Gajendraji; Perhaps the Greatest Misinformed Speech on Jyotish

[Guest guest]

Mr. Vispute, Jyotish is a bonafide Veda-Anga, even if Mr. AK Kaul stands on the top of Everest & proclaims this most profound message, it shall remain so. Mr. Kaul has'nt got his history notes right, Varahamira was not an astrologer, he was firstly one of the most illumined Mathematical Genius. Infact the branch of Trignometery owes its very existence to this great Kashmiri Genius. History has it that only one mathematician was more brilliant than him, Sriman Bhaskara II, the founder of Diffrential Calculus. Now imagine these people gave us the very platform on which technology exists, & to call them Charlatans & Tricksters is a scam in itself. Sri. Varahamira's second proficiency was Astronomy, infact he was the first person in modern history to accurately predict eclipse's. Infact his astronomical classic, Pancha-Siddhantika, is regarded as the most independent, original & accurate compilation in modern astronomy. Sri. Vaharamira, was also a unparalleled astrologer, His compilation, Brihat Parashara Hora, remains the only accepatable, unrivaled Astrological Treastise. Infact with apologies to Muni Parashara, he became so proficient in this artistic science that he is regarded second only to Narada, in terms of proficiency in this science. It must be noted that Varahamira never made a living out of Astrology, so in his defence i must say Mr. Kaul's submission is a very shallow one. Yes, there are Charlatans & Scoundrels in the field of Jyotish, but that does not mean Mr. Kaul can malign the name of this Hallowed Science. I maintain that intution remains the most important aspect in jyotish & 90% astrologers don't have a clue because they pursue

materialistic use for this science. Pure-Minded, Devotee Astrologers, who don't price their services, are blessed with Veda Vision (intution) & they alone are fit to be tagged as Jyotishi's. If you know Mr. Kaul on a personal basis, & he has such a rationalist, scientific bent of mind, let him give us the mathematical exposition of this statement. Even you try it, if you are unable to do so, do us one favour, don't become a courier for such nonsense. "Supreme which is Infinite, does not suffer diminution when creating the world out of Himself, or gain addition when the created word attains Laya (merger) in Him. For, if the addition of even a fraction can make a difference to the infinite, then it could not have been infinite before such addition. Similarly infinite cannot become less than the infinite when anything is taken away from it. The Infinite is poorna, full and

limitless Supreme. The Prapancha (Universe) which is infinitely varied, is also limitless Supreme, the limitless Supreme will remain intact. Therefore, if this Poornam ( the infinitely varied form of the objective Prapancha) is taken away from that Poornam (the subject which is Infinite), that Poornam, the subject Infinite, alone will remain..." Remember a Mathematical Equation, not a philosophical one. If, Mr. Kaul & you can solve this equation, you both shall become genuine Vedic Astrologers... With Warm Regards to Sriman Avtar Kishen Kaul Gajendra <gajendravispute wrote: The following speech was delivered at Rotary Club, West Delhi, in September 2006. It will give you all the information as to how "scientific" and "Vedic" astrology is:Om tat sat brahmarpanamastu!Om Brahmanandam Parama sukhadam kevalam gyan moortim, dwandvateetam gagana sadrisham tat-tvam asyadi lakshyam ekam nityam vimalam achalamsarva dhee sakshi bhootam, bhavateetam triguna rahitam shree gurum tam namami "Vedic Astrology" - the greatest fraud on the Vedas!Dear friends. Good evening to everybody!I feel highly honoured to have been invited by Shri Ajay Bhasin for sharing my views about astrology and related topics with respected personalities assembled here. As most of us already know, we call these predictive gimmicks as "Vedic astrology" these days. When I was asked by

Shri Bhasin about the heading of my talk, I had thought of making it as "Vedic Astrology – the greatest fraud on the Vedas". On second thoughts, fearing that it would be too explosive a heading, I made it a sugar coated bitter pill by changing it to "Do we celebrate our festivals on correct days?".Well, actually, both i.e., the fraud known as "Vedic astrology" and "our celebrating all our festivals on wrong days" are inter-related. Let me start with "Vedic astrology" - as to why I call it a fraud!There is hardly anyone in India, who does not want to know as to when his "sade–sati" will start or end or as to which Dasha-antardasha he is running and when that will end etc. etc. even if he does not know ABC of jyotisha. I have gone through all those pangs myself and made a thorough study of all the astrological works besides a lot of astronomical books! I studied Western system of astrology also and had

become a sort of famous astrologer, though my predictions were as correct as anybody else's i.e. hardly 50%. However, this is a secret that no "jyotishi" shares with anybody -- that his/her predictions are hardly more correct than fifty per cent, whatever logic or Ayanamsha he/she may use! When I analyzed the reasons for such a dismal rate of success, the conclusions were startling! And I am keeping those very conclusions before you!Before proceeding further, I must, however, say something about myself since you are well within your rights to ask me as to what "qualifications" I have to demolish astrology that is being practised over the last several centuries, nay even millennia!My credentialsThough I am not laying any claims to being a scholar, however, I have actually studied all the four Vedas in original "archaic" Sanskrit with their different "Bhashyas", besides the various Brahmanas like

Shatapatha, Aitreya, Tatiriya etc. etc. I have studied, (in original Sanskrit!) about two hundred all the important Upanishads as well! I have also gone through both the epics viz. the Valmiki Ramayana and the Mahabharata --- in Sanskrit and from cover to cover, besides Adhyatma Ramayana, Ramacharitamanasa etc. etc.! There is hardly any Purana whether the Bhagavata, Shivapurana, Vishnu, Narada, Devi, Varaha, Matsya and Vishnudharmotara etc. etc. that I have not gone through in original Sanskrit. I have also studied exhaustively all the ancient astronomical works like the Vedanga Jyotisha, Panchasidhantika, Surya Sidhanta, Arya Bhati, Sidhanta Shiromani etc. etc. To crown it all, I was not a born renegade against the established traditions. On the other hand, I was initially "hypnotized" by "Vedic astrology" and "panchangas" myself and there is hardly any "text-book" of astrology either in Sanskrit or Urdu or English

or Hindi that I have not studied with due reverence, as if I was studying the Vedas! Having established my credentials thus, I CAN DECLARE IT WITHOUT ANY HESITATION AND WITH ALL THE EMPHASIS AT MY COMMAND, THAT THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO PREDICTIVE ASTROLOGY IN ANY OF THE VEDAS, UPANISHADAS OR BRAHMANAS. There are, however, some references to some odd types of predictions in some of the Puranas and the epics and therefore calling it as really a post-Vedic astrology is more correct. There is a rider there also, and that is that according to these scriptures, Makara Sankranti i.e. Pongal is nothing but a synonym of Uttarayana (the shortest day of the year) i.e. Winter Solstice and as everybody knows, it can take place these days only on or around December 21 every year. Thus the Uttarayana-cum-Makar Sankranti that we are celebrating now-a-days on January 14 is absolutely wrong and does not have any authority from

any shastra or even modern astronomy. Similarly, the Vaishakhi that is being celebrated on April 14 or so also is wrong since Mesha Sankranti is nothing but Vishuva (Vernal Equinox) or Vasant Sampat and it cannot take place on any day other than March 21/22, when the day and night are equal. Actually these Makara etc. sankrantis were known as Tapah etc. months during the Vedic period as there are no rashis in the Vedas but just six seasons and Madhu, Madhava etc. twelve months. As such, we are celebrating all our fasts, fairs and muhurtas on wrong days -- thanks to "Vedic astrologers" and their "Vedic astrology". The first and foremost thing I learnt from our shastras is that no system of predictions has any sanction either from the Vedas or even Puranas least of all our dharmashastras etc. since all our shastras admonish us from consulting "nakshatra jeevis" so much so that the Manusmriti calls these

nakshatrasoochis as outcastes and not fit to sit in any sabha of learned people.Those who can foresee our future do not reveal it to us beforehand:All the Ramayanas, whether Valmiki or Adhyatma or Ramacharitamanasa etc. etc. say that before deciding about the coronation of Bhagwan Rama, Dashratha wanted his guru Vasishtha to confirm the suitable muhurta for that function. It was on the advice of Vasishtha Muni that Dasharatha decided to anoint Rama as the Yuvraja the very next day, as it was "Tishya" i.e. Pushya nakshata then. From this anecdote, it is clear that either Vasishtha Muni did not know as to what was going to happen to Dasharatha by declaring Bhagwan Rama as a crown-prince or Vasishtha kept quiet deliberately since he did not want to interfere in the divine dispensation!Obviously, being the son of Brahmaji and a highly exalted yogi as well as a jnyani, Vasishtha-muni could peep into past as

well as future. It means that even if some exalted souls can foresee as to what is going to happen, they do not reveal our "bhavishya" before hand, unlike some of the astrologers of today, who masquerade as "Parasharas" and "Vamadevas" to tell us even our past and future janmas just by glancing at our birth-charts, even if those charts are wrong!The Gita is said to be the gist of all our shastras. When Arjuna expressed his doubt by saying naitadvidmah katarnno gareeyo, yadva jayema yadi va no jayeyuh "I do not know what is good for me nor do I know whether we will win or the Kauravas will win the war", Bhagwan Krishna neither asked him to consult some soothsayer nor did He tell him to wear some ruby! He just advised Arjuna "hato va prapsyasi swargam jitva va bokshyase maheem" i.e. "You must fight. If you get killed in the war, you will go to the heavens and if you win it you will be the lord of the whole

world".Thus all it boils down to is the fact that those who know (including Lord Krishna Himself!) as to what is going to happen and when do not divulge such "secrets" before hand to us.Remedial measures are a farce:Almost all the jyotishis suggest one or the other remedial measure to their clients, and mostly these are gems like diamond or ruby or sapphire etc. etc. What is surprising is that we have become so obsessed with Jyotish that we forget the entire itihasa of our past!(i) If these gems are that efficacious, why was then Dasharatha not suggested some "ruby" or "coral" to ward off the evil Dasha that was going to kill him when Rama would leave for the forests? Well, because our Rishis did not believe in such gimmicks at all!(ii) Bhagwan Krishna was born in a prison --- I wonder why He could not use some "sapphire" to be born in a palace!(iii) Vasudeva and Devaki---the parents of

Bhagwan Krishna--- were in chains when He was born! It is said that Lord Krishna was a complete – 16 kala sampoorna --- divine incarnation of Vishnu and was thus really Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient! But in spite of His Omniscience, Omnipotence and Omnipresence, Lord Krishna could not relieve the miseries of his parents, Vasudeva and Devaki, who had to remain in chains till Krishna killed Kansa!What does it demonstrate? Just the fact that if the Omniscient, Omnipresent and Omnipotent Krishna could not relieve the miseries of His own father or mother before the appointed time, how can a ruby or a sapphire---or some Mangala or Shani yagya--- remove all our miseries or fulfil all our ambitions? Obviously, we are being taken for a ride by such Jyotishis!iv) Then not in the distant past, Smti Indira Gandhi would run after astrologers for knowing her future. She wore a rare and original ekamukhi

rudraksha, which only either the Maharaja of Nepal had or she was wearing! It is said that some top-notch jyotishis had suggested that rudraksha to her! Ironically, both the King of Nepal as well Mrs. Indira Gandhi were assassinated "by the people" they "had trusted"----ekamukhi rudraksha not withstanding! What does it prove? That we should not be hoodwinked by soothsayers!v) Then again a well known Tantrik of yore---highly respected by the then PM--- is out on bail, not by dint of his "Tantra-Kriya" but because of some legal loopholes in FERA!Similarly, Dhirendra Brahmachari, another high profile "Tantrik", met with an accident in the plane he was flying himself! If he could not see his own death looming large how could he forewarn others!What does that prove? Obviously, it warns us against relying on any soothsayers, especially if they call themselves "Vedic Jyotishis" since they are taking us for a

ride literally. Kalasarpa Dosha -- a non-existent fear psychosis:These days we hear a lot about Kalasarpa Dosha! It is said to be present in any horoscope if all the planets are between Rahu and Ketu! My God! What a humbug! Rahu and Ketu are actually nodes of the Moon! That means they are just mathematical points without any dimensions ---therefore without any physical existence whatsoever! So according to "Vedic astrologers" even such "non-existent" phenomena can make our lives miserable for which we must do some upay! Do you need any other proofs for the jugglery that these cheats are indulging in?THE ONLY EFFECTIVE REMEDY, or UPAY, THEREFORE, IS THAT WE MUST REMEMBER HIM, THE ALMIGHTY, EVERY MOMENT OF OUR LIVES AND LEAVE EVERY THING TO HIS DIVINE WILL!. Fake Brighu Samhitas and Parasharis:We find a Brighu Samhita or a nadi Jyotishi or Aruna Samhita etc. in every Muhalla these days!

However, there is no mention in any of the Puranas or shastras that any Rishi like Vasishtha or Garga or Brighu etc. have ever written any books on predictive astrology. The Vishnu Purana by Parashara is full of astronomical references ---and that also sayana i.e. the seasonal year when Mesha sankranti is another name of Spring Equinox and so on, but we do not find any mention of any Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra there! Obviously, it is the worst concoction that can ever be had, and may be that is why such a Parashari is the bible of "Vedic astrologers"India has gone downhill because of astrology and astrologers:In India, we have started going downhill ever since our rulers started running after Jyotishis. In ancient days, during the time of the Mahabharata, it was a dharma yudha that we had to fight against our own Duryodhanas but ever since the advent of astrology almost simultaneously with the invasion of

Alexander the Great, and then the "Yavana Jatakam" of Sphujidwaja and the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the Yavana (mlechha!), we had to fight outsiders! The more the foreigners invaded us the more our rulers, instead of making a united effort against the invaders, started consulting soothsayers whom they called Rajajyotishis! Varahamihira the worst culprit:The maximum credit for creating such a fear psychosis of omens and ghosts and ghouls and storms and even clouds goes to Varahamihira of 5th century AD through his Brihat Samita and Brihat Jatakam and Panchasidhantika! Before venturing into the battlefield, our monarchs would ask their soothsayers to prepare "narpati jaya charya" and consult Brihat Samhita etc. to see whether the "ketuchara" was favourable at that time or not! No wonder with such a preliminary and hopeless knowledge of astronomical facts, we were being pushed back into dark ages by Varahamihira

and his followers!Our historical records are witness to the fact that we were vanquished in every battle, whether it was with Alexander the Great or Muhamud of Gazni or Chengiz Khan or Nadir Shah or the Moguls or finally the East India Company, thanks to the dependence of our monarchs on soothsayers (Rajajyotishis, huh!) instead of the principles of war strategy and statecraft as adumbrated by the Vedas, the Manu and even Chanakya, who chided kings for consulting soothsayers!BJP the latest example:The fate of the BJP has not been any better than that of our earlier monarchs by depending more on their "Vedic Jyotishis" who were responsible for getting "Vedic Jyotisha (sic!)" prescribed in Indian Universities! It is that very move that boomeranged on the party and even the "Minister of astrology" did not win his own parliamentary seat from Allahabad, let alone being the Union Minister again. Do

you need any other proofs of the fact that these "Vedic Jyotishis" will make you lose your seat of power well before the appointed day just by making you advance your elections?If we continue to follow the trend of our "monarchs" of having blind faith in our soothsayers, then sooner than later we will become Babylon of yesteryears, which is known as Iraq today!Kashmiri Pandits were the worst affected by their blind faith in Jyotishis:Another reason for my revolt against the so called "Vedic astrology" is that as a Kashmiri Pandit, I have more to blame panchanga makers and soothsayers and their predictive gimmicks than anything or anybody else since they never forewarned us about any calamities that were going to befall us! On the other hand, just to prove their astrological gimmicks, they just made ---and are still making --- us celebrate all our festivals, including Mahashivaratri, Vasanti Navratras,

Ramanavami, Janmashtami and Sharadiya navratras etc. on wrong days. It is these very jyotishis, whom we had treated as our friends, philosophers and guides, who are responsible for our downfall as Kahsmiri Pandits, since they proved neither our friends, nor philosophers least of all our guides! These Panchanga makers/jyotishis were the first to flee from Kashmir in 1990--- like the king Hari Singh at the time of Pakistani raid in 1948--- since they had already made their alternate homes in safer places like Jammu and Delhi. Those Jyotishis just proved to be Shylocks, who were only interested in their Pound of flesh by way of Dakshinas for janmapatris and matching of horoscopes -- all cheating and nothing else!These soothsayers have such a hypnotic grip on us that initially even I was brain washed to believe that the Vedas had nothing else to do excepting teaching us predictive astrology! I was so convinced

that it appeared that even the principle of Secondary Progressions must have been exported from India to Western countries as the principle of "A day equals a year" was mentioned in our Vedas! But thank God, I woke up to the situation and could see through their tricks.There are no Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in the Vedas: Leave alone predictive gimmicks, actually there are neither rashis like Mesha, Vrisha etc. nor planets like Mangal, Shani etc. in the Vedas, Upanishads, Brahmanas etc. Similarly, the Vedanga Jyotisha, the first indigenous astronomical work of 14th century BCE, just tells us only as to how to calculate tithi, nakshatra and Uttarayana-cum-Tapah-cum Magha etc. months. It does not list any Mesha etc. rashis nor any planets like Mangal, Budha etc. Same is the case with Yajur Jyotisha of about 11th century BCE and later Atharva Jyotisha of about 5th century BCE. As such, it is really a fraud on

the Vedas being played by some charlatans to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology and hail themselves as "Vedic Jyotishis". It is a crime under "The Consumer Protection Act" as it is a misrepresentation of facts to a client and is thus a deficiency in service. Our predictions in the past also could never have been correct:It is said that over the past about 2000 years, our ancestors like Varahamihira or his son Prithuyashas etc., could make marvellously correct predictions. THAT IS NOTHING BUT HOGWASH! Let us see how: prior to the advent of scientific astronomy into India, i.e. about a couple of centuries back, panchangas were based on astronomical works like the Surya Sidhanta or Aryabhati or Sidhanta Shirmoani etc. etc. I have prepared a software called "Mahesh". It calculates, apart from the actual tithi, nakshatra, yoga, karna etc., the mean longitudes of all the planets from 10000 BCE to

12030 AD i.e. for more than 22,000 years as per the Surya Sidhanta, Aryabhati or Sidhanta Shiromani etc. besides comparing them with the longitudes as per modern astronomy. Anybody can download it freely from my discussion forumHinduCalendarUnfortunately for these jyotishis, we find that the very fundamental arguments of these sidahntas like the Surya Sidhanta, the Aryabhati, the Sidhanta Shiromani etc. etc. are absolutely wrong! . That naturally means that any panchanga based on them would also be wrong, with the result that any horoscope prepared on the basis of those panchangas could never be correct. Thus it is impossible for any astrological predictions to have been correct in the past! As such, it is all like the famous couplet of Ghalib "yoon to hai hamko janat ki haqeeqat maloom lekin; dil ke

bahlane ko Ghalib yeh khayal achha hai"Astrology cannot be a science Predictive astrology is supposed to be a "science"! What a preposterous statement! When the data on which predictions were based or are based these days are not correct, how can the results be correct and how can we call it a science at all? Stars do not affect us:It is said that stars affect us! It appears either these astrologers have gone honkers themselves or they suppose that the whole world has really gone mad! Let us see how:I am a puny human being on this small planet called earth. The sun is hundreds of thousands of times larger than the earth! And there are other stars of our nakshatra/rashichakra that are supposed to affect me individually as per the Dasha-Bhukti that is running in my horoscope! However, this fantastic statement has no leg to stand upon since the nearest star of that Rashichakra is Shravana!

And do you know its distance from me? It is seventeen light years! And it is several times larger than our sun! In other words, if that star wants i.e. Shravana wants to "affect" me individually, it will take it at least seventeen years to do so even if that "effect" travels at the speed of light! And by then, my Rahu or Shani or whatever Dasha it may be must have been over! Then how can such a star which is trillions of times larger than me send its rays in a concentrated form just to haunt me at a particular point of time! Can you imagine what type of laughing stocks we are making of ourselves by believing in such hocus pocus!Similarly, the next nearest star of our Rashichakra is Swati ! It is away by 26 light years from me and is again several times larger than our sun!!It thus defies imagination as to how we can call astrology a science or how it can be said that the "Stars affect us".Patri

Melapak (Horoscope Matching) is not warranted by shastras nor astrology books:Now coming to the fad called Patri Melapak i.e. horoscope matching! This fad is the rage of the day! You will be surprised to know that none of our shastras, whether the Manusmriti or the Ramayana or the Mahabharata, leave alone the Vedas, have anything to do with Patri Melapak even by mistake! We do not find any instances that any Vedic Rishi was addicted to such a fad, since may be then most of them would still have been looking for a "suitable Patri" for melapak! Not to speak of Dharma shastras, there is no mention of this type of a malady in any of the astrology books like the so called Parashari, or Mansagari or Phala Deepika or Jataka Parijata or any other work! It appears to be a creation of the jyotishis of over the last one hundred years or so. Aleberuni, who visited India in 1030 AD and recorded quite faithfully all his

experiences about Jyotisha and other things in India also has not mentioned anything of any "Melapak" in his work!"All India Calendar Reform Committee":Summing up, as we have just seen, not only are we subjected to non-existent fear psychosis like Kalasarpa Dosha and Patri Melapak etc. but we are compelled to celebrate all our festivals on worng days. There are quite a few people who agree with my point of view that these days we are celebrating Pitra Amavasya on the day of Dipavali and marriages during Pitra-Paksha! Similarly, we never celebrate Makar Sankranti on correct days i.e. December 21/22 but we celebrate it on January 14. We also celebrate Vaishakhi on April 14 instead of the day of Spring Equinox i.e., March 21 or so. This has been all because of the so called "Vedic astrology"To put our festivals back on the right track, I made quite a few representations to the Hon'ble President of India,

the Prime Minister of India, various ministries besides the Positional Astronomy Centre at Calcutta, who publish our Rashtriya Panchanga. I also made similar representations to all the reverred Shankaracharyas of all the six peethas, besides other saints and Mahatmas, but sorry to say, there has been absolutely no response from any quarter!We have now formed an "All India Calendar Reform Committee" and are enrolling members for the same. Those interested can log on to HinduCalendar for entering into discussions regarding the same. You can also get a list of correct dates of festivals for 2006 and 2007 from that forum. As an alternative, you can get in touch with me whenever you want to for any further clarifications.Thank you very much for listening to this "exhortation" against "Vedic astrology" and the

efforts I am making to streamline our calendars. Om tat sat brahmarpanam astuAvtar Krishen Kaul

Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required.

[Guest guest]

Dear Abhishek ,

I read this article I find some of things logical (Not everything)

and thought to share will all. You have to agree that there no

reference of astrology and any guidelines in Vedas and Upnishadas.

There might be some Pouranic (Puran) reference.

Astrology has become more Materialistic centric rather than

spiritual. Astrologer can't predict you future but a Yogi can!

So be a Yogi surrender to god and once you are enlightened you can

see everything you do not need any astrology.

For me I donot go to astrologer for everything. Not even once I went.

I just believe that you need to analyze chart once and wear correct

Gems or Rudraksha. ( I believe in Gem powers and Rudraksha.)

Rest all is you Karma and devotion to the God.

 

I just wanted to have some brain storming discussion on this that is

why I share this in the group. Take it in a positive way.

 

Thanks

Gajendra

 

 

sacred-objects , Abhishek Dutta

<benarsibabu wrote:

>

> Mr. Vispute,

>

> Jyotish is a bonafide Veda-Anga, even if Mr. AK Kaul stands on

the top of Everest & proclaims this most profound message, it shall

remain so.

>

> Mr. Kaul has'nt got his history notes right, Varahamira was not

an astrologer, he was firstly one of the most illumined Mathematical

Genius. Infact the branch of Trignometery owes its very existence to

this great Kashmiri Genius. History has it that only one

mathematician was more brilliant than him, Sriman Bhaskara II, the

founder of Diffrential Calculus. Now imagine these people gave us

the very platform on which technology exists, & to call them

Charlatans & Tricksters is a scam in itself.

>

> Sri. Varahamira's second proficiency was Astronomy, infact he

was the first person in modern history to accurately predict

eclipse's. Infact his astronomical classic, Pancha-Siddhantika, is

regarded as the most independent, original & accurate compilation in

modern astronomy.

>

> Sri. Vaharamira, was also a unparalleled astrologer, His

compilation, Brihat Parashara Hora, remains the only accepatable,

unrivaled Astrological Treastise. Infact with apologies to Muni

Parashara, he became so proficient in this artistic science that he

is regarded second only to Narada, in terms of proficiency in this

science. It must be noted that Varahamira never made a living out of

Astrology, so in his defence i must say Mr. Kaul's submission is a

very shallow one.

>

> Yes, there are Charlatans & Scoundrels in the field of Jyotish,

but that does not mean Mr. Kaul can malign the name of this Hallowed

Science. I maintain that intution remains the most important aspect

in jyotish & 90% astrologers don't have a clue because they pursue

materialistic use for this science. Pure-Minded, Devotee

Astrologers, who don't price their services, are blessed with Veda

Vision (intution) & they alone are fit to be tagged as Jyotishi's.

>

> If you know Mr. Kaul on a personal basis, & he has such a

rationalist, scientific bent of mind, let him give us the

mathematical exposition of this statement. Even you try it, if you

are unable to do so, do us one favour, don't become a courier for

such nonsense.

>

> " Supreme which is Infinite, does not suffer diminution when

creating the world out of Himself, or gain addition when the created

word attains Laya (merger) in Him. For, if the addition of even a

fraction can make a difference to the infinite, then it could not

have been infinite before such addition. Similarly infinite cannot

become less than the infinite when anything is taken away from it.

The Infinite is poorna, full and limitless Supreme. The Prapancha

(Universe) which is infinitely varied, is also limitless Supreme,

the limitless Supreme will remain intact. Therefore, if this Poornam

( the infinitely varied form of the objective Prapancha) is taken

away from that Poornam (the subject which is Infinite), that

Poornam, the subject Infinite, alone will remain... "

>

> Remember a Mathematical Equation, not a philosophical one. If,

Mr. Kaul & you can solve this equation, you both shall become

genuine Vedic Astrologers...

>

> With Warm Regards to Sriman Avtar Kishen Kaul

>

> Gajendra <gajendravispute wrote:

> The following speech was delivered at Rotary Club, West

Delhi, in

> September 2006. It will give you all the information as to

> how " scientific " and " Vedic " astrology is:

>

> Om tat sat brahmarpanamastu!

> Om Brahmanandam Parama sukhadam kevalam gyan moortim,

dwandvateetam

> gagana sadrisham tat-tvam asyadi lakshyam

> ekam nityam vimalam achalamsarva dhee sakshi bhootam, bhavateetam

> triguna rahitam shree gurum tam namami

> " Vedic Astrology " - the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

> Dear friends. Good evening to everybody!

>

> I feel highly honoured to have been invited by Shri Ajay Bhasin

for

> sharing my views about astrology and related topics with respected

> personalities assembled here. As most of us already know, we call

> these predictive gimmicks as " Vedic astrology " these days.

>

> When I was asked by Shri Bhasin about the heading of my talk, I

had

> thought of making it as " Vedic Astrology – the greatest fraud on

the

> Vedas " . On second thoughts, fearing that it would be too explosive

> a heading, I made it a sugar coated bitter pill by changing it

> to " Do we celebrate our festivals on correct days? " .

>

> Well, actually, both i.e., the fraud known as " Vedic astrology "

> and " our celebrating all our festivals on wrong days " are inter-

> related.

>

> Let me start with " Vedic astrology " - as to why I call it a fraud!

>

> There is hardly anyone in India, who does not want to know as to

> when his " sade–sati " will start or end or as to which Dasha-

> antardasha he is running and when that will end etc. etc. even if

he

> does not know ABC of jyotisha. I have gone through all those pangs

> myself and made a thorough study of all the astrological works

> besides a lot of astronomical books! I studied Western system of

> astrology also and had become a sort of famous astrologer, though

my

> predictions were as correct as anybody else's i.e. hardly 50%.

> However, this is a secret that no " jyotishi " shares with anybody --

 

> that his/her predictions are hardly more correct than fifty per

> cent, whatever logic or Ayanamsha he/she may use! When I analyzed

> the reasons for such a dismal rate of success, the conclusions

were

> startling! And I am keeping those very conclusions before you!

>

> Before proceeding further, I must, however, say something about

> myself since you are well within your rights to ask me as to

> what " qualifications " I have to demolish astrology that is being

> practised over the last several centuries, nay even millennia!

>

> My credentials

>

> Though I am not laying any claims to being a scholar, however, I

> have actually studied all the four Vedas in original " archaic "

> Sanskrit with their different " Bhashyas " , besides the various

> Brahmanas like Shatapatha, Aitreya, Tatiriya etc. etc. I have

> studied, (in original Sanskrit!) about two hundred all the

important

> Upanishads as well! I have also gone through both the epics viz.

the

> Valmiki Ramayana and the Mahabharata --- in Sanskrit and from

cover

> to cover, besides Adhyatma Ramayana, Ramacharitamanasa etc. etc.!

> There is hardly any Purana whether the Bhagavata, Shivapurana,

> Vishnu, Narada, Devi, Varaha, Matsya and Vishnudharmotara etc.

etc.

> that I have not gone through in original Sanskrit. I have also

> studied exhaustively all the ancient astronomical works like the

> Vedanga Jyotisha, Panchasidhantika, Surya Sidhanta, Arya Bhati,

> Sidhanta Shiromani etc. etc. To crown it all, I was not a born

> renegade against the established traditions. On the other hand, I

> was initially " hypnotized " by " Vedic astrology " and " panchangas "

> myself and there is hardly any " text-book " of astrology either in

> Sanskrit or Urdu or English or Hindi that I have not studied with

> due reverence, as if I was studying the Vedas!

>

> Having established my credentials thus, I CAN DECLARE IT WITHOUT

ANY

> HESITATION AND WITH ALL THE EMPHASIS AT MY COMMAND, THAT THERE IS

> ABSOLUTELY NO PREDICTIVE ASTROLOGY IN ANY OF THE VEDAS,

UPANISHADAS

> OR BRAHMANAS. There are, however, some references to some odd

types

> of predictions in some of the Puranas and the epics and therefore

> calling it as really a post-Vedic astrology is more correct. There

> is a rider there also, and that is that according to these

> scriptures, Makara Sankranti i.e. Pongal is nothing but a synonym

of

> Uttarayana (the shortest day of the year) i.e. Winter Solstice and

> as everybody knows, it can take place these days only on or around

> December 21 every year. Thus the Uttarayana-cum-Makar Sankranti

> that we are celebrating now-a-days on January 14 is absolutely

wrong

> and does not have any authority from any shastra or even modern

> astronomy. Similarly, the Vaishakhi that is being celebrated on

> April 14 or so also is wrong since Mesha Sankranti is nothing but

> Vishuva (Vernal Equinox) or Vasant Sampat and it cannot take place

> on any day other than March 21/22, when the day and night are

> equal. Actually these Makara etc. sankrantis were known as Tapah

> etc. months during the Vedic period as there are no rashis in the

> Vedas but just six seasons and Madhu, Madhava etc. twelve months.

> As such, we are celebrating all our fasts, fairs and muhurtas on

> wrong days -- thanks to " Vedic astrologers " and their " Vedic

> astrology " .

>

> The first and foremost thing I learnt from our shastras is that no

> system of predictions has any sanction either from the Vedas or

> even Puranas least of all our dharmashastras etc. since all our

> shastras admonish us from consulting " nakshatra jeevis " so much so

> that the Manusmriti calls these nakshatrasoochis as outcastes and

> not fit to sit in any sabha of learned people.

>

> Those who can foresee our future do not reveal it to us beforehand:

>

> All the Ramayanas, whether Valmiki or Adhyatma or

Ramacharitamanasa

> etc. etc. say that before deciding about the coronation of Bhagwan

> Rama, Dashratha wanted his guru Vasishtha to confirm the suitable

> muhurta for that function. It was on the advice of Vasishtha Muni

> that Dasharatha decided to anoint Rama as the Yuvraja the very

next

> day, as it was " Tishya " i.e. Pushya nakshata then. From this

> anecdote, it is clear that either Vasishtha Muni did not know as

to

> what was going to happen to Dasharatha by declaring Bhagwan Rama

as

> a crown-prince or Vasishtha kept quiet deliberately since he did

not

> want to interfere in the divine dispensation!

>

> Obviously, being the son of Brahmaji and a highly exalted yogi as

> well as a jnyani, Vasishtha-muni could peep into past as well as

> future. It means that even if some exalted souls can foresee as to

> what is going to happen, they do not reveal our " bhavishya " before

> hand, unlike some of the astrologers of today, who masquerade

> as " Parasharas " and " Vamadevas " to tell us even our past and

future

> janmas just by glancing at our birth-charts, even if those charts

> are wrong!

>

> The Gita is said to be the gist of all our shastras. When Arjuna

> expressed his doubt by saying naitadvidmah katarnno gareeyo, yadva

> jayema yadi va no jayeyuh " I do not know what is good for me nor

do

> I know whether we will win or the Kauravas will win the war " ,

> Bhagwan Krishna neither asked him to consult some soothsayer nor

did

> He tell him to wear some ruby! He just advised Arjuna " hato va

> prapsyasi swargam jitva va bokshyase maheem " i.e. " You must fight.

> If you get killed in the war, you will go to the heavens and if

you

> win it you will be the lord of the whole world " .

>

> Thus all it boils down to is the fact that those who know

(including

> Lord Krishna Himself!) as to what is going to happen and when do

not

> divulge such " secrets " before hand to us.

>

> Remedial measures are a farce:

>

> Almost all the jyotishis suggest one or the other remedial measure

> to their clients, and mostly these are gems like diamond or ruby

or

> sapphire etc. etc. What is surprising is that we have become so

> obsessed with Jyotish that we forget the entire itihasa of our

past!

>

> (i) If these gems are that efficacious, why was then Dasharatha

> not suggested some " ruby " or " coral " to ward off the evil Dasha

that

> was going to kill him when Rama would leave for the forests? Well,

> because our Rishis did not believe in such gimmicks at all!

>

> (ii) Bhagwan Krishna was born in a prison --- I wonder why He

> could not use some " sapphire " to be born in a palace!

>

> (iii) Vasudeva and Devaki---the parents of Bhagwan Krishna--- were

> in chains when He was born! It is said that Lord Krishna was a

> complete – 16 kala sampoorna --- divine incarnation of Vishnu and

> was thus really Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient! But in

> spite of His Omniscience, Omnipotence and Omnipresence, Lord

Krishna

> could not relieve the miseries of his parents, Vasudeva and

Devaki,

> who had to remain in chains till Krishna killed Kansa!

>

> What does it demonstrate? Just the fact that if the Omniscient,

> Omnipresent and Omnipotent Krishna could not relieve the miseries

of

> His own father or mother before the appointed time, how can a ruby

> or a sapphire---or some Mangala or Shani yagya--- remove all our

> miseries or fulfil all our ambitions? Obviously, we are being

taken

> for a ride by such Jyotishis!

>

> iv) Then not in the distant past, Smti Indira Gandhi would run

after

> astrologers for knowing her future. She wore a rare and original

> ekamukhi rudraksha, which only either the Maharaja of Nepal had or

> she was wearing! It is said that some top-notch jyotishis had

> suggested that rudraksha to her! Ironically, both the King of

Nepal

> as well Mrs. Indira Gandhi were assassinated " by the people "

> they " had trusted " ----ekamukhi rudraksha not withstanding!

> What does it prove? That we should not be hoodwinked by

soothsayers!

>

> v) Then again a well known Tantrik of yore---highly respected by

the

> then PM--- is out on bail, not by dint of his " Tantra-Kriya " but

> because of some legal loopholes in FERA!

> Similarly, Dhirendra Brahmachari, another high profile " Tantrik " ,

> met with an accident in the plane he was flying himself! If he

> could not see his own death looming large how could he forewarn

> others!

>

> What does that prove? Obviously, it warns us against relying on

any

> soothsayers, especially if they call themselves " Vedic Jyotishis "

> since they are taking us for a ride literally.

>

> Kalasarpa Dosha -- a non-existent fear psychosis:

>

> These days we hear a lot about Kalasarpa Dosha! It is said to be

> present in any horoscope if all the planets are between Rahu and

> Ketu! My God! What a humbug! Rahu and Ketu are actually nodes of

> the Moon! That means they are just mathematical points without any

> dimensions ---therefore without any physical existence whatsoever!

> So according to " Vedic astrologers " even such " non-existent "

> phenomena can make our lives miserable for which we must do some

> upay! Do you need any other proofs for the jugglery that these

> cheats are indulging in?

>

> THE ONLY EFFECTIVE REMEDY, or UPAY, THEREFORE, IS THAT WE MUST

> REMEMBER HIM, THE ALMIGHTY, EVERY MOMENT OF OUR LIVES AND LEAVE

> EVERY THING TO HIS DIVINE WILL!.

>

> Fake Brighu Samhitas and Parasharis:

>

> We find a Brighu Samhita or a nadi Jyotishi or Aruna Samhita etc.

in

> every Muhalla these days! However, there is no mention in any of

> the Puranas or shastras that any Rishi like Vasishtha or Garga or

> Brighu etc. have ever written any books on predictive astrology.

> The Vishnu Purana by Parashara is full of astronomical references -

-

> -and that also sayana i.e. the seasonal year when Mesha sankranti

is

> another name of Spring Equinox and so on, but we do not find any

> mention of any Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra there! Obviously, it

> is the worst concoction that can ever be had, and may be that is

why

> such a Parashari is the bible of " Vedic astrologers "

>

> India has gone downhill because of astrology and astrologers:

>

> In India, we have started going downhill ever since our rulers

> started running after Jyotishis. In ancient days, during the time

> of the Mahabharata, it was a dharma yudha that we had to fight

> against our own Duryodhanas but ever since the advent of astrology

> almost simultaneously with the invasion of Alexander the Great,

and

> then the " Yavana Jatakam " of Sphujidwaja and the Surya Sidhanta of

> Maya the Yavana (mlechha!), we had to fight outsiders! The more

> the foreigners invaded us the more our rulers, instead of making a

> united effort against the invaders, started consulting soothsayers

> whom they called Rajajyotishis!

>

> Varahamihira the worst culprit:

>

> The maximum credit for creating such a fear psychosis of omens and

> ghosts and ghouls and storms and even clouds goes to Varahamihira

> of 5th century AD through his Brihat Samita and Brihat Jatakam and

> Panchasidhantika! Before venturing into the battlefield, our

> monarchs would ask their soothsayers to prepare " narpati jaya

> charya " and consult Brihat Samhita etc. to see whether

> the " ketuchara " was favourable at that time or not! No wonder with

> such a preliminary and hopeless knowledge of astronomical facts,

we

> were being pushed back into dark ages by Varahamihira and his

> followers!

>

> Our historical records are witness to the fact that we were

> vanquished in every battle, whether it was with Alexander the

Great

> or Muhamud of Gazni or Chengiz Khan or Nadir Shah or the Moguls or

> finally the East India Company, thanks to the dependence of our

> monarchs on soothsayers (Rajajyotishis, huh!) instead of the

> principles of war strategy and statecraft as adumbrated by the

> Vedas, the Manu and even Chanakya, who chided kings for consulting

> soothsayers!

>

> BJP the latest example:

>

> The fate of the BJP has not been any better than that of our

earlier

> monarchs by depending more on their " Vedic Jyotishis " who were

> responsible for getting " Vedic Jyotisha (sic!) " prescribed in

Indian

> Universities! It is that very move that boomeranged on the party

> and even the " Minister of astrology " did not win his own

> parliamentary seat from Allahabad, let alone being the Union

> Minister again. Do you need any other proofs of the fact that

> these " Vedic Jyotishis " will make you lose your seat of power well

> before the appointed day just by making you advance your elections?

>

> If we continue to follow the trend of our " monarchs " of having

> blind faith in our soothsayers, then sooner than later we will

> become Babylon of yesteryears, which is known as Iraq today!

>

> Kashmiri Pandits were the worst affected by their blind faith in

> Jyotishis:

>

> Another reason for my revolt against the so called " Vedic

> astrology " is that as a Kashmiri Pandit, I have more to blame

> panchanga makers and soothsayers and their predictive gimmicks

than

> anything or anybody else since they never forewarned us about any

> calamities that were going to befall us! On the other hand, just

to

> prove their astrological gimmicks, they just made ---and are still

> making --- us celebrate all our festivals, including

Mahashivaratri,

> Vasanti Navratras, Ramanavami, Janmashtami and Sharadiya navratras

> etc. on wrong days. It is these very jyotishis, whom we had

treated

> as our friends, philosophers and guides, who are responsible for

our

> downfall as Kahsmiri Pandits, since they proved neither our

friends,

> nor philosophers least of all our guides! These Panchanga

> makers/jyotishis were the first to flee from Kashmir in 1990---

> like the king Hari Singh at the time of Pakistani raid in 1948---

> since they had already made their alternate homes in safer places

> like Jammu and Delhi. Those Jyotishis just proved to be Shylocks,

> who were only interested in their Pound of flesh by way of

Dakshinas

> for janmapatris and matching of horoscopes -- all cheating and

> nothing else!

>

> These soothsayers have such a hypnotic grip on us that initially

> even I was brain washed to believe that the Vedas had nothing else

> to do excepting teaching us predictive astrology! I was so

> convinced that it appeared that even the principle of Secondary

> Progressions must have been exported from India to Western

countries

> as the principle of " A day equals a year " was mentioned in our

> Vedas! But thank God, I woke up to the situation and could see

> through their tricks.

>

> There are no Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in the Vedas:

>

> Leave alone predictive gimmicks, actually there are neither rashis

> like Mesha, Vrisha etc. nor planets like Mangal, Shani etc. in the

> Vedas, Upanishads, Brahmanas etc. Similarly, the Vedanga Jyotisha,

> the first indigenous astronomical work of 14th century BCE, just

> tells us only as to how to calculate tithi, nakshatra and

Uttarayana-

> cum-Tapah-cum Magha etc. months. It does not list any Mesha etc.

> rashis nor any planets like Mangal, Budha etc. Same is the case

> with Yajur Jyotisha of about 11th century BCE and later Atharva

> Jyotisha of about 5th century BCE. As such, it is really a fraud

on

> the Vedas being played by some charlatans to call any predictive

> gimmicks as Vedic astrology and hail themselves as " Vedic

> Jyotishis " . It is a crime under " The Consumer Protection Act " as

it

> is a misrepresentation of facts to a client and is thus a

deficiency

> in service.

>

> Our predictions in the past also could never have been correct:

>

> It is said that over the past about 2000 years, our ancestors like

> Varahamihira or his son Prithuyashas etc., could make marvellously

> correct predictions. THAT IS NOTHING BUT HOGWASH! Let us see how:

> prior to the advent of scientific astronomy into India, i.e. about

a

> couple of centuries back, panchangas were based on astronomical

> works like the Surya Sidhanta or Aryabhati or Sidhanta Shirmoani

> etc. etc. I have prepared a software called " Mahesh " . It

> calculates, apart from the actual tithi, nakshatra, yoga, karna

> etc., the mean longitudes of all the planets from 10000 BCE to

12030

> AD i.e. for more than 22,000 years as per the Surya Sidhanta,

> Aryabhati or Sidhanta Shiromani etc. besides comparing them with

the

> longitudes as per modern astronomy. Anybody can download it freely

> from my discussion forum

>

> HinduCalendar

>

> Unfortunately for these jyotishis, we find that the very

fundamental

> arguments of these sidahntas like the Surya Sidhanta, the

Aryabhati,

> the Sidhanta Shiromani etc. etc. are absolutely wrong! .

>

> That naturally means that any panchanga based on them would also

be

> wrong, with the result that any horoscope prepared on the basis of

> those panchangas could never be correct. Thus it is impossible for

> any astrological predictions to have been correct in the past! As

> such, it is all like the famous couplet of Ghalib " yoon to hai

> hamko janat ki haqeeqat maloom lekin; dil ke bahlane ko Ghalib yeh

> khayal achha hai "

>

> Astrology cannot be a science

>

> Predictive astrology is supposed to be a " science " ! What a

> preposterous statement! When the data on which predictions were

> based or are based these days are not correct, how can the results

> be correct and how can we call it a science at all?

>

> Stars do not affect us:

>

> It is said that stars affect us! It appears either these

> astrologers have gone honkers themselves or they suppose that the

> whole world has really gone mad! Let us see how:

> I am a puny human being on this small planet called earth. The sun

> is hundreds of thousands of times larger than the earth! And there

> are other stars of our nakshatra/rashichakra that are supposed to

> affect me individually as per the Dasha-Bhukti that is running in

my

> horoscope! However, this fantastic statement has no leg to stand

> upon since the nearest star of that Rashichakra is Shravana! And

do

> you know its distance from me? It is seventeen light years! And it

> is several times larger than our sun! In other words, if that star

> wants i.e. Shravana wants to " affect " me individually, it will

take

> it at least seventeen years to do so even if that " effect " travels

> at the speed of light! And by then, my Rahu or Shani or whatever

> Dasha it may be must have been over! Then how can such a star

which

> is trillions of times larger than me send its rays in a

concentrated

> form just to haunt me at a particular point of time! Can you

> imagine what type of laughing stocks we are making of ourselves by

> believing in such hocus pocus!

> Similarly, the next nearest star of our Rashichakra is Swati ! It

> is away by 26 light years from me

>

> and is again several times larger than our sun!!

>

> It thus defies imagination as to how we can call astrology a

science

> or how it can be said that the " Stars affect us " .

>

> Patri Melapak (Horoscope Matching) is not warranted by shastras

nor

> astrology books:

>

> Now coming to the fad called Patri Melapak i.e. horoscope

> matching! This fad is the rage of the day! You will be surprised

to

> know that none of our shastras, whether the Manusmriti or the

> Ramayana or the Mahabharata, leave alone the Vedas, have anything

to

> do with Patri Melapak even by mistake! We do not find any

instances

> that any Vedic Rishi was addicted to such a fad, since may be then

> most of them would still have been looking for a " suitable Patri "

> for melapak! Not to speak of Dharma shastras, there is no mention

of

> this type of a malady in any of the astrology books like the so

> called Parashari, or Mansagari or Phala Deepika or Jataka Parijata

> or any other work! It appears to be a creation of the jyotishis of

> over the last one hundred years or so. Aleberuni, who visited

India

> in 1030 AD and recorded quite faithfully all his experiences about

> Jyotisha and other things in India also has not mentioned anything

> of any " Melapak " in his work!

>

> " All India Calendar Reform Committee " :

>

> Summing up, as we have just seen, not only are we subjected to non-

> existent fear psychosis like Kalasarpa Dosha and Patri Melapak

etc.

> but we are compelled to celebrate all our festivals on worng

> days. There are quite a few people who agree with my point of

> view that these days we are celebrating Pitra Amavasya on the day

of

> Dipavali and marriages during Pitra-Paksha! Similarly, we never

> celebrate Makar Sankranti on correct days i.e. December 21/22 but

we

> celebrate it on January 14. We also celebrate Vaishakhi on April

14

> instead of the day of Spring Equinox i.e., March 21 or so. This

has

> been all because of the so called " Vedic astrology "

>

> To put our festivals back on the right track, I made quite a few

> representations to the Hon'ble President of India, the Prime

> Minister of India, various ministries besides the Positional

> Astronomy Centre at Calcutta, who publish our Rashtriya Panchanga.

> I also made similar representations to all the reverred

> Shankaracharyas of all the six peethas, besides other saints and

> Mahatmas, but sorry to say, there has been absolutely no response

> from any quarter!

>

> We have now formed an " All India Calendar Reform Committee " and

are

> enrolling members for the same. Those interested can log on to

> HinduCalendar for entering into

> discussions regarding the same. You can also get a list of correct

> dates of festivals for 2006 and 2007 from that forum. As an

> alternative, you can get in touch with me whenever you want to for

> any further clarifications.

>

> Thank you very much for listening to this " exhortation "

> against " Vedic astrology " and the efforts I am making to

streamline

> our calendars. Om tat sat

> brahmarpanam astu

>

> Avtar Krishen Kaul

 

> Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Gajendra, A Brainstorming session should not malign a person as illustrious as Varahamira. That said should Jyotish be blamed for its commercialisation!!! The clients as well as quaks jyotishi's should alone be blamed. The River Ganges flows illuminating one & all, it is only us humans who pollute & violate her. That said Mr. AK Kaul is wrong to bring God into all this, I once met a person who had claimed to read the Srimad Bhagvad 1008 times over. He read it but did not imbibe what was written, then what's the use.!!! Mr. Kaul's credentials are questionable. As are his intention which are amply visible in his half cooked allegations about Jyotish. A genuine astrologer need not be a Yogi, but he surely must be a devotee... If i ever run into this Kaul fellow surely he will carry a better understanding, regarding the

class of Sri. Varahamira. For one who cannot control the calendar of his own life, surely he can set the cosmic calendar right!!! Gajendra <gajendravispute wrote: Dear Abhishek ,I read this article I find some of things logical (Not everything) and thought to share will all. You have to agree that there no reference of astrology and any guidelines in Vedas and Upnishadas.There might be some Pouranic (Puran) reference.Astrology has become more Materialistic centric rather than spiritual.

Astrologer can't predict you future but a Yogi can! So be a Yogi surrender to god and once you are enlightened you can see everything you do not need any astrology. For me I donot go to astrologer for everything. Not even once I went.I just believe that you need to analyze chart once and wear correct Gems or Rudraksha. ( I believe in Gem powers and Rudraksha.)Rest all is you Karma and devotion to the God. I just wanted to have some brain storming discussion on this that is why I share this in the group. Take it in a positive way.ThanksGajendrasacred-objects , Abhishek Dutta <benarsibabu wrote:>> Mr. Vispute,> > Jyotish is a bonafide Veda-Anga, even if Mr. AK Kaul stands on the top of Everest & proclaims this most profound message, it shall remain so.> > Mr.

Kaul has'nt got his history notes right, Varahamira was not an astrologer, he was firstly one of the most illumined Mathematical Genius. Infact the branch of Trignometery owes its very existence to this great Kashmiri Genius. History has it that only one mathematician was more brilliant than him, Sriman Bhaskara II, the founder of Diffrential Calculus. Now imagine these people gave us the very platform on which technology exists, & to call them Charlatans & Tricksters is a scam in itself.> > Sri. Varahamira's second proficiency was Astronomy, infact he was the first person in modern history to accurately predict eclipse's. Infact his astronomical classic, Pancha-Siddhantika, is regarded as the most independent, original & accurate compilation in modern astronomy.> > Sri. Vaharamira, was also a unparalleled astrologer, His compilation, Brihat Parashara Hora, remains the only accepatable,

unrivaled Astrological Treastise. Infact with apologies to Muni Parashara, he became so proficient in this artistic science that he is regarded second only to Narada, in terms of proficiency in this science. It must be noted that Varahamira never made a living out of Astrology, so in his defence i must say Mr. Kaul's submission is a very shallow one.> > Yes, there are Charlatans & Scoundrels in the field of Jyotish, but that does not mean Mr. Kaul can malign the name of this Hallowed Science. I maintain that intution remains the most important aspect in jyotish & 90% astrologers don't have a clue because they pursue materialistic use for this science. Pure-Minded, Devotee Astrologers, who don't price their services, are blessed with Veda Vision (intution) & they alone are fit to be tagged as Jyotishi's.> > If you know Mr. Kaul on a personal basis, & he has such a rationalist,

scientific bent of mind, let him give us the mathematical exposition of this statement. Even you try it, if you are unable to do so, do us one favour, don't become a courier for such nonsense. > > "Supreme which is Infinite, does not suffer diminution when creating the world out of Himself, or gain addition when the created word attains Laya (merger) in Him. For, if the addition of even a fraction can make a difference to the infinite, then it could not have been infinite before such addition. Similarly infinite cannot become less than the infinite when anything is taken away from it. The Infinite is poorna, full and limitless Supreme. The Prapancha (Universe) which is infinitely varied, is also limitless Supreme, the limitless Supreme will remain intact. Therefore, if this Poornam ( the infinitely varied form of the objective Prapancha) is taken away from that Poornam (the subject which is Infinite), that

Poornam, the subject Infinite, alone will remain..."> > Remember a Mathematical Equation, not a philosophical one. If, Mr. Kaul & you can solve this equation, you both shall become genuine Vedic Astrologers... > > With Warm Regards to Sriman Avtar Kishen Kaul > > Gajendra <gajendravispute wrote:> The following speech was delivered at Rotary Club, West Delhi, in > September 2006. It will give you all the information as to > how "scientific" and "Vedic" astrology is:> > Om tat sat brahmarpanamastu!> Om Brahmanandam Parama sukhadam kevalam gyan moortim, dwandvateetam > gagana sadrisham tat-tvam asyadi lakshyam > ekam nityam vimalam achalamsarva dhee sakshi bhootam, bhavateetam > triguna rahitam shree gurum tam namami > "Vedic Astrology" - the greatest fraud on the Vedas!> Dear friends. Good evening to

everybody!> > I feel highly honoured to have been invited by Shri Ajay Bhasin for > sharing my views about astrology and related topics with respected > personalities assembled here. As most of us already know, we call > these predictive gimmicks as "Vedic astrology" these days. > > When I was asked by Shri Bhasin about the heading of my talk, I had > thought of making it as "Vedic Astrology – the greatest fraud on the > Vedas". On second thoughts, fearing that it would be too explosive > a heading, I made it a sugar coated bitter pill by changing it > to "Do we celebrate our festivals on correct days?".> > Well, actually, both i.e., the fraud known as "Vedic astrology" > and "our celebrating all our festivals on wrong days" are inter-> related. > > Let me start with "Vedic astrology" - as to why I call it a fraud!> > There is

hardly anyone in India, who does not want to know as to > when his "sade–sati" will start or end or as to which Dasha-> antardasha he is running and when that will end etc. etc. even if he > does not know ABC of jyotisha. I have gone through all those pangs > myself and made a thorough study of all the astrological works > besides a lot of astronomical books! I studied Western system of > astrology also and had become a sort of famous astrologer, though my > predictions were as correct as anybody else's i.e. hardly 50%. > However, this is a secret that no "jyotishi" shares with anybody --> that his/her predictions are hardly more correct than fifty per > cent, whatever logic or Ayanamsha he/she may use! When I analyzed > the reasons for such a dismal rate of success, the conclusions were > startling! And I am keeping those very conclusions before you!> > Before

proceeding further, I must, however, say something about > myself since you are well within your rights to ask me as to > what "qualifications" I have to demolish astrology that is being > practised over the last several centuries, nay even millennia!> > My credentials> > Though I am not laying any claims to being a scholar, however, I > have actually studied all the four Vedas in original "archaic" > Sanskrit with their different "Bhashyas", besides the various > Brahmanas like Shatapatha, Aitreya, Tatiriya etc. etc. I have > studied, (in original Sanskrit!) about two hundred all the important > Upanishads as well! I have also gone through both the epics viz. the > Valmiki Ramayana and the Mahabharata --- in Sanskrit and from cover > to cover, besides Adhyatma Ramayana, Ramacharitamanasa etc. etc.! > There is hardly any Purana whether the Bhagavata,

Shivapurana, > Vishnu, Narada, Devi, Varaha, Matsya and Vishnudharmotara etc. etc. > that I have not gone through in original Sanskrit. I have also > studied exhaustively all the ancient astronomical works like the > Vedanga Jyotisha, Panchasidhantika, Surya Sidhanta, Arya Bhati, > Sidhanta Shiromani etc. etc. To crown it all, I was not a born > renegade against the established traditions. On the other hand, I > was initially "hypnotized" by "Vedic astrology" and "panchangas" > myself and there is hardly any "text-book" of astrology either in > Sanskrit or Urdu or English or Hindi that I have not studied with > due reverence, as if I was studying the Vedas! > > Having established my credentials thus, I CAN DECLARE IT WITHOUT ANY > HESITATION AND WITH ALL THE EMPHASIS AT MY COMMAND, THAT THERE IS > ABSOLUTELY NO PREDICTIVE ASTROLOGY IN ANY OF THE VEDAS, UPANISHADAS

> OR BRAHMANAS. There are, however, some references to some odd types > of predictions in some of the Puranas and the epics and therefore > calling it as really a post-Vedic astrology is more correct. There > is a rider there also, and that is that according to these > scriptures, Makara Sankranti i.e. Pongal is nothing but a synonym of > Uttarayana (the shortest day of the year) i.e. Winter Solstice and > as everybody knows, it can take place these days only on or around > December 21 every year. Thus the Uttarayana-cum-Makar Sankranti > that we are celebrating now-a-days on January 14 is absolutely wrong > and does not have any authority from any shastra or even modern > astronomy. Similarly, the Vaishakhi that is being celebrated on > April 14 or so also is wrong since Mesha Sankranti is nothing but > Vishuva (Vernal Equinox) or Vasant Sampat and it cannot take

place > on any day other than March 21/22, when the day and night are > equal. Actually these Makara etc. sankrantis were known as Tapah > etc. months during the Vedic period as there are no rashis in the > Vedas but just six seasons and Madhu, Madhava etc. twelve months. > As such, we are celebrating all our fasts, fairs and muhurtas on > wrong days -- thanks to "Vedic astrologers" and their "Vedic > astrology". > > The first and foremost thing I learnt from our shastras is that no > system of predictions has any sanction either from the Vedas or > even Puranas least of all our dharmashastras etc. since all our > shastras admonish us from consulting "nakshatra jeevis" so much so > that the Manusmriti calls these nakshatrasoochis as outcastes and > not fit to sit in any sabha of learned people.> > Those who can foresee our future do not reveal it to us

beforehand:> > All the Ramayanas, whether Valmiki or Adhyatma or Ramacharitamanasa > etc. etc. say that before deciding about the coronation of Bhagwan > Rama, Dashratha wanted his guru Vasishtha to confirm the suitable > muhurta for that function. It was on the advice of Vasishtha Muni > that Dasharatha decided to anoint Rama as the Yuvraja the very next > day, as it was "Tishya" i.e. Pushya nakshata then. From this > anecdote, it is clear that either Vasishtha Muni did not know as to > what was going to happen to Dasharatha by declaring Bhagwan Rama as > a crown-prince or Vasishtha kept quiet deliberately since he did not > want to interfere in the divine dispensation!> > Obviously, being the son of Brahmaji and a highly exalted yogi as > well as a jnyani, Vasishtha-muni could peep into past as well as > future. It means that even if some exalted

souls can foresee as to > what is going to happen, they do not reveal our "bhavishya" before > hand, unlike some of the astrologers of today, who masquerade > as "Parasharas" and "Vamadevas" to tell us even our past and future > janmas just by glancing at our birth-charts, even if those charts > are wrong!> > The Gita is said to be the gist of all our shastras. When Arjuna > expressed his doubt by saying naitadvidmah katarnno gareeyo, yadva > jayema yadi va no jayeyuh "I do not know what is good for me nor do > I know whether we will win or the Kauravas will win the war", > Bhagwan Krishna neither asked him to consult some soothsayer nor did > He tell him to wear some ruby! He just advised Arjuna "hato va > prapsyasi swargam jitva va bokshyase maheem" i.e. "You must fight. > If you get killed in the war, you will go to the heavens and if you > win it you

will be the lord of the whole world".> > Thus all it boils down to is the fact that those who know (including > Lord Krishna Himself!) as to what is going to happen and when do not > divulge such "secrets" before hand to us.> > Remedial measures are a farce:> > Almost all the jyotishis suggest one or the other remedial measure > to their clients, and mostly these are gems like diamond or ruby or > sapphire etc. etc. What is surprising is that we have become so > obsessed with Jyotish that we forget the entire itihasa of our past!> > (i) If these gems are that efficacious, why was then Dasharatha > not suggested some "ruby" or "coral" to ward off the evil Dasha that > was going to kill him when Rama would leave for the forests? Well, > because our Rishis did not believe in such gimmicks at all!> > (ii) Bhagwan Krishna was born in

a prison --- I wonder why He > could not use some "sapphire" to be born in a palace!> > (iii) Vasudeva and Devaki---the parents of Bhagwan Krishna--- were > in chains when He was born! It is said that Lord Krishna was a > complete – 16 kala sampoorna --- divine incarnation of Vishnu and > was thus really Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient! But in > spite of His Omniscience, Omnipotence and Omnipresence, Lord Krishna > could not relieve the miseries of his parents, Vasudeva and Devaki, > who had to remain in chains till Krishna killed Kansa!> > What does it demonstrate? Just the fact that if the Omniscient, > Omnipresent and Omnipotent Krishna could not relieve the miseries of > His own father or mother before the appointed time, how can a ruby > or a sapphire---or some Mangala or Shani yagya--- remove all our > miseries or fulfil all our ambitions?

Obviously, we are being taken > for a ride by such Jyotishis!> > iv) Then not in the distant past, Smti Indira Gandhi would run after > astrologers for knowing her future. She wore a rare and original > ekamukhi rudraksha, which only either the Maharaja of Nepal had or > she was wearing! It is said that some top-notch jyotishis had > suggested that rudraksha to her! Ironically, both the King of Nepal > as well Mrs. Indira Gandhi were assassinated "by the people" > they "had trusted"----ekamukhi rudraksha not withstanding! > What does it prove? That we should not be hoodwinked by soothsayers!> > v) Then again a well known Tantrik of yore---highly respected by the > then PM--- is out on bail, not by dint of his "Tantra-Kriya" but > because of some legal loopholes in FERA!> Similarly, Dhirendra Brahmachari, another high profile "Tantrik", >

met with an accident in the plane he was flying himself! If he > could not see his own death looming large how could he forewarn > others!> > What does that prove? Obviously, it warns us against relying on any > soothsayers, especially if they call themselves "Vedic Jyotishis" > since they are taking us for a ride literally. > > Kalasarpa Dosha -- a non-existent fear psychosis:> > These days we hear a lot about Kalasarpa Dosha! It is said to be > present in any horoscope if all the planets are between Rahu and > Ketu! My God! What a humbug! Rahu and Ketu are actually nodes of > the Moon! That means they are just mathematical points without any > dimensions ---therefore without any physical existence whatsoever! > So according to "Vedic astrologers" even such "non-existent" > phenomena can make our lives miserable for which we must do some > upay! Do

you need any other proofs for the jugglery that these > cheats are indulging in?> > THE ONLY EFFECTIVE REMEDY, or UPAY, THEREFORE, IS THAT WE MUST > REMEMBER HIM, THE ALMIGHTY, EVERY MOMENT OF OUR LIVES AND LEAVE > EVERY THING TO HIS DIVINE WILL!. > > Fake Brighu Samhitas and Parasharis:> > We find a Brighu Samhita or a nadi Jyotishi or Aruna Samhita etc. in > every Muhalla these days! However, there is no mention in any of > the Puranas or shastras that any Rishi like Vasishtha or Garga or > Brighu etc. have ever written any books on predictive astrology. > The Vishnu Purana by Parashara is full of astronomical references --> -and that also sayana i.e. the seasonal year when Mesha sankranti is > another name of Spring Equinox and so on, but we do not find any > mention of any Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra there! Obviously, it > is the worst

concoction that can ever be had, and may be that is why > such a Parashari is the bible of "Vedic astrologers"> > India has gone downhill because of astrology and astrologers:> > In India, we have started going downhill ever since our rulers > started running after Jyotishis. In ancient days, during the time > of the Mahabharata, it was a dharma yudha that we had to fight > against our own Duryodhanas but ever since the advent of astrology > almost simultaneously with the invasion of Alexander the Great, and > then the "Yavana Jatakam" of Sphujidwaja and the Surya Sidhanta of > Maya the Yavana (mlechha!), we had to fight outsiders! The more > the foreigners invaded us the more our rulers, instead of making a > united effort against the invaders, started consulting soothsayers > whom they called Rajajyotishis! > > Varahamihira the worst culprit:>

> The maximum credit for creating such a fear psychosis of omens and > ghosts and ghouls and storms and even clouds goes to Varahamihira > of 5th century AD through his Brihat Samita and Brihat Jatakam and > Panchasidhantika! Before venturing into the battlefield, our > monarchs would ask their soothsayers to prepare "narpati jaya > charya" and consult Brihat Samhita etc. to see whether > the "ketuchara" was favourable at that time or not! No wonder with > such a preliminary and hopeless knowledge of astronomical facts, we > were being pushed back into dark ages by Varahamihira and his > followers!> > Our historical records are witness to the fact that we were > vanquished in every battle, whether it was with Alexander the Great > or Muhamud of Gazni or Chengiz Khan or Nadir Shah or the Moguls or > finally the East India Company, thanks to the dependence of our

> monarchs on soothsayers (Rajajyotishis, huh!) instead of the > principles of war strategy and statecraft as adumbrated by the > Vedas, the Manu and even Chanakya, who chided kings for consulting > soothsayers!> > BJP the latest example:> > The fate of the BJP has not been any better than that of our earlier > monarchs by depending more on their "Vedic Jyotishis" who were > responsible for getting "Vedic Jyotisha (sic!)" prescribed in Indian > Universities! It is that very move that boomeranged on the party > and even the "Minister of astrology" did not win his own > parliamentary seat from Allahabad, let alone being the Union > Minister again. Do you need any other proofs of the fact that > these "Vedic Jyotishis" will make you lose your seat of power well > before the appointed day just by making you advance your elections?> > If we

continue to follow the trend of our "monarchs" of having > blind faith in our soothsayers, then sooner than later we will > become Babylon of yesteryears, which is known as Iraq today!> > Kashmiri Pandits were the worst affected by their blind faith in > Jyotishis:> > Another reason for my revolt against the so called "Vedic > astrology" is that as a Kashmiri Pandit, I have more to blame > panchanga makers and soothsayers and their predictive gimmicks than > anything or anybody else since they never forewarned us about any > calamities that were going to befall us! On the other hand, just to > prove their astrological gimmicks, they just made ---and are still > making --- us celebrate all our festivals, including Mahashivaratri, > Vasanti Navratras, Ramanavami, Janmashtami and Sharadiya navratras > etc. on wrong days. It is these very jyotishis, whom we had

treated > as our friends, philosophers and guides, who are responsible for our > downfall as Kahsmiri Pandits, since they proved neither our friends, > nor philosophers least of all our guides! These Panchanga > makers/jyotishis were the first to flee from Kashmir in 1990--- > like the king Hari Singh at the time of Pakistani raid in 1948--- > since they had already made their alternate homes in safer places > like Jammu and Delhi. Those Jyotishis just proved to be Shylocks, > who were only interested in their Pound of flesh by way of Dakshinas > for janmapatris and matching of horoscopes -- all cheating and > nothing else!> > These soothsayers have such a hypnotic grip on us that initially > even I was brain washed to believe that the Vedas had nothing else > to do excepting teaching us predictive astrology! I was so > convinced that it appeared that

even the principle of Secondary > Progressions must have been exported from India to Western countries > as the principle of "A day equals a year" was mentioned in our > Vedas! But thank God, I woke up to the situation and could see > through their tricks.> > There are no Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in the Vedas: > > Leave alone predictive gimmicks, actually there are neither rashis > like Mesha, Vrisha etc. nor planets like Mangal, Shani etc. in the > Vedas, Upanishads, Brahmanas etc. Similarly, the Vedanga Jyotisha, > the first indigenous astronomical work of 14th century BCE, just > tells us only as to how to calculate tithi, nakshatra and Uttarayana-> cum-Tapah-cum Magha etc. months. It does not list any Mesha etc. > rashis nor any planets like Mangal, Budha etc. Same is the case > with Yajur Jyotisha of about 11th century BCE and later Atharva >

Jyotisha of about 5th century BCE. As such, it is really a fraud on > the Vedas being played by some charlatans to call any predictive > gimmicks as Vedic astrology and hail themselves as "Vedic > Jyotishis". It is a crime under "The Consumer Protection Act" as it > is a misrepresentation of facts to a client and is thus a deficiency > in service. > > Our predictions in the past also could never have been correct:> > It is said that over the past about 2000 years, our ancestors like > Varahamihira or his son Prithuyashas etc., could make marvellously > correct predictions. THAT IS NOTHING BUT HOGWASH! Let us see how: > prior to the advent of scientific astronomy into India, i.e. about a > couple of centuries back, panchangas were based on astronomical > works like the Surya Sidhanta or Aryabhati or Sidhanta Shirmoani > etc. etc. I have prepared a

software called "Mahesh". It > calculates, apart from the actual tithi, nakshatra, yoga, karna > etc., the mean longitudes of all the planets from 10000 BCE to 12030 > AD i.e. for more than 22,000 years as per the Surya Sidhanta, > Aryabhati or Sidhanta Shiromani etc. besides comparing them with the > longitudes as per modern astronomy. Anybody can download it freely > from my discussion forum> > HinduCalendar> > Unfortunately for these jyotishis, we find that the very fundamental > arguments of these sidahntas like the Surya Sidhanta, the Aryabhati, > the Sidhanta Shiromani etc. etc. are absolutely wrong! . > > That naturally means that any panchanga based on them would also be > wrong, with the result that any horoscope prepared on the basis of

> those panchangas could never be correct. Thus it is impossible for > any astrological predictions to have been correct in the past! As > such, it is all like the famous couplet of Ghalib "yoon to hai > hamko janat ki haqeeqat maloom lekin; dil ke bahlane ko Ghalib yeh > khayal achha hai"> > Astrology cannot be a science > > Predictive astrology is supposed to be a "science"! What a > preposterous statement! When the data on which predictions were > based or are based these days are not correct, how can the results > be correct and how can we call it a science at all? > > Stars do not affect us:> > It is said that stars affect us! It appears either these > astrologers have gone honkers themselves or they suppose that the > whole world has really gone mad! Let us see how:> I am a puny human being on this small planet called earth. The sun

> is hundreds of thousands of times larger than the earth! And there > are other stars of our nakshatra/rashichakra that are supposed to > affect me individually as per the Dasha-Bhukti that is running in my > horoscope! However, this fantastic statement has no leg to stand > upon since the nearest star of that Rashichakra is Shravana! And do > you know its distance from me? It is seventeen light years! And it > is several times larger than our sun! In other words, if that star > wants i.e. Shravana wants to "affect" me individually, it will take > it at least seventeen years to do so even if that "effect" travels > at the speed of light! And by then, my Rahu or Shani or whatever > Dasha it may be must have been over! Then how can such a star which > is trillions of times larger than me send its rays in a concentrated > form just to haunt me at a particular

point of time! Can you > imagine what type of laughing stocks we are making of ourselves by > believing in such hocus pocus!> Similarly, the next nearest star of our Rashichakra is Swati ! It > is away by 26 light years from me > > and is again several times larger than our sun!!> > It thus defies imagination as to how we can call astrology a science > or how it can be said that the "Stars affect us".> > Patri Melapak (Horoscope Matching) is not warranted by shastras nor > astrology books:> > Now coming to the fad called Patri Melapak i.e. horoscope > matching! This fad is the rage of the day! You will be surprised to > know that none of our shastras, whether the Manusmriti or the > Ramayana or the Mahabharata, leave alone the Vedas, have anything to > do with Patri Melapak even by mistake! We do not find any instances >

that any Vedic Rishi was addicted to such a fad, since may be then > most of them would still have been looking for a "suitable Patri" > for melapak! Not to speak of Dharma shastras, there is no mention of > this type of a malady in any of the astrology books like the so > called Parashari, or Mansagari or Phala Deepika or Jataka Parijata > or any other work! It appears to be a creation of the jyotishis of > over the last one hundred years or so. Aleberuni, who visited India > in 1030 AD and recorded quite faithfully all his experiences about > Jyotisha and other things in India also has not mentioned anything > of any "Melapak" in his work!> > "All India Calendar Reform Committee":> > Summing up, as we have just seen, not only are we subjected to non-> existent fear psychosis like Kalasarpa Dosha and Patri Melapak etc. > but we are compelled to celebrate

all our festivals on worng > days. There are quite a few people who agree with my point of > view that these days we are celebrating Pitra Amavasya on the day of > Dipavali and marriages during Pitra-Paksha! Similarly, we never > celebrate Makar Sankranti on correct days i.e. December 21/22 but we > celebrate it on January 14. We also celebrate Vaishakhi on April 14 > instead of the day of Spring Equinox i.e., March 21 or so. This has > been all because of the so called "Vedic astrology"> > To put our festivals back on the right track, I made quite a few > representations to the Hon'ble President of India, the Prime > Minister of India, various ministries besides the Positional > Astronomy Centre at Calcutta, who publish our Rashtriya Panchanga. > I also made similar representations to all the reverred > Shankaracharyas of all the six peethas, besides other

saints and > Mahatmas, but sorry to say, there has been absolutely no response > from any quarter!> > We have now formed an "All India Calendar Reform Committee" and are > enrolling members for the same. Those interested can log on to > HinduCalendar for entering into > discussions regarding the same. You can also get a list of correct > dates of festivals for 2006 and 2007 from that forum. As an > alternative, you can get in touch with me whenever you want to for > any further clarifications.> > Thank you very much for listening to this "exhortation" > against "Vedic astrology" and the efforts I am making to streamline > our calendars. Om tat sat > brahmarpanam astu> > Avtar Krishen Kaul> > > > > >

> > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. >

Forgot the famous last words? Access your message archive online.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

I already mentioned I do not agree all the views of Mr kaul.

My point is not to discuss Varahmira and other text.

My point is whether Astrology has any Vedic reference.

And when I mean Vedic I mean only Vedas (Four vedas) and Upanishdas

(12 main).

Rule is " Shruti is a praman " . At times when smruti is not supporting

shruti then disregard smruti.

I just want to know Vedic reference for the astrology (No puranas

please)

 

Thanks

Gajendra

 

sacred-objects , Abhishek Dutta

<benarsibabu wrote:

>

> Dear Gajendra,

>

> A Brainstorming session should not malign a person as

illustrious as Varahamira. That said should Jyotish be blamed for

its commercialisation!!! The clients as well as quaks jyotishi's

should alone be blamed. The River Ganges flows illuminating one &

all, it is only us humans who pollute & violate her.

>

> That said Mr. AK Kaul is wrong to bring God into all this, I

once met a person who had claimed to read the Srimad Bhagvad 1008

times over. He read it but did not imbibe what was written, then

what's the use.!!! Mr. Kaul's credentials are questionable. As are

his intention which are amply visible in his half cooked allegations

about Jyotish.

>

> A genuine astrologer need not be a Yogi, but he surely must be a

devotee...

>

> If i ever run into this Kaul fellow surely he will carry a

better understanding, regarding the class of Sri. Varahamira. For

one who cannot control the calendar of his own life, surely he can

set the cosmic calendar right!!!

>

> Gajendra <gajendravispute wrote:

> Dear Abhishek ,

> I read this article I find some of things logical (Not everything)

> and thought to share will all. You have to agree that there no

> reference of astrology and any guidelines in Vedas and Upnishadas.

> There might be some Pouranic (Puran) reference.

> Astrology has become more Materialistic centric rather than

> spiritual. Astrologer can't predict you future but a Yogi can!

> So be a Yogi surrender to god and once you are enlightened you can

> see everything you do not need any astrology.

> For me I donot go to astrologer for everything. Not even once I

went.

> I just believe that you need to analyze chart once and wear

correct

> Gems or Rudraksha. ( I believe in Gem powers and Rudraksha.)

> Rest all is you Karma and devotion to the God.

>

> I just wanted to have some brain storming discussion on this that

is

> why I share this in the group. Take it in a positive way.

>

> Thanks

> Gajendra

>

> sacred-objects , Abhishek Dutta

> <benarsibabu@> wrote:

> >

> > Mr. Vispute,

> >

> > Jyotish is a bonafide Veda-Anga, even if Mr. AK Kaul stands on

> the top of Everest & proclaims this most profound message, it

shall

> remain so.

> >

> > Mr. Kaul has'nt got his history notes right, Varahamira was not

> an astrologer, he was firstly one of the most illumined

Mathematical

> Genius. Infact the branch of Trignometery owes its very existence

to

> this great Kashmiri Genius. History has it that only one

> mathematician was more brilliant than him, Sriman Bhaskara II, the

> founder of Diffrential Calculus. Now imagine these people gave us

> the very platform on which technology exists, & to call them

> Charlatans & Tricksters is a scam in itself.

> >

> > Sri. Varahamira's second proficiency was Astronomy, infact he

> was the first person in modern history to accurately predict

> eclipse's. Infact his astronomical classic, Pancha-Siddhantika, is

> regarded as the most independent, original & accurate compilation

in

> modern astronomy.

> >

> > Sri. Vaharamira, was also a unparalleled astrologer, His

> compilation, Brihat Parashara Hora, remains the only accepatable,

> unrivaled Astrological Treastise. Infact with apologies to Muni

> Parashara, he became so proficient in this artistic science that

he

> is regarded second only to Narada, in terms of proficiency in this

> science. It must be noted that Varahamira never made a living out

of

> Astrology, so in his defence i must say Mr. Kaul's submission is a

> very shallow one.

> >

> > Yes, there are Charlatans & Scoundrels in the field of Jyotish,

> but that does not mean Mr. Kaul can malign the name of this

Hallowed

> Science. I maintain that intution remains the most important

aspect

> in jyotish & 90% astrologers don't have a clue because they pursue

> materialistic use for this science. Pure-Minded, Devotee

> Astrologers, who don't price their services, are blessed with Veda

> Vision (intution) & they alone are fit to be tagged as Jyotishi's.

> >

> > If you know Mr. Kaul on a personal basis, & he has such a

> rationalist, scientific bent of mind, let him give us the

> mathematical exposition of this statement. Even you try it, if you

> are unable to do so, do us one favour, don't become a courier for

> such nonsense.

> >

> > " Supreme which is Infinite, does not suffer diminution when

> creating the world out of Himself, or gain addition when the

created

> word attains Laya (merger) in Him. For, if the addition of even a

> fraction can make a difference to the infinite, then it could not

> have been infinite before such addition. Similarly infinite cannot

> become less than the infinite when anything is taken away from it.

> The Infinite is poorna, full and limitless Supreme. The Prapancha

> (Universe) which is infinitely varied, is also limitless Supreme,

> the limitless Supreme will remain intact. Therefore, if this

Poornam

> ( the infinitely varied form of the objective Prapancha) is taken

> away from that Poornam (the subject which is Infinite), that

> Poornam, the subject Infinite, alone will remain... "

> >

> > Remember a Mathematical Equation, not a philosophical one. If,

> Mr. Kaul & you can solve this equation, you both shall become

> genuine Vedic Astrologers...

> >

> > With Warm Regards to Sriman Avtar Kishen Kaul

> >

> > Gajendra <gajendravispute@> wrote:

> > The following speech was delivered at Rotary Club, West

> Delhi, in

> > September 2006. It will give you all the information as to

> > how " scientific " and " Vedic " astrology is:

> >

> > Om tat sat brahmarpanamastu!

> > Om Brahmanandam Parama sukhadam kevalam gyan moortim,

> dwandvateetam

> > gagana sadrisham tat-tvam asyadi lakshyam

> > ekam nityam vimalam achalamsarva dhee sakshi bhootam,

bhavateetam

> > triguna rahitam shree gurum tam namami

> > " Vedic Astrology " - the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

> > Dear friends. Good evening to everybody!

> >

> > I feel highly honoured to have been invited by Shri Ajay Bhasin

> for

> > sharing my views about astrology and related topics with

respected

> > personalities assembled here. As most of us already know, we

call

> > these predictive gimmicks as " Vedic astrology " these days.

> >

> > When I was asked by Shri Bhasin about the heading of my talk, I

> had

> > thought of making it as " Vedic Astrology – the greatest fraud on

> the

> > Vedas " . On second thoughts, fearing that it would be too

explosive

> > a heading, I made it a sugar coated bitter pill by changing it

> > to " Do we celebrate our festivals on correct days? " .

> >

> > Well, actually, both i.e., the fraud known as " Vedic astrology "

> > and " our celebrating all our festivals on wrong days " are inter-

> > related.

> >

> > Let me start with " Vedic astrology " - as to why I call it a

fraud!

> >

> > There is hardly anyone in India, who does not want to know as to

> > when his " sade–sati " will start or end or as to which Dasha-

> > antardasha he is running and when that will end etc. etc. even

if

> he

> > does not know ABC of jyotisha. I have gone through all those

pangs

> > myself and made a thorough study of all the astrological works

> > besides a lot of astronomical books! I studied Western system of

> > astrology also and had become a sort of famous astrologer,

though

> my

> > predictions were as correct as anybody else's i.e. hardly 50%.

> > However, this is a secret that no " jyotishi " shares with

anybody --

>

> > that his/her predictions are hardly more correct than fifty per

> > cent, whatever logic or Ayanamsha he/she may use! When I

analyzed

> > the reasons for such a dismal rate of success, the conclusions

> were

> > startling! And I am keeping those very conclusions before you!

> >

> > Before proceeding further, I must, however, say something about

> > myself since you are well within your rights to ask me as to

> > what " qualifications " I have to demolish astrology that is being

> > practised over the last several centuries, nay even millennia!

> >

> > My credentials

> >

> > Though I am not laying any claims to being a scholar, however, I

> > have actually studied all the four Vedas in original " archaic "

> > Sanskrit with their different " Bhashyas " , besides the various

> > Brahmanas like Shatapatha, Aitreya, Tatiriya etc. etc. I have

> > studied, (in original Sanskrit!) about two hundred all the

> important

> > Upanishads as well! I have also gone through both the epics viz.

> the

> > Valmiki Ramayana and the Mahabharata --- in Sanskrit and from

> cover

> > to cover, besides Adhyatma Ramayana, Ramacharitamanasa etc.

etc.!

> > There is hardly any Purana whether the Bhagavata, Shivapurana,

> > Vishnu, Narada, Devi, Varaha, Matsya and Vishnudharmotara etc.

> etc.

> > that I have not gone through in original Sanskrit. I have also

> > studied exhaustively all the ancient astronomical works like the

> > Vedanga Jyotisha, Panchasidhantika, Surya Sidhanta, Arya Bhati,

> > Sidhanta Shiromani etc. etc. To crown it all, I was not a born

> > renegade against the established traditions. On the other hand,

I

> > was initially " hypnotized " by " Vedic astrology " and " panchangas "

> > myself and there is hardly any " text-book " of astrology either

in

> > Sanskrit or Urdu or English or Hindi that I have not studied

with

> > due reverence, as if I was studying the Vedas!

> >

> > Having established my credentials thus, I CAN DECLARE IT WITHOUT

> ANY

> > HESITATION AND WITH ALL THE EMPHASIS AT MY COMMAND, THAT THERE

IS

> > ABSOLUTELY NO PREDICTIVE ASTROLOGY IN ANY OF THE VEDAS,

> UPANISHADAS

> > OR BRAHMANAS. There are, however, some references to some odd

> types

> > of predictions in some of the Puranas and the epics and

therefore

> > calling it as really a post-Vedic astrology is more correct.

There

> > is a rider there also, and that is that according to these

> > scriptures, Makara Sankranti i.e. Pongal is nothing but a

synonym

> of

> > Uttarayana (the shortest day of the year) i.e. Winter Solstice

and

> > as everybody knows, it can take place these days only on or

around

> > December 21 every year. Thus the Uttarayana-cum-Makar Sankranti

> > that we are celebrating now-a-days on January 14 is absolutely

> wrong

> > and does not have any authority from any shastra or even modern

> > astronomy. Similarly, the Vaishakhi that is being celebrated on

> > April 14 or so also is wrong since Mesha Sankranti is nothing

but

> > Vishuva (Vernal Equinox) or Vasant Sampat and it cannot take

place

> > on any day other than March 21/22, when the day and night are

> > equal. Actually these Makara etc. sankrantis were known as Tapah

> > etc. months during the Vedic period as there are no rashis in

the

> > Vedas but just six seasons and Madhu, Madhava etc. twelve

months.

> > As such, we are celebrating all our fasts, fairs and muhurtas on

> > wrong days -- thanks to " Vedic astrologers " and their " Vedic

> > astrology " .

> >

> > The first and foremost thing I learnt from our shastras is that

no

> > system of predictions has any sanction either from the Vedas or

> > even Puranas least of all our dharmashastras etc. since all our

> > shastras admonish us from consulting " nakshatra jeevis " so much

so

> > that the Manusmriti calls these nakshatrasoochis as outcastes

and

> > not fit to sit in any sabha of learned people.

> >

> > Those who can foresee our future do not reveal it to us

beforehand:

> >

> > All the Ramayanas, whether Valmiki or Adhyatma or

> Ramacharitamanasa

> > etc. etc. say that before deciding about the coronation of

Bhagwan

> > Rama, Dashratha wanted his guru Vasishtha to confirm the

suitable

> > muhurta for that function. It was on the advice of Vasishtha

Muni

> > that Dasharatha decided to anoint Rama as the Yuvraja the very

> next

> > day, as it was " Tishya " i.e. Pushya nakshata then. From this

> > anecdote, it is clear that either Vasishtha Muni did not know as

> to

> > what was going to happen to Dasharatha by declaring Bhagwan Rama

> as

> > a crown-prince or Vasishtha kept quiet deliberately since he did

> not

> > want to interfere in the divine dispensation!

> >

> > Obviously, being the son of Brahmaji and a highly exalted yogi

as

> > well as a jnyani, Vasishtha-muni could peep into past as well as

> > future. It means that even if some exalted souls can foresee as

to

> > what is going to happen, they do not reveal our " bhavishya "

before

> > hand, unlike some of the astrologers of today, who masquerade

> > as " Parasharas " and " Vamadevas " to tell us even our past and

> future

> > janmas just by glancing at our birth-charts, even if those

charts

> > are wrong!

> >

> > The Gita is said to be the gist of all our shastras. When Arjuna

> > expressed his doubt by saying naitadvidmah katarnno gareeyo,

yadva

> > jayema yadi va no jayeyuh " I do not know what is good for me nor

> do

> > I know whether we will win or the Kauravas will win the war " ,

> > Bhagwan Krishna neither asked him to consult some soothsayer nor

> did

> > He tell him to wear some ruby! He just advised Arjuna " hato va

> > prapsyasi swargam jitva va bokshyase maheem " i.e. " You must

fight.

> > If you get killed in the war, you will go to the heavens and if

> you

> > win it you will be the lord of the whole world " .

> >

> > Thus all it boils down to is the fact that those who know

> (including

> > Lord Krishna Himself!) as to what is going to happen and when do

> not

> > divulge such " secrets " before hand to us.

> >

> > Remedial measures are a farce:

> >

> > Almost all the jyotishis suggest one or the other remedial

measure

> > to their clients, and mostly these are gems like diamond or ruby

> or

> > sapphire etc. etc. What is surprising is that we have become so

> > obsessed with Jyotish that we forget the entire itihasa of our

> past!

> >

> > (i) If these gems are that efficacious, why was then Dasharatha

> > not suggested some " ruby " or " coral " to ward off the evil Dasha

> that

> > was going to kill him when Rama would leave for the forests?

Well,

> > because our Rishis did not believe in such gimmicks at all!

> >

> > (ii) Bhagwan Krishna was born in a prison --- I wonder why He

> > could not use some " sapphire " to be born in a palace!

> >

> > (iii) Vasudeva and Devaki---the parents of Bhagwan Krishna---

were

> > in chains when He was born! It is said that Lord Krishna was a

> > complete – 16 kala sampoorna --- divine incarnation of Vishnu

and

> > was thus really Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient! But in

> > spite of His Omniscience, Omnipotence and Omnipresence, Lord

> Krishna

> > could not relieve the miseries of his parents, Vasudeva and

> Devaki,

> > who had to remain in chains till Krishna killed Kansa!

> >

> > What does it demonstrate? Just the fact that if the Omniscient,

> > Omnipresent and Omnipotent Krishna could not relieve the

miseries

> of

> > His own father or mother before the appointed time, how can a

ruby

> > or a sapphire---or some Mangala or Shani yagya--- remove all our

> > miseries or fulfil all our ambitions? Obviously, we are being

> taken

> > for a ride by such Jyotishis!

> >

> > iv) Then not in the distant past, Smti Indira Gandhi would run

> after

> > astrologers for knowing her future. She wore a rare and original

> > ekamukhi rudraksha, which only either the Maharaja of Nepal had

or

> > she was wearing! It is said that some top-notch jyotishis had

> > suggested that rudraksha to her! Ironically, both the King of

> Nepal

> > as well Mrs. Indira Gandhi were assassinated " by the people "

> > they " had trusted " ----ekamukhi rudraksha not withstanding!

> > What does it prove? That we should not be hoodwinked by

> soothsayers!

> >

> > v) Then again a well known Tantrik of yore---highly respected by

> the

> > then PM--- is out on bail, not by dint of his " Tantra-Kriya " but

> > because of some legal loopholes in FERA!

> > Similarly, Dhirendra Brahmachari, another high

profile " Tantrik " ,

> > met with an accident in the plane he was flying himself! If he

> > could not see his own death looming large how could he forewarn

> > others!

> >

> > What does that prove? Obviously, it warns us against relying on

> any

> > soothsayers, especially if they call themselves " Vedic

Jyotishis "

> > since they are taking us for a ride literally.

> >

> > Kalasarpa Dosha -- a non-existent fear psychosis:

> >

> > These days we hear a lot about Kalasarpa Dosha! It is said to be

> > present in any horoscope if all the planets are between Rahu and

> > Ketu! My God! What a humbug! Rahu and Ketu are actually nodes of

> > the Moon! That means they are just mathematical points without

any

> > dimensions ---therefore without any physical existence

whatsoever!

> > So according to " Vedic astrologers " even such " non-existent "

> > phenomena can make our lives miserable for which we must do some

> > upay! Do you need any other proofs for the jugglery that these

> > cheats are indulging in?

> >

> > THE ONLY EFFECTIVE REMEDY, or UPAY, THEREFORE, IS THAT WE MUST

> > REMEMBER HIM, THE ALMIGHTY, EVERY MOMENT OF OUR LIVES AND LEAVE

> > EVERY THING TO HIS DIVINE WILL!.

> >

> > Fake Brighu Samhitas and Parasharis:

> >

> > We find a Brighu Samhita or a nadi Jyotishi or Aruna Samhita

etc.

> in

> > every Muhalla these days! However, there is no mention in any of

> > the Puranas or shastras that any Rishi like Vasishtha or Garga

or

> > Brighu etc. have ever written any books on predictive astrology.

> > The Vishnu Purana by Parashara is full of astronomical

references -

> -

> > -and that also sayana i.e. the seasonal year when Mesha

sankranti

> is

> > another name of Spring Equinox and so on, but we do not find any

> > mention of any Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra there! Obviously,

it

> > is the worst concoction that can ever be had, and may be that is

> why

> > such a Parashari is the bible of " Vedic astrologers "

> >

> > India has gone downhill because of astrology and astrologers:

> >

> > In India, we have started going downhill ever since our rulers

> > started running after Jyotishis. In ancient days, during the

time

> > of the Mahabharata, it was a dharma yudha that we had to fight

> > against our own Duryodhanas but ever since the advent of

astrology

> > almost simultaneously with the invasion of Alexander the Great,

> and

> > then the " Yavana Jatakam " of Sphujidwaja and the Surya Sidhanta

of

> > Maya the Yavana (mlechha!), we had to fight outsiders! The more

> > the foreigners invaded us the more our rulers, instead of making

a

> > united effort against the invaders, started consulting

soothsayers

> > whom they called Rajajyotishis!

> >

> > Varahamihira the worst culprit:

> >

> > The maximum credit for creating such a fear psychosis of omens

and

> > ghosts and ghouls and storms and even clouds goes to

Varahamihira

> > of 5th century AD through his Brihat Samita and Brihat Jatakam

and

> > Panchasidhantika! Before venturing into the battlefield, our

> > monarchs would ask their soothsayers to prepare " narpati jaya

> > charya " and consult Brihat Samhita etc. to see whether

> > the " ketuchara " was favourable at that time or not! No wonder

with

> > such a preliminary and hopeless knowledge of astronomical facts,

> we

> > were being pushed back into dark ages by Varahamihira and his

> > followers!

> >

> > Our historical records are witness to the fact that we were

> > vanquished in every battle, whether it was with Alexander the

> Great

> > or Muhamud of Gazni or Chengiz Khan or Nadir Shah or the Moguls

or

> > finally the East India Company, thanks to the dependence of our

> > monarchs on soothsayers (Rajajyotishis, huh!) instead of the

> > principles of war strategy and statecraft as adumbrated by the

> > Vedas, the Manu and even Chanakya, who chided kings for

consulting

> > soothsayers!

> >

> > BJP the latest example:

> >

> > The fate of the BJP has not been any better than that of our

> earlier

> > monarchs by depending more on their " Vedic Jyotishis " who were

> > responsible for getting " Vedic Jyotisha (sic!) " prescribed in

> Indian

> > Universities! It is that very move that boomeranged on the party

> > and even the " Minister of astrology " did not win his own

> > parliamentary seat from Allahabad, let alone being the Union

> > Minister again. Do you need any other proofs of the fact that

> > these " Vedic Jyotishis " will make you lose your seat of power

well

> > before the appointed day just by making you advance your

elections?

> >

> > If we continue to follow the trend of our " monarchs " of having

> > blind faith in our soothsayers, then sooner than later we will

> > become Babylon of yesteryears, which is known as Iraq today!

> >

> > Kashmiri Pandits were the worst affected by their blind faith in

> > Jyotishis:

> >

> > Another reason for my revolt against the so called " Vedic

> > astrology " is that as a Kashmiri Pandit, I have more to blame

> > panchanga makers and soothsayers and their predictive gimmicks

> than

> > anything or anybody else since they never forewarned us about

any

> > calamities that were going to befall us! On the other hand, just

> to

> > prove their astrological gimmicks, they just made ---and are

still

> > making --- us celebrate all our festivals, including

> Mahashivaratri,

> > Vasanti Navratras, Ramanavami, Janmashtami and Sharadiya

navratras

> > etc. on wrong days. It is these very jyotishis, whom we had

> treated

> > as our friends, philosophers and guides, who are responsible for

> our

> > downfall as Kahsmiri Pandits, since they proved neither our

> friends,

> > nor philosophers least of all our guides! These Panchanga

> > makers/jyotishis were the first to flee from Kashmir in 1990---

> > like the king Hari Singh at the time of Pakistani raid in 1948---

 

> > since they had already made their alternate homes in safer

places

> > like Jammu and Delhi. Those Jyotishis just proved to be

Shylocks,

> > who were only interested in their Pound of flesh by way of

> Dakshinas

> > for janmapatris and matching of horoscopes -- all cheating and

> > nothing else!

> >

> > These soothsayers have such a hypnotic grip on us that initially

> > even I was brain washed to believe that the Vedas had nothing

else

> > to do excepting teaching us predictive astrology! I was so

> > convinced that it appeared that even the principle of Secondary

> > Progressions must have been exported from India to Western

> countries

> > as the principle of " A day equals a year " was mentioned in our

> > Vedas! But thank God, I woke up to the situation and could see

> > through their tricks.

> >

> > There are no Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in the Vedas:

> >

> > Leave alone predictive gimmicks, actually there are neither

rashis

> > like Mesha, Vrisha etc. nor planets like Mangal, Shani etc. in

the

> > Vedas, Upanishads, Brahmanas etc. Similarly, the Vedanga

Jyotisha,

> > the first indigenous astronomical work of 14th century BCE, just

> > tells us only as to how to calculate tithi, nakshatra and

> Uttarayana-

> > cum-Tapah-cum Magha etc. months. It does not list any Mesha etc.

> > rashis nor any planets like Mangal, Budha etc. Same is the case

> > with Yajur Jyotisha of about 11th century BCE and later Atharva

> > Jyotisha of about 5th century BCE. As such, it is really a fraud

> on

> > the Vedas being played by some charlatans to call any predictive

> > gimmicks as Vedic astrology and hail themselves as " Vedic

> > Jyotishis " . It is a crime under " The Consumer Protection Act " as

> it

> > is a misrepresentation of facts to a client and is thus a

> deficiency

> > in service.

> >

> > Our predictions in the past also could never have been correct:

> >

> > It is said that over the past about 2000 years, our ancestors

like

> > Varahamihira or his son Prithuyashas etc., could make

marvellously

> > correct predictions. THAT IS NOTHING BUT HOGWASH! Let us see

how:

> > prior to the advent of scientific astronomy into India, i.e.

about

> a

> > couple of centuries back, panchangas were based on astronomical

> > works like the Surya Sidhanta or Aryabhati or Sidhanta Shirmoani

> > etc. etc. I have prepared a software called " Mahesh " . It

> > calculates, apart from the actual tithi, nakshatra, yoga, karna

> > etc., the mean longitudes of all the planets from 10000 BCE to

> 12030

> > AD i.e. for more than 22,000 years as per the Surya Sidhanta,

> > Aryabhati or Sidhanta Shiromani etc. besides comparing them with

> the

> > longitudes as per modern astronomy. Anybody can download it

freely

> > from my discussion forum

> >

> > HinduCalendar

> >

> > Unfortunately for these jyotishis, we find that the very

> fundamental

> > arguments of these sidahntas like the Surya Sidhanta, the

> Aryabhati,

> > the Sidhanta Shiromani etc. etc. are absolutely wrong! .

> >

> > That naturally means that any panchanga based on them would also

> be

> > wrong, with the result that any horoscope prepared on the basis

of

> > those panchangas could never be correct. Thus it is impossible

for

> > any astrological predictions to have been correct in the past!

As

> > such, it is all like the famous couplet of Ghalib " yoon to hai

> > hamko janat ki haqeeqat maloom lekin; dil ke bahlane ko Ghalib

yeh

> > khayal achha hai "

> >

> > Astrology cannot be a science

> >

> > Predictive astrology is supposed to be a " science " ! What a

> > preposterous statement! When the data on which predictions were

> > based or are based these days are not correct, how can the

results

> > be correct and how can we call it a science at all?

> >

> > Stars do not affect us:

> >

> > It is said that stars affect us! It appears either these

> > astrologers have gone honkers themselves or they suppose that

the

> > whole world has really gone mad! Let us see how:

> > I am a puny human being on this small planet called earth. The

sun

> > is hundreds of thousands of times larger than the earth! And

there

> > are other stars of our nakshatra/rashichakra that are supposed

to

> > affect me individually as per the Dasha-Bhukti that is running

in

> my

> > horoscope! However, this fantastic statement has no leg to stand

> > upon since the nearest star of that Rashichakra is Shravana! And

> do

> > you know its distance from me? It is seventeen light years! And

it

> > is several times larger than our sun! In other words, if that

star

> > wants i.e. Shravana wants to " affect " me individually, it will

> take

> > it at least seventeen years to do so even if that " effect "

travels

> > at the speed of light! And by then, my Rahu or Shani or whatever

> > Dasha it may be must have been over! Then how can such a star

> which

> > is trillions of times larger than me send its rays in a

> concentrated

> > form just to haunt me at a particular point of time! Can you

> > imagine what type of laughing stocks we are making of ourselves

by

> > believing in such hocus pocus!

> > Similarly, the next nearest star of our Rashichakra is Swati !

It

> > is away by 26 light years from me

> >

> > and is again several times larger than our sun!!

> >

> > It thus defies imagination as to how we can call astrology a

> science

> > or how it can be said that the " Stars affect us " .

> >

> > Patri Melapak (Horoscope Matching) is not warranted by shastras

> nor

> > astrology books:

> >

> > Now coming to the fad called Patri Melapak i.e. horoscope

> > matching! This fad is the rage of the day! You will be surprised

> to

> > know that none of our shastras, whether the Manusmriti or the

> > Ramayana or the Mahabharata, leave alone the Vedas, have

anything

> to

> > do with Patri Melapak even by mistake! We do not find any

> instances

> > that any Vedic Rishi was addicted to such a fad, since may be

then

> > most of them would still have been looking for a " suitable

Patri "

> > for melapak! Not to speak of Dharma shastras, there is no

mention

> of

> > this type of a malady in any of the astrology books like the so

> > called Parashari, or Mansagari or Phala Deepika or Jataka

Parijata

> > or any other work! It appears to be a creation of the jyotishis

of

> > over the last one hundred years or so. Aleberuni, who visited

> India

> > in 1030 AD and recorded quite faithfully all his experiences

about

> > Jyotisha and other things in India also has not mentioned

anything

> > of any " Melapak " in his work!

> >

> > " All India Calendar Reform Committee " :

> >

> > Summing up, as we have just seen, not only are we subjected to

non-

> > existent fear psychosis like Kalasarpa Dosha and Patri Melapak

> etc.

> > but we are compelled to celebrate all our festivals on worng

> > days. There are quite a few people who agree with my point of

> > view that these days we are celebrating Pitra Amavasya on the

day

> of

> > Dipavali and marriages during Pitra-Paksha! Similarly, we never

> > celebrate Makar Sankranti on correct days i.e. December 21/22

but

> we

> > celebrate it on January 14. We also celebrate Vaishakhi on April

> 14

> > instead of the day of Spring Equinox i.e., March 21 or so. This

> has

> > been all because of the so called " Vedic astrology "

> >

> > To put our festivals back on the right track, I made quite a few

> > representations to the Hon'ble President of India, the Prime

> > Minister of India, various ministries besides the Positional

> > Astronomy Centre at Calcutta, who publish our Rashtriya

Panchanga.

> > I also made similar representations to all the reverred

> > Shankaracharyas of all the six peethas, besides other saints and

> > Mahatmas, but sorry to say, there has been absolutely no

response

> > from any quarter!

> >

> > We have now formed an " All India Calendar Reform Committee " and

> are

> > enrolling members for the same. Those interested can log on to

> > HinduCalendar for entering into

> > discussions regarding the same. You can also get a list of

correct

> > dates of festivals for 2006 and 2007 from that forum. As an

> > alternative, you can get in touch with me whenever you want to

for

> > any further clarifications.

> >

> > Thank you very much for listening to this " exhortation "

> > against " Vedic astrology " and the efforts I am making to

> streamline

> > our calendars. Om tat sat

> > brahmarpanam astu

> >

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required.

> >

 

> Forgot the famous last words? Access your message archive online.

 

>

[Guest guest]

Gajendraji, Then you should have not quoted AK Kaul. Whether Jyotish is a part of Vedas & or other texts, is of little consequense. It is here to stay. What point you want to prove!!! Do you want to prove that Astrology has no basis!!!!, If you are on the path of becoming a Great Yogi & you have such firm faith in the almighty, then why do you need a Gemstone or a Rudraksha. Inspite of you, Despite of you ( & Mr. AK Kaul) Jyotish is & shall remain a bonafide Veda-Anga. I guess Mr. Kaul saw Lage Raho Munna Bhai, before giving this foolish speech. Gajendra <gajendravispute wrote: Dear Sir,I already mentioned I do not agree all the views of Mr kaul.My point is not to discuss Varahmira and other text.My point is whether Astrology has any Vedic reference.And when I mean Vedic I mean only Vedas (Four vedas) and Upanishdas(12 main). Rule is "Shruti is a praman". At times when smruti is not supporting shruti then disregard smruti. I just want to know Vedic reference for the astrology (No puranas please) ThanksGajendrasacred-objects , Abhishek Dutta <benarsibabu wrote:>> Dear

Gajendra,> > A Brainstorming session should not malign a person as illustrious as Varahamira. That said should Jyotish be blamed for its commercialisation!!! The clients as well as quaks jyotishi's should alone be blamed. The River Ganges flows illuminating one & all, it is only us humans who pollute & violate her.> > That said Mr. AK Kaul is wrong to bring God into all this, I once met a person who had claimed to read the Srimad Bhagvad 1008 times over. He read it but did not imbibe what was written, then what's the use.!!! Mr. Kaul's credentials are questionable. As are his intention which are amply visible in his half cooked allegations about Jyotish.> > A genuine astrologer need not be a Yogi, but he surely must be a devotee...> > If i ever run into this Kaul fellow surely he will carry a better understanding, regarding the class of Sri. Varahamira. For

one who cannot control the calendar of his own life, surely he can set the cosmic calendar right!!! > > Gajendra <gajendravispute wrote:> Dear Abhishek ,> I read this article I find some of things logical (Not everything) > and thought to share will all. You have to agree that there no > reference of astrology and any guidelines in Vedas and Upnishadas.> There might be some Pouranic (Puran) reference.> Astrology has become more Materialistic centric rather than > spiritual. Astrologer can't predict you future but a Yogi can! > So be a Yogi surrender to god and once you are enlightened you can > see everything you do not need any astrology. > For me I donot go to astrologer for everything. Not even once I went.> I just believe that you need to analyze chart once and wear correct > Gems or Rudraksha. ( I believe in Gem powers and

Rudraksha.)> Rest all is you Karma and devotion to the God. > > I just wanted to have some brain storming discussion on this that is > why I share this in the group. Take it in a positive way.> > Thanks> Gajendra> > sacred-objects , Abhishek Dutta > <benarsibabu@> wrote:> >> > Mr. Vispute,> > > > Jyotish is a bonafide Veda-Anga, even if Mr. AK Kaul stands on > the top of Everest & proclaims this most profound message, it shall > remain so.> > > > Mr. Kaul has'nt got his history notes right, Varahamira was not > an astrologer, he was firstly one of the most illumined Mathematical > Genius. Infact the branch of Trignometery owes its very existence to > this great Kashmiri Genius. History has it

that only one > mathematician was more brilliant than him, Sriman Bhaskara II, the > founder of Diffrential Calculus. Now imagine these people gave us > the very platform on which technology exists, & to call them > Charlatans & Tricksters is a scam in itself.> > > > Sri. Varahamira's second proficiency was Astronomy, infact he > was the first person in modern history to accurately predict > eclipse's. Infact his astronomical classic, Pancha-Siddhantika, is > regarded as the most independent, original & accurate compilation in > modern astronomy.> > > > Sri. Vaharamira, was also a unparalleled astrologer, His > compilation, Brihat Parashara Hora, remains the only accepatable, > unrivaled Astrological Treastise. Infact with apologies to Muni > Parashara, he became so proficient in this artistic science that he > is regarded second

only to Narada, in terms of proficiency in this > science. It must be noted that Varahamira never made a living out of > Astrology, so in his defence i must say Mr. Kaul's submission is a > very shallow one.> > > > Yes, there are Charlatans & Scoundrels in the field of Jyotish, > but that does not mean Mr. Kaul can malign the name of this Hallowed > Science. I maintain that intution remains the most important aspect > in jyotish & 90% astrologers don't have a clue because they pursue > materialistic use for this science. Pure-Minded, Devotee > Astrologers, who don't price their services, are blessed with Veda > Vision (intution) & they alone are fit to be tagged as Jyotishi's.> > > > If you know Mr. Kaul on a personal basis, & he has such a > rationalist, scientific bent of mind, let him give us the > mathematical exposition of

this statement. Even you try it, if you > are unable to do so, do us one favour, don't become a courier for > such nonsense. > > > > "Supreme which is Infinite, does not suffer diminution when > creating the world out of Himself, or gain addition when the created > word attains Laya (merger) in Him. For, if the addition of even a > fraction can make a difference to the infinite, then it could not > have been infinite before such addition. Similarly infinite cannot > become less than the infinite when anything is taken away from it. > The Infinite is poorna, full and limitless Supreme. The Prapancha > (Universe) which is infinitely varied, is also limitless Supreme, > the limitless Supreme will remain intact. Therefore, if this Poornam > ( the infinitely varied form of the objective Prapancha) is taken > away from that Poornam (the subject which is Infinite), that

> Poornam, the subject Infinite, alone will remain..."> > > > Remember a Mathematical Equation, not a philosophical one. If, > Mr. Kaul & you can solve this equation, you both shall become > genuine Vedic Astrologers... > > > > With Warm Regards to Sriman Avtar Kishen Kaul > > > > Gajendra <gajendravispute@> wrote:> > The following speech was delivered at Rotary Club, West > Delhi, in > > September 2006. It will give you all the information as to > > how "scientific" and "Vedic" astrology is:> > > > Om tat sat brahmarpanamastu!> > Om Brahmanandam Parama sukhadam kevalam gyan moortim, > dwandvateetam > > gagana sadrisham tat-tvam asyadi lakshyam > > ekam nityam vimalam achalamsarva dhee sakshi bhootam, bhavateetam > > triguna rahitam shree gurum tam namami >

> "Vedic Astrology" - the greatest fraud on the Vedas!> > Dear friends. Good evening to everybody!> > > > I feel highly honoured to have been invited by Shri Ajay Bhasin > for > > sharing my views about astrology and related topics with respected > > personalities assembled here. As most of us already know, we call > > these predictive gimmicks as "Vedic astrology" these days. > > > > When I was asked by Shri Bhasin about the heading of my talk, I > had > > thought of making it as "Vedic Astrology – the greatest fraud on > the > > Vedas". On second thoughts, fearing that it would be too explosive > > a heading, I made it a sugar coated bitter pill by changing it > > to "Do we celebrate our festivals on correct days?".> > > > Well, actually, both i.e., the fraud known as "Vedic astrology" >

> and "our celebrating all our festivals on wrong days" are inter-> > related. > > > > Let me start with "Vedic astrology" - as to why I call it a fraud!> > > > There is hardly anyone in India, who does not want to know as to > > when his "sade–sati" will start or end or as to which Dasha-> > antardasha he is running and when that will end etc. etc. even if > he > > does not know ABC of jyotisha. I have gone through all those pangs > > myself and made a thorough study of all the astrological works > > besides a lot of astronomical books! I studied Western system of > > astrology also and had become a sort of famous astrologer, though > my > > predictions were as correct as anybody else's i.e. hardly 50%. > > However, this is a secret that no "jyotishi" shares with anybody --> > > that his/her

predictions are hardly more correct than fifty per > > cent, whatever logic or Ayanamsha he/she may use! When I analyzed > > the reasons for such a dismal rate of success, the conclusions > were > > startling! And I am keeping those very conclusions before you!> > > > Before proceeding further, I must, however, say something about > > myself since you are well within your rights to ask me as to > > what "qualifications" I have to demolish astrology that is being > > practised over the last several centuries, nay even millennia!> > > > My credentials> > > > Though I am not laying any claims to being a scholar, however, I > > have actually studied all the four Vedas in original "archaic" > > Sanskrit with their different "Bhashyas", besides the various > > Brahmanas like Shatapatha, Aitreya, Tatiriya etc. etc. I have

> > studied, (in original Sanskrit!) about two hundred all the > important > > Upanishads as well! I have also gone through both the epics viz. > the > > Valmiki Ramayana and the Mahabharata --- in Sanskrit and from > cover > > to cover, besides Adhyatma Ramayana, Ramacharitamanasa etc. etc.! > > There is hardly any Purana whether the Bhagavata, Shivapurana, > > Vishnu, Narada, Devi, Varaha, Matsya and Vishnudharmotara etc. > etc. > > that I have not gone through in original Sanskrit. I have also > > studied exhaustively all the ancient astronomical works like the > > Vedanga Jyotisha, Panchasidhantika, Surya Sidhanta, Arya Bhati, > > Sidhanta Shiromani etc. etc. To crown it all, I was not a born > > renegade against the established traditions. On the other hand, I > > was initially "hypnotized" by "Vedic astrology" and

"panchangas" > > myself and there is hardly any "text-book" of astrology either in > > Sanskrit or Urdu or English or Hindi that I have not studied with > > due reverence, as if I was studying the Vedas! > > > > Having established my credentials thus, I CAN DECLARE IT WITHOUT > ANY > > HESITATION AND WITH ALL THE EMPHASIS AT MY COMMAND, THAT THERE IS > > ABSOLUTELY NO PREDICTIVE ASTROLOGY IN ANY OF THE VEDAS, > UPANISHADAS > > OR BRAHMANAS. There are, however, some references to some odd > types > > of predictions in some of the Puranas and the epics and therefore > > calling it as really a post-Vedic astrology is more correct. There > > is a rider there also, and that is that according to these > > scriptures, Makara Sankranti i.e. Pongal is nothing but a synonym > of > > Uttarayana (the

shortest day of the year) i.e. Winter Solstice and > > as everybody knows, it can take place these days only on or around > > December 21 every year. Thus the Uttarayana-cum-Makar Sankranti > > that we are celebrating now-a-days on January 14 is absolutely > wrong > > and does not have any authority from any shastra or even modern > > astronomy. Similarly, the Vaishakhi that is being celebrated on > > April 14 or so also is wrong since Mesha Sankranti is nothing but > > Vishuva (Vernal Equinox) or Vasant Sampat and it cannot take place > > on any day other than March 21/22, when the day and night are > > equal. Actually these Makara etc. sankrantis were known as Tapah > > etc. months during the Vedic period as there are no rashis in the > > Vedas but just six seasons and Madhu, Madhava etc. twelve months. > > As such,

we are celebrating all our fasts, fairs and muhurtas on > > wrong days -- thanks to "Vedic astrologers" and their "Vedic > > astrology". > > > > The first and foremost thing I learnt from our shastras is that no > > system of predictions has any sanction either from the Vedas or > > even Puranas least of all our dharmashastras etc. since all our > > shastras admonish us from consulting "nakshatra jeevis" so much so > > that the Manusmriti calls these nakshatrasoochis as outcastes and > > not fit to sit in any sabha of learned people.> > > > Those who can foresee our future do not reveal it to us beforehand:> > > > All the Ramayanas, whether Valmiki or Adhyatma or > Ramacharitamanasa > > etc. etc. say that before deciding about the coronation of Bhagwan > > Rama, Dashratha wanted his guru Vasishtha

to confirm the suitable > > muhurta for that function. It was on the advice of Vasishtha Muni > > that Dasharatha decided to anoint Rama as the Yuvraja the very > next > > day, as it was "Tishya" i.e. Pushya nakshata then. From this > > anecdote, it is clear that either Vasishtha Muni did not know as > to > > what was going to happen to Dasharatha by declaring Bhagwan Rama > as > > a crown-prince or Vasishtha kept quiet deliberately since he did > not > > want to interfere in the divine dispensation!> > > > Obviously, being the son of Brahmaji and a highly exalted yogi as > > well as a jnyani, Vasishtha-muni could peep into past as well as > > future. It means that even if some exalted souls can foresee as to > > what is going to happen, they do not reveal our "bhavishya" before > > hand, unlike

some of the astrologers of today, who masquerade > > as "Parasharas" and "Vamadevas" to tell us even our past and > future > > janmas just by glancing at our birth-charts, even if those charts > > are wrong!> > > > The Gita is said to be the gist of all our shastras. When Arjuna > > expressed his doubt by saying naitadvidmah katarnno gareeyo, yadva > > jayema yadi va no jayeyuh "I do not know what is good for me nor > do > > I know whether we will win or the Kauravas will win the war", > > Bhagwan Krishna neither asked him to consult some soothsayer nor > did > > He tell him to wear some ruby! He just advised Arjuna "hato va > > prapsyasi swargam jitva va bokshyase maheem" i.e. "You must fight. > > If you get killed in the war, you will go to the heavens and if > you > > win it you will be the lord of the

whole world".> > > > Thus all it boils down to is the fact that those who know > (including > > Lord Krishna Himself!) as to what is going to happen and when do > not > > divulge such "secrets" before hand to us.> > > > Remedial measures are a farce:> > > > Almost all the jyotishis suggest one or the other remedial measure > > to their clients, and mostly these are gems like diamond or ruby > or > > sapphire etc. etc. What is surprising is that we have become so > > obsessed with Jyotish that we forget the entire itihasa of our > past!> > > > (i) If these gems are that efficacious, why was then Dasharatha > > not suggested some "ruby" or "coral" to ward off the evil Dasha > that > > was going to kill him when Rama would leave for the forests? Well, > > because our Rishis

did not believe in such gimmicks at all!> > > > (ii) Bhagwan Krishna was born in a prison --- I wonder why He > > could not use some "sapphire" to be born in a palace!> > > > (iii) Vasudeva and Devaki---the parents of Bhagwan Krishna--- were > > in chains when He was born! It is said that Lord Krishna was a > > complete – 16 kala sampoorna --- divine incarnation of Vishnu and > > was thus really Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient! But in > > spite of His Omniscience, Omnipotence and Omnipresence, Lord > Krishna > > could not relieve the miseries of his parents, Vasudeva and > Devaki, > > who had to remain in chains till Krishna killed Kansa!> > > > What does it demonstrate? Just the fact that if the Omniscient, > > Omnipresent and Omnipotent Krishna could not relieve the miseries > of > >

His own father or mother before the appointed time, how can a ruby > > or a sapphire---or some Mangala or Shani yagya--- remove all our > > miseries or fulfil all our ambitions? Obviously, we are being > taken > > for a ride by such Jyotishis!> > > > iv) Then not in the distant past, Smti Indira Gandhi would run > after > > astrologers for knowing her future. She wore a rare and original > > ekamukhi rudraksha, which only either the Maharaja of Nepal had or > > she was wearing! It is said that some top-notch jyotishis had > > suggested that rudraksha to her! Ironically, both the King of > Nepal > > as well Mrs. Indira Gandhi were assassinated "by the people" > > they "had trusted"----ekamukhi rudraksha not withstanding! > > What does it prove? That we should not be hoodwinked by > soothsayers!> > >

> v) Then again a well known Tantrik of yore---highly respected by > the > > then PM--- is out on bail, not by dint of his "Tantra-Kriya" but > > because of some legal loopholes in FERA!> > Similarly, Dhirendra Brahmachari, another high profile "Tantrik", > > met with an accident in the plane he was flying himself! If he > > could not see his own death looming large how could he forewarn > > others!> > > > What does that prove? Obviously, it warns us against relying on > any > > soothsayers, especially if they call themselves "Vedic Jyotishis" > > since they are taking us for a ride literally. > > > > Kalasarpa Dosha -- a non-existent fear psychosis:> > > > These days we hear a lot about Kalasarpa Dosha! It is said to be > > present in any horoscope if all the planets are between Rahu and >

> Ketu! My God! What a humbug! Rahu and Ketu are actually nodes of > > the Moon! That means they are just mathematical points without any > > dimensions ---therefore without any physical existence whatsoever! > > So according to "Vedic astrologers" even such "non-existent" > > phenomena can make our lives miserable for which we must do some > > upay! Do you need any other proofs for the jugglery that these > > cheats are indulging in?> > > > THE ONLY EFFECTIVE REMEDY, or UPAY, THEREFORE, IS THAT WE MUST > > REMEMBER HIM, THE ALMIGHTY, EVERY MOMENT OF OUR LIVES AND LEAVE > > EVERY THING TO HIS DIVINE WILL!. > > > > Fake Brighu Samhitas and Parasharis:> > > > We find a Brighu Samhita or a nadi Jyotishi or Aruna Samhita etc. > in > > every Muhalla these days! However, there is no mention in any of >

> the Puranas or shastras that any Rishi like Vasishtha or Garga or > > Brighu etc. have ever written any books on predictive astrology. > > The Vishnu Purana by Parashara is full of astronomical references -> -> > -and that also sayana i.e. the seasonal year when Mesha sankranti > is > > another name of Spring Equinox and so on, but we do not find any > > mention of any Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra there! Obviously, it > > is the worst concoction that can ever be had, and may be that is > why > > such a Parashari is the bible of "Vedic astrologers"> > > > India has gone downhill because of astrology and astrologers:> > > > In India, we have started going downhill ever since our rulers > > started running after Jyotishis. In ancient days, during the time > > of the Mahabharata, it was a dharma yudha

that we had to fight > > against our own Duryodhanas but ever since the advent of astrology > > almost simultaneously with the invasion of Alexander the Great, > and > > then the "Yavana Jatakam" of Sphujidwaja and the Surya Sidhanta of > > Maya the Yavana (mlechha!), we had to fight outsiders! The more > > the foreigners invaded us the more our rulers, instead of making a > > united effort against the invaders, started consulting soothsayers > > whom they called Rajajyotishis! > > > > Varahamihira the worst culprit:> > > > The maximum credit for creating such a fear psychosis of omens and > > ghosts and ghouls and storms and even clouds goes to Varahamihira > > of 5th century AD through his Brihat Samita and Brihat Jatakam and > > Panchasidhantika! Before venturing into the battlefield, our >

> monarchs would ask their soothsayers to prepare "narpati jaya > > charya" and consult Brihat Samhita etc. to see whether > > the "ketuchara" was favourable at that time or not! No wonder with > > such a preliminary and hopeless knowledge of astronomical facts, > we > > were being pushed back into dark ages by Varahamihira and his > > followers!> > > > Our historical records are witness to the fact that we were > > vanquished in every battle, whether it was with Alexander the > Great > > or Muhamud of Gazni or Chengiz Khan or Nadir Shah or the Moguls or > > finally the East India Company, thanks to the dependence of our > > monarchs on soothsayers (Rajajyotishis, huh!) instead of the > > principles of war strategy and statecraft as adumbrated by the > > Vedas, the Manu and even Chanakya, who chided kings for

consulting > > soothsayers!> > > > BJP the latest example:> > > > The fate of the BJP has not been any better than that of our > earlier > > monarchs by depending more on their "Vedic Jyotishis" who were > > responsible for getting "Vedic Jyotisha (sic!)" prescribed in > Indian > > Universities! It is that very move that boomeranged on the party > > and even the "Minister of astrology" did not win his own > > parliamentary seat from Allahabad, let alone being the Union > > Minister again. Do you need any other proofs of the fact that > > these "Vedic Jyotishis" will make you lose your seat of power well > > before the appointed day just by making you advance your elections?> > > > If we continue to follow the trend of our "monarchs" of having > > blind faith in our soothsayers, then sooner

than later we will > > become Babylon of yesteryears, which is known as Iraq today!> > > > Kashmiri Pandits were the worst affected by their blind faith in > > Jyotishis:> > > > Another reason for my revolt against the so called "Vedic > > astrology" is that as a Kashmiri Pandit, I have more to blame > > panchanga makers and soothsayers and their predictive gimmicks > than > > anything or anybody else since they never forewarned us about any > > calamities that were going to befall us! On the other hand, just > to > > prove their astrological gimmicks, they just made ---and are still > > making --- us celebrate all our festivals, including > Mahashivaratri, > > Vasanti Navratras, Ramanavami, Janmashtami and Sharadiya navratras > > etc. on wrong days. It is these very jyotishis, whom we had >

treated > > as our friends, philosophers and guides, who are responsible for > our > > downfall as Kahsmiri Pandits, since they proved neither our > friends, > > nor philosophers least of all our guides! These Panchanga > > makers/jyotishis were the first to flee from Kashmir in 1990--- > > like the king Hari Singh at the time of Pakistani raid in 1948---> > since they had already made their alternate homes in safer places > > like Jammu and Delhi. Those Jyotishis just proved to be Shylocks, > > who were only interested in their Pound of flesh by way of > Dakshinas > > for janmapatris and matching of horoscopes -- all cheating and > > nothing else!> > > > These soothsayers have such a hypnotic grip on us that initially > > even I was brain washed to believe that the Vedas had nothing else > > to do

excepting teaching us predictive astrology! I was so > > convinced that it appeared that even the principle of Secondary > > Progressions must have been exported from India to Western > countries > > as the principle of "A day equals a year" was mentioned in our > > Vedas! But thank God, I woke up to the situation and could see > > through their tricks.> > > > There are no Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in the Vedas: > > > > Leave alone predictive gimmicks, actually there are neither rashis > > like Mesha, Vrisha etc. nor planets like Mangal, Shani etc. in the > > Vedas, Upanishads, Brahmanas etc. Similarly, the Vedanga Jyotisha, > > the first indigenous astronomical work of 14th century BCE, just > > tells us only as to how to calculate tithi, nakshatra and > Uttarayana-> > cum-Tapah-cum Magha etc. months. It does

not list any Mesha etc. > > rashis nor any planets like Mangal, Budha etc. Same is the case > > with Yajur Jyotisha of about 11th century BCE and later Atharva > > Jyotisha of about 5th century BCE. As such, it is really a fraud > on > > the Vedas being played by some charlatans to call any predictive > > gimmicks as Vedic astrology and hail themselves as "Vedic > > Jyotishis". It is a crime under "The Consumer Protection Act" as > it > > is a misrepresentation of facts to a client and is thus a > deficiency > > in service. > > > > Our predictions in the past also could never have been correct:> > > > It is said that over the past about 2000 years, our ancestors like > > Varahamihira or his son Prithuyashas etc., could make marvellously > > correct predictions. THAT IS NOTHING BUT HOGWASH! Let us see

how: > > prior to the advent of scientific astronomy into India, i.e. about > a > > couple of centuries back, panchangas were based on astronomical > > works like the Surya Sidhanta or Aryabhati or Sidhanta Shirmoani > > etc. etc. I have prepared a software called "Mahesh". It > > calculates, apart from the actual tithi, nakshatra, yoga, karna > > etc., the mean longitudes of all the planets from 10000 BCE to > 12030 > > AD i.e. for more than 22,000 years as per the Surya Sidhanta, > > Aryabhati or Sidhanta Shiromani etc. besides comparing them with > the > > longitudes as per modern astronomy. Anybody can download it freely > > from my discussion forum> > > > HinduCalendar> > > > Unfortunately for

these jyotishis, we find that the very > fundamental > > arguments of these sidahntas like the Surya Sidhanta, the > Aryabhati, > > the Sidhanta Shiromani etc. etc. are absolutely wrong! . > > > > That naturally means that any panchanga based on them would also > be > > wrong, with the result that any horoscope prepared on the basis of > > those panchangas could never be correct. Thus it is impossible for > > any astrological predictions to have been correct in the past! As > > such, it is all like the famous couplet of Ghalib "yoon to hai > > hamko janat ki haqeeqat maloom lekin; dil ke bahlane ko Ghalib yeh > > khayal achha hai"> > > > Astrology cannot be a science > > > > Predictive astrology is supposed to be a "science"! What a > > preposterous statement! When the data on which

predictions were > > based or are based these days are not correct, how can the results > > be correct and how can we call it a science at all? > > > > Stars do not affect us:> > > > It is said that stars affect us! It appears either these > > astrologers have gone honkers themselves or they suppose that the > > whole world has really gone mad! Let us see how:> > I am a puny human being on this small planet called earth. The sun > > is hundreds of thousands of times larger than the earth! And there > > are other stars of our nakshatra/rashichakra that are supposed to > > affect me individually as per the Dasha-Bhukti that is running in > my > > horoscope! However, this fantastic statement has no leg to stand > > upon since the nearest star of that Rashichakra is Shravana! And > do >

> you know its distance from me? It is seventeen light years! And it > > is several times larger than our sun! In other words, if that star > > wants i.e. Shravana wants to "affect" me individually, it will > take > > it at least seventeen years to do so even if that "effect" travels > > at the speed of light! And by then, my Rahu or Shani or whatever > > Dasha it may be must have been over! Then how can such a star > which > > is trillions of times larger than me send its rays in a > concentrated > > form just to haunt me at a particular point of time! Can you > > imagine what type of laughing stocks we are making of ourselves by > > believing in such hocus pocus!> > Similarly, the next nearest star of our Rashichakra is Swati ! It > > is away by 26 light years from me > > > > and is again several

times larger than our sun!!> > > > It thus defies imagination as to how we can call astrology a > science > > or how it can be said that the "Stars affect us".> > > > Patri Melapak (Horoscope Matching) is not warranted by shastras > nor > > astrology books:> > > > Now coming to the fad called Patri Melapak i.e. horoscope > > matching! This fad is the rage of the day! You will be surprised > to > > know that none of our shastras, whether the Manusmriti or the > > Ramayana or the Mahabharata, leave alone the Vedas, have anything > to > > do with Patri Melapak even by mistake! We do not find any > instances > > that any Vedic Rishi was addicted to such a fad, since may be then > > most of them would still have been looking for a "suitable Patri" > > for melapak! Not to speak of

Dharma shastras, there is no mention > of > > this type of a malady in any of the astrology books like the so > > called Parashari, or Mansagari or Phala Deepika or Jataka Parijata > > or any other work! It appears to be a creation of the jyotishis of > > over the last one hundred years or so. Aleberuni, who visited > India > > in 1030 AD and recorded quite faithfully all his experiences about > > Jyotisha and other things in India also has not mentioned anything > > of any "Melapak" in his work!> > > > "All India Calendar Reform Committee":> > > > Summing up, as we have just seen, not only are we subjected to non-> > existent fear psychosis like Kalasarpa Dosha and Patri Melapak > etc. > > but we are compelled to celebrate all our festivals on worng > > days. There are quite a few people

who agree with my point of > > view that these days we are celebrating Pitra Amavasya on the day > of > > Dipavali and marriages during Pitra-Paksha! Similarly, we never > > celebrate Makar Sankranti on correct days i.e. December 21/22 but > we > > celebrate it on January 14. We also celebrate Vaishakhi on April > 14 > > instead of the day of Spring Equinox i.e., March 21 or so. This > has > > been all because of the so called "Vedic astrology"> > > > To put our festivals back on the right track, I made quite a few > > representations to the Hon'ble President of India, the Prime > > Minister of India, various ministries besides the Positional > > Astronomy Centre at Calcutta, who publish our Rashtriya Panchanga. > > I also made similar representations to all the reverred > > Shankaracharyas of all the six

peethas, besides other saints and > > Mahatmas, but sorry to say, there has been absolutely no response > > from any quarter!> > > > We have now formed an "All India Calendar Reform Committee" and > are > > enrolling members for the same. Those interested can log on to > > HinduCalendar for entering into > > discussions regarding the same. You can also get a list of correct > > dates of festivals for 2006 and 2007 from that forum. As an > > alternative, you can get in touch with me whenever you want to for > > any further clarifications.> > > > Thank you very much for listening to this "exhortation" > > against "Vedic astrology" and the efforts I am making to > streamline > > our calendars. Om tat sat

> > brahmarpanam astu> > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. > >> > > > > > > > Forgot the famous last words? Access your message archive online. >

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