Spreading Sri Vaishnava Sampradayam across the world

June 29, 2007

SrI:SrimatE rAmAnujAyA namaH Srimad Varavara MunayE namaH Dear Sri Vineeth SwAmin, What amazing points!! Thank you a million times for raising these points of concern in this good forum. Unfortunately, Srivaishnavism has been associated with Iyengars which is wrong, in adiyEn's humble opinion. Iyengars are a (brahmin) caste, and as a religion they are supposed to follow Srivaishnavism, that is all. Also, Iyengars are tamil-speaking and hence the confusion. Your example on ISKCON is accurate. I am yet to come across a book in any religion discussing any philosophy even remotely close to the calibre of SwAmi Sri prabhupAdA's Bhagawad Gita or Srimad Bhagawatham. adiyEn humbly requests all the contributing authors in this forum to kindly make it as generic as possible and when it comes to quoting AzhwArs or AchAryAs, kindly take the effort to translate them to simple english. Ofcourse, charity begins at home and adiyEn will try to do so as

well. Again, adiyEn applauds you for your very valid, sincere points. dasoham. adiyEn. AzhwAr emperumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE Saranam. Venkata Vineeth K <kvvineeth wrote: Srimathe Ramanujaya NamahaSrimad Varavara Munaye NamahaSrimannarayana Ramanuja Yatibhyo NamahaOm Asmad Gurubhyo NamahaJai Srimannarayana Pranamams to the feet of all bhagavatas! We have been reading several posts in this groups for quite sometime. We are glad that there are so many scholars and knowledgable people here. Our dasohams to all of you. We have d to the groups, in the hope of learning more of our glorious Sampradayam. But here is our disappointment.. Please note the difficulty people might face:1. Many of the non-tamil Sri Vaishnavas do not understand the tamil usage - words, pasurams etc. 2. There is no translation for the pasurams. For ex: You mention 'this is how Alwar experienced Perumal' and pasuram quotation goes... !! And we will never know what Alwar experienced, if you do not translate the Pasurams. 3. Except in Tamilnadu, most parts of the country uses the Lunar Calendar. We are unable to match the nakshatram information and we donot understand the month names you

use. It will be nice if you use Sanskrit names along with Tamil names. 4. Sometimes, when you are requesting donations, the wordings are also in Tamil.. For example "Please donate for the Tirumadil..." So what is Tirumadil ? We very well understand that Tamil is an integral part of Sri Vaishnava Sampradayam. But Sri Vaishnavam cannot be only for Tamil speakers/Tamil speaking Sri Vaishnavas! Many of us would want to learn Tamil to understand, experience the words - no doubt. But it cannot happen if you dont use Tamil with equivalent English/Sanskrit words.. So, in the groups, it is better to have Tamil words with equivalent English/Sanskrit words.. It is fact that English is a lowly language when it comes to expressing the Alwars feelings, experiences, etc.. But still, since it is the chosen language of the groups, it will be nice to write postings not only for ardent Sri vaishnavas but also for commoners alike..including Americans etc You can help interested devotees by this way: Try to put the English/Sanskrit translation in brackets or vice-versa. Many like us are more familiar with Sanskrit terminologies, since it is more widely used in many parts of India and the world, than Tamil. So whenever there are any Sanskrit words, just try not to Tamilize them.. For example: "Avatarika (introduction) can be kept as Avatarika only instead of making it a "avatarikai" ! , Pratishta and not Pratishtai. Rama and not Ramar, or Chakravarthi Tirumagan ? For Swamy's names like Ramar, Krishnan...you could use them, but just put the actual name too in brackets...or vice-versa. Put the Alwars, Acharyas Sanskrit names too in

brackets... If ISKCON had stuck to Bengali, it would have been nowhere now ! Since Ramanuja Sampradayam has to spread everywhere in this world - as teachers, and scholars, you carry more responsibility than the seekers. This way you can make everyone feel part of this great Sampradayam.. We sincerely pray and beg your pardon again and again at your feet for any offences committed... Bhagavat Bhaagavata Acharya Kainkarya Rupena, Adiyen Venkata Vineeth Ramanuja Dasa Adiyen Deepa Ramanuja Dasi Jai Srimannarayana! Alwar Emperumanaar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam! Sri Chinnajeeyar Swamiji Thiruvadigale Saranam! "Surrender to SRIMANNARAYANA! Serve

HIM and HIS true devotees (Bha:gavatas) with intense devotion" oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

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June 30, 2007

Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama: Dear Thiru (Shri) Venkata Vineeth Swamin, Adien (humble servant) perfectly agree with Devareer's (your) agonising observations about Tamizh words ALONE being used in the messages. This adien (H.S.) too used to think about as non-Tamilians are in this group. Dheevaree (you) are right in recommending to use English words also in brackets. Since the messages are sent by individuals or groups, they can take this suggestion and follow it ardently. Vaishnava Sampradhayam is not just of Tamilians alone and the messages should reach all the Vaishnavas of different linguistic groups. Though there are certain great scholars also who write in this group who are Tamilians, they too

can follow Dhevareer's (your) advice in the interest of outreach of Vaishnavism. Adien (H.S.) too pray that everyone follows this procedure as far as possible. Adien (your humble servant) Ramanuja Dhasan, Vinjamoor S. Vijaya Raghavan. Venkata Vineeth K <kvvineeth wrote: Srimathe Ramanujaya NamahaSrimad Varavara Munaye NamahaSrimannarayana

Ramanuja Yatibhyo NamahaOm Asmad Gurubhyo NamahaJai Srimannarayana Pranamams to the feet of all bhagavatas! We have been reading several posts in this groups for quite sometime. We are glad that there are so many scholars and knowledgable people here. Our dasohams to all of you. We have d to the groups, in the hope of learning more of our glorious Sampradayam. But here is our disappointment.. Please note the difficulty people might face:1. Many of the non-tamil Sri Vaishnavas do not understand the tamil

usage - words, pasurams etc. 2. There is no translation for the pasurams. For ex: You mention 'this is how Alwar experienced Perumal' and pasuram quotation goes... !! And we will never know what Alwar experienced, if you do not translate the Pasurams. 3. Except in Tamilnadu, most parts of the country uses the Lunar Calendar. We are unable to match the nakshatram information and we donot understand the month names you use. It will be nice if you use Sanskrit names along with Tamil names. 4. Sometimes, when you are requesting donations, the wordings are also in Tamil.. For example "Please donate for the Tirumadil..." So what is Tirumadil ? We very well understand that Tamil is an integral part of Sri Vaishnava Sampradayam. But Sri Vaishnavam cannot be only for Tamil speakers/Tamil speaking Sri Vaishnavas! Many of us would want to learn Tamil to understand, experience the words - no doubt. But it cannot happen if you dont use Tamil with equivalent English/Sanskrit words.. So, in the groups, it is better to have Tamil words with equivalent English/Sanskrit words.. It is fact that English is a lowly language when it comes to expressing the Alwars feelings, experiences, etc.. But still, since it is the chosen language of the groups, it will be nice to write postings not only for ardent Sri vaishnavas but also for commoners alike..including Americans etc You can help interested devotees by this way: Try to put the English/Sanskrit translation in brackets or vice-versa. Many like us are more familiar with Sanskrit terminologies, since it is more widely used in many parts of India and the world, than Tamil. So whenever there are any Sanskrit words, just try not to Tamilize them.. For example: "Avatarika (introduction) can be kept as Avatarika only instead of making it a "avatarikai" ! , Pratishta and not Pratishtai. Rama and not Ramar, or Chakravarthi Tirumagan ? For Swamy's names like Ramar, Krishnan...you could use them, but just put the actual name too in brackets...or vice-versa. Put the Alwars, Acharyas Sanskrit names too in brackets... If ISKCON had stuck to Bengali, it would have been nowhere now ! Since Ramanuja Sampradayam has to spread everywhere in this world - as teachers, and scholars, you carry more responsibility than the seekers. This way you can make everyone feel part of this great Sampradayam.. We sincerely pray and beg your pardon again and again at your feet for any offences committed... Bhagavat Bhaagavata Acharya Kainkarya Rupena, Adiyen Venkata Vineeth Ramanuja Dasa Adiyen Deepa Ramanuja Dasi Jai Srimannarayana! Alwar Emperumanaar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam! Sri Chinnajeeyar Swamiji Thiruvadigale Saranam! "Surrender to SRIMANNARAYANA! Serve HIM and HIS true devotees (Bha:gavatas) with intense devotion" oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

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July 2, 2007

ramanuja , vimalkumar ranganathan

<panardasan wrote:

>

> SrI:

> SrimatE rAmAnujAyA namaH

> Srimad Varavara MunayE namaH

>

Dear Sriman Vimalkumar,

Not necessarily, given the migrations that took place to AP over

centuries. Nowadays there may be English speaking Iyengars as well!

adiyen

Vishnu

> Also, Iyengars are tamil-speaking and hence the confusion.

>

July 2, 2007

ramanuja , Venkata Vineeth K <kvvineeth

wrote:

>

Dear Sriman Vineeth and Smt Deepa,

The tradition of following solar calenar came from Kerala region, I

heard. In Tamil Nadu also, they celebrate the upAkarma which is

called AvaNi avittam on the lunar Sravana poorNima as they did last

year and not on the day of Tamil Avani month on avittam (dhanishTA)

day.

When it comes to poorvacharyas and Krishna, the tradition is to

cleberate their birthdays as per their birthstar that falls in the

appropriate Tamil Month. These months are beautifully translated

into sanskrit as mEsham (Sitthirai), vrshabham etc.. This means when

they are translated into sanskrit, they have used the name of rASi.

Coming to the fourth issue, there is nothing wrong in writing rAmar,

Krishnan etc., for the words " rAma " , krshNa " are also not perfect.

If you want to use sanskrt, u have to write them

as " rAmaha " , " krshNaha " etc.. Words like chakravarthi thirumahan are

used by poorvacharyas and hence are dear to SVs. Only thing is, for

the sake of better understanding, the authors can put rAma etc. in

brackets.

dasan

Vishnu

>

> 3. Except in Tamilnadu, most parts of the country uses the Lunar

Calendar. We are unable to match the nakshatram information and we

donot understand the month names you use.

> It will be nice if you use Sanskrit names along with Tamil names.

>

> 4. Sometimes, when you are requesting donations, the wordings

are also in Tamil.. For example " Please donate for the

Tirumadil... " So what is Tirumadil ?

>

> We very well understand that Tamil is an integral part of Sri

Vaishnava Sampradayam. But Sri Vaishnavam cannot be only for Tamil

speakers/Tamil speaking Sri Vaishnavas!

> Many of us would want to learn Tamil to understand, experience

the words - no doubt. But it cannot happen if you dont use Tamil

with equivalent English/Sanskrit words..

>

> So, in the groups, it is better to have Tamil words with

equivalent English/Sanskrit words..

>

> It is fact that English is a lowly language when it comes to

expressing the Alwars feelings, experiences, etc..

> But still, since it is the chosen language of the groups, it

will be nice to write postings not only for ardent Sri vaishnavas

but also for commoners alike..including Americans etc

>

> You can help interested devotees by this way:

> Try to put the English/Sanskrit translation in brackets or vice-

versa.

> Many like us are more familiar with Sanskrit terminologies,

since it is more widely used in many parts of India and the world,

than Tamil. So whenever there are any Sanskrit words, just try not

to Tamilize them.. For example: " Avatarika (introduction) can be

kept as Avatarika only instead of making it a " avatarikai " ! ,

Pratishta and not Pratishtai.

>

> Rama and not Ramar, or Chakravarthi Tirumagan ?

> For Swamy's names like Ramar, Krishnan...you could use them, but

just put the actual name too in brackets...or vice-versa.

> Put the Alwars, Acharyas Sanskrit names too in brackets...

>

> If ISKCON had stuck to Bengali, it would have been nowhere now !

>

> Since Ramanuja Sampradayam has to spread everywhere in this

world - as teachers, and scholars, you carry more responsibility

than the seekers.

>

> This way you can make everyone feel part of this great

Sampradayam..

>

> We sincerely pray and beg your pardon again and again at your

feet for any offences committed...

>

> Bhagavat Bhaagavata Acharya Kainkarya Rupena,

> Adiyen Venkata Vineeth Ramanuja Dasa

> Adiyen Deepa Ramanuja Dasi

>

> Jai Srimannarayana!

> Alwar Emperumanaar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam!

> Sri Chinnajeeyar Swamiji Thiruvadigale Saranam!

>

> " Surrender to SRIMANNARAYANA! Serve HIM and HIS true devotees

(Bha:gavatas) with intense devotion "

>

> oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not

web links.

>

July 2, 2007

adiyEn has just one statement to make:) When we people make our full

effort to learn English which is a mileccha language just to fulfill

our materialistic quests, why can't we with the same sincerity(if not

more), learn the sweet tamizh language that was used to compose the

great aruLichcheyal by AzhwArs? The sweetness of the language is lost

when simply put in other languages. For those non tamil speaking

sriVaishnavAs, my sincere request would be that you all learn Tamil

the same way you had put efforts to learn english. It is much worth to

do so and then learn the aruLiccheyal than simply expect such forums

to translate every word. It is because of the unfortunate fact that

the entire internet works with english that this this forum had been

made to use the same language. Sooner or later, I am sure, even this

would turn into tamizh:)

No offence meant on anyone. kshamikka vEnum!

adiyEn,

rAmAnuja dAsan

ramanuja , " Vishnu " <vsmvishnu wrote:

>

> ramanuja , Venkata Vineeth K <kvvineeth@>

> wrote:

> >

> Dear Sriman Vineeth and Smt Deepa,

>

> The tradition of following solar calenar came from Kerala region, I

> heard. In Tamil Nadu also, they celebrate the upAkarma which is

> called AvaNi avittam on the lunar Sravana poorNima as they did last

> year and not on the day of Tamil Avani month on avittam (dhanishTA)

> day.

>

> When it comes to poorvacharyas and Krishna, the tradition is to

> cleberate their birthdays as per their birthstar that falls in the

> appropriate Tamil Month. These months are beautifully translated

> into sanskrit as mEsham (Sitthirai), vrshabham etc.. This means when

> they are translated into sanskrit, they have used the name of rASi.

>

> Coming to the fourth issue, there is nothing wrong in writing rAmar,

> Krishnan etc., for the words " rAma " , krshNa " are also not perfect.

> If you want to use sanskrt, u have to write them

> as " rAmaha " , " krshNaha " etc.. Words like chakravarthi thirumahan are

> used by poorvacharyas and hence are dear to SVs. Only thing is, for

> the sake of better understanding, the authors can put rAma etc. in

> brackets.

>

> dasan

> Vishnu

>

> >

> > 3. Except in Tamilnadu, most parts of the country uses the Lunar

> Calendar. We are unable to match the nakshatram information and we

> donot understand the month names you use.

> > It will be nice if you use Sanskrit names along with Tamil names.

> >

> > 4. Sometimes, when you are requesting donations, the wordings

> are also in Tamil.. For example " Please donate for the

> Tirumadil... " So what is Tirumadil ?

> >

> > We very well understand that Tamil is an integral part of Sri

> Vaishnava Sampradayam. But Sri Vaishnavam cannot be only for Tamil

> speakers/Tamil speaking Sri Vaishnavas!

> > Many of us would want to learn Tamil to understand, experience

> the words - no doubt. But it cannot happen if you dont use Tamil

> with equivalent English/Sanskrit words..

> >

> > So, in the groups, it is better to have Tamil words with

> equivalent English/Sanskrit words..

> >

> > It is fact that English is a lowly language when it comes to

> expressing the Alwars feelings, experiences, etc..

> > But still, since it is the chosen language of the groups, it

> will be nice to write postings not only for ardent Sri vaishnavas

> but also for commoners alike..including Americans etc

> >

> > You can help interested devotees by this way:

> > Try to put the English/Sanskrit translation in brackets or vice-

> versa.

> > Many like us are more familiar with Sanskrit terminologies,

> since it is more widely used in many parts of India and the world,

> than Tamil. So whenever there are any Sanskrit words, just try not

> to Tamilize them.. For example: " Avatarika (introduction) can be

> kept as Avatarika only instead of making it a " avatarikai " ! ,

> Pratishta and not Pratishtai.

> >

> > Rama and not Ramar, or Chakravarthi Tirumagan ?

> > For Swamy's names like Ramar, Krishnan...you could use them, but

> just put the actual name too in brackets...or vice-versa.

> > Put the Alwars, Acharyas Sanskrit names too in brackets...

> >

> > If ISKCON had stuck to Bengali, it would have been nowhere now !

> >

> > Since Ramanuja Sampradayam has to spread everywhere in this

> world - as teachers, and scholars, you carry more responsibility

> than the seekers.

> >

> > This way you can make everyone feel part of this great

> Sampradayam..

> >

> > We sincerely pray and beg your pardon again and again at your

> feet for any offences committed...

> >

> > Bhagavat Bhaagavata Acharya Kainkarya Rupena,

> > Adiyen Venkata Vineeth Ramanuja Dasa

> > Adiyen Deepa Ramanuja Dasi

> >

> > Jai Srimannarayana!

> > Alwar Emperumanaar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam!

> > Sri Chinnajeeyar Swamiji Thiruvadigale Saranam!

> >

> > " Surrender to SRIMANNARAYANA! Serve HIM and HIS true devotees

> (Bha:gavatas) with intense devotion "

> >

> > oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not

> web links.

> >

>

July 3, 2007

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hash: SHA1

sri: [*]

Dear Devotees: Please accept adiyen's pranam,

[*] [*]

Most of the people who write regularly are well known to me and they are

well versed in multiple languages and are truly doing a service by

giving us their time. Every time a devotee writes something, they are

taking time off their busy lives to help others. They have regular jobs,

families, temple services and other commitments. My sincere

appreciation to the devotees who are able to contribute and help other

devotees in this manner.

Though the points raised by sri (*) Vineeth have some merit, it is

virtually a show stopper to follow the suggestion to the tee. In fact it

is detrimental to any learning.

To add an additional burden of translating, getting the correct and

appropriate words in other languages is a very time consuming task for

devotees who write without altering the purvacharyas (*) work, intent

and meanings.

For those who write carefully with much regard to keep the message

intact, it is very not easy to write/ translate in other languages. If

they are subject " with compulsion/ coercion " to having to translate

every thing it is an added overhead on the person trying to teach, it

will slow them down considerably.

With emails written by some devotees (as per purvacharyas (*) works),

there is so much one can learn if truly interested in learning. Read on

only if the intent is to learn,

All this is available by HIS grace for anyone interested,

1: Contact a local person in your area who is well versed in tamil, to

help understand the words/ pasurams (*).

If not possible,

2: Ask for some one to help (over the phone) in this forum

If not possible,

3: Ask the original writer for english translation/ meanings etc.

English sources:

There are about 500 audio hours of authentic English vyakhyanams (*)

available at vedics.net (eg: Basics of Vaishnavam, Ramayanam, Bharatham,

Puranam, Bhagawath Githa etc...) (*)

All the important rahasyams (*), classes are conducted for the audiences

interested in learning about 200 non-tamil (*) students have benefited

from it.

[[ (If interested in learning Thirumantram (*) Dwayam(*), CharamaSlokam

(*), please email me.)]]

There are many classes being conducted in tele-bridges in English by

authentic scholars of Ramanuja (*) Sampradaya (*) , who will not deviate

from the originals.

By talking to others, you will get the satsangham (*) as well as learn

the meanings.

Please take the above message as a solution to learning.

==================================================================

(*) Not understood by an average Indian devotee at a local temple in

Chicago.

Please find the *'s in your emails below, and evaluate honestly how much

you will and can write in other languages to convey the same words in *,

At the same time if an interested devotee calls you with your email in

front asking for explanation, i am sure you will (as any devotee)

explain the meanings to best of your abilities.

Ramanuja Dasan (*)

Mukundan Vangipuram Pattangi

=========================================

vimalkumar ranganathan wrote:

> SrI: (*)

> SrimatE (*) rAmAnujAyA (*) namaH (*)

> Srimad (*) Varavara (*) MunayE (*) namaH (*)

>

> Dear Sri (*) Vineeth SwAmin (*),

>

> dasoham. (*)

>

> adiyEn.(*)

>

> AzhwAr (*) emperumAnAr (*) jeeyar (*) thiruvadigaLE (*) Saranam. (*)

>

> Venkata Vineeth K <kvvineeth wrote:

> Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha (*)

> Srimad Varavara Munaye Namaha (*)

> Srimannarayana Ramanuja Yatibhyo Namaha (*)

> Om Asmad Gurubhyo Namaha (*)

> Jai Srimannarayana Pranamams to the feet of all bhagavatas! (*)

>

> Bhagavat Bhaagavata Acharya Kainkarya Rupena, (*)

> Adiyen Venkata Vineeth Ramanuja Dasa (*)

> Adiyen Deepa Ramanuja Dasi (*)

>

> Jai Srimannarayana! (*)

> Alwar Emperumanaar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam! (*)

> Sri Chinnajeeyar Swamiji Thiruvadigale Saranam! (*)

>

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July 3, 2007

Sri:Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama:Srimath Varavara Munaye Nama:adiyen could not agree more with Sri.Lakshminrusimhan swami. Even those who claim Thamizh as their 'mother' tongue do not take any effort in learning the 'Mother' language Thamizh. Even great scholars who have written excellent translations in English have all unanimously agreed that the sweetness of Azhvars words can never be explained in an alien language like English.The same expectation applies to people speaking Telugu and Kanada also. Infact, there are numerous Telugu scholars who have written wonderful commentaries equivalent to the 'manipravala' vyakyanams. Kanchi swami has written number of works in Telugu. An attempt should be made to learn from those

work.Some where in this thread there was a mention about ISKCON publishing their literature in English. No doubt, ISKCON has done a marvelous job in English. However, their target audience to begin with is English speaking westerners. Also, ISKCON translates their material in various regional languages based on the country. adiyen personally have traveled to lot of ISKCON centers in UP and TamilNadu in India. It is predominantly Hindi/Bengali in the northern parts.adiyenRamanuja dasanv.lakshminrusimhan <v.lakshminrusimhanramanuja Sent: Monday, July 2, 2007 3:10:56 PM[sri ramanuja] Re: Spreading Sri Vaishnava Sampradayam across the world