рдЧреБрд░реБ рддрдЬреÐрдпреЛ рдХрдВрдд рдмреÐрд░рдЬ-рдмрдирдâ”рддрдиреÐрд╣рдâ”, рднрдпреЗ рдореБрдж-рдордВрдЧрд▓рдХрд╛рд░реРрее реи рее > > > рдирд╛рддреЗ рдиреЗрд╣ рд░рд╛рдордХреЗ рдордирдâ”рдпрдд рд╕реБрд╣реГрдж рд╕реБрд╕реЗрдмреÐрдп рдЬрд╣рд╛рдБ рд▓реЛрдВ ред> > рдЕрдВрдЬрди рдХрд╣рд╛ рдЖрдБрдЦрд┠рдЬреЗрд╣рд┠рдлреВрдЯреИ, рдмрд╣реБрддрдХ рдХрд╣реМрдВ рдХрд╣рд╛рдБ рд▓реМрдВ рее рей рее > > > рддреБрд▓рд╕рд┠рд╕реЛ

рд╕рдм рднрд╛рдБрддрд┠рдкрд░рдо рд╣рдâ”рдд рдкреВрдЬреÐрдп рдкреÐрд░рд╛рдирддреЗ рдкреÐрдпрд╛рд░реЛ ред> > рдЬрд╛рд╕реЛрдВ рд╣реЛрдп рд╕рдиреЗрд╣ рд░рд╛рдо-рдкрдж, рдПрддреЛ рдорддреЛ рд╣рдорд╛рд░реЛ рее рек рее> > > In the end Goswamiji said> AISO MATO HAMARO.> > > Gururbrahmaa gururvishnuh gururdevo Maheswarah |> > Guruh-saakshaat parabrahma tasmai shrigurave namah || > > > > Om,> > > > Rajyalaxmi> > > > om_namah_shivaya_ group@ s.com> zziegamp Sun, 17 May 2009 20:01:24 +0930> [om_namah_shivaya_ group] Visnu and Shiva> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, everyone. > > > > I need some help. Today, at the markets, I stopped by at a stall owned> and run by a local member of the ISKCON. She takes in boarders of the> movement whenever they are in town and today there was a young lady at> the stall as well. This young lady recognised the beads about my throat> and asked me if I were Buddhist. When I said no, she pointed to the> beads and said that she had

seen them on worn by worshippers of> something-or- other. I told her, yes, I worship Shiva and rudraksha are> are known as the tears of Shiva. All was going well until she said 'but> Vishnu is God, Shiva is only a demi-god, because Shiva worships Vishnu.'> > > > Now, I have encountered this quite a lot and I usually use the story of> Vishnu plucking out his eye when there were not enough lotuses to> complete his daily worship of Shiva as an example that Vishnu also> worships Shiva. I don't think that story is in the Bhagavad Gita, which> the ISKCON movement uses as its bible and the idea that Vishnu worships> Shiva seemed to disgust her and when I said that Shiva and Vishnu are> simply two different forms of the same source she got confrontational.> 'What about Brahma?' she asked, "what's he?" And this is where I hit my> problem and why I need some

help. Shiva said that Brahma would not be> worshipped because his pride led to him lying but in the end I walked> away because I could not articulate what I felt. > > > > Worship of one or the other is not important, what is important> is that you do worship. Shiva has said that worship of Vishnu> is worship of him and I suspect that Vishnu has said the same thing. If> they're both saying the same thing, why do people get so upset> when you mention that you worship Shiva instead of Vishnu? And how can> you explain to them, so that they can understand, that worship of Shiva> is worship of Vishnu and vice-verse?> > > > Thank you, everyone> > Casey> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail┬о.> http://windowslive. com/Tutorial/ Hotmail/QuickAdd ?ocid=TXT_ TAGLM_WL_ HM_Tutorial_ QuickAdd1_ 052009>

[Guest guest]

Please disregard the claims of ignorant people who claim their God or Deity is higher or superior.

There in ONLY GOD. In the Bhagvad Gita Lord Krishna has declared that devotees may worship any deity because He is present in All. Let us not waste our time and energy in debating issues that are not important. Let us meditate on Him and Realize Him.

Regards

Mohan

 

From: zziegampDate: Sun, 17 May 2009 20:01:24 +0930 Visnu and Shiva

 

 

 

Hello, everyone. I need some help. Today, at the markets, I stopped by at a stall owned and run by a local member of the ISKCON. She takes in boarders of the movement whenever they are in town and today there was a young lady at the stall as well. This young lady recognised the beads about my throat and asked me if I were Buddhist. When I said no, she pointed to the beads and said that she had seen them on worn by worshippers of something-or-other. I told her, yes, I worship Shiva and rudraksha are are known as the tears of Shiva. All was going well until she said 'but Vishnu is God, Shiva is only a demi-god, because Shiva worships Vishnu.'Now, I have encountered this quite a lot and I usually use the story of Vishnu plucking out his eye when there were not enough lotuses to complete his daily worship of Shiva as an example that Vishnu also worships Shiva. I don't think that story is in the Bhagavad Gita, which the ISKCON movement uses as its bible and the idea that Vishnu worships Shiva seemed to disgust her and when I said that Shiva and Vishnu are simply two different forms of the same source she got confrontational. 'What about Brahma?' she asked, "what's he?" And this is where I hit my problem and why I need some help. Shiva said that Brahma would not be worshipped because his pride led to him lying but in the end I walked away because I could not articulate what I felt. Worship of one or the other is not important, what is important is that you do worship. Shiva has said that worship of Vishnu is worship of him and I suspect that Vishnu has said the same thing. If they're both saying the same thing, why do people get so upset when you mention that you worship Shiva instead of Vishnu? And how can you explain to them, so that they can understand, that worship of Shiva is worship of Vishnu and vice-verse?Thank you, everyoneCasey

 

Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. Check it out.

[Guest guest]

There is only one God for the universe. Let it be Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma,Budha,

Jesus or Allah all are same. One as many or many paths leads to one. But be true

in your path.

 

I Asked God...

 

Author Unknown

 

I asked God to take away my pain.

God said, No.

'It is not for me to take away, but for you to give it up.'

 

I asked God to make my handicapped child whole.

God said, No.

'Her spirit was whole, her body was only temporary.'

 

I asked God to grant me patience.

God said, No.

'Patience is a byproduct of tribulations; it isn't granted, it is earned.'

 

I asked God to give me happiness.

God said, No.

'I give you blessings. Happiness is up to you.'

 

I asked God to spare me pain.

God said, No.

'Suffering draws you apart from worldly cares and brings you closer to me.'

 

I asked God to make my spirit grow.

God said, No.

'You must grow on your own, but I will prune you to make you fruitful.'

 

I asked God for all things that I might enjoy life.

God said, No.

'I will give you life so that you may enjoy all things.'

 

I asked God to help me love others, as much as he loves me.

God said...

'Ahhhh, finally you have the idea.'

 

 

 

So love others

 

 

 

, mohan dadlani <mohan_dadlani

wrote:

>

>

> Please disregard the claims of ignorant people who claim their God or Deity is

higher or superior.

>

> There in ONLY GOD. In the Bhagvad Gita Lord Krishna has declared that

devotees may worship any deity because He is present in All. Let us not waste

our time and energy in debating issues that are not important. Let us meditate

on Him and Realize Him.

>

> Regards

>

> Mohan

>

>

>

>

> zziegamp

> Sun, 17 May 2009 20:01:24 +0930

> Visnu and Shiva

>

Hello, everyone.

>

> I need some help. Today, at the markets, I stopped by at a stall owned and run

by a local member of the ISKCON. She takes in boarders of the movement whenever

they are in town and today there was a young lady at the stall as well. This

young lady recognised the beads about my throat and asked me if I were Buddhist.

When I said no, she pointed to the beads and said that she had seen them on worn

by worshippers of something-or-other. I told her, yes, I worship Shiva and

rudraksha are are known as the tears of Shiva. All was going well until she said

'but Vishnu is God, Shiva is only a demi-god, because Shiva worships Vishnu.'

>

> Now, I have encountered this quite a lot and I usually use the story of Vishnu

plucking out his eye when there were not enough lotuses to complete his daily

worship of Shiva as an example that Vishnu also worships Shiva. I don't think

that story is in the Bhagavad Gita, which the ISKCON movement uses as its bible

and the idea that Vishnu worships Shiva seemed to disgust her and when I said

that Shiva and Vishnu are simply two different forms of the same source she got

confrontational. 'What about Brahma?' she asked, " what's he? " And this is where

I hit my problem and why I need some help. Shiva said that Brahma would not be

worshipped because his pride led to him lying but in the end I walked away

because I could not articulate what I felt.

>

> Worship of one or the other is not important, what is important is that you do

worship. Shiva has said that worship of Vishnu is worship of him and I suspect

that Vishnu has said the same thing. If they're both saying the same thing, why

do people get so upset when you mention that you worship Shiva instead of

Vishnu? And how can you explain to them, so that they can understand, that

worship of Shiva is worship of Vishnu and vice-verse?

>

> Thank you, everyone

> Casey

>

>

_______________

> Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don't worry about storage limits.

>

http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_St\

orage1_052009

>

[Guest guest]

Absloutely amazing, whatever we do in spiritual path will not be useful or fruitful without TRUTH and LOVE

 

TRUTH is everything and TRUTH is god.

 

God Bless you Lingaraj ji for sharing this wonderful wisdom.

 

Om Namah Shivaya,

Divakar. --- On Tue, 5/19/09, mlingaraj72 <mlingaraj72 wrote:

mlingaraj72 <mlingaraj72 Re: Visnu and Shiva Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 4:08 AM

 

 

There is only one God for the universe. Let it be Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma,Budha, Jesus or Allah all are same. One as many or many paths leads to one. But be true in your path.I Asked God... Author Unknown I asked God to take away my pain.God said, No.'It is not for me to take away, but for you to give it up.'I asked God to make my handicapped child whole.God said, No.'Her spirit was whole, her body was only temporary.'I asked God to grant me patience.God said, No.'Patience is a byproduct of tribulations; it isn't granted, it is earned.'I asked God to give me happiness.God said, No.'I give you blessings. Happiness is up to you.'I asked God to spare me pain.God said, No.'Suffering draws you apart from worldly cares and brings you closer to me.'I asked God to make my spirit grow.God said, No.'You must grow on your own, but I will prune you to

make you fruitful.'I asked God for all things that I might enjoy life.God said, No.'I will give you life so that you may enjoy all things.'I asked God to help me love others, as much as he loves me.God said...'Ahhhh, finally you have the idea.'So love others om_namah_shivaya_ group@ s.com, mohan dadlani <mohan_dadlani@ ...> wrote:>> > Please disregard the claims of ignorant people who claim their God or Deity is higher or superior.> > There in ONLY GOD. In the Bhagvad Gita Lord Krishna has declared that devotees may worship any deity because He is present in All. Let us not waste our time and energy in debating issues that are not important. Let us meditate on Him and

Realize Him.> > Regards> > Mohan> > > > om_namah_shivaya_ group@ s.com> zziegamp Sun, 17 May 2009 20:01:24 +0930> [om_namah_shivaya_ group] Visnu and Shiva> > > > > > > > Hello, everyone. > > I need some help. Today, at the markets, I stopped by at a stall owned and run by a local member of the ISKCON. She takes in boarders of the movement whenever they are in town and today there was a young lady at the stall as well. This young lady recognised the beads about my throat and asked me if I were Buddhist. When I said no, she pointed to the beads and said that she had seen them on worn by

worshippers of something-or- other. I told her, yes, I worship Shiva and rudraksha are are known as the tears of Shiva. All was going well until she said 'but Vishnu is God, Shiva is only a demi-god, because Shiva worships Vishnu.'> > Now, I have encountered this quite a lot and I usually use the story of Vishnu plucking out his eye when there were not enough lotuses to complete his daily worship of Shiva as an example that Vishnu also worships Shiva. I don't think that story is in the Bhagavad Gita, which the ISKCON movement uses as its bible and the idea that Vishnu worships Shiva seemed to disgust her and when I said that Shiva and Vishnu are simply two different forms of the same source she got confrontational. 'What about Brahma?' she asked, "what's he?" And this is where I hit my problem and why I need some help. Shiva said that Brahma would not be worshipped because his pride led to him lying but in the end I walked away because I

could not articulate what I felt. > > Worship of one or the other is not important, what is important is that you do worship. Shiva has said that worship of Vishnu is worship of him and I suspect that Vishnu has said the same thing. If they're both saying the same thing, why do people get so upset when you mention that you worship Shiva instead of Vishnu? And how can you explain to them, so that they can understand, that worship of Shiva is worship of Vishnu and vice-verse?> > Thank you, everyone> Casey> > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don't worry about storage limits.> http://windowslive. com/Tutorial/ Hotmail/Storage? ocid=TXT_

TAGLM_WL_ HM_Tutorial_ Storage1_ 052009>

[Guest guest]

None of the Gods ridicule the other. Infact the glory of Vishnu is narrated by SIVA to Parvathi.

Parvathi asks Siva what is the easiest way to get the fruit of reciting Vishnu Sahasranamam and in reply Siva says SRI RAMA RAMETHI RAME RAME MANORAME SAHASRANAMA THATHULYAM SRIRAMANAMA VARANANAE.

Similarly Sivas Glory is spoken by Lord Vishnu.

It is only we human beings have fixed views in mind. Infact since LOGO BINNA RUCHIHI we have hundreds and thousands of forms of worship of idols each to suit ones own identity.

Just like all rivers flow to the sea all types of worship finally reaches the yultimate GOD SUPREME

LOVE TRC

On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Casey <zziegamp wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Hello, everyone. I need some help. Today, at the markets, I stopped by at a stall owned and run by a local member of the ISKCON. She takes in boarders of the movement whenever they are in town and today there was a young lady at the stall as well. This young lady recognised the beads about my throat and asked me if I were Buddhist. When I said no, she pointed to the beads and said that she had seen them on worn by worshippers of something-or-other. I told her, yes, I worship Shiva and rudraksha are are known as the tears of Shiva. All was going well until she said 'but Vishnu is God, Shiva is only a demi-god, because Shiva worships Vishnu.'

Now, I have encountered this quite a lot and I usually use the story of Vishnu plucking out his eye when there were not enough lotuses to complete his daily worship of Shiva as an example that Vishnu also worships Shiva. I don't think that story is in the Bhagavad Gita, which the ISKCON movement uses as its bible and the idea that Vishnu worships Shiva seemed to disgust her and when I said that Shiva and Vishnu are simply two different forms of the same source she got confrontational. 'What about Brahma?' she asked, " what's he? " And this is where I hit my problem and why I need some help. Shiva said that Brahma would not be worshipped because his pride led to him lying but in the end I walked away because I could not articulate what I felt.

Worship of one or the other is not important, what is important is that you do worship. Shiva has said that worship of Vishnu is worship of him and I suspect that Vishnu has said the same thing. If they're both saying the same thing, why do people get so upset when you mention that you worship Shiva instead of Vishnu? And how can you explain to them, so that they can understand, that worship of Shiva is worship of Vishnu and vice-verse?

Thank you, everyoneCasey

[Guest guest]

It is not the supremacy of one God to another. It is the ego that says that the God whom i worship must be supreme and every other God is demi God.

 

When u see Shiva what do u feel. Love for him. Or something else.

 

What i am asking is you have started to worship him only because he is the God of God. If so then the attitude is wrong.

 

I have a attitude that i love u so much and want to dissolve in the supreme to whom people give different name due to their ignorance.

 

Today if people see me office they will se me in different role and in home in different in role.

 

Regards

Dinesh.--- On Sun, 5/17/09, Casey <zziegamp wrote:

Casey <zziegamp Visnu and Shiva Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 4:01 PM

 

 

Hello, everyone. I need some help. Today, at the markets, I stopped by at a stall owned and run by a local member of the ISKCON. She takes in boarders of the movement whenever they are in town and today there was a young lady at the stall as well. This young lady recognised the beads about my throat and asked me if I were Buddhist. When I said no, she pointed to the beads and said that she had seen them on worn by worshippers of something-or- other. I told her, yes, I worship Shiva and rudraksha are are known as the tears of Shiva. All was going well until she said 'but Vishnu is God, Shiva is only a demi-god, because Shiva worships Vishnu.'Now, I have encountered this quite a lot and I usually use the story of Vishnu plucking out his eye when there were not enough lotuses to complete his daily worship of Shiva as an example that Vishnu also worships Shiva. I don't think that story is in the Bhagavad Gita, which the ISKCON movement

uses as its bible and the idea that Vishnu worships Shiva seemed to disgust her and when I said that Shiva and Vishnu are simply two different forms of the same source she got confrontational. 'What about Brahma?' she asked, "what's he?" And this is where I hit my problem and why I need some help. Shiva said that Brahma would not be worshipped because his pride led to him lying but in the end I walked away because I could not articulate what I felt. Worship of one or the other is not important, what is important is that you do worship. Shiva has said that worship of Vishnu is worship of him and I suspect that Vishnu has said the same thing. If they're both saying the same thing, why do people get so upset when you mention that you worship Shiva instead of Vishnu? And how can you explain to them, so that they can understand, that worship of Shiva is worship of Vishnu and vice-verse?Thank you,

everyoneCasey

[Guest guest]

Please Dr. jaya....take your iskcon philosophies somewhere else. There are books that talk about Visnu being the left half of Siva or being born of iccha shakti of Lord Siva, but of course you will not be ready to hear about that side of the story.

 

The fact is the none is superior it inferior. It is your ego which likes to believe that the one you are following is better than the others...exactly the same principle as that followed by Islam and Christians. Take your arguments to their forum.

 

Moderator: What is happening here?

 

Bhupendra.

 

 

 

dr. jaya <pyari_h Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:52:55 AM Re: Visnu and Shiva

 

Read more at:http://forums. delphiforums. com/jayaradhey/ messages? msg=44.30om_namah_shivaya_ group@ s.com, Tiruvarur Chandrasekaran <tiruvarur@. ..> wrote:>> None of the Gods ridicule the other. Infact the glory of Vishnu is narrated> by SIVA to Parvathi.> Parvathi asks Siva what is the easiest way to get the fruit of reciting> Vishnu Sahasranamam and in reply Siva says SRI RAMA RAMETHI RAME RAME> MANORAME SAHASRANAMA THATHULYAM SRIRAMANAMA VARANANAE.> Similarly Sivas Glory is spoken by Lord Vishnu.> It is only we human beings have fixed views in mind. Infact since LOGO BINNA> RUCHIHI we have hundreds and

thousands of forms of worship of idols each to> suit ones own identity.> Just like all rivers flow to the sea all types of worship finally reaches> the yultimate GOD SUPREME> LOVE TRC

 

Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!

[Guest guest]

believe in one eternal god. let it be vishnu hanuman or shiva

all are one and equal and worshipped according to each one likings

none is superior or inferior all are one and same

there is a saying in tamil

HARIYUM SIVANUM ONNU ATHAI ARIYATHAVAR VAILEYE MANNU

 

let us concentrate on spirituality- that why we r here - not to get diverted on petty things

om namashivay

om namo narayana

 

 

-

Bhupendra Jamnadas

Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:42 PM

Re: Re: Visnu and Shiva

 

 

 

 

Please Dr. jaya....take your iskcon philosophies somewhere else. There are books that talk about Visnu being the left half of Siva or being born of iccha shakti of Lord Siva, but of course you will not be ready to hear about that side of the story.

 

The fact is the none is superior it inferior. It is your ego which likes to believe that the one you are following is better than the others...exactly the same principle as that followed by Islam and Christians. Take your arguments to their forum.

 

Moderator: What is happening here?

 

Bhupendra.

 

 

 

dr. jaya <pyari_h > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:52:55 AM Re: Visnu and Shiva

 

Read more at:http://forums. delphiforums. com/jayaradhey/ messages? msg=44.30om_namah_shivaya_ group@ s.com, Tiruvarur Chandrasekaran <tiruvarur@. ..> wrote:>> None of the Gods ridicule the other. Infact the glory of Vishnu is narrated> by SIVA to Parvathi.> Parvathi asks Siva what is the easiest way to get the fruit of reciting> Vishnu Sahasranamam and in reply Siva says SRI RAMA RAMETHI RAME RAME> MANORAME SAHASRANAMA THATHULYAM SRIRAMANAMA VARANANAE.> Similarly Sivas Glory is spoken by Lord Vishnu.> It is only we human beings have fixed views in mind. Infact since LOGO BINNA> RUCHIHI we have hundreds and thousands of forms of worship of idols each to> suit ones own identity.> Just like all rivers flow to the sea all types of worship finally reaches> the yultimate GOD SUPREME> LOVE TRC

 

Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!

[Guest guest]

Please, don't argue.

 

I think we can all agree that God takes on different forms for its

worshippers, whether that form be Krishna, Allah, Yahweh, Shiva or

Shakti. My question was merely how to attempt to explain reconciliation

between the two aspects of God, not to insight argument.

 

Casey

 

 

Please Dr. jaya....take your iskcon philosophies somewhere else.

There are books that talk about Visnu being the left half of Siva or

being born of iccha shakti of Lord Siva, but of course you will not be

ready to hear about that side of the story.

 

The fact is the none is superior it inferior. It is your ego

which likes to believe that the one you are following is better than

the others...exactly the same principle as that followed by Islam and

Christians. Take your arguments to their forum.

 

Moderator: What is happening here?

 

Bhupendra.

 

 

 

dr.

jaya <pyari_h

To:

 

Wednesday, May

27, 2009 11:52:55 AM

Subject:

Re: Visnu and Shiva

 

 

Read more at:

 

http://forums. delphiforums.

com/jayaradhey/ messages? msg=44.30

 

om_namah_shivaya_

group@ s.com, Tiruvarur Chandrasekaran <tiruvarur@.

...> wrote:

>

> None of the Gods ridicule the other. Infact the glory of Vishnu is

narrated

> by SIVA to Parvathi.

> Parvathi asks Siva what is the easiest way to get the fruit of

reciting

> Vishnu Sahasranamam and in reply Siva says SRI RAMA RAMETHI RAME

RAME

> MANORAME SAHASRANAMA THATHULYAM SRIRAMANAMA VARANANAE.

> Similarly Sivas Glory is spoken by Lord Vishnu.

> It is only we human beings have fixed views in mind. Infact since

LOGO BINNA

> RUCHIHI we have hundreds and thousands of forms of worship of

idols each to

> suit ones own identity.

> Just like all rivers flow to the sea all types of worship finally

reaches

> the yultimate GOD SUPREME

> LOVE TRC

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!