New USA chart proposal

March 4, 2007

Hi Raj,

I think if you want to credit this chart you'll have to bring out the

astrological and historical justifications in detail, the significant

events, and provide predictions as done recently in the 21 Cn chart.

My two cents:

1) the natal promise of this chart does not match the USA, the most

powerful, influential and wealthy nation in the world. A quick inspection of

the strength of the Sun, and exact affliction to SLP's in this chart is

enough to raise both eyebrows. Additionally Mars in H12 will take the entity

to conflicts, but ultimately losses in/due to battles. There would also be

constant unrest within the land with alot of violent, explosive natural

disasters, constantly. Also the nature of the Cp ascendant - the USA is not

a servant of any nation. These are just a few points. The character does not

match.

2) In order to move forward on a merger between companies, you have to sign

the initial paperwork. The time you start this determines how well the

merger process go. The deal isn't done, i.e. the new company isn't created,

born, until the final signatures are on by the key parties. Historically,

this is parallel and should be given due consideration.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,

Vyas Munidas

PS: You should be using the LMT instead of -5

-

" rkchadha " <rkctech

Sunday, March 04, 2007 9:06 PM

New USA chart proposal

Dear Thor, Jorge, , and others:

There have been a lot of discussions on this board about finding an

appropriate chart for the country USA. I know that Jorge feels

strongly about 7/2/1776, 4:49pm, and Thor about 2/2/1781, 5:05 pm. Yet

I would like all of you to consider seriously another chart, which

contains all the elements Jorge, Thor and even Ron Grimes feel

strongly about.

I have studied all the arguments on this board about the choice of

2/2/1781 and 3/3/1781, that it was the last vote or the ratification

of confederation that can only the beginning or birth of USA. But in

fact it should be the time and date when the confederation was

established the USA became a country of group of states united under

one government. That time was the meeting time (11AM to 2PM) when the

articles of confederation was passed on Nov 15, 1777 in York,

Pennsylvania by the continental Congress. Considering the historical

events of the USA I rectify the time of birth to be12:25pm, which is

almost in the middle of the meeting. Here is the chart I am proposing

for USA, and I will describe briefly now how it shows not only the

elements you people feel so strongly about but also how it explains

the character of USA and some of the important historical events.

Here the rising degree is Capricorn 21 instead of Cancer 21. The

placement and strength of Moon, Saturn, Venus and Mercury in Libra

shows the financial prowess of the country, intellectual pursuits and

scientific achievements, and adoption of the principles of justice and

liberty for all. The placement of Mars and Ketu on MEP of 12H, in the

martial sign of Sagittarius indicates its military strength and

history of fighting wars on foreign lands. The aspect of Rahu on

Mercury and Saturn shows why every era of financial exuberance

accompanied with manipulation and fraud, and ended abruptly. Together

these planets show why its economy is tied with the wars and

conflicts. 12L is in the 8H indicating continuous natural calamities

and disasters. Capricorn ascendant and the strength of Saturn shows

its ability to fight back such disasters and emerge ever more

powerfully. Many people feel that USA has Scorpio nature. Here the

Sun-sign is Scorpio.

Transit studies of most devastating dates (12/7/1941, 9/11/2001,

10/25/1929, 10/19/1987) show cc/ca of either Jupiter and Sun (FM and

MMP) or Mars and Ketu (both violent planets). This confirms that both

Sun and Jupiter are FM's for USA not Jupiter and Saturn as in Cancer

21degree chart. Assassinations of its presidents have also taken place

when Sun was severely afflicted and badly placed in the Capricorn

rising chart.

I know Thor is emotionally attached to 2/2/1781 chart like Jorge to

7/2/1776 chart. But I humbly request all of you to please look at this

chart and evaluate and compare with other charts before accepting a

final chart for USA.

Thanks

Raj Chadha

March 4, 2007

Hello dear Mr. Chadha,

When we are searching the truth one has to be objective in one's

analysis/approach without being attached to any of the charts including the

one proposed by the person his/her ownself. Natal promise in the chart is

first of all important and then the transit influences and the sub periods

help up in identifying the results. I personally and others will certainly

explore the truth in the chart proposed by you in comparison to the

proposals already with us.

Best wishes.

-

" rkchadha " <rkctech

Monday, March 05, 2007 7:36 AM

New USA chart proposal

| Dear Thor, Jorge, , and others:

|

| There have been a lot of discussions on this board about finding an

| appropriate chart for the country USA. I know that Jorge feels

| strongly about 7/2/1776, 4:49pm, and Thor about 2/2/1781, 5:05 pm. Yet

| I would like all of you to consider seriously another chart, which

| contains all the elements Jorge, Thor and even Ron Grimes feel

| strongly about.

|

| I have studied all the arguments on this board about the choice of

| 2/2/1781 and 3/3/1781, that it was the last vote or the ratification

| of confederation that can only the beginning or birth of USA. But in

| fact it should be the time and date when the confederation was

| established the USA became a country of group of states united under

| one government. That time was the meeting time (11AM to 2PM) when the

| articles of confederation was passed on Nov 15, 1777 in York,

| Pennsylvania by the continental Congress. Considering the historical

| events of the USA I rectify the time of birth to be12:25pm, which is

| almost in the middle of the meeting. Here is the chart I am proposing

| for USA, and I will describe briefly now how it shows not only the

| elements you people feel so strongly about but also how it explains

| the character of USA and some of the important historical events.

|

| Here the rising degree is Capricorn 21 instead of Cancer 21. The

| placement and strength of Moon, Saturn, Venus and Mercury in Libra

| shows the financial prowess of the country, intellectual pursuits and

| scientific achievements, and adoption of the principles of justice and

| liberty for all. The placement of Mars and Ketu on MEP of 12H, in the

| martial sign of Sagittarius indicates its military strength and

| history of fighting wars on foreign lands. The aspect of Rahu on

| Mercury and Saturn shows why every era of financial exuberance

| accompanied with manipulation and fraud, and ended abruptly. Together

| these planets show why its economy is tied with the wars and

| conflicts. 12L is in the 8H indicating continuous natural calamities

| and disasters. Capricorn ascendant and the strength of Saturn shows

| its ability to fight back such disasters and emerge ever more

| powerfully. Many people feel that USA has Scorpio nature. Here the

| Sun-sign is Scorpio.

|

| Transit studies of most devastating dates (12/7/1941, 9/11/2001,

| 10/25/1929, 10/19/1987) show cc/ca of either Jupiter and Sun (FM and

| MMP) or Mars and Ketu (both violent planets). This confirms that both

| Sun and Jupiter are FM's for USA not Jupiter and Saturn as in Cancer

| 21degree chart. Assassinations of its presidents have also taken place

| when Sun was severely afflicted and badly placed in the Capricorn

| rising chart.

|

| I know Thor is emotionally attached to 2/2/1781 chart like Jorge to

| 7/2/1776 chart. But I humbly request all of you to please look at this

| chart and evaluate and compare with other charts before accepting a

| final chart for USA.

|

| Thanks

|

| Raj Chadha

|

March 5, 2007

Hello Raj,

Just a few days ago you suggested the following:

" In my view nobody should ever consider 1781 chart for USA because

the country had already existed and operated since 1776. I and many

others agree with you that the date should be July 2, 1776 and not

July 4... "

Now you propose:

" Nov 15, 1777 in York, Pennsylvania by the continental Congress. "

Please note that I have been looking at different charts for many

years, including studying their natal promise and making predictions.

So far, many charts have been explored and discarded. More recently, I

have enjoyed the support of the scholarly work of John TWB on this

list with regard to the historical basis of the SAMVA USA chart.

As for your claim that I have " emotional attachment " to a given chart,

it is not true. When the intellectual objectivity is retained, the

emotional attachment is held at bay. That said, one must develop a

minimum degree of interest in the subject matter to find the

motivation to do the work. This is not a paid job. We are doing this

in our spare time. So, the process is always objective and accurate

predictions are the sole basis of choosing a chart.

Likewise, unsubstantiated claims for the validity are not enough.

If you are convinced of what you propose, feel free to do the work,

including reading of natal promise as per SA and then make the

predictions, and present it here on SAMVA. We would be pleased to

consider that offering.

Best wishes,

Thor

SAMVA , " rkchadha " <rkctech wrote:

>

> Dear Thor, Jorge, , and others:

>

> There have been a lot of discussions on this board about finding an

> appropriate chart for the country USA. I know that Jorge feels

> strongly about 7/2/1776, 4:49pm, and Thor about 2/2/1781, 5:05 pm. Yet

> I would like all of you to consider seriously another chart, which

> contains all the elements Jorge, Thor and even Ron Grimes feel

> strongly about.

>

> I have studied all the arguments on this board about the choice of

> 2/2/1781 and 3/3/1781, that it was the last vote or the ratification

> of confederation that can only the beginning or birth of USA. But in

> fact it should be the time and date when the confederation was

> established the USA became a country of group of states united under

> one government. That time was the meeting time (11AM to 2PM) when the

> articles of confederation was passed on Nov 15, 1777 in York,

> Pennsylvania by the continental Congress. Considering the historical

> events of the USA I rectify the time of birth to be12:25pm, which is

> almost in the middle of the meeting. Here is the chart I am proposing

> for USA, and I will describe briefly now how it shows not only the

> elements you people feel so strongly about but also how it explains

> the character of USA and some of the important historical events.

>

> Here the rising degree is Capricorn 21 instead of Cancer 21. The

> placement and strength of Moon, Saturn, Venus and Mercury in Libra

> shows the financial prowess of the country, intellectual pursuits and

> scientific achievements, and adoption of the principles of justice and

> liberty for all. The placement of Mars and Ketu on MEP of 12H, in the

> martial sign of Sagittarius indicates its military strength and

> history of fighting wars on foreign lands. The aspect of Rahu on

> Mercury and Saturn shows why every era of financial exuberance

> accompanied with manipulation and fraud, and ended abruptly. Together

> these planets show why its economy is tied with the wars and

> conflicts. 12L is in the 8H indicating continuous natural calamities

> and disasters. Capricorn ascendant and the strength of Saturn shows

> its ability to fight back such disasters and emerge ever more

> powerfully. Many people feel that USA has Scorpio nature. Here the

> Sun-sign is Scorpio.

>

> Transit studies of most devastating dates (12/7/1941, 9/11/2001,

> 10/25/1929, 10/19/1987) show cc/ca of either Jupiter and Sun (FM and

> MMP) or Mars and Ketu (both violent planets). This confirms that both

> Sun and Jupiter are FM's for USA not Jupiter and Saturn as in Cancer

> 21degree chart. Assassinations of its presidents have also taken place

> when Sun was severely afflicted and badly placed in the Capricorn

> rising chart.

>

> I know Thor is emotionally attached to 2/2/1781 chart like Jorge to

> 7/2/1776 chart. But I humbly request all of you to please look at this

> chart and evaluate and compare with other charts before accepting a

> final chart for USA.

>

> Thanks

>

> Raj Chadha

>

March 5, 2007

My dear Raj November 15, 1777 is the date marking the birth of the TEXT of the first U.S.A. constitution, that constitution of March 1, 1781 known as the Aticles of Confederation. The proposed radix for this 1777 date may be valid for constitutional questions where conflicting textual interpretations were in dispute, during the era from November 1777 until July 1788. But that is all. The TEXT matters, of course. But only as a TEXT. This first TEXT died in Congress on July 2, 1788, at a few minutes past 3:00 p.m. Dead as a door nail, as the saying goes in Maryland. We shouldn't confuse it with the government enacted under the first constitution, on March 1, 1781, nor should we confuse it with the date that the UNION formed, which union sponsored that first government, AND ALSO sponsored the second, current, government, the "federal

government" formed on April 30, 1789. The UNION was born on February 2, 1781. This same UNION is still in existence today. This union is older than the federal government, because it gave birth to the federal government [As parent to child. And, indeed, a very naughty child it has become, as judged by President Bush's nefarious efforts to turn over things throughout the Middle East, and alienate loyal American patriots such as this writer.] With my best wishes, John cosmologer <cosmologer wrote: Hello Raj,Just a few days ago you suggested the following:"In my view nobody should ever consider 1781 chart for USA becausethe country had already existed and operated since 1776. I and manyothers agree with you that the date should be July 2, 1776 and notJuly 4..."Now you propose:"Nov 15, 1777 in York, Pennsylvania by the continental Congress."Please note that I have been looking at different charts for manyyears, including studying their natal promise and making predictions.So far, many charts have been explored and discarded. More recently, Ihave enjoyed the support of the scholarly work of John TWB on thislist with regard to the historical basis of the SAMVA USA chart. As for your claim that I have "emotional attachment" to a given chart,it is

not true. When the intellectual objectivity is retained, theemotional attachment is held at bay. That said, one must develop aminimum degree of interest in the subject matter to find themotivation to do the work. This is not a paid job. We are doing thisin our spare time. So, the process is always objective and accuratepredictions are the sole basis of choosing a chart. Likewise, unsubstantiated claims for the validity are not enough.If you are convinced of what you propose, feel free to do the work,including reading of natal promise as per SA and then make thepredictions, and present it here on SAMVA. We would be pleased toconsider that offering. Best wishes,ThorSAMVA , "rkchadha" <rkctech wrote:>> Dear Thor, Jorge, , and others:> > There have been a lot of discussions on this

board about finding an> appropriate chart for the country USA. I know that Jorge feels> strongly about 7/2/1776, 4:49pm, and Thor about 2/2/1781, 5:05 pm. Yet> I would like all of you to consider seriously another chart, which> contains all the elements Jorge, Thor and even Ron Grimes feel> strongly about.> > I have studied all the arguments on this board about the choice of> 2/2/1781 and 3/3/1781, that it was the last vote or the ratification> of confederation that can only the beginning or birth of USA. But in> fact it should be the time and date when the confederation was> established the USA became a country of group of states united under> one government. That time was the meeting time (11AM to 2PM) when the> articles of confederation was passed on Nov 15, 1777 in York,> Pennsylvania by the continental Congress. Considering the historical> events of the USA I

rectify the time of birth to be12:25pm, which is> almost in the middle of the meeting. Here is the chart I am proposing> for USA, and I will describe briefly now how it shows not only the> elements you people feel so strongly about but also how it explains> the character of USA and some of the important historical events.> > > Here the rising degree is Capricorn 21 instead of Cancer 21. The> placement and strength of Moon, Saturn, Venus and Mercury in Libra> shows the financial prowess of the country, intellectual pursuits and> scientific achievements, and adoption of the principles of justice and> liberty for all. The placement of Mars and Ketu on MEP of 12H, in the> martial sign of Sagittarius indicates its military strength and> history of fighting wars on foreign lands. The aspect of Rahu on> Mercury and Saturn shows why every era of financial exuberance>

accompanied with manipulation and fraud, and ended abruptly. Together> these planets show why its economy is tied with the wars and> conflicts. 12L is in the 8H indicating continuous natural calamities> and disasters. Capricorn ascendant and the strength of Saturn shows> its ability to fight back such disasters and emerge ever more> powerfully. Many people feel that USA has Scorpio nature. Here the> Sun-sign is Scorpio.> > Transit studies of most devastating dates (12/7/1941, 9/11/2001,> 10/25/1929, 10/19/1987) show cc/ca of either Jupiter and Sun (FM and> MMP) or Mars and Ketu (both violent planets). This confirms that both> Sun and Jupiter are FM's for USA not Jupiter and Saturn as in Cancer> 21degree chart. Assassinations of its presidents have also taken place> when Sun was severely afflicted and badly placed in the Capricorn> rising chart.> > I know Thor is

emotionally attached to 2/2/1781 chart like Jorge to> 7/2/1776 chart. But I humbly request all of you to please look at this> chart and evaluate and compare with other charts before accepting a> final chart for USA.> > Thanks> > Raj Chadha>

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March 5, 2007

Dear Raj Chadha,

As Mr. John TWB said:

November 15, 1777 is the date marking the birth of the TEXT of the first U.S.A. constitution, that constitution of March 1, 1781 known as the Articles of Confederation.

It will be interesting to see how it is expressed in the US rectified chart.

The operational dasha was MO/MO/RA/KE/JU.

Except for transit Rahu, all the remaining operational planets were well placed in transit, and all of them are connected with the H9/H3 axis.

The natal Moon (Administration), L9 (Law, Constitution) in H3 (writing),

was strong in transit and over MEP7 (cooperative bodies representing the people in toto like Parliament, Senate, Congress, etc.) closely aspecting MEP1 (

general condition of the country as a whole).

Natal Rahu (transformation, manipulation) is placed exactly over MEP9 (Law, Constitution), disposed by the Moon. In transit, Rahu was under the close aspect of transit Mars

(action, significator of H3) and over natal Sun (the Government, significator of H1 and H9) and natal Jupiter (

Law, Constitution, significator of H9). Transit Rahu was aspecting exactly transit Mercury (written documents), L11 (future plans

) in H9 (Law, Constitution), and transit Saturn (democracy), L4 (general and political stability, law and order

) in H11 (future plans).

Natal Ketu is associated with initiatives as it is placed exactly over MEP3 (writing). In transit, Ketu was conjunct with Mars (significator for H3 of writing

), L6 (judicial functioning), aspected by Saturn (democracy), L4 (general and political stability, law and order),

and in mutual aspect with natal Sun and natal Jupiter.

Jupiter (Law, Constitution), L2 (status and relationships within the country) in H8 (

end of existing government), is aspected by Rahu, Ketu and Mars. In transit, Jupiter is well placed in H10 (executive, parliament, administration), disposed by the Sun in H1

(general condition of the country as a whole).

It seems the US rectified chart, which I call the seed moment for everything else in US after independence, explains well the significance of that especial moment on the national level.

My dear friend, I agree that for you and many others it may seem that I have some kind of personal attachment to this chart. Even our dear was the first to mention it in a written form. Believe me or not, that word/feeling was never in my mind/heart. Many list members may remember that I am always the first to eliminate any personally proposed rectified mundane chart whenever I see that another one would explain the national events and that country in a better way. The last substitution was with the chart of my own country. It may also seem that I have been too much time looking to the other countries, and neglecting my own...but this is the nature of our people in Portugal, as the Sun, L12, is exactly conjunct with Mercury, L1, over MEP10, aspecting MEP4. We always think that the others are better than us...and like that we have been trying to improve since June 24, 1128, and I am sure we still have a lot to learn...

Best wishes,

Jorge

On 3/5/07, rkchadha <rkctech wrote:

Dear Thor, Jorge, , and others:There have been a lot of discussions on this board about finding an

appropriate chart for the country USA. I know that Jorge feelsstrongly about 7/2/1776, 4:49pm, and Thor about 2/2/1781, 5:05 pm. YetI would like all of you to consider seriously another chart, whichcontains all the elements Jorge, Thor and even Ron Grimes feel

strongly about.I have studied all the arguments on this board about the choice of2/2/1781 and 3/3/1781, that it was the last vote or the ratificationof confederation that can only the beginning or birth of USA. But in

fact it should be the time and date when the confederation wasestablished the USA became a country of group of states united underone government. That time was the meeting time (11AM to 2PM) when thearticles of confederation was passed on Nov 15, 1777 in York,

Pennsylvania by the continental Congress. Considering the historicalevents of the USA I rectify the time of birth to be12:25pm, which isalmost in the middle of the meeting. Here is the chart I am proposing

for USA, and I will describe briefly now how it shows not only theelements you people feel so strongly about but also how it explainsthe character of USA and some of the important historical events.Here the rising degree is Capricorn 21 instead of Cancer 21. The

placement and strength of Moon, Saturn, Venus and Mercury in Librashows the financial prowess of the country, intellectual pursuits andscientific achievements, and adoption of the principles of justice and

liberty for all. The placement of Mars and Ketu on MEP of 12H, in themartial sign of Sagittarius indicates its military strength andhistory of fighting wars on foreign lands. The aspect of Rahu onMercury and Saturn shows why every era of financial exuberance

accompanied with manipulation and fraud, and ended abruptly. Togetherthese planets show why its economy is tied with the wars andconflicts. 12L is in the 8H indicating continuous natural calamitiesand disasters. Capricorn ascendant and the strength of Saturn shows

its ability to fight back such disasters and emerge ever morepowerfully. Many people feel that USA has Scorpio nature. Here theSun-sign is Scorpio.Transit studies of most devastating dates (12/7/1941, 9/11/2001,

10/25/1929, 10/19/1987) show cc/ca of either Jupiter and Sun (FM andMMP) or Mars and Ketu (both violent planets). This confirms that bothSun and Jupiter are FM's for USA not Jupiter and Saturn as in Cancer

21degree chart. Assassinations of its presidents have also taken placewhen Sun was severely afflicted and badly placed in the Capricornrising chart.I know Thor is emotionally attached to 2/2/1781 chart like Jorge to

7/2/1776 chart. But I humbly request all of you to please look at thischart and evaluate and compare with other charts before accepting afinal chart for USA.ThanksRaj Chadha

March 5, 2007

Hello Thor:

Please disregard my last message in which I favored Jul 2, 1776. At

that time I had not seen 1777 chart.

I am sure you have looked at a lot of charts, just as what I am doing

now. I know you have intellactual objectivity and keen interest. Pleas

e do not be offended by my words " emotional attachment " . What I mean

was that you feel strongly for the Feb 1981 chart. Likewise I now feel

that the 1777 chart has a lot of promise. And yes, I will do my work

and present this board my arguments based on SA only. The honorable

members like you are free to accept or discard my arguments.

Thanks, you are an insipiration.

Raj

SAMVA , " cosmologer " <cosmologer wrote:

>

> Hello Raj,

>

> Just a few days ago you suggested the following:

> " In my view nobody should ever consider 1781 chart for USA because

> the country had already existed and operated since 1776. I and many

> others agree with you that the date should be July 2, 1776 and not

> July 4... "

>

> Now you propose:

> " Nov 15, 1777 in York, Pennsylvania by the continental Congress. "

>

> Please note that I have been looking at different charts for many

> years, including studying their natal promise and making predictions.

> So far, many charts have been explored and discarded. More recently, I

> have enjoyed the support of the scholarly work of John TWB on this

> list with regard to the historical basis of the SAMVA USA chart.

>

> As for your claim that I have " emotional attachment " to a given chart,

> it is not true. When the intellectual objectivity is retained, the

> emotional attachment is held at bay. That said, one must develop a

> minimum degree of interest in the subject matter to find the

> motivation to do the work. This is not a paid job. We are doing this

> in our spare time. So, the process is always objective and accurate

> predictions are the sole basis of choosing a chart.

>

> Likewise, unsubstantiated claims for the validity are not enough.

> If you are convinced of what you propose, feel free to do the work,

> including reading of natal promise as per SA and then make the

> predictions, and present it here on SAMVA. We would be pleased to

> consider that offering.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> SAMVA , " rkchadha " <rkctech@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Thor, Jorge, , and others:

> >

> > There have been a lot of discussions on this board about finding an

> > appropriate chart for the country USA. I know that Jorge feels

> > strongly about 7/2/1776, 4:49pm, and Thor about 2/2/1781, 5:05 pm. Yet

> > I would like all of you to consider seriously another chart, which

> > contains all the elements Jorge, Thor and even Ron Grimes feel

> > strongly about.

> >

> > I have studied all the arguments on this board about the choice of

> > 2/2/1781 and 3/3/1781, that it was the last vote or the ratification

> > of confederation that can only the beginning or birth of USA. But in

> > fact it should be the time and date when the confederation was

> > established the USA became a country of group of states united under

> > one government. That time was the meeting time (11AM to 2PM) when the

> > articles of confederation was passed on Nov 15, 1777 in York,

> > Pennsylvania by the continental Congress. Considering the historical

> > events of the USA I rectify the time of birth to be12:25pm, which is

> > almost in the middle of the meeting. Here is the chart I am proposing

> > for USA, and I will describe briefly now how it shows not only the

> > elements you people feel so strongly about but also how it explains

> > the character of USA and some of the important historical events.

> >

> > Here the rising degree is Capricorn 21 instead of Cancer 21. The

> > placement and strength of Moon, Saturn, Venus and Mercury in Libra

> > shows the financial prowess of the country, intellectual pursuits and

> > scientific achievements, and adoption of the principles of justice and

> > liberty for all. The placement of Mars and Ketu on MEP of 12H, in the

> > martial sign of Sagittarius indicates its military strength and

> > history of fighting wars on foreign lands. The aspect of Rahu on

> > Mercury and Saturn shows why every era of financial exuberance

> > accompanied with manipulation and fraud, and ended abruptly. Together

> > these planets show why its economy is tied with the wars and

> > conflicts. 12L is in the 8H indicating continuous natural calamities

> > and disasters. Capricorn ascendant and the strength of Saturn shows

> > its ability to fight back such disasters and emerge ever more

> > powerfully. Many people feel that USA has Scorpio nature. Here the

> > Sun-sign is Scorpio.

> >

> > Transit studies of most devastating dates (12/7/1941, 9/11/2001,

> > 10/25/1929, 10/19/1987) show cc/ca of either Jupiter and Sun (FM and

> > MMP) or Mars and Ketu (both violent planets). This confirms that both

> > Sun and Jupiter are FM's for USA not Jupiter and Saturn as in Cancer

> > 21degree chart. Assassinations of its presidents have also taken place

> > when Sun was severely afflicted and badly placed in the Capricorn

> > rising chart.

> >

> > I know Thor is emotionally attached to 2/2/1781 chart like Jorge to

> > 7/2/1776 chart. But I humbly request all of you to please look at this

> > chart and evaluate and compare with other charts before accepting a

> > final chart for USA.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Raj Chadha

> >

>

March 5, 2007

Jorge:

It is good to know that you are receptive and flexible. I appreciate

your monumental efforts.

July 2, 1776 may be a seed time. But the seed time may not be taken as

birth time. It is like accepting as union time between a man and a

woman as a birth time of a child. In astrology we work with the time

of the birth of a child.

Raj

SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino wrote:

>

> *Dear Raj Chadha,*

> **

> *As Mr. John TWB said:*

> **

> *November 15, 1777 is the date marking the birth of the TEXT of the

first

> U.S.A. constitution, that constitution of March 1, 1781 known as the

> Articles of Confederation.*

> **

> *It will be interesting to see how it is expressed in the US rectified

> chart. *

> **

> *The operational dasha was MO/MO/RA/KE/JU. *

>

> *Except for transit Rahu, all the remaining operational planets were

well

> placed in transit, and all of them are connected with the H9/H3 axis. *

>

> *The natal Moon* (Administration), *L9 *(Law, Constitution) *in H3*

(writing),

> *was strong in transit and over MEP7* (cooperative bodies

representing the

> people in toto like Parliament, Senate, Congress, etc.) *closely

aspecting

> MEP1* (general condition of the country as a whole).

>

> *Natal Rahu* (transformation, manipulation) *is placed exactly over

MEP9* (Law,

> Constitution), *disposed by the Moon. In transit, Rahu was under the

close

> aspect of transit Mars* (action, significator of H3) *and over natal

Sun* (the

> Government, significator of H1 and H9) *and natal Jupiter* (Law,

> Constitution, significator of H9). *Transit Rahu was aspecting exactly

> transit Mercury *(written documents), *L11 *(future plans) *in H9* (Law,

> Constitution), *and transit Saturn* (democracy), *L4* (general and

political

> stability, law and order) *in H11* (future plans).

>

> *Natal Ketu is associated with initiatives as it is placed exactly

over MEP3

> * (writing). *In transit, Ketu was conjunct with Mars *(significator

for H3

> of writing), * L6* (judicial functioning), *aspected by Saturn*

(democracy),

> *L4 *(general and political stability, law and order), *and in

mutual aspect

> with natal Sun and natal Jupiter.*

>

> *Jupiter *(Law, Constitution), *L2 *(status and relationships within the

> country) *in H8* (end of existing government), *is aspected by Rahu,

Ketu

> and Mars. In transit, Jupiter is well placed in H10* (executive,

parliament,

> administration), *disposed by the Sun in H1* (general condition of the

> country as a whole).

>

> *It seems the US rectified chart, which I call the seed moment for

> everything else in US after independence, explains well the

significance of

> that especial moment on the national level. *

> **

> *My dear friend, I agree that for you and many others it may seem that I

> have some kind of personal attachment to this chart. Even our dear

Professor

> Choudhry was the first to mention it in a written form. Believe me

or not,

> that word/feeling was never in my mind/heart. Many list members may

remember

> that I am always the first to eliminate any personally proposed

rectified

> mundane chart whenever I see that another one would explain the national

> events and that country in a better way. The last substitution was

with the

> chart of my own country. It may also seem that I have been too much time

> looking to the other countries, and neglecting my own...but this is the

> nature of our people in Portugal, as the Sun, L12, is exactly

conjunct with

> Mercury, L1, over MEP10, aspecting MEP4. We always think that the

others are

> better than us...and like that we have been trying to improve since

June 24,

> 1128, and I am sure we still have a lot to learn...*

> **

> *Best wishes,*

> **

> *Jorge

> *

>

> On 3/5/07, rkchadha <rkctech wrote: