Guest guest Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Very Nice Discussion... Looking for Views about Dasavaratham, Budha, Jeasus, 21st Dec 2012,.... sriayyappan , " TSivaramakrishna Iyer " <iyerauh wrote: > > *Dear All* > *Surprising & interesting to see a reply mail from Mr Mathew Thomas (hope to > be from Trichur-Kerala) on the subject in the iyergroups. Any comments* > ** > *regds* > *tsi* > 2008/5/16 mathew thomas trichurboy_new: > > > Dear All, > > Purusha Sooktam says " Atyadhishta Dasaamgulam " - Means, The ViraatPurush is > > still 10 fingers beyond all our measurements. When the ancient intellectual giants of Bhaarat says something, there could me many more dimensions than what we can perceive. We can make many interpretations or dimensions for each and every word of the scripts - everything will perfectly match but still there can be more perceptions. I observe the Dasaavataaram in a different angle: > > Why there are avataarams only for Lord Vishnu and not for Shiva or Brahma? > > I feel, this is because, Brahma is the Lord of birth and Shiva, the Lord for death - both are momentary process - Till the last breath is gone out, a living thing cant be called as dead. Ad it will take only a moment to stop the breath. Same is the case for breath Where as life is a continuous process and in every moment of life itself, there are births and deaths - in every moment, the previous moment is dead the present one is born. This continuum of moments constitute the life and this continuum makes a continuous cange in everything also : the physical body, the mind, the thoughts ........ So, to successfully pass through this continuum, one has to take different actions according to the moment. Matsya is the first avataram after pralayam. The speciality of fish is that, it is always active and never takes rest. So, if a pralaya - or a total destruction or a tragedy comes into our life, instead of keeping depressed, we must start new and kep ourselves highly active like a fish. Next is Koorma. this word has many meanings such as subtle or concentration or power of focusing etc Once we become active, the next quality we have to achieve is the power of focusing or determinin gour aim and work hard for the aim. Like a tortoise keeps aways itself from all outward nuisances, we should be able to withdraw ourself from outward nuisance and be able to focus on our aim. Next is varaham. The varaham is a strong animal and if somebody makes it irritated, it will become violent and react back to keep them away from its world of activity. Like that, if our tortoise nature is not enough to keep away others from desturbing us, we should act like a vvaraham to protect ourselves. There is nothing wrong if we stop others from interfering into our life. Our life is important tan the comments of others about us. Next is Narasimham - The one & only one Spontaneous Avathaaram - There were lot of experiemnts in the life of Prahlada but finally, within a fraction of time, the Lord appeared to protect him. Like the Narasimham, we should observe the situations clearly, constantly and patiently. When the time comes, we should respond to the situations spontaneously - especially if we are into business or in a position of a decision maker or something. Next is Vamana: Small but precise and assertive. Always calm and pleasant. There are interpretations about vamana's action that he destroyed a nice king like mahabali and the most ideal Kingdom. Observe closely: Vamana done so not for his personal benefits but to protect the Devas and Indra. Indra is none but our own Indriyaas. Mahabali was ofcourse the best king for his people. However, Indra thought that through the good things , he may conquer Indra. Means, Even if we are doing all the good things, it should be with the full awareness of all our Indriyaas and the mind. If we do charity, it should not be for the publicity or for the sake of charity or just because we believe that charity is good. !00% of our body an dmind should be involved in our actions. If it is not happening, just stop it without any regression- as Vamana pushed Mahabali to Paathala, stop all the activities which are not fully accepted by yor mind and body. > > > > > > Next is Parasuraama: A man of pround prejudice - we have to meet similar > > people through out in our life. Understand that like us, they are also an > > avathaar of the same God. Accept them as it is. Never try to conquer them or > > argue with them in the usual manner > > > > > > > > Next is Sreerama: The only way to conquer Parasurama is patience. With > > these qualities, we can conquer even ravana - the mutldimensional > > intellectual giant with a strong base of super soldiers and all. > > > > > > > > Next is Balarama: The very basic quality is his muscle power and hence the > > name. It is written in the bhagavatha that, when garga maharshi taken him > > for naamakaranam, Rama punched his chest with his leg and proved his > > strength then itself and hence Maharshi named him as Balarama. We have to > > take care of our body also. But balarama proves that, he alone can not do > > anything. He was just a suppoter for Krishna. > > > > > > > > Next is Sree Krishna: The dynamic avathaar of love and compassion. He shows > > us how to be active without having a feeling of ownership of anything. We > > also should do our duties to ourselves, to the family, to the society and to > > the world but never keep the ego. Ego is defined as Edging God Out. > > > > > > > > Krishna was also named by Garga Maharshi and he pulled Maharshi's beard > > when Maharshi kept him on his lap for the naamakarana. So Maharshi decided, > > since the child is pulling everything ( or attracts everything) to him let > > him be Krishna. Krishna means, that which attracts. > > > > > > > > Through out his life, Krishna never used any word that makes an > > inferiority feeling on the others. Even to the depressed Arjuna at the > > battlefield, he called " Oh the great soldier, the son of a great king ...... > > never he called oh idiot or something like that. > > > > > > > > Let us also follow Krishna: develope the feeling of love and compassion. > > look into others with respect. > > > > > > > > The final is Kalki: For anything born or created, there should be an end or > > death. And there should be a reaoson or cause for the end or death. Even > > after going through all the previous states, if we are not able to throw > > away our possessions, then the disturbances will automatically start > > because, end is inevitable. We can see the end of many nations, cultures, > > business, industries, lives .... Without any known reasons, a disturbance > > starts and finally it will end on the cease of the industry or the business > > or the nation...... > > > > > > > > However, if we can get rid off from our possessions and obcessions, or, if > > we can acquire the real wisdom, then these calamities will not affect us.. > > Even if the hard earned things of life are totally ceased, we will not feel > > any distraction to our mind because, our mind is seasoned and knows that it > > is inevitable and it is the time for the end. This state is the absolute > > state of Moksha. Kalki is supposed to save the good people from the evil: > > Means, Those who achieve this state of mind will not become agitated for > > anything happening in their life and they will be able to restart anything > > even after a total destruction. In this way kalki will save them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 4/18/08, kumar Narayanan tnkumar1* wrote: > > > > kumar Narayanan tnkumar1 > > [iyer123] Lord Krishna and concept of avatarams > > iyer123 > > Friday, April 18, 2008, 8:33 PM > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > tnkumar1 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com > > ranga (AT) krystalball (DOT) com > > RE: [iyer123] Lord Krishna and concept of avatarams > > Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:48:55 +0530 > > > > Dear Friends, > > I have been wanting to share my views on the Avatars and the 10 avatars has > > a close link with the > > origin of evolution of life on earth and on human beings. Let us start > > with the 10 avatars:- > > > > 1. Maschya > > The fish, which is aquatic can live in water only and once the entire > > universe was full of water and only the > > fish can live. > > 2. Koorma > > The Tortoise, an amphibian, can live both on land as well as water. > > Beautifully agrees with the theory of evolution by modern scientists as the > > land mass started forming from the water. > > 3. Varaha > > The boar, the first land animal which lives on swamp land very close to the > > water source. > > 4. Narasimha > > The lion, the land animal fully aclamatized on living on land. > > 5. Vamana > > The pigmy people. In modern theory, the anthropologists are in agreement > > that they fist human being ever to evolve > > are the pigmy people who continue to live certain parts of Africa - and the > > land mass was joined together without the Arabian sea in between. > > 6. Parasurama - The first learned Brahmin Rishi - and all the learnings > > started from this point on wards. > > 7. Rama - A Kshatriya - A king and an Uttama Purushan. > > 8. Balarama > > 9. Krishna - Yadava dynasity - > > 10. Kalki - the Kali yuga.- Global warming. > > I have read all that has been written on Dasa Avatara, but I feel the above > > blends with the modern scientific theory of evolution and can be easily > > explained to the younger generations. > > > > Please pardon me if I have mentioned anything wrong !! > > Namaskarams. > > T.N.Kumar > > -- > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > achalam38 (AT) netscape (DOT) net > > CC: rangsvijaya@ ; Iyer123@ .com > > ranga (AT) krystalball (DOT) com > > Mon, 3 Dec 2007 14:10:23 +0530 > > Re: [iyer123] Lord Krishna and concept of avatarams > > > > Dear Mr.Achalam, > > This is in response to your explanation to Shree Ranganathan ( my > > namesake)that Krishna is not just an Avatar but that > > a.All avatars came from Krishna and that > > b.That even Krishna has said so. > > c.That even Bhagavatham has said Krishna took 10 avatars and that Buddha > > was > > the one before Kalki. > > > > I am aware you are a well read person,but please permit me to state that > > the subject of Avatarams can be argued endlessly from different > > perspectives > > - spiritualism encompassing Karma, birth & death,Siddha Yoga > > concepts,traditiona l Hindu beliefs,Time Cycles or Yugas as given by so > > many > > texts, Vyasas Mahabharatha, Astrologers interpretations etc. > > > > Let me say a few words from what I have come across so far. > > If Bhagavatham be taken as the only guiding text then what about other > > ancient texts and Hindu traditional beliefs that the 10 Avatars emanated > > from Vishnu? There are other texts that speak of 20/22 avatarams.I have > > heard it being said that Buddha is not in the list of 10 but in the > > auxiliary list of 20-22. > > The founder of ISKCON Prabhupada is an utter Krishna devotee and quoting > > from Bhagavatham says that all the avatars including Krishna are from > > Vishnu > > but that Vishnu himself is an expansion of a Higher Krishna.So he has > > derived two Krishna-an avatar Krishna and a Super Krishna.I have read in > > one > > of ISKCON's publications authored by Prabhupada that Shiva is ever eager or > > > > waiting to carry the orders of Vishnu that he keeps on his head like > > chappals. > > Further Prabhupada says that above all lokas known to the highest Gnanis > > there is a GOLOKA, unknown to those who have not percieved it.That Krishna > > stands there eternally with Flute in hand, with cows .....et all.So where > > does Siva Puranam and Siva stand in relation to Bhagavatham and > > Krishna/Vishnu? Is it an inferior concept and Godhead? What about concepts > > of Formlessness, Brahmam? > > > > Regarding Buddha, his followers believe that there are many Buddhas and > > that > > Maithreya Buddha is yet to come.Their Gnanis do not even accept God > > /Krishna > > or Avatarams while you quote from Bhagavatham that Buddha comes from > > Krishna.If he was why did Gautama Buddha not tell this simple fact to his > > followers? Are Super Intelligent Beings ( Buddhas) and Avatarams one and > > the > > same? > > > > Coming to Avatarams, both by definition and Siddha Yoga, there can be any > > number of Descents or Avatarams- not just 10 or 20 or 22- for any number of > > > > purposes as there are fully realised souls in the highest loka who WISH to > > DESCEND for a PARTICULAR PURPOSE.It is that Being's independent choice to > > take a Descent and become an Avatar for HIS own purpose.Depending on the > > source of Consciousness the Avatar can be classified as Vishnu's/ > > Krishna's/ > > ....Perhaps the Dasavatarams are a distinct group of general purpose > > avatarams recorded in folklore descending from the Soul who has attained > > Krishna's or Vishnu's state of Conciousness with the objective of > > " Protection " and common good, hence more famous and classified as Vishnu's. > > > > > > In modern day Sathya Sai Baba has declared that his predecessor Shirdi > > Avataram came from Shiva ( Shiva Consciousness' s).That the current one is > > a > > combination of Shiva and Shakthi,while the third one is going to be that of > > > > Shakthi alone.Further he has classified that prior to him,only Krishna was > > Poorna avataram, not even Rama,and that there has been no Poorna avataram > > after Krishna till the Sai Baba. In case anyone may call into question Sai > > Baba's credentials, please do an objective research and you may have to > > agree > > on the evidence that points to Sai Baba's superhuman attributes > > demonstrated > > on a larger and wider scale,even more than Krishna. > > > > Recall that during Krishna's own life time not more than a handful beieved > > that He was an avatar.Only the few like Bhishma, Kripa,Drona, Arjuna and > > Karna even obtained His Visvaroopa.The masses only took Him as a Mayavi and > > > > a Great Versatile Man,but many even denounced him.Yet today millions > > proclaim his Absolute Godheadedness. (So not surprising that Sai Baba will > > also have his detractors, so this is no evidence of his ordinariness. ) > > > > On the other hand it is recorded in Aurobindo's Diary on Nov 24 that his > > prolonged meditation on Krishna to Descend has borne fruit as he had a > > vision of Krishna born again on 23rd Nov which happenned to be Sathya's Sai > > > > Baba's birthday, in the very same year.So here is Sai baba saying he comes > > from Siva-Shakthi while a great Seer like Aurobindo recording that on 23rd > > Nov,Lord Krishna took birth again. So is Krishna and Shiva the one and the > > same? > > > > Coming back to Buddha,Krishna and Yugas.Some calculate the Yugas in > > millions > > of years quoting " Ashtavigumshathita me, Kali Yuge, prathame pade......and > > say Kali has a few millions more to go.Naturally MahaBharata, Ramayana and > > Krishna are calculated as events taken place millions years ago.But current > > > > day Astromers and Astrologers using Software and Planetary positions as > > given by Vyasa and Valmiki have fixed Krishna at 3100-106-3110 B.C and > > Ramayana at about 6000 BC.This is just about 5000 and 8000 years back > > respectively, so where does Buddha who was born about 560 B.C figure here > > and > > who and where is Kalki? > > If you crosscheck with the Mayan Calender ( Central American /Mexican > > Natives) the current Yuga ends precisely on 21st Dec 2012.This has also > > been > > confirmed by Kalki Bhagavan ( refer his web site) and more or less by > > Sathya > > Sai Baba ( refer Taped conversations of Sai baba with Dr John Hislop > > published year 1965) > > > > Who is Maya? There is a research finding that Maya was an Indian Sage and > > the Divine architect who designed Indraprastha. He predicted World wide > > catastrophe if Mahabharata took place, and under Krishna's suggestions left > > > > our land to resettle in central America.You may note that his architecture > > has stark similarities with Vasthu system. > > > > It is of further interest to note that Kriya Yogis and Tamil Siddhas > > followers believe that Babaji of the Himalayas whose age is calculated as > > 1804 yrs ( born 203 A.D.,on Rohini Nakshatra, Karthigai month, as 8th son > > of > > his parents and still living)is an Avataram of Muruga ( Muruga > > Consciousness) .Babaji's stated purpose of taking avataram is to revive and > > > > teach the Kriya Yoga as taught by Krishna in the Gita. Again Babaji's > > demonstrated Consciousness to his disciples and some of his miracales seem > > to defy even Sai Baba's prowess.So the list of avatarams may not be limited > > > > and their purpose beyond human comprehension. > > > > If we move out of Indian thought systems we find that Christians quote from > > > > the Bible that Jesus said " I am the way...Seek refuge in me " etc. Sounds > > like Krishna.Is Jesus an avatara? If so whose? On the other hand Tamil > > Siddhas say that Jesus was trained from 13 to 30 in Himalayas under > > Yogis.Sai Baba's Museum in Puttaparthi also talks of Jesus's stay in > > Himalayas before giving his sermon on the mount. Further he has > > categorically stated that Jesus was not an avatara but was born with some > > divine powers. And that neither was Buddha an avatara. > > > > Bhoga Maharshi has written in his Sidhharpadal that he took rebirth as > > Jesus > > and then a " third time as Nabi Mohammed " .Will Christians and Muslims accept > > > > this?.Muhammedans have their own beliefs and avataram " Al Mahdi " ..... > > > > One can go on and on.......... .We can all produce texts in support of our > > arguments but proving nothing conclusively. > > My view is that there is certainly a unification theory of everything > > everywhere but that it is beyond a normal man's research time or logical > > analysis.And if I happen to stumble on to that secret I will keep it to > > myself.Because no one else is going to accept that. > > Best > > ranga > > www.krystalball. com > > achalam38 (AT) netscape (DOT) net achalam38 writes: > > > > > Dear Ranganathan, > > > > > > > > > > > > If you see Bhagawatham it is stated therein Lord Krishna took Dasavathar. > > > > > Here Parthranaya Sadhoonaam etc. Uttered by Lord Krishna shows that he is > > > the Supreme from whom everything comes. He say whenever there is adharma > > I > > > come for the benefit of Sadhus etc. Etc. What does it men? He says I > > > appear in the world in the form of avataar at various times. That means, > > he > > > himself takes avataar and he is not an avatar. He is in all avataars. > > This > > > shows Krishna is not an avataar . He is the Paramatman who is appearing > > in > > > avatars. Even Bhagavatham says Krishna took 10 avatars and in it the one > > > before Kalki is Budha. > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > Radhe Krishna > > > > > > > > > > > > Achalam > > > > > > > > > > > > Phone: 91-022-25641188 > > > > > > > > > > > > Emails: achalam38 (AT) aim (DOT) com achalam38 > > > > > > achalam38 (AT) gmail (DOT) com achalam38 > > > > > > achalam38 (AT) netscape (DOT) net achalam38 > > > > > > achalam38 (AT) mtnl (DOT) net.in achalam38 > > > > > > > > > > > > Website: www.achalam. com > > > > > > www..geocities. com/v_achalam > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Planning marriage in 2008! Join Shaadi.com matrimony FREE! Try it now!<http://ss1.richmedia.in/recurl.asp?pid=429> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Windows Live Spaces : Help your online world come to life, add 500 photos a > > month. Try it! <http://home.services.spaces.live.com/> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Regards > TS Iyer------------ > E-mail Disclaimer : > The info. & material shared in this message, including attachments, are > obtained from various sources, privileged and confidential. The info. is > intended solely as general ref. only. It is not a legal advice. > If you, as reader of this message are not the intended recipient, or have a > different opinion of the contents for any reasons, or received it by error, > please delete this message immediately. Inconvenience caused, if any, is > highly regretted. > > Please note that e-mails are susceptible to change. The sender will not > accept liability for the improper or incomplete transmission of the info.. > Thanks for your understanding & cooperation > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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