Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Let me attempt a reply......jay - " Varun Ramasubramanian " <greatsage7 <ramakrishna > Monday, March 21, 2005 8:54 AM [sri Ramakrishna] clarification > > > hari om, > > i would like to clarify some of my doubts. > > 1)swamiji tells us to repeat soham which means 'i am he' in the sense of > asking us to identify ourselves with the all-pervading lord. Yes, we are the lord despite appearance to the contrary > 2)in another lecture he tells us that we are the witness and not the doer. Yes, our essential Self as the witness looks through the mind and body complex and 'somehow' identifies itself with a physical and mental mode' > 3)he also tells us that the knower cannot be known,because then the knower > would not remain the knower. The experience of discovering our identity as the witness is a very dynamic, real experience. " The knower cannot be known " is meant to distance us from our mundane idea of what we mean when we say we know something. The spiritual experience is far more intense and closer at home than the process of knowing in our normal day to day world. Hope this helped................jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 --- anandmanikant <anandmanikant wrote: > swamiye saranam ayyappa! > respected swami's i'am facing a problem of cold > allergi,i visited to > clinic, doctor has advised me to not take bath with > clod water, is it > possible that we can take bath of hot water during > virtam. so anybody > clear my doubt. > swamiye saranam ayyappa > swami saranam,swami saranam. > > > > Dear Anand If situation is really unavoidable, yes you can hve relaxations in Vratham.You must be fit to climb Shabarimala,so health has to be taken care of. Let me explain you that most of the rituals in vratam were introduced to keep devotees fit to travel to Shabarimala, as in good old days devotees had to walk many days to reach Shabarimala,all along dense forest. Hence they have to remain Mentally and physically fit, so to tune up the body for such journey Strict Vratahm were introduced. Hope this satisfies your query. anand _________ Try the all-new Mail. " The New Version is radically easier to use " – The Wall Street Journal http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Swamy Saranam AyyappaAyyappa,u dont use hot water for bathing. cold wil get not only to u. it will comes to every ayyappan. so u try to bear the cold. it will go away from u. lord ayyappa is testing u. that u will be fit for Sabarimala or not. see swamy, today is my 41st day. till now i didnt faced any problem. but he gave me a puncture to my left foot. expect this there is no problem. so u r so lucky than me. u r facing only cold. for me? its big exam. i will show my foot to u if u want to see.swamy ye saranam ayyappaRaamanandmanikant <anandmanikant wrote: swamiye saranam ayyappa! respected swami's i'am facing a problem of cold allergi,i visited to clinic, doctor has advised me to not take bath with clod water, is it possible that we can take bath of hot water during virtam. so anybody clear my doubt. swamiye saranam ayyappa swami saranam,swami saranam. Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Swamiye Saranam Ayyappa!Please check out the health advise on this URL (http://www.saranamayyappa.org/Contents.htm). An abstract is quoted here: In spite of Cardiac Care units and oxygen parlours set up at Pampa, Neelimala, Appachimedu and Sannidhanam, some pilgrims died during the pilgrimage. The figures are as follows:- Mandala - Makaravilakku Session Ending Loss of Lives 20th January 2002 22 20th January 2003 24 20th January 2004 27 + 1 20th January 2005 27 + 3 20th January 2006 31 In almost 99 % of these cases, cardiac problems were the main cause. Most of the pilgrims do not know their own cardiac state. The climb up to Sannidhanam is steep. In case of any lurking cardiac ailments, it starts showing up during the climb. Devotion to Lord Ayyappa does not mean that you have to climb non-stop. Please take frequent and adequate rest during your climb up Karimala, Neelimala and Appachimedu. Of the 31 persons who died this season, only two were from the age group of 50 yrs and above. 29 of the fatalities amongst the age group of 25 to 49 Yrs of age. Diabetes and Hypertension have been the main killers giving rise to sudden heart attacks. During the season 2006 - 2007, please be careful. Look after yourself..... Deepak Vasudevanhttp://www.saranamayyappa.tk/91 98400 26014------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 A small clarification here: Sri Lanka Krishnarao's message was directed to Sriram Iyer's message and not to me(Shreeram Balijepalli).Iam giving this message as some of my friend in this group have asked me to reply back to Sri Lanka Krishna Rao's message. I do not intend to carry on this thread from my side but would definitely love to read the e-confabulations between Sri Lanka Krishna Raoji and Sri Sriram Iyer ji. Certain pointers from my side(this Shreeram gives for one last time): 1. To describe material phenomenon in terms of Adhyaatma like Sri Lanka Garu has described should be the goal of all Upasakas.I accept this much. Even Ramayana can be codified in terms of inner meanings. For example: Seetha is the MahAkundalini Shakthi, Lord Rama the ParamAtmaN,HanumAn can be defined as the DhAranA shakthi,etc. To call oneself a " staunch devotee of Ganapathy " based on the inner jignyAsA seems fantastic if one has achieved a superior level of SAdhanA sans intellectual berating. However, there are many holes in the argument posited for the same and the means encoded to achieve the same. 2.First,to call " these gods are mere products of Sri Guru-- Father,mother,etc " seems plausible(please note the word " plausible " which is different from the word " possible " ). I accept this much. However, on even on an experiential and logical stance it is not proper.Even logically speaking-Once a statement is spoken with conviction then proof is necessitated. What is the PramAna for the above statement? Can you disprove the fact that these " gods " exist? 3.Second, in an email before you had stated " NarayanA " or " ShivA " are the sole moksha givers and now you change your stance subtly to state that all these are mere spiritual fictions and that one has to dwell deep into the inner meanings to under the core concept of moksha. So in the context of Ucchista Ganapthi--your stance is: The Hari-Hara are moksha givers and now when questioned your stance has broadened in a negatory way to even remove them as mere fictions created by parents,teachers,society at large,etc(mere mortals). However, this contradictory stance impregnates certain doubts as to the level of understanding--whether based on real upasana or mere reading of intellectual texts(I would not border on argumentum ad hominem here. Your logical argument also takes a trend of logical fallacy of accident(also called destroying the exception or a dicto simpliciter ad dictum secundum quid)and the converse of this(dicto secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter)and finally ends up with an Irrelevant Conclusion (also called Ignoratio Elenchi), wherein, instead of proving the fact in dispute, the arguer seeks to gain his point by diverting attention to some extraneous fact. See, the dificulty of logicalizing spirituality sire? 4.Third, you go on and state that " these gods " have...which means you have already accepted the existence of these gods and then say will adorn the neck of " Mahakali " (hope you did not mean another deity created by parents,teachers and society at large! and meant only in the esoteric and absturse sense of meaning beyondness of time. Yes, you are correct in as much as Mahapralaya wherein even Hariharahreem dissolve is correct but dont you think there inner- kundalini explantion to it as in antar-pralaya? It beats me because, I dont study so many texts and just do what my Guru asks me to do. 5.Fourth, I do not either Sriram Iyer (or me)ever meant " Ganapathy is the sole moksha giver " --herein lie two logical fallacies--logical fallacy of the conseuqent and the logical fallacy of the false cause. Thus, your TarkavAdA fails here on these two counts: Fallacy of the Consequent, really a species of Irrelevant Conclusion, wherein a conclusion is drawn from premises which do not really support it. And Fallacy of False Cause, or Non Sequitur (L., it does not follow), wherein one thing is incorrectly assumed as the cause of another, as when the ancients attributed a public calamity to a meteorological phenomenon. 6. Sixth, you then go on to ask " what about people in AFrica,America,etc...who do not have GanAnAmpathi? " The logical fallacy here is called:Fallacy of Many Questions (Plurium Interrogationum), wherein several questions are improperly grouped in the form of one, and a direct categorical answer is demanded, e.g. if a prosecuting counsel asked the prisoner " What time was it when you met this man? " with the intention of eliciting the tacit admission that such a meeting had taken place. Another example is the classic line, " Have you stopped beating your wife? " Now, if I start to answer your question regarding the 'peoples' in such continents have their gods and relevant spiritualities to follow and attain nirvana then I(or Sriram Iyerji) would fall for your plurium Interrogationum! Do you want us esteemed sir to make young people like us fall for such things?Please help us rise sir! 7.One story which comes to my mind is of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Vivekananda wherein Thakur chides Naren for asking one devotee of Thakur to throw the idols in a river and worship on the inner Atman.The devotee knows not such inner essence spirituality (swasAnusAdhanA).He has to start from Saguna worship modalities(with form and features) and then go to NirgunA(without form).So berating and attacking forms and features of sincere devotees especially in this Kaliyuga(difficult age where people don't find time even to worship idols! leave alone think and ponder upon swasAnusadhanA is to again border on assinineness). You have valid points, your conclusions are right and quite advanced. I agree but the means to it is also a spiritual journey and requires in my view, intense sadhana, guru-bhakthi, Devi-kripa(in my case, lest you go on and say why " only " Devi-kripa?)and also maybe one's karmas(which ofcourse, can be wiped off by the preceptor's grace and say Srividya Upasana *in my case*). With this I stop my speeding fingers on this topic/thread and will wait for your response and messages directed to Sriram Iyerji and his reponses for yours. I stay out as Iam a Moodha(fool who has not studied scriptures in detail) and Agnaani(not knowledgable in your manner of spirituality).Please excuse my dis-alignment. Nothing said toungue-in-cheek. Yours Yogically, Shreeram Balijepalli Rajarajeshwari_Kalpataru , " krishnarao " <lanka.krishnarao wrote: > > mAnanIya SrIramji, > > I am very much impressed you are attempting to protray(?) > ganapathy`s glory. In fact I am also a staunch devotee of Ganapathy, > who is deeply established in me in the form of my jij~nyasa. I also > worship subrahmaNya to the core of my heart, who is all the five > elements and my mind. > > But I dont believe these gods whether gaNapathi or subrahmaNya > or ranganAtha or NArAyaNa or paramESwara Who ever may be with a name > and form as the mokSha givers, because no one of these are permanent. > After all these gods are all the products of SrIguru i.e., > father,mother, forefathers, relatives, teachers, friends and society > at large. If gaNapathy is the only mokSha giver, what would be the > fate of the living beings in foreign contries like Afrika, Amerika, > Arab contries, china and Japan etc.? because they dont know about > this GaNapthi or " gaNAnAm pathi " . > > Every one of these gods will have limitations of their > longivity/existence. Even the so-called mR^ityunjaya Sankara will > have a limitation for his life time. After completion of that time > his head has to be included in the garlend of heads worn by the > maHAkAli, and another Sankara has to come to that post. After > completion of these gods what would be my fate? " punarapi jananam? " > > Perhaps you did not notice the word " other gods " in my message. > It means that he who remains after rejecting every one saying > " nEti, nEti " (the rejector). > " BhraSyad dEvagaNam, trasan munigaNm,naSyat prapncam > paSyan nirBhara Eka Eva viharatyAnanda sAndrO BhavAn }|| " > He is not your gaNApati or your subrahmaNya. Perhaps your Bhattarsab > also should have to correct his statement. > > I would like to tell you another story-- > One man went to one of his friend`s house. That friend asked him a > GKquestion. " There is a photo in my house. His son is your friend now > standing before you. Who is he in that photo? " The man said " I dont > know. Who is he? " The friend replied " It is my father. " Both of > them laughed. > That man went to his house. He went to another friend and he asked > that friend a question. " I saw a photo in my friend`s house. His > son is your friend now standing before you. Who is he in that photo? " > That friend said " I dont know. Who is he? " Instantly that man said > " It is my father " . > > I am going to send another message very shortly. Please read it. > > Yours always in tne service of the mother. > krishnarao (SrIparasuKAnandanAtha) > > ----------------------------- > > Rajarajeshwari_Kalpataru , " Sriram V Iyer " > <sriramv_iyer@> wrote: > > > > Namaskarams to all. > > I am reminded of a story that was narrated by esteemed Sri Mukkur > > Lakshmi Narasimhachariar. > > > > There was one poor Brahmin in Srirangam who used to survive on > alms - > > He knew only broken sanskrit, and a few shlokas (though > incorrectly). > > There used to be a great saint (Parasara Battar, I believe) who was > a > > great scholor and had immense respect towards this Brahmin. > Battar's > > students were surprised of their Master's respect towards this poor > > Brahmin, but not towards another pompous Sanskrit Master in that > > area. When the students approached Battar regarding the same, he > told > > them to wait for the next day and see what happens. > > > > The next day, when the 'learned' Sanskrit master went by Battar's > > class room, near Srirangam temple, Battar invited the master > > ceremoniously to the class and enquired him about the nature > > of 'ParaBrahman' - The scholor was very uncomfortable and told that > > though he was quite learned, he could not understand the > Parabrahman. > > Battar then sent him off with respects. > > > > Next, when the poor Brahmin came near the temple for begging, > Battar > > invited him to the class. The Brahmin was terrified when Battar > told > > he had a doubt and wanted them clarified. (He almost fainted). > Battar > > then with respect asked about Parabrahman. As soon as Battar asked > > the question, the Brahmin stood up and was boiling in anger. He > threw > > away the vessel had carried with him for begging. He said to > Battar - > > " Are you worthy of teaching to so many students without knowing > > this? Dont you know that Sri Ranganatha who is sleeping on the > other > > side of the wall is Parabrahman? " Saying this he angrily walked > away. > > > > Battar told his students that bookish knowledge need not translate > to > > knowledge of the Brahman. [it is quite possible to interpret this > > story in many other ways, but that would be missing the point.] > > > > > I dont understand how can any other god can give any one > > > the 'mOkSha', when there is Siva and nArayaNa who are considered > to > > > be the sole distributors of mOkSha? > > > > > > " sahasram vartantE jagati vibudhAh kSudra phaladah > > > na manyE swpnE vA tadanusaraNam tatkR^ita Palam || " > > > > > > Please don't believe any of these gods. They will always be > > saying > > > nonsensical promises. Trash every thing. > > > > When was the license to give Moksha distributed to Siva and > Narayana? > > (I feel like Karunanidhi while writing this LOL). Why did Rig Veda > > say " Satyam Ekam. Vipraha Bahuda Vadanti " ? > > > > Moksha is obtained when ego is transcended and Grace descends. > > [Ascent of Spirit and Descent of Grace are in equilibrium, > indicated > > by the star of David, which is the chakra for Sri Subrahmanya, with > > syllable Sa Ra Va Na Bha Va for each of the 6 faces of the star, > with > > Bindhu/Pranava in the center]. > > > > Masters have warned that too much knowledge is a dangerous thing - > I > > am glad to be with a limited knowledge, and gaining Grace of Father > > by humility and servitude, and not calling others' paths > as 'nonsense' > > > > I normally dont react [impulsive reaction is from the ego] - But, I > > felt that I had to register my protest since Father was kind enough > > to teach me a lesson (a couple of years ago) through a vision in > > which Sri Ganapati fixed my ego problems (when it was inflated). > > > > When Siva Himself bows to Ganaanam Pathi before He starts on any > > endevour, whom am I, an unworthy speck of dust to attempt to > protray > > Sri Ganapati's Glory? > > > > In Him, I rest. > > > > Sri Subrahmanya Rakshitoham > > Sriram V Iyer > > > > > > > > > > Rajarajeshwari_Kalpataru , " krishnarao " > > <lanka.krishnarao@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From :- krishnarao {SriparasuKanandanAtha) > > > Subject :- > > > Ucchista Ganapati Upasana / Puja Proecedure > > > > > > > > > priya mahASayah, > > > > > > in ambal group > > > >: " subrabalaji " subrabalaji@ subrabalaji > > > >Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:15 pm (PST) writes-------- > > > >Dear Members - where can I find the Puja and Upasana procedures > > for > > > >Ucchista Ganapati. I heard from some Sri Vidya Upasakas that the > > > >worship of Ucchista Ganapati is an important aspect. Also I have > > > heard > > > >from some that it is the only way to Moksha. Also I heard that > one > > > >gets rare Siddhis with such Upasana and also one has to strictly > > > >adhere to procedures. > > > > > > >Regards > > > >Balaji > > > ========================================== > > > > > > In SrIvidyArNava tantra by Sri vidyAraNya, It is clearly > > > mentioned > > > that the ucciSta gaNapati upAsana will be effective only by the > > > vAmAcAra methods. > > > > > > When any one approaches his guru for the first time, his > > > intention would be in pursuit of the supreme god and mOkSha. > > > The guru who is " swrUpa nirUpaNa hEtuh " is initiating with a > mantra > > > of some dEvata or dEva. This is because one should not/can not > say > > > any thing about god in an establishing voice. > > > " kaula pratiShTam na kuryAt " > > > > > > Even in the books like " soundarya lahari " , the way to > > > emancipation was nerrated with slOkas like " muKam bindum > > > kritwa " , " naram varSIyamsam " . They appear like mAdana prayOgAs > > to > > > attract women. Is it the advice of SankarAcarya > > > who himself is a staunch sanyAsi, for a Sishya who approaches him > > to > > > show him the way for liberation? > > > > > > Instead of trying to understand the inner esteric > objective > > of > > > the guru, > > > he is opting to master the texts, and bring out the materialistic > > > benefits like a mad man gathering all the useless stuff seen on > the > > > roadside, thinking it all so precious. > > > > > > My guru was telling " what ever is written in the > scripture, > > > even by any great sage, it would be only vAmAcara mehod. > > > It is you to search for the meaning which reminds you about your > > > own 'swarUpa'. All the mantras are the reminders of your own > > > swrUpa. If you take materialistic meaning, even the nArAyaNa > > mantra > > > or the siva mantra will never save you from the present state of > > > misery, but throws you in to the ditch of samsAra, > > > > > > " SR^iNyEva sitayA viswa carShaNih > > > pASEna pratibadhnAtyabhIkAn | iShuBhih pancaBhir dhanShEna| > > > viddhatyAdiSaktir aruNAca viswajanyA || " > > > > > > I dont understand how can any other god can give any one > > > the 'mOkSha', when there is Siva and nArayaNa who are considered > to > > > be the sole distributors of mOkSha? > > > > > > " sahasram vartantE jagati vibudhAh kSudra phaladah > > > na manyE swpnE vA tadanusaraNam tatkR^ita Palam || " > > > > > > Please don't believe any of these gods. They will always be > > saying > > > nonsensical promises. Trash every thing. > > > > > > -- > > > L.Krishnarao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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