Guest guest Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 No, I dont claim any such process or knowledge. As far as I am concerned - "Tapas, swadhyaya, mahad pada rajobhishekam" will continue irrespective of time or state. Ultimately brahmacharya is an internal state of being.Coming to your questions. I have a few objections. We have by default accepted the scriptures to be absolute - I am not convinced of this. However the sutras might contain the highest essence, but the same cannot be said of their interpretation because the interpretation is tainted by memory - which is why we have so many interpretations apparently contradicting, where in reality there is no contradiction - only contextual understanding. If the objective reality is one - there cannot be multiple interpretations of it - only contextual understanding of it that might seem at conflict. Isnt it?First can you understand that the body has no seperate existence outside the memory of it? The material constituents are a reality - however, what we call the body does not exist!Let me illustrate, you wear a ring on your finger, overtime the memory accepts it as a part of its body. remove the ring, and the memory that registered the ring feels something is missing in the body. Eventually it adapts. It is the same with the limbs. loss of a limb does not compromise the "I" consciousness, yet the memory of the limb feels compromised. Hence, firstly, what constitutes your body is purely the function of your memory, yet holding on to this thing that we call a body is also the delusion that we call maya isnt it? You know this too!So firstly, before you proceed to what we do know know or cannot know - the brahman, or the supreme being (which we assume to be known through scriptures)- isnt it worth examining what we already know? the body, the mind and the material existence? Firstly, we have a mind represented notion of consciousness, which we call the jiva, which is essentially a part of the nature of the whole that is. Through this mind represented notion of consciousness we give birth to perception through senses that we call thought. Thought that is hence born becomes memory, and memory becomes the source of further thuoghts. Through this constant perception of reality through thought comes attachment that yuo call bondage. Do you see how all the questions you asked can at once be addressed from this being itself that you can observe? Except of course for accounting for bhagavan and elucidating the nature of origin of universe itself - which no matter what yuo do will always remain a speculation.I will respond to the other mail, later since I am in a net center and out of money beyond one hour :)Thanks for giving me this opportunity to learn and share too --- On Wed, 5/13/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote:Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussionsacred-objects Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 2:15 AM Dear Sriman, All right! You must have spent many years as brahmachari in ashram of Guru learning Vedanta in some sampradaya to be such a Jnani. !) How do you account for your material bondage? - Is Maya greater than you (Brahman)? 2) How do you account for Maya? - where from has it arisen? 3) How do you account for Bhagavan? - or are you a nihilistic atheist? 4) What has created Maya? Brahma? You? - is there no intelligent design in Maya? 5) Matter (jada) or Maya is composed of material atoms, what is the Jiva (Brahman) composed of? 6) Where has Jada come from? Who controls? Why are YOU and I in bondage of Maya? --->Here is my position summed up by Bhaktivinode as Dos Mula: Dos Mula By Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura (Kamala Manjari) Translation by Richard Shaw Brown The TEN ROOTS are... 1. Vedic Authority (which proclaims... ) 2. The highest tattva (reality) is Hari; 3. He possesses all potencies; 4. He is an ocean of (transcendental) tastes; 5. The jiva-souls are His separate particles; 6. They (the jiva-souls) can become bound up by material energy; 7. And they (the jiva-souls) can also become freed from material bondage; 8. Everything is a manifestation of Hari which is both different and non different (from Him); 9. The spiritual method is pure bhakti (devoid of karma-misra & jnana-misra) ; 10. The spiritual goal is divine love only... These (10 roots) are the direct teachings (advice) of Gaura Chandra Himself." ---Rather than give my ideas I better quote the Mahajanas. So I'll post each verse of Brahma Sutra with Sri Bhashya of Ramanujacharya, and you can post Shankar-Bhashya likewise. Then it is not our speculations. Y/s, R- sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote: > > You can call me anything you please. On the contrary, I consider everyone of us here as quacks. Even the most so called vedantic experts. > > The same Sankara who wrote the brahma sutra bhasyas also compiled the bhaja govindam. Duality is true till the experience of non-duality manifests, the question is can yuo ever will this experience to manifest irrespective of how rigerously you pursue any path. My answer from my experience so far is "NO". And I stand by it. > > I will wait for your discourse on vedanta. I dont have the fear of being wrong, because even if I am wrong, I will be honest, in that I will only talk of my personal experience IRRESPECTIVE of the number of sutras you bring forward.. If you have moved past the first sutra - the in all likelyhood you have understood nothing of it and are searching for some other sutra to understand it. One can at most be a great thinker or a parrot of a great thinker, I refuse to be both. > > Quite simply put, You and I have the same equipment that a Ramanuja or > a Sankara has in the the pursuit of whatever you choose to name it. All > one has to do is look inward and see what one is looking at. All I am > also saying is, by accepting the acharyas to be absolute, you are > killing the possibility of knowing what they are actually talking > about. I will leave the creation of ashrams and followers to such > illustrious people as yourself. > > > > Truth unfortunately is much simpler than you make it to be! Yet all we can have is a hint of its essence. the hint is contained in the first sutra "Athatho Brahma jigyasa". I rest my case till later, waiting to learn something that you claim to know, and apparently you theorize I dont know. > > Regards, > Surya. > > PS - At sacredtexts archive link that I posted earlier, you will find the entire commentary on brahma sutras posted. > > > > --- On Tue, 5/12/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote: > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > sacred-objects > Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 5:36 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, your conclusion is at odds with all previous acharyas. Are you an Acharya, better than Ramanuja, Madhva, Chaitanya, etc? Are you and your mind superior to such seers? > > If you think so then what is your Sampradaya? How many followers do you have? If you have not studied Brahma Sutras then just admit it. I think you know little about philosophy and have never made a study. Are you a religious scholar? I think you are a quack. > > > > Y/s, > > Richard > > > > Here is some varied information on Vedanta Sutras from WWWiki... > > > > Many commentaries have been written on this text, the earliest extant one being the one by Adi Shankara. His commentary set forth the non-dualistic (Advaita) interpretation of the Vedanta, and was commented upon by Vacaspati and Padmapada. These sub-commentaries, in turn, inspired other derivative texts in the Advaita school. > > > > Ramanuja also wrote a commentary on the Brahma sutra, called Sri Bhasya, which lays the foundations of the Vishishtadvaita tradition. In this, he firmly refutes the Advaita view as proposed by Adi Shankara in his commentary. > > > > Other commentators on the Brahma Sutras, belonging to other schools of Vedanta, include Bhaskara, Yadavapraksha, Keshava, Nilakanta, Madhvacharya, Vallabha, Vijnanabhiksu, Nimbarka, and Baladeva Vidyashana. > > > > The Brahma Sutras attempt to reconcile the seemingly contradictory and diverse statements of the various Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita;, by placing each teaching in a doctrinal context. The word sutra means thread, and the Brahma sutras literally stitch together the various Vedanta teachings into a logical and self-consistent whole. > > However, the Brahma Sutras are so terse that not only are they capable of being interpreted in multiple ways, but they are often incomprehensible without the aid of the various commentaries handed down in the main schools of Vedanta thought. > > The Vedanta Sutras supply ample evidence that at a very early time, i.e. a period before their own final composition, there were differences of opinion among the various interpreters of the Vedanta. > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > There is nothing but brahman, what obstructs this is thought that is operational and that clings to existence to survive. Thought Justifies itself. From the thought come the questions, through the questions thought hopes to alter itself to help it survive. It obstructs the flow of life, it creates the illusion that body is - it creates the illusion that the world is, it feels seperate from the reality that it is a part of. This division is what we call duality, an illusion - the act we call which is that of maya - thought clings to duality because end of duality threatens its survival - from duality comes the need to measure, from the need to measure comes the sense of time, from time comes memory, from repeated memory comes karma, from karma comes samskaras, from samskaras come the possibility of action, from action thought solidifies into existence. > > > > > > So? > > > > > > --- On Mon, 5/11/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote: > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > sacred-objects > > > Monday, May 11, 2009, 9:19 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to hold a discussion on Vedanta Sutra. But you have said of yourself, "Again, I am speculating here, but such is the nature of thought." We are not discussing "thought". > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not know Vedanta Sutra then please don't speculate. If you are ignorant of Vedanta Sutra then be honest and say so... Have you EVER read Vedanta Sutras? If so, stick to the subject; if not then don't argue. > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My statement: "Here "YOU" refers to everyone of us". Do I need to explain further? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is how the mind operates, it is the same for everyone of us. We are all essentially parrots, yet this is very difficult to accept. > > > > > > > Truth is much simpler than we are willing to accept. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me elaborate a bit on what you said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " BUT, I am sat-chit-ananda Brahman as Jivatma, and even when sleeping I am alive." > > > > > > > How can we say that the bed is not alive - the entire existence is throbbing with life, the only difference we have as individuals is that thought is operational in us! The entire being is sustained to let the thought live - isnt it? It is the thought that is differentiating you from your bed and telling you that you are alive and not the bed. In reality, if "Aham brahmasmi" manifests, YOU HAVE TO BE YOUR BED also. Again, I am speculating here, but such is the nature of thought.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Who is the cause of Brahma (Chaturmukh) , or Brahman?? Bhahmins in Kali Yuga are based on "guna" and "karma" NOT janma." > > > > > > > How can we experience Brahma or Brahman when the very there is no escape from the very veil that is covering it? You create guna forcing differentiation between what are essentially the same! "actioninaction" are esentially the same in essence. Can you understand that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Thinking by the JIvatma through the "mana-deha" is covered by Maya. There are 3 distinct and different tattvas in Brahman: Bhagavan-Paramatma, Jivatma, Maya. The relationships of these must be understood.. ." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have we understood what each of these tatvas actually are other than their names? what do we mean by understanding the relationships of these if we dont understand the words themselves experientially? Yet swami's after swami's - guru's after guru's tell you the same things! They quote scriptures, scriptures are the outcome of the experience of the person who experienced them, they are corrupted representations of the original experience. How can we own them? On the contrary except for using them in the context of the world, its easy to reject them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Who has created this reality? Well, it was never created. It is eternal." > > > > > > > True, but even this is mere speculation if you reject the scriptures.. Isnt it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "In Brahma-jyoti exist eternal Vaikuntha." > > > > > > > How do you know this outside the scriptures that tell you this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Only the Maya-shakti is manifesting brahmandas and samsara according to time," > > > > > > > Beautiful, and its easy to see this if at all you follow that the maya is operational only in your waking and dreaming state. It vanishes in samadhi - yet the samadhi that ends to bring thought back to operation is incomplete - hence there is a hope to be a jivana mukta - where samadhi continues in waking state - yet the existence of such a state is mere speculation for you and me who have not been in it to begin with. Again, we are "TOLD" that Janka, suka etc have been in that state. Time comes because of the need of thought to measure, take this need away then time vanishes too. Yet - what do we know about this process experientially? Nothing! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "and as impregnated with the badha Jivas...these take place in time, a material tattva, and Paramatma is responsible. We the Jivatatma can choose material OR spiritual. Now we are in material (prakriti)." > > > > > > > We are not qualified to talk about anything but the material tattva - isnt it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not here to prove that you have no spiritual understanding of vedanta. Perhaps you do, perhaps there is much I can learn. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had written something for my friend and he has put it on the blog, I put the link of the same here to put forward my understanding of nature: > > > > > > > http://drishtikone. com/?q=blog/ art-thinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If "Aham brahmasmi" can be true, then a man contains within himself everything that he needs to know everything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > Rick Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > Sacred Group Group <sacred-objects> > > > > > > > Sunday, May 10, 2009 11:35:13 AM > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW: We are discussing Vedanta.. can you prove that I don't have spiritual understanding of Vedanta? Are you able to prove your accusation? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Brown's iPhone > > > > > > > www.richardshawbrow n..com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 10, 2009, at 12:13 PM, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You just recounting what you have read, none of this can be your own experience. Hence, none of this is anything but your "Memory" of what you have read. You cannot know what any of it actually means, less own the meaning of what it stands for. Here "YOU" refers to everyone of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you are asleep, the thought that you are different from your bed does not arise - when you wake yuo tell yuorself that yuo were always seperate from the bed because thought is fully operational there in that state of waking. This is no different from what happens in a state of samadhi. We make a distinction between deep sleep and turiya or samadhi by saying, sleep is the state where distinction ceases but it corresponds to Tamasic - whereas in turiya it corresponds to saatvic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The distinction also arises, which says that "satchitananda" are the attributes and are seperate. However, I say that minus the thought, there is only one entity that represents all three of them - you can call it sat or chit or ananda. Ananda is end of suffering that the thought introduces because of the conflict. It is not sensual joy you experience through the medium of brain. If you have experienced it - it is not Ananda - it is a corrupted sensual version of Ananda. Similarly if you have experienced it - it is neither sat nor chit - unless you call existence as sat, this is also brahma gyana. isnt it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > Saturday, May 9, 2009 4:45:48 AM > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When YOU sleep maybe you're no different from your bed, but not me! My bed is jada, which is a-chit, a-sat, and nirananda, and is lifeless, BUT, I am sat-chit-ananda Brahman as Jivatma, and even when sleeping I am alive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is the cause of Brahma (Chaturmukh) , or Brahman?? Bhahmins in Kali Yuga are based on "guna" and "karma" NOT janma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thinking by the JIvatma through the "mana-deha" is covered by Maya. There are 3 distinct and different tattvas in Brahman: Bhagavan-Paramatma, Jivatma, Maya. The relationships of these must be understood.. . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who has created this reality? Well, it was never created. It is eternal. In Brahma-jyoti exist eternal Vaikuntha. Only the Maya-shakti is manifesting brahmandas and samsara according to time, and as impregnated with the badha Jivas...these take place in time, a material tattva, and Paramatma is responsible. We the Jivatatma can choose material OR spiritual. Now we are in material (prakriti). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown, PG > > > > > > > Musician, Designer, Gemologist & Author > > > > > > > www.richardshawbrow n.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 9/5/09, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > Saturday, 9 May, 2009, 9:02 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you sleep on your bed - you are no different from your bed. when you wake up, you see the bed as different from yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the thought that is the distinction and the maya. isnt cast system a thought too? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who can be the cause of brahma? assigning a cause would mean - that which is the cause itself is brahma. Isnt it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > 108 SRIMAD BHAKTI VEDENTA SYAMASUNDARA SARASWATI DASA <syamasundara100008 @ > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > Saturday, May 9, 2009 12:40:58 AM > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is the cause of Brahma...... ...!!!!!! !???????? > > > > > > > If we are all Brahmin..... ......... .!!!!!!.. ......... > > > > > > > Why do we have a caste system in.......... . ..Kali Yuga........ ..??????? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are ALL "Foot Soldiers"... ........motivate d by..........DESIRE. .........!! !!!!!!!!! ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Syama....... . ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 5/8/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > Friday, May 8, 2009, 1:31 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, if a light is covered it shines itself none-the-less.. So everything is Brahman. Aham Bhahmasmi - I am Brahman, tat-tvamasi - you are Brahman, Fine! So now we have solved the problems of life by this conclusion?? ? Are we no longer faced with Tritapa??? No more birth, old age, disease, or death, rebirth? So simply knowing I am Brahman is enough? If so, why are there MORE sutras? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the discussion. You are a philosopher. .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My point is that all the three states are actually the same, thought is operational even in deep sleep, the proof is that the breath is not stoping there. The only salvage is that the question of brahman perhaps ceases in deep sleep, and you become the bed you are on and everything else in existence.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question is also - what is not brahman - if there is something that is not brahman then we are attributing two entities of existence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > Wednesday, May 6, 2009 3:04:17 PM > > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The answer is 1) Wakefulness, 2) Dream state, 3) Deep Sleep. But the Subject is Brahman... What IS Brahman? That's the point... Y/s, R- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually there are many ways to answer that question, but that would be sans the point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > Rick Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > > > Sacred Group Group <sacred-objects> > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, May 6, 2009 12:00:22 AM > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who sleeps in the day??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Rick Brown's iPhone > > > > > > > > > www.richardshawbrow n.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 5, 2009, at 21:34, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What happens every day when you sleep? Does this thought as to if its established or not occur? In other words, what is causing the totality to vanish after sleep? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > Monday, May 4, 2009 11:10:15 AM > > > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we justify "Aham bramhasmi"? = I AM BRAHMAN (spiritual) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we justify "Tat-tvamasi" --- YOU ARE BRAHMAN (spiritual) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the Subject is Brahman = spiritual totality. Is that established? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, > > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have to ask ourselves, what is the actual object of the vedanta sutra bhasyas? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have often been enamored by the amount of hard work put into this website: > > > > > > > > > > http://sacred- / texts.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure how many of you have seen this site, but it truly is a treasure trove. Please promote it to all people who might have an inclination to either spirituality or religion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In any case, how can we justify "Aham bramhasmi"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, May 3, 2009 3:43:24 AM > > > > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Veda=awareness, anta=end (highest) truth of Brahman is, therefore, at question... "Athato brahmajijnasa" VDS#1, So subject is "Brahman." From the onset this is established. And from hereafter the agreement ends.. But it is the highest subject matter of discussion by swan like men of great merit who come in contact with our discussions of the great Brahma Sutras by "sukriti" and they/we will each go deeper as a result. Y/s, R- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, 108 SRIMAD BHAKTI VEDENTA SYAMASUNDARA SARASWATI DASA <syamasundara100008 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am learning.... . ......... ....!!!!! !!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > I "read"...... . .......all the time!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The "question" is.......... .....???? ????????. ........Do I understand.. ......... ..????? > > > > > > > > > > > What I .........."READ" ........... .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ONE MAN'S OPINION..... ......... ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fruit of Vedanta Sutra....... is SRI Mad....Bhagavatam. ............ !!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Syama....... .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 5/2/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > > > > > Vedanta Sutras > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, May 2, 2009, 4:50 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow!!! The growing of the WWW has made the Vedic knowledge available in a Google search. Still, how many members of this group have read the entire Vedana Sutra (Brahma-sutras) by Vyasa, upon which every Sampradaya in Hinduism, from advaitavaad to dvaitavaad, is based? How many here, besides me, have read it??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. ...eh!? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > font-weight: bold; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span..yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; } #ygrp-mlmsg a { color: #1E66AE; } div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } --> > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > Get your preferred Email name! > > > > > > > > > Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > New Email addresses available on > > > > > > > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. > > > > > > > Hurry before someone else does! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > Get your new Email address! > > > > > > > Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Well, sorry about your objections. If you reject Vedic authority then you are NOT Hindu. Again I ask you to answers these questions in reference to Vedanta Sutra... !) How do you account for your material bondage? - Is Maya greater than you (Brahman)? 2) How do you account for Maya? - where from has it arisen? 3) How do you account for Bhagavan? - or are you a nihilistic atheist? 4) What has created Maya? Brahma? You? - is there intelligent design in Maya? 5) Matter (jada) or Maya is composed of material atoms, what is the Jiva (Brahman) composed of? 6) Where has Jada come from? Who controls? Why are YOU and I in bondage of Maya? Please answer the above... Y/s, Richard sacred-objects , surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv wrote: > > No, I dont claim any such process or knowledge. > > As far as I am concerned - " Tapas, swadhyaya, mahad pada rajobhishekam " will continue irrespective of time or state. Ultimately brahmacharya is an internal state of being. > > Coming to your questions. I have a few objections. We have by default accepted the scriptures to be absolute - I am not convinced of this. However the sutras might contain the highest essence, but the same cannot be said of their interpretation because the interpretation is tainted by memory - which is why we have so many interpretations apparently contradicting, where in reality there is no contradiction - only contextual understanding. If the objective reality is one - there cannot be multiple interpretations of it - only contextual understanding of it that might seem at conflict. Isnt it? > > First can you understand that the body has no seperate existence outside the memory of it? The material constituents are a reality - however, what we call the body does not exist! > > Let me illustrate, you wear a ring on your finger, overtime the memory accepts it as a part of its body. remove the ring, and the memory that registered the ring feels something is missing in the body. Eventually it adapts. It is the same with the limbs. loss of a limb does not compromise the " I " consciousness, yet the memory of the limb feels compromised. Hence, firstly, what constitutes your body is purely the function of your memory, yet holding on to this thing that we call a body is also the delusion that we call maya isnt it? You know this too! > > So firstly, before you proceed to what we do know know or cannot know - the brahman, or the supreme being (which we assume to be known through scriptures)- isnt it worth examining what we already know? the body, the mind and the material existence? > > Firstly, we have a mind represented notion of consciousness, which we call the jiva, which is essentially a part of the nature of the whole that is. Through this mind represented notion of consciousness we give birth to perception through senses that we call thought. Thought that is hence born becomes memory, and memory becomes the source of further thuoghts. > Through this constant perception of reality through thought comes attachment that yuo call bondage. Do you see how all the questions you asked can at once be addressed from this being itself that you can observe? Except of course for accounting for bhagavan and elucidating the nature of origin of universe itself - which no matter what yuo do will always remain a speculation. > > I will respond to the other mail, later since I am in a net center and out of money beyond one hour > > Thanks for giving me this opportunity to learn and share too > > > --- On Wed, 5/13/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote: > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > sacred-objects > Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 2:15 AM > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sriman, > > > > All right! You must have spent many years as brahmachari in ashram of Guru learning Vedanta in some sampradaya to be such a Jnani. > > > > !) How do you account for your material bondage? - Is Maya greater than you (Brahman)? > > > > 2) How do you account for Maya? - where from has it arisen? > > > > 3) How do you account for Bhagavan? - or are you a nihilistic atheist? > > > > 4) What has created Maya? Brahma? You? - is there no intelligent design in Maya? > > > > 5) Matter (jada) or Maya is composed of material atoms, what is the Jiva (Brahman) composed of? > > > > 6) Where has Jada come from? Who controls? Why are YOU and I in bondage of Maya? > > > > --->Here is my position summed up by Bhaktivinode as Dos Mula: > > > > Dos Mula > > By Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura (Kamala Manjari) > > Translation by Richard Shaw Brown > > > > The TEN ROOTS are... > > > > 1. Vedic Authority (which proclaims... ) > > > > 2. The highest tattva (reality) is Hari; > > > > 3. He possesses all potencies; > > > > 4. He is an ocean of (transcendental) tastes; > > > > 5. The jiva-souls are His separate particles; > > > > 6. They (the jiva-souls) can become bound up by material energy; > > > > 7. And they (the jiva-souls) can also become freed from material bondage; > > > > 8. Everything is a manifestation of Hari which is both different and non different (from Him); > > > > 9. The spiritual method is pure bhakti (devoid of karma-misra & jnana-misra) ; > > > > 10. The spiritual goal is divine love only... > > > > These (10 roots) are the direct teachings (advice) of Gaura Chandra Himself. " > > > > ---Rather than give my ideas I better quote the Mahajanas. So I'll post each verse of Brahma Sutra with Sri Bhashya of Ramanujacharya, and you can post Shankar-Bhashya likewise. Then it is not our speculations. > > > > Y/s, > > R- > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > You can call me anything you please. On the contrary, I consider everyone of us here as quacks. Even the most so called vedantic experts. > > > > > > The same Sankara who wrote the brahma sutra bhasyas also compiled the bhaja govindam. Duality is true till the experience of non-duality manifests, the question is can yuo ever will this experience to manifest irrespective of how rigerously you pursue any path. My answer from my experience so far is " NO " . And I stand by it. > > > > > > I will wait for your discourse on vedanta. I dont have the fear of being wrong, because even if I am wrong, I will be honest, in that I will only talk of my personal experience IRRESPECTIVE of the number of sutras you bring forward. If you have moved past the first sutra - the in all likelyhood you have understood nothing of it and are searching for some other sutra to understand it. One can at most be a great thinker or a parrot of a great thinker, I refuse to be both. > > > > > > Quite simply put, You and I have the same equipment that a Ramanuja or > > > a Sankara has in the the pursuit of whatever you choose to name it. All > > > one has to do is look inward and see what one is looking at. All I am > > > also saying is, by accepting the acharyas to be absolute, you are > > > killing the possibility of knowing what they are actually talking > > > about. I will leave the creation of ashrams and followers to such > > > illustrious people as yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth unfortunately is much simpler than you make it to be! Yet all we can have is a hint of its essence. the hint is contained in the first sutra " Athatho Brahma jigyasa " . I rest my case till later, waiting to learn something that you claim to know, and apparently you theorize I dont know. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Surya. > > > > > > PS - At sacredtexts archive link that I posted earlier, you will find the entire commentary on brahma sutras posted. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 5/12/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote: > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > sacred-objects > > > Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 5:36 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, your conclusion is at odds with all previous acharyas. Are you an Acharya, better than Ramanuja, Madhva, Chaitanya, etc? Are you and your mind superior to such seers? > > > > > > If you think so then what is your Sampradaya? How many followers do you have? If you have not studied Brahma Sutras then just admit it. I think you know little about philosophy and have never made a study. Are you a religious scholar? I think you are a quack. > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is some varied information on Vedanta Sutras from WWWiki... > > > > > > > > > > > > Many commentaries have been written on this text, the earliest extant one being the one by Adi Shankara. His commentary set forth the non-dualistic (Advaita) interpretation of the Vedanta, and was commented upon by Vacaspati and Padmapada. These sub-commentaries, in turn, inspired other derivative texts in the Advaita school. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramanuja also wrote a commentary on the Brahma sutra, called Sri Bhasya, which lays the foundations of the Vishishtadvaita tradition. In this, he firmly refutes the Advaita view as proposed by Adi Shankara in his commentary. > > > > > > > > > > > > Other commentators on the Brahma Sutras, belonging to other schools of Vedanta, include Bhaskara, Yadavapraksha, Keshava, Nilakanta, Madhvacharya, Vallabha, Vijnanabhiksu, Nimbarka, and Baladeva Vidyashana. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Brahma Sutras attempt to reconcile the seemingly contradictory and diverse statements of the various Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita;, by placing each teaching in a doctrinal context. The word sutra means thread, and the Brahma sutras literally stitch together the various Vedanta teachings into a logical and self-consistent whole. > > > > > > However, the Brahma Sutras are so terse that not only are they capable of being interpreted in multiple ways, but they are often incomprehensible without the aid of the various commentaries handed down in the main schools of Vedanta thought. > > > > > > The Vedanta Sutras supply ample evidence that at a very early time, i.e. a period before their own final composition, there were differences of opinion among the various interpreters of the Vedanta. > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing but brahman, what obstructs this is thought that is operational and that clings to existence to survive. Thought Justifies itself. From the thought come the questions, through the questions thought hopes to alter itself to help it survive. It obstructs the flow of life, it creates the illusion that body is - it creates the illusion that the world is, it feels seperate from the reality that it is a part of. This division is what we call duality, an illusion - the act we call which is that of maya - thought clings to duality because end of duality threatens its survival - from duality comes the need to measure, from the need to measure comes the sense of time, from time comes memory, from repeated memory comes karma, from karma comes samskaras, from samskaras come the possibility of action, from action thought solidifies into existence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 5/11/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > Monday, May 11, 2009, 9:19 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to hold a discussion on Vedanta Sutra. But you have said of yourself, " Again, I am speculating here, but such is the nature of thought. " We are not discussing " thought " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not know Vedanta Sutra then please don't speculate. If you are ignorant of Vedanta Sutra then be honest and say so... Have you EVER read Vedanta Sutras? If so, stick to the subject; if not then don't argue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My statement: " Here " YOU " refers to everyone of us " . Do I need to explain further? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is how the mind operates, it is the same for everyone of us. We are all essentially parrots, yet this is very difficult to accept. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is much simpler than we are willing to accept. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me elaborate a bit on what you said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " BUT, I am sat-chit-ananda Brahman as Jivatma, and even when sleeping I am alive. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we say that the bed is not alive - the entire existence is throbbing with life, the only difference we have as individuals is that thought is operational in us! The entire being is sustained to let the thought live - isnt it? It is the thought that is differentiating you from your bed and telling you that you are alive and not the bed. In reality, if " Aham brahmasmi " manifests, YOU HAVE TO BE YOUR BED also. Again, I am speculating here, but such is the nature of thought.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Who is the cause of Brahma (Chaturmukh) , or Brahman?? Bhahmins in Kali Yuga are based on " guna " and " karma " NOT janma. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we experience Brahma or Brahman when the very there is no escape from the very veil that is covering it? You create guna forcing differentiation between what are essentially the same! " action " " inaction " are esentially the same in essence. Can you understand that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Thinking by the JIvatma through the " mana-deha " is covered by Maya. There are 3 distinct and different tattvas in Brahman: Bhagavan-Paramatma, Jivatma, Maya. The relationships of these must be understood.. . " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have we understood what each of these tatvas actually are other than their names? what do we mean by understanding the relationships of these if we dont understand the words themselves experientially? Yet swami's after swami's - guru's after guru's tell you the same things! They quote scriptures, scriptures are the outcome of the experience of the person who experienced them, they are corrupted representations of the original experience. How can we own them? On the contrary except for using them in the context of the world, its easy to reject them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Who has created this reality? Well, it was never created. It is eternal. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True, but even this is mere speculation if you reject the scriptures.. Isnt it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " In Brahma-jyoti exist eternal Vaikuntha. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know this outside the scriptures that tell you this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Only the Maya-shakti is manifesting brahmandas and samsara according to time, " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beautiful, and its easy to see this if at all you follow that the maya is operational only in your waking and dreaming state. It vanishes in samadhi - yet the samadhi that ends to bring thought back to operation is incomplete - hence there is a hope to be a jivana mukta - where samadhi continues in waking state - yet the existence of such a state is mere speculation for you and me who have not been in it to begin with. Again, we are " TOLD " that Janka, suka etc have been in that state. Time comes because of the need of thought to measure, take this need away then time vanishes too. Yet - what do we know about this process experientially? Nothing! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " and as impregnated with the badha Jivas...these take place in time, a material tattva, and Paramatma is responsible. We the Jivatatma can choose material OR spiritual. Now we are in material (prakriti). " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are not qualified to talk about anything but the material tattva - isnt it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not here to prove that you have no spiritual understanding of vedanta. Perhaps you do, perhaps there is much I can learn. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had written something for my friend and he has put it on the blog, I put the link of the same here to put forward my understanding of nature: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://drishtikone. com/?q=blog/ art-thinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If " Aham brahmasmi " can be true, then a man contains within himself everything that he needs to know everything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sacred Group Group <sacred-objects> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, May 10, 2009 11:35:13 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW: We are discussing Vedanta.. can you prove that I don't have spiritual understanding of Vedanta? Are you able to prove your accusation? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Brown's iPhone > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.richardshawbrow n.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 10, 2009, at 12:13 PM, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You just recounting what you have read, none of this can be your own experience. Hence, none of this is anything but your " Memory " of what you have read. You cannot know what any of it actually means, less own the meaning of what it stands for. Here " YOU " refers to everyone of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you are asleep, the thought that you are different from your bed does not arise - when you wake yuo tell yuorself that yuo were always seperate from the bed because thought is fully operational there in that state of waking. This is no different from what happens in a state of samadhi. We make a distinction between deep sleep and turiya or samadhi by saying, sleep is the state where distinction ceases but it corresponds to Tamasic - whereas in turiya it corresponds to saatvic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The distinction also arises, which says that " sat " " chit " " ananda " are the attributes and are seperate. However, I say that minus the thought, there is only one entity that represents all three of them - you can call it sat or chit or ananda. Ananda is end of suffering that the thought introduces because of the conflict. It is not sensual joy you experience through the medium of brain. If you have experienced it - it is not Ananda - it is a corrupted sensual version of Ananda. Similarly if you have experienced it - it is neither sat nor chit - unless you call existence as sat, this is also brahma gyana. isnt it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, May 9, 2009 4:45:48 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When YOU sleep maybe you're no different from your bed, but not me! My bed is jada, which is a-chit, a-sat, and nirananda, and is lifeless, BUT, I am sat-chit-ananda Brahman as Jivatma, and even when sleeping I am alive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is the cause of Brahma (Chaturmukh) , or Brahman?? Bhahmins in Kali Yuga are based on " guna " and " karma " NOT janma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thinking by the JIvatma through the " mana-deha " is covered by Maya.. There are 3 distinct and different tattvas in Brahman: Bhagavan-Paramatma, Jivatma, Maya. The relationships of these must be understood.. . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who has created this reality? Well, it was never created. It is eternal. In Brahma-jyoti exist eternal Vaikuntha. Only the Maya-shakti is manifesting brahmandas and samsara according to time, and as impregnated with the badha Jivas...these take place in time, a material tattva, and Paramatma is responsible. We the Jivatatma can choose material OR spiritual. Now we are in material (prakriti). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown, PG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Musician, Designer, Gemologist & Author > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.richardshawbrow n.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 9/5/09, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, 9 May, 2009, 9:02 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you sleep on your bed - you are no different from your bed. when you wake up, you see the bed as different from yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the thought that is the distinction and the maya. isnt cast system a thought too? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who can be the cause of brahma? assigning a cause would mean - that which is the cause itself is brahma. Isnt it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 108 SRIMAD BHAKTI VEDENTA SYAMASUNDARA SARASWATI DASA <syamasundara100008 @ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, May 9, 2009 12:40:58 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is the cause of Brahma...... ...!!!!!! !???????? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are all Brahmin..... ......... .!!!!!!.. ......... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do we have a caste system in.......... . ..Kali Yuga........ ....??????? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are ALL " Foot Soldiers " ... ........motivate d by.........DESIRE.. ..........!! !!!!!!!!! ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Syama....... . ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 5/8/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, May 8, 2009, 1:31 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, if a light is covered it shines itself none-the-less. So everything is Brahman. Aham Bhahmasmi - I am Brahman, tat-tvamasi - you are Brahman, Fine! So now we have solved the problems of life by this conclusion?? ? Are we no longer faced with Tritapa??? No more birth, old age, disease, or death, rebirth? So simply knowing I am Brahman is enough? If so, why are there MORE sutras? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the discussion. You are a philosopher. .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My point is that all the three states are actually the same, thought is operational even in deep sleep, the proof is that the breath is not stoping there. The only salvage is that the question of brahman perhaps ceases in deep sleep, and you become the bed you are on and everything else in existence.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question is also - what is not brahman - if there is something that is not brahman then we are attributing two entities of existence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, May 6, 2009 3:04:17 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The answer is 1) Wakefulness, 2) Dream state, 3) Deep Sleep. But the Subject is Brahman... What IS Brahman? That's the point... Y/s, R- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually there are many ways to answer that question, but that would be sans the point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sacred Group Group <sacred-objects> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, May 6, 2009 12:00:22 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who sleeps in the day??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Rick Brown's iPhone > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.richardshawbrow n.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 5, 2009, at 21:34, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What happens every day when you sleep? Does this thought as to if its established or not occur? In other words, what is causing the totality to vanish after sleep? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday, May 4, 2009 11:10:15 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we justify " Aham bramhasmi " ? = I AM BRAHMAN (spiritual) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we justify " Tat-tvamasi " --- YOU ARE BRAHMAN (spiritual) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the Subject is Brahman = spiritual totality. Is that established? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have to ask ourselves, what is the actual object of the vedanta sutra bhasyas? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have often been enamored by the amount of hard work put into this website: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://sacred- / texts.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure how many of you have seen this site, but it truly is a treasure trove. Please promote it to all people who might have an inclination to either spirituality or religion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In any case, how can we justify " Aham bramhasmi " ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, May 3, 2009 3:43:24 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Veda=awareness, anta=end (highest) truth of Brahman is, therefore, at question... " Athato brahmajijnasa " VDS#1, So subject is " Brahman. " From the onset this is established. And from hereafter the agreement ends.. But it is the highest subject matter of discussion by swan like men of great merit who come in contact with our discussions of the great Brahma Sutras by " sukriti " and they/we will each go deeper as a result. Y/s, R- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, 108 SRIMAD BHAKTI VEDENTA SYAMASUNDARA SARASWATI DASA <syamasundara100008 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am learning.... . ......... ....!!!!! !!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I " read " ...... . .......all the time!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The " question " is.......... .....???? ????????. ........Do I understand.. ......... ..????? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I .......... " READ " ........... .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ONE MAN'S OPINION..... ......... ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fruit of Vedanta Sutra....... is SRI Mad....Bhagavatam.. ............. !!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Syama....... .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 5/2/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedanta Sutras > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, May 2, 2009, 4:50 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow!!! The growing of the WWW has made the Vedic knowledge available in a Google search. Still, how many members of this group have read the entire Vedana Sutra (Brahma-sutras) by Vyasa, upon which every Sampradaya in Hinduism, from advaitavaad to dvaitavaad, is based? How many here, besides me, have read it??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. ...eh!? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > font-weight: bold; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span..yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; } #ygrp-mlmsg a { color: #1E66AE; } div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } --> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your preferred Email name! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New Email addresses available on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hurry before someone else does! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your new Email address! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Radhe Radhe............ "Self-realization"............ We are all evolving to it................"Self-realization"............ It's the nativity...............Our Janma-Kundali.............!!!!!!!!! What's the influence........on the nativity................??? "Gochara-Phalam"............ Syama...............--- On Thu, 5/14/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote: Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussionsacred-objects Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 5:13 AM Well, sorry about your objections. If you reject Vedic authority then you are NOT Hindu. Again I ask you to answers these questions in reference to Vedanta Sutra...!) How do you account for your material bondage? - Is Maya greater than you(Brahman)?2) How do you account for Maya? - where from has it arisen?3) How do you account for Bhagavan? - or are you a nihilistic atheist?4) What has created Maya? Brahma? You? - is there intelligent design in Maya?5) Matter (jada) or Maya is composed of material atoms, what is the Jiva(Brahman) composed of?6) Where has Jada come from? Who controls? Why are YOU and I in bondage of Maya?Please answer the above...Y/s,Richardsacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote:>> No, I dont claim any such process or knowledge. > > As far as I am concerned - "Tapas, swadhyaya, mahad pada rajobhishekam" will continue irrespective of time or state. Ultimately brahmacharya is an internal state of being.> > Coming to your questions. I have a few objections. We have by default accepted the scriptures to be absolute - I am not convinced of this. However the sutras might contain the highest essence, but the same cannot be said of their interpretation because the interpretation is tainted by memory - which is why we have so many interpretations apparently contradicting, where in reality there is no contradiction - only contextual understanding. If the objective reality is one - there cannot be multiple interpretations of it - only contextual understanding of it that might seem at conflict. Isnt it?> > First can you understand that the body has no seperate existence outside the memory of it? The material constituents are a reality - however, what we call the body does not exist!> > Let me illustrate, you wear a ring on your finger, overtime the memory accepts it as a part of its body. remove the ring, and the memory that registered the ring feels something is missing in the body. Eventually it adapts. It is the same with the limbs. loss of a limb does not compromise the "I" consciousness, yet the memory of the limb feels compromised. Hence, firstly, what constitutes your body is purely the function of your memory, yet holding on to this thing that we call a body is also the delusion that we call maya isnt it? You know this too!> > So firstly, before you proceed to what we do know know or cannot know - the brahman, or the supreme being (which we assume to be known through scriptures)- isnt it worth examining what we already know? the body, the mind and the material existence? > > Firstly, we have a mind represented notion of consciousness, which we call the jiva, which is essentially a part of the nature of the whole that is. Through this mind represented notion of consciousness we give birth to perception through senses that we call thought. Thought that is hence born becomes memory, and memory becomes the source of further thuoghts. > Through this constant perception of reality through thought comes attachment that yuo call bondage. Do you see how all the questions you asked can at once be addressed from this being itself that you can observe? Except of course for accounting for bhagavan and elucidating the nature of origin of universe itself - which no matter what yuo do will always remain a speculation.> > I will respond to the other mail, later since I am in a net center and out of money beyond one hour > > Thanks for giving me this opportunity to learn and share too > > > --- On Wed, 5/13/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote:> > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66> Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion> sacred-objects> Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 2:15 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sriman,> > > > All right! You must have spent many years as brahmachari in ashram of Guru learning Vedanta in some sampradaya to be such a Jnani.> > > > !) How do you account for your material bondage? - Is Maya greater than you (Brahman)?> > > > 2) How do you account for Maya? - where from has it arisen?> > > > 3) How do you account for Bhagavan? - or are you a nihilistic atheist?> > > > 4) What has created Maya? Brahma? You? - is there no intelligent design in Maya?> > > > 5) Matter (jada) or Maya is composed of material atoms, what is the Jiva (Brahman) composed of?> > > > 6) Where has Jada come from? Who controls? Why are YOU and I in bondage of Maya?> > > > --->Here is my position summed up by Bhaktivinode as Dos Mula:> > > > Dos Mula> > By Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura (Kamala Manjari)> > Translation by Richard Shaw Brown> > > > The TEN ROOTS are...> > > > 1. Vedic Authority (which proclaims... )> > > > 2. The highest tattva (reality) is Hari;> > > > 3. He possesses all potencies;> > > > 4. He is an ocean of (transcendental) tastes;> > > > 5. The jiva-souls are His separate particles;> > > > 6. They (the jiva-souls) can become bound up by material energy;> > > > 7. And they (the jiva-souls) can also become freed from material bondage;> > > > 8. Everything is a manifestation of Hari which is both different and non different (from Him);> > > > 9. The spiritual method is pure bhakti (devoid of karma-misra & jnana-misra) ;> > > > 10. The spiritual goal is divine love only...> > > > These (10 roots) are the direct teachings (advice) of Gaura Chandra Himself."> > > > ---Rather than give my ideas I better quote the Mahajanas. So I'll post each verse of Brahma Sutra with Sri Bhashya of Ramanujacharya, and you can post Shankar-Bhashya likewise. Then it is not our speculations.> > > > Y/s,> > R-> > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote:> > >> > > You can call me anything you please. On the contrary, I consider everyone of us here as quacks. Even the most so called vedantic experts. > > > > > > The same Sankara who wrote the brahma sutra bhasyas also compiled the bhaja govindam. Duality is true till the experience of non-duality manifests, the question is can yuo ever will this experience to manifest irrespective of how rigerously you pursue any path. My answer from my experience so far is "NO". And I stand by it.> > > > > > I will wait for your discourse on vedanta. I dont have the fear of being wrong, because even if I am wrong, I will be honest, in that I will only talk of my personal experience IRRESPECTIVE of the number of sutras you bring forward. If you have moved past the first sutra - the in all likelyhood you have understood nothing of it and are searching for some other sutra to understand it. One can at most be a great thinker or a parrot of a great thinker, I refuse to be both. > > > > > > Quite simply put, You and I have the same equipment that a Ramanuja or> > > a Sankara has in the the pursuit of whatever you choose to name it. All> > > one has to do is look inward and see what one is looking at. All I am> > > also saying is, by accepting the acharyas to be absolute, you are> > > killing the possibility of knowing what they are actually talking> > > about. I will leave the creation of ashrams and followers to such> > > illustrious people as yourself.> > > > > > > > > > > > Truth unfortunately is much simpler than you make it to be! Yet all we can have is a hint of its essence. the hint is contained in the first sutra "Athatho Brahma jigyasa". I rest my case till later, waiting to learn something that you claim to know, and apparently you theorize I dont know. > > > > > > Regards,> > > Surya.> > > > > > PS - At sacredtexts archive link that I posted earlier, you will find the entire commentary on brahma sutras posted. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 5/12/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote:> > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@>> > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion> > > sacred-objects> > > Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 5:36 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, your conclusion is at odds with all previous acharyas. Are you an Acharya, better than Ramanuja, Madhva, Chaitanya, etc? Are you and your mind superior to such seers?> > > > > > If you think so then what is your Sampradaya? How many followers do you have? If you have not studied Brahma Sutras then just admit it. I think you know little about philosophy and have never made a study. Are you a religious scholar? I think you are a quack.> > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s,> > > > > > Richard> > > > > > > > > > > > Here is some varied information on Vedanta Sutras from WWWiki...> > > > > > > > > > > > Many commentaries have been written on this text, the earliest extant one being the one by Adi Shankara. His commentary set forth the non-dualistic (Advaita) interpretation of the Vedanta, and was commented upon by Vacaspati and Padmapada. These sub-commentaries, in turn, inspired other derivative texts in the Advaita school.> > > > > > > > > > > > Ramanuja also wrote a commentary on the Brahma sutra, called Sri Bhasya, which lays the foundations of the Vishishtadvaita tradition. In this, he firmly refutes the Advaita view as proposed by Adi Shankara in his commentary.> > > > > > > > > > > > Other commentators on the Brahma Sutras, belonging to other schools of Vedanta, include Bhaskara, Yadavapraksha, Keshava, Nilakanta, Madhvacharya, Vallabha, Vijnanabhiksu, Nimbarka, and Baladeva Vidyashana.> > > > > > > > > > > > The Brahma Sutras attempt to reconcile the seemingly contradictory and diverse statements of the various Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita;, by placing each teaching in a doctrinal context. The word sutra means thread, and the Brahma sutras literally stitch together the various Vedanta teachings into a logical and self-consistent whole.> > > > > > However, the Brahma Sutras are so terse that not only are they capable of being interpreted in multiple ways, but they are often incomprehensible without the aid of the various commentaries handed down in the main schools of Vedanta thought.> > > > > > The Vedanta Sutras supply ample evidence that at a very early time, i.e. a period before their own final composition, there were differences of opinion among the various interpreters of the Vedanta. > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > There is nothing but brahman, what obstructs this is thought that is operational and that clings to existence to survive. Thought Justifies itself. From the thought come the questions, through the questions thought hopes to alter itself to help it survive. It obstructs the flow of life, it creates the illusion that body is - it creates the illusion that the world is, it feels seperate from the reality that it is a part of. This division is what we call duality, an illusion - the act we call which is that of maya - thought clings to duality because end of duality threatens its survival - from duality comes the need to measure, from the need to measure comes the sense of time, from time comes memory, from repeated memory comes karma, from karma comes samskaras, from samskaras come the possibility of action, from action thought solidifies into existence.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 5/11/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@>> > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion> > > > > > > sacred-objects> > > > > > > Monday, May 11, 2009, 9:19 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to hold a discussion on Vedanta Sutra. But you have said of yourself, "Again, I am speculating here, but such is the nature of thought." We are not discussing "thought".> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not know Vedanta Sutra then please don't speculate. If you are ignorant of Vedanta Sutra then be honest and say so... Have you EVER read Vedanta Sutras? If so, stick to the subject; if not then don't argue.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My statement: "Here "YOU" refers to everyone of us". Do I need to explain further?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is how the mind operates, it is the same for everyone of us. We are all essentially parrots, yet this is very difficult to accept.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is much simpler than we are willing to accept.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me elaborate a bit on what you said:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " BUT, I am sat-chit-ananda Brahman as Jivatma, and even when sleeping I am alive."> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we say that the bed is not alive - the entire existence is throbbing with life, the only difference we have as individuals is that thought is operational in us! The entire being is sustained to let the thought live - isnt it? It is the thought that is differentiating you from your bed and telling you that you are alive and not the bed. In reality, if "Aham brahmasmi" manifests, YOU HAVE TO BE YOUR BED also. Again, I am speculating here, but such is the nature of thought.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Who is the cause of Brahma (Chaturmukh) , or Brahman?? Bhahmins in Kali Yuga are based on "guna" and "karma" NOT janma."> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we experience Brahma or Brahman when the very there is no escape from the very veil that is covering it? You create guna forcing differentiation between what are essentially the same! "actioninaction" are esentially the same in essence. Can you understand that?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Thinking by the JIvatma through the "mana-deha" is covered by Maya. There are 3 distinct and different tattvas in Brahman: Bhagavan-Paramatma, Jivatma, Maya. The relationships of these must be understood.. ."> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have we understood what each of these tatvas actually are other than their names? what do we mean by understanding the relationships of these if we dont understand the words themselves experientially? Yet swami's after swami's - guru's after guru's tell you the same things! They quote scriptures, scriptures are the outcome of the experience of the person who experienced them, they are corrupted representations of the original experience. How can we own them? On the contrary except for using them in the context of the world, its easy to reject them.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Who has created this reality? Well, it was never created. It is eternal."> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True, but even this is mere speculation if you reject the scriptures.. Isnt it?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "In Brahma-jyoti exist eternal Vaikuntha."> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know this outside the scriptures that tell you this?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Only the Maya-shakti is manifesting brahmandas and samsara according to time,"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beautiful, and its easy to see this if at all you follow that the maya is operational only in your waking and dreaming state. It vanishes in samadhi - yet the samadhi that ends to bring thought back to operation is incomplete - hence there is a hope to be a jivana mukta - where samadhi continues in waking state - yet the existence of such a state is mere speculation for you and me who have not been in it to begin with. Again, we are "TOLD" that Janka, suka etc have been in that state. Time comes because of the need of thought to measure, take this need away then time vanishes too. Yet - what do we know about this process experientially? Nothing!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "and as impregnated with the badha Jivas...these take place in time, a material tattva, and Paramatma is responsible. We the Jivatatma can choose material OR spiritual. Now we are in material (prakriti)." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are not qualified to talk about anything but the material tattva - isnt it?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not here to prove that you have no spiritual understanding of vedanta. Perhaps you do, perhaps there is much I can learn. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had written something for my friend and he has put it on the blog, I put the link of the same here to put forward my understanding of nature:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://drishtikone. com/?q=blog/ art-thinking> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If "Aham brahmasmi" can be true, then a man contains within himself everything that he needs to know everything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Brown <rsbj66@>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sacred Group Group <sacred-objects>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, May 10, 2009 11:35:13 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW: We are discussing Vedanta.. can you prove that I don't have spiritual understanding of Vedanta? Are you able to prove your accusation?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Brown's iPhone> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.richardshawbrow n.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 10, 2009, at 12:13 PM, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You just recounting what you have read, none of this can be your own experience. Hence, none of this is anything but your "Memory" of what you have read. You cannot know what any of it actually means, less own the meaning of what it stands for. Here "YOU" refers to everyone of us.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you are asleep, the thought that you are different from your bed does not arise - when you wake yuo tell yuorself that yuo were always seperate from the bed because thought is fully operational there in that state of waking. This is no different from what happens in a state of samadhi. We make a distinction between deep sleep and turiya or samadhi by saying, sleep is the state where distinction ceases but it corresponds to Tamasic - whereas in turiya it corresponds to saatvic.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The distinction also arises, which says that "satchitananda" are the attributes and are seperate. However, I say that minus the thought, there is only one entity that represents all three of them - you can call it sat or chit or ananda. Ananda is end of suffering that the thought introduces because of the conflict. It is not sensual joy you experience through the medium of brain. If you have experienced it - it is not Ananda - it is a corrupted sensual version of Ananda. Similarly if you have experienced it - it is neither sat nor chit - unless you call existence as sat, this is also brahma gyana. isnt it?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, May 9, 2009 4:45:48 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When YOU sleep maybe you're no different from your bed, but not me! My bed is jada, which is a-chit, a-sat, and nirananda, and is lifeless, BUT, I am sat-chit-ananda Brahman as Jivatma, and even when sleeping I am alive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is the cause of Brahma (Chaturmukh) , or Brahman?? Bhahmins in Kali Yuga are based on "guna" and "karma" NOT janma.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thinking by the JIvatma through the "mana-deha" is covered by Maya.. There are 3 distinct and different tattvas in Brahman: Bhagavan-Paramatma, Jivatma, Maya. The relationships of these must be understood.. .> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who has created this reality? Well, it was never created. It is eternal. In Brahma-jyoti exist eternal Vaikuntha. Only the Maya-shakti is manifesting brahmandas and samsara according to time, and as impregnated with the badha Jivas...these take place in time, a material tattva, and Paramatma is responsible. We the Jivatatma can choose material OR spiritual. Now we are in material (prakriti).> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown, PG> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Musician, Designer, Gemologist & Author> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.richardshawbrow n.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 9/5/09, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, 9 May, 2009, 9:02 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you sleep on your bed - you are no different from your bed. when you wake up, you see the bed as different from yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the thought that is the distinction and the maya. isnt cast system a thought too?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who can be the cause of brahma? assigning a cause would mean - that which is the cause itself is brahma. Isnt it?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 108 SRIMAD BHAKTI VEDENTA SYAMASUNDARA SARASWATI DASA <syamasundara100008 @ >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, May 9, 2009 12:40:58 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is the cause of Brahma...... ...!!!!!! !????????> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are all Brahmin..... ......... .!!!!!!.. .........> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do we have a caste system in.......... . ..Kali Yuga........ ...???????> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are ALL "Foot Soldiers"... ........motivate d by.........DESIRE. . .........!! !!!!!!!!! !> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Syama....... . .....> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 5/8/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, May 8, 2009, 1:31 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, if a light is covered it shines itself none-the-less. So everything is Brahman. Aham Bhahmasmi - I am Brahman, tat-tvamasi - you are Brahman, Fine! So now we have solved the problems of life by this conclusion?? ? Are we no longer faced with Tritapa??? No more birth, old age, disease, or death, rebirth? So simply knowing I am Brahman is enough? If so, why are there MORE sutras?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the discussion. You are a philosopher. ..> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, Richard> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My point is that all the three states are actually the same, thought is operational even in deep sleep, the proof is that the breath is not stoping there. The only salvage is that the question of brahman perhaps ceases in deep sleep, and you become the bed you are on and everything else in existence.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question is also - what is not brahman - if there is something that is not brahman then we are attributing two entities of existence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, May 6, 2009 3:04:17 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The answer is 1) Wakefulness, 2) Dream state, 3) Deep Sleep. But the Subject is Brahman... What IS Brahman? That's the point... Y/s, R-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually there are many ways to answer that question, but that would be sans the point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Brown <rsbj66@>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sacred Group Group <sacred-objects>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, May 6, 2009 12:00:22 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who sleeps in the day???> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Rick Brown's iPhone > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.richardshawbrow n.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 5, 2009, at 21:34, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What happens every day when you sleep? Does this thought as to if its established or not occur? In other words, what is causing the totality to vanish after sleep?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday, May 4, 2009 11:10:15 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we justify "Aham bramhasmi"? = I AM BRAHMAN (spiritual)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we justify "Tat-tvamasi" --- YOU ARE BRAHMAN (spiritual)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the Subject is Brahman = spiritual totality. Is that established?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have to ask ourselves, what is the actual object of the vedanta sutra bhasyas?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have often been enamored by the amount of hard work put into this website:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://sacred- / texts.com/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure how many of you have seen this site, but it truly is a treasure trove. Please promote it to all people who might have an inclination to either spirituality or religion.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In any case, how can we justify "Aham bramhasmi"?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, May 3, 2009 3:43:24 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Veda=awareness, anta=end (highest) truth of Brahman is, therefore, at question... "Athato brahmajijnasa" VDS#1, So subject is "Brahman." From the onset this is established. And from hereafter the agreement ends.. But it is the highest subject matter of discussion by swan like men of great merit who come in contact with our discussions of the great Brahma Sutras by "sukriti" and they/we will each go deeper as a result. Y/s, R-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, 108 SRIMAD BHAKTI VEDENTA SYAMASUNDARA SARASWATI DASA <syamasundara100008 wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am learning.... . ......... ....!!!!! !!!!!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I "read"...... . .......all the time!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The "question" is.......... .....???? ????????. ........Do I understand.. ......... ..?????> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I .........."READ" ........... ....> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ONE MAN'S OPINION..... ......... ......> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fruit of Vedanta Sutra....... is SRI Mad....Bhagavatam. . ............ !!!!!!!!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Syama....... ....> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 5/2/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedanta Sutras> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, May 2, 2009, 4:50 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow!!! The growing of the WWW has made the Vedic knowledge available in a Google search. Still, how many members of this group have read the entire Vedana Sutra (Brahma-sutras) by Vyasa, upon which every Sampradaya in Hinduism, from advaitavaad to dvaitavaad, is based? How many here, besides me, have read it???> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. ...eh!?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > font-weight: bold; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span..yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; } #ygrp-mlmsg a { color: #1E66AE; } div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } --> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your preferred Email name! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. com.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New Email addresses available on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hurry before someone else does!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your new Email address! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 How can you own something that you can never experience except at a mental level? Or how can you accept scriptures as absolutes without experiencing what they actually stand for? Again, the division of Hindu or non-hindu is irrelevent to the enquiry into brahman. Does the division as a hindu belong to brahman or maya? 1) How do you account for your material bondage? - Is Maya greater than you (Brahman)? I have answered this in different ways. Perhaps you will understand what I mean if you can first answer this: Where is the maya and where is the brhaman? 2) How do you account for Maya? - where from has it arisen?No one can be sure of this. We do have a scriptural account and their interpretations which is what I object to be speculation. You can experientially never account for the source of maya, there is however a hope that you will be a part of that source eventually.3) How do you account for Bhagavan? - or are you a nihilistic atheist?Again, we cannot comprehend such answers without speculation. Pass times of Bhagavan are most beautifully described in various texts (sri subhodini comes to mind by vallabhacharya) - yet these are the experiences of the original seer, and stand alien to you and me. Tantra states that the universe is a play of Kali or kala, some even suggest Kali and Krishna are the same, how can you ever know? Is the world game played by the unmanifest wanting to experience the other? You tell me how do you know?I dont believe in chance, I can easily prove that chance does not exist, yet how can you claim to know the purpose? that should answer your second question. 4) What has created Maya? Brahma? You? - is there intelligent design in Maya? Perhaps you know? I can only experience my existence and see that it is a delusion - irrespective of scriptures, that tells me nothing of the source - you are seeking authority of such and such saint to be unquestionable and absolute - I call it a sensual/intellectual massage that leads nowhere. If chance is invalidated, intelligent design seems actual, but the question is rather of how this intelligent design plays out rather than its presence or absence! 5) Matter (jada) or Maya is composed of material atoms, what is the Jiva (Brahman) composed of? You tell me, how are you differentiating between consciousness, material existence and energy.. Ramana maharshi in upadesa sara has suggested that existence is consciousness, what do you say? WHERE IS THE MAYA in reality? 6) Where has Jada come from? Who controls? Why are YOU and I in bondage of Maya? Where and how is Maya operational? Lets establish that first.--- On Thu, 5/14/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote:Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussionsacred-objects Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 2:13 AM Well, sorry about your objections. If you reject Vedic authority then you are NOT Hindu. Again I ask you to answers these questions in reference to Vedanta Sutra... !) How do you account for your material bondage? - Is Maya greater than you (Brahman)? 2) How do you account for Maya? - where from has it arisen? 3) How do you account for Bhagavan? - or are you a nihilistic atheist? 4) What has created Maya? Brahma? You? - is there intelligent design in Maya? 5) Matter (jada) or Maya is composed of material atoms, what is the Jiva (Brahman) composed of? 6) Where has Jada come from? Who controls? Why are YOU and I in bondage of Maya? Please answer the above... Y/s, Richard sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote: > > No, I dont claim any such process or knowledge. > > As far as I am concerned - "Tapas, swadhyaya, mahad pada rajobhishekam" will continue irrespective of time or state. Ultimately brahmacharya is an internal state of being. > > Coming to your questions. I have a few objections. We have by default accepted the scriptures to be absolute - I am not convinced of this. However the sutras might contain the highest essence, but the same cannot be said of their interpretation because the interpretation is tainted by memory - which is why we have so many interpretations apparently contradicting, where in reality there is no contradiction - only contextual understanding. If the objective reality is one - there cannot be multiple interpretations of it - only contextual understanding of it that might seem at conflict. Isnt it? > > First can you understand that the body has no seperate existence outside the memory of it? The material constituents are a reality - however, what we call the body does not exist! > > Let me illustrate, you wear a ring on your finger, overtime the memory accepts it as a part of its body. remove the ring, and the memory that registered the ring feels something is missing in the body. Eventually it adapts. It is the same with the limbs. loss of a limb does not compromise the "I" consciousness, yet the memory of the limb feels compromised. Hence, firstly, what constitutes your body is purely the function of your memory, yet holding on to this thing that we call a body is also the delusion that we call maya isnt it? You know this too! > > So firstly, before you proceed to what we do know know or cannot know - the brahman, or the supreme being (which we assume to be known through scriptures)- isnt it worth examining what we already know? the body, the mind and the material existence? > > Firstly, we have a mind represented notion of consciousness, which we call the jiva, which is essentially a part of the nature of the whole that is. Through this mind represented notion of consciousness we give birth to perception through senses that we call thought. Thought that is hence born becomes memory, and memory becomes the source of further thuoghts. > Through this constant perception of reality through thought comes attachment that yuo call bondage. Do you see how all the questions you asked can at once be addressed from this being itself that you can observe? Except of course for accounting for bhagavan and elucidating the nature of origin of universe itself - which no matter what yuo do will always remain a speculation. > > I will respond to the other mail, later since I am in a net center and out of money beyond one hour > > Thanks for giving me this opportunity to learn and share too > > > --- On Wed, 5/13/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote: > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > sacred-objects > Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 2:15 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sriman, > > > > All right! You must have spent many years as brahmachari in ashram of Guru learning Vedanta in some sampradaya to be such a Jnani. > > > > !) How do you account for your material bondage? - Is Maya greater than you (Brahman)? > > > > 2) How do you account for Maya? - where from has it arisen? > > > > 3) How do you account for Bhagavan? - or are you a nihilistic atheist? > > > > 4) What has created Maya? Brahma? You? - is there no intelligent design in Maya? > > > > 5) Matter (jada) or Maya is composed of material atoms, what is the Jiva (Brahman) composed of? > > > > 6) Where has Jada come from? Who controls? Why are YOU and I in bondage of Maya? > > > > --->Here is my position summed up by Bhaktivinode as Dos Mula: > > > > Dos Mula > > By Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura (Kamala Manjari) > > Translation by Richard Shaw Brown > > > > The TEN ROOTS are... > > > > 1. Vedic Authority (which proclaims... ) > > > > 2. The highest tattva (reality) is Hari; > > > > 3. He possesses all potencies; > > > > 4. He is an ocean of (transcendental) tastes; > > > > 5. The jiva-souls are His separate particles; > > > > 6. They (the jiva-souls) can become bound up by material energy; > > > > 7. And they (the jiva-souls) can also become freed from material bondage; > > > > 8. Everything is a manifestation of Hari which is both different and non different (from Him); > > > > 9. The spiritual method is pure bhakti (devoid of karma-misra & jnana-misra) ; > > > > 10. The spiritual goal is divine love only... > > > > These (10 roots) are the direct teachings (advice) of Gaura Chandra Himself." > > > > ---Rather than give my ideas I better quote the Mahajanas. So I'll post each verse of Brahma Sutra with Sri Bhashya of Ramanujacharya, and you can post Shankar-Bhashya likewise. Then it is not our speculations. > > > > Y/s, > > R- > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > You can call me anything you please. On the contrary, I consider everyone of us here as quacks. Even the most so called vedantic experts. > > > > > > The same Sankara who wrote the brahma sutra bhasyas also compiled the bhaja govindam. Duality is true till the experience of non-duality manifests, the question is can yuo ever will this experience to manifest irrespective of how rigerously you pursue any path. My answer from my experience so far is "NO". And I stand by it. > > > > > > I will wait for your discourse on vedanta. I dont have the fear of being wrong, because even if I am wrong, I will be honest, in that I will only talk of my personal experience IRRESPECTIVE of the number of sutras you bring forward. If you have moved past the first sutra - the in all likelyhood you have understood nothing of it and are searching for some other sutra to understand it. One can at most be a great thinker or a parrot of a great thinker, I refuse to be both. > > > > > > Quite simply put, You and I have the same equipment that a Ramanuja or > > > a Sankara has in the the pursuit of whatever you choose to name it. All > > > one has to do is look inward and see what one is looking at. All I am > > > also saying is, by accepting the acharyas to be absolute, you are > > > killing the possibility of knowing what they are actually talking > > > about. I will leave the creation of ashrams and followers to such > > > illustrious people as yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth unfortunately is much simpler than you make it to be! Yet all we can have is a hint of its essence. the hint is contained in the first sutra "Athatho Brahma jigyasa". I rest my case till later, waiting to learn something that you claim to know, and apparently you theorize I dont know. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Surya. > > > > > > PS - At sacredtexts archive link that I posted earlier, you will find the entire commentary on brahma sutras posted. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 5/12/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote: > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > sacred-objects > > > Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 5:36 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, your conclusion is at odds with all previous acharyas. Are you an Acharya, better than Ramanuja, Madhva, Chaitanya, etc? Are you and your mind superior to such seers? > > > > > > If you think so then what is your Sampradaya? How many followers do you have? If you have not studied Brahma Sutras then just admit it. I think you know little about philosophy and have never made a study. Are you a religious scholar? I think you are a quack. > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is some varied information on Vedanta Sutras from WWWiki... > > > > > > > > > > > > Many commentaries have been written on this text, the earliest extant one being the one by Adi Shankara. His commentary set forth the non-dualistic (Advaita) interpretation of the Vedanta, and was commented upon by Vacaspati and Padmapada. These sub-commentaries, in turn, inspired other derivative texts in the Advaita school. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramanuja also wrote a commentary on the Brahma sutra, called Sri Bhasya, which lays the foundations of the Vishishtadvaita tradition. In this, he firmly refutes the Advaita view as proposed by Adi Shankara in his commentary. > > > > > > > > > > > > Other commentators on the Brahma Sutras, belonging to other schools of Vedanta, include Bhaskara, Yadavapraksha, Keshava, Nilakanta, Madhvacharya, Vallabha, Vijnanabhiksu, Nimbarka, and Baladeva Vidyashana. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Brahma Sutras attempt to reconcile the seemingly contradictory and diverse statements of the various Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita;, by placing each teaching in a doctrinal context. The word sutra means thread, and the Brahma sutras literally stitch together the various Vedanta teachings into a logical and self-consistent whole. > > > > > > However, the Brahma Sutras are so terse that not only are they capable of being interpreted in multiple ways, but they are often incomprehensible without the aid of the various commentaries handed down in the main schools of Vedanta thought. > > > > > > The Vedanta Sutras supply ample evidence that at a very early time, i.e. a period before their own final composition, there were differences of opinion among the various interpreters of the Vedanta. > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing but brahman, what obstructs this is thought that is operational and that clings to existence to survive. Thought Justifies itself. From the thought come the questions, through the questions thought hopes to alter itself to help it survive. It obstructs the flow of life, it creates the illusion that body is - it creates the illusion that the world is, it feels seperate from the reality that it is a part of.. This division is what we call duality, an illusion - the act we call which is that of maya - thought clings to duality because end of duality threatens its survival - from duality comes the need to measure, from the need to measure comes the sense of time, from time comes memory, from repeated memory comes karma, from karma comes samskaras, from samskaras come the possibility of action, from action thought solidifies into existence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 5/11/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > Monday, May 11, 2009, 9:19 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to hold a discussion on Vedanta Sutra. But you have said of yourself, "Again, I am speculating here, but such is the nature of thought." We are not discussing "thought". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not know Vedanta Sutra then please don't speculate. If you are ignorant of Vedanta Sutra then be honest and say so... Have you EVER read Vedanta Sutras? If so, stick to the subject; if not then don't argue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My statement: "Here "YOU" refers to everyone of us". Do I need to explain further? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is how the mind operates, it is the same for everyone of us. We are all essentially parrots, yet this is very difficult to accept. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is much simpler than we are willing to accept. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me elaborate a bit on what you said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " BUT, I am sat-chit-ananda Brahman as Jivatma, and even when sleeping I am alive." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we say that the bed is not alive - the entire existence is throbbing with life, the only difference we have as individuals is that thought is operational in us! The entire being is sustained to let the thought live - isnt it? It is the thought that is differentiating you from your bed and telling you that you are alive and not the bed. In reality, if "Aham brahmasmi" manifests, YOU HAVE TO BE YOUR BED also. Again, I am speculating here, but such is the nature of thought.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Who is the cause of Brahma (Chaturmukh) , or Brahman?? Bhahmins in Kali Yuga are based on "guna" and "karma" NOT janma." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we experience Brahma or Brahman when the very there is no escape from the very veil that is covering it? You create guna forcing differentiation between what are essentially the same! "actioninaction" are esentially the same in essence. Can you understand that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Thinking by the JIvatma through the "mana-deha" is covered by Maya. There are 3 distinct and different tattvas in Brahman: Bhagavan-Paramatma, Jivatma, Maya. The relationships of these must be understood.. ." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have we understood what each of these tatvas actually are other than their names? what do we mean by understanding the relationships of these if we dont understand the words themselves experientially? Yet swami's after swami's - guru's after guru's tell you the same things! They quote scriptures, scriptures are the outcome of the experience of the person who experienced them, they are corrupted representations of the original experience. How can we own them? On the contrary except for using them in the context of the world, its easy to reject them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Who has created this reality? Well, it was never created. It is eternal." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True, but even this is mere speculation if you reject the scriptures.. Isnt it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "In Brahma-jyoti exist eternal Vaikuntha." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know this outside the scriptures that tell you this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Only the Maya-shakti is manifesting brahmandas and samsara according to time," > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beautiful, and its easy to see this if at all you follow that the maya is operational only in your waking and dreaming state. It vanishes in samadhi - yet the samadhi that ends to bring thought back to operation is incomplete - hence there is a hope to be a jivana mukta - where samadhi continues in waking state - yet the existence of such a state is mere speculation for you and me who have not been in it to begin with. Again, we are "TOLD" that Janka, suka etc have been in that state. Time comes because of the need of thought to measure, take this need away then time vanishes too. Yet - what do we know about this process experientially? Nothing! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "and as impregnated with the badha Jivas...these take place in time, a material tattva, and Paramatma is responsible. We the Jivatatma can choose material OR spiritual. Now we are in material (prakriti)." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are not qualified to talk about anything but the material tattva - isnt it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not here to prove that you have no spiritual understanding of vedanta. Perhaps you do, perhaps there is much I can learn. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had written something for my friend and he has put it on the blog, I put the link of the same here to put forward my understanding of nature: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://drishtikone. com/?q=blog/ art-thinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If "Aham brahmasmi" can be true, then a man contains within himself everything that he needs to know everything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sacred Group Group <sacred-objects> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, May 10, 2009 11:35:13 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW: We are discussing Vedanta.. can you prove that I don't have spiritual understanding of Vedanta? Are you able to prove your accusation? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Brown's iPhone > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.richardshawbrow n.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 10, 2009, at 12:13 PM, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You just recounting what you have read, none of this can be your own experience. Hence, none of this is anything but your "Memory" of what you have read. You cannot know what any of it actually means, less own the meaning of what it stands for. Here "YOU" refers to everyone of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you are asleep, the thought that you are different from your bed does not arise - when you wake yuo tell yuorself that yuo were always seperate from the bed because thought is fully operational there in that state of waking. This is no different from what happens in a state of samadhi. We make a distinction between deep sleep and turiya or samadhi by saying, sleep is the state where distinction ceases but it corresponds to Tamasic - whereas in turiya it corresponds to saatvic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The distinction also arises, which says that "satchitananda" are the attributes and are seperate. However, I say that minus the thought, there is only one entity that represents all three of them - you can call it sat or chit or ananda. Ananda is end of suffering that the thought introduces because of the conflict. It is not sensual joy you experience through the medium of brain. If you have experienced it - it is not Ananda - it is a corrupted sensual version of Ananda. Similarly if you have experienced it - it is neither sat nor chit - unless you call existence as sat, this is also brahma gyana. isnt it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, May 9, 2009 4:45:48 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When YOU sleep maybe you're no different from your bed, but not me! My bed is jada, which is a-chit, a-sat, and nirananda, and is lifeless, BUT, I am sat-chit-ananda Brahman as Jivatma, and even when sleeping I am alive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is the cause of Brahma (Chaturmukh) , or Brahman?? Bhahmins in Kali Yuga are based on "guna" and "karma" NOT janma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thinking by the JIvatma through the "mana-deha" is covered by Maya.. There are 3 distinct and different tattvas in Brahman: Bhagavan-Paramatma, Jivatma, Maya. The relationships of these must be understood.. . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who has created this reality? Well, it was never created. It is eternal. In Brahma-jyoti exist eternal Vaikuntha. Only the Maya-shakti is manifesting brahmandas and samsara according to time, and as impregnated with the badha Jivas...these take place in time, a material tattva, and Paramatma is responsible. We the Jivatatma can choose material OR spiritual. Now we are in material (prakriti). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown, PG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Musician, Designer, Gemologist & Author > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.richardshawbrow n.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 9/5/09, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects@ .. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, 9 May, 2009, 9:02 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you sleep on your bed - you are no different from your bed. when you wake up, you see the bed as different from yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the thought that is the distinction and the maya. isnt cast system a thought too? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who can be the cause of brahma? assigning a cause would mean - that which is the cause itself is brahma. Isnt it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 108 SRIMAD BHAKTI VEDENTA SYAMASUNDARA SARASWATI DASA <syamasundara100008 @ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, May 9, 2009 12:40:58 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is the cause of Brahma...... ...!!!!!! !???????? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are all Brahmin..... ......... .!!!!!!.. .......... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do we have a caste system in.......... . ..Kali Yuga........ ...??????? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are ALL "Foot Soldiers"... ........motivate d by..........DESIRE. . .........!! !!!!!!!!! ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Syama....... . ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 5/8/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, May 8, 2009, 1:31 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, if a light is covered it shines itself none-the-less. So everything is Brahman. Aham Bhahmasmi - I am Brahman, tat-tvamasi - you are Brahman, Fine! So now we have solved the problems of life by this conclusion?? ? Are we no longer faced with Tritapa??? No more birth, old age, disease, or death, rebirth? So simply knowing I am Brahman is enough? If so, why are there MORE sutras? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the discussion. You are a philosopher. .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects@ .. com, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My point is that all the three states are actually the same, thought is operational even in deep sleep, the proof is that the breath is not stoping there. The only salvage is that the question of brahman perhaps ceases in deep sleep, and you become the bed you are on and everything else in existence.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question is also - what is not brahman - if there is something that is not brahman then we are attributing two entities of existence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, May 6, 2009 3:04:17 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The answer is 1) Wakefulness, 2) Dream state, 3) Deep Sleep. But the Subject is Brahman... What IS Brahman? That's the point... Y/s, R- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually there are many ways to answer that question, but that would be sans the point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sacred Group Group <sacred-objects> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, May 6, 2009 12:00:22 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who sleeps in the day??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Rick Brown's iPhone > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.richardshawbrow n.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 5, 2009, at 21:34, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What happens every day when you sleep? Does this thought as to if its established or not occur? In other words, what is causing the totality to vanish after sleep? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday, May 4, 2009 11:10:15 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we justify "Aham bramhasmi"? = I AM BRAHMAN (spiritual) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we justify "Tat-tvamasi" --- YOU ARE BRAHMAN (spiritual) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the Subject is Brahman = spiritual totality. Is that established? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y/s, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In sacred-objects, surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have to ask ourselves, what is the actual object of the vedanta sutra bhasyas? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have often been enamored by the amount of hard work put into this website: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://sacred- / texts.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure how many of you have seen this site, but it truly is a treasure trove. Please promote it to all people who might have an inclination to either spirituality or religion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In any case, how can we justify "Aham bramhasmi"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, May 3, 2009 3:43:24 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Vedanta Sutras are highest discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Veda=awareness, anta=end (highest) truth of Brahman is, therefore, at question... "Athato brahmajijnasa" VDS#1, So subject is "Brahman." From the onset this is established. And from hereafter the agreement ends.. But it is the highest subject matter of discussion by swan like men of great merit who come in contact with our discussions of the great Brahma Sutras by "sukriti" and they/we will each go deeper as a result.. Y/s, R- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, 108 SRIMAD BHAKTI VEDENTA SYAMASUNDARA SARASWATI DASA <syamasundara100008 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am learning..... . ......... ....!!!!! !!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I "read"...... . .......all the time!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The "question" is.......... .....???? ????????. ........Do I understand.. ......... ..????? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I .........."READ" ........... .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ONE MAN'S OPINION..... ......... ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fruit of Vedanta Sutra....... is SRI Mad....Bhagavatam. . ............ !!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Syama....... .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 5/2/09, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedanta Sutras > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, May 2, 2009, 4:50 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow!!! The growing of the WWW has made the Vedic knowledge available in a Google search. Still, how many members of this group have read the entire Vedana Sutra (Brahma-sutras) by Vyasa, upon which every Sampradaya in Hinduism, from advaitavaad to dvaitavaad, is based? How many here, besides me, have read it??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. ...eh!? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > font-weight: bold; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span..yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; } #ygrp-mlmsg a { color: #1E66AE; } div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } --> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your preferred Email name! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New Email addresses available on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hurry before someone else does! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your new Email address! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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