RE: Krishna, Budha & Jesus - kini

[Guest guest]

Kini,

 

You wrote " Hindus knew that these (lesser) Gods would be able to give them

only material benefits and not salvation.

 

Well, I do hope that today's hindus are truly aware of this issue, yet I

have my doubt.

 

However I must stress that we are talking about the situation of 5000 years

ago: the moment that Krishna appeared.

 

At that time people did not practice or live by this high and noble paradigm

which you outlined.

 

In the days before Krishna, people in the whole world (and so also the

Indian population) lived but a gross material life, worshipping an abundance

of lesser gods, which they felt effected most aspects of their material

life.

 

Common life then was rather different then today and sometimes rather

barbarian.

 

Could we say that a true religion was already established in detail in those

days? The answer is negative.

 

I mean, if there were religious threads or tendencies at all, they were not

as yet commonly accepted, for life was scattered widely and not yet even

established into which we would even call a culture.

 

Those were the ancient days. However, in the light of evolution, man had to

be taught higher standards and truths.

 

Therefore, it was necessary indeed that a holy man would appear to bring the

message of One God, which could lead man to Salvation, to the Light. It was

this afterthought, this addition, which made quite a change to the previous

context of worshipping the lesser gods for men's material benefits.

 

And so Krishna appeared.

 

This is what I meant in my previous email-message.

 

On Hinduism: why would you like to promote Hinduism? Why would one like to

promote any traditional (and worldly) denomination in the first place, if

all - including Hinduism - are corrupted in one way or another? If this were

not so, would all followers/believers not already be enlightened? Can we say

that all Hindus have found Salvation and so walk in Bliss? Are they all

lifted already into the ranks of Ascended masters?

 

If this is not so, than what would be the reason for this?

 

The same question we may ask about the christians, the moslims, the jews,

the confucianists, even the Buddhists. Have they all found eternal Bliss?

The answer is negative. And yet they all consider themselves to be the

elected few. How sad..

 

Why would we be interested in any denomination if there exists a living

Truth as the one true Religion of Love, which would lift the worldly burden

from the shoulders of each human soul on Earth?

 

This Truth is born from the One God, All there is, and it does not wish to

have a name. It is a plenitude of divine Radiation, which can never be

written down in words. The one who clings to a scripture put in words, how

exalted it may be, and how true it describes the truth about our reality,

about Gods Reality and how to find Bliss, still is a poor instrument. A

scripture itself can never bring man to Salvation. Even the Gita is not able

to do this. Man who idolizes the scripture is a poor man, not (yet) known by

the Cosmos.

 

The one way to the Light is to find [Cosmic] Love and to walk the Way of

Purification all by oneself (and today preferably groupwise).

 

On the Avatar: It seems the Truth about the Avatar can't convince you. Well,

it is your birthright not to accept it and to believe it is otherwise. Yet

the Truth remains the Truth.

 

Time has come to set apart all the intermediaries, all the great Messengers

of the past, and become the Light oneself.

 

This is the message today for every human soul in the Family of humanity.

 

One has to prepare oneself for unfortunately we are running out of time.

 

johan

 

 

 

Van:

Namens uv kini

Verzonden: maandag 12 november 2007 12:49

Aan:

Onderwerp: Re: Krishna, Budha & Jesus

 

 

 

Johan,

 

There are so many issues to discuss here. But first I

will reply to your point about " While Krishna

developed the roots of the higher Faith for the One

God in the East.. "

 

One of the most beautiful characteristics of Hinduism

is freedom of expression. There is no authoritarian

central body which lays down what is God, how He is to

be worshipped, what is heretical etc. No burning at

the stakes for heretical views. That is why the

scriptures have been interpreted in different ways by

saints down the ages. There are different sects in

Hinduism which can be broadly classified into

Vaishnavites, Smaartas, Shaivites, Shaaktas,

Ganapatyas. There are different schools of philosophy

/ Vedanta viz, Dwaita, Advaita, Vishistadwaita etc.

However, the ideology of these schools is based on

the Vedas and other scriptures.

 

According to the Vedas there is only One God, contrary

to the biased (derogatory) 'non-hindu' notion that

Hindus worship 330 million Gods. The Vedas speak of

only one God even though He is referred to by

different names in the Vedas, like Agni, Indra etc.

The scriptures speak of 33 koti (330 million???) Gods.

As mentioned in one of my earlier posts, Sanskrit is

such a complex language, that many meanings can be had

from a single word. It requires a certain intellect to

intepret the meaning in the context in which it is

written.

 

The word 'Koti' here is not a number, but a descending

order of hierarchy (different levels) of souls (33 in

number) with Paramatma (God) at the top. (This is a

complex issue which cannot be condensed into this

post. To understand this, one has to make a detailed

study of Hindu philosophy). In Hindu Philosophy, the

term 'deva' is used to refer to celestial beings

(souls) inhabiting a region which can be loosely

called Heaven in English. Christianity also has these

beings eg. Cherubs, Seraphs, Angels (who have a

hierarchical order), etc. In Hinduism, the words

" Paramaatma " , " Ishwara " or " Bhagavanta " refer to the

One Supreme Being called 'God' in English.

 

The concept of One God was present in the world's

earliest civilization right from the beginning. So

also was the concept that there were lesser Gods (say,

lieutenants of the One God) who were assigned

different duties and domains. Eg. Indra (rain), Agni,

(fire), Vayu (air), Varuna (water) etc. Hindus knew

that these (lesser) Gods would be able to give them

only material benefits and not salvation.

 

The goal of any human being is to attain salvation

(moksha) which only the Supreme Being can give. Sri

Krishna says so in the Bhagavad Gita. - Jnana-Vijnana

Yoga. Chapter 7.

 

....and Johan, please do not try to explain to me (or

convince me) that an Avatar is not the same as God.

We Hindus believe that an avatar is God Himself and we

do not need any modern day 'rational' explanation to

the contrary. Holy men (Sants) are different from

Avataars. While holy men are pious individuals, an

avatar is the materialisation of God Himself in human

form on this earth. God is Omnipotent, Omniscient,

Omnipresent and when He manifests Himself in human

form, He sees to it that the form taken by Him is not

confined by terrestrial/physical limitations.

 

Again, a study of our Scriptures will make this clear.

All answers will be found there. But the same has to

be approached with an unbiased mind. This is because

Hinduism has been denigrated over the centuries by

other religions to such an extent that it is easy for

non-hindus to believe otherwise.

 

Although I have read our scriptures, I do not consider

myself qualified to interpret and explain them in

detail. Which is why I am refraining from quoting from

our scriptures.

 

Rest, later when I find time.

 

BTW I request other members to contribute to this

discussion too.

 

U. V. KINI

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

God is fundamental to all consciousness like air or water for existence.It does

not matter by what name you call water and how you describe it . The spiritual

experiences are deeply personal.intuitively I feel in all times and at all

places there were people who established a connection with the devine.Some of

these people tried to narrate their experience to others rather painfully. The

deciples of some of these enlightened man tried to codify these narrations.All

religious texts are a result of such codification. They contain wisdom and

foolish worldly teachings in equal measure.Religion is the kindergarten of

spirituality. It introduces to us the idea of purity and divinity. beyond this

the individuals have to explore within themselves.The Hindu idol worship is as

foolish as the rehman and merciful concept of God.God is not a human being he is

not only formless he can not have attributes either.

 

Man at all times have been guided by selfish interest & Fame as the main

motivation in contrast few are those guided by self actualisation or parmarth.

At all times there were people who sought general well being . These people

understood that God has to be sought in the inner most core of our existence.

Kabir wisely has said where do you seek me.... I am not in the temple nor I am

in the mosque nor I am at Kashi nor at Kailash.

 

Please refrain from intellectual debates on God, no body has realised God this

way.We are more like the five blind men describing the elephant variously.

 

Just to explan you why an intellectual approach can not carry you far :

 

It is scientifically established that the universe is expanding and becoming

more and more complex.The stars have a red shift when viewed with a

telescope.All complex atoms started from Hydrogen.So the complexity is ever

increasing. How can you take stock of this complexity by analysis or breaking

down or mathematically by derivation??????

 

The only tool for self realisation is integration and surrender. Pray to Lord

tonight and every night that He may appear before you in his original state and

reveal Himself.

 

May all realise God.

 

bprath65