Kundalini Yoga's Representation Online

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam,

 

Recently when starting up a new class in my hometown the director of the studio

was researching our style and was distressed by the second link availible on a

Google search for Kundalini Yoga @ Wikipedia the following passages in

particular i feel are biased in a negative light...

 

" ...made public in the west by rogue disciples. Inability to follow strict

instructions of the Master, or practicing of methods without a living and

self-realized master, can lead to a series of psychic disturbances and sometimes

even mental damage [2]. The conditions are known in psychiatric circles as

Kundalini Syndrome.

 

The psychiatrist Carl Jung warned that Kundalini Yoga could lead to dissociation

in which the mind purposely attempts to separate from its bodily restrictions.

He stated, " One often hears and reads about the dangers of yoga, particularly of

the ill-reputed Kundalini yoga. The deliberately induced psychotic state, which

in certain unstable individuals might easily lead to a real psychosis, is a

danger that needs to be taken very seriously indeed. These things are really

dangerous and ought not to be meddled with in our typically western way. "

 

So my question is rather than paying Google to place 3HO and IKTA higher on the

search engines queue...would anyone care to submit an article to Wikipedia that

could correct or offer another less inflammatory view to prospective students?

 

Sat Tapa

Warrenton, VA

[Guest guest]

sat nam-

 

Someone should probably create a whole new entry " Kundalini yoga as taught by

Yogi Bhajan " .

 

There are also a lot of seemingly biased tags in the Yogi Bhajan entry

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogi_Bhajan) Lots of " says who? " remarks.

Wikipedia is great, but its still a wiki, and people are going to put up there

what there gonna put up. All we can do is keep putting out more positive

representations of KY/YB, and pray that people who are meant to do Kundalini

yoga will do it, regardless of the any weird PR out there.

 

in peace,

Kehar Kaur

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " sat.tapa " <kundaliniyogini wrote:

>

> Sat Nam,

>

> Recently when starting up a new class in my hometown the director of the

studio was researching our style and was distressed by the second link availible

on a Google search for Kundalini Yoga @ Wikipedia the following passages in

particular i feel are biased in a negative light...

>

> " ...made public in the west by rogue disciples. Inability to follow strict

instructions of the Master, or practicing of methods without a living and

self-realized master, can lead to a series of psychic disturbances and sometimes

even mental damage [2]. The conditions are known in psychiatric circles as

Kundalini Syndrome.

>

> The psychiatrist Carl Jung warned that Kundalini Yoga could lead to

dissociation in which the mind purposely attempts to separate from its bodily

restrictions. He stated, " One often hears and reads about the dangers of yoga,

particularly of the ill-reputed Kundalini yoga. The deliberately induced

psychotic state, which in certain unstable individuals might easily lead to a

real psychosis, is a danger that needs to be taken very seriously indeed. These

things are really dangerous and ought not to be meddled with in our typically

western way. "

>

> So my question is rather than paying Google to place 3HO and IKTA higher on

the search engines queue...would anyone care to submit an article to Wikipedia

that could correct or offer another less inflammatory view to prospective

students?

>

> Sat Tapa

> Warrenton, VA

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sat Tapa -

 

Sat Nam. Wikipedia is an open forum. It means anybody can contribute anything

to any article. By and large, the material has to be validated by

" authoritative sources " and generally consensus rules.

 

Since Kundalini Yoga is not so widely practised - and good for you in working to

correct that! - there is as yet no pro-Kundalini Yoga consensus in the general

population. What you see on wikipedia is a reflection of that.

 

There is another article also - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini. This

one is friendlier - or at least it was a minute ago when I last checked. But

these articles change all the time with new contributions and constructive edits

and not so constructive edits.

 

Feel free to join wikipedia and make your own contributions. There is nobody

" in charge " out here going to do it for you. You know, be the change you want

to see in the world. With the help of Guru Ram Das, I am trying to keep the

wiki Yogi Bhajan site reasonable and nice. It can be a challenge.

 

Blessings abounding...

 

Guru Fatha Singh

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " sat.tapa " <kundaliniyogini wrote:

>

> Sat Nam,

>

> Recently when starting up a new class in my hometown the director of the

studio was researching our style and was distressed by the second link availible

on a Google search for Kundalini Yoga @ Wikipedia the following passages in

particular i feel are biased in a negative light...

>

> " ...made public in the west by rogue disciples. Inability to follow strict

instructions of the Master, or practicing of methods without a living and

self-realized master, can lead to a series of psychic disturbances and sometimes

even mental damage [2]. The conditions are known in psychiatric circles as

Kundalini Syndrome.

>

> The psychiatrist Carl Jung warned that Kundalini Yoga could lead to

dissociation in which the mind purposely attempts to separate from its bodily

restrictions. He stated, " One often hears and reads about the dangers of yoga,

particularly of the ill-reputed Kundalini yoga. The deliberately induced

psychotic state, which in certain unstable individuals might easily lead to a

real psychosis, is a danger that needs to be taken very seriously indeed. These

things are really dangerous and ought not to be meddled with in our typically

western way. "

>

> So my question is rather than paying Google to place 3HO and IKTA higher on

the search engines queue...would anyone care to submit an article to Wikipedia

that could correct or offer another less inflammatory view to prospective

students?

>

> Sat Tapa

> Warrenton, VA

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your thoughtful replies,

 

Guru Fatha Singh- I appreciate your efforts on Yogi Bhajan's wiki and only hope

I am able to pen " authoritatively " . Perhaps a section entitled " Kundalini Yoga

as taught by Yogi Bhajan " with a hyperlink would offer a note of distinction.

I'll give it a shot, why not?

 

Smiles,

Sat Tapa

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " gurufathasingh " <gurufathasingh

wrote:

>

> Dear Sat Tapa -

>

> Sat Nam. Wikipedia is an open forum. It means anybody can contribute

anything to any article. By and large, the material has to be validated by

" authoritative sources " and generally consensus rules.

>

> Since Kundalini Yoga is not so widely practised - and good for you in working

to correct that! - there is as yet no pro-Kundalini Yoga consensus in the

general population. What you see on wikipedia is a reflection of that.

>

> There is another article also - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini. This

one is friendlier - or at least it was a minute ago when I last checked. But

these articles change all the time with new contributions and constructive edits

and not so constructive edits.

>

> Feel free to join wikipedia and make your own contributions. There is nobody

" in charge " out here going to do it for you. You know, be the change you want

to see in the world. With the help of Guru Ram Das, I am trying to keep the

wiki Yogi Bhajan site reasonable and nice. It can be a challenge.

>

> Blessings abounding...

>

> Guru Fatha Singh

>

Kundalini-Yoga , " sat.tapa " <kundaliniyogini@> wrote:

> >

> > Sat Nam,

> >

> > Recently when starting up a new class in my hometown the director of the

studio was researching our style and was distressed by the second link availible

on a Google search for Kundalini Yoga @ Wikipedia the following passages in

particular i feel are biased in a negative light...

> >

> > " ...made public in the west by rogue disciples. Inability to follow strict

instructions of the Master, or practicing of methods without a living and

self-realized master, can lead to a series of psychic disturbances and sometimes

even mental damage [2]. The conditions are known in psychiatric circles as

Kundalini Syndrome.

> >

> > The psychiatrist Carl Jung warned that Kundalini Yoga could lead to

dissociation in which the mind purposely attempts to separate from its bodily

restrictions. He stated, " One often hears and reads about the dangers of yoga,

particularly of the ill-reputed Kundalini yoga. The deliberately induced

psychotic state, which in certain unstable individuals might easily lead to a

real psychosis, is a danger that needs to be taken very seriously indeed. These

things are really dangerous and ought not to be meddled with in our typically

western way. "

> >

> > So my question is rather than paying Google to place 3HO and IKTA higher on

the search engines queue...would anyone care to submit an article to Wikipedia

that could correct or offer another less inflammatory view to prospective

students?

> >

> > Sat Tapa

> > Warrenton, VA

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam Sat Tapa,

 

I would agree with the others - it's been on my minds-to-do-list for quite a

while actually - that a whole new section devoted to the topic of " Kundalini

Yoga as Taught by Yogi Bhajan® " needs to be created.

 

It should obviously distinctly describe the differences and uniqueness of the

style as separate from -- but connected and built upon -- the typical Eastern

Kundalini style that has often gotten a poor representation online.

 

In my mind's eye, I see importance given to the uniqueness of the style. Yogi

Bhajans teacher and lineage should be mentioned, but - And I can't say for sure

for everyone, but to me, KYTYB (Kundalini Yoga as Taught by Yogi Bhajan) is it's

own unique formulation based on the root yoga of Kundalini (Root out of the 22

classical styles). But it also includes, merges, combines and borrows from Raja

Yoga, Kriya Yoga, Astanga Yoga, Naam Yoga, Laya Yoga, Bhakti and Shakti Yoga,

(and others I'm sure) not to mention some other Eastern practices tied to

Buddism. It also very much like Qi Gong. And of course, there's the entirely

unique aspect that it is crossed over and birthed through Sikhism and Sikh

Dharma (most every other yoga you see on Wiki will be linked with Hinduism).

Let's not forget also the Ten Bodies!, the Music!, the Pranayams! the Shabds!,

the Mantras!, the Tantric!, the 1,000's of Meditations!, the Lectures!, and

well, so much, much more that needs inclusion.

 

This, in my opinion, is the starting point. The fact that it was his unique gift

to the West that he melded all of this into a systematized style that is

approved and regulated through KRI is the next salient point... That it is a

system unto itself with its own approval process and does not break from that

when being taught is unique as well (along the lines of Bikram, but without the

licensing as I understand).

 

Next, you'd have to discuss some basic " characteristics " - namely 2 that I would

consider the most integral: " Sat Naam " and Guru Ram Das, as a way to describe

like the very basic basis of the style. The soul of KYTYB, if you would.

 

The effects and processes (speed) of change compared to other yogas is the next

part.

 

Glands, nervous system, subconscious, chakras, 10 bodies, etc, etc, etc, etc,

etc, etc, can go on forever.

 

The history of the style is also another section. Beginning with his arrival in

1969, his mission, and the progress of the style through the Woodstock era into

today's climate.

 

Info on centers currently around, international reach, organizations, 3HO, KRI,

and IKYTA, and teachers of teachers needs to be covered after this.

 

Obviously, another whole part would have to be about Yogi Bhajan himself. The

Siri Singh Sahib Yogi Bhajan, and his many roles, entrepreneur, teacher,

spiritual leader, accomplishments, trainings, Peace Prayer Day, healer, etc,

etc, etc, etc, goes on forever.

 

Sikh Dharma is a whole other aspect that needs to be covered. Lifestyle and

integration with the Path.

 

I think that's all I have at the moment... Off the top of my head. I've been

thinking about it for a while, actually...

 

Obviously this is not a job for one person... It could easily take a team of us

writing for months, or years. Probably one of the reasons it hasn't started. But

then again, like YB said... Start and the pressure will be off.

 

Which reminds me, oh yea, we'll have to include a whole section on his

philosophy on the Aquarian Age and the 5 Sutras too.

 

Yea... no small task.

 

So, I have ideas... maybe we can talk via email. The wonderful thing about Wiki

as I understand, is anyone can add to it, so it can constantly evolve... But it

does need to be #1) started, and it does need a #2) structure and framework and

some planning.

 

I'm good with ideas and at starting things.. not the best at finishing them...

working on that aspect of 'Fateh'... But call upon me as much as you like. I

will rally the troops needed to make a victorious breakthrough if needed.

 

Yours in Infinity,

Fateh Singh

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam, Sat Tapa Kaur -

There is a simple explanation for the negativity about Kundalini Yoga on the

Wikipedia site you mentioned: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_yoga.

 

The article makes itself very clear that it is all written entirely " ACCORDING

TO HINDU TRADITION. " If you understand what that means, and its implications to

Kundalini Yoga as taught by Yogi Bhajan - you have to understand and conclude

that these two points of view will NEVER be reconciled because they are

irreconcilable. Just as the Ptolemaic and Copernican views of the universe are

not reconcilable. Just as the Flat Earth and the Round Earth theories are not

reconcilable. Just as your mother was not your father, and your father was not

your mother. Yogi Bhajan found it necessary (at great risk to his life) to

overturn the Hindu cultural/philosophical dominance of Kundalini knowledge and

practice because the Hindu cultural model (ie., " BRAHMINISM " ) is an elitist

monopoly of what is rightfully a humanistic COMMONWEALTH of cultural treasure.

This is not a new insight - the Buddha himself was born into a brahmin family in

line to become a brahmin king - AND THE BUDDHA " WALKED. " He " split. " He

" turned on, tuned in and dropped out. "

 

So also did Guru Nanak, who was born into the Bedi clan of a brahmin family. At

the age of seven, Guru Nanak refused to accept the " sacred cord " of brahmin

initiation. Everything about the practices he established - the Langar,

honoring the feminine, the Mother, visiting places of brahmin pilgrimage and

exposing the ridiculousness of offering water to the sun (by throwing water in

the direction of his distant farmlands as if to " irrigate " them from hundreds of

miles away) - all this was to dismantle the " Spell " and bewitchment of the human

mind from a mind controlling system of human DIS-empowerment and dominance.

 

Guru Gobind Singh founded the Nirmala Order within the Khalsa Dharma (see

http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/sikh_nirmala.html) when a sikh who came from a

brahmin background (with all the sacred, secret Vedic knowledge attendant

thereto) whom Guru Gobind Singh request that he teach Sanskrit the others of the

Khalsa, so they could read and understand Vedic texts and teachings. The

" brahmin " Sikh said he could not comply, because it was forbidden to share these

this knowledge with " unqualified " (ie., " lower caste " ) people. For this reason

Five Khalsa who also came from brahmin backgrounds accepted Guru Gobind Singh's

request to go to Benares, learn the Sanskrit thoroughly, and to come back and

teach it freely to the Khalsa. In other words, the Sikh Guru's were opposed to

the brahmin cultural hegemony and worked assiduously to overthrow it, in the

same they worked and fought assiduously to overthrow the Mughal empire. In

short, they were ENEMIES of the brahmin cultural hegemony in India. There are

more Hindus that Khalsas, we're highly outnumbered, but thoroughly unfazed by

issue of numbers. There are some people you can fool all of the time, there are

many people you can fool most of the time, and there are some people who cannot

be fooled. This includes the Buddha, Guru Nanak, and Guru Gobind Singh. AND

Siri Singh Sahib Yogi Bhajan ji was not fooled either. He came to North America

NOT to praise or perpetuate brahmin dominance of Kundalini Yoga, BUT TO BURY IT.

And for this release of heretofore tightly cultural secrets into the main

bloodstream of human availability, the Cat was Out of the Bag. As long as we

continue to teach in the manner by which he taught, THAT genii is not going to

go back into the bottle, either. It is an ongoing battle to eliminate us, or

for the brahmins to be eliminated as the sole, monopolistic gatekeepers of this

sacred, universal, cosmic knowledge of HOW to become joined with Wahe Guru,

without the ridiculous spectacle of a human being mimicking " guruship as your

lord and human master " (ie., social cultural slavery and bondage to an elite).

 

Think of a police line up - in it are standing George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl

Rove and Grover Norquist - all self-avowed enemies of populist human

self-determination. Isn't it obvious from the history of the past decade that

many people, even many so-called cultural " leaders " are actually practiced,

professional LIARS? Figuring out who they are, wherever they may be, even

perhaps arising from within our own midst as purported corporate leaders - who

are you willing to be fooled by? The only right answer is " No One. " The only

recourse is to rely solely and completely on the Infinite. Which is why Yogi

Bhajan repeatedly said, and repeatedly repeated, over, and over, and over again

- " DON'T CALL ON PEOPLE, CALL ON GOD. " Period. Deal with reality on your own,

in relation to the Infinite, or join the herd. The Khalsa did not become strong

by political power, we became strong by merging completely with the sole

spiritual power of Wahe Guru, with no imitations or surrogates, or human

gatekeepers, in between. That is why the first five Khalsa (Panj Piaras) were

required to accept Death as the gateway to Liberation, on the spot. Even more

than Patrick Henry, the first Khalsa said (in effect) " Please give my my Death

right now, so I can digest it and get on with a truly worthy Life. "

 

Don't be surprised when you hear such slander. Just turn away. It smells like

a monster industrial lagoon of fecal matter next to a pig farm. It's not hard

to identify if your nostrils and your mind is clear. And it will happen. It's

not a Disney sanitized world, it's Wahe Guru's world, and only our karma and

grace determine where we'll land or who will confront us. If you read Rick Ross

speaking as if he's an authority on 3HO, It's Garbage. If a restaurant serves

you garbage on a salad plate, can you recognize it? Will you eat it? If it

confronts you, just remember to Keep Up and maintain your grace, you will be

kept up and guided back into the nectar of Sat Nam - Wahe Guru. Where else

would anyone in the clarity of " truth and mind " ever choose or want to be?

 

for Love and many Blessings,

Krishna Singh

 

 

>

> Kundalini-Yoga , " sat.tapa " <kundaliniyogini@> wrote:

> >

> > Sat Nam,

> >

> > Recently when starting up a new class in my hometown the director of the

studio was researching our style and was distressed by the second link availible

on a Google search for Kundalini Yoga @ Wikipedia the following passages in

particular i feel are biased in a negative light...

> >

> > " ...made public in the west by rogue disciples. Inability to follow strict

instructions of the Master, or practicing of methods without a living and

self-realized master, can lead to a series of psychic disturbances and sometimes

even mental damage [2]. The conditions are known in psychiatric circles as

Kundalini Syndrome.

> >

> > The psychiatrist Carl Jung warned that Kundalini Yoga could lead to

dissociation in which the mind purposely attempts to separate from its bodily

restrictions. He stated, " One often hears and reads about the dangers of yoga,

particularly of the ill-reputed Kundalini yoga. The deliberately induced

psychotic state, which in certain unstable individuals might easily lead to a

real psychosis, is a danger that needs to be taken very seriously indeed. These

things are really dangerous and ought not to be meddled with in our typically

western way. "

> >

> > So my question is rather than paying Google to place 3HO and IKTA higher on

the search engines queue...would anyone care to submit an article to Wikipedia

that could correct or offer another less inflammatory view to prospective

students?

> >

> > Sat Tapa

> > Warrenton, VA

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hear Hear!

And that is why I gave up Jyotish after over 12years of devoted study. I got fed

up with 'politics for knowledge' and the money and power games. Same old thing,

people supposed to be serving, end up serving themselves handsomely. I couldn't

agree more with your statements Krishna Singh, and Wahe Guru for having the nuts

to say so!

Blessings and Sat Nam!

Sukhnivas

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " sevaplace01 " <krishna wrote:

>

> Sat Nam, Sat Tapa Kaur -

> There is a simple explanation for the negativity about Kundalini Yoga on the

Wikipedia site you mentioned: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_yoga.

>

> The article makes itself very clear that it is all written entirely " ACCORDING

TO HINDU TRADITION. " If you understand what that means, and its implications to

Kundalini Yoga as taught by Yogi Bhajan - you have to understand and conclude

that these two points of view will NEVER be reconciled because they are

irreconcilable. Just as the Ptolemaic and Copernican views of the universe are

not reconcilable. Just as the Flat Earth and the Round Earth theories are not

reconcilable. Just as your mother was not your father, and your father was not

your mother. Yogi Bhajan found it necessary (at great risk to his life) to

overturn the Hindu cultural/philosophical dominance of Kundalini knowledge and

practice because the Hindu cultural model (ie., " BRAHMINISM " ) is an elitist

monopoly of what is rightfully a humanistic COMMONWEALTH of cultural treasure.

This is not a new insight - the Buddha himself was born into a brahmin family in

line to become a brahmin king - AND THE BUDDHA " WALKED. " He " split. " He

" turned on, tuned in and dropped out. "

>

> So also did Guru Nanak, who was born into the Bedi clan of a brahmin family.

At the age of seven, Guru Nanak refused to accept the " sacred cord " of brahmin

initiation. Everything about the practices he established - the Langar,

honoring the feminine, the Mother, visiting places of brahmin pilgrimage and

exposing the ridiculousness of offering water to the sun (by throwing water in

the direction of his distant farmlands as if to " irrigate " them from hundreds of

miles away) - all this was to dismantle the " Spell " and bewitchment of the human

mind from a mind controlling system of human DIS-empowerment and dominance.

>

> Guru Gobind Singh founded the Nirmala Order within the Khalsa Dharma (see

http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/sikh_nirmala.html) when a sikh who came from a

brahmin background (with all the sacred, secret Vedic knowledge attendant

thereto) whom Guru Gobind Singh request that he teach Sanskrit the others of the

Khalsa, so they could read and understand Vedic texts and teachings. The

" brahmin " Sikh said he could not comply, because it was forbidden to share these

this knowledge with " unqualified " (ie., " lower caste " ) people. For this reason

Five Khalsa who also came from brahmin backgrounds accepted Guru Gobind Singh's

request to go to Benares, learn the Sanskrit thoroughly, and to come back and

teach it freely to the Khalsa. In other words, the Sikh Guru's were opposed to

the brahmin cultural hegemony and worked assiduously to overthrow it, in the

same they worked and fought assiduously to overthrow the Mughal empire. In

short, they were ENEMIES of the brahmin cultural hegemony in India. There are

more Hindus that Khalsas, we're highly outnumbered, but thoroughly unfazed by

issue of numbers. There are some people you can fool all of the time, there are

many people you can fool most of the time, and there are some people who cannot

be fooled. This includes the Buddha, Guru Nanak, and Guru Gobind Singh. AND

Siri Singh Sahib Yogi Bhajan ji was not fooled either. He came to North America

NOT to praise or perpetuate brahmin dominance of Kundalini Yoga, BUT TO BURY IT.

And for this release of heretofore tightly cultural secrets into the main

bloodstream of human availability, the Cat was Out of the Bag. As long as we

continue to teach in the manner by which he taught, THAT genii is not going to

go back into the bottle, either. It is an ongoing battle to eliminate us, or

for the brahmins to be eliminated as the sole, monopolistic gatekeepers of this

sacred, universal, cosmic knowledge of HOW to become joined with Wahe Guru,

without the ridiculous spectacle of a human being mimicking " guruship as your

lord and human master " (ie., social cultural slavery and bondage to an elite).

>

> Think of a police line up - in it are standing George W. Bush, Dick Cheney,

Karl Rove and Grover Norquist - all self-avowed enemies of populist human

self-determination. Isn't it obvious from the history of the past decade that

many people, even many so-called cultural " leaders " are actually practiced,

professional LIARS? Figuring out who they are, wherever they may be, even

perhaps arising from within our own midst as purported corporate leaders - who

are you willing to be fooled by? The only right answer is " No One. " The only

recourse is to rely solely and completely on the Infinite. Which is why Yogi

Bhajan repeatedly said, and repeatedly repeated, over, and over, and over again

- " DON'T CALL ON PEOPLE, CALL ON GOD. " Period. Deal with reality on your own,

in relation to the Infinite, or join the herd. The Khalsa did not become strong

by political power, we became strong by merging completely with the sole

spiritual power of Wahe Guru, with no imitations or surrogates, or human

gatekeepers, in between. That is why the first five Khalsa (Panj Piaras) were

required to accept Death as the gateway to Liberation, on the spot. Even more

than Patrick Henry, the first Khalsa said (in effect) " Please give my my Death

right now, so I can digest it and get on with a truly worthy Life. "

>

> Don't be surprised when you hear such slander. Just turn away. It smells

like a monster industrial lagoon of fecal matter next to a pig farm. It's not

hard to identify if your nostrils and your mind is clear. And it will happen.

It's not a Disney sanitized world, it's Wahe Guru's world, and only our karma

and grace determine where we'll land or who will confront us. If you read Rick

Ross speaking as if he's an authority on 3HO, It's Garbage. If a restaurant

serves you garbage on a salad plate, can you recognize it? Will you eat it? If

it confronts you, just remember to Keep Up and maintain your grace, you will be

kept up and guided back into the nectar of Sat Nam - Wahe Guru. Where else

would anyone in the clarity of " truth and mind " ever choose or want to be?

>

> for Love and many Blessings,

> Krishna Singh

>

>

> >

> > Kundalini-Yoga , " sat.tapa " <kundaliniyogini@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Sat Nam,

> > >

> > > Recently when starting up a new class in my hometown the director of the

studio was researching our style and was distressed by the second link availible

on a Google search for Kundalini Yoga @ Wikipedia the following passages in

particular i feel are biased in a negative light...

> > >

> > > " ...made public in the west by rogue disciples. Inability to follow

strict instructions of the Master, or practicing of methods without a living and

self-realized master, can lead to a series of psychic disturbances and sometimes

even mental damage [2]. The conditions are known in psychiatric circles as

Kundalini Syndrome.

> > >

> > > The psychiatrist Carl Jung warned that Kundalini Yoga could lead to

dissociation in which the mind purposely attempts to separate from its bodily

restrictions. He stated, " One often hears and reads about the dangers of yoga,

particularly of the ill-reputed Kundalini yoga. The deliberately induced

psychotic state, which in certain unstable individuals might easily lead to a

real psychosis, is a danger that needs to be taken very seriously indeed. These

things are really dangerous and ought not to be meddled with in our typically

western way. "

> > >

> > > So my question is rather than paying Google to place 3HO and IKTA higher

on the search engines queue...would anyone care to submit an article to

Wikipedia that could correct or offer another less inflammatory view to

prospective students?

> > >

> > > Sat Tapa

> > > Warrenton, VA

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam Fateh Singh,

 

Thanks for starting to redefine KY. Would you please define " typical Eastern

Kundalini style " ? Who teaches this? I thought KYTBYB was the only type

currently taught, at least on a large scale.

 

Guru Bandhu

 

It should obviously distinctly describe the differences and uniqueness of the

style as separate from -- but connected and built upon -- the typical Eastern

Kundalini style that has often gotten a poor representation online.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this insight into the roots of Kundalini Yoga. I think this should be

added in some part to the upcoming Wikipedia " KY as taught by YB " description.

 

We need your invaluable input Krishna Singh.

 

I feel there is justification however, with the concerns of new Kundalini Yoga

students who are also growing up in the second generation of teachers, while

also growing up in the new material era of TV/Advertising/Branding/Marketing and

the Internet.

 

On the one hand, it's fine to just ignore the slander and walk away from it. On

the other hand, each little bit of misdirection out there causes much larger

ripples in the pond when you take the larger picture of what is the " brand " of

Kundalini in the market.

 

I don't think it's presumptuous to say Kundalinis' marketable presence could use

a bit of a update. Just look at Transcendental Meditation. http://www.tm.org/ I

keep going back to this site because it's such a marvel of branding and design.

The message is cohesive and unified, and backed up with official,

authoritative, yet tasteful positioning.

 

Wow. We could really use a central marketing site like that... but for now, it's

all about TM, Hatha and Bikram out there. Kundalini is a small blip on the map

compared to other yogas.

 

It's too bad, because we all know it rocks more than those other yogas, right?

 

And yet since we're small and scattered in our messaging, the smallest bit of

misdirection has potential to hurt us as a group. And I don't necessarily agree

that we shouldn't let such trash affect us. If anything, I'd say it's

motivational. I want to use it as fuel.

 

I believe that, for myself and others, we'd like to see Kundalini Yoga as Taught

by Yogi Bhajan tastefully and cohesively positioned as a brand and style of yoga

that reflects its many beneficial aspects in a light that would bring in the

people who need it.

 

If we are ever to reach Yogi Bhajan's prediction that one day there would be

like 90+ Million of us out there, well... It's high time that we use our

resources to make that happen. People should gravitate to our yoga by the

hundreds of thousands!!

 

A small part of that work starts by identifying negative branding and slander

and explaining it away or countering it with an overwhelming amount of positive

positioning. This is the kind of work that a good branding or advertising agency

does -- but who is paying for that!?

 

OR we do it as a grassroots group... " viral " springs to mind.

 

Maybe it's as simple as getting a group of people together and forming a team

" For the Preservation and Improvement of the Image and Brand of Kundalini Yoga

Online " which meets once a week online to plan Wikipedia changes and post

favorable articles of Kundalini Yoga around the web. For example, we can do the

Squidoo Lenses once per week too, like what I already did yesterday.

 

" We need leaders " , one of my teachers once said to me.

 

And so, as I understand it, in our community when you come up with the idea, you

essentially also volunteer to lead it.

 

So, I suggest we start a new team. I'd be happy to head it up... until I fail in

my duties, or until someone better comes along.

 

I'm tired of typing... It's time for action and commitment. Anyone want to join

this team, " For the Preservation and Improvement of the Brand and Image of

Kundalini Yoga Online " ?

 

First order of business, we need a new name.

 

If you are interested, or have ideas, thoughts, skills, email me:

fatehsinghyoga

 

Don't respond here if you want to join... takes too long. I'm waiting at my desk

for your email.

 

We'll need digital sevodars, writers, designers, web coders, and basically

anyone familiar with a mouse and email. The rest we'll recruit as necessary. And

we need someone from 3HO and/or KRI to update us on what they are doing

brand-wise so we don't cross purposes needlessly (I actually heard at Winter

Solstice that one of these groups is launching a new site soon).

 

Sat Tapa you are in, I assume? Email me. First meeting is next week.

 

I'm serious. Let's do this. Even if you want to be involved, but can only help

with 1 hour per Month... or Year... Email me. I'll just put you on an email list

for updates of what we are doing.

 

Fateh Singh

http://www.fatehsinghyoga.com

 

A small slice of my past experience working online, at my portfolio:

http://www.filipstoj.com

 

--

[Guest guest]

Allow me to copy and paste an excerpt response given by someone else:

Satganesha, in this forum, discussing the topic " Demystifying Kundalini Yoga " .

Message number #8911 in April 2009.

 

"

> There is assumption in this group when using term " Kundalini Yoga " to limit

> its meaning to the teachings of Yogi Bhajan. In fact, Kundalini Yoga is much

> bigger then Yogi Bhajan and by no means he has exclusivity to it. There are

> many Hindu traditions and many Yogis of Hindu descent teaching Kundalini

> Yoga even today, in India and in Americas.

>

> Being certified teacher of Kundalini Yoga AS TAUGHT BY Yogi Bhajan, I find

> that he left a fantastic body of kriyas, meditations and chants And THAT

> legacy is exclusive to him. But only that. I find his other teachings in

> line with other masters talking about Kundalini Yoga - they may use

> different language and method but the essence is the same.

"

 

Krishna Singh and others can shine a brighter light on this than I... I just

know a difference exists - apparently as per the Hindu and Sikh cultural

backgrounds. To what extent that is in modern comparisons, I only have

experience with KYTaughtbyYB.

 

FS

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " greatyoga " <greatyoga wrote:

>

> Sat Nam Fateh Singh,

>

> Thanks for starting to redefine KY. Would you please define " typical Eastern

Kundalini style " ? Who teaches this? I thought KYTBYB was the only type

currently taught, at least on a large scale.

>

> Guru Bandhu

> e.

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, and for the record, I already went ahead and updated the introductory

description for " Kundalini yoga " in Wikipedia:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_yoga

 

I included the references to Sikhism that were missing, and I included reference

to Yogi Bhajan as well as references to KYasTaughtbyYB, and reference to 3HO and

KRI (no page existing yet).

 

We'll see how long it lasts. The meta-editors of Wiki may revert back to older

versions based on their whims, or if there's not enough evidence to support it.

 

I also totally deleted the reference to Carl Jung's hearsay, any reference to

" Kundalini Syndrome " and other negative phrasing. We'll see if that sticks, but

for now, BYE BYE negative references.

 

The fact is, you are totally free to enter in what you want on that page, and as

long as you reference it, and it's a legitimate, check-able item or improvement

it should stay.

 

Feel free to make your own changes, corrections, improvements, on your own, or

as I said before, come join our team: " Team for the Preservation of Yogi

Bhajans' Message Online " and we'll coordinate and work on things together as a

group.

 

Lastly, I apologize in advance for any errors, misconceptions, or omissions. I'm

trying my best, and learning while I go.

 

Fateh Singh

fatehsinghyoga

http://www.fatehsinghyoga.com

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " sat.tapa " wrote:

>

> The psychiatrist Carl Jung warned that Kundalini Yoga could lead to

dissociation in which the mind purposely attempts to separate from its bodily

restrictions. He stated, " One often hears and reads about the dangers of yoga,

particularly of the ill-reputed Kundalini yoga. "

 

Yea, thanks, Carl Jung... You never did the yoga, yet you wrote a book about it.

 

-FS

[Guest guest]

@Fateh Singh- WHAHE GURU!

 

PR is important! What you've submitted thus far looks great to me I am

willing to keep an eye out and join your group...the conversation can only

improve the impact of YB's message. Great Work!

 

With Gratiude,

Sat Tapa

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " Fateh Singh " <fatehsinghnyc wrote:

>

> Oh, and for the record, I already went ahead and updated the introductory

description for " Kundalini yoga " in Wikipedia:

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_yoga

>

> I included the references to Sikhism that were missing, and I included

reference to Yogi Bhajan as well as references to KYasTaughtbyYB, and reference

to 3HO and KRI (no page existing yet).

>

> We'll see how long it lasts. The meta-editors of Wiki may revert back to older

versions based on their whims, or if there's not enough evidence to support it.

>

> I also totally deleted the reference to Carl Jung's hearsay, any reference to

" Kundalini Syndrome " and other negative phrasing. We'll see if that sticks, but

for now, BYE BYE negative references.

>

> The fact is, you are totally free to enter in what you want on that page, and

as long as you reference it, and it's a legitimate, check-able item or

improvement it should stay.

>

> Feel free to make your own changes, corrections, improvements, on your own, or

as I said before, come join our team: " Team for the Preservation of Yogi

Bhajans' Message Online " and we'll coordinate and work on things together as a

group.

>

> Lastly, I apologize in advance for any errors, misconceptions, or omissions.

I'm trying my best, and learning while I go.

>

> Fateh Singh

> fatehsinghyoga

> http://www.fatehsinghyoga.com

>

>

> Kundalini-Yoga , " sat.tapa " wrote:

> >

> > The psychiatrist Carl Jung warned that Kundalini Yoga could lead to

dissociation in which the mind purposely attempts to separate from its bodily

restrictions. He stated, " One often hears and reads about the dangers of yoga,

particularly of the ill-reputed Kundalini yoga. "

>

> Yea, thanks, Carl Jung... You never did the yoga, yet you wrote a book about

it.

>

> -FS

>

[Guest guest]

Krishna Singh,

 

Sat Nam and thanks for your beautifully resonate post YB taught us that

Kundalini Yoga takes away one's capacity to be exploited. Har Har Mukunde! As

teachers we are lighthouses and mailmen/women sharing the householders Yoga. So

my question is, as a householder, if there is garbage on the salad plate is it

not my job to do those dishes gracefully?

 

with love,

Sat Tapa Kaur

 

 

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " sevaplace01 " <krishna wrote:

>

> Sat Nam, Sat Tapa Kaur -

> There is a simple explanation for the negativity about Kundalini Yoga on the

Wikipedia site you mentioned: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_yoga.

>

> The article makes itself very clear that it is all written entirely " ACCORDING

TO HINDU TRADITION. " If you understand what that means, and its implications to

Kundalini Yoga as taught by Yogi Bhajan - you have to understand and conclude

that these two points of view will NEVER be reconciled because they are

irreconcilable. Just as the Ptolemaic and Copernican views of the universe are

not reconcilable. Just as the Flat Earth and the Round Earth theories are not

reconcilable. Just as your mother was not your father, and your father was not

your mother. Yogi Bhajan found it necessary (at great risk to his life) to

overturn the Hindu cultural/philosophical dominance of Kundalini knowledge and

practice because the Hindu cultural model (ie., " BRAHMINISM " ) is an elitist

monopoly of what is rightfully a humanistic COMMONWEALTH of cultural treasure.

This is not a new insight - the Buddha himself was born into a brahmin family in

line to become a brahmin king - AND THE BUDDHA " WALKED. " He " split. " He

" turned on, tuned in and dropped out. "

>

> So also did Guru Nanak, who was born into the Bedi clan of a brahmin family.

At the age of seven, Guru Nanak refused to accept the " sacred cord " of brahmin

initiation. Everything about the practices he established - the Langar,

honoring the feminine, the Mother, visiting places of brahmin pilgrimage and

exposing the ridiculousness of offering water to the sun (by throwing water in

the direction of his distant farmlands as if to " irrigate " them from hundreds of

miles away) - all this was to dismantle the " Spell " and bewitchment of the human

mind from a mind controlling system of human DIS-empowerment and dominance.

>

> Guru Gobind Singh founded the Nirmala Order within the Khalsa Dharma (see

http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/sikh_nirmala.html) when a sikh who came from a

brahmin background (with all the sacred, secret Vedic knowledge attendant

thereto) whom Guru Gobind Singh request that he teach Sanskrit the others of the

Khalsa, so they could read and understand Vedic texts and teachings. The

" brahmin " Sikh said he could not comply, because it was forbidden to share these

this knowledge with " unqualified " (ie., " lower caste " ) people. For this reason

Five Khalsa who also came from brahmin backgrounds accepted Guru Gobind Singh's

request to go to Benares, learn the Sanskrit thoroughly, and to come back and

teach it freely to the Khalsa. In other words, the Sikh Guru's were opposed to

the brahmin cultural hegemony and worked assiduously to overthrow it, in the

same they worked and fought assiduously to overthrow the Mughal empire. In

short, they were ENEMIES of the brahmin cultural hegemony in India. There are

more Hindus that Khalsas, we're highly outnumbered, but thoroughly unfazed by

issue of numbers. There are some people you can fool all of the time, there are

many people you can fool most of the time, and there are some people who cannot

be fooled. This includes the Buddha, Guru Nanak, and Guru Gobind Singh. AND

Siri Singh Sahib Yogi Bhajan ji was not fooled either. He came to North America

NOT to praise or perpetuate brahmin dominance of Kundalini Yoga, BUT TO BURY IT.

And for this release of heretofore tightly cultural secrets into the main

bloodstream of human availability, the Cat was Out of the Bag. As long as we

continue to teach in the manner by which he taught, THAT genii is not going to

go back into the bottle, either. It is an ongoing battle to eliminate us, or

for the brahmins to be eliminated as the sole, monopolistic gatekeepers of this

sacred, universal, cosmic knowledge of HOW to become joined with Wahe Guru,

without the ridiculous spectacle of a human being mimicking " guruship as your

lord and human master " (ie., social cultural slavery and bondage to an elite).

>

> Think of a police line up - in it are standing George W. Bush, Dick Cheney,

Karl Rove and Grover Norquist - all self-avowed enemies of populist human

self-determination. Isn't it obvious from the history of the past decade that

many people, even many so-called cultural " leaders " are actually practiced,

professional LIARS? Figuring out who they are, wherever they may be, even

perhaps arising from within our own midst as purported corporate leaders - who

are you willing to be fooled by? The only right answer is " No One. " The only

recourse is to rely solely and completely on the Infinite. Which is why Yogi

Bhajan repeatedly said, and repeatedly repeated, over, and over, and over again

- " DON'T CALL ON PEOPLE, CALL ON GOD. " Period. Deal with reality on your own,

in relation to the Infinite, or join the herd. The Khalsa did not become strong

by political power, we became strong by merging completely with the sole

spiritual power of Wahe Guru, with no imitations or surrogates, or human

gatekeepers, in between. That is why the first five Khalsa (Panj Piaras) were

required to accept Death as the gateway to Liberation, on the spot. Even more

than Patrick Henry, the first Khalsa said (in effect) " Please give my my Death

right now, so I can digest it and get on with a truly worthy Life. "

>

> Don't be surprised when you hear such slander. Just turn away. It smells

like a monster industrial lagoon of fecal matter next to a pig farm. It's not

hard to identify if your nostrils and your mind is clear. And it will happen.

It's not a Disney sanitized world, it's Wahe Guru's world, and only our karma

and grace determine where we'll land or who will confront us. If you read Rick

Ross speaking as if he's an authority on 3HO, It's Garbage. If a restaurant

serves you garbage on a salad plate, can you recognize it? Will you eat it? If

it confronts you, just remember to Keep Up and maintain your grace, you will be

kept up and guided back into the nectar of Sat Nam - Wahe Guru. Where else

would anyone in the clarity of " truth and mind " ever choose or want to be?

>

> for Love and many Blessings,

> Krishna Singh

>

>

> >

> > Kundalini-Yoga , " sat.tapa " <kundaliniyogini@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Sat Nam,

> > >

> > > Recently when starting up a new class in my hometown the director of the

studio was researching our style and was distressed by the second link availible

on a Google search for Kundalini Yoga @ Wikipedia the following passages in

particular i feel are biased in a negative light...

> > >

> > > " ...made public in the west by rogue disciples. Inability to follow

strict instructions of the Master, or practicing of methods without a living and

self-realized master, can lead to a series of psychic disturbances and sometimes

even mental damage [2]. The conditions are known in psychiatric circles as

Kundalini Syndrome.

> > >

> > > The psychiatrist Carl Jung warned that Kundalini Yoga could lead to

dissociation in which the mind purposely attempts to separate from its bodily

restrictions. He stated, " One often hears and reads about the dangers of yoga,

particularly of the ill-reputed Kundalini yoga. The deliberately induced

psychotic state, which in certain unstable individuals might easily lead to a

real psychosis, is a danger that needs to be taken very seriously indeed. These

things are really dangerous and ought not to be meddled with in our typically

western way. "

> > >

> > > So my question is rather than paying Google to place 3HO and IKTA higher

on the search engines queue...would anyone care to submit an article to

Wikipedia that could correct or offer another less inflammatory view to

prospective students?

> > >

> > > Sat Tapa

> > > Warrenton, VA

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

" I also totally deleted the reference to Carl Jung's hearsay, any

reference to " Kundalini Syndrome " and other negative phrasing. We'll

see if that sticks, but for now, BYE BYE negative references. " This is not a good way to improve Kundalini's image.  This is essentially lying by omission.  What should have been done, is add information to refute Jung's statement.  Show proof that he never practiced Kundalini and that his assertions are invalid. 

Simply deleting the statement does nothing to change the mind of someone who has a negative opinion.  At one point I had gone online to see, for myself, what information there was on the negative view.  The wikipedia entry with Jung's statement allowed me to know one of the reasons behind the negative view point, to better explain it to my students. 

Please, for the advancement of truth - put the statement back in, and then follow it up with the reasons why Jung's theory is incorrect.  Yours, in Peace, -- Deena H. Blumenfeld, RYT

Yoga InstructorCertified Khalsa Way Prenatal Yoga InstructorChildbirth Educator(m) 412-915-6167http://www.shininglightyoga.com " When a person does his work not only for money but out of love, he brings out that love in others. "

-Isaac Bashevis Singer

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam Deena,

 

Thanks for your opinion. It is valuable and illustrates the many issues and

debates people have on Wikipedia about its format.

 

But, in this case, actually, the onus is not on me to show proof - Carl Jung in

his own book, and even in the pull-quote itself, self-categorizes his own view

as hearsay. He never actually did the yoga as I understand it, and definitely he

never did KYatbYB. So, it's up to Carl Jung to show the proof.

 

Wikipedia is an interesting animal... Essentially their guideline is that only

backed up and referenced facts that are published in 3rd party sources are

admissible. They also strive to promote a non-judgmental and neutral voice. It's

actually helping them (and readers) when we correct something that is already up

there, challenge it, delete it, or refute it.

 

[[ACTUALLY SINCE my changes as of yesterday someone already moved the entire

posting I did of Sikh-based Kundalini yoga down the page to a separate category,

and re-posted the paragraph of the prominence of the Hindu based view of

Kundalini yoga at the top of the page with the reference to " Kundalini

Syndrome " . ]]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_yoga

 

[[bUT since THIS posting, I have already added it back in a new format It's

like a battle of attrition...]]

 

If anyone would like to add in their own sources of negative or misconceived

references to Kundalini Yoga on Wikipedia, reference them, and then refute them,

it is an open source resource and that's entirely up to you. Just warning you

ahead of time that it's not always easy to get new items added to Wiki when you

don't have 3rd party references - meaning that simply pointing to a KY book or

words from Yogi Bhajan as to why " this ain't true " won't usually be accepted.

You actually have to reference things outside of 1st source publications. You

can't just logically refute the argument without " proof " .

 

[[Plus, other people have their own agendas and interests in keeping things in

their view point as well, as I mentioned above - it's always changing these

pages! And not always reliably.]]

 

Personally, I'd keep Carl Jungs negative quotes in his book, or just reveal the

positive ones - or even more ideally, the ones that enhance our knowledge of KY

in a neutral voice without a negative or positive slant.

 

[[We also have to consider who put that quote up, what their background was,

when it was, what was their knowledge of KY, and why they put up just that one

reference out of the entire book. Keep in mind most posters are anonymous.]]

 

In my opinion, it's great in a class setting to refute these things - bring in

as many similar topics as you like; it's a great way to provoke, confront and

elevate - but for every 1 of your students who learn from it in your class,

there's 1,000 other users of Google and Wikipedia who read it who neither have

access to your class to have the truth revealed, nor will they ever be

interested in the truth or your class because their view was already tainted by

such hearsay.

 

Also, if you would like to work with me and few others to discuss changes,

ideas, and additions before they go up, please join up with us. Just email me.

 

Yours,

Fateh

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , Deena Blumenfeld

> This is not a good way to improve Kundalini's image. This is essentially

> lying by omission. What should have been done, is add information to refute

> Jung's statement. Show proof that he never practiced Kundalini and that his

> assertions are invalid.

>

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam Deena and all...

 

So, just to elucidate on the Wiki changes and the (friendly) " battle of

attrition " that is going on, the changes back and forth between me and a single

user called " Atmapuri " are referenced like this:

 

When he changes them back, he comments:

# (Added back the link to Kundalini Syndrome. In the west the problems are wide

spread and this cross-reference should be included.) (undo)

 

Are they " wide spread " ? What is his " proof " point for this? Where is this guy

coming from, literally, and figuratively?

 

And again, after re-posting the Hindu version exclusively:

# (Yoga has copyright by Shiva. Moved Sikh based practice to its own topic.

Warning about mental health should remain to protect. Problems are very

widespread.)

 

" Yoga " has a copyright by Shiva!?? What does that mean?

 

And " Mental health problems... are widespread " .

 

Yes, on that point I agree with him... which is why exactly why Atmapuri should

be practicing more yoga.

 

Fateh Singh

 

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , Deena Blumenfeld <deena.blumenfeld

wrote:

 

> This is essentially lying by omission... Show proof...