OBJECTION TO: Who is this KY Teacher?

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam,

On principle I object to Sat Avtar's dismissive allegations that have all the

tone and arrogance of a witch hunt. This is slander and judgment in absentia.

I request a full retraction from Sat Avatar. If she has any issues or

allegations to bring forward about anyone, let it be done with fairness and

equanimity. Her email in its current form is poisonous and diametrically

opposed to the way Yogi Bhajan taught and communicated. There is a way to

express dissent appropriately. " This way " is so far off the mark it is shocking

to be posted here.

 

May the long time Sun shine upon you -

Krishna Singh

 

*********************************

 

Posted by: " sat_avtar_kaur " myralorey sat_avtar_kaur

Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:16 am (PST)

 

 

 

In my research of this teacher, I have found considerable negativity, about his

teaching methods, and business practice.

 

He is not certified by 3ho or Yoga Alliance. My information says that they both

threw him out.

 

He is someone to stay away from.

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam,

 

You are entitled to your perceptions, Krishna Singh, as I am to mine. It you,

who is using the words " tone and arrogance of a witch hunt'. These are your

perceptions, they have nothing to do with me.

 

I have had nothing, but the greatest respect for you. Apparently, that is

mis-placed, on my part. What happened to your training in NVC?

 

Would it not have been better, that you asked, for proof or where I came up with

the idea?

 

Oh, by the way, I got a private email, from a Kundalini Yoga Teacher, who warned

me about this man. So not everyone, thinks the way you do.

 

You talk about fairness, but I don't think you are being fair. I did not

'slander' anyone. I stated an opinion. You think that my little email is

slander?

 

I know, what slander is, because, I have been slandered, by a Kundalini Yoga

Teacher. My Kundalini Yoga Teacher, the second and last one, I have ever had. I

loved her classes. I actually thought we were friends. My assumption. That

Kundalini Yoga Teacher sent an email, to a new student, who had only two classes

and was a friend of mine at that time.

 

I have never been so deeply hurt, as I have been, and still am, with what this

teacher said about me, based on her assumptions.

 

I have worked on releasing this, since May of 2007. And, I still can't resolve

it.

 

This is what slander is:

 

> ms lorey

> Thu, 31 May 2007 14:40:11 EDT

>

> Hi,

>

> I've been cruising the web, Google-ing. I'm not a professional

> psychologist but it appears to me that Myra is a Borderline Personality

Disorder

> person (BPD). There are many sites that define the 9 symptoms of BPD.

> Wikepedia is a good place to start if you're interested. If you continue to

associate with

> her I want you to be careful. Her reality is very distorted--not her fault.

 

(signature removed)

 

Krishna Singh, you know all about this. Because you were involved. (and another

teacher as well)

 

Now, if I leave this statement as it is, a lot people are going to wonder about

you, too. But, I am not going to do that. I am going to clarify. Krishna Singh

offered to meditate, but at that time, we could bring it off.

 

And the situation lingers, she does not look me in the eye, or speak, if we

attend the same workshop. I considered at the time, taking her to court, and

suing but, I decided that since I knew so little about Kundalini Yoga, that I

would take that route in resolving this. I had an 8 month heavy chant practice.

I am still chanting. It is not with me every day, but it keeps coming up. Kirtan

Kriya is quite helpful.

 

So, Krishna Singh, you are worried about " Who is this KY Teacher? " But you did

not counteract with positive, upbeat information on this person. Why not, if you

are so worried, on principle.

 

Here are the urls that was sent to me and others I found, check it out for

yourself, make your own decisions.

 

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/4/2598.html?1180529399

 

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/339.html?1121347574

 

http://omgili.com/jmp/jHIAmI4hxg9d1iQWAe70cRWtshCsrVe5ARhKqCYXd4gVvcMel6P4duGOP9\

KDbrZr0CmVjiUEsYXHX46LeZ_CfdwLWeJQnfF0VAYl.2tdjITDcxYEjW825uIL24h5q8WnY7cJBSPU6R\

fJxZgSUZ2Q4Rbbf09.zZOZXSKuUMmE1u3NGgwxGBP4sF3spTSrtchktN6j_Cuoem8WACnwoNCkDHHC72\

UtK4UxwVvZ_W_UtKA-

 

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Seminar-Programs/Yogi-Akal-Internatio/yogi-akal-inte\

rnational-school-m2489.htm

Report: #280904

 

Sat Avtar Kaur

Myra Lorey

 

ps- long reflection on this 'stuff' and some other weird experiences, I had with

Kundalini Yoga Teachers, (the first 5 I ever met) has led me to feel that there

is a lack in the Teachers Training. None of the 5 teachers, were able to use the

word 'No' or take charge of the conversations and emails.

 

One of them, sent an email, the night before, stating how much fun we were going

to have, the next day, I got an email from her, stating that I was not on a high

enough gracious level for her to deal with, and it would take me, 10 lifetimes

to reach her level, and even then, she did not want to know me. I have no idea,

what she was talking about, why she sent it - No- would have worked -- very

childish. oops, is that slander, too?

 

After class, one day this teacher said she could give me some kriyas that would

overcome the negativity in my life. It took me about 5 questions, to find out

what she was basing this remark on. It seems that in class, I said 'ouch' and

'ouch', when I pushed myself too hard. I told her that pain is neither positive

nor negative. It just is.

 

pps.

There is a Teacher in Seattle, that gives classes on Compassionate Communication

combined with NVC. According to Nonviolent Communication founder Marshall

Rosenberg, empathy is a respectful understanding of what others are

experiencing. NVC offers us concrete tools to increase our skills in empathic

listening which result in effective resolution of conflicts, bridging of

ideological divides, and wise use of our resources on personal, national and

global levels.

 

" Rather than getting caught up in the story the speaker is telling, with

NVC-type empathic listening, we listen for two underlying, key components:

feelings and needs. Listening for feelings and needs will keep us focused,

centered and open, rather than being drawn into judgment of either the speaker

or the people the speaker may be judging. "

 

I think all Kundalini Yoga Teachers should be required to take a class in NVC.

My perception.

[Guest guest]

I agree with Krishna. I love Sat Avtar and all the great work she does. Even

though this is advertised at 3HO and IKYTA, it's taken on a life of

its own, and its ethic is to be as inclusive and open as possible, just as Yogi

Bhajan said would be the characteristic of the emerging Aquarian Age. We don't

want to use man-made rules, such as IKYTA guidelines, or any other rules made by

self-proclaimed rulers, by, as we libertarians tend to disparage, " Information

Cartels " , to sideline any value from any valuable person.

 

If anything, if anyone knows this " controversial " yogi, INVITE HIM TO JOIN THIS

GROUP! I've gotten several " mavericks " to join this group, and our group's

value has increased as a result. Yogi Bhajan created HUMANOLOGY out of his

experience and knowledge - that's the very definition of the act of an

entrepreneur (and why " Intellectual Property " is such a dangerous concept): if

all an entrepreneur does is take previous expertise and repackage it in a more

valuable way, that's perfectly legitimate. It should be encouraged!

 

If yogic masters want to take Yogi Bhajan's teachings and repackage them in a

more consumer-friendly way, why shouldn't we embrace that? At the same time,

most of us like how 3HO and IKYTA are doing their own repackaging, since it's a

wonderful group effort to stay as faithful as possible to the " original intent "

of the Master. Kundalini Yoga, and Yogi Bhajan's humanology, are huge worlds.

Some of it is trademarked, most of it is preserved by the institutions whose

work should be praised, but in any effort there will be mavericks with a lot of

creative energy that also should be honored.

 

Sat nam,

Amar Atma

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " sevaplace01 " <krishna wrote:

>

> Sat Nam,

> On principle I object to Sat Avtar's dismissive allegations that have all the

tone and arrogance of a witch hunt. This is slander and judgment in absentia.

I request a full retraction from Sat Avatar. If she has any issues or

allegations to bring forward about anyone, let it be done with fairness and

equanimity. Her email in its current form is poisonous and diametrically

opposed to the way Yogi Bhajan taught and communicated. There is a way to

express dissent appropriately. " This way " is so far off the mark it is shocking

to be posted here.

>

> May the long time Sun shine upon you -

> Krishna Singh

>

> *********************************

>

> Posted by: " sat_avtar_kaur " myralorey sat_avtar_kaur

> Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:16 am (PST)

>

>

>

> In my research of this teacher, I have found considerable negativity, about

his teaching methods, and business practice.

>

> He is not certified by 3ho or Yoga Alliance. My information says that they

both threw him out.

>

> He is someone to stay away from.

>

[Guest guest]

Sat nam.

 

I want to hang out with this yoga teacher (although, a teacher is technically

not a friend, they are our spiritual chisels...), he just seems cool.

 

By the way, in your second link:

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/339.html?1121347574

 

About a 1/5th of the way down the page getting into the posts, most of these

allegations are refuted and exposed as fraudulent, or more likely what they are;

simply dissatisfied people (most of whom posted under " anonymous " ) angrily

spreading allegations in an online forum because they have no other capacity for

resolving their emotions or finding an outlet for their thoughts. Maybe they

just couldn't deal with the chisel. Or maybe they had legitimate gripes. I can't

be sure, but that's just my opinion.

 

It reminds me directly of the whole rick ross and hindu based hegemony over

kundalini yoga stuff we see on wikipedia.

 

I just want to say a couple things... Yogi Bhajan gave us some rules by which to

communicate. I've been teaching several communication classes, as well as doing

kriyas and meditations for this topic, and I'm working through it... G.O.D.

knows I'm trying and hopefully improving all the time... I just want to be a

good student.

 

But if you look out in the world, it's a huge problem... That's why 99% of

politicans are lawyers, right - because they have to use their words properly -

or wars and genocides start, yes? How many people die each year because of

inflammatory words spoken over radio airwaves? I don't think you could count it.

 

And, so for a better world and life, we all are working on this, yes?

 

So, here are the 5 UNIVERSAL Rules of Communication:

 

1. You are communicating for a better tomorrow, not to spoil today.

 

2. Whatever you are going to say is going to live forever, and you have to live

through it. (Therefore you have to understand that you have to take care so that

you need not live through the mud of your own communication.)

 

3. One wrong word said can do much more wrong than you can even imagine or

estimate.

 

4. Don't turn a chance word spoken during a communication into a war.

 

5. When you communicate, keep in mind that you will have to communicate again.

(Don't make the road tough.)

 

These are the rules. - Yogi Bhajan

 

For your records, something to print out and post on your fridge, or whatever,

carry in your pocket, I have created a PDF that you can download with one click

that has these rules, plus a few choice words from Yogi Bhajan on the power of

speech:

 

http://www.fatehsinghyoga.com/words/5_rules_of_commincation.pdf

 

Feel free to download, print, spread, share, read, memorize...

 

[taken from his book " Harmonious Communication - From the course " Human

Sexuality " Spain, 1986]

 

Yours in Peace,

Fateh Singh

 

http://www.fatehsinghyoga.com

[Guest guest]

Dear Sat Avatar, Sat Nam -

What a wonderful moment for learning we're in right now. Thank you for

participating.

 

Simply put, in the teaching of Kundalini Yoga as Yogi Bhajan taught, " Slander "

is a verbal attack, negative allegations, about anyone who is NOT present in

order to know what is being circulated about him (or her), and without

opportunity to offer correcting communication to these allegations. This is why

there is a constitutional guarantee to hear and rebut negative allegations by

facing witnesses who bring such allegations forward.

 

In my previous email I confronted you for exactly doing this. I confronted you

on a point of communication that is CRUCIAL for having truth based dialogue in

any context. It had nothing to do with whether on not your allegations are true

or false. It has everything to do with the fairness and honesty of the PROCESS

by which any social system can maintain a pure and neutral medium for mutual

understanding.

 

Confronting your statements is not a hostile act toward you. IT is also clear

that you are reacting at this time.

 

" Gossip " (as Yogi Bhajan taught) is the sharing and circulation in social

circles (and oftentimes " enjoyment " ) of such un-processed, unproven allegations,

" as if they were true. " Gossip can easily become a feeding frenzy upon lies and

untruth, to the great harm for the social system in which gossip and slander

occurs. Since Sat Sangat (true and beloved community) is one of the most

primordial foundations of Dharma, anyone who is qualified to consider themselves

a lover of Dharma actually betrays the Guru and Dharma by tolerating and NOT

confronting slander and gossip. That is simply the rather unpleasant task I

assumed when I wrote my brief and succinct comments to you. I don't mind being

" the bad person " here. At least your reactions are being directed to someone

who is present and able to respond (as I am). Agia Akal Singh is not here. So

I'm happy to speak on his and everyone's behalf, that " even if " he has done a

wrong thing, your method of dealing with it was inappropriate. Neither am I

slandering you by lodging my objection directly to you, without secrecy, in the

very context in which you spoke of him. You made this public.

 

This would be a textbook opportunity for some other, non-interested, skilled,

neutral party to facilitate and mediate this engagement between dueling

allegations. I have no interest in pursuing this, one on one, without

facilitation. I am, at this moment, simply clarifying and reiterating my first

objection. There is no requirement to " blow kisses " before objecting in group

conversation. There is, however, a requirement " to be in and of a neutral

mind. " I have no interest in the outcome of this discussion, other than to

resolve and sustain a truthful, neutrally minded forum for our mutual

explorations and investigations of insights and values within an honest and fair

environment.

 

There is a process model for allowing opposing viewpoints to be valued in

finding deeper, resolving insights. This is the essence of Quaker protocol and

meeting. It's a protocol that is deeply compatible with what you have said

about Non-Violent Communication as taught by Marshall Rosenberg. Unless someone

can assist by pointing the contrary, I believe that I am and have been well

within compliance with both systems of negotiation and facilitation in speaking

here as I have at this time. I am very open to qualified facilitation, as

neither party to a dispute of truth and value can neutrally sustain the middle

ground for having a balanced resolution.

 

thank you for bringing such a rich situation to our shared reality. It's quite

wonderful to have such an opportunity for serious exploration of " how can one go

from here. "

 

Love and Blessings,

Krishna Singh

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " sat_avtar_kaur " <myralorey wrote:

>

> Sat Nam,

>

> You are entitled to your perceptions, Krishna Singh, as I am to mine. It you,

who is using the words " tone and arrogance of a witch hunt'. These are your

perceptions, they have nothing to do with me.

>

> I have had nothing, but the greatest respect for you. Apparently, that is

mis-placed, on my part. What happened to your training in NVC?

>

> Would it not have been better, that you asked, for proof or where I came up

with the idea?

>

> Oh, by the way, I got a private email, from a Kundalini Yoga Teacher, who

warned me about this man. So not everyone, thinks the way you do.

>

> You talk about fairness, but I don't think you are being fair. I did not

'slander' anyone. I stated an opinion. You think that my little email is

slander?

>

> I know, what slander is, because, I have been slandered, by a Kundalini Yoga

Teacher. My Kundalini Yoga Teacher, the second and last one, I have ever had. I

loved her classes. I actually thought we were friends. My assumption. That

Kundalini Yoga Teacher sent an email, to a new student, who had only two classes

and was a friend of mine at that time.

>

> I have never been so deeply hurt, as I have been, and still am, with what this

teacher said about me, based on her assumptions.

>

> I have worked on releasing this, since May of 2007. And, I still can't resolve

it.

>

> This is what slander is:

>

> > ms lorey

> > Thu, 31 May 2007 14:40:11 EDT

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I've been cruising the web, Google-ing. I'm not a professional

> > psychologist but it appears to me that Myra is a Borderline Personality

Disorder

> > person (BPD). There are many sites that define the 9 symptoms of BPD.

> > Wikepedia is a good place to start if you're interested. If you continue to

associate with

> > her I want you to be careful. Her reality is very distorted--not her fault.

>

> (signature removed)

>

> Krishna Singh, you know all about this. Because you were involved. (and

another teacher as well)

>

> Now, if I leave this statement as it is, a lot people are going to wonder

about you, too. But, I am not going to do that. I am going to clarify. Krishna

Singh offered to meditate, but at that time, we could bring it off.

>

> And the situation lingers, she does not look me in the eye, or speak, if we

attend the same workshop. I considered at the time, taking her to court, and

suing but, I decided that since I knew so little about Kundalini Yoga, that I

would take that route in resolving this. I had an 8 month heavy chant practice.

I am still chanting. It is not with me every day, but it keeps coming up. Kirtan

Kriya is quite helpful.

>

> So, Krishna Singh, you are worried about " Who is this KY Teacher? " But you

did not counteract with positive, upbeat information on this person. Why not, if

you are so worried, on principle.

>

> Here are the urls that was sent to me and others I found, check it out for

yourself, make your own decisions.

>

> http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/4/2598.html?1180529399

>

> http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/339.html?1121347574

>

>

http://omgili.com/jmp/jHIAmI4hxg9d1iQWAe70cRWtshCsrVe5ARhKqCYXd4gVvcMel6P4duGOP9\

KDbrZr0CmVjiUEsYXHX46LeZ_CfdwLWeJQnfF0VAYl.2tdjITDcxYEjW825uIL24h5q8WnY7cJBSPU6R\

fJxZgSUZ2Q4Rbbf09.zZOZXSKuUMmE1u3NGgwxGBP4sF3spTSrtchktN6j_Cuoem8WACnwoNCkDHHC72\

UtK4UxwVvZ_W_UtKA-

>

>

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Seminar-Programs/Yogi-Akal-Internatio/yogi-akal-inte\

rnational-school-m2489.htm

> Report: #280904

>

> Sat Avtar Kaur

> Myra Lorey

>

> ps- long reflection on this 'stuff' and some other weird experiences, I had

with Kundalini Yoga Teachers, (the first 5 I ever met) has led me to feel that

there is a lack in the Teachers Training. None of the 5 teachers, were able to

use the word 'No' or take charge of the conversations and emails.

>

> One of them, sent an email, the night before, stating how much fun we were

going to have, the next day, I got an email from her, stating that I was not on

a high enough gracious level for her to deal with, and it would take me, 10

lifetimes to reach her level, and even then, she did not want to know me. I

have no idea, what she was talking about, why she sent it - No- would have

worked -- very childish. oops, is that slander, too?

>

> After class, one day this teacher said she could give me some kriyas that

would overcome the negativity in my life. It took me about 5 questions, to find

out what she was basing this remark on. It seems that in class, I said 'ouch'

and 'ouch', when I pushed myself too hard. I told her that pain is neither

positive nor negative. It just is.

>

> pps.

> There is a Teacher in Seattle, that gives classes on Compassionate

Communication combined with NVC. According to Nonviolent Communication founder

Marshall Rosenberg, empathy is a respectful understanding of what others are

experiencing. NVC offers us concrete tools to increase our skills in empathic

listening which result in effective resolution of conflicts, bridging of

ideological divides, and wise use of our resources on personal, national and

global levels.

>

> " Rather than getting caught up in the story the speaker is telling, with

NVC-type empathic listening, we listen for two underlying, key components:

feelings and needs. Listening for feelings and needs will keep us focused,

centered and open, rather than being drawn into judgment of either the speaker

or the people the speaker may be judging. "

>

> I think all Kundalini Yoga Teachers should be required to take a class in NVC.

My perception.

>

[Guest guest]

Greetings all,I have to make some comment about this whole slander issue. I mean, the reality is, on a spiritual path, there are teachers out there who have not really healed themselves and so sometimes will project and be quite damaging to their students. There is a difference between slandering them and between warning people about someone who is actually legitimately destructive.

I have been in a situation where I encountered someone who was in a spiritual role and was quite the ego maniac. After a 'healing' session with her (she also does readings - for some reason I had a few readings done last year and normally wouldn't. I think I'm over this reading phase and am focusing on developing my own intuition), I found out she must have dumped negative energy on me or something because I felt drowsy and then rage the next day. Now I have worked with mantra long enough to know that sometimes you do get angry when things come up and then things improve, but I had a bad feeling about this person in the first place but for some reason kept going to her group (I may have been drawn to the other positive people in the group). What happened was not her helping me, it was destructive and I later verified with another reader that she was a spiritual 'vampire'.  Now maybe she isn't conscious of what she is doing and maybe part of her really does want to lead a spiritual life. I am not sure, but we need to be aware of this danger.

Anyways, I blogged about her but did not mention her name, although I maybe should have. I talked to some people who used to go to her group and they shared the same sentiments as I did. There was something not right about this woman.

But what does one do? I don't want to spend energy warning people about her. They may have to found out on their own. But at the same time, she has a potential to cause someone great harm. Since I had a strong spiritual discipline to start with, I probably was able to shake off the destructive energy much quicker then someone who is a novice. Perhaps my karma with her is over. She ended up reading my blog and confronted me about what I wrote but she was insistent I was negative and had issues. I wrote my blog entry to help me make sense of this experience and did not mention her name and was not attacking her and sticking to the facts as I saw them. There was a complete denial on her end about what I experienced.  True I had issues like everyone else, but I was trying to work though it like most people on a spiritual ideally should. This woman was not who I hoped she was.

Let's get real here. On the spiritual path, there will be spiritual posers (as I described her in my blog). People who talk the talk but do not walk the walk. I think one needs to make the distinction between actually finding the truth of a situation versus gossiping. Sometimes fact finding appears as gossip but it's not and it's the intention behind it that determines whether it is gossip or fact finding.

Paula

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam

 

I have met Agia Akal and have had readings with him. He is very insightful and

intelligent. I will not attack his character. I will comment on his

businesses though. My wife paid $1500 for a numerology certifiication course.

The course had no focus. The course kept changing. My wife completed part of it

and by then it was changed so she had to do everything all over again. Then

instead of the mail correspondence course, everything had to be done all over

again on the internet. Then they said she had to do the course again. She

never progressed as far as any level of certification. We asked for all the

money back and received none. 108 calculations were promised and according to

another numerologist, YB only gave 54 calculations. My wife is not the only one

to whom this happened. We personally know of 3 others and those 3 others have

said they know of others to whom this happened. NO one got certified and no one

got their money back. " Caveat Emptor " if you want to deal with these

businesses. People need to be told the truth so the same thing does not happen

to them. Is business corruption different than government corruption?

 

GuruBandhu

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " sevaplace01 " <krishna wrote:

>

> Dear Sat Avatar, Sat Nam -

> What a wonderful moment for learning we're in right now. Thank you for

participating.

>

> Simply put, in the teaching of Kundalini Yoga as Yogi Bhajan taught, " Slander "

is a verbal attack, negative allegations, about anyone who is NOT present in

order to know what is being circulated about him (or her), and without

opportunity to offer correcting communication to these allegations. This is why

there is a constitutional guarantee to hear and rebut negative allegations by

facing witnesses who bring such allegations forward.

>

> In my previous email I confronted you for exactly doing this. I confronted

you on a point of communication that is CRUCIAL for having truth based dialogue

in any context. It had nothing to do with whether on not your allegations are

true or false. It has everything to do with the fairness and honesty of the

PROCESS by which any social system can maintain a pure and neutral medium for

mutual understanding.

>

> Confronting your statements is not a hostile act toward you. IT is also clear

that you are reacting at this time.

>

> " Gossip " (as Yogi Bhajan taught) is the sharing and circulation in social

circles (and oftentimes " enjoyment " ) of such un-processed, unproven allegations,

" as if they were true. " Gossip can easily become a feeding frenzy upon lies and

untruth, to the great harm for the social system in which gossip and slander

occurs. Since Sat Sangat (true and beloved community) is one of the most

primordial foundations of Dharma, anyone who is qualified to consider themselves

a lover of Dharma actually betrays the Guru and Dharma by tolerating and NOT

confronting slander and gossip. That is simply the rather unpleasant task I

assumed when I wrote my brief and succinct comments to you. I don't mind being

" the bad person " here. At least your reactions are being directed to someone

who is present and able to respond (as I am). Agia Akal Singh is not here. So

I'm happy to speak on his and everyone's behalf, that " even if " he has done a

wrong thing, your method of dealing with it was inappropriate. Neither am I

slandering you by lodging my objection directly to you, without secrecy, in the

very context in which you spoke of him. You made this public.

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Krishna Singh, for this wonder teaching post, reminding us all to

redouble our efforts to be neutral and conscious of all our communications. I

greatly appreciated this post - this type of thing is the meat of this group for

me. We are all striving to learn and grow and these posts help me to do that. I

might well have reacted as Sat Avtar did, and am happy to learn. And thank you

Sat Avtar, for all your posts and the work you do to provide such a wonderful

resource for us all on your site.

 

Jiwan Shakti Kaur

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " sevaplace01 " <krishna wrote:

>

> Dear Sat Avatar, Sat Nam -

> What a wonderful moment for learning we're in right now. Thank you for

participating.

>

> Simply put, in the teaching of Kundalini Yoga as Yogi Bhajan taught, " Slander "

is a verbal attack, negative allegations, about anyone who is NOT present in

order to know what is being circulated about him (or her), and without

opportunity to offer correcting communication to these allegations. This is why

there is a constitutional guarantee to hear and rebut negative allegations by

facing witnesses who bring such allegations forward.

>

> In my previous email I confronted you for exactly doing this. I confronted

you on a point of communication that is CRUCIAL for having truth based dialogue

in any context. It had nothing to do with whether on not your allegations are

true or false. It has everything to do with the fairness and honesty of the

PROCESS by which any social system can maintain a pure and neutral medium for

mutual understanding.

>

> Confronting your statements is not a hostile act toward you. IT is also clear

that you are reacting at this time.

>

> " Gossip " (as Yogi Bhajan taught) is the sharing and circulation in social

circles (and oftentimes " enjoyment " ) of such un-processed, unproven allegations,

" as if they were true. " Gossip can easily become a feeding frenzy upon lies and

untruth, to the great harm for the social system in which gossip and slander

occurs. Since Sat Sangat (true and beloved community) is one of the most

primordial foundations of Dharma, anyone who is qualified to consider themselves

a lover of Dharma actually betrays the Guru and Dharma by tolerating and NOT

confronting slander and gossip. That is simply the rather unpleasant task I

assumed when I wrote my brief and succinct comments to you. I don't mind being

" the bad person " here. At least your reactions are being directed to someone

who is present and able to respond (as I am). Agia Akal Singh is not here. So

I'm happy to speak on his and everyone's behalf, that " even if " he has done a

wrong thing, your method of dealing with it was inappropriate. Neither am I

slandering you by lodging my objection directly to you, without secrecy, in the

very context in which you spoke of him. You made this public.

>

> This would be a textbook opportunity for some other, non-interested, skilled,

neutral party to facilitate and mediate this engagement between dueling

allegations. I have no interest in pursuing this, one on one, without

facilitation. I am, at this moment, simply clarifying and reiterating my first

objection. There is no requirement to " blow kisses " before objecting in group

conversation. There is, however, a requirement " to be in and of a neutral

mind. " I have no interest in the outcome of this discussion, other than to

resolve and sustain a truthful, neutrally minded forum for our mutual

explorations and investigations of insights and values within an honest and fair

environment.

>

> There is a process model for allowing opposing viewpoints to be valued in

finding deeper, resolving insights. This is the essence of Quaker protocol and

meeting. It's a protocol that is deeply compatible with what you have said

about Non-Violent Communication as taught by Marshall Rosenberg. Unless someone

can assist by pointing the contrary, I believe that I am and have been well

within compliance with both systems of negotiation and facilitation in speaking

here as I have at this time. I am very open to qualified facilitation, as

neither party to a dispute of truth and value can neutrally sustain the middle

ground for having a balanced resolution.

>

> thank you for bringing such a rich situation to our shared reality. It's

quite wonderful to have such an opportunity for serious exploration of " how can

one go from here. "

>

> Love and Blessings,

> Krishna Singh

>

> Kundalini-Yoga , " sat_avtar_kaur " <myralorey@> wrote:

> >

> > Sat Nam,

> >

> > You are entitled to your perceptions, Krishna Singh, as I am to mine. It

you, who is using the words " tone and arrogance of a witch hunt'. These are

your perceptions, they have nothing to do with me.

> >

> > I have had nothing, but the greatest respect for you. Apparently, that is

mis-placed, on my part. What happened to your training in NVC?

> >

> > Would it not have been better, that you asked, for proof or where I came up

with the idea?

> >

> > Oh, by the way, I got a private email, from a Kundalini Yoga Teacher, who

warned me about this man. So not everyone, thinks the way you do.

> >

> > You talk about fairness, but I don't think you are being fair. I did not

'slander' anyone. I stated an opinion. You think that my little email is

slander?

> >

> > I know, what slander is, because, I have been slandered, by a Kundalini

Yoga Teacher. My Kundalini Yoga Teacher, the second and last one, I have ever

had. I loved her classes. I actually thought we were friends. My assumption.

That Kundalini Yoga Teacher sent an email, to a new student, who had only two

classes and was a friend of mine at that time.

> >

> > I have never been so deeply hurt, as I have been, and still am, with what

this teacher said about me, based on her assumptions.

> >

> > I have worked on releasing this, since May of 2007. And, I still can't

resolve it.

> >

> > This is what slander is:

> >

> > > ms lorey

> > > Thu, 31 May 2007 14:40:11 EDT

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > >

> > > I've been cruising the web, Google-ing. I'm not a professional

> > > psychologist but it appears to me that Myra is a Borderline Personality

Disorder

> > > person (BPD). There are many sites that define the 9 symptoms of BPD.

> > > Wikepedia is a good place to start if you're interested. If you continue

to associate with

> > > her I want you to be careful. Her reality is very distorted--not her

fault.

> >

> > (signature removed)

> >

> > Krishna Singh, you know all about this. Because you were involved. (and

another teacher as well)

> >

> > Now, if I leave this statement as it is, a lot people are going to wonder

about you, too. But, I am not going to do that. I am going to clarify. Krishna

Singh offered to meditate, but at that time, we could bring it off.

> >

> > And the situation lingers, she does not look me in the eye, or speak, if we

attend the same workshop. I considered at the time, taking her to court, and

suing but, I decided that since I knew so little about Kundalini Yoga, that I

would take that route in resolving this. I had an 8 month heavy chant practice.

I am still chanting. It is not with me every day, but it keeps coming up. Kirtan

Kriya is quite helpful.

> >

> > So, Krishna Singh, you are worried about " Who is this KY Teacher? " But you

did not counteract with positive, upbeat information on this person. Why not, if

you are so worried, on principle.

> >

> > Here are the urls that was sent to me and others I found, check it out for

yourself, make your own decisions.

> >

> > http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/4/2598.html?1180529399

> >

> > http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/339.html?1121347574

> >

> >

http://omgili.com/jmp/jHIAmI4hxg9d1iQWAe70cRWtshCsrVe5ARhKqCYXd4gVvcMel6P4duGOP9\

KDbrZr0CmVjiUEsYXHX46LeZ_CfdwLWeJQnfF0VAYl.2tdjITDcxYEjW825uIL24h5q8WnY7cJBSPU6R\

fJxZgSUZ2Q4Rbbf09.zZOZXSKuUMmE1u3NGgwxGBP4sF3spTSrtchktN6j_Cuoem8WACnwoNCkDHHC72\

UtK4UxwVvZ_W_UtKA-

> >

> >

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Seminar-Programs/Yogi-Akal-Internatio/yogi-akal-inte\

rnational-school-m2489.htm

> > Report: #280904

> >

> > Sat Avtar Kaur

> > Myra Lorey

> >

> > ps- long reflection on this 'stuff' and some other weird experiences, I had

with Kundalini Yoga Teachers, (the first 5 I ever met) has led me to feel that

there is a lack in the Teachers Training. None of the 5 teachers, were able to

use the word 'No' or take charge of the conversations and emails.

> >

> > One of them, sent an email, the night before, stating how much fun we were

going to have, the next day, I got an email from her, stating that I was not on

a high enough gracious level for her to deal with, and it would take me, 10

lifetimes to reach her level, and even then, she did not want to know me. I

have no idea, what she was talking about, why she sent it - No- would have

worked -- very childish. oops, is that slander, too?

> >

> > After class, one day this teacher said she could give me some kriyas that

would overcome the negativity in my life. It took me about 5 questions, to find

out what she was basing this remark on. It seems that in class, I said 'ouch'

and 'ouch', when I pushed myself too hard. I told her that pain is neither

positive nor negative. It just is.

> >

> > pps.

> > There is a Teacher in Seattle, that gives classes on Compassionate

Communication combined with NVC. According to Nonviolent Communication founder

Marshall Rosenberg, empathy is a respectful understanding of what others are

experiencing. NVC offers us concrete tools to increase our skills in empathic

listening which result in effective resolution of conflicts, bridging of

ideological divides, and wise use of our resources on personal, national and

global levels.

> >

> > " Rather than getting caught up in the story the speaker is telling, with

NVC-type empathic listening, we listen for two underlying, key components:

feelings and needs. Listening for feelings and needs will keep us focused,

centered and open, rather than being drawn into judgment of either the speaker

or the people the speaker may be judging. "

> >

> > I think all Kundalini Yoga Teachers should be required to take a class in

NVC. My perception.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam,

 

Quote: in the teaching of Kundalini Yoga as Yogi Bhajan taught, " Slander "

is a verbal attack,

 

Quote: In my previous email I confronted you for exactly doing this.

 

 

These 2 statements appear to be contradictory.

 

Verbal?

 

We post here by email, at least I do.

 

I have as much right, as you or anyone else, to to make a statement, to express

my opinion. I am not going to recant.

 

Blessings,

 

Sat Avtar Kaur

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam. I live in Toronto and am ordinarily very inviting and communicative.

Agia Akal Singh and I first came to know each other nearly 30 years ago when he

lived in Montreal. When he arrived in Toronto about 8 years ago, I encouraged

him several times to become involved in our Toronto 3HO community. Finally,

Agia Akal Singh told me that Yogiji had told him not to be involved with our

community (that's in the larger, not the local sense).

 

God knows what Yogiji had in mind exactly, but my suggestion is to send Agia

Akal Singh-ji lots of blessings and prayers, but leave him be.

 

Blessings abounding...

 

Guru Fatha Singh

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " greatyoga " <greatyoga wrote:

>

> Sat Nam

>

> I have met Agia Akal and have had readings with him. He is very insightful and

intelligent. I will not attack his character. I will comment on his

businesses though. My wife paid $1500 for a numerology certifiication course.

The course had no focus. The course kept changing. My wife completed part of it

and by then it was changed so she had to do everything all over again. Then

instead of the mail correspondence course, everything had to be done all over

again on the internet. Then they said she had to do the course again. She

never progressed as far as any level of certification. We asked for all the

money back and received none. 108 calculations were promised and according to

another numerologist, YB only gave 54 calculations. My wife is not the only one

to whom this happened. We personally know of 3 others and those 3 others have

said they know of others to whom this happened. NO one got certified and no one

got their money back. " Caveat Emptor " if you want to deal with these

businesses. People need to be told the truth so the same thing does not happen

to them. Is business corruption different than government corruption?

>

> GuruBandhu

>

> Kundalini-Yoga , " sevaplace01 " <krishna@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sat Avatar, Sat Nam -

> > What a wonderful moment for learning we're in right now. Thank you for

participating.

> >

> > Simply put, in the teaching of Kundalini Yoga as Yogi Bhajan taught,

" Slander " is a verbal attack, negative allegations, about anyone who is NOT

present in order to know what is being circulated about him (or her), and

without opportunity to offer correcting communication to these allegations.

This is why there is a constitutional guarantee to hear and rebut negative

allegations by facing witnesses who bring such allegations forward.

> >

> > In my previous email I confronted you for exactly doing this. I confronted

you on a point of communication that is CRUCIAL for having truth based dialogue

in any context. It had nothing to do with whether on not your allegations are

true or false. It has everything to do with the fairness and honesty of the

PROCESS by which any social system can maintain a pure and neutral medium for

mutual understanding.

> >

> > Confronting your statements is not a hostile act toward you. IT is also

clear that you are reacting at this time.

> >

> > " Gossip " (as Yogi Bhajan taught) is the sharing and circulation in social

circles (and oftentimes " enjoyment " ) of such un-processed, unproven allegations,

" as if they were true. " Gossip can easily become a feeding frenzy upon lies and

untruth, to the great harm for the social system in which gossip and slander

occurs. Since Sat Sangat (true and beloved community) is one of the most

primordial foundations of Dharma, anyone who is qualified to consider themselves

a lover of Dharma actually betrays the Guru and Dharma by tolerating and NOT

confronting slander and gossip. That is simply the rather unpleasant task I

assumed when I wrote my brief and succinct comments to you. I don't mind being

" the bad person " here. At least your reactions are being directed to someone

who is present and able to respond (as I am). Agia Akal Singh is not here. So

I'm happy to speak on his and everyone's behalf, that " even if " he has done a

wrong thing, your method of dealing with it was inappropriate. Neither am I

slandering you by lodging my objection directly to you, without secrecy, in the

very context in which you spoke of him. You made this public.

>

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam,

 

I feel...

What is right for one isn't necessarily right for another...my truth of a person

or situation is mine & unique to my particular make-up.. & what I need to

experience at that time ...however seemingly ugly..I tend to believe - it is

what ' I ' am meant to be experiencing /attracting.. we are exactly where we are

meant to be...experiencing exactly what we do experience..comfortably or

not...until we have received whatever needs to be received in order to release

our deepest authentic self..to discover a much deeper place of non-attachment to

external stimuli / triggers & equally our reactions to them....They are not the

objective ....How we are left after every encounter we have ...is admittedly

sometimes a pain in the butt...But for me...it is an opportunity to go deeper

....to deeply feel & drop more into that Sattvic state...I am learning that these

feelings are what needs to be acknowledged & felt & that takes us deeper into

our person / our sattvic state...The storylines, no matter how darn seductive or

comforting they appear to be,are absolutely irrelevent...all things are a means

to taking us within to silence / peace ...Our Authentic Self.

I know it seemingly makes us feel good to go in there warning & rescuing

others...but are we really that Big to think that is our role..possibly another

illusion...people don't need rescuing...

The only rescuing one needs is from their minds & running storylines..

We vibrate at a certain frequency...we have so many inner notes playing...maybe

one day we may be in the right place the right time to have the opprtuinty to

trigger one of those inner notes ...result being that we can become more aware

of our patterns /programming / wounds etc. in order to release & move past it to

hear the Ultimate Note...no storyline is ever going to take us there...

If we aren't meant to experience that vibration there & then ...then we won't..

For me...I have been rediculously open in past... & picked up stuff all the

time...emotionally being floored over & over again...

For whatever reason my pranamayakosha has been full to the brim with emotions &

jarring itself...

However...apart from all the wonderful vibrationally uplifting tools out

there...that have helped...ultimately its been the most seemingly basic of

practises that has helped...simple yet powerful.....placing own hands on body &

feeling & allowing the energy / prana its own expression ...and anything that is

not sattvic is recognised & released & moved into a sattvic state... no

storylines or controlling necessary!

A wonderful teacher has taught me these preliminary exercises... & we finish with

Yoni Mudra over the Lower chakras...

 

 

Om Shanti & Blessings

Bhadra kali

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , Paula Lucidi <plucidi wrote:

>

> Greetings all,

>

> I have to make some comment about this whole slander issue. I mean, the

> reality is, on a spiritual path, there are teachers out there who have not

> really healed themselves and so sometimes will project and be quite damaging

> to their students. There is a difference between slandering them and between

> warning people about someone who is actually legitimately destructive.

>

> I have been in a situation where I encountered someone who was in a

> spiritual role and was quite the ego maniac. After a 'healing' session with

> her (she also does readings - for some reason I had a few readings done last

> year and normally wouldn't. I think I'm over this reading phase and am

> focusing on developing my own intuition), I found out she must have dumped

> negative energy on me or something because I felt drowsy and then rage the

> next day. Now I have worked with mantra long enough to know that sometimes

> you do get angry when things come up and then things improve, but I had a

> bad feeling about this person in the first place but for some reason kept

> going to her group (I may have been drawn to the other positive people in

> the group). What happened was not her helping me, it was destructive and I

> later verified with another reader that she was a spiritual 'vampire'. Now

> maybe she isn't conscious of what she is doing and maybe part of her really

> does want to lead a spiritual life. I am not sure, but we need to be aware

> of this danger.

>

> Anyways, I blogged about her but did not mention her name, although I maybe

> should have. I talked to some people who used to go to her group and they

> shared the same sentiments as I did. There was something not right about

> this woman.

>

> But what does one do? I don't want to spend energy warning people about her.

> They may have to found out on their own. But at the same time, she has a

> potential to cause someone great harm. Since I had a strong spiritual

> discipline to start with, I probably was able to shake off the destructive

> energy much quicker then someone who is a novice. Perhaps my karma with her

> is over. She ended up reading my blog and confronted me about what I wrote

> but she was insistent I was negative and had issues. I wrote my blog entry

> to help me make sense of this experience and did not mention her name and

> was not attacking her and sticking to the facts as I saw them. There was a

> complete denial on her end about what I experienced. True I had issues like

> everyone else, but I was trying to work though it like most people on a

> spiritual ideally should. This woman was not who I hoped she was.

>

> Let's get real here. On the spiritual path, there will be spiritual posers

> (as I described her in my blog). People who talk the talk but do not walk

> the walk.

>

> I think one needs to make the distinction between actually finding the truth

> of a situation versus gossiping. Sometimes fact finding appears as gossip

> but it's not and it's the intention behind it that determines whether it is

> gossip or fact finding.

>

> Paula

>

[Guest guest]

<gurufathasingh wrote:

 

> Finally, Agia Akal Singh told me that Yogiji had told him not to be involved

with our community (that's in the larger, not the local sense).

The implication I take from this is that Yogi Bhajan felt this man was not fit

to be part of the 3HO community. What else is one to think if he only told you

'finally' and didnt give you

the reason?

 

> ....my suggestion is to send Agia Akal Singh-ji lots of blessings and prayers,

but leave him be.

If this man is 'corrupt' or even just incompetent it is not right to send him

prayers and leave him be. It is right to oppose him and try to stop him harming

others.

From reading the forum posts I have grave doubts about him.

 

I believe there are degress of sin

1 - doing bad

2 - helping someone do bad

3 - stopping people who try to stop someone from doing bad.

3 - not intereveneing to stop someone when you have the power to do so

4 - Not supporting soneone who has the power to intervene.

 

Prayer may not be enough in a harsh world - even though it may be the best thing

to try first.

People who do bad are usually convinced they are not - you may have to be cruel

to them to stop them hurting others.

 

Keith

[Guest guest]

Sat Avtar Kaur-

 

I have known Agia Akal to swindle people out of money through his programs. I

am not surprised to hear of other negative experiences with him.

 

Some people believe that because someone is " spiritual " , they deserve to be

evaluated differently than others. But a person who does sadhana every day and

is still a jerk, or a cheat, or a swindler, is the same kind of jerk, or cheat,

or swindler as someone who doesn't do sadhana.

 

There is no need to jump through psychological hoops, as many have suggested to

you, just to make the point, as you did, that someone's reputation precedes them

and to engage them with caution. It was a simple point you made, and people

could respond by providing evidence or personal perspective on an alternative

perspective of the man.

 

Instead, you received a lot of judgement and un-asked for " teaching " from

various members here. I applaud you for sticking to your belief and opinion and

know that you are not alone.

 

You are also not the first person to suffer slander specifically by Krishna

Singh. In my opinion, he is not to be taken seriously.

 

Sincerely,

 

Michael

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " sat_avtar_kaur " <myralorey wrote:

>

> Sat Nam,

>

> Quote: in the teaching of Kundalini Yoga as Yogi Bhajan taught, " Slander "

> is a verbal attack,

>

> Quote: In my previous email I confronted you for exactly doing this.

>

>

> These 2 statements appear to be contradictory.

>

> Verbal?

>

> We post here by email, at least I do.

>

> I have as much right, as you or anyone else, to to make a statement, to

express my opinion. I am not going to recant.

>

> Blessings,

>

> Sat Avtar Kaur

>

[Guest guest]

Sat nam all,

 

I just wanted to offer the following - in the time I have known him (several

years), Agia Akal has been nothing but an impeccable teacher with me.

 

Best,

Brian

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " dharam_khalsa " <dharam_khalsa

wrote:

>

> Sat Avtar Kaur-

>

> I have known Agia Akal to swindle people out of money through his programs. I

am not surprised to hear of other negative experiences with him.

>

> Some people believe that because someone is " spiritual " , they deserve to be

evaluated differently than others. But a person who does sadhana every day and

is still a jerk, or a cheat, or a swindler, is the same kind of jerk, or cheat,

or swindler as someone who doesn't do sadhana.

>

> There is no need to jump through psychological hoops, as many have suggested

to you, just to make the point, as you did, that someone's reputation precedes

them and to engage them with caution. It was a simple point you made, and

people could respond by providing evidence or personal perspective on an

alternative perspective of the man.

>

> Instead, you received a lot of judgement and un-asked for " teaching " from

various members here. I applaud you for sticking to your belief and opinion and

know that you are not alone.

>

> You are also not the first person to suffer slander specifically by Krishna

Singh. In my opinion, he is not to be taken seriously.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Michael

>

> Kundalini-Yoga , " sat_avtar_kaur " <myralorey@> wrote:

> >

> > Sat Nam,

> >

> > Quote: in the teaching of Kundalini Yoga as Yogi Bhajan taught, " Slander "

> > is a verbal attack,

> >

> > Quote: In my previous email I confronted you for exactly doing this.

> >

> >

> > These 2 statements appear to be contradictory.

> >

> > Verbal?

> >

> > We post here by email, at least I do.

> >

> > I have as much right, as you or anyone else, to to make a statement, to

express my opinion. I am not going to recant.

> >

> > Blessings,

> >

> > Sat Avtar Kaur

> >

>

[Guest guest]

After following your argument from over the pond for a while, a quote

popped up:

if you cant see god in all ...

Let my heart-light be a lighthouse

willem

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam

 

Sat Avatar Your response was well thought out,true and set great guidelines for

all facing simaliar situations.

 

You know someone by their presence and their actions. You will be known by who

you hang out with. Use your intuition, and yes track records do count.

 

Blessings

Gurutej

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " Brian " <nitawabrian wrote:

>

> Sat nam all,

>

> I just wanted to offer the following - in the time I have known him (several

years), Agia Akal has been nothing but an impeccable teacher with me.

>

> Best,

> Brian

>

> Kundalini-Yoga , " dharam_khalsa " <dharam_khalsa@> wrote:

> >

> > Sat Avtar Kaur-

> >

> > I have known Agia Akal to swindle people out of money through his programs.

I am not surprised to hear of other negative experiences with him.

> >

> > Some people believe that because someone is " spiritual " , they deserve to be

evaluated differently than others. But a person who does sadhana every day and

is still a jerk, or a cheat, or a swindler, is the same kind of jerk, or cheat,

or swindler as someone who doesn't do sadhana.

> >

> > There is no need to jump through psychological hoops, as many have suggested

to you, just to make the point, as you did, that someone's reputation precedes

them and to engage them with caution. It was a simple point you made, and

people could respond by providing evidence or personal perspective on an

alternative perspective of the man.

> >

> > Instead, you received a lot of judgement and un-asked for " teaching " from

various members here. I applaud you for sticking to your belief and opinion and

know that you are not alone.

> >

> > You are also not the first person to suffer slander specifically by Krishna

Singh. In my opinion, he is not to be taken seriously.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > Michael

> >

> > Kundalini-Yoga , " sat_avtar_kaur " <myralorey@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Sat Nam,

> > >

> > > Quote: in the teaching of Kundalini Yoga as Yogi Bhajan taught, " Slander "

> > > is a verbal attack,

> > >

> > > Quote: In my previous email I confronted you for exactly doing this.

> > >

> > >

> > > These 2 statements appear to be contradictory.

> > >

> > > Verbal?

> > >

> > > We post here by email, at least I do.

> > >

> > > I have as much right, as you or anyone else, to to make a statement, to

express my opinion. I am not going to recant.

> > >

> > > Blessings,

> > >

> > > Sat Avtar Kaur

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Keith -

 

Sat Nam. Yogiji knew lots of yogis with questionable, even destructive

practices. While he would often describe these scenarios for our edification,

he never mentioned the teachers by name. And he never to my knowledge tried to

stop any of them from doing just exactly what they were doing in any way other

than offering counsel, which was usually private and confidential.

 

Yogiji would say there is no need to kill a bad man. Their bad habits will

destroy them soon enough.

 

It seems you are suggesting some kind of vigilante action or a public relations

campaign. Yogiji never went there. He maintained his grace and neutrality. In

one case I am aware of, the teacher, Yogi Amrit Desai finally sought out Yogiji

for counsel.

 

From what I have seen, Yogi Bhajan's policy has been to cultivate strength,

understanding and inspiration everywhere - and to oppose none. We should be so

strong, wise and inspiring that we are widely known as a good choice, or at

least a good second choice for anyone looking for a bona fide yoga teacher.

 

I myself find that I am now a second choice for one of Agia Akal Singh's

students. She is in her 3rd or 4th year of a seemingly interminable teachers

training course. This student is frustrated by that, but is also coming to my

classes (sometimes with her husband) and seems to be deriving some inspiration

from them.

 

It is very easy to focus on another teacher's failings. That is what Yogiji

never did. I would encourage you instead to focus on developing your strengths

through sadhana and yourself becoming a great teacher for those who would study

Kundalini Yoga.

 

Blessings abounding...

 

Guru Fatha Singh

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " biftonb " <biftonb wrote:

>

>

>

> <gurufathasingh@> wrote:

>

> > Finally, Agia Akal Singh told me that Yogiji had told him not to be involved

with our community (that's in the larger, not the local sense).

> The implication I take from this is that Yogi Bhajan felt this man was not fit

to be part of the 3HO community. What else is one to think if he only told you

'finally' and didnt give you

> the reason?

>

> > ....my suggestion is to send Agia Akal Singh-ji lots of blessings and

prayers, but leave him be.

> If this man is 'corrupt' or even just incompetent it is not right to send him

prayers and leave him be. It is right to oppose him and try to stop him harming

others.

> From reading the forum posts I have grave doubts about him.

>

> I believe there are degress of sin

> 1 - doing bad

> 2 - helping someone do bad

> 3 - stopping people who try to stop someone from doing bad.

> 3 - not intereveneing to stop someone when you have the power to do so

> 4 - Not supporting soneone who has the power to intervene.

>

> Prayer may not be enough in a harsh world - even though it may be the best

thing to try first.

> People who do bad are usually convinced they are not - you may have to be

cruel to them to stop them hurting others.

>

> Keith

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Guru Fatha,

Kundalini-Yoga , " guru fatha singh " <gurufathasingh

wrote:

> Yogiji would say there is no need to kill a bad man. Their

> bad habits will destroy them soon enough.

Sounds like pretty good advice except I am sure there are some cases where it is

right to use coercion to stop the bad man.

 

> It seems you are suggesting some kind of vigilante action or

> a public relations campaign.

Vigilante action? certainly not. I don't know what action if any should be taken

in this odd case. The teacher seems to please some people with his teaching and

annoy others with his financial dealings.

It sounds like the traces of people complaining about him on the internet may be

enough publicity to warn people off. In a law suit ridden country like the USA

people must be pretty sure of their facts to say what they have in public. Bless

the internet in this case.

 

> Yogiji never went there. He maintained his grace and neutrality.

I am not Yogiji or an enlightened being or saint. I am not going to act a part

of 'grace and neutrality' in a situation like this when that is not how I feel.

I will learn from it. This case makes me angry as it brings up memories of a

corrupt head at my daughters school and the way hardly anybody opposed him

allowing him to get away with all sorts of things. This old anger is still there

inside me...

I am still proud I joined the few that fought him, sad I lost and pleased I

transferred my daughter to a more ethically run school.

 

> From what I have seen, Yogi Bhajan's policy has been to

> cultivate strength, understanding and inspiration everywhere -

> and to oppose none.

He was a yoga & spiritual teacher not a policeman! We need policemen too.

 

> It is very easy to focus on another teacher's failings.

> That is what Yogiji never did.

If this persons failing is to dishonestly take money off people then if someone

is a position to stop him I wish they would focus on it!

I however am not in such a position so there is nothing I can do about it.

 

> I would encourage you instead to focus on developing your

> strengths through sadhana and yourself becoming a great

> teacher for those who would study Kundalini Yoga.

That's always good advice. I have spent enough time on this business which is no

business of mine!

 

I still believe it is a 'spiritual trap' not take action when it is in your

power to stop bad because it may interfere with your grace.

I identify with the people who moan angrily about him in public - they

are doing a service to others - maybe their anger is righteous!

 

> Blessings abounding...

And best wishes to all from me.

 

Keith.

[Guest guest]

This talk about Yogi-ji never taking action against people and always acting

with grace and kindness is absolutely ridiculous. He was as Saturn as it gets

and routinely ripped people apart to their face and not to their face.

 

He was also famous for his ornate and elaborate cursing in Punjabi, from telling

someone about to get married " You got her my boy. Now she is going to take that

kirpan and shove it up your a** " to telling someone else that he was birthed by

his mom copulating with a goat.

 

I also heard him tear people and teachers to shreds in English, and in classes.

 

But most importantly, no one can accurately speak for Yogi ji, or claim to hold

the mantle of knowledge on what he would or wouldn't do, or say or not say, in

any situation. It's ridiculous to claim to hold that knowledge.

 

What Yogi-ji left behind is not his psyche or personality but his teachings.

And his teachings are not a dogma, but a set of practices intended to help a

person achieve an honest view of reality and internal peace. Therefore, any

opinions stated, to be valid, must come from an internal truth and experience,

not just a recitation of what he said or did in a specific instance, and

certainly not with a wild claim of knowing exactly what he would say or think in

a particular situation.

 

I am with Keith on this one. At least he is using his own experience and

knowledge, as informed by his connection to the teachings, rather than claiming

the mantle of Yogi-ji personality and psyche.

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " biftonb " <biftonb wrote:

>

> Hello Guru Fatha,

> Kundalini-Yoga , " guru fatha singh " <gurufathasingh@>

wrote:

> > Yogiji would say there is no need to kill a bad man. Their

> > bad habits will destroy them soon enough.

> Sounds like pretty good advice except I am sure there are some cases where it

is right to use coercion to stop the bad man.

>

> > It seems you are suggesting some kind of vigilante action or

> > a public relations campaign.

> Vigilante action? certainly not. I don't know what action if any should be

taken in this odd case. The teacher seems to please some people with his

teaching and annoy others with his financial dealings.

> It sounds like the traces of people complaining about him on the internet may

be enough publicity to warn people off. In a law suit ridden country like the

USA people must be pretty sure of their facts to say what they have in public.

Bless the internet in this case.

>

> > Yogiji never went there. He maintained his grace and neutrality.

> I am not Yogiji or an enlightened being or saint. I am not going to act a part

of 'grace and neutrality' in a situation like this when that is not how I feel.

I will learn from it. This case makes me angry as it brings up memories of a

corrupt head at my daughters school and the way hardly anybody opposed him

allowing him to get away with all sorts of things. This old anger is still there

inside me...

> I am still proud I joined the few that fought him, sad I lost and pleased I

transferred my daughter to a more ethically run school.

>

> > From what I have seen, Yogi Bhajan's policy has been to

> > cultivate strength, understanding and inspiration everywhere -

> > and to oppose none.

> He was a yoga & spiritual teacher not a policeman! We need policemen too.

>

> > It is very easy to focus on another teacher's failings.

> > That is what Yogiji never did.

> If this persons failing is to dishonestly take money off people then if

someone is a position to stop him I wish they would focus on it!

> I however am not in such a position so there is nothing I can do about it.

>

> > I would encourage you instead to focus on developing your

> > strengths through sadhana and yourself becoming a great

> > teacher for those who would study Kundalini Yoga.

> That's always good advice. I have spent enough time on this business which is

no business of mine!

>

> I still believe it is a 'spiritual trap' not take action when it is in your

power to stop bad because it may interfere with your grace.

> I identify with the people who moan angrily about him in public - they

> are doing a service to others - maybe their anger is righteous!

>

> > Blessings abounding...

> And best wishes to all from me.

>

> Keith.

>

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam, anyone who is still following this thread -

 

I am not claiming any special expertise other than that I have arrived at from

spending some time with Yogiji and reading and hearing a few hundred lectures.

In writing his bio using extant materials with lots of gaps and missing details,

I often have to ask myself, " What would Yogiji have done? " or " How would he have

said that? " or " Why would he have done that? " Much of this is guesswork, of

course. Some of it is informed opinion. And some of it could be plain wrong.

It is a burden I carry.

 

Granted, Yogiji could use colourful language and be abusive when that was what

the situation required.

 

What I think I am addressing - although I don't know Keith and whether he is a

teacher of a student of Kundalini Yoga - is the best way (yes, " how Yogiji would

have done it " ) of dealing with an errant teacher.

 

In my experience, Yogiji peppered his teachings with stories of failed, bogus

teachers and their practices - much as Guru Nanak's Bani contains a lot of

verses about lost yogis. But he did not attack them by name or in their

absence. And he never launched any campaign against any teacher he disagreed

with - except a minor one in Canada where he had someone legally challenge

Mahesh Yogi's claim to proprietary use of the term " transcendental meditation " .

 

Rather, Yogiji sought out other teachers wherever he went. He tried to form an

association with Swami Rama, Yogi Amrit Desai, Dr. Mishra, and Swami

Satchidananda back in 1971. Wherever he went, we would publicly seek out common

ground and unity. Then, of course, being Yogi Bhajan he would not be averse to

poking, provoking and confronting his colleagues in private.

 

Yogi vs. yogi politics are nasty. I have seen them. You probably have as well.

They discredit those engaged in it. And they tarnish the good name of yoga in

others' eyes. I have never seen Yogiji indulge in it.

 

By expelling Agia Akal Singh from our organization, Yogiji delivered the

toughest critique and harshest punishment he could devise. It is no small

thing. For us to take this a step further - and I don't think anyone in this

forum, even Keith, has any idea how they might want to escalate this situation -

would in my estimation be a mistake.

 

Agia Akal Singh has his lawsuits, his isolation, and his tarnished reputation.

What more do you want to give him?

 

When Yogiji told us: " You don't have to kill a bad man. Their bad actions will

kill them soon enough. " he gave us an enlightened and very oriental teaching.

This is certainly not an Americanism. Yogiji was bound by the credo of Nirbhao

Nirvair - neither fear, nor exact vengeance. Trust in God.

 

Be an activist. Be angry sometime, yes. But don't engage in foolish actions.

 

In summation, I would admit I carry no designated mantle, but unless anyone

wants to propose something new they they or we ought to be doing about or to

Agia Akal Singh, I suggest we give this subject a rest.

 

Blessings abounding...

 

Guru Fatha Singh

[Guest guest]

Kundalini-Yoga , " dharam_khalsa " <dharam_khalsa

wrote:

> This talk about Yogi-ji never taking action against people... is

> absolutely ridiculous....

> He was also famous for his ornate and elaborate cursing in Punjabi,

> I also heard him tear people and teachers to shreds in English,

> and in classes.

 

You make Yogi Bhajan seem human after all!

 

> What Yogi-ji left behind is not his psyche or personality

> but his teachings.

 

Thanks for your refreshing post. His psyche still has powerful influence, his

teachings will live on well after that fades.

 

Keith.