Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I have a copy of "The Geeta: As a Chaitanyite Reads it" by "Tridandi Swami B.H. Bon" - published by Popular Book Depot, Bombay, in 1938, and it is dedicated his Guru, Srila Saraswati Prabhupada. The entire Gita is given as a summary translation with no purports or Sanskrit. Just English. Here is an example from page 72, written in the same way as the book, dealing with cause of sin... ARJUNA spoke: "O Barshneya! Thou Scion of the family of Brishni! Who prompts the jiva-soul to sin though it is quite against his will? Since Thou hast told me that a soul Is an ever-pure, self-conscious entity Free from the yoke of mundane relativities And that to sin is foreign to it's nature, Pray tell me plainly, who does insite to wicked acts The souls of this world that revel in foul sin?" Bhagavan replied: "Arjuna! know thou that kama, The devouring fierce desire, And flaming anger born of Rajas, Tempt souls to sin and therefore are The greatest enemy of mankind in this world. Kama is desire to lord it over earth's phenomena According to the hankerings of former births. Kama it is that takes another form As anger, when conditions differ. Rajas principle gives birth to kama, Which, when redressed in its fulfillment Is profaned by Tamas and manifests as anger. Kama is very fierce and insatiable."Richard Shaw Brown, PGMusician, Designer, Gemologist & Authorwww.richardshawbrown.com Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 My question Does a Devil has a soul within?--- On Tue, 11/24/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote: Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 Is sin caused by "the devil"? or what?"Sacred Objects Group" <sacred-objects >, "Planetary Group" <planetary-gemology >Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 9:12 AM I have a copy of "The Geeta: As a Chaitanyite Reads it" by "Tridandi Swami B.H. Bon" - published by Popular Book Depot, Bombay, in 1938, and it is dedicated his Guru, Srila Saraswati Prabhupada.The entire Gita is given as a summary translation with no purports or Sanskrit. Just English. Here is an example from page 72, written in the same way as the book, dealing with cause of sin...ARJUNA spoke: "O Barshneya! Thou Scion of the family of Brishni! Who prompts the jiva-soul to sin though it is quite against his will? Since Thou hast told me that a soul Is an ever-pure, self-conscious entityFree from the yoke of mundane relativitiesAnd that to sin is foreign to it's nature,Pray tell me plainly, who does insite to wicked actsThe souls of this world that revel in foul sin?"Bhagavan replied: "Arjuna! know thou that kama,The devouring fierce desire,And flaming anger born of Rajas,Tempt souls to sin and therefore areThe greatest enemy of mankind in this world.Kama is desire to lord it over earth's phenomenaAccording to the hankerings of former births.Kama it is that takes another formAs anger, when conditions differ.Rajas principle gives birth to kama,Which, when redressed in its fulfillmentIs profaned by Tamas and manifests as anger.Kama is very fierce and insatiable."Richard Shaw Brown, PGMusician, Designer, Gemologist & Authorwww.richardshawbrow n.com Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Firstly, there is no person, the devil, like in Christian sense, who is cause of sin. Krishna says human nature of LUST and ANGER are the cause of sin by the otherwise pure soul (atma). But souls who are demoniac, although pure in essence, are called "asuras" or devils, and of course they have a soul. Every living thing has a soul. Every living thing IS a soul. Y/s, R-Richard Shaw Brown, PGMusician, Designer, Gemologist & Authorwww.richardshawbrown.com--- On Tue, 24/11/09, tp mods <tpmods wrote:tp mods <tpmodsRe: Is sin caused by "the devil"? or what?sacred-objects Date: Tuesday, 24 November, 2009, 11:33 PM My question Does a Devil has a soul within?--- On Tue, 11/24/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > wrote: Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > Is sin caused by "the devil"? or what?"Sacred Objects Group" <sacred-objects>, "Planetary Group" <planetary-gemology>Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 9:12 AM I have a copy of "The Geeta: As a Chaitanyite Reads it" by "Tridandi Swami B.H. Bon" - published by Popular Book Depot, Bombay, in 1938, and it is dedicated his Guru, Srila Saraswati Prabhupada.The entire Gita is given as a summary translation with no purports or Sanskrit. Just English. Here is an example from page 72, written in the same way as the book, dealing with cause of sin...ARJUNA spoke: "O Barshneya! Thou Scion of the family of Brishni! Who prompts the jiva-soul to sin though it is quite against his will? Since Thou hast told me that a soul Is an ever-pure, self-conscious entityFree from the yoke of mundane relativitiesAnd that to sin is foreign to it's nature,Pray tell me plainly, who does insite to wicked actsThe souls of this world that revel in foul sin?"Bhagavan replied: "Arjuna! know thou that kama,The devouring fierce desire,And flaming anger born of Rajas,Tempt souls to sin and therefore areThe greatest enemy of mankind in this world.Kama is desire to lord it over earth's phenomenaAccording to the hankerings of former births.Kama it is that takes another formAs anger, when conditions differ.Rajas principle gives birth to kama,Which, when redressed in its fulfillmentIs profaned by Tamas and manifests as anger.Kama is very fierce and insatiable."Richard Shaw Brown, PGMusician, Designer, Gemologist & Authorwww.richardshawbrow n.com Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. com. Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Shri Richard jiNoted so isn't this tell that sin maker is soul himself rather than the karta(the one who commits it)?Human Nature is less superior to atma then how any soul can be demonic?Phalashruti can be something like this that any soul must undergo theory of karma and perhaps that is what Shri Krishna said.my 2 paisa views,I may be wrong.pranam--- On Tue, 11/24/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote:Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66Re: Is sin caused by "the devil"? or what?sacred-objects Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 2:18 PM Â Firstly, there is no person, the devil, like in Christian sense, who is cause of sin. Krishna says human nature of LUST and ANGER are the cause of sin by the otherwise pure soul (atma). But souls who are demoniac, although pure in essence, are called "asuras" or devils, and of course they have a soul. Every living thing has a soul. Every living thing IS a soul. Y/s, R-Richard Shaw Brown, PGMusician, Designer, Gemologist & Authorwww.richardshawbrow n.com--- On Tue, 24/11/09, tp mods <tpmods (AT) (DOT) com> wrote:tp mods <tpmods >Re: Is sin caused by "the devil"? or what?sacred-objectsTuesday, 24 November, 2009, 11:33 PM Â My question Does a Devil has a soul within?--- On Tue, 11/24/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > wrote: Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > Is sin caused by "the devil"? or what?"Sacred Objects Group" <sacred-objects>, "Planetary Group" <planetary-gemology>Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 9:12 AM Â I have a copy of "The Geeta: As a Chaitanyite Reads it" by "Tridandi Swami B.H. Bon" - published by Popular Book Depot, Bombay, in 1938, and it is dedicated his Guru, Srila Saraswati Prabhupada.The entire Gita is given as a summary translation with no purports or Sanskrit. Just English. Here is an example from page 72, written in the same way as the book, dealing with cause of sin...ARJUNA spoke: "O Barshneya! Thou Scion of the family of Brishni! Who prompts the jiva-soul to sin though it is quite against his will? Since Thou hast told me that a soul Is an ever-pure, self-conscious entityFree from the yoke of mundane relativitiesAnd that to sin is foreign to it's nature,Pray tell me plainly, who does insite to wicked actsThe souls of this world that revel in foul sin?"Bhagavan replied: "Arjuna! know thou that kama,The devouring fierce desire,And flaming anger born of Rajas,Tempt souls to sin and therefore areThe greatest enemy of mankind in this world.Kama is desire to lord it over earth's phenomenaAccording to the hankerings of former births.Kama it is that takes another formAs anger, when conditions differ.Rajas principle gives birth to kama,Which, when redressed in its fulfillmentIs profaned by Tamas and manifests as anger.Kama is very fierce and insatiable."Richard Shaw Brown, PGMusician, Designer, Gemologist & Authorwww.richardshawbrow n.com Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. com. Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Perhaps... sacred-objects , tp mods <tpmods wrote: > > Shri Richard jiNoted so isn't this tell that sin maker is soul himself rather than the karta(the one who commits it)?Human Nature is less superior to atma then how any soul can be demonic?Phalashruti can be something like this that any soul must undergo theory of karma and perhaps that is what Shri Krishna said. > my 2 paisa views,I may be wrong.pranam > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote: > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > Re: Is sin caused by " the devil " ? or what? > sacred-objects > Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 2:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > Firstly, there is no person, the devil, like in Christian sense, who is cause of sin. Krishna says human nature of LUST and ANGER are the cause of sin by the otherwise pure soul (atma). But souls who are demoniac, although pure in essence, are called " asuras " or devils, and of course they have a soul. Every living thing has a soul. Every living thing IS a soul. Y/s, R- > > > Richard Shaw Brown, PG > Musician, Designer, Gemologist & Author > www.richardshawbrow n.com > > --- On Tue, 24/11/09, tp mods <tpmods > > wrote: > > tp mods <tpmods > > Re: Is sin caused by " the devil " ? or what? > sacred-objects > Tuesday, 24 November, 2009, 11:33 PM > Â My question > Does a Devil has a soul within? > > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > wrote: > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > > Is sin caused by " the devil " ? or what? > " Sacred Objects Group " <sacred-objects>, " Planetary Group " <planetary-gemology> > Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 9:12 AM > > > Â > > > > I have a copy of " The Geeta: As a Chaitanyite Reads it " by " Tridandi Swami B.H. Bon " - published by Popular Book Depot, Bombay, in 1938, and it is dedicated his Guru, Srila Saraswati Prabhupada. > > The entire Gita is given as a summary translation with no purports or Sanskrit. Just English. Here is an example from page 72, written in the same way as the book, dealing with cause of sin... > > ARJUNA spoke: " O Barshneya! > Thou Scion of the family of Brishni! > Who prompts the jiva-soul to sin though it is quite against his will? > Since Thou hast told me that a soul > Is an ever-pure, > self-conscious > entity > Free from the yoke of mundane relativities > And that to sin is foreign to it's nature, > Pray tell me plainly, who does insite to wicked acts > The souls of this world that revel in foul sin? " > > Bhagavan replied: " Arjuna! know thou that kama, > The devouring fierce desire, > And flaming anger born of Rajas, > Tempt souls to sin and therefore are > The greatest enemy of mankind in this world. > Kama is desire to lord it over earth's phenomena > According to the hankerings of former births. > Kama it is that takes another form > As anger, when conditions differ. > Rajas principle gives birth to kama, > Which, when redressed in its fulfillment > Is profaned by Tamas and manifests as anger. > Kama is very fierce and > insatiable. " > > > Richard Shaw Brown, PG > Musician, Designer, Gemologist & Author > www.richardshawbrow n.com > > > Get your preferred Email name! > Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your preferred Email name! > > Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. com. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 The best answer to your question of the jivatma being superior or inferior to Maya is " BOTH " . Here is the situation: Dos Mula By Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura The TEN ROOTS (of Gaudiya Vaishnavism) Translation by Richard Shaw Brown 1. Vedic Authority (which proclaims...) 2. The highest tattva (reality) is Hari; 3. He possesses all potencies; 4. He is an ocean of (transcendental) tastes; 5. The jiva-souls are His separate particles; 6. They (the jiva-souls) can become bound up by material energy; 7. And they (the jiva-souls) can also become freed from material bondage; 8. Everything is a manifestation of Hari which is both different and non different (from Him); 9. The spiritual method is pure bhakti (devoid of karma-misra & jnana-misra); 10. The spiritual goal is divine love only; These (10 roots) are the direct teachings (advice) of Gaura Chandra Himself. " sacred-objects , " rsbj66 " <rsbj66 wrote: > > Perhaps... > > sacred-objects , tp mods <tpmods@> wrote: > > > > Shri Richard jiNoted so isn't this tell that sin maker is soul himself rather than the karta(the one who commits it)?Human Nature is less superior to atma then how any soul can be demonic?Phalashruti can be something like this that any soul must undergo theory of karma and perhaps that is what Shri Krishna said. > > my 2 paisa views,I may be wrong.pranam > > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote: > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > Re: Is sin caused by " the devil " ? or what? > > sacred-objects > > Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 2:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Firstly, there is no person, the devil, like in Christian sense, who is cause of sin. Krishna says human nature of LUST and ANGER are the cause of sin by the otherwise pure soul (atma). But souls who are demoniac, although pure in essence, are called " asuras " or devils, and of course they have a soul. Every living thing has a soul. Every living thing IS a soul. Y/s, R- > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown, PG > > Musician, Designer, Gemologist & Author > > www.richardshawbrow n.com > > > > --- On Tue, 24/11/09, tp mods <tpmods > > > wrote: > > > > tp mods <tpmods > > > Re: Is sin caused by " the devil " ? or what? > > sacred-objects > > Tuesday, 24 November, 2009, 11:33 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My question > > Does a Devil has a soul within? > > > > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > wrote: > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > > > Is sin caused by " the devil " ? or what? > > " Sacred Objects Group " <sacred-objects>, " Planetary Group " <planetary-gemology> > > Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 9:12 AM > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > I have a copy of " The Geeta: As a Chaitanyite Reads it " by " Tridandi Swami B.H. Bon " - published by Popular Book Depot, Bombay, in 1938, and it is dedicated his Guru, Srila Saraswati Prabhupada. > > > > The entire Gita is given as a summary translation with no purports or Sanskrit. Just English. Here is an example from page 72, written in the same way as the book, dealing with cause of sin... > > > > ARJUNA spoke: " O Barshneya! > > Thou Scion of the family of Brishni! > > Who prompts the jiva-soul to sin though it is quite against his will? > > Since Thou hast told me that a soul > > Is an ever-pure, > > self-conscious > > entity > > Free from the yoke of mundane relativities > > And that to sin is foreign to it's nature, > > Pray tell me plainly, who does insite to wicked acts > > The souls of this world that revel in foul sin? " > > > > Bhagavan replied: " Arjuna! know thou that kama, > > The devouring fierce desire, > > And flaming anger born of Rajas, > > Tempt souls to sin and therefore are > > The greatest enemy of mankind in this world. > > Kama is desire to lord it over earth's phenomena > > According to the hankerings of former births. > > Kama it is that takes another form > > As anger, when conditions differ. > > Rajas principle gives birth to kama, > > Which, when redressed in its fulfillment > > Is profaned by Tamas and manifests as anger. > > Kama is very fierce and > > insatiable. " > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown, PG > > Musician, Designer, Gemologist & Author > > www.richardshawbrow n.com > > > > > > Get your preferred Email name! > > Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your preferred Email name! > > > > Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. com. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 Thanks a tonn for enlightening me,m really thankful for this reply with comments.--- On Wed, 11/25/09, rsbj66 <rsbj66 wrote:rsbj66 <rsbj66 Re: Is sin caused by "the devil"? or what?sacred-objects Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 4:28 PM  The best answer to your question of the jivatma being superior or inferior to Maya is "BOTH". Here is the situation: Dos Mula By Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura The TEN ROOTS (of Gaudiya Vaishnavism) Translation by Richard Shaw Brown 1. Vedic Authority (which proclaims... ) 2. The highest tattva (reality) is Hari; 3. He possesses all potencies; 4. He is an ocean of (transcendental) tastes; 5. The jiva-souls are His separate particles; 6. They (the jiva-souls) can become bound up by material energy; 7. And they (the jiva-souls) can also become freed from material bondage; 8. Everything is a manifestation of Hari which is both different and non different (from Him); 9. The spiritual method is pure bhakti (devoid of karma-misra & jnana-misra) ; 10. The spiritual goal is divine love only; These (10 roots) are the direct teachings (advice) of Gaura Chandra Himself." sacred-objects, "rsbj66" <rsbj66 wrote: > > Perhaps... > > sacred-objects, tp mods <tpmods@> wrote: > > > > Shri Richard jiNoted so isn't this tell that sin maker is soul himself rather than the karta(the one who commits it)?Human Nature is less superior to atma then how any soul can be demonic?Phalashruti can be something like this that any soul must undergo theory of karma and perhaps that is what Shri Krishna said. > > my 2 paisa views,I may be wrong.pranam > > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote: > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > Re: Is sin caused by "the devil"? or what? > > sacred-objects > > Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 2:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Firstly, there is no person, the devil, like in Christian sense, who is cause of sin. Krishna says human nature of LUST and ANGER are the cause of sin by the otherwise pure soul (atma). But souls who are demoniac, although pure in essence, are called "asuras" or devils, and of course they have a soul. Every living thing has a soul. Every living thing IS a soul. Y/s, R- > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown, PG > > Musician, Designer, Gemologist & Author > > www.richardshawbrow n.com > > > > --- On Tue, 24/11/09, tp mods <tpmods > > > wrote: > > > > tp mods <tpmods > > > Re: Is sin caused by "the devil"? or what? > > sacred-objects > > Tuesday, 24 November, 2009, 11:33 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My question > > Does a Devil has a soul within? > > > > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > wrote: > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > > > Is sin caused by "the devil"? or what? > > "Sacred Objects Group" <sacred-objects>, "Planetary Group" <planetary-gemology > > > Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 9:12 AM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > I have a copy of "The Geeta: As a Chaitanyite Reads it" by "Tridandi Swami B.H. Bon" - published by Popular Book Depot, Bombay, in 1938, and it is dedicated his Guru, Srila Saraswati Prabhupada. > > > > The entire Gita is given as a summary translation with no purports or Sanskrit. Just English. Here is an example from page 72, written in the same way as the book, dealing with cause of sin... > > > > ARJUNA spoke: "O Barshneya! > > Thou Scion of the family of Brishni! > > Who prompts the jiva-soul to sin though it is quite against his will? > > Since Thou hast told me that a soul > > Is an ever-pure, > > self-conscious > > entity > > Free from the yoke of mundane relativities > > And that to sin is foreign to it's nature, > > Pray tell me plainly, who does insite to wicked acts > > The souls of this world that revel in foul sin?" > > > > Bhagavan replied: "Arjuna! know thou that kama, > > The devouring fierce desire, > > And flaming anger born of Rajas, > > Tempt souls to sin and therefore are > > The greatest enemy of mankind in this world. > > Kama is desire to lord it over earth's phenomena > > According to the hankerings of former births. > > Kama it is that takes another form > > As anger, when conditions differ. > > Rajas principle gives birth to kama, > > Which, when redressed in its fulfillment > > Is profaned by Tamas and manifests as anger. > > Kama is very fierce and > > insatiable." > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown, PG > > Musician, Designer, Gemologist & Author > > www.richardshawbrow n.com > > > > > > Get your preferred Email name! > > Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your preferred Email name! > > > > Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. com. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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