The essential Hindu (vegetarian religion? OR WHAT!)

February 4, 2009

Dear All,Back in 1967, when I received "dvi-janma diksha gayatri" and began daily Brahma Gayatri and study of Shastra, I actually thought that "Hindu" was a vegetarian religion. I thought being Hindu meant being Vegetarian. And I though each and every Hindu was vegetarian. But when I went to India in Jan 1968 I was in for a BIG surprise. Many, even some deshi Brahmins, are eating meat. Mostly only dirt poor Hindus live on dall-bhatt vegetarian diet.On top of that I learned that Hindu meant TWO opposing religions, Dvaita v/s Advaita. To be a bona fide sampradaya required a unique explanation of the Vedanta Sutras and Bh Gita by the adi-acharya that differs from all others in matters of these relationships1) relationship between mattar (jada) and mattar.2) relationship between God and matter3) relationship between the

Jivatmas and God4) relationship between the Jivatmas and Mattar5) relationship between the Jivatma and (another) Jivatma.This is called "pancha shambandha" or 5-fold relationship vidya, taking the three elements of a) God aka Brahman, b) Jivatma, and c) mattar as the main points of logic.What I found in all my years in and with India is that: 1) Hindu is supposed to be a vegetarian religion, but in kali yuga it is NOT a vegetarian religion, 2) Hindu means either dvaita-vaad (GOD) or advaita-vaad (Godless), and 3) that the average Hindu has no idea what is the difference. Nor have they studied Hindu Shastra, except maybe little bits of Ramayana and Mahabharat. And even very small % of Hindus have actually "got a clue" what their religion is all about. That it is about theism OR atheism. And most haven't got a clue, and they spout, "every path leads to the divine" - WAIT, every path doesn't take us to Calcutta!

So Bharat-varsha's different philosophies need to be better understood by Hindus, so they can get started, one way or another.Best wishes,Richard

New Email addresses available on

Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail.

Hurry before someone else does!

February 5, 2009

> hi Richard,yes thanks for your sharing your profound knowledge and insight.

although what you say about hindus is right,i think in kali yuga,there is

universal ignorance in all countries.in thailand most thais don't really

understand profound buddhism,preferring animist ancestor worship and

lamaism.in america most don't understand simple economics about consuming

less than they produce.in australia most aussies can't bat or

bowl,preferring their sport on tv.

however in india i think we can still find a higher percentage of

vegetarian than the rest of the planet.and probably more spiritual

aspirants and enlighhtened ones .though of course there is always room for

improvement we have to count our blessings as they are.

regards

twit

Dear All,

>

> Back in 1967, when I received " dvi-janma diksha gayatri " and began daily

> Brahma Gayatri and study of Shastra, I actually thought that " Hindu " was a

> vegetarian religion. I thought being Hindu meant being Vegetarian. And I

> though each and every Hindu was vegetarian. But when I went to India in

> Jan 1968 I was in for a BIG surprise.Â Many, even some deshi Brahmins,

> are eating meat. Mostly only dirt poor Hindus live on dall-bhatt

> vegetarian diet.

>

> On top of that I learned that Hindu meant TWO opposing religions, Dvaita

> v/s Advaita. To be a bona fide sampradaya required a unique explanation of

> the Vedanta Sutras and Bh Gita by the adi-acharya that differs from all

> others in matters of these relationships

>

> 1) relationship between mattar (jada) and mattar.

> 2) relationship between God and matter

> 3) relationship between the Jivatmas and God

> 4) relationship between the Jivatmas and Mattar

> 5) relationship between the Jivatma and (another) Jivatma.

>

> This is called " pancha shambandha " or 5-fold relationship vidya, taking

> the three elements of a) God aka Brahman, b) Jivatma, and c) mattar as the

> main points of logic.

>

> What I found in all my years in and with India is that:Â 1) Hindu is

> supposed to be a vegetarian religion, but in kali yuga it is NOT a

> vegetarian religion, 2) Hindu means either dvaita-vaad (GOD) or

> advaita-vaad (Godless), and 3) that the average Hindu has no idea what is

> the difference. Nor have they studied Hindu Shastra, except maybe little

> bits of Ramayana and Mahabharat. And even very small % of Hindus have

> actually " got a clue " what their religion is all about. That it is about

> theism OR atheism. And most haven't got a clue, and they spout, " every

> path leads to the divine " - WAIT, every path doesn't take us to Calcutta!

>

> SoÂ Bharat-varsha's different philosophies need to be better understood

> by Hindus, so they can get started, one way or another.

>

> Best wishes,

> Richard

>

> New Email names for you!

> Get the Email name you & #39;ve always wanted on the new @ymail and

> @rocketmail.

> Hurry before someone else does!

> http://mail.promotions./newdomains/aa/

February 5, 2009

Hi Richard,

I know that your gurudev Srila Prabhupada accepted Ayurveda as a vedic

science, and the Charaka Samhita is universally recognized as the

oldest complete ayurvedic scripture available today. Prabhupada one

time gave an example on June 27th, 1976 about sanctioned animal

killing from Ayurveda for curing human diseases. I first read this

exchange in Hari-Sauri's Prabhu's Diary books volume 3, page 74-76. It

was an eyeopener to read. Prabhupada seemed very relaxed about it.

It can be read at

http://prabhupadabooks.com/d.php?g=162724

In the Charaka Samhita, there are recommendation of the use of

eating beef from cows for certain diseases, here are some examples:

) Go-Khar-Ashwa. .....Prasaha Mrugapakshinah| - Sutrasthana Chap.27

Verse35-36. This reference pertains to dietary use of Go-mamsa ie

cow's meat.

2)Khar-Go-Mahishana m Cha mamsam Mamsakaram Param| - Chikitsasthana

Chap.8 Verse 158. This reference pertains to the use of cow-meat in

the treatment of Raj-yakshma (Tuberculosis) , when there is cachexia

and emaciation ie wasting of muscular tissue (mamsa dhatu)

I dont know if Prabhupada was even aware of these references.

However, because of searching relating to this topic, I became aware

that there has been an ongoing debate/controversy for some years in

India about the sanction of beef eating in the vedic texts. This

started in 2001 with the scholarly work ''Holy Cow: Beef in Indian

Dietary Traditions,'' by Dwijendra Narayan Jha, a historian at the

University of Delhi. It caused an uproar in India. See this news

story:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9503E7D8153DF934A2575BC0A9649C8B6\

3 & sec= & spon= & pagewanted=1

The opposing view was/is that this is a politically motivated work. I

found some very interesting comments that seems to debunk some of this

work at

http://www.groupsrv.com/religion/about228860.html, however, nothing

about the direct ayurvedic references. I am going to obtain the book

by Jha, but I am still looking for more info on opposing scholarly

work to that of Jha. Some people even claim there are verses in the

Manu Samhita sanctioning cow slaughter. This is directly opposed to

other verses I have seen translated. Didnt the Pandavas eat meat,

there are several direct references about that in the Mahabharata.

Thanks,

Ole

sacred-objects , Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66

wrote:

>

> Dear All,

>

> Back in 1967, when I received " dvi-janma diksha gayatri " and began

daily Brahma Gayatri and study of Shastra, I actually thought that

" Hindu " was a vegetarian religion. I thought being Hindu meant being

Vegetarian. And I though each and every Hindu was vegetarian. But when

I went to India in Jan 1968 I was in for a BIG surprise.Â Many, even

some deshi Brahmins, are eating meat. Mostly only dirt poor Hindus

live on dall-bhatt vegetarian diet.

>

> On top of that I learned that Hindu meant TWO opposing religions,

Dvaita v/s Advaita. To be a bona fide sampradaya required a unique

explanation of the Vedanta Sutras and Bh Gita by the adi-acharya that

differs from all others in matters of these relationships

>

> 1) relationship between mattar (jada) and mattar.

> 2) relationship between God and matter

> 3) relationship between the Jivatmas and God

> 4) relationship between the Jivatmas and Mattar

> 5) relationship between the Jivatma and (another) Jivatma.

>

> This is called " pancha shambandha " or 5-fold relationship vidya,

taking the three elements of a) God aka Brahman, b) Jivatma, and c)

mattar as the main points of logic.

>

> What I found in all my years in and with India is that:Â 1) Hindu

is supposed to be a vegetarian religion, but in kali yuga it is NOT a

vegetarian religion, 2) Hindu means either dvaita-vaad (GOD) or

advaita-vaad (Godless), and 3) that the average Hindu has no idea what

is the difference. Nor have they studied Hindu Shastra, except maybe

little bits of Ramayana and Mahabharat. And even very small % of

Hindus have actually " got a clue " what their religion is all about.

That it is about theism OR atheism. And most haven't got a clue, and

they spout, " every path leads to the divine " - WAIT, every path

doesn't take us to Calcutta!

>

> SoÂ Bharat-varsha's different philosophies need to be better

understood by Hindus, so they can get started, one way or another.

>

> Best wishes,

> Richard

>

> New Email names for you!

> Get the Email name you & #39;ve always wanted on the new @ymail and

@rocketmail.

> Hurry before someone else does!

> http://mail.promotions./newdomains/aa/

>

February 5, 2009

Sriman! When it comes to meat I have never heard of the references you

cite, and I'm not quoting Prabhupada's opinion. This is my OWN view.

And is based on verses like this from Srimad Bhagavatam...

SB 7.15.7: A person fully aware of religious principles should never

offer anything like meat, eggs or fish in the sraddha ceremony, and

even if one is a kshatriya he himself should not eat such things. When

suitable food prepared with ghee is offered to saintly persons, the

function is pleasing to the forefathers and the Supreme Lord, who are

never pleased when animals are killed in the name of sacrifice.

---The source and the message are good enough for me.

And for ayurveda, in my opinion it is the most useless system of medicine. A

total waste of time. Not I myself nor anyone I know has ever been cured of

anything by ayurveda, including Prabhupada. In India ayurveda is fun until one

gets REALLY sick. Then they MUST go to the hospital like everyone else. I'm sure

you could argue in favor of ayurveda. I'm not expert. It's just my opinion. If I

got really sick the last thing I would take is ayurveda.

Y/s,

Richard

sacred-objects , " alstrup " <alstrup wrote:

>

> Hi Richard,

>

> I know that your gurudev Srila Prabhupada accepted Ayurveda as a vedic

> science, and the Charaka Samhita is universally recognized as the

> oldest complete ayurvedic scripture available today. Prabhupada one

> time gave an example on June 27th, 1976 about sanctioned animal

> killing from Ayurveda for curing human diseases. I first read this

> exchange in Hari-Sauri's Prabhu's Diary books volume 3, page 74-76. It

> was an eyeopener to read. Prabhupada seemed very relaxed about it.

> It can be read at

>

> http://prabhupadabooks.com/d.php?g=162724

>

> In the Charaka Samhita, there are recommendation of the use of

> eating beef from cows for certain diseases, here are some examples:

>

> ) Go-Khar-Ashwa. .....Prasaha Mrugapakshinah| - Sutrasthana Chap.27

> Verse35-36. This reference pertains to dietary use of Go-mamsa ie

> cow's meat.

> 2)Khar-Go-Mahishana m Cha mamsam Mamsakaram Param| - Chikitsasthana

> Chap.8 Verse 158. This reference pertains to the use of cow-meat in

> the treatment of Raj-yakshma (Tuberculosis) , when there is cachexia

> and emaciation ie wasting of muscular tissue (mamsa dhatu)

>

> I dont know if Prabhupada was even aware of these references.

>

> However, because of searching relating to this topic, I became aware

> that there has been an ongoing debate/controversy for some years in

> India about the sanction of beef eating in the vedic texts. This

> started in 2001 with the scholarly work ''Holy Cow: Beef in Indian

> Dietary Traditions,'' by Dwijendra Narayan Jha, a historian at the

> University of Delhi. It caused an uproar in India. See this news

> story:

>

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9503E7D8153DF934A2575BC0A9649C8B6\

3 & sec= & spon= & pagewanted=1

>

> The opposing view was/is that this is a politically motivated work. I

> found some very interesting comments that seems to debunk some of this

> work at

>

> http://www.groupsrv.com/religion/about228860.html, however, nothing

> about the direct ayurvedic references. I am going to obtain the book

> by Jha, but I am still looking for more info on opposing scholarly

> work to that of Jha. Some people even claim there are verses in the

> Manu Samhita sanctioning cow slaughter. This is directly opposed to

> other verses I have seen translated. Didnt the Pandavas eat meat,

> there are several direct references about that in the Mahabharata.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Ole

>

> sacred-objects , Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > Back in 1967, when I received " dvi-janma diksha gayatri " and began

> daily Brahma Gayatri and study of Shastra, I actually thought that

> " Hindu " was a vegetarian religion. I thought being Hindu meant being

> Vegetarian. And I though each and every Hindu was vegetarian. But when

> I went to India in Jan 1968 I was in for a BIG surprise.Â Many, even

> some deshi Brahmins, are eating meat. Mostly only dirt poor Hindus

> live on dall-bhatt vegetarian diet.

> >

> > On top of that I learned that Hindu meant TWO opposing religions,

> Dvaita v/s Advaita. To be a bona fide sampradaya required a unique

> explanation of the Vedanta Sutras and Bh Gita by the adi-acharya that

> differs from all others in matters of these relationships

> >

> > 1) relationship between mattar (jada) and mattar.

> > 2) relationship between God and matter

> > 3) relationship between the Jivatmas and God

> > 4) relationship between the Jivatmas and Mattar

> > 5) relationship between the Jivatma and (another) Jivatma.

> >

> > This is called " pancha shambandha " or 5-fold relationship vidya,

> taking the three elements of a) God aka Brahman, b) Jivatma, and c)

> mattar as the main points of logic.

> >

> > What I found in all my years in and with India is that:Â 1) Hindu

> is supposed to be a vegetarian religion, but in kali yuga it is NOT a

> vegetarian religion, 2) Hindu means either dvaita-vaad (GOD) or

> advaita-vaad (Godless), and 3) that the average Hindu has no idea what

> is the difference. Nor have they studied Hindu Shastra, except maybe

> little bits of Ramayana and Mahabharat. And even very small % of

> Hindus have actually " got a clue " what their religion is all about.

> That it is about theism OR atheism. And most haven't got a clue, and

> they spout, " every path leads to the divine " - WAIT, every path

> doesn't take us to Calcutta!

> >

> > SoÂ Bharat-varsha's different philosophies need to be better

> understood by Hindus, so they can get started, one way or another.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Richard

> >

> > New Email names for you!

> > Get the Email name you & #39;ve always wanted on the new @ymail and

> @rocketmail.

> > Hurry before someone else does!

> > http://mail.promotions./newdomains/aa/

> >

>

February 6, 2009

I was in residing in India for 7 years without leaving. During this

time I got sick very often and almost died of Ulcerative Colitis. I

tried Ayurveda from many people. But in the end it was like this:

1) Hospital saved my life

2) Allopathy kept me alive

3) Homeopathy cured my disease

4) Ayurveda was useless

About vegetarian diet, lets forget the contradictory " Vedic "

references and just ask a smart guy... " Dear Sir, what do you have to

say about meat eating? "

REPLY: Nothing will benefit human health or increase the chances for

survival of life on earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.

-- Albert Einstein

sacred-objects , Ole Alstrup <alstrup wrote:

>

> Well, I dont think it is related to enter into

> any debate about the effiacy of Ayurveda, that was not my point with

this

> posting, it was about the vedic references to vegetarianism and what

they say. The

> point here is to know what is actually stated in the texts about

> vegetarianism and the cow, not do disregard some statements because

they dont

> fit the adopted doctrine or give an opposing view, then one should

be able to

> explain the context of that. I just ordered the Jha book from amazon

and have

> so far read some interesting comments (mixed) from those who have

read it.

>

http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Holy-Cow-D-Jha/review/product/1859844243/ref=dp_db_cm\

_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8 & showViewpoints=1

>

> ________________________________

> Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66

> sacred-objects

> Thursday, 5 February, 2009 19:31:39

> Re: The essential Hindu (vegetarian

religion? OR WHAT!)

>

> Sriman! When it comes to meat I have never heard of the references you

> cite, and I'm not quoting Prabhupada's opinion. This is my OWN view.

> And is based on verses like this from Srimad Bhagavatam.. .

>

> SB 7.15.7: A person fully aware of religious principles should never

> offer anything like meat, eggs or fish in the sraddha ceremony, and

> even if one is a kshatriya he himself should not eat such things. When

> suitable food prepared with ghee is offered to saintly persons, the

> function is pleasing to the forefathers and the Supreme Lord, who are

> never pleased when animals are killed in the name of sacrifice.

>

> ---The source and the message are good enough for me.

>

> And for ayurveda, in my opinion it is the most useless system of

medicine. A total waste of time. Not I myself nor anyone I know has

ever been cured of anything by ayurveda, including Prabhupada. In

India ayurveda is fun until one gets REALLY sick. Then they MUST go to

the hospital like everyone else. I'm sure you could argue in favor of

ayurveda. I'm not expert. It's just my opinion. If I got really sick

the last thing I would take is ayurveda.

>

> Y/s,

> Richard

>

> sacred-objects, " alstrup " <alstrup@ > wrote:

> >

> > Hi Richard,

> >

> > I know that your gurudev Srila Prabhupada accepted Ayurveda as a vedic

> > science, and the Charaka Samhita is universally recognized as the

> > oldest complete ayurvedic scripture available today. Prabhupada one

> > time gave an example on June 27th, 1976 about sanctioned animal

> > killing from Ayurveda for curing human diseases. I first read this

> > exchange in Hari-Sauri's Prabhu's Diary books volume 3, page 74-76. It

> > was an eyeopener to read. Prabhupada seemed very relaxed about it.

> > It can be read at

> >

> > http://prabhupadabo oks.com/d. php?g=162724

> >

> > In the Charaka Samhita, there are recommendation of the use of

> > eating beef from cows for certain diseases, here are some examples:

> >

> > ) Go-Khar-Ashwa. ......Prasaha Mrugapakshinah| - Sutrasthana Chap.27

> > Verse35-36. This reference pertains to dietary use of Go-mamsa ie

> > cow's meat.

> > 2)Khar-Go-Mahishana m Cha mamsam Mamsakaram Param| - Chikitsasthana

> > Chap.8 Verse 158. This reference pertains to the use of cow-meat in

> > the treatment of Raj-yakshma (Tuberculosis) , when there is cachexia

> > and emaciation ie wasting of muscular tissue (mamsa dhatu)

> >

> > I dont know if Prabhupada was even aware of these references.

> >

> > However, because of searching relating to this topic, I became aware

> > that there has been an ongoing debate/controversy for some years in

> > India about the sanction of beef eating in the vedic texts. This

> > started in 2001 with the scholarly work ''Holy Cow: Beef in Indian

> > Dietary Traditions,' ' by Dwijendra Narayan Jha, a historian at the

> > University of Delhi. It caused an uproar in India. See this news

> > story:

> >

> http://query. nytimes.com/ gst/fullpage.. html?res= 9503E7D8153DF934

A2575BC0A9649C8B 63 & sec= & spon= & pagewanted= 1

> >

> > The opposing view was/is that this is a politically motivated work. I

> > found some very interesting comments that seems to debunk some of this

> > work at

> >

> > http://www.groupsrv .com/religion/ about228860. html, however, nothing

> > about the direct ayurvedic references. I am going to obtain the book

> > by Jha, but I am still looking for more info on opposing scholarly

> > work to that of Jha. Some people even claim there are verses in the

> > Manu Samhita sanctioning cow slaughter. This is directly opposed to

> > other verses I have seen translated. Didnt the Pandavas eat meat,

> > there are several direct references about that in the Mahabharata.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Ole

> >

> > sacred-objects, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > Back in 1967, when I received " dvi-janma diksha gayatri " and began

> > daily Brahma Gayatri and study of Shastra, I actually thought that

> > " Hindu " was a vegetarian religion. I thought being Hindu meant being

> > Vegetarian. And I though each and every Hindu was vegetarian. But when

> > I went to India in Jan 1968 I was in for a BIG surprise.Â Many, even

> > some deshi Brahmins, are eating meat. Mostly only dirt poor Hindus

> > live on dall-bhatt vegetarian diet.

> > >

> > > On top of that I learned that Hindu meant TWO opposing religions,

> > Dvaita v/s Advaita. To be a bona fide sampradaya required a unique

> > explanation of the Vedanta Sutras and Bh Gita by the adi-acharya that

> > differs from all others in matters of these relationships

> > >

> > > 1) relationship between mattar (jada) and mattar.

> > > 2) relationship between God and matter

> > > 3) relationship between the Jivatmas and God

> > > 4) relationship between the Jivatmas and Mattar

> > > 5) relationship between the Jivatma and (another) Jivatma.

> > >

> > > This is called " pancha shambandha " or 5-fold relationship vidya,

> > taking the three elements of a) God aka Brahman, b) Jivatma, and c)

> > mattar as the main points of logic.

> > >

> > > What I found in all my years in and with India is that:Â 1) Hindu

> > is supposed to be a vegetarian religion, but in kali yuga it is NOT a

> > vegetarian religion, 2) Hindu means either dvaita-vaad (GOD) or

> > advaita-vaad (Godless), and 3) that the average Hindu has no idea what

> > is the difference. Nor have they studied Hindu Shastra, except maybe

> > little bits of Ramayana and Mahabharat. And even very small % of

> > Hindus have actually " got a clue " what their religion is all about.

> > That it is about theism OR atheism. And most haven't got a clue, and

> > they spout, " every path leads to the divine " - WAIT, every path

> > doesn't take us to Calcutta!

> > >

> > > SoÂ Bharat-varsha' s different philosophies need to be better

> > understood by Hindus, so they can get started, one way or another.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > > Richard

> > >

> > > New Email names for you!

> > > Get the Email name you & #39;ve always wanted on the new @ymail and

> > @rocketmail.

> > > Hurry before someone else does!

> > > http://mail. promotions. / newdomains/ aa/

> > >

> >

>

February 7, 2009

Dis-ease usually = PAIN. And what does Ayurveda have to stop pain? In

the end they ALL go to the hospital if they are in pain. What's the

choice?

The whole discussion was originally based on my illusion that Hindu

and Buddhist were vegetarian religions. Which they are supposed to be.

Y/s,

Richard

sacred-objects , Ole Alstrup <alstrup wrote:

>

> There are many people with a different experience of ayurveda than

yourself.. I myself have mixed experiences with ayurveda! I only got

better recently from a chronic condition since 2006 after using a

western medicine based on glandular extracts. Some of the ayurvedic

medicines made with animal ingredients are very powerful, I have

compared these with the vegetarian versions. Meat is typically

recommended in cases where people are very weak. Also please realize

that Ayurveda is primarily meant as a preventive medical system.

>

> But I still want to focus on the topic in your subject line which is

entitled The essential Hindu (vegetarian religion? OR WHAT!), so when

I have read the Jha book and seen and researched the references, I

will update.

>

> ________________________________

> Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66

> sacred-objects

> Friday, 6 February, 2009 21:55:36

> Re: The essential Hindu (vegetarian

religion? OR WHAT!)

>

> I was in residing in India for 7 years without leaving. During this

> time I got sick very often and almost died of Ulcerative Colitis. I

> tried Ayurveda from many people. But in the end it was like this:

>

> 1) Hospital saved my life

> 2) Allopathy kept me alive

> 3) Homeopathy cured my disease

> 4) Ayurveda was useless

>

> About vegetarian diet, lets forget the contradictory " Vedic "

> references and just ask a smart guy... " Dear Sir, what do you have to

> say about meat eating? "

>

> REPLY: Nothing will benefit human health or increase the chances for

> survival of life on earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.

> -- Albert Einstein

>

> sacred-objects, Ole Alstrup <alstrup@ > wrote:

> >

> > Well, I dont think it is related to enter into

> > any debate about the effiacy of Ayurveda, that was not my point with

> this

> > posting, it was about the vedic references to vegetarianism and what

> they say. The

> > point here is to know what is actually stated in the texts about

> > vegetarianism and the cow, not do disregard some statements because

> they dont

> > fit the adopted doctrine or give an opposing view, then one should

> be able to

> > explain the context of that. I just ordered the Jha book from amazon

> and have

> > so far read some interesting comments (mixed) from those who have

> read it.

> >

> http://www.amazon. com/Myth- Holy-Cow- D-Jha/review/

product/18598442 43/ref=dp_ db_cm_cr_ acr_txt?ie= UTF8 & showViewpoi nts=1

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@>

> > sacred-objects

> > Thursday, 5 February, 2009 19:31:39

> > Re: The essential Hindu (vegetarian

> religion? OR WHAT!)

> >

> > Sriman! When it comes to meat I have never heard of the references you

> > cite, and I'm not quoting Prabhupada's opinion. This is my OWN view.

> > And is based on verses like this from Srimad Bhagavatam.. .

> >

> > SB 7.15.7: A person fully aware of religious principles should never

> > offer anything like meat, eggs or fish in the sraddha ceremony, and

> > even if one is a kshatriya he himself should not eat such things. When

> > suitable food prepared with ghee is offered to saintly persons, the

> > function is pleasing to the forefathers and the Supreme Lord, who are

> > never pleased when animals are killed in the name of sacrifice.

> >

> > ---The source and the message are good enough for me.

> >

> > And for ayurveda, in my opinion it is the most useless system of

> medicine. A total waste of time. Not I myself nor anyone I know has

> ever been cured of anything by ayurveda, including Prabhupada. In

> India ayurveda is fun until one gets REALLY sick. Then they MUST go to

> the hospital like everyone else. I'm sure you could argue in favor of

> ayurveda. I'm not expert. It's just my opinion. If I got really sick

> the last thing I would take is ayurveda.

> >

> > Y/s,

> > Richard

> >

> > sacred-objects, " alstrup " <alstrup@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Richard,

> > >

> > > I know that your gurudev Srila Prabhupada accepted Ayurveda as a

vedic

> > > science, and the Charaka Samhita is universally recognized as the

> > > oldest complete ayurvedic scripture available today. Prabhupada one

> > > time gave an example on June 27th, 1976 about sanctioned animal

> > > killing from Ayurveda for curing human diseases. I first read this

> > > exchange in Hari-Sauri's Prabhu's Diary books volume 3, page

74-76. It

> > > was an eyeopener to read. Prabhupada seemed very relaxed about it.

> > > It can be read at

> > >

> > > http://prabhupadabo oks.com/d. php?g=162724

> > >

> > > In the Charaka Samhita, there are recommendation of the use of

> > > eating beef from cows for certain diseases, here are some examples:

> > >

> > > ) Go-Khar-Ashwa. ......Prasaha Mrugapakshinah| - Sutrasthana Chap.27

> > > Verse35-36. This reference pertains to dietary use of Go-mamsa ie

> > > cow's meat.

> > > 2)Khar-Go-Mahishana m Cha mamsam Mamsakaram Param| - Chikitsasthana

> > > Chap.8 Verse 158. This reference pertains to the use of cow-meat in

> > > the treatment of Raj-yakshma (Tuberculosis) , when there is cachexia

> > > and emaciation ie wasting of muscular tissue (mamsa dhatu)

> > >

> > > I dont know if Prabhupada was even aware of these references.

> > >

> > > However, because of searching relating to this topic, I became aware

> > > that there has been an ongoing debate/controversy for some years in

> > > India about the sanction of beef eating in the vedic texts. This

> > > started in 2001 with the scholarly work ''Holy Cow: Beef in Indian

> > > Dietary Traditions,' ' by Dwijendra Narayan Jha, a historian at the

> > > University of Delhi. It caused an uproar in India. See this news

> > > story:

> > >

> > http://query. nytimes.com/ gst/fullpage. . html?res= 9503E7D8153DF934

> A2575BC0A9649C8B 63 & sec= & spon= & pagewanted= 1

> > >

> > > The opposing view was/is that this is a politically motivated

work. I

> > > found some very interesting comments that seems to debunk some

of this

> > > work at

> > >

> > > http://www.groupsrv .com/religion/ about228860. html, however,

nothing

> > > about the direct ayurvedic references. I am going to obtain the book

> > > by Jha, but I am still looking for more info on opposing scholarly

> > > work to that of Jha. Some people even claim there are verses in the

> > > Manu Samhita sanctioning cow slaughter. This is directly opposed to

> > > other verses I have seen translated. Didnt the Pandavas eat meat,

> > > there are several direct references about that in the Mahabharata.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > Ole

> > >

> > > sacred-objects, Richard Shaw Brown

<rsbj66@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > >

> > > > Back in 1967, when I received " dvi-janma diksha gayatri " and began

> > > daily Brahma Gayatri and study of Shastra, I actually thought that

> > > " Hindu " was a vegetarian religion. I thought being Hindu meant being

> > > Vegetarian. And I though each and every Hindu was vegetarian.

But when

> > > I went to India in Jan 1968 I was in for a BIG surprise.Â Many,

even

> > > some deshi Brahmins, are eating meat. Mostly only dirt poor Hindus

> > > live on dall-bhatt vegetarian diet.

> > > >

> > > > On top of that I learned that Hindu meant TWO opposing religions,

> > > Dvaita v/s Advaita. To be a bona fide sampradaya required a unique

> > > explanation of the Vedanta Sutras and Bh Gita by the adi-acharya

that

> > > differs from all others in matters of these relationships

> > > >

> > > > 1) relationship between mattar (jada) and mattar.

> > > > 2) relationship between God and matter

> > > > 3) relationship between the Jivatmas and God

> > > > 4) relationship between the Jivatmas and Mattar

> > > > 5) relationship between the Jivatma and (another) Jivatma.

> > > >

> > > > This is called " pancha shambandha " or 5-fold relationship vidya,

> > > taking the three elements of a) God aka Brahman, b) Jivatma, and c)

> > > mattar as the main points of logic.

> > > >

> > > > What I found in all my years in and with India is that:Â 1) Hindu

> > > is supposed to be a vegetarian religion, but in kali yuga it is

NOT a

> > > vegetarian religion, 2) Hindu means either dvaita-vaad (GOD) or

> > > advaita-vaad (Godless), and 3) that the average Hindu has no

idea what

> > > is the difference. Nor have they studied Hindu Shastra, except maybe

> > > little bits of Ramayana and Mahabharat. And even very small % of

> > > Hindus have actually " got a clue " what their religion is all about.

> > > That it is about theism OR atheism. And most haven't got a clue, and

> > > they spout, " every path leads to the divine " - WAIT, every path

> > > doesn't take us to Calcutta!

> > > >

> > > > SoÂ Bharat-varsha' s different philosophies need to be better

> > > understood by Hindus, so they can get started, one way or another.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > > Richard

> > > >

> > > > New Email names for you!

> > > > Get the Email name you & #39;ve always wanted on the new @ymail and

> > > @rocketmail.

> > > > Hurry before someone else does!

> > > > http://mail. promotions. / newdomains/ aa/

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

February 7, 2009

Your point

that Hindu were originally a vegetarian religion is what is being disputed by

the scriptural research by Jha, this is why the book has been so controversial.

Therefore I will read it to study further, since there are supposedly many

scriptural quotes from both both smrthi and shruthi.

With regards to non-violence towards animals, where would modern medicine and

drugs have been today or 50, 100, 150 years ago without animal testing?

- PAIN -

Pain is the commonest of

all symptoms -----

Pain is the biggest

problem since the beginning of mankind. All the systems of Philosophy have

taken origin in search of the method to relieve the Pain. The word 'disease'

itself denotes painful situation.

The main object of medicine and surgery is to ameliorate the suffering of

living beings. Ayurveda came into existence to eliminate the pain and suffering

of living being. Charak clearly says that 'Health is happiness and

disease is Pain'.

Being the member of medical society when we think that 'what is the most

common symptom for which a medical advice is sought ?'

then certainly we will find that most common symptom is pain

For pain in Ayurveda there are

many terms such as Shool, Vedana, Ruja etc.

This Shool or Vedana is described as symptom of many diseases or as

complication of some diseases

Site

of Pain (Vedana)

1] Mind (manas) and

2]Body along with sense organs

Varieties

of Pain

On the basis of intensity it may be of three types

1]Severe or Intense (Tivra)

2]Moderate (Madhya)

3]Mild (Mrudu)

It is also mentioned by Charak that this pain has got inverse relationship

with Tolerance (Satwa)of a patient

Predominance

of Dosha in Pain(Vedana)

Vata is

the main Dosha involved in pain . It is the main factor for generating and

spreading the pain

but for specific type of pain in specific region a specific fraction of Vayu

is responsible

eg. For Generalized pain - Vyana Vayu

Headache -Prana and Vyana Vayu

Abdominal pain -Saman and Apan

Vayu

Chest pain - Vyan and Pran Vayu

Causes

of Pain

Various causes of pain may be grouped as

1]Adhibhoutika

2]Adhyatmic

3]Adhidaivik

Drugs for Pain relief:

Drugs useful in relieving pain are listed as Vedanasthapan Drugs by Charakachharya.

According to him some of the drugs mentioned act by Guna , some act

by Vipak, some by virya and above all some of the drugs act by Prabhav.

In all types of pain there is

predominance of Vayu, therefore all drugs used should have some

ayurvedic properties that can normalise the vitiated Vayu .

Some of

the useful drugs in pain relief are :

For Headache -Jatamansi ,Brahmi,,Haritaki,Guduchi etc.

For Intestinal colic and Gases - Hingu, Lavana, Yavani etc.

For Uterine pain -Ashok, Daruharidra ,Dashamula etc.

For renal colic - Gokshura, Varuna etc

For arthritis -Nirgundi, Guggulu ,Dashamula etc.

Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66sacred-objects Sent: Saturday, 7 February, 2009 0:39:40 Re: The essential Hindu (vegetarian religion? OR WHAT!)

Dis-ease usually = PAIN. And what does Ayurveda have to stop pain? In

the end they ALL go to the hospital if they are in pain. What's the

choice?

The whole discussion was originally based on my illusion that Hindu

and Buddhist were vegetarian religions. Which they are supposed to be.

Y/s,

Richard

sacred-objects, Ole Alstrup <alstrup > wrote: