Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 please send me stories that discribe the goodness of God not the brutality of is devotees From: selvaukDate: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:45:46 +0100 Great Devotees of Lord Siva 52 & 53 Om Namah Sivaya Kazharsinga Nayanar AndSeruthunai Nayanar Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to God’s grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for Siva’s worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queen’s action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. Sivaya Namah Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. Soyez parmi les premiers à essayer Windows Live Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Om Namah Sivaya My humble request is that please never speak ill of the saints or devotees of God. They have attained union with God: and, so, if you vilify them, you are vilifying God Himself. It is the greatest sin. You cannot judge them: they live on a different plane of consciousness from yours. Our scriptures contain numerous illustrations of the strange behaviour of saints, sages and Yogis. Sometimes they behave as little children: sometimes as mad-men; sometimes as fools. Mysterious is the nature of saints. Always worship and adore them: you will be benefited. Do not criticise them or speak ill of them or find fault with their conduct. Our scriptures say that he who blames the conduct of the sages, gets their bad Karma, and suffers doubly in consequence. Beware! This story is an extraordinary illustration of the nature of supreme devotion or Para Bhakti. It is its own law. The supreme devotee knows nothing but God and is actually oblivious of the world and its manners. He lives in God, for God and he is of God. At such a stage, God Himself takes charge of him! The completeness of the surrender is severely tested before this. Lord Siva was tested both of these devotees for their degree of surrender. Firstly Seruthunai Nayanar, he thought the queen insulted Lord Siva by smelling a flower which was originally kept for His worship and he took that action ( WITHOUT any selfish motive) although he knew that he would have almost faced the Death Penalty as she was a queen, this shows he was ready to give up his life for the Lord. Secondly although Kazharsinga Nayanar (the King) was extremely annoyed by the action of Seruthunai Nayanar, when he found out the reason ( i.e Siva Aparadham) he took further action although she was his beloved wife without thinking twice, his supreme love for the Lord had so completely overshadowed his love for his own wife and this shows most importantly he would do anything for the Lord. In this world you will find most men do absolutely anything for his wife not for the Lord. Finally the queen was simply an instrument in the hand of Lord Siva and I am sure by the grace of Lord Siva she wouldn’t have faced much pain and most likely her past karmas would have been wiped out and attained His feet too. As long as we are aware of our own individuality, stick to the code of right conduct: do not foolishly imitate the sages who dwell in a plane of consciousness, to which you are a complete stranger or find fault in them or judge them. The Highest aspect of Siva according to God-Realised souls is that He is beyond good and bad. If you can dive into God-Consciousness you will know for certain that good and bad are just both sides of the same coin, in other words Maya. Lord Siva is impartial towards every living beings that’s why He is the Supreme Lord, He has had and He will ever have a wide variety of devotees whether they are gods, demons, humans, animals, insects, etc, etc. Lord Siva always test His devotees for their unconditional devotion according to their nature before offer them a place at His Feet. Our little intellect should never be used to judge (goodness or badness) of His action as intellect itself is Maya. Lord Siva can never be knowable by our mind/intellect, one has to go beyond the consciousness of the body and mind. I emphasize you again that goodness and badness are condition of the mind not the Lord, He highest aspect is far beyond dual nature as per declaration of God realised noble souls. Sivaya Namah Denis Bujold <lavimem wrote: please send me stories that discribe the goodness of God not the brutality of is devotees From: selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.ukDate: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:45:46 +0100 Great Devotees of Lord Siva 52 & 53 Om Namah Sivaya Kazharsinga Nayanar AndSeruthunai Nayanar Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to God’s grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for Siva’s worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queen’s action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. Sivaya Namah Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. Soyez parmi les premiers à essayer Windows Live Mail. Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Pretty barbaric, pitiful and heinous behaviour if you ask me! Harming and crippling this poor woman for a small accidental mistake. I guess our definition of saints differ! ---- Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk wrote: > Om Namah Sivaya > > Kazharsinga Nayanar And > Seruthunai Nayanar > Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to GodÂ’s grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. > > Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for SivaÂ’s worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. > > The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queenÂ’s action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. > > > Sivaya Namah > > > > > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 I have to agree with this. Anyway, what is wrong with smelling a flower for goodness sake? I would suggest that the summary punishment brutally meted out by Nayanar and the king is far more of an insult to the Lord than the woman's actions. Neither are worthy of the Lord.Denis Bujold <lavimem wrote: please send me stories that discribe the goodness of God not the brutality of is devotees From: selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.ukDate: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:45:46 +0100 Great Devotees of Lord Siva 52 & 53 Om Namah Sivaya Kazharsinga Nayanar AndSeruthunai Nayanar Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to God’s grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for Siva’s worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queen’s action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. Sivaya Namah Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. Soyez parmi les premiers à essayer Windows Live Mail. Shiv Sewak CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: IMPORTANTThe information contained in this e-mail, including any attachment(s) is strictly confidential, legally privileged and intended for the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient (or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient) or have received it in error, you are not permitted to retain, use, disclose, disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail, including any attachment(s) or any part of it. Please immediately delete or destroy it and notify me by sending a return e-mail. Thank you Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Whilst I agree that the holy should be revered, your comments that ".......the supreme devotee knows nothing but God and is actually oblivious of the world and its manners......" does not fit in with the action of becoming annoyed and cutting someone's nose off. I would however caution against the idea of simply accepting that someone who may be considered a saint and blindly accepting all that they do. If God takes charge of them then it is God who cut of this woman's nose and punished her further through the king simply for smelling a flower that had fallen to the ground. I do not believe this to be the action of God but would welcome others' views.Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk wrote: Om Namah Sivaya My humble request is that please never speak ill of the saints or devotees of God. They have attained union with God: and, so, if you vilify them, you are vilifying God Himself. It is the greatest sin. You cannot judge them: they live on a different plane of consciousness from yours. Our scriptures contain numerous illustrations of the strange behaviour of saints, sages and Yogis. Sometimes they behave as little children: sometimes as mad-men; sometimes as fools. Mysterious is the nature of saints. Always worship and adore them: you will be benefited. Do not criticise them or speak ill of them or find fault with their conduct. Our scriptures say that he who blames the conduct of the sages, gets their bad Karma, and suffers doubly in consequence. Beware! This story is an extraordinary illustration of the nature of supreme devotion or Para Bhakti. It is its own law. The supreme devotee knows nothing but God and is actually oblivious of the world and its manners. He lives in God, for God and he is of God. At such a stage, God Himself takes charge of him! The completeness of the surrender is severely tested before this. Lord Siva was tested both of these devotees for their degree of surrender. Firstly Seruthunai Nayanar, he thought the queen insulted Lord Siva by smelling a flower which was originally kept for His worship and he took that action ( WITHOUT any selfish motive) although he knew that he would have almost faced the Death Penalty as she was a queen, this shows he was ready to give up his life for the Lord. Secondly although Kazharsinga Nayanar (the King) was extremely annoyed by the action of Seruthunai Nayanar, when he found out the reason ( i.e Siva Aparadham) he took further action although she was his beloved wife without thinking twice, his supreme love for the Lord had so completely overshadowed his love for his own wife and this shows most importantly he would do anything for the Lord. In this world you will find most men do absolutely anything for his wife not for the Lord. Finally the queen was simply an instrument in the hand of Lord Siva and I am sure by the grace of Lord Siva she wouldn’t have faced much pain and most likely her past karmas would have been wiped out and attained His feet too. As long as we are aware of our own individuality, stick to the code of right conduct: do not foolishly imitate the sages who dwell in a plane of consciousness, to which you are a complete stranger or find fault in them or judge them. The Highest aspect of Siva according to God-Realised souls is that He is beyond good and bad. If you can dive into God-Consciousness you will know for certain that good and bad are just both sides of the same coin, in other words Maya. Lord Siva is impartial towards every living beings that’s why He is the Supreme Lord, He has had and He will ever have a wide variety of devotees whether they are gods, demons, humans, animals, insects, etc, etc. Lord Siva always test His devotees for their unconditional devotion according to their nature before offer them a place at His Feet. Our little intellect should never be used to judge (goodness or badness) of His action as intellect itself is Maya. Lord Siva can never be knowable by our mind/intellect, one has to go beyond the consciousness of the body and mind. I emphasize you again that goodness and badness are condition of the mind not the Lord, He highest aspect is far beyond dual nature as per declaration of God realised noble souls. Sivaya Namah Denis Bujold <lavimem (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: please send me stories that discribe the goodness of God not the brutality of is devotees From: selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.ukDate: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:45:46 +0100 Great Devotees of Lord Siva 52 & 53 Om Namah Sivaya Kazharsinga Nayanar AndSeruthunai Nayanar Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to God’s grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for Siva’s worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queen’s action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. Sivaya Namah Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. Soyez parmi les premiers à essayer Windows Live Mail. Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. Shiv Sewak CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: IMPORTANTThe information contained in this e-mail, including any attachment(s) is strictly confidential, legally privileged and intended for the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient (or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient) or have received it in error, you are not permitted to retain, use, disclose, disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail, including any attachment(s) or any part of it. Please immediately delete or destroy it and notify me by sending a return e-mail. Thank you You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Mail Beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 I agree, but would once again ask, what was wrong with picking up and smelling the flower? I cannot accept the celestials rained flowers down on these two barbarians. mahamuni wrote: Pretty barbaric, pitiful and heinous behaviour if you ask me! Harming and crippling this poor woman for a small accidental mistake. I guess our definition of saints differ!---- Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: > Om Namah Sivaya> > Kazharsinga Nayanar And> Seruthunai Nayanar > Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to God’s grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. > > Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for Siva’s worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. > > The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queen’s action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. > > > Sivaya Namah> > > > > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. Shiv Sewak CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: IMPORTANTThe information contained in this e-mail, including any attachment(s) is strictly confidential, legally privileged and intended for the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient (or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient) or have received it in error, you are not permitted to retain, use, disclose, disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail, including any attachment(s) or any part of it. Please immediately delete or destroy it and notify me by sending a return e-mail. Thank you oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 My request is that you don't post stories where innocent devotees of God are hurt by others, especially women being brutalized by men and then praised for it. Om Namah Shivaya! Surya ---- Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk wrote: > Om Namah Sivaya > > > My humble request is that please never speak ill of the saints or devotees of God. They have attained union with God: and, so, if you vilify them, you are vilifying God Himself. It is the greatest sin. You cannot judge them: they live on a different plane of consciousness from yours. Our scriptures contain numerous illustrations of the strange behaviour of saints, sages and Yogis. Sometimes they behave as little children: sometimes as mad-men; sometimes as fools. Mysterious is the nature of saints. Always worship and adore them: you will be benefited. Do not criticise them or speak ill of them or find fault with their conduct. Our scriptures say that he who blames the conduct of the sages, gets their bad Karma, and suffers doubly in consequence. Beware! > > > This story is an extraordinary illustration of the nature of supreme devotion or Para Bhakti. It is its own law. The supreme devotee knows nothing but God and is actually oblivious of the world and its manners. He lives in God, for God and he is of God. At such a stage, God Himself takes charge of him! The completeness of the surrender is severely tested before this. Lord Siva was tested both of these devotees for their degree of surrender. Firstly Seruthunai Nayanar, he thought the queen insulted Lord Siva by smelling a flower which was originally kept for His worship and he took that action ( WITHOUT any selfish motive) although he knew that he would have almost faced the Death Penalty as she was a queen, this shows he was ready to give up his life for the Lord. Secondly although Kazharsinga Nayanar (the King) was extremely annoyed by the action of Seruthunai Nayanar, when he found out the reason ( i.e Siva Aparadham) he took further action although she was his beloved > wife without thinking twice, his supreme love for the Lord had so completely overshadowed his love for his own wife and this shows most importantly he would do anything for the Lord. In this world you will find most men do absolutely anything for his wife not for the Lord. Finally the queen was simply an instrument in the hand of Lord Siva and I am sure by the grace of Lord Siva she wouldn’t have faced much pain and most likely her past karmas would have been wiped out and attained His feet too. > > > As long as we are aware of our own individuality, stick to the code of right conduct: do not foolishly imitate the sages who dwell in a plane of consciousness, to which you are a complete stranger or find fault in them or judge them. > > > The Highest aspect of Siva according to God-Realised souls is that He is beyond good and bad. If you can dive into God-Consciousness you will know for certain that good and bad are just both sides of the same coin, in other words Maya. Lord Siva is impartial towards every living beings that’s why He is the Supreme Lord, He has had and He will ever have a wide variety of devotees whether they are gods, demons, humans, animals, insects, etc, etc. Lord Siva always test His devotees for their unconditional devotion according to their nature before offer them a place at His Feet. Our little intellect should never be used to judge (goodness or badness) of His action as intellect itself is Maya. Lord Siva can never be knowable by our mind/intellect, one has to go beyond the consciousness of the body and mind. I emphasize you again that goodness and badness are condition of the mind not the Lord, He highest aspect is far beyond dual nature as per declaration of God realised > noble souls. > > Sivaya Namah > > > Denis Bujold <lavimem wrote: > > please send me stories that discribe the goodness of God not the brutality of is devotees > > > > > selvauk > Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:45:46 +0100 > Great Devotees of Lord Siva 52 & 53 > > Om Namah Sivaya > > Kazharsinga Nayanar And > Seruthunai Nayanar > Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to God’s grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. > > Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for Siva’s worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. > > The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queen’s action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. > > > Sivaya Namah > > > > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. > > Soyez parmi les premiers à essayer Windows Live Mail. > > > > > > > Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. 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Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 NamasteThe rules for Puja is that what ever is to be offered to a deity should never be tasted, smelt or impurified by even thoughts. This is why there are mudras and mantras to purify the offerings before being given to the deity. The Samanya Argha (water for washing of the mouth of the deity has a compendium of mantras designed to remove negativity. (I have personally tested this )The barbaric behaviour you think that was given to the queen while in a mundane sense is quite cruel has more to it. We tend to forget Prarabdha karma ( karma of the past that fructifies in the present), maybe it was a punishment to be given for past wrongs and by committing the act of smelling the flower this was a trigger to cause the punishment to be implemented. Also note that divine justice is quite different from human justice which operates on emotion, divine justice operates on many levels that are far different in logic or human acceptability.Namah SivayaBest RegardsPandit Devindra MaharajShiv Sewak <shiv_sewak wrote: I agree, but would once again ask, what was wrong with picking up and smelling the flower? I cannot accept the celestials rained flowers down on these two barbarians. mahamuni (AT) cox (DOT) net wrote: Pretty barbaric, pitiful and heinous behaviour if you ask me! Harming and crippling this poor woman for a small accidental mistake. I guess our definition of saints differ!---- Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: > Om Namah Sivaya> > Kazharsinga Nayanar And> Seruthunai Nayanar > Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to God’s grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. > > Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for Siva’s worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. > > The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queen’s action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. > > > Sivaya Namah> > > > > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. Shiv Sewak CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: IMPORTANTThe information contained in this e-mail, including any attachment(s) is strictly confidential, legally privileged and intended for the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient (or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient) or have received it in error, you are not permitted to retain, use, disclose, disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail, including any attachment(s) or any part of it. Please immediately delete or destroy it and notify me by sending a return e-mail. Thank you oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.Visit the Auto Green Center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Namaste And who amongst us can say what is worthy of the Lord, we would like to think that we know based on emotion, but what is in fact acceptable to the Lord can indeed be very different from what we deem to be acceptable.The only way of finding out for sure is to be able to meditate on the Deity and to be able to receive direct instruction personally.Namah SivayaBest RegardsPandit Devindra MaharajShiv Sewak <shiv_sewak wrote: I have to agree with this. Anyway, what is wrong with smelling a flower for goodness sake? I would suggest that the summary punishment brutally meted out by Nayanar and the king is far more of an insult to the Lord than the woman's actions. Neither are worthy of the Lord.Denis Bujold <lavimem (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: please send me stories that discribe the goodness of God not the brutality of is devotees From: selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.ukDate: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:45:46 +0100 Great Devotees of Lord Siva 52 & 53 Om Namah Sivaya Kazharsinga Nayanar AndSeruthunai Nayanar Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to God’s grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for Siva’s worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queen’s action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. Sivaya Namah Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. Soyez parmi les premiers à essayer Windows Live Mail. Shiv Sewak CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: IMPORTANTThe information contained in this e-mail, including any attachment(s) is strictly confidential, legally privileged and intended for the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient (or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient) or have received it in error, you are not permitted to retain, use, disclose, disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail, including any attachment(s) or any part of it. Please immediately delete or destroy it and notify me by sending a return e-mail. Thank you Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search. Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.Visit the Auto Green Center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Namaste MahamuniThis barbaric behaviour I tell you ! Some things you should be aware of though. When one worships Rudra as I do, you develop a pretty terrific temper and power to go with it. If this fellow was a saint more than likely he had the power to kill this woman instantly ! While I do not condone unnecessary violence, I would say there had to be much more to this that only the smelling of a flower.Namah SivayaBest RegardsPandit Devindra Maharajmahamuni wrote: Pretty barbaric, pitiful and heinous behaviour if you ask me! Harming and crippling this poor woman for a small accidental mistake. I guess our definition of saints differ! ---- Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: > Om Namah Sivaya > > Kazharsinga Nayanar And > Seruthunai Nayanar > Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to God’s grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. > > Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for Siva’s worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. > > The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queen’s action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. > > > Sivaya Namah > > > > > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 , <mahamuni wrote: > > My request is that you don't post stories where innocent devotees of God are hurt by others, especially women being brutalized by men and then praised for it. While I agree that the Queeen's punishment was barbaric, she doesn't seem innocent either. It is well known amongst ordinary citizens that offerings to the Deity isn't enjoyed by the worshippers whatsoever until the priests hands them out as prasad, not even a whiff. How much more should a queen know this? But, I never heard of physical punishment before, muchless a hacking with a sword. Om Namah Shivaya! Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Hari Om! Hari Om Tat Sat!To all HARA Bhakthas, please accept my respectful pranams! All glories to the devotees of the Lord!Bhakthi yoga itself has many ways. When Vairagya gets mixed with Bhakthi, its roopam is not Sattvam it is ugram. Lord Shri Sarveshwaran is Ugra moorthy and has a mantra Om Ugraya Namah! So the Lord who is antharyamin knows the bhakthi of the jivas which was in Shri Selva's message. Do not get trapped with the maya of killing, brutality etc. for these acts do not exist...it is only Lord who exists, how can HE injure himself. There is nothing called man and woman, again another prakrthi element which can turn the marga of HIS -SELF- in you....It is all Shivoham! HE prays HimSELF in jivas....All bhakthi margams are good, Lord Shri Sarveshwaran loves these acts...do not mistake my-SELF- for writing like this...it does shows the devotees (HIS-SELF) which adored only HIM...and did not care the prakrithi....Bhatkhi to Lord has to be endured with Pain...Lord Shri krishna tells uddava, when prema bhatkhi starts HE does a big favor to the jiva, by taking away wealth, then everything maya connects with HIM. When the act of Lord is being on a jiva, it is like the cucumber being removed with a sickle or knife in the plant. Shri Rudran's leelas cannot be known for anyone except HIM. HE decides which SELF in the jiva's have the capability to attain HIM whether it is through Vairagaya Bhatkhi or Vibhakthi or GyanaBhakthi or PremaBhakthi or SevaBhakthi or AhangaraBhakthi...for all is Bhatkhi in forms describable only to HIM...Subham Dinam Astu!Sarvam Shri HariHreemHara Arpanam Astu!Sarvam Shri Krishna Arpanam Astu!"mahamuni" <mahamuni Cc: Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvaukFriday, 15 June, 2007 3:01:07 AMRe: RE: Great Devotees of Lord Siva 52 & 53 My request is that you don't post stories where innocent devotees of God are hurt by others, especially women being brutalized by men and then praised for it. Om Namah Shivaya! Surya ---- Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: > Om Namah Sivaya > > > My humble request is that please never speak ill of the saints or devotees of God. They have attained union with God: and, so, if you vilify them, you are vilifying God Himself. It is the greatest sin. You cannot judge them: they live on a different plane of consciousness from yours. Our scriptures contain numerous illustrations of the strange behaviour of saints, sages and Yogis. Sometimes they behave as little children: sometimes as mad-men; sometimes as fools. Mysterious is the nature of saints. Always worship and adore them: you will be benefited. Do not criticise them or speak ill of them or find fault with their conduct. Our scriptures say that he who blames the conduct of the sages, gets their bad Karma, and suffers doubly in consequence. Beware! > > > This story is an extraordinary illustration of the nature of supreme devotion or Para Bhakti. It is its own law. The supreme devotee knows nothing but God and is actually oblivious of the world and its manners. He lives in God, for God and he is of God. At such a stage, God Himself takes charge of him! The completeness of the surrender is severely tested before this. Lord Siva was tested both of these devotees for their degree of surrender. Firstly Seruthunai Nayanar, he thought the queen insulted Lord Siva by smelling a flower which was originally kept for His worship and he took that action ( WITHOUT any selfish motive) although he knew that he would have almost faced the Death Penalty as she was a queen, this shows he was ready to give up his life for the Lord. Secondly although Kazharsinga Nayanar (the King) was extremely annoyed by the action of Seruthunai Nayanar, when he found out the reason ( i.e Siva Aparadham) he took further action although she was his beloved > wife without thinking twice, his supreme love for the Lord had so completely overshadowed his love for his own wife and this shows most importantly he would do anything for the Lord. In this world you will find most men do absolutely anything for his wife not for the Lord. Finally the queen was simply an instrument in the hand of Lord Siva and I am sure by the grace of Lord Siva she wouldnt have faced much pain and most likely her past karmas would have been wiped out and attained His feet too. > > > As long as we are aware of our own individuality, stick to the code of right conduct: do not foolishly imitate the sages who dwell in a plane of consciousness, to which you are a complete stranger or find fault in them or judge them. > > > The Highest aspect of Siva according to God-Realised souls is that He is beyond good and bad. If you can dive into God-Consciousness you will know for certain that good and bad are just both sides of the same coin, in other words Maya. Lord Siva is impartial towards every living beings thats why He is the Supreme Lord, He has had and He will ever have a wide variety of devotees whether they are gods, demons, humans, animals, insects, etc, etc. Lord Siva always test His devotees for their unconditional devotion according to their nature before offer them a place at His Feet. Our little intellect should never be used to judge (goodness or badness) of His action as intellect itself is Maya. Lord Siva can never be knowable by our mind/intellect, one has to go beyond the consciousness of the body and mind. I emphasize you again that goodness and badness are condition of the mind not the Lord, He highest aspect is far beyond dual nature as per declaration of God realised > noble souls. > > Sivaya Namah > > > Denis Bujold <lavimem (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: > > please send me stories that discribe the goodness of God not the brutality of is devotees > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > om_namah_shivaya_ group@ s.com > selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.uk > Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:45:46 +0100 > [om_namah_shivaya_ group] Great Devotees of Lord Siva 52 & 53 > > Om Namah Sivaya > > Kazharsinga Nayanar And > Seruthunai Nayanar > Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to Gods grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. > > Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for Sivas worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. > > The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queens action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. > > > Sivaya Namah > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Soyez parmi les premiers à essayer Windows Live Mail. > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I would not worship a Lord who would have is devote cut the nose of someone who just smell the flower. Would you? Om Namh shyvaya Lavimem From: dev_maharajDate: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 19:53:46 -0700RE: Great Devotees of Lord Siva 52 & 53 Namaste And who amongst us can say what is worthy of the Lord, we would like to think that we know based on emotion, but what is in fact acceptable to the Lord can indeed be very different from what we deem to be acceptable.The only way of finding out for sure is to be able to meditate on the Deity and to be able to receive direct instruction personally.Namah SivayaBest RegardsPandit Devindra MaharajShiv Sewak <shiv_sewak > wrote: I have to agree with this. Anyway, what is wrong with smelling a flower for goodness sake? I would suggest that the summary punishment brutally meted out by Nayanar and the king is far more of an insult to the Lord than the woman's actions. Neither are worthy of the Lord.Denis Bujold <lavimem (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: please send me stories that discribe the goodness of God not the brutality of is devotees From: selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.ukDate: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:45:46 +0100 Great Devotees of Lord Siva 52 & 53 Om Namah Sivaya Kazharsinga Nayanar AndSeruthunai Nayanar Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to God’s grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for Siva’s worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queen’s action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. Sivaya Namah Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. Soyez parmi les premiers à essayer Windows Live Mail. Shiv Sewak CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: IMPORTANTThe information contained in this e-mail, including any attachment(s) is strictly confidential, legally privileged and intended for the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient (or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient) or have received it in error, you are not permitted to retain, use, disclose, disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail, including any attachment(s) or any part of it. Please immediately delete or destroy it and notify me by sending a return e-mail. Thank you Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search. Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.Visit the Auto Green Center. Soyez parmi les premiers à essayer Windows Live Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Of course if you are placing the whole discussion under the precept of the great paradox then there is no point in having this discussion at all. If all this is just Maya and everything being beyond good or bad then there is no point. We are not having this discussion and you are not reading this and all is maya. But the paradox is that still we are here on this plane where there is good and bad" This is now. this is the present . If you cut someones nose ther will be no excuses. It will be consider brutal and unacceptable. What is maya then. The here and the now or some philisophical explanation about what is permited on an other plane of existance. Om Namah Shyvaya Lavimem CC: selvaukFrom: mahamuniDate: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 17:31:07 -0400Re: RE: Great Devotees of Lord Siva 52 & 53 My request is that you don't post stories where innocent devotees of God are hurt by others, especially women being brutalized by men and then praised for it.Om Namah Shivaya!Surya---- Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: > Om Namah Sivaya > > > My humble request is that please never speak ill of the saints or devotees of God. They have attained union with God: and, so, if you vilify them, you are vilifying God Himself. It is the greatest sin. You cannot judge them: they live on a different plane of consciousness from yours. Our scriptures contain numerous illustrations of the strange behaviour of saints, sages and Yogis. Sometimes they behave as little children: sometimes as mad-men; sometimes as fools. Mysterious is the nature of saints. Always worship and adore them: you will be benefited. Do not criticise them or speak ill of them or find fault with their conduct. Our scriptures say that he who blames the conduct of the sages, gets their bad Karma, and suffers doubly in consequence. Beware!> > > This story is an extraordinary illustration of the nature of supreme devotion or Para Bhakti. It is its own law. The supreme devotee knows nothing but God and is actually oblivious of the world and its manners. He lives in God, for God and he is of God. At such a stage, God Himself takes charge of him! The completeness of the surrender is severely tested before this. Lord Siva was tested both of these devotees for their degree of surrender. Firstly Seruthunai Nayanar, he thought the queen insulted Lord Siva by smelling a flower which was originally kept for His worship and he took that action ( WITHOUT any selfish motive) although he knew that he would have almost faced the Death Penalty as she was a queen, this shows he was ready to give up his life for the Lord. Secondly although Kazharsinga Nayanar (the King) was extremely annoyed by the action of Seruthunai Nayanar, when he found out the reason ( i.e Siva Aparadham) he took further action although she was his beloved> wife without thinking twice, his supreme love for the Lord had so completely overshadowed his love for his own wife and this shows most importantly he would do anything for the Lord. In this world you will find most men do absolutely anything for his wife not for the Lord. Finally the queen was simply an instrument in the hand of Lord Siva and I am sure by the grace of Lord Siva she wouldn’t have faced much pain and most likely her past karmas would have been wiped out and attained His feet too.> > > As long as we are aware of our own individuality, stick to the code of right conduct: do not foolishly imitate the sages who dwell in a plane of consciousness, to which you are a complete stranger or find fault in them or judge them.> > > The Highest aspect of Siva according to God-Realised souls is that He is beyond good and bad. If you can dive into God-Consciousness you will know for certain that good and bad are just both sides of the same coin, in other words Maya. Lord Siva is impartial towards every living beings that’s why He is the Supreme Lord, He has had and He will ever have a wide variety of devotees whether they are gods, demons, humans, animals, insects, etc, etc. Lord Siva always test His devotees for their unconditional devotion according to their nature before offer them a place at His Feet. Our little intellect should never be used to judge (goodness or badness) of His action as intellect itself is Maya. Lord Siva can never be knowable by our mind/intellect, one has to go beyond the consciousness of the body and mind. I emphasize you again that goodness and badness are condition of the mind not the Lord, He highest aspect is far beyond dual nature as per declaration of God realised> noble souls.> > Sivaya Namah> > > Denis Bujold <lavimem (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:> > please send me stories that discribe the goodness of God not the brutality of is devotees> > > > > selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.uk> Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:45:46 +0100> Great Devotees of Lord Siva 52 & 53> > Om Namah Sivaya> > Kazharsinga Nayanar And> Seruthunai Nayanar > Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to God’s grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. > > Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for Siva’s worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. > > The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queen’s action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. > > > Sivaya Namah> > > > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. > > > > > > > > > Soyez parmi les premiers à essayer Windows Live Mail. > > > > > > > Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. 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Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Dear Members, My response is not in particular to this message but in general to all the responses that I am seeing to this particular story or 2 Siva bhakts and my question is that what is this all going top achieve? Are we going to go back in time and punish these 2 for the apparent cruelty or is all these responses only becuase we did not like this story? If we all have the option of reading only what we want. Whether this story is a fact or fiction, we can continue to dicuss this matter for eternity and nothing will come out. There is something that I read in the very earlier chapters of Siva Purana and and I believe is in Bhagvat Gita as well(I never read Bhagvat Gita but going only by the TV serial), it is not the action but the motive of the actions that matter. Any action performed should be without any expectation of personal benefit. Every action that people perform today is for some personal goal. Today, we cannot even imagine doing anything which is self-less. We are not in position to understand the significance of this story. Regards, Bhupendra.Shiv Sewak <shiv_sewak wrote: I agree, but would once again ask, what was wrong with picking up and smelling the flower? I cannot accept the celestials rained flowers down on these two barbarians. mahamuni (AT) cox (DOT) net wrote: Pretty barbaric, pitiful and heinous behaviour if you ask me! Harming and crippling this poor woman for a small accidental mistake. I guess our definition of saints differ!---- Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: > Om Namah Sivaya> > Kazharsinga Nayanar And> Seruthunai Nayanar > Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to God’s grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. > > Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for Siva’s worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. > > The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queen’s action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. > > > Sivaya Namah> > > > > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. Shiv Sewak CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: IMPORTANTThe information contained in this e-mail, including any attachment(s) is strictly confidential, legally privileged and intended for the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient (or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient) or have received it in error, you are not permitted to retain, use, disclose, disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail, including any attachment(s) or any part of it. Please immediately delete or destroy it and notify me by sending a return e-mail. Thank you oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. All new Mail Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I totally agree, this act was barbaric and both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar according to me were no great saints. Saints and devotees of Shiva are to be forgiving and loving not cutting people's hands and noses. Also , to commit such act in the name of God and be glorified is a very hypocritical and non pious act which defames religion. , <mahamuni wrote: > > Pretty barbaric, pitiful and heinous behaviour if you ask me! Harming and crippling this poor woman for a small accidental mistake. I guess our definition of saints differ! > > ---- Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk wrote: > > Om Namah Sivaya > > > > Kazharsinga Nayanar And > > Seruthunai Nayanar > > Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to GodÂ's grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. > > > > Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for SivaÂ's worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. > > > > The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queenÂ's action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. > > > > > > Sivaya Namah > > > > > > > > > > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Ah, thank you; I follow the reasoning with regard to the building up of karma which fructifies in the present and can see the point that you make. I am not so sure about the rest of this as it relates to deities and rules for puja etc but I shall not comment on that aspect further. As I have said in the past, I walk a different path in the footsteps of my Guru so each to their own. Many thanks for your insight though.Dev Maharaj <dev_maharaj wrote: NamasteThe rules for Puja is that what ever is to be offered to a deity should never be tasted, smelt or impurified by even thoughts. This is why there are mudras and mantras to purify the offerings before being given to the deity. The Samanya Argha (water for washing of the mouth of the deity has a compendium of mantras designed to remove negativity. (I have personally tested this )The barbaric behaviour you think that was given to the queen while in a mundane sense is quite cruel has more to it. We tend to forget Prarabdha karma ( karma of the past that fructifies in the present), maybe it was a punishment to be given for past wrongs and by committing the act of smelling the flower this was a trigger to cause the punishment to be implemented. Also note that divine justice is quite different from human justice which operates on emotion, divine justice operates on many levels that are far different in logic or human acceptability.Namah SivayaBest RegardsPandit Devindra MaharajShiv Sewak <shiv_sewak > wrote: I agree, but would once again ask, what was wrong with picking up and smelling the flower? I cannot accept the celestials rained flowers down on these two barbarians. mahamuni (AT) cox (DOT) net wrote: Pretty barbaric, pitiful and heinous behaviour if you ask me! Harming and crippling this poor woman for a small accidental mistake. I guess our definition of saints differ!---- Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: > Om Namah Sivaya> > Kazharsinga Nayanar And> Seruthunai Nayanar > Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to God’s grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. > > Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for Siva’s worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. > > The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queen’s action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. > > > Sivaya Namah> > > > > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. Shiv Sewak CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: IMPORTANTThe information contained in this e-mail, including any attachment(s) is strictly confidential, legally privileged and intended for the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient (or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient) or have received it in error, you are not permitted to retain, use, disclose, disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail, including any attachment(s) or any part of it. Please immediately delete or destroy it and notify me by sending a return e-mail. Thank you oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.Visit the Auto Green Center. Shiv Sewak CONFIDENTIALITY CAUTION: IMPORTANTThe information contained in this e-mail, including any attachment(s) is strictly confidential, legally privileged and intended for the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient (or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient) or have received it in error, you are not permitted to retain, use, disclose, disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail, including any attachment(s) or any part of it. Please immediately delete or destroy it and notify me by sending a return e-mail. Thank you Get the free toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 NO comments but cant digest this information Denis Bujold <lavimem Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 8:13:55 AMRE: RE: Great Devotees of Lord Siva 52 & 53 Of course if you are placing the whole discussion under the precept of the great paradox then there is no point in having this discussion at all. If all this is just Maya and everything being beyond good or bad then there is no point. We are not having this discussion and you are not reading this and all is maya. But the paradox is that still we are here on this plane where there is good and bad" This is now. this is the present . If you cut someones nose ther will be no excuses. It will be consider brutal and unacceptable. What is maya then. The here and the now or some philisophical explanation about what is permited on an other plane of existance. Om Namah Shyvaya Lavimem om_namah_shivaya_ group@ s.comCC: selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.ukmahamuni (AT) cox (DOT) netThu, 14 Jun 2007 17:31:07 -0400Re: [om_namah_shivaya_ group] RE: Great Devotees of Lord Siva 52 & 53 My request is that you don't post stories where innocent devotees of God are hurt by others, especially women being brutalized by men and then praised for it.Om Namah Shivaya!Surya---- Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: > Om Namah Sivaya > > > My humble request is that please never speak ill of the saints or devotees of God. They have attained union with God: and, so, if you vilify them, you are vilifying God Himself. It is the greatest sin. You cannot judge them: they live on a different plane of consciousness from yours. Our scriptures contain numerous illustrations of the strange behaviour of saints, sages and Yogis. Sometimes they behave as little children: sometimes as mad-men; sometimes as fools. Mysterious is the nature of saints. Always worship and adore them: you will be benefited. Do not criticise them or speak ill of them or find fault with their conduct. Our scriptures say that he who blames the conduct of the sages, gets their bad Karma, and suffers doubly in consequence. Beware!> > > This story is an extraordinary illustration of the nature of supreme devotion or Para Bhakti. It is its own law. The supreme devotee knows nothing but God and is actually oblivious of the world and its manners. He lives in God, for God and he is of God. At such a stage, God Himself takes charge of him! The completeness of the surrender is severely tested before this. Lord Siva was tested both of these devotees for their degree of surrender. Firstly Seruthunai Nayanar, he thought the queen insulted Lord Siva by smelling a flower which was originally kept for His worship and he took that action ( WITHOUT any selfish motive) although he knew that he would have almost faced the Death Penalty as she was a queen, this shows he was ready to give up his life for the Lord. Secondly although Kazharsinga Nayanar (the King) was extremely annoyed by the action of Seruthunai Nayanar, when he found out the reason ( i.e Siva Aparadham) he took further action although she was his beloved> wife without thinking twice, his supreme love for the Lord had so completely overshadowed his love for his own wife and this shows most importantly he would do anything for the Lord. In this world you will find most men do absolutely anything for his wife not for the Lord. Finally the queen was simply an instrument in the hand of Lord Siva and I am sure by the grace of Lord Siva she wouldn’t have faced much pain and most likely her past karmas would have been wiped out and attained His feet too.> > > As long as we are aware of our own individuality, stick to the code of right conduct: do not foolishly imitate the sages who dwell in a plane of consciousness, to which you are a complete stranger or find fault in them or judge them.> > > The Highest aspect of Siva according to God-Realised souls is that He is beyond good and bad. If you can dive into God-Consciousness you will know for certain that good and bad are just both sides of the same coin, in other words Maya. Lord Siva is impartial towards every living beings that’s why He is the Supreme Lord, He has had and He will ever have a wide variety of devotees whether they are gods, demons, humans, animals, insects, etc, etc. Lord Siva always test His devotees for their unconditional devotion according to their nature before offer them a place at His Feet. Our little intellect should never be used to judge (goodness or badness) of His action as intellect itself is Maya. Lord Siva can never be knowable by our mind/intellect, one has to go beyond the consciousness of the body and mind. I emphasize you again that goodness and badness are condition of the mind not the Lord, He highest aspect is far beyond dual nature as per declaration of God realised> noble souls.> > Sivaya Namah> > > Denis Bujold <lavimem (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:> > please send me stories that discribe the goodness of God not the brutality of is devotees> > > ------------ --------- --------- ---> om_namah_shivaya_ group@ s.com> selvauk (AT) (DOT) co.uk> Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:45:46 +0100> [om_namah_shivaya_ group] Great Devotees of Lord Siva 52 & 53> > Om Namah Sivaya> > Kazharsinga Nayanar And> Seruthunai Nayanar > Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to God’s grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. > > Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for Siva’s worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. > > The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queen’s action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. > > > Sivaya Namah> > > ------------ --------- --------- ---> Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---> Soyez parmi les premiers à essayer Windows Live Mail. > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---> Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. Soyez parmi les premiers à essayer Windows Live Mail. Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Small Business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Namaste"Seruthunai Nayanar according to me were no great saints. Saints and devotees of Shiva are to be forgiving and loving not cutting people's hands and noses."_______According to you ?......on what basis have you become qualified to judge the action of the Nayanar.... emotion ? logic? what you think is right ?Please tell me where you have read/learned that Saints and devotees of Shiva are ONLY to be forgiving and loving ?(There is a phenomenon I have noticed where some Hindus try to sound a little more divine than others and in so doing come up with some pretty nonsensical thoughts which far deviate from what is the reality of the matter ! - everything is all bliss and Love and a little more Loove.)I suspect you are trying very hard to incorporate Vaishnava philosophy here, but for your information Shaivism and Shaktism are the hardest of ALL religious pursuits. The type of people that gravitate to success in this are usually the hardest, toughest, roughest, most extreme people ! This is for the reason that Lord Shiva /MA are really tough beings that will test your limits of endurance, patience and just about everything they think you need to pass before you graduate in their book, this is not only a one lifetime deal but can span lifetimes !Namah SivayaBest RegardsPandit Devindra Maharajrinkugandhi <rinkugandhi wrote: I totally agree, this act was barbaric and both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar according to me were no great saints. Saints and devotees of Shiva are to be forgiving and loving not cutting people's hands and noses. Also , to commit such act in the name of God and be glorified is a very hypocritical and non pious act which defames religion. , <mahamuni wrote: > > Pretty barbaric, pitiful and heinous behaviour if you ask me! Harming and crippling this poor woman for a small accidental mistake. I guess our definition of saints differ! > > ---- Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk wrote: > > Om Namah Sivaya > > > > Kazharsinga Nayanar And > > Seruthunai Nayanar > > Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to GodÂ's grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. > > > > Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for SivaÂ's worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. > > > > The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queenÂ's action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. > > > > > > Sivaya Namah > > > > > > > > > > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today. > Get the free toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I don't mean to criticize when it comes to the devotees of God, but it is truly sad when bhakti becomes a kind of religious fanaticism. If the bhakta does not have Shiva Dhristi, the understanding that the Lord dwells in the hearts of all, then IMHO the bhakta is not complete. To understand that the Lord, the offerings, and the one making the offering are one and the same, and expand that understanding to include the whole universe is the vision of Shiva and the grace of Shiva. The more present danger from these stories is that unscrupulous leaders and their followers use scriptural injunctions about not criticizing saints and stories of strange but saintly behavior to silence their critics and justify wild and selfish actions. Fear of karmic retribution becomes a means of crowd control, and rationalizing what's sometimes called crazy wisdom means a so-called saint can get away with anything. In any event it seems logically impossible to criticize a " saint " because to criticize means to not accept the status in the first place, unless we are expected to forsake our God given powers of discrimination and believe what we are told by others unconditionally. Anyway I believe the scriptures talk of various " degrees " of enlightenment and the process of the devotee's mind moving back and forth between the state of absorption in Shiva consciousness and the ordinary state. I don't perceive sainthood as a kind of on/off switch. Hasn't fanatic religious devotion historically caused people from every tradition to undertake countless acts of barbarism, including today's suicide bombers who now believe THEY are the martyrs of God? Without right understanding devotion can become terribly misguided. IMHO Mrityunjaya , " rinkugandhi " <rinkugandhi wrote: > > I totally agree, this act was barbaric and both the king and > Seruthunai Nayanar according to me were no great saints. Saints and > devotees of Shiva are to be forgiving and loving not cutting people's > hands and noses. > Also , to commit such act in the name of God and be glorified is a > very hypocritical and non pious act which defames religion. > > , <mahamuni@> wrote: > > > > Pretty barbaric, pitiful and heinous behaviour if you ask me! > Harming and crippling this poor woman for a small accidental > mistake. I guess our definition of saints differ! > > > > ---- Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk@> wrote: > > > Om Namah Sivaya > > > > > > Kazharsinga Nayanar And > > > Seruthunai Nayanar > > > Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He > was a Pallava monarch. Due to GodÂ's grace he defeated the kings of > the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many > pilgrimages. > > > > > > Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the > temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where > flowers had been kept for SivaÂ's worship, and she smelt a flower > which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a > pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was > annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that > smelt the flower. > > > > > > The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the > spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the > brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queenÂ's action > which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once > gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which > picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were > glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. > Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. > > > > > > > > > Sivaya Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for > less, sign up for your freeaccount today. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 , Dev Maharaj <dev_maharaj wrote: > > Namaste >This is for the reason that Lord Shiva /MA are really tough beings > that will test your limits of endurance, patience and just about > everything they think you need to pass before you graduate in their > book, this is not only a one lifetime deal but can span lifetimes ! > > Namah Sivaya > Best Regards > Pandit Devindra Maharaj I am not sure about this. Lord Siva is usually considered as generous and easily giving; hence he even liberates a devotee when the devotee shows a little bit of devotion. he is also called 'bholenath' for a similar reason. Vishnu / Krishna is not so easy to attain. " Natkat Raja " - mishief king - will make you work for it to get it; ask the Gopis! Ma could be tough all right. After all, MahaMaya is one aspect of Her; it is " job security " for Her to keep us in maya-land! . Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Om Namah Sivaya, Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa says: " In this Kali Yuga the violent form of devotion is more suitable than other forms; it brings about speedier fruition than do milder forms of contemplation. The citadel of God must be taken by storm." If fact he himself realised the Divine Mother when he was about to cut off his head with a sword in a desparation to realise Her. It is common practice among devotees of Sri Durga and Lord Subramanya (Skanda) to take extreme form of devotion. I myself fast continuously for six days only drinking water, milk and eat fruits at nights after hearing Mula-mantra of the Lord at a near by temple during Skanda Sashti every year, some devotees drink only just a glass of water. I don't really feel tiredness during this time by the grace of the Lord that I normally go to work, I get a lot of strength and Bliss from within. Devotees of Sri Durga do fast continuously during Navarathiri for 10 days with a little water, milk and fruits at nights. Devotees of Sri Durga do walk on fire with bare feet. Also devotees of Skanda do take Karvadi: Sivaya NamahDev Maharaj <dev_maharaj wrote: Namaste"Seruthunai Nayanar according to me were no great saints. Saints and devotees of Shiva are to be forgiving and loving not cutting people's hands and noses."_______According to you ?......on what basis have you become qualified to judge the action of the Nayanar.... emotion ? logic? what you think is right ?Please tell me where you have read/learned that Saints and devotees of Shiva are ONLY to be forgiving and loving ?(There is a phenomenon I have noticed where some Hindus try to sound a little more divine than others and in so doing come up with some pretty nonsensical thoughts which far deviate from what is the reality of the matter ! - everything is all bliss and Love and a little more Loove.)I suspect you are trying very hard to incorporate Vaishnava philosophy here, but for your information Shaivism and Shaktism are the hardest of ALL religious pursuits. The type of people that gravitate to success in this are usually the hardest, toughest, roughest, most extreme people ! This is for the reason that Lord Shiva /MA are really tough beings that will test your limits of endurance, patience and just about everything they think you need to pass before you graduate in their book, this is not only a one lifetime deal but can span lifetimes !Namah SivayaBest RegardsPandit Devindra Maharajrinkugandhi <rinkugandhi > wrote: I totally agree, this act was barbaric and both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar according to me were no great saints. Saints and devotees of Shiva are to be forgiving and loving not cutting people's hands and noses.Also , to commit such act in the name of God and be glorified is a very hypocritical and non pious act which defames religion. , <mahamuni wrote:>> Pretty barbaric, pitiful and heinous behaviour if you ask me! Harming and crippling this poor woman for a small accidental mistake. I guess our definition of saints differ!> > ---- Selvaratnam Selvakumar <selvauk wrote: > > Om Namah Sivaya> > > > Kazharsinga Nayanar And> > Seruthunai Nayanar > > Kazharsinga Nayanar was an ardent devotee of the Lord. He was a Pallava monarch. Due to GodÂ's grace he defeated the kings of the northern country and established Saivism there. He went on many pilgrimages. > > > > Once he came to Tiruvarur with his queen and visited the temple. The queen, coming round the temple, came to the place where flowers had been kept for SivaÂ's worship, and she smelt a flower which had accidentally fallen on the floor. Seruthunai Nayanar, a pious Siva Bakta, who was doing the service in the temple, was annoyed by her action. He at once cut off the nose of the queen that smelt the flower. > > > > The king, hearing the pitiable cry of the queen, rushed to the spot. He was terribly angry with the man who was responsible for the brutal act. Seruthunai Nayanar explained to him the queenÂ's action which was an insult to Lord Siva (Siva Aparadham). The king at once gave an additional punishment to her, by cutting off her hand which picked up the flower! Both the king and Seruthunai Nayanar were glorified by the people and the celestials rained flowers on them. Both of them attained the grace of Lord Siva. > > > > > > Sivaya Namah> > > > > > > > > > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today.> Get the free toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. New Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Namaste Lord Siva is usually considered as generous and easily giving; hence he even liberates a devotee when the devotee shows a little bit of devotion. he is also called 'bholenath' for a similar reason._________I agree with this in general but I have also had the pleasure of ticking Lord Shiva off - after a seven year lesson...., I can assure you that what I wrote is also 100% the case. You see, we generally make the mistake of assuming that God is static and that what we have read in a book or listened to from someone else will ALWAYS be the case. We also tend to try to equate God's consciousness with our limited self, this is not so at all, as God is infinitely more evolved and can in the wink of an eye change his/her mind to fulfill a greater purpose.One lesson my guru first taught me is to always be attentive ! Namah SivayaBest RegardsPandit Devindra Maharajmanoj_menon <manoj_menon wrote: , Dev Maharaj <dev_maharaj wrote: > > Namaste >This is for the reason that Lord Shiva /MA are really tough beings > that will test your limits of endurance, patience and just about > everything they think you need to pass before you graduate in their > book, this is not only a one lifetime deal but can span lifetimes ! > > Namah Sivaya > Best Regards > Pandit Devindra Maharaj I am not sure about this. Lord Siva is usually considered as generous and easily giving; hence he even liberates a devotee when the devotee shows a little bit of devotion. he is also called 'bholenath' for a similar reason. Vishnu / Krishna is not so easy to attain. "Natkat Raja" - mishief king - will make you work for it to get it; ask the Gopis! Ma could be tough all right. After all, MahaMaya is one aspect of Her; it is "job security" for Her to keep us in maya-land! . Jai Ma! Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 >You see, we generally make the mistake of assuming that God is > static and that what we have read in a book or listened to from someone else will ALWAYS be the case. We also tend to try to equate God's consciousness with our limited self, this is not so at all, as God is infinitely more evolved and can in the wink of an eye change his/her mind to fulfill a greater purpose. > Dear Sri Pandit ji, Namaste ! While I don't disagree that God acts (I have myself experienced his healing power), I have a question here. If God intervenes then he/she is making choices. Can you imagine a God who decides, ok - these folks in Darfur should remain hungry today, while so and so will get murdered today, while so and so will get blessings today. Can you imagine such a God ? It seems hard to believe in such a God. It seems more logical that people get according to their worth and their karma. Having said that, I also believe that power of God can be invoked via mantras, rituals and yagna but finite actions only yield a finite result. regards, Shailendra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Namaste bhatnagar_shailendra !***While I don't disagree that God acts (I have myself experienced his healing power), I have a question here.***If God intervenes then he/she is making choices. Can you imagine a God who decides, ok - these folks in Darfur should remain hungry today, while so and so will get murdered today, while so and so will get blessings today. Can you imagine such a God ? Yes I can imagine such a God ! I talk to Lord Shiva and Ma whenever they feel like it is necessary and get counselling on things that I undertake. I also have experienced where choices were made for me !It seems hard to believe in such a God. Why ?***It seems more logical that people get according to their worth and their karma. Yes but God being an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent being has the capacity, power and will to effect anything, therefore to assume that God can't or shouldn't act is to limit this being purely by what you think, which to the God really does not count for too much !***Having said that, I also believe that power of God can be invoked via mantras, rituals and yagna but finite actions only yield a finite result.Here you are somewhat misguided, only a minute portion of God's energy can be accessed, full access will erase your presence from the face of this earth !Therefore only finite access is granted which yields finite results !Namah SivayaBest RegardsPandit Devindra Maharajbhatnagar_shailendra <bhatnagar_shailendra wrote: >You see, we generally make the mistake of assuming that God is > static and that what we have read in a book or listened to from someone else will ALWAYS be the case. We also tend to try to equate God's consciousness with our limited self, this is not so at all, as God is infinitely more evolved and can in the wink of an eye change his/her mind to fulfill a greater purpose. > Dear Sri Pandit ji, Namaste ! While I don't disagree that God acts (I have myself experienced his healing power), I have a question here. If God intervenes then he/she is making choices. Can you imagine a God who decides, ok - these folks in Darfur should remain hungry today, while so and so will get murdered today, while so and so will get blessings today. Can you imagine such a God ? It seems hard to believe in such a God. It seems more logical that people get according to their worth and their karma. Having said that, I also believe that power of God can be invoked via mantras, rituals and yagna but finite actions only yield a finite result. regards, Shailendra oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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