Guest guest Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Bhakta: How does one living in the world cultivate love for Iraivan? Aya: The sadhaka living in the world must devote a day for Iraivan. Have you not seen those who go on vacation? They leave all their worldly duties and devote wholeheartedly. Such should be the way also. Have you seen those who are good at their work? These leave their problems at home and concentrate solely on their work once they arrive at their jobs. But those who are mediocre cannot perform well. If asked they will say.. " aah, I am worried about this and that..I cannot work " . Their performace suffers. What is the reason for this difference? Bhakta: The mind? Aya: Yes. One can throw the mind wholeheartedly. Another cannot. They are affected by their surroundings. They are likened to the novices. They need to take a day off and not be exposed to worldly stimuli. Then it is easy for the mind to turn towards Iraivan. Here we have a person watching action movies, gossiping, reading glossy or flimsy magazines and finally sitting down for meditation. Where can one give the mind fully? They will be like the mediocre worker only. Those who are novices should cultivate their love by devoting a day towards Iraivan. They should get up and meditate on Iraivan. Thereafter they should visit the temples and meditate thereof. They should not watch worldly programmes, gossip or read worldly books and papers. As much as possible they should get away from their worldliness. They should read about Iraivan or watch programmes about the same. Like this the mind should be made to dwell on the Iraivan. As they progress they will become like the adept worker. They can throw their mind in dhyanam regardless of what they went through during their day. Then such acts as pilgrimages and so on becomes less. After gaining the 'rasanai' (sensation) in the forehead, one's reliance on nama and rupa lessens. After getting established in samadhi once reliance on prana sakthi lessens. Likewise after getting vairagyam (steadfastness), one's need for inspiration and separation from worldliness lessens. Do you understand? Bhakta: More or less...I suppose. Aya: Have you seen the people who go and meet their lovers? They allocate a day for their date, thereafter they give their whole heart and soul directed towards their lover. One should be devoted in such a spirit. Bhakta: Must one keep away from lust during this period of devotion to Iraivan? Aya: Yes one should. One should not overindulge. Love is the true thing. Lust is temporary only. Look. A child understands love. Till death there is love. But lust comes up in between only. Love is the everlasting thing. When one gets married, one loves the form of one's spouse. When the spouse gets old and one forsakes him/her for a beautiful body, is not this wrong? Love is only skin deep. A woman or man beneath his skin is merely flesh, arteries and bones. If I present such a one will you feel lustful? So know the Mayai inherent in it. Slowly the sadhaka gains lack of lust. He is happy in his own Self. These happen gradually. When one gets temporary respite from lust one should not force oneself to enjoy it. Bhakta: Is lust such a strong barrier? Aya: Yes, it is. Truly it ties the jivatmas to the world of Mayai. One should sincerely pray to the Iraivan to overcome it. One should not suppress, one should not overindulge also. Look, let me tell you a thing. You are a man. Naturally you love a woman. But can you love a man? Bhakta: No. Aya: But the atma which inhabits the body of the woman or man is the same only. So understand the Mayai. If you were born as a female you will be attracted to a male. Bhakta: But how about gays? Aya: Even they are attracted to humans only. Are they attracted to dogs, flies or worms? Bhakta: Yuckie!!! Aya: The teats of the bitch-dog is the same as the breasts of the woman. It is made of flesh only. Yet see the power of Mayai as the atma takes different embodiements. Look, when you fantasize also the woman or man in your imagination is made of the same substance as the enjoyer - yourself. It is mind-stuff only. Your mind divides into " I " and the object of desire. Thereafter it enjoys its own self. This is the truth. But this enjoyment is inherent in form. As such it seeks fulfillment by finding the replica outside. When this is lost, it undergoes suffering and agony. The same thing which gives you pleasure, gives you pain also. This is the truth for all objects in Mayai. Power craziness, love for money (possessions) and lust - these are the strong holds of Mayai on oneself. It gives rise of Mahisasura in multitudes. Bhakta: What is the true mark of progress then? Aya: Lessening of all these qualities (of anava), the ability to compose oneself amidst adverisities, the capacity of merger into OM and sustain oneself in Sindhu thereof are the true marks. One becomes content in one's state and appreciative. One does not whine endlessly. Worldly people are much attached to sorrow. They forget their happiness and luck fast. If they suffer even a slight thing they brood over it continuously. Bhakta: Does it mean one strives less in worldly affairs? Aya: One strives but one becomes less attached to it. Finally one becomes detached altogether and offers one's effort to Iraivan. This is the sacrifice. One is unaffected by the outcome, be it failure or gain. To say this is easy. To attain it marks the man. Bhakta: What else should one do? Aya: One should love Iraivan for the sake of love. One should not have this 'I am special since I'm a sadhaka' mindset. One is human just like others. One will be open to all the adverisities that other humans also face. Remember this well. One should forsake the egotism that makes one feel as belonging to a different and superior league while others are inferior. Open the heart to Iraivan and admit one's weaknesses. That which makes us difficult to face the Iraivan and our conscience is wrong. That which attracts us to the Iraivan and makes us naturally to follow the conscience is the correct thing. Beings in Mayai find it easy to settle in lust, greed, jealousy, pride, arrogance, shame, fear, anger, disgust and ignorance. As Mayai loosens one will find it easier to be content and become less distracted. One starts to enjoy the bliss from the Self. This is not artificial happiness or self imagined happiness like what you get if your desires are fulfilled. Nor is it 'feel good' happiness. It is not also like the happiness one gets from stimulants, drugs or alcohol. This happiness is beyond all this. It overwhelms one in ecstacy. For one who has tasted this bliss all other worldly bliss appears like trifles. (Silence) Pray to the Iraivan sincerely, it will give you the strength to remain steadfast and reach the goal. Bhakta: Must one choose an ishta? Aya: Yes, one should choose a Ishta. It is the form which one likes. Bhakta: How about formless meditation? Aya: How do you do that? Bhakta: Maybe just meditating on emptiness or light? Aya: Emptiness or light is a form in itself. God with form or without form is god proper. Listen, let me tell you a thing. Meditation with namam and rupam is done till one gets rasanai (spiritual senstation) in Sindhu. This starts in the forehead and gradually blossoms at the back of the head, middle of the head and top of the head. Gradually it fills the whole head. Initially it might be a bit painful for some as the atma disassociates from the physical flesh. After one gains this rasanai one only need to concentrate the mind here till one merges into OM. So this lack of relying on the imagined form (rupa) of the Ishta is the formless meditation. Merger is aided by the help of pranam. During this time one experiences kumbhakam. The other context where the siddhars use these term is in Samadhi. When one sees the form of Iraivan it is dwaitam (duality -form). When one merges into it and sees no difference it is adwaitam (nonduality - formless). The fools without knowing this talk all these nonsense. They are attached to lust which is attachment to the gross fleshy body. Yet they talk about meditation on the formless. Bhakta: Why should one stick to one Ishta? Aya: Only the siddhan who has realized the inner Substance of all forms will have love for all forms. The sadhaka should have steadfastness to one form. It is like going up the stairs to reach the roof. If one goes halfway, comes down and thereafter repeats this with other stairways one will never reach the roof. One should reach the roof first. Thereafter one can see the other stairways which lead to the one roof. Bhakta: Though you have said all this, many a time I fail. I give in to my passions. Aya: It is okay. Though one falls a million times, one must attempt again and again. One must not be disheartened. But do not take this as a licence to indulge in everything and anything under the garb of spirituality. Remember, as one sows one shall reap. Don't think you are untouchable just because you now have become spiritual. Bhakta: But the vedantam... Aya (interrupts): Look. Can one understand the Iraivan fully? Bhakta: Why? Can't one? Aya: In school, what was your toughest subject? Bhakta: Physics, I suppose. Aya: So you see, one can't even know about the nature fully, yet one talks about understanding the One who has created nature. Even scientists are baffled at many things. Look. What I want to say is this. First find out about the Iraivan. Then you can gradually understand about the Iraivan. To understand you I have to seek you out. Rather if I ask around, some will say, " he is like this " , another will say, " he is like that " , so all these are unnecessary. First seek out, understanding follows later. Bhakta: But some people say there is no God, they are atheists. They say the creation is imperfect. For example the organ of evacuation and reproduction is side by side. Hence they say this is not intelligent design. Aya: If they were born as animals they will not even be able to think. Iraivan has given a little intelligence and these people speak thus. Listen, what is the point of arguing. Let those who disbelieve and those who believe for the sake of titbits do whatever they want. Bhakta: What are the titbits (smiling)? Aya: Worldly goodies. (Laughter) Iraivan has two faces in relation to the jivatma. One is of Mayai. This is transitory. Another is Vidyai, this is eternal. It can be compared to the moon which reflects the light of the sun and the sun itself which shines by its own light. Again it can be compared to one who is dependent and another who is independent. Here we live in the world of Mayai. It is based on pain and pleasure, good and bad. It is duality. It is transitory. It is like the waves. The waves belong to the ocean, not the ocean to the waves. These are symbolism given by siddhars long ago. So a jivatma can choose to be in Mayai or Vidyai. It is up to it. What the Iraivan is in itself is indescribable. The world is limited. Iraivan has created beings with limitations. Hence they appear imperfect. Iraivan has created gravity. Hence the food eaten passes to the lower intestines with lesser effort moving from up to down. Likewise for the foetus to grow it has to be in the abdomen. Can it be placed in the legs or head? By the force of gravity, excretion and parturition (giving of birth) is facilitated. Hence both this organs appear side by side. To give the seed likewise the male body has an organ in the lower abdomen. This facilitates the copulative act. You see, Iraivan cannot be proven like some material things. You can't take a microscope or telescope to see Iraivan. It is the source of all. How could the source be deciphered by that which relies on it (the source) for its own existence? The potential to exhibit consciousness is inherent in the universe as the universe is sustained by the Iraivan. It is just like water boiling at a certain temperature or electricity produced in an electrical field. When certain patterns occur, certain qualities occur. Likewise when the material atoms are arranged in a certain manner (as genes, genetic material), the quality of life and awareness are exhibited. What exists only can be shown. What doesn't exist cannot be. Bhakta: A modern day siddhar has said that divine light will flow and it can be transmitted for world goodness. That the god is now actively participating in the upliftment of the world. He said the new age is dawning. Aya: Can one become a siddhan just because one calls oneself so and ties a clothe closing the head like shridi sai baba? You see the world will be the world. It will have good and bad. The quest for Iraivan has nothing to do with saving the world and so on. It is knowing one's true Self behind all these. If you want to do service, just do it. Why bring faith and all that? Help a few souls without any expectations of money, recognition nor even punyam. Put your own effort and money. Rather than this why bring in spirituality and all this. The Iraivan has created the world. It will destroy it after some time. Then it will create another. Golden age and Dark age will alternate from time to time as long as there is greed, jealousy etc. Sometimes it is precipitated due to famine, epidemics and nature itself. It creates wants and finally wars. These people dabble in some spirituality, they read much, pose as gurus and finally teach mumbo jumbo stuff. All these will get the appropriate from Yaman. Bhakta: Which path am I to choose? The renouncer or the householder? Aya: What is your temperament? Choose accordingly. God can be realized in the world or away from it. Here 'world' means civilization. One who is in the world must do his duty and seek the Iraivan. It is surely hard to do this. Iraivan will see this effort and bless. A renouncer must not even look upon a woman and get immersed in worldliness. If not he will become tainted. He owes no duties or responsibilities to anyone though. Marriage is like the 'laddu'. If you don't eat it you will be tempted. You have to keep away from it if you have renounced. If you are not a renoucer god will give you contentment. You will get blisters by eating this 'laddu' (laughter). Then one becomes content..one thinks, " ooh, this much only is there to it, there's nothing extraordinary at all. " So for the worldly sadhu, he is not much affected by being immersed in it. Bhakta: But regardless of being a renouncer or householder, one will become steadfast upon mukthi as you have said. Then why should one be afraid of contact? Aya: True, true. But one does this to set an example. The sadhakas are of varying degrees. They will ape the sadhu's life. Hence they will get destroyed. To set an example only one must live like this. For example Ramakrishna is a householder. Hence he never wore the ochre robe or any robe to depict renunciation. He wore a black bordered 'vesti' and slick black slippers. But look at Ramana, look at his austerity. He just wore a loinclothe. But both men are giants of spirituality. Their knowledge is truly deep. However so look at the clown gurus of today. They claim to be a renunciate, wear the ochre robe but tag along with their wife. Bhakta: Yes, like those from the Devi Mandir. Aya: Truly they are barbarians. Bhakta: Why must both follow different living styles? Aya: When you live in the city you must pay tax to go along the roads. When you live in the outskirts you use the outer ring road devoid of tax. But both travel to the same destination (Iraivan) only. (Laughter) Son, work from where you are. Judge where you stand and work from there. Some like to talk big about helping and so on. But they think many times to take out a single cent. Likewise some think they are beyond the ritual stage, but they can't even concentrate their thoughts more than ten minutes. Their mind wanders here and there. So do not be like the 'kili' (parrot) in Meenakshi's hands. Bhakta: (Laughter). What's the story with the 'kili'? Aya: The word 'kili' is an interplay of double meaning. 'Kili' also means to tear. It means one should tear the anava and one's false hypocrisy and realize Iraivan. The deeper meaning is the nature of the 'kili' (parrot) itself. The parrot only 'parrots' (repeats) what it has heard. Likewise the sadhaka repeats what is heard and read. He has not yet assimilated it. The parrot will shout " hello, hello " , but when pounced upon by a cat it will give its natural sound " awk!awk! " . Likewise many people talk big and boast about their bhakti. Upon some time they will say, oh..i need a tangible experience. Oh, my bhakti seems to be waning and so on. They just need an emotional prop. After they get their worldly desire they will forget about all their bhakti. Or their bhakti is for show-off. They like to talk big and boast about their depth of bhakti,...they don't know a damn thing but they want to share their knowledge. It is like a competition for them, 'i am right, you are wrong' is their motto behind their bhakti. If they can't get what they want they will blame the god. For them if they lose their god also loses. Such is the way of the clowns. And these talk about bhakti. Being blind, they seek to lead others. Some keep on reasoning and reasoning. They reason till their death. What will one gain by saying, 'the chocolate is tasty, its made of cocoa and sweet, hence its tasty " . Will one know the true taste of chocolate by saying such and arguing whether the chocolate is square, black or brown? One should eat it, then only will one know. Some only have showed a small devotion to Iraivan, yet they think their bhakti is big. These are emotional crybabies. They just need to get a life. Thereafter they look down on others who pray to a different form of god. They are fools. Look, let us take a person who is a Saiva or a Vainava. He is isolated. If he prays to Iraivan sincerely will he thereafter become wasted? If he persists definitely he will finally reach the Amai-Apan also. Bhakta: But you have said some protocols have become false? Aya: What are protocols? They are symbolization of methods by which one has reached Iraivan and the understanding of Iraivan itself fetched by the siddhan. They have crystallized to become the symbolizations, protocols and rituals. After they became appropriated the true meaning has been lost. So what? One who has sincerity and purity of heart will surely rediscover them. Iraivan will surely reveal itself. The substance is more important than form. A cow mother expresses love. Humans do the same. A japanese mother and an Indian mother sing different lullabies to their babies. But the core is love proper. It is symbolized differently. One must know the alphabets. Then only one can know the content of the letter. The alphabet is the symbolization. If I spell the word apple as a-p-p-l- e, does it mean the apple looks like this words (forms)? But immediately one knows it is the apple which is meant. Different cultures have different symbolizations. But it is the Indhu Matham which having the most seers have the most pregnant of symbols and expressions (of the Truth). The fools do not know the alphablet. They merely follow it and without knowing its true essence die without gaining mukthi. The clowns who follow them also get the same. Bhakta: Some say that there are 'siru deiva valipadu' (lesser deities worship) and so on? They say it regarding those who pray to Kali or Ayannar. They say it is Pagan. Aya: They are clowns. There is only one God. It is up to the people how they want to approach it. Some people conceive of god as a person. They think that the God is their grand old wise man, some mighty warrior or so on. It is up to them. The educated fools look down on this simple devotion. If one thinks deeply it is because one feels the god is infinite. Hence it is childish if one conceives god as some being who has lived on earth. But do you think God cares of what one thinks of it? First do your duty in the world. Be of benefit for others. It is enough. But if you ask this people they will say, " oh look at them, they are praying upon some warrior soul telling it to be god. They ask it to solve their worldly problems. They sacrifice their goats to the god. " But what are the so called sophisticated ones are doing. They spend their money being burnt in homas and add to global warming. They will do this and that ritual. And what is the point of all that? It is to ask the same thing from Iraivan only. One (the pagan) asks the titbits (worldy goods) cooking food on the fire. The other asks the same throwing the eatables, twigs and ghee into the fire. Both remain ignorant proper of the true Iraivan. Bhakta: But the pagans also fight with the vedantins? Aya: Yes, it is like having two idiots. Each calls the other fool not knowing one to be the same. Have you seen the oil-fools? Bhakta: (Laughter) The oil-fool? What is the story behind it? Aya: When a new temple is consecrated they let the public to put oil on the statues. The public line up to put the oil. They are encouraged to put money also. But the priests will be at the other corner doing homa. For them the god right now is not in the statue, its in the kumbham (water pot) they keep near the homa. But the priests are intent on the money of the people only. Hence the kumbabishegam. Finally, they will consecrate the idols. They will say they have performed 'prana pratishta' which means giving of life to the idols. Thereafter the foolish people after whose money they (the priests and temple owners) were after are sent outside. They cannot touch the idols anymore. Now they have become impure. Yet the fools don't feel any shame at this indirect humiliation. Bhakta: Is it untrue then? Aya: What is untrue? Bhakta: The prana pratistha? Aya: Prana pratistha means reaching the Ishta (Iraivan) by the help of the prana Vayu. It is achieved by dhyanam only. How can one make Iraivan enter the stone? Is one so powerful? Moreover Iraivan pervades everywhere. It is Its (Iraivan's) Mayai which clothes Itself and makes the jivatma feel devoid of Its presence. Look, is not the Iraivan called Paramatma? Bhakta: Yes. Aya: Which is more potent, the atma or paramatma? Bhakta: The paramatma. Aya: Yes for atmas are sparks of paramatma. Now can the stupid priests make the atma of a dead man re-enter his body? Bhakta: No. Aya: He can't even make the atma of anyone move in or out from the gross fleshy body. What to say of others, he can't even perform this act on his own atma. He will have to die to leave his body. Hence how can he make the paramatma move into the stone idol. Is this not foolish? If a person can't even lift up a dumbell weighing five kilos, can he lift a hundred kilos with ease? People do not use their heads. It is because they want to bribe the Iraivan. They feel by contributing to these stupid rituals and so on the Iraivan will bless them. They do not know that one needs to clean one's inner self. Everyone expects goodness. But they fail to give it to others. Yet they talk of spirituality and so on. They are fools. Day and night a rascal has dirty thoughts. But when there is a slight vulgar word spoken by another, he will say, " Oh..why are you so vulgar? " It is like these only with these clowns. Bhakta: A while ago you have said that one should not look down on another's ideal. It is up to the individual to choose his path. Yet you have scolded their ideals. Aya: Have I scolded their ideal? What I have scolded is their own conduct. You seem to have been confused in this. The rascals who manipulate others to make money using spirituality and the morons who talk of spirituality while remaining rogues internally are whom I slight. I have seen the roads. I have seen the roof. I know the dead ends. Hence I advise. Bhakta: What about those who give their guru 'datchinai' (diksha) of ten percent of their salary? Aya: By giving ten percent does one's sin go away. Is god so cheap as ten percent of your earnings? Look, the guru is a sannyasi. What is the need for him to ask ten percent of the earnings of his disciples? It is more than enough for him to meet his paltry ends. Even many worldly people suffer with less earnings. And this fellow calls himself a sannyasi and travels in big cars, planes and stays in suites. He is a rogue. Giving ten percent to a needy person gets more punya than this clown. If he has realized the Iraivan he won's ask thus, but he is a fool and he is intent in making money. His gurudom has become the means for him to leave comfortably. His ego also gets pampered by all the devotion his disciples show him. They appear meek and humble in front of him. At the back they will practice the superior-inferior hierarchy amongst themselves. If the guru is living in the world, then what need has he of money from others, he should work. The sannyasi should accept that much for his bare minimum upkeep. He should not go beyond. Then what does his adopting the garb of renunciation (ochre robe) means? This is how the rascal plays on the people's tendency for bribery and makes the illegitamate appear legitimate. That is your ten percent 'datchinai' (diksha). (Silence) Bhakta: I want to ask you another one more thing. They say the dead if you burn them immediately without keeping them for a while (according to a religious injunction) are going to become ghosts? Aya: Karmam is divided into that which you experience and the fresh karmam you perform. A new soul starts to do fresh karmam. Thereafter as it matures he will experience the effect of his karmam and do fresh karmam also. If he has performed much karmam, the jivatma gets stuck into the thick situation of karmam where there is no outlet. He faces the consequences. Only thereafter he has room to maneouvre again. Like this the world is a cycle. One is up, then one travels down. Doing much punyam one gets a birth as a rich person. Thereafter one performs much nonsense, acts with pride and thereafter goes down the drain again (suffers the consequences). Only the souls which seek Iraivan for its sake get to escape the cycle. By the grace of Iraivan, they gain desirelessness and thereafter don't perform fresh karmam. They only exhaust the karmam that is due. This is from their previous activity. Upon exhaustion of the karmam they escape. Hence a soul becomes a ghost (evil birth) or whatever depending on the bad karmam it has done only. It will not become so due to the body being burnt immediately upon death. For a soul which has not got mukthi, it cannot collect the prana shakti from the dead body. It is immaterial whether it is burnt earlier or later. It gains the shakti from the new body only. Hence only it cannot remember of its past. In days of yore the technology of medicine is unlike today. Some people enter comatose like state and have reduced respiration. It can be due to some disease or poison. They even have a weak pulse. Due to lack of knowledge the general advice is to keep the body for a few days. Sometimes some people are known to revive as the life force revives the body. Only this became the act of preserving the body for a few days. Moreover the relatives from far and near also come to visit. One's future rebirth depends on the culminative effects of one's karmam only. Not the time they cremate or bury the dead physical body. What can the body do? It is the atma which resides in it that does good and bad through it. Only for the siddhan the fresh karmam performed stops. Do you know how it is? If you lift your foot from the oil pedal the car will only move a few distance and stop. The lifting of foot is the cessation of performing new karmam. It is difficult to do this while in this earth (bhulogam). Hence many souls which has merged into OM continue their journey from magara logam. That is why the Gayathri mentions three logam only (bhu, bhuvah, svahah). Beings in these realms need Shakti from Savitur (Sun). Beings above this are liberated from this dependence. Only a few souls incarnate on bhulogam and reach their destination. None else can do this feat of achieving while on earth. But one can work up to the extent of gaining birth in magara logam. One matures from there. Hence these seven planes of existence. One has to go through all to reach Iraivan. So they say man has 'seven existences'. The bible says god created the world in seven days. The Mussulman says the prophet travelled through the seven skies to reach God. These are the faint echoes of the real meaning taught by the siddhars. Only the siddhan can cross the seven while on earth. Bhakta: Will the siddhars reveal themselves to people at large? Aya: No, they cannot. It is not like the yesteryears. And the human population was less too. Men were generally guileless in the past. Today man has become a master of manipulation. He has to be so to survive in today's ruthless world. Hence by the grace of Iraivan only a select few will come to know of the siddhan. But by siddhan will soon hide himself when he has done the task. (Silence) Bhakta: I have one question. It seems that some siddhars have asked the body to be cremated rather tban burnt. This I got from a credible source. Aya: What does it matter whether the body is burnt or buried? The elements wll return to the elements. But burning it makes it take longer to enter nature's recycling. For life feeds on life. The buried body returns to the recyclable elements reusable by other life forms. For worms feed on it and plants derive nurtrients thereof from the soil. It is an organic process. So some siddhars would have condoned burying. That is all. Bhakta: Okay, one more last question. Can one achieve the deathless state using this body. For some say they use mercury or some chants and live forever. Aya: What is the point of living in the physical cage for eons. It still gives pain. Moreover all jivatmas enter the physical plane again. Only its form differs. Deathlessness is to the spirit. The jadam (physical body) belongs to Iraivan. Once the gem is gained, what is the need for the cast (body). Once the food (jnana palam- fruit of jnanam) served on the banana leaf is eaten, what is the purpose of the leaf? It will be thrown away only. There is no need whether it remains or not. It has served its purpose. Only the fools seek this kind of immortal elixir and so on. Look.. the physical body we have can only survive in cetain atmospheric pressure. If one goes to the moon where there is less pressure, one needs to wear a suit, if not one will break. Likewise the bodily organs perform optimally in the earth's gravity. When they go to space the muscles waste away. Hence the astronauts do exercise to maintain their muscles. In space there is not much workload for the muscles and they waste away. Such is the pitiful state of the body. And these rascals are telling one can achieve liberation with one's physical body. It is like the story of the fool who wanted to go to heaven without dying. One can't even live in outer space with this body, yet one talks nonsense of entering the non-material spiritual plane with the body. All these are against the spirit of the true siddhars. These are idiots!! It is by the help of the gross fleshy body one reaches Kaivalyam. Thereafter one becomes independent of it. Anybody who says they can reach Kaivalyam (motcham/moksha) with the physical body is like saying something stupid such as one can eat by placing food on the lap and laughing at it. How can one eat so?.. one eats by putting the food in the mouth and swallowing it only. This is what we mean as the blind leading the blind. Finally all these rogues fall into Yama's hands and get squashed (die without jnanam) only. ========= For more kindly visit: ayannar/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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