nice reddish gomedh of around 380 carats

October 22, 2007

I was wondering about the statement, " I had a nice reddish gomedh of around 380

carats in sqare gut. The inclusions were clearly yelling that it was a gomedh.

Yet the esteemed lab in Bombay gave me a certificate of a Pyrope. "

You say you had a Gomeda. Do you mean Hessonite? Or Orange Zircon? If the lab

gave ID of Pyrope then are they wrong? If they are right then you never had a

Gomeda to start with. If they are wrong then you should explain to them their

mistake. Or get another lab report that is correct.

Also, yelling " inclusions " are usually *bad flaws* that might disqualify any

gem.

Question: Pyrope OR Gomeda? Jyotish quality?

Best wishes,

Richard

> >

> > I have been in and out of gems for over 10 years now and I too have some

very nasty

> experiences.

> >

> > Custom Officers in India are one bunch of people who dont fear the effects

of

> accumalating disastrous Karma. Now and then they have troubled me every time I

am

> importing gems. Recently they sealed my consignment of nigerian emeralds.

Charged

me

> 25% duty even after I bribed them lest they would have disappeared.

> >

> > Gem traders in India. I honestly cant decide if they are more dishonest or

greedy.

And

> gem labs....I wouldnt trust GIA since even they have been in cotroversies

regarding

> grading of diamonds. I had a nice reddish gomedh of around 380 carats in sqare

gut.

The

> inclusions were clearly yelling that it was a gomedh. Yet the esteemed lab in

Bombay

gave

> me a certificate of a Pyrope. Disaster! I did not get a good price for it

since the buyer

> insisted on a certificate.

> >

> > However there are traders who have been in business for generations. Time

and

again I

> have found them trustworthy. They know trust means continued business. Bangkok

has

> been notorious for fushing berylium infused stones in the market. Some

elements have

> made huge money on these in India selling gullible folks stones for thousands

of dollars

> when they are worth a few pennies.

> >

> > In Gujarati we have a saying that Crows are black around the world (kagda

badhe

kala).

> If you have money to spend wether in India, Bangkok or Europe I would

recommend

> caution. Buy gems only from well known shops or buy it from people you know

personally.

> Its very hard to make money while one triffle and you have lost a fortune. I

dont think

that

> one must generalise on Gem Dealers in India or overseas.

> >

> > In my opinion discretion is also a better part of bargain.

> >

> > Best Regards,

> >

> > Jay

> >

> > Richard Shaw-Brown <rsbj66@> wrote:

> > I don't think this was a condemnation of all gem labs in India.

Just a warning

> about trusting the independant labs. Labs associated with Institutions like

Universities

are

> the best choice.

> >

> > As far as the question of cheats in India, all I can say is India is the

only country where

> we cannot send our products, because Indian customs officers are about 99.9%

cheats.

We

> have tried to send but have been cheated every time. If you can find an honest

Indian

> custom officer they should make him Jagad Guru of Bharat.

> >

> > Again, 95% of Lakshmi Shank dealers in India are cheats fraudulently selling

Lighting

> Whelk shells (fraud). So what to speak of gems...

> >

> > In Bangkok you only get cheated if you visit " tourist traps " . Bangkok is a

much better

> source of fine gems than anywhere in India. The best lab here is Gemological

Institute of

> Thailand (GIT) part of the University here, 2nd best is AIGS (also a school).

> >

> > But I have no doubt that Sri Menon is an honest man. And many other Indian's

I have

> known as well. So the Issue with labs is to go with the recognized labs only

unless you

are

> sure of your supplier.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Richard

> >

> > sacred-objects , Kochu Menon <kochu1@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Thank you for the information. But do you really think " ALL " labs in India

are fraud?

> Isn't

> > there ONE Indian who can be honest? Wow!! what a country of cheats!! 1.3

Billion of

> them.

> > >

> > > And I was under the impression that Bangkok is the fraud centre in gem

trade

where if

> > you buy at one shop and go back one hour later, after realising you have

been

cheated,

> > the shop will have another name or would have disappeared altogether? Maybe

it is a

> > mistake? ALL jewellers in Bangkok are 100% honest with money back guarentee

anytime

> > any place? That also is a very interesting information.

> > >

> > > So you are suggesting that Indians do not buy gems from India but must buy

from

> > Thailand?

> > > From whom in Thailand please? Any recommendations?Menon

> > >

> > > sacred-objects@: benarsibabu@: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:24:55 +0100Subject:

> > Gem Identification Lab's in India; Buyers Beware

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > Gem Testing is a highly scientific & specialized job. Infact along-with a

discerning

> eye,

> > the Gemologist should be a individual of high integrity. As the stakes

involved are

> indeed

> > high at times.

> > >

> > > To my utter dismay I find that majority of Indian Gem Testing Labs, lack

the state of

> the

> > art equipment, trained personnel & off-course the integrity to give accurate

reports.

> > Jewellers / Dealers enjoying clout leave no stone unturned in getting

fabricated

reports.

> > >

> > > There is a leading Gem-Importer in Jaipur, who imported tons!!! of Mong-Su

&

> > Madagascar Glass-Filled Rubies in 2000 & cheated gullible buyers. The

material in its

> top-

> > quality range sold for 2000 U$ for a 5 carat ruby & believe me it was really

good. In

> > connivance with some key wholesellers the material was dumped in the Indian

Retail

> > Segment. By 2005 when Gem Labs came to know about the treatment, there was

> material

> > worth tens of crores in the trade. & The Indian Traders were in no mood to

book

losses.

> > They dumped the material further to consumers, off-couse in connivance with

gem-

> labs.

> > >

> > > Gem Labs in India, do not have a mandatory disclosure of Heat Treatment,

unless

> > otherwise specified. So if Any Jeweller or Gem- Retailer shows you a

certificate of say

> > Sapphire Stone class, it will mention, " Natural Sapphire " , but this does not

constitute

> that

> > the sapphire is unheated.

> > >

> > > Indian Sites which deal in Jyotish Gems & have displayed the certificate

of the gem

> being

> > sold, check on the certificate, it only mentions " Natural Sapphire " , with no

comment

as

> to

> > whether it is heated or unheated.

> > >

> > > Most of the Labs buckle when you insist on Heat Treatment Determination,

the

> > gemologist will first say its' impossible to make out. If you insist further

he will take

you

> to

> > a corner & tell you that, he shall tell you orally but would not write it on

the

certificate.

> > Further he shall elaborate that 99% sapphires are heated and /or treated, so

it is no

big

> > deal whether the one you have brought is heated or not. & Do you know why he

is

> telling

> > you this. Because otherwise the Jeweller his Mai-Bap would be displeased.

> > >

> > > If there is a gem-lab in Asia which can truly be relied upon for the high

caliber of

it's

> > Gemologist, State of the Art Equipment & High Standards of its Integrity, it

is AIGS,

> > www.aigsthailand.com.

> > >

> > > So my dear forum members, if you are investing a sizeable chunk of your

hard

earned

> > money in procuring Jyotish-Quality Gems, its advisable to get the gem tested

from

the

> > best in business.

> > >

> > > Other leading Gem-Labs in Asia;

> > >

> > > Tokyo Gem Laboratory, Bangkok &

> > > The Gems and Jewelry Institute of Thailand http://www.git.or.th/eng/

eng_index.htm

> > >

> > > In & for your best interest

> > >

> > > Your Friend

> > > Abhishek

> > >

> > > Find a mall, hotel or ATM in any part of India.

> > >

> > > ________

> > > Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE

> > > http://get.live.com/messenger/overview

> > >

> >

>

October 22, 2007

Hello, It was Hessonite. Sadly I dont have a picture of the same stone but the stone was eye clean but not loupe clean. Actually It was more than 415 carats but one gentleman had buttery fingers and I had to get it repolished. Why was I convinced it was a hessonite? It was from a lot of 60 KGs of hessonite which I had taken up in a joint venture deal. I would sell and pay the money to the miner. I used to keep the entire sack below my bed in the Hostel. Not to mention that I was then a non beleiver in planetary astrology especial that wearing stones could turn fortunes back then. Hind site is always 20/20 and I have my regrets. I did try to convince them to take another look but it was the year 1998-99 and I was but a novice in trade. Besides they used to keep the stone with them for a day before giving the certificate and they made me sign a form mentioning that if the stone is lost

its not the responsibility of the lab and the loss would be mine. Strange? I beleive that is still the practice today unless and untill you pay Rs1000 for spot analysis. Now for gems not very valuable and even if you have a sizeable quantity it turns out to be a lot of money. And besides that Gomedh is really not a very mast moving product. However I had taken specific gravity reading a couple of times and they averaged at around 3.7. Sadly I did not have a spectroscope then and more or less during those days I used to be broke. However the report did not mention if there was a spectrscopic analysis done and neither did it mention it was Magnesium Aluminium Silicate or Calcium Aluminium Silicate. Any way I am attaching a picture of what I saw in the stone. I just took a pic from my Dorling Kindersley Handbook of Gem Stones Pg. 60. This is a new copy but I had used the same title for reference

then. I beleive the same book back then was published under the title of Eyewitness series. How much did I sell the stone for. Measly Rs. 80,000/- Which I beleive for a gem of that size was a meagre amount. I also do stock and sell non jyotish quality gems as they have a ready demand in the jewellery market though I have never recommended or retailed them for Jyotish gems. Rarely I find those and they do command a premium price. Do let me know your opinions. Thanks and Best Regards, JayRichard Shaw-Brown <rsbj66 wrote: I was wondering about the statement, "I had a nice reddish gomedh of around 380 carats in sqare gut. The inclusions were clearly yelling that it was a gomedh. Yet the esteemed lab in Bombay gave me a certificate of a Pyrope."You say you had a Gomeda. Do you mean Hessonite? Or Orange Zircon? If the lab gave ID of Pyrope then are they wrong? If they are right then you never had a Gomeda to start with. If they are wrong then you should explain to them their mistake. Or get another lab report that is correct.Also, yelling "inclusions" are usually *bad flaws* that might disqualify any gem.Question: Pyrope OR Gomeda? Jyotish quality?Best wishes,Richard> >> > I have been in and out of gems for over 10 years now and I too have some very nasty>

experiences.> >> > Custom Officers in India are one bunch of people who dont fear the effects of> accumalating disastrous Karma. Now and then they have troubled me every time I am> importing gems. Recently they sealed my consignment of nigerian emeralds. Charged me> 25% duty even after I bribed them lest they would have disappeared.> >> > Gem traders in India. I honestly cant decide if they are more dishonest or greedy. And> gem labs....I wouldnt trust GIA since even they have been in cotroversies regarding> grading of diamonds. I had a nice reddish gomedh of around 380 carats in sqare gut. The> inclusions were clearly yelling that it was a gomedh. Yet the esteemed lab in Bombay gave> me a certificate of a Pyrope. Disaster! I did not get a good price for it since the buyer> insisted on a certificate.> >> > However there are traders who have

been in business for generations. Time and again I> have found them trustworthy. They know trust means continued business. Bangkok has> been notorious for fushing berylium infused stones in the market. Some elements have> made huge money on these in India selling gullible folks stones for thousands of dollars> when they are worth a few pennies.> >> > In Gujarati we have a saying that Crows are black around the world (kagda badhe kala).> If you have money to spend wether in India, Bangkok or Europe I would recommend> caution. Buy gems only from well known shops or buy it from people you know personally.> Its very hard to make money while one triffle and you have lost a fortune. I dont think that> one must generalise on Gem Dealers in India or overseas.> >> > In my opinion discretion is also a better part of bargain.> >> > Best Regards,>

>> > Jay> >> >> > Richard Shaw-Brown <rsbj66@> wrote:> > I don't think this was a condemnation of all gem labs in India. Just a warning> about trusting the independant labs. Labs associated with Institutions like Universities are> the best choice.> >> > As far as the question of cheats in India, all I can say is India is the only country where> we cannot send our products, because Indian customs officers are about 99.9% cheats. We> have tried to send but have been cheated every time. If you can find an honest Indian> custom officer they should make him Jagad Guru of Bharat.> >> > Again, 95% of Lakshmi Shank dealers in India are cheats fraudulently selling Lighting> Whelk shells (fraud). So what to speak of gems...> >> > In Bangkok you only get cheated if you visit "tourist traps". Bangkok is a much

better> source of fine gems than anywhere in India. The best lab here is Gemological Institute of> Thailand (GIT) part of the University here, 2nd best is AIGS (also a school).> >> > But I have no doubt that Sri Menon is an honest man. And many other Indian's I have> known as well. So the Issue with labs is to go with the recognized labs only unless you are> sure of your supplier.> >> > Best wishes,> > Richard> >> > sacred-objects , Kochu Menon <kochu1@> wrote:> > >> > >> > > Thank you for the information. But do you really think "ALL" labs in India are fraud?> Isn't> > there ONE Indian who can be honest? Wow!! what a country of cheats!! 1.3 Billion of> them.> > >> > > And I was under the

impression that Bangkok is the fraud centre in gem trade where if> > you buy at one shop and go back one hour later, after realising you have been cheated,> > the shop will have another name or would have disappeared altogether? Maybe it is a> > mistake? ALL jewellers in Bangkok are 100% honest with money back guarentee anytime> > any place? That also is a very interesting information.> > >> > > So you are suggesting that Indians do not buy gems from India but must buy from> > Thailand?> > > From whom in Thailand please? Any recommendations?Menon> > >> > >> > > sacred-objects@: benarsibabu@: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:24:55 +0100Subject:> > Gem Identification Lab's in India; Buyers Beware> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >

Dear All,> > >> > > Gem Testing is a highly scientific & specialized job. Infact along-with a discerning> eye,> > the Gemologist should be a individual of high integrity. As the stakes involved are> indeed> > high at times.> > >> > > To my utter dismay I find that majority of Indian Gem Testing Labs, lack the state of> the> > art equipment, trained personnel & off-course the integrity to give accurate reports.> > Jewellers / Dealers enjoying clout leave no stone unturned in getting fabricated reports.> > >> > > There is a leading Gem-Importer in Jaipur, who imported tons!!! of Mong-Su & > > Madagascar Glass-Filled Rubies in 2000 & cheated gullible buyers. The material in its> top-> > quality range sold for 2000 U$ for a 5 carat ruby & believe me it was really good. In> >

connivance with some key wholesellers the material was dumped in the Indian Retail> > Segment. By 2005 when Gem Labs came to know about the treatment, there was> material> > worth tens of crores in the trade. & The Indian Traders were in no mood to book losses.> > They dumped the material further to consumers, off-couse in connivance with gem-> labs.> > >> > > Gem Labs in India, do not have a mandatory disclosure of Heat Treatment, unless> > otherwise specified. So if Any Jeweller or Gem- Retailer shows you a certificate of say> > Sapphire Stone class, it will mention, "Natural Sapphire", but this does not constitute> that> > the sapphire is unheated.> > >> > > Indian Sites which deal in Jyotish Gems & have displayed the certificate of the gem> being> > sold, check on the certificate, it only mentions "Natural

Sapphire", with no comment as> to> > whether it is heated or unheated.> > >> > > Most of the Labs buckle when you insist on Heat Treatment Determination, the> > gemologist will first say its' impossible to make out. If you insist further he will take you> to> > a corner & tell you that, he shall tell you orally but would not write it on the certificate.> > Further he shall elaborate that 99% sapphires are heated and /or treated, so it is no big> > deal whether the one you have brought is heated or not. & Do you know why he is> telling> > you this. Because otherwise the Jeweller his Mai-Bap would be displeased.> > >> > > If there is a gem-lab in Asia which can truly be relied upon for the high caliber of it's> > Gemologist, State of the Art Equipment & High Standards of its Integrity, it is

AIGS,> > www.aigsthailand.com.> > >> > > So my dear forum members, if you are investing a sizeable chunk of your hard earned> > money in procuring Jyotish-Quality Gems, its advisable to get the gem tested from the> > best in business.> > >> > > Other leading Gem-Labs in Asia;> > >> > > Tokyo Gem Laboratory, Bangkok & > > > The Gems and Jewelry Institute of Thailand http://www.git.or.th/eng/eng_index.htm> > >> > >> > > In & for your best interest> > >> > > Your Friend> > > Abhishek> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Find a mall, hotel or ATM in any part of India. > > >> > >>

> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > ________> > > Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE> > > http://get.live.com/messenger/overview> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > >>