Re:FMs of Divl charts

[Guest guest]

Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,

 

The subject being discussed in not as per SA and just creating confusion. It

would be better if this and other non-SA concepts, if necessary, are

discussed off list. As is evident from the name of the group it is for

discussing Systems' Approach and if you want to discuss non SA concepts

better open a new group or change the name of the list (group). I am sorry I

have to say so. Or if you want to continue it here and like this, then I may

leave the group.

 

Best wishes,

 

 

 

-

" SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN " <sadasivan_g

<SAMVA >

Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PM

Re: Re: US rectified chart, Prediction Fulfilled

 

 

| Dear Jorge,

|

| >From the example , I can understand that if

|

| 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if in

| D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM .In

| other words Jupiter is a FM as far as Marriage

| matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter

| transits the 7th house or the 7th lord Saturn

| natally , we can expect friction in married life

| ? AM I correct?

|

| 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa Jup

| is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or 5th

| house then also 5th house sign suffers.

|

| Kindly revert.

|

| Sadasivan

|

| --- Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino wrote:

|

| > Dear Sally,

| >

| > The examples given were just regarding US rectifed

| > chart, where Jupiter is

| > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events under

| > analysis were mainly

| > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of Jupiter as

| > FMP was played in

| > almost all important dates strongly connected with

| > war.

| >

| > In the next example, this lady lost her father on

| > May 16, 1990, and her

| > mother on September 7, 2000.

| >

| >

| > Lady lost parents;

| > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST

| > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME

| >

| > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

| > ================================================

| > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa

| > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke

| > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke

| > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra

| > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa

| > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa

| > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo

| > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve

| > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo

| > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me

| >

| > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982

| > beats

| > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM

| > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi

| > Rashi Chart

| >

| *******************************************************

| > ** 9 * * 7

| > **

| > *10* * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * SAR13:46* * *

| > *

| > * * * JUR07:15 * *

| > *

| > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA

| > 19:43*

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > ** * *

| > **

| > *11 * 5 MO 06:46

| > *

| > ** * *

| > **

| > *12* * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > *ME 09:17 * * * *

| > *

| > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > ** 1 * * 3

| > **

| >

| *******************************************************

| >

| > Dwadasamsha

| >

| *******************************************************

| > ** 3 * * 1

| > **

| > *4 * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * ME * RA *

| > *

| > * * * AS * *

| > *

| > * * 2 SU * 12

| > *

| > * * * SAR * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > ** * *

| > **

| > *5 * 11

| > *

| > ** * *

| > **

| > *6 * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > *VE * 8 * 10 JUR

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * MO * * *

| > *

| > * * MA * * *

| > *

| > * * KE * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > ** 7 * * 9

| > **

| >

| *******************************************************

| > The D-chart related with parents and losses is D-12,

| > where Jupiter is the

| > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both dates,

| > we can see a close

| > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the

| > significators.

| >

| > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit

| > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house

| > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting MEP4 (MT

| > house of Saturn), and

| > natal retrograde Saturn.

| >

| > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA,

| > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,

| > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3

| > (losses to mother) and MEP11,

| > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly aspecting

| > transit Saturn, L4

| > (mother).

| >

| > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the

| > rectified lagna of US chart,

| > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.

| >

| > Best wishes,

| >

| > Jorge

| >

| >

| > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234

| > wrote:

| > >

| > > I have been looking to many charts and transits

| > in the last two and a

| > > > half years as you know. Many times I have seen

| > the FMPs in the respective

| > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or other

| > significators for some

| > > > negative events concerning those houses.

| > >

| > >

| > >

| > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you do

| > see the FMs of D-charts

| > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to ask,

| > is it regarding the D

| > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just

| > simply that the planet acts

| >

| === message truncated ===

|

|

|

|

|

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|

[Guest guest]

My dear Professor,

 

I do not see what kind of confusion may happen with my last answer to Mr. Sadasivan:

 

Dear Sadasivan,

 

In my opinion, your understanding is correct.

 

First priority goes always to the role played by the FMPs in D1, but for any area of life a complete analysis requires that we look carefully to the corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of both charts.

 

 

But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.

 

Best wishes,

Jorge

 

On 2/14/07, siha <siha

> wrote:

Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,The subject being discussed in not as per SA and just creating confusion. It

would be better if this and other non-SA concepts, if necessary, arediscussed off list. As is evident from the name of the group it is fordiscussing Systems' Approach and if you want to discuss non SA concepts

better open a new group or change the name of the list (group). I am sorry Ihave to say so. Or if you want to continue it here and like this, then I mayleave the group.Best wishes,

- " SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN " <sadasivan_g<SAMVA

>Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PMRe: Re: US rectified chart, Prediction Fulfilled| Dear Jorge,|| >From the example , I can understand that if|

| 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if in| D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM .In| other words Jupiter is a FM as far as Marriage| matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter

| transits the 7th house or the 7th lord Saturn| natally , we can expect friction in married life| ? AM I correct?|| 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa Jup| is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or 5th

| house then also 5th house sign suffers.|| Kindly revert.|| Sadasivan|| --- Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino wrote:|| > Dear Sally,

| >| > The examples given were just regarding US rectifed| > chart, where Jupiter is| > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events under| > analysis were mainly| > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of Jupiter as

| > FMP was played in| > almost all important dates strongly connected with| > war.| >| > In the next example, this lady lost her father on| > May 16, 1990, and her| > mother on September 7, 2000.

| >| >| > Lady lost parents;| > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST| > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME| >| > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

| > ================================================| > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa| > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke| > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke

| > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra| > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa| > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa| > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo

| > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve| > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo| > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me| >| > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982

| > beats| > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM| > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi| > Rashi Chart| >| *******************************************************| > ** 9 * * 7

| > **| > *10* * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *

| > *| > * SAR13:46* * *| > *| > * * * JUR07:15 * *| > *| > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA| > 19:43*

| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *

| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > ** * *| > **| > *11 * 5 MO 06:46| > *| > ** * *

| > **| > *12* * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *

| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > *ME 09:17 * * * *| > *| > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4| > *

| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *| > *| > * * * * *

| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > ** 1 * * 3| > **| >| *******************************************************| >

| > Dwadasamsha| >| *******************************************************| > ** 3 * * 1| > **| > *4 * * * *| > *

| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * ME * RA *| > *| > * * * AS * *

| > *| > * * 2 SU * 12| > *| > * * * SAR * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *

| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *

| > ** * *| > **| > *5 * 11| > *| > ** * *| > **| > *6 * * * *

| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *

| > * * * * *| > *| > *VE * 8 * 10 JUR| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * MO * * *

| > *| > * * MA * * *| > *| > * * KE * * *| > *| > * * * * *

| > *| > ** 7 * * 9| > **| >| *******************************************************| > The D-chart related with parents and losses is D-12,| > where Jupiter is the

| > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both dates,| > we can see a close| > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the| > significators.| >| > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit

| > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house| > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting MEP4 (MT| > house of Saturn), and| > natal retrograde Saturn.| >| > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA,

| > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,| > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3| > (losses to mother) and MEP11,| > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly aspecting| > transit Saturn, L4

| > (mother).| >| > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the| > rectified lagna of US chart,| > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.| >| > Best wishes,

| >| > Jorge| >| >| > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234| > wrote:| > >| > > I have been looking to many charts and transits

| > in the last two and a| > > > half years as you know. Many times I have seen| > the FMPs in the respective| > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or other| > significators for some

| > > > negative events concerning those houses.| > >| > >| > >| > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you do| > see the FMs of D-charts| > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to ask,

| > is it regarding the D| > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just| > simply that the planet acts| >| === message truncated ===|||||

| No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go| with Mail for Mobile. Get started.| http://mobile./mail||||

[Guest guest]

Dear Professor,

 

No one is deviating and will deviate from SA . SA

has cleared most of the enigmas of astrology.

The discussions are only to explore further

findings especially in the interpretation of

CONTROVERSIAL DIVISIONAL CHARTS . If you are not

liking it, the same will be dropped . In your

book itself you have clearly mentioned that

there is a CONTROVERSY in interpretation of

Divisional Charts.

 

SIR, Many astrologers are interpreting Divisional

charts in many ways. Hence the debate .

 

Thanks

SG

--- siha wrote:

 

>

> Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,

>

> The subject being discussed in not as per SA and

> just creating confusion. It

> would be better if this and other non-SA concepts,

> if necessary, are

> discussed off list. As is evident from the name of

> the group it is for

> discussing Systems' Approach and if you want to

> discuss non SA concepts

> better open a new group or change the name of the

> list (group). I am sorry I

> have to say so. Or if you want to continue it here

> and like this, then I may

> leave the group.

>

> Best wishes,

>

>

>

> -

> " SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN "

> <sadasivan_g

> <SAMVA >

> Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PM

> Re: Re: US rectified chart,

> Prediction Fulfilled

>

>

> | Dear Jorge,

> |

> | >From the example , I can understand that

> if

> |

> | 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if

> in

> | D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM

> .In

> | other words Jupiter is a FM as far as

> Marriage

> | matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter

> | transits the 7th house or the 7th lord

> Saturn

> | natally , we can expect friction in married

> life

> | ? AM I correct?

> |

> | 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa

> Jup

> | is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or

> 5th

> | house then also 5th house sign suffers.

> |

> | Kindly revert.

> |

> | Sadasivan

> |

> | --- Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino

> wrote:

> |

> | > Dear Sally,

> | >

> | > The examples given were just regarding US

> rectifed

> | > chart, where Jupiter is

> | > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events

> under

> | > analysis were mainly

> | > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of

> Jupiter as

> | > FMP was played in

> | > almost all important dates strongly connected

> with

> | > war.

> | >

> | > In the next example, this lady lost her father

> on

> | > May 16, 1990, and her

> | > mother on September 7, 2000.

> | >

> | >

> | > Lady lost parents;

> | > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST

> | > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME

> | >

> | > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

> | > ================================================

> | > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa

> | > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke

> | > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke

> | > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra

> | > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa

> | > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa

> | > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo

> | > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve

> | > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo

> | > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me

> | >

> | > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982

> | > beats

> | > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM

> | > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi

> | > Rashi Chart

> | >

> |

>

*******************************************************

> | > ** 9 * * 7

> | > **

> | > *10* * *

> *

> | > *

> | > * * * *

> *

> | > *

> | > * * * * *

> | > *

> | > * SAR13:46* * *

> | > *

> | > * * * JUR07:15 * *

> | > *

> | > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA

> | > 19:43*

> | > * * * * *

> | > *

> | > * * * * *

> | > *

> | > * * * * *

> | > *

> | > * * * *

> *

> | > *

> | > * * * *

> *

> | > *

> | > ** * *

> | > **

> | > *11 * 5 MO 06:46

> | > *

> | > ** * *

> | > **

> | > *12* * *

> *

> | > *

> | > * * * *

> *

> | > *

> | > * * * * *

> | > *

> | > * * * * *

> | > *

> | > *ME 09:17 * * * *

> | > *

> | > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4

> | > *

> | > * * * * *

> | > *

> | > * * * * *

> | > *

> | > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *

> | > *

> | > * * * *

> *

> | > *

> | > * * * *

> *

> | > *

> | > ** 1 * * 3

> | > **

> | >

> |

>

*******************************************************

> | >

> | > Dwadasamsha

> | >

> |

>

*******************************************************

> | > ** 3 * * 1

> | > **

> | > *4 * * *

> *

> | > *

> | > * * * *

> *

> | > *

> | > * * * * *

> | > *

> | > * ME * RA *

> | > *

> | > * * * AS * *

> | > *

> | > * * 2 SU * 12

> | > *

> | > * * * SAR * *

> | > *

> | > * * * * *

> | > *

> | > * * * * *

> | > *

> | > * * * *

> *

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]



 

Hello dear Mr. Jorge, I am not referring to your last answer to SG. But bringing in one after the other non-SA concepts in discussions on a list set up for discussions on SA is not appropriate.

 

I do not want interpolations and inclusions of any meanings ascribed to SA concepts which are not in line with SA principles. I do not impose myself on others. Those who want to follow other than SA principles they are welcome to do so off list or on other list.

 

Best wishes,

 

-

Jorge Angelino

SAMVA

Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:24 PM

Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts

 

My dear Professor,

 

I do not see what kind of confusion may happen with my last answer to Mr. Sadasivan:

 

Dear Sadasivan,

 

In my opinion, your understanding is correct.

 

First priority goes always to the role played by the FMPs in D1, but for any area of life a complete analysis requires that we look carefully to the corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of both charts.

 

But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.

 

Best wishes,

Jorge

 

On 2/14/07, siha <siha > wrote: Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,The subject being discussed in not as per SA and just creating confusion. It would be better if this and other non-SA concepts, if necessary, arediscussed off list. As is evident from the name of the group it is fordiscussing Systems' Approach and if you want to discuss non SA concepts better open a new group or change the name of the list (group). I am sorry Ihave to say so. Or if you want to continue it here and like this, then I mayleave the group.Best wishes,-"SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN" <sadasivan_g<SAMVA >Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PMRe: Re: US rectified chart, Prediction Fulfilled| Dear Jorge,|| >From the example , I can understand that if|| 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if in| D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM .In| other words Jupiter is a FM as far as Marriage| matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter | transits the 7th house or the 7th lord Saturn| natally , we can expect friction in married life| ? AM I correct?|| 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa Jup| is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or 5th | house then also 5th house sign suffers.|| Kindly revert.|| Sadasivan|| --- Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino wrote:|| > Dear Sally, | >| > The examples given were just regarding US rectifed| > chart, where Jupiter is| > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events under| > analysis were mainly| > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of Jupiter as | > FMP was played in| > almost all important dates strongly connected with| > war.| >| > In the next example, this lady lost her father on| > May 16, 1990, and her| > mother on September 7, 2000. | >| >| > Lady lost parents;| > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST| > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME| >| > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord | > ================================================| > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa| > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke| > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke | > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra| > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa| > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa| > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo | > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve| > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo| > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me| >| > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982 | > beats| > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM| > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi| > Rashi Chart| >| *******************************************************| > ** 9 * * 7 | > **| > *10* * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * SAR13:46* * *| > *| > * * * JUR07:15 * *| > *| > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA| > 19:43* | > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > ** * *| > **| > *11 * 5 MO 06:46| > *| > ** * * | > **| > *12* * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > *ME 09:17 * * * *| > *| > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > ** 1 * * 3| > **| >| *******************************************************| > | > Dwadasamsha| >| *******************************************************| > ** 3 * * 1| > **| > *4 * * * *| > * | > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * ME * RA *| > *| > * * * AS * * | > *| > * * 2 SU * 12| > *| > * * * SAR * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > ** * *| > **| > *5 * 11| > *| > ** * *| > **| > *6 * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > * | > * * * * *| > *| > *VE * 8 * 10 JUR| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * MO * * * | > *| > * * MA * * *| > *| > * * KE * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > ** 7 * * 9| > **| >| *******************************************************| > The D-chart related with parents and losses is D-12,| > where Jupiter is the | > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both dates,| > we can see a close| > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the| > significators.| >| > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit | > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house| > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting MEP4 (MT| > house of Saturn), and| > natal retrograde Saturn.| >| > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA, | > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,| > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3| > (losses to mother) and MEP11,| > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly aspecting| > transit Saturn, L4 | > (mother).| >| > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the| > rectified lagna of US chart,| > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.| >| > Best wishes,| >| > Jorge| >| >| > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234| > wrote:| > >| > > I have been looking to many charts and transits | > in the last two and a| > > > half years as you know. Many times I have seen| > the FMPs in the respective| > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or other| > significators for some | > > > negative events concerning those houses.| > >| > >| > >| > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you do| > see the FMs of D-charts| > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to ask, | > is it regarding the D| > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just| > simply that the planet acts| >| === message truncated ===||||| | No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go| with Mail for Mobile. Get started.| http://mobile./mail||||

[Guest guest]

My dear Professor,

 

as you know, all this discussion started with the evaluation of the SAMVA US chart and the US rectified chart. I have to explain to the group why my 300% beliefs go the 1776 US chart and that implies the explanation of my use of FMPs in D-charts.

 

 

As you have said before, SAMVA and SATVA are two different entities. This is already the second time that you loose your temper with me without any reason. If you feel that you should leave the list, it is up to you. I would prefer that you stay with us, but I don't want to disturb your wish.

 

 

Best wishes,

 

Jorge

On 2/14/07, siha <siha

> wrote:



 

Hello dear Mr. Jorge, I am not referring to your last answer to SG. But bringing in one after the other non-SA concepts in discussions on a list set up for discussions on SA is not appropriate.

 

I do not want interpolations and inclusions of any meanings ascribed to SA concepts which are not in line with SA principles. I do not impose myself on others. Those who want to follow other than SA principles they are welcome to do so off list or on other list.

 

 

Best wishes,

 

-

Jorge Angelino

 

SAMVA

 

Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:24 PM

Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts

 

My dear Professor,

 

I do not see what kind of confusion may happen with my last answer to Mr. Sadasivan:

 

Dear Sadasivan,

 

In my opinion, your understanding is correct.

 

First priority goes always to the role played by the FMPs in D1, but for any area of life a complete analysis requires that we look carefully to the corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of both charts.

 

But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.

 

Best wishes,

Jorge

 

On 2/14/07, siha

<siha > wrote: Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,The subject being discussed in not as per SA and just creating confusion. It would be better if this and other non-SA concepts, if necessary, arediscussed off list. As is evident from the name of the group it is fordiscussing Systems' Approach and if you want to discuss non SA concepts better open a new group or change the name of the list (group). I am sorry Ihave to say so. Or if you want to continue it here and like this, then I mayleave the group.Best wishes,

- " SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN " <sadasivan_g

<SAMVA >Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PMRe: Re: US rectified chart, Prediction Fulfilled

| Dear Jorge,|| >From the example , I can understand that if|| 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if in| D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM .In| other words Jupiter is a FM as far as Marriage

| matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter | transits the 7th house or the 7th lord Saturn| natally , we can expect friction in married life| ? AM I correct?|| 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa Jup

| is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or 5th | house then also 5th house sign suffers.|| Kindly revert.|| Sadasivan|| --- Jorge Angelino <

jorge.angelino wrote:|| > Dear Sally, | >| > The examples given were just regarding US rectifed| > chart, where Jupiter is| > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events under

| > analysis were mainly| > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of Jupiter as | > FMP was played in| > almost all important dates strongly connected with| > war.| >| > In the next example, this lady lost her father on

| > May 16, 1990, and her| > mother on September 7, 2000. | >| >| > Lady lost parents;| > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST| > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME

| >| > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord | > ================================================| > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa| > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke

| > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke | > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra| > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa| > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa

| > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo | > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve| > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo| > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me

| >| > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982 | > beats| > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM| > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi| > Rashi Chart| >| *******************************************************

| > ** 9 * * 7 | > **| > *10* * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * SAR13:46* * *| > *| > * * * JUR07:15 * *| > *| > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA| > 19:43* | > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > ** * *| > **| > *11 * 5 MO 06:46| > *| > ** * * | > **| > *12* * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > *ME 09:17 * * * *| > *| > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4| > *

| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > ** 1 * * 3| > **| >| *******************************************************| > | > Dwadasamsha| >| *******************************************************| > ** 3 * * 1| > **| > *4 * * * *| > * | > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * ME * RA *| > *| > * * * AS * * | > *| > * * 2 SU * 12| > *| > * * * SAR * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *

| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *

| > ** * *| > **| > *5 * 11| > *| > ** * *| > **| > *6 * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > * | > * * * * *| > *| > *VE * 8 * 10 JUR| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * MO * * * | > *| > * * MA * * *| > *| > * * KE * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > ** 7 * * 9| > **| >| *******************************************************| > The D-chart related with parents and losses is D-12,| > where Jupiter is the | > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both dates,| > we can see a close| > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the| > significators.| >| > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit | > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house| > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting MEP4 (MT| > house of Saturn), and| > natal retrograde Saturn.| >| > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA, | > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,| > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3| > (losses to mother) and MEP11,| > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly aspecting| > transit Saturn, L4 | > (mother).| >| > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the| > rectified lagna of US chart,| > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.| >| > Best wishes,

| >| > Jorge| >| >| > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234| > wrote:

| > >| > > I have been looking to many charts and transits | > in the last two and a| > > > half years as you know. Many times I have seen| > the FMPs in the respective| > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or other

| > significators for some | > > > negative events concerning those houses.| > >| > >| > >| > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you do| > see the FMs of D-charts

| > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to ask, | > is it regarding the D| > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just| > simply that the planet acts| >| === message truncated ===

||||| | No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go| with Mail for Mobile. Get started.|

http://mobile./mail||||

[Guest guest]



Hello my dear Jorge, I am sorry that you feel that I loose temper.

I am leaving the group as I do not want that the confusions which I wanted to remove are discussed and encouraged on the list in which I participate.

 

Best wishes,

 

-

Jorge Angelino

SAMVA

Wednesday, February 14, 2007 10:10 PM

Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts

 

My dear Professor,

 

as you know, all this discussion started with the evaluation of the SAMVA US chart and the US rectified chart. I have to explain to the group why my 300% beliefs go the 1776 US chart and that implies the explanation of my use of FMPs in D-charts.

 

As you have said before, SAMVA and SATVA are two different entities. This is already the second time that you loose your temper with me without any reason. If you feel that you should leave the list, it is up to you. I would prefer that you stay with us, but I don't want to disturb your wish.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jorge

On 2/14/07, siha <siha > wrote: 

 

Hello dear Mr. Jorge, I am not referring to your last answer to SG. But bringing in one after the other non-SA concepts in discussions on a list set up for discussions on SA is not appropriate.

 

I do not want interpolations and inclusions of any meanings ascribed to SA concepts which are not in line with SA principles. I do not impose myself on others. Those who want to follow other than SA principles they are welcome to do so off list or on other list.

 

Best wishes,

 

-

Jorge Angelino

SAMVA

 

Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:24 PM

Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts

 

My dear Professor,

 

I do not see what kind of confusion may happen with my last answer to Mr. Sadasivan:

 

Dear Sadasivan,

 

In my opinion, your understanding is correct.

 

First priority goes always to the role played by the FMPs in D1, but for any area of life a complete analysis requires that we look carefully to the corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of both charts.

 

But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.

 

Best wishes,

Jorge

 

On 2/14/07, siha <siha > wrote: Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,The subject being discussed in not as per SA and just creating confusion. It would be better if this and other non-SA concepts, if necessary, arediscussed off list. As is evident from the name of the group it is fordiscussing Systems' Approach and if you want to discuss non SA concepts better open a new group or change the name of the list (group). I am sorry Ihave to say so. Or if you want to continue it here and like this, then I mayleave the group.Best wishes,-"SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN" <sadasivan_g <SAMVA >Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PMRe: Re: US rectified chart, Prediction Fulfilled | Dear Jorge,|| >From the example , I can understand that if|| 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if in| D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM .In| other words Jupiter is a FM as far as Marriage | matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter | transits the 7th house or the 7th lord Saturn| natally , we can expect friction in married life| ? AM I correct?|| 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa Jup | is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or 5th | house then also 5th house sign suffers.|| Kindly revert.|| Sadasivan|| --- Jorge Angelino < jorge.angelino wrote:|| > Dear Sally, | >| > The examples given were just regarding US rectifed| > chart, where Jupiter is| > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events under | > analysis were mainly| > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of Jupiter as | > FMP was played in| > almost all important dates strongly connected with| > war.| >| > In the next example, this lady lost her father on | > May 16, 1990, and her| > mother on September 7, 2000. | >| >| > Lady lost parents;| > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST| > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME | >| > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord | > ================================================| > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa| > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke | > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke | > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra| > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa| > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa | > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo | > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve| > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo| > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me | >| > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982 | > beats| > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM| > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi| > Rashi Chart| >| ******************************************************* | > ** 9 * * 7 | > **| > *10* * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * SAR13:46* * *| > *| > * * * JUR07:15 * *| > *| > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA| > 19:43* | > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > ** * *| > **| > *11 * 5 MO 06:46| > *| > ** * * | > **| > *12* * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > *ME 09:17 * * * *| > *| > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > ** 1 * * 3| > **| >| *******************************************************| > | > Dwadasamsha| >| *******************************************************| > ** 3 * * 1| > **| > *4 * * * *| > * | > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * ME * RA *| > *| > * * * AS * * | > *| > * * 2 SU * 12| > *| > * * * SAR * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > ** * *| > **| > *5 * 11| > *| > ** * *| > **| > *6 * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > * | > * * * * *| > *| > *VE * 8 * 10 JUR| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * MO * * * | > *| > * * MA * * *| > *| > * * KE * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > ** 7 * * 9| > **| >| *******************************************************| > The D-chart related with parents and losses is D-12,| > where Jupiter is the | > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both dates,| > we can see a close| > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the| > significators.| >| > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit | > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house| > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting MEP4 (MT| > house of Saturn), and| > natal retrograde Saturn.| >| > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA, | > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,| > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3| > (losses to mother) and MEP11,| > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly aspecting| > transit Saturn, L4 | > (mother).| >| > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the| > rectified lagna of US chart,| > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.| >| > Best wishes,| >| > Jorge| >| >| > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234| > wrote: | > >| > > I have been looking to many charts and transits | > in the last two and a| > > > half years as you know. Many times I have seen| > the FMPs in the respective| > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or other | > significators for some | > > > negative events concerning those houses.| > >| > >| > >| > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you do| > see the FMs of D-charts | > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to ask, | > is it regarding the D| > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just| > simply that the planet acts| >| === message truncated === ||||| | No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go| with Mail for Mobile. Get started.| http://mobile./mail||||

[Guest guest]

Dear Professor,

 

I'll follow you in this.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Vyas Munidas

 

 

-

<siha

<SAMVA >

Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:57 AM

Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts

 

 

Hello my dear Jorge,

 

I am sorry that you feel that I loose temper.

I am leaving the group as I do not want that the confusions which I wanted

to remove are discussed and encouraged on the list in which I participate.

 

Best wishes,

 

 

 

 

-

Jorge Angelino

SAMVA

Wednesday, February 14, 2007 10:10 PM

Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts

 

 

My dear Professor,

 

as you know, all this discussion started with the evaluation of the SAMVA

US chart and the US rectified chart. I have to explain to the group why my

300% beliefs go the 1776 US chart and that implies the explanation of my use

of FMPs in D-charts.

 

As you have said before, SAMVA and SATVA are two different entities. This

is already the second time that you loose your temper with me without any

reason. If you feel that you should leave the list, it is up to you. I would

prefer that you stay with us, but I don't want to disturb your wish.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jorge

 

 

On 2/14/07, siha <siha >

wrote:



 

Hello dear Mr. Jorge,

 

I am not referring to your last answer to SG. But bringing in one after

the other non-SA concepts in discussions on a list set up for discussions on

SA is not appropriate.

 

I do not want interpolations and inclusions of any meanings ascribed to

SA concepts which are not in line with SA principles. I do not impose myself

on others. Those who want to follow other than SA principles they are

welcome to do so off list or on other list.

 

Best wishes,

 

 

-

Jorge Angelino

SAMVA

Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:24 PM

Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts

 

 

My dear Professor,

 

I do not see what kind of confusion may happen with my last answer to

Mr. Sadasivan:

 

Dear Sadasivan,

 

In my opinion, your understanding is correct.

 

First priority goes always to the role played by the FMPs in D1, but

for any area of life a complete analysis requires that we look carefully to

the corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of both charts.

 

But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.

 

Best wishes,

Jorge

 

 

 

 

On 2/14/07, siha <siha >

wrote:

 

Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,

 

The subject being discussed in not as per SA and just creating

confusion. It

would be better if this and other non-SA concepts, if necessary, are

discussed off list. As is evident from the name of the group it is

for

discussing Systems' Approach and if you want to discuss non SA

concepts

better open a new group or change the name of the list (group). I am

sorry I

have to say so. Or if you want to continue it here and like this,

then I may

leave the group.

 

Best wishes,

 

 

-

" SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN " <sadasivan_g

<SAMVA >

Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PM

Re: Re: US rectified chart, Prediction Fulfilled

 

 

| Dear Jorge,

|

| >From the example , I can understand that if

|

| 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if in

| D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM .In

| other words Jupiter is a FM as far as Marriage

| matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter

| transits the 7th house or the 7th lord Saturn

| natally , we can expect friction in married life

| ? AM I correct?

|

| 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa Jup

| is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or 5th

| house then also 5th house sign suffers.

|

| Kindly revert.

|

| Sadasivan

|

| --- Jorge Angelino < jorge.angelino wrote:

|

| > Dear Sally,

| >

| > The examples given were just regarding US rectifed

| > chart, where Jupiter is

| > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events under

| > analysis were mainly

| > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of Jupiter as

| > FMP was played in

| > almost all important dates strongly connected with

| > war.

| >

| > In the next example, this lady lost her father on

| > May 16, 1990, and her

| > mother on September 7, 2000.

| >

| >

| > Lady lost parents;

| > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST

| > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME

| >

| > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

| > ================================================

| > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa

| > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke

| > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke

| > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra

| > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa

| > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa

| > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo

| > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve

| > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo

| > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me

| >

| > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982

| > beats

| > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM

| > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi

| > Rashi Chart

| >

| *******************************************************

| > ** 9 * * 7

| > **

| > *10* * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * SAR13:46* * *

| > *

| > * * * JUR07:15 * *

| > *

| > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA

| > 19:43*

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > ** * *

| > **

| > *11 * 5 MO 06:46

| > *

| > ** * *

| > **

| > *12* * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > *ME 09:17 * * * *

| > *

| > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > ** 1 * * 3

| > **

| >

| *******************************************************

| >

| > Dwadasamsha

| >

| *******************************************************

| > ** 3 * * 1

| > **

| > *4 * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * ME * RA *

| > *

| > * * * AS * *

| > *

| > * * 2 SU * 12

| > *

| > * * * SAR * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > ** * *

| > **

| > *5 * 11

| > *

| > ** * *

| > **

| > *6 * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > *VE * 8 * 10 JUR

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > * MO * * *

| > *

| > * * MA * * *

| > *

| > * * KE * * *

| > *

| > * * * * *

| > *

| > ** 7 * * 9

| > **

| >

| *******************************************************

| > The D-chart related with parents and losses is D-12,

| > where Jupiter is the

| > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both dates,

| > we can see a close

| > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the

| > significators.

| >

| > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit

| > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house

| > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting MEP4 (MT

| > house of Saturn), and

| > natal retrograde Saturn.

| >

| > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA,

| > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,

| > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3

| > (losses to mother) and MEP11,

| > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly aspecting

| > transit Saturn, L4

| > (mother).

| >

| > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the

| > rectified lagna of US chart,

| > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.

| >

| > Best wishes,

| >

| > Jorge

| >

| >

| > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234

| > wrote:

| > >

| > > I have been looking to many charts and transits

| > in the last two and a

| > > > half years as you know. Many times I have seen

| > the FMPs in the respective

| > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or other

| > significators for some

| > > > negative events concerning those houses.

| > >

| > >

| > >

| > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you do

| > see the FMs of D-charts

| > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to ask,

| > is it regarding the D

| > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just

| > simply that the planet acts

| >

| === message truncated ===

|

|

|

|

|

______________________________\

____

| No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

| with Mail for Mobile. Get started.

| http://mobile./mail

|

|

|

|

[Guest guest]

OK my dear friend and Professor.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jorge

On 2/14/07, siha <siha

> wrote:



Hello my dear Jorge, I am sorry that you feel that I loose temper.

I am leaving the group as I do not want that the confusions which I wanted to remove are discussed and encouraged on the list in which I participate.

 

Best wishes,

 

-

Jorge Angelino

 

SAMVA

 

Wednesday, February 14, 2007 10:10 PM

Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts

 

My dear Professor,

 

as you know, all this discussion started with the evaluation of the SAMVA US chart and the US rectified chart. I have to explain to the group why my 300% beliefs go the 1776 US chart and that implies the explanation of my use of FMPs in D-charts.

 

As you have said before, SAMVA and SATVA are two different entities. This is already the second time that you loose your temper with me without any reason. If you feel that you should leave the list, it is up to you. I would prefer that you stay with us, but I don't want to disturb your wish.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jorge

On 2/14/07, siha

<siha > wrote: 

 

Hello dear Mr. Jorge, I am not referring to your last answer to SG. But bringing in one after the other non-SA concepts in discussions on a list set up for discussions on SA is not appropriate.

 

I do not want interpolations and inclusions of any meanings ascribed to SA concepts which are not in line with SA principles. I do not impose myself on others. Those who want to follow other than SA principles they are welcome to do so off list or on other list.

 

Best wishes,

 

-

Jorge Angelino

SAMVA

 

Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:24 PM

Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts

 

My dear Professor,

 

I do not see what kind of confusion may happen with my last answer to Mr. Sadasivan:

 

Dear Sadasivan,

 

In my opinion, your understanding is correct.

 

First priority goes always to the role played by the FMPs in D1, but for any area of life a complete analysis requires that we look carefully to the corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of both charts.

 

But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.

 

Best wishes,

Jorge

 

On 2/14/07, siha

<siha > wrote: Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,The subject being discussed in not as per SA and just creating confusion. It would be better if this and other non-SA concepts, if necessary, arediscussed off list. As is evident from the name of the group it is fordiscussing Systems' Approach and if you want to discuss non SA concepts better open a new group or change the name of the list (group). I am sorry Ihave to say so. Or if you want to continue it here and like this, then I mayleave the group.Best wishes,

- " SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN " <sadasivan_g <SAMVA >Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PMRe: Re: US rectified chart, Prediction Fulfilled | Dear Jorge,|| >From the example , I can understand that if|| 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if in| D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM .In| other words Jupiter is a FM as far as Marriage | matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter | transits the 7th house or the 7th lord Saturn| natally , we can expect friction in married life| ? AM I correct?|| 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa Jup | is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or 5th | house then also 5th house sign suffers.|| Kindly revert.|| Sadasivan|| --- Jorge Angelino <

jorge.angelino wrote:|| > Dear Sally, | >| > The examples given were just regarding US rectifed| > chart, where Jupiter is| > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events under | > analysis were mainly| > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of Jupiter as | > FMP was played in| > almost all important dates strongly connected with| > war.| >| > In the next example, this lady lost her father on | > May 16, 1990, and her| > mother on September 7, 2000. | >| >| > Lady lost parents;| > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST| > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME | >| > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord | > ================================================| > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa| > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke | > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke | > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra| > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa| > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa | > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo | > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve| > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo| > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me | >| > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982 | > beats| > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM| > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi| > Rashi Chart| >| ******************************************************* | > ** 9 * * 7 | > **| > *10* * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * SAR13:46* * *| > *| > * * * JUR07:15 * *| > *| > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA| > 19:43* | > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > ** * *| > **| > *11 * 5 MO 06:46| > *| > ** * * | > **| > *12* * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > *ME 09:17 * * * *| > *| > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4| > *

| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > ** 1 * * 3| > **| >| *******************************************************| > | > Dwadasamsha| >| *******************************************************| > ** 3 * * 1| > **| > *4 * * * *| > * | > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * ME * RA *| > *| > * * * AS * * | > *| > * * 2 SU * 12| > *| > * * * SAR * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *

| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *

| > ** * *| > **| > *5 * 11| > *| > ** * *| > **| > *6 * * * * | > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * * * * *| > * | > * * * * *| > *| > *VE * 8 * 10 JUR| > *| > * * * * *| > *| > * MO * * * | > *| > * * MA * * *| > *| > * * KE * * *| > *| > * * * * * | > *| > ** 7 * * 9| > **| >| *******************************************************| > The D-chart related with parents and losses is D-12,| > where Jupiter is the | > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both dates,| > we can see a close| > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the| > significators.| >| > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit | > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house| > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting MEP4 (MT| > house of Saturn), and| > natal retrograde Saturn.| >| > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA, | > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,| > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3| > (losses to mother) and MEP11,| > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly aspecting| > transit Saturn, L4 | > (mother).| >| > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the| > rectified lagna of US chart,| > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.| >| > Best wishes,

| >| > Jorge| >| >| > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234| > wrote: | > >| > > I have been looking to many charts and transits | > in the last two and a| > > > half years as you know. Many times I have seen| > the FMPs in the respective| > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or other | > significators for some | > > > negative events concerning those houses.| > >| > >| > >| > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you do| > see the FMs of D-charts | > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to ask, | > is it regarding the D| > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just| > simply that the planet acts| >| === message truncated === ||||| | No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go| with Mail for Mobile. Get started.|

http://mobile./mail||||

[Guest guest]

My dear Jorge,

 

I am just surprised as can be at your off-hand reaction to our dear

.

 

I founded this list in November 2000 and based on the key idea that

we would apply SA in the mundane sphere. This was the main idea for

the list. Hence it was named the Systems' Approach to Mundane Vedic

Astrology - or SAMVA for short. I operated this list until December

2004, when I for professional reasons needed to lighten my load.

 

Please recall that when I asked you to accept to take over as

owner/moderator of this list in December 2004, I did so in the

sincere understanding and belief that you would maintain this key

focus of the list.

 

To my disappointment you have increasingly begun to introduce non-SA

elements into the discussion. The work on the SAMVA USA chart had

nothing to do with that gradual change in your approach, it began

much earlier. The work on the SAMVA USA chart however brought out the

analytical underpinnings you use more clearly - and they are not SA!

has shown you enormous latitude with these ideas.

However, recently the things just seem to be coming to a head. You

have become insistent on your own ideas and interpretations over

those of , even when he has offered you his

guidance. For those of us who follow SA it is not tenable that an SA

list is operated in this way. He is the teacher of SA that we have

gathered here to learn from. We can learn from each other in applying

SA, but not when we go off into other directions. That just creates

confusion.

 

If it is your intention to continue in non-SA direction, as your 200%

and 300% statements indicate, you should do the honorable thing and

start your own list. I am sure many will want to participate with you

if you decide to do that. At the same time, you should then restore

ownership of SAMVA list to me and I will continue with it as before

for the continuing benefit of SA astrologers.

 

Let me just close by saying that I am saddened by the present

situation as I have really liked our interaction on and off the list.

However, as the situation has come to a head with regard to the

purpose of this list, I just hope we can resolve this situation in a

good way for everybodies benefit.

 

With my sincere best wishes

for your continued success

and that of SAMVA,

 

Thor

 

SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino

wrote:

>

> My dear Professor,

>

> as you know, all this discussion started with the evaluation of the

SAMVA US

> chart and the US rectified chart. I have to explain to the group

why my 300%

> beliefs go the 1776 US chart and that implies the explanation of my

use of

> FMPs in D-charts.

>

> As you have said before, SAMVA and SATVA are two different

entities. This is

> already the second time that you loose your temper with me without

any

> reason. If you feel that you should leave the list, it is up to

you. I would

> prefer that you stay with us, but I don't want to disturb your wish.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Jorge

>

>

> On 2/14/07, siha <siha wrote:

> >

> >  **

> > Hello dear Mr. Jorge,

> >

> > I am not referring to your last answer to SG. But bringing in

one after

> > the other non-SA concepts in discussions on a list set up for

discussions on

> > SA is not appropriate.

> >

> > I do not want interpolations and inclusions of any meanings

ascribed to SA

> > concepts which are not in line with SA principles. I do not

impose myself on

> > others. Those who want to follow other than SA principles they

are welcome

> > to do so off list or on other list.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > ** Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino

> > *To:* SAMVA

> > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:24 PM

> > *Subject:* Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts

> >

> >

> > My dear Professor,

> >

> > I do not see what kind of confusion may happen with my last

answer to Mr.

> > Sadasivan:

> >

> > Dear Sadasivan,

> >

> > In my opinion, your understanding is correct.

> >

> > First priority goes always to the role played by the FMPs in D1,

but for

> > any area of life a complete analysis requires that we look

carefully to the

> > corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of both charts.

> >

> > But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Jorge

> >

> >

> >

> > On 2/14/07, siha <siha >

> > wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,

> > >

> > > The subject being discussed in not as per SA and just creating

> > > confusion. It

> > > would be better if this and other non-SA concepts, if

necessary, are

> > > discussed off list. As is evident from the name of the group it

is for

> > > discussing Systems' Approach and if you want to discuss non SA

concepts

> > > better open a new group or change the name of the list (group).

I am

> > > sorry I

> > > have to say so. Or if you want to continue it here and like

this, then I

> > > may

> > > leave the group.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > " SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN " <sadasivan_g

> > > <SAMVA >

> > > Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PM

> > > Re: Re: US rectified chart, Prediction

Fulfilled

> > >

> > >

> > > | Dear Jorge,

> > > |

> > > | >From the example , I can understand that if

> > > |

> > > | 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if in

> > > | D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM .In

> > > | other words Jupiter is a FM as far as Marriage

> > > | matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter

> > > | transits the 7th house or the 7th lord Saturn

> > > | natally , we can expect friction in married life

> > > | ? AM I correct?

> > > |

> > > | 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa Jup

> > > | is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or 5th

> > > | house then also 5th house sign suffers.

> > > |

> > > | Kindly revert.

> > > |

> > > | Sadasivan

> > > |

> > > | --- Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino wrote:

> > > |

> > > | > Dear Sally,

> > > | >

> > > | > The examples given were just regarding US rectifed

> > > | > chart, where Jupiter is

> > > | > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events under

> > > | > analysis were mainly

> > > | > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of Jupiter as

> > > | > FMP was played in

> > > | > almost all important dates strongly connected with

> > > | > war.

> > > | >

> > > | > In the next example, this lady lost her father on

> > > | > May 16, 1990, and her

> > > | > mother on September 7, 2000.

> > > | >

> > > | >

> > > | > Lady lost parents;

> > > | > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST

> > > | > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME

> > > | >

> > > | > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

> > > | > ================================================

> > > | > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa

> > > | > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke

> > > | > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke

> > > | > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra

> > > | > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa

> > > | > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa

> > > | > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo

> > > | > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve

> > > | > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo

> > > | > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me

> > > | >

> > > | > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982

> > > | > beats

> > > | > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM

> > > | > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi

> > > | > Rashi Chart

> > > | >

> > > | *******************************************************

> > > | > ** 9 * * 7

> > > | > **

> > > | > *10* * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * SAR13:46* * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * JUR07:15 * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA

> > > | > 19:43*

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > ** * *

> > > | > **

> > > | > *11 * 5 MO 06:46

> > > | > *

> > > | > ** * *

> > > | > **

> > > | > *12* * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > *ME 09:17 * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > ** 1 * * 3

> > > | > **

> > > | >

> > > | *******************************************************

> > > | >

> > > | > Dwadasamsha

> > > | >

> > > | *******************************************************

> > > | > ** 3 * * 1

> > > | > **

> > > | > *4 * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * ME * RA *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * AS * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * 2 SU * 12

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * SAR * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > ** * *

> > > | > **

> > > | > *5 * 11

> > > | > *

> > > | > ** * *

> > > | > **

> > > | > *6 * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > *VE * 8 * 10 JUR

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * MO * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * MA * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * KE * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *

> > > | > ** 7 * * 9

> > > | > **

> > > | >

> > > | *******************************************************

> > > | > The D-chart related with parents and losses is D-12,

> > > | > where Jupiter is the

> > > | > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both dates,

> > > | > we can see a close

> > > | > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the

> > > | > significators.

> > > | >

> > > | > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit

> > > | > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house

> > > | > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting MEP4 (MT

> > > | > house of Saturn), and

> > > | > natal retrograde Saturn.

> > > | >

> > > | > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA,

> > > | > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,

> > > | > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3

> > > | > (losses to mother) and MEP11,

> > > | > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly aspecting

> > > | > transit Saturn, L4

> > > | > (mother).

> > > | >

> > > | > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the

> > > | > rectified lagna of US chart,

> > > | > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.

> > > | >

> > > | > Best wishes,

> > > | >

> > > | > Jorge

> > > | >

> > > | >

> > > | > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234

> > > | > wrote:

> > > | > >

> > > | > > I have been looking to many charts and transits

> > > | > in the last two and a

> > > | > > > half years as you know. Many times I have seen

> > > | > the FMPs in the respective

> > > | > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or other

> > > | > significators for some

> > > | > > > negative events concerning those houses.

> > > | > >

> > > | > >

> > > | > >

> > > | > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you do

> > > | > see the FMs of D-charts

> > > | > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to ask,

> > > | > is it regarding the D

> > > | > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just

> > > | > simply that the planet acts

> > > | >

> > > | === message truncated ===

> > > |

> > > |

> > > |

> > > |

> > > |

> > >

____________________

______________

> > >

> > > | No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

> > > | with Mail for Mobile. Get started.

> > > | http://mobile./mail

> > > |

> > > |

> > > |

> > > |

[Guest guest]

My dear Thor,

 

It is not my purpose to go outside SA, but when I have to justify my work I have to explain how it was done. You are aware since the very beginning that for the mundane rectifications other techniques have been used...and it seems they have been useful somehow. Now I have two and a half years of detailed work to justify. It would not be ethical, and it is not my desire to go out at this stage just due to an emotional disturbance. For that I meditate. So I am OK, don't worry. Let the transits cool down. I am sure afterwards reason will prevail.

 

 

Best wishes,

 

Jorge

On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

My dear Jorge,I am just surprised as can be at your off-hand reaction to our dear.

I founded this list in November 2000 and based on the key idea thatwe would apply SA in the mundane sphere. This was the main idea forthe list. Hence it was named the Systems' Approach to Mundane Vedic

Astrology - or SAMVA for short. I operated this list until December2004, when I for professional reasons needed to lighten my load.Please recall that when I asked you to accept to take over asowner/moderator of this list in December 2004, I did so in the

sincere understanding and belief that you would maintain this keyfocus of the list.To my disappointment you have increasingly begun to introduce non-SAelements into the discussion. The work on the SAMVA USA chart had

nothing to do with that gradual change in your approach, it beganmuch earlier. The work on the SAMVA USA chart however brought out theanalytical underpinnings you use more clearly - and they are not SA! has shown you enormous latitude with these ideas.

However, recently the things just seem to be coming to a head. Youhave become insistent on your own ideas and interpretations overthose of , even when he has offered you hisguidance. For those of us who follow SA it is not tenable that an SA

list is operated in this way. He is the teacher of SA that we havegathered here to learn from. We can learn from each other in applyingSA, but not when we go off into other directions. That just createsconfusion.

If it is your intention to continue in non-SA direction, as your 200%and 300% statements indicate, you should do the honorable thing andstart your own list. I am sure many will want to participate with you

if you decide to do that. At the same time, you should then restoreownership of SAMVA list to me and I will continue with it as beforefor the continuing benefit of SA astrologers.Let me just close by saying that I am saddened by the present

situation as I have really liked our interaction on and off the list.However, as the situation has come to a head with regard to thepurpose of this list, I just hope we can resolve this situation in agood way for everybodies benefit.

With my sincere best wishesfor your continued successand that of SAMVA,ThorSAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino

wrote:>> My dear Professor,>> as you know, all this discussion started with the evaluation of theSAMVA US> chart and the US rectified chart. I have to explain to the group

why my 300%> beliefs go the 1776 US chart and that implies the explanation of myuse of> FMPs in D-charts.>> As you have said before, SAMVA and SATVA are two differententities. This is

> already the second time that you loose your temper with me withoutany> reason. If you feel that you should leave the list, it is up toyou. I would> prefer that you stay with us, but I don't want to disturb your wish.

>> Best wishes,>> Jorge>>> On 2/14/07, siha <siha wrote:> >> >  **> > Hello dear Mr. Jorge,> >> > I am not referring to your last answer to SG. But bringing in

one after> > the other non-SA concepts in discussions on a list set up fordiscussions on> > SA is not appropriate.> >> > I do not want interpolations and inclusions of any meanings

ascribed to SA> > concepts which are not in line with SA principles. I do notimpose myself on> > others. Those who want to follow other than SA principles theyare welcome> > to do so off list or on other list.

> >> > Best wishes,> >> > > >> >> > -> > ** Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino> > *To:* SAMVA > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:24 PM> > *Subject:* Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts> >> >> > My dear Professor,

> >> > I do not see what kind of confusion may happen with my lastanswer to Mr.> > Sadasivan:> >> > Dear Sadasivan,> >> > In my opinion, your understanding is correct.

> >> > First priority goes always to the role played by the FMPs in D1,but for> > any area of life a complete analysis requires that we lookcarefully to the> > corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of both charts.

> >> > But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.> >> > Best wishes,> >> > Jorge> >> >> >> > On 2/14/07, siha <siha >

> > wrote:> > >> > >> > > Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,> > >> > > The subject being discussed in not as per SA and just creating

> > > confusion. It> > > would be better if this and other non-SA concepts, ifnecessary, are> > > discussed off list. As is evident from the name of the group itis for> > > discussing Systems' Approach and if you want to discuss non SA

concepts> > > better open a new group or change the name of the list (group).I am> > > sorry I> > > have to say so. Or if you want to continue it here and likethis, then I

> > > may> > > leave the group.> > >> > > Best wishes,> > >> > > > > >> > > -

> > > " SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN " <sadasivan_g> > > <SAMVA >> > > Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PM

> > > Re: Re: US rectified chart, PredictionFulfilled> > >> > >> > > | Dear Jorge,> > > |> > > | >From the example , I can understand that if

> > > |> > > | 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if in> > > | D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM .In> > > | other words Jupiter is a FM as far as Marriage

> > > | matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter> > > | transits the 7th house or the 7th lord Saturn> > > | natally , we can expect friction in married life> > > | ? AM I correct?

> > > |> > > | 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa Jup> > > | is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or 5th> > > | house then also 5th house sign suffers.

> > > |> > > | Kindly revert.> > > |> > > | Sadasivan> > > |> > > | --- Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino wrote:> > > |

> > > | > Dear Sally,> > > | >> > > | > The examples given were just regarding US rectifed> > > | > chart, where Jupiter is> > > | > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events under

> > > | > analysis were mainly> > > | > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of Jupiter as> > > | > FMP was played in> > > | > almost all important dates strongly connected with

> > > | > war.> > > | >> > > | > In the next example, this lady lost her father on> > > | > May 16, 1990, and her> > > | > mother on September 7, 2000.

> > > | >> > > | >> > > | > Lady lost parents;> > > | > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST> > > | > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME

> > > | >> > > | > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord> > > | > ================================================> > > | > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa

> > > | > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke> > > | > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke> > > | > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra

> > > | > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa> > > | > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa> > > | > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo> > > | > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve> > > | > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo> > > | > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me> > > | >> > > | > True Node

365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982> > > | > beats> > > | > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM> > > | > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi> > > | > Rashi Chart> > > | >

> > > | *******************************************************> > > | > ** 9 * * 7> > > | > **> > > | > *10* * * *

> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *

> > > | > * SAR13:46* * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * * JUR07:15 * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA

> > > | > 19:43*> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *> > > | > ** * *> > > | > **> > > | > *11 * 5 MO 06:46> > > | > *> > > | > ** * *

> > > | > **> > > | > *12* * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > *ME 09:17 * * * *

> > > | > *> > > | > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > ** 1 * * 3> > > | > **

> > > | >> > > | *******************************************************> > > | >> > > | > Dwadasamsha> > > | >> > > | *******************************************************

> > > | > ** 3 * * 1> > > | > **> > > | > *4 * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * ME * RA *> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * AS * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * 2 SU * 12> > > | > *> > > | > * * * SAR * *

> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > ** * *

> > > | > **> > > | > *5 * 11> > > | > *> > > | > ** * *> > > | > **> > > | > *6 * * * *

> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *

> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > *VE * 8 * 10 JUR

> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * MO * * *> > > | > *

> > > | > * * MA * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * KE * * *> > > | > *> > > | > * * * * *

> > > | > *> > > | > ** 7 * * 9> > > | > **> > > | >> > > | *******************************************************> > > | > The D-chart related with parents and losses is D-12,

> > > | > where Jupiter is the> > > | > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both dates,> > > | > we can see a close> > > | > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the

> > > | > significators.> > > | >> > > | > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit> > > | > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house> > > | > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting MEP4 (MT

> > > | > house of Saturn), and> > > | > natal retrograde Saturn.> > > | >> > > | > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA,> > > | > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,

> > > | > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3> > > | > (losses to mother) and MEP11,> > > | > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly aspecting> > > | > transit Saturn, L4

> > > | > (mother).> > > | >> > > | > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the> > > | > rectified lagna of US chart,> > > | > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.

> > > | >> > > | > Best wishes,> > > | >> > > | > Jorge> > > | >> > > | >> > > | > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234

> > > | > wrote:> > > | > >> > > | > > I have been looking to many charts and transits> > > | > in the last two and a> > > | > > > half years as you know. Many times I have seen

> > > | > the FMPs in the respective> > > | > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or other> > > | > significators for some> > > | > > > negative events concerning those houses.

> > > | > >> > > | > >> > > | > >> > > | > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you do> > > | > see the FMs of D-charts

> > > | > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to ask,> > > | > is it regarding the D> > > | > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just> > > | > simply that the planet acts

> > > | >> > > | === message truncated ===> > > |> > > |> > > |> > > |> > > |> > >____________________

______________> > >> > > | No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go> > > | with Mail for Mobile. Get started.> > > |

http://mobile./mail> > > |> > > |> > > |> > > |

[Guest guest]

My dear Jorge,

 

This matter of who runs the SAMVA list is not about you. SAMVA list

is not the culmination of your work. The work you have done is a self-

standing contribution. It is based on non-SA ideas and techniques.

This only became clear to me after you had assumed ownership. Moving

your work to another list does not in any way compromise your

accomplishment and you can still continue with it outside of SAMVA.

It would actually be a better place for it as it is not based on SA.

As I also I mentioned, many list members like you and will follow you

there. There is no problem with that.

 

The issue is simply this. You are not using SA anymore. You have put

your own importance above that of . This is not

just a disturbance, it is a culmination of a intellectual

conflict that has been slowly brewing for some time. All your

postings are somehow with this new idea or twist. Just now it was

retrograde Mercury which explains the tension. That is not SA. You

may not see this clearly, but your approach has no place in SA.

 

The honorable thing now is for you to stand down as owner/moderator

and allow me to continue with the list in the proper way. You are not

being asked to run the list against your own beliefs, nor should you

or anybody have to do such a thing. That would be wrong.

 

So, please think about my offer. We can move your files to the new

list as soon as you are ready to open it. This will be best for you

and SAMVA. This list is only intended for SA. You do not have

ownership of SA or SA in the Mundane Sphere. has

now made good on his threat to leave the list if you continued the

way you have. You ignore that as some temper tantrum. I don´t see it

that way. He has given up on your approach. In view of what has been

taking place for a long time, and now has come to a head today, you

are not doing the right thing by proposing to continue after all of

us just cool down. Temper has nothing to do with. The issue just came

to a head: this is a fundamental difference of oppinion on

techniques. I hope you find clarity to do the right and honorable

thing and step down and create a new forum for your ideas. Believe

me, given where your ideas are, it will be best for you in the long

run. That way we can also continue as good friends who simply and

respectfully agree to disagree.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

 

SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino

wrote:

>

> *My dear Thor,*

> **

> *It is not my purpose to go outside SA, but when I have to justify

my work I

> have to explain how it was done. You are aware since the very

beginning that

> for the mundane rectifications other techniques have been

used...and it

> seems they have been useful somehow. Now I have two and a half

years of

> detailed work to justify. It would not be ethical, and it is not my

desire

> to go out at this stage just due to an emotional disturbance. For

that I

> meditate. So I am OK, don't worry. Let the transits cool down. I am

sure

> afterwards reason will prevail.*

> **

> *Best wishes,*

> **

> *Jorge

> *

>

> On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

> >

> > My dear Jorge,

> >

> > I am just surprised as can be at your off-hand reaction to our

dear

> > .

> >

> > I founded this list in November 2000 and based on the key idea

that

> > we would apply SA in the mundane sphere. This was the main idea

for

> > the list. Hence it was named the Systems' Approach to Mundane

Vedic

> > Astrology - or SAMVA for short. I operated this list until

December

> > 2004, when I for professional reasons needed to lighten my load.

> >

> > Please recall that when I asked you to accept to take over as

> > owner/moderator of this list in December 2004, I did so in the

> > sincere understanding and belief that you would maintain this key

> > focus of the list.

> >

> > To my disappointment you have increasingly begun to introduce non-

SA

> > elements into the discussion. The work on the SAMVA USA chart had

> > nothing to do with that gradual change in your approach, it began

> > much earlier. The work on the SAMVA USA chart however brought out

the

> > analytical underpinnings you use more clearly - and they are not

SA!

> > has shown you enormous latitude with these

ideas.

> > However, recently the things just seem to be coming to a head. You

> > have become insistent on your own ideas and interpretations over

> > those of , even when he has offered you his

> > guidance. For those of us who follow SA it is not tenable that an

SA

> > list is operated in this way. He is the teacher of SA that we have

> > gathered here to learn from. We can learn from each other in

applying

> > SA, but not when we go off into other directions. That just

creates

> > confusion.

> >

> > If it is your intention to continue in non-SA direction, as your

200%

> > and 300% statements indicate, you should do the honorable thing

and

> > start your own list. I am sure many will want to participate with

you

> > if you decide to do that. At the same time, you should then

restore

> > ownership of SAMVA list to me and I will continue with it as

before

> > for the continuing benefit of SA astrologers.

> >

> > Let me just close by saying that I am saddened by the present

> > situation as I have really liked our interaction on and off the

list.

> > However, as the situation has come to a head with regard to the

> > purpose of this list, I just hope we can resolve this situation

in a

> > good way for everybodies benefit.

> >

> > With my sincere best wishes

> > for your continued success

> > and that of SAMVA,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > My dear Professor,

> > >

> > > as you know, all this discussion started with the evaluation of

the

> > SAMVA US

> > > chart and the US rectified chart. I have to explain to the group

> > why my 300%

> > > beliefs go the 1776 US chart and that implies the explanation

of my

> > use of

> > > FMPs in D-charts.

> > >

> > > As you have said before, SAMVA and SATVA are two different

> > entities. This is

> > > already the second time that you loose your temper with me

without

> > any

> > > reason. If you feel that you should leave the list, it is up to

> > you. I would

> > > prefer that you stay with us, but I don't want to disturb your

wish.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Jorge

> > >

> > >

> > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >  **

> > > > Hello dear Mr. Jorge,

> > > >

> > > > I am not referring to your last answer to SG. But bringing in

> > one after

> > > > the other non-SA concepts in discussions on a list set up for

> > discussions on

> > > > SA is not appropriate.

> > > >

> > > > I do not want interpolations and inclusions of any meanings

> > ascribed to SA

> > > > concepts which are not in line with SA principles. I do not

> > impose myself on

> > > > others. Those who want to follow other than SA principles

they

> > are welcome

> > > > to do so off list or on other list.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > ** Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino@>

> > > > *To:* SAMVA

> > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:24 PM

> > > > *Subject:* Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > My dear Professor,

> > > >

> > > > I do not see what kind of confusion may happen with my last

> > answer to Mr.

> > > > Sadasivan:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sadasivan,

> > > >

> > > > In my opinion, your understanding is correct.

> > > >

> > > > First priority goes always to the role played by the FMPs in

D1,

> > but for

> > > > any area of life a complete analysis requires that we look

> > carefully to the

> > > > corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of both charts.

> > > >

> > > > But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > Jorge

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@ >

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,

> > > > >

> > > > > The subject being discussed in not as per SA and just

creating

> > > > > confusion. It

> > > > > would be better if this and other non-SA concepts, if

> > necessary, are

> > > > > discussed off list. As is evident from the name of the

group it

> > is for

> > > > > discussing Systems' Approach and if you want to discuss non

SA

> > concepts

> > > > > better open a new group or change the name of the list

(group).

> > I am

> > > > > sorry I

> > > > > have to say so. Or if you want to continue it here and like

> > this, then I

> > > > > may

> > > > > leave the group.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > " SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN " <sadasivan_g@>

> > > > > <SAMVA >

> > > > > Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PM

> > > > > Re: Re: US rectified chart, Prediction

> > Fulfilled

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > | Dear Jorge,

> > > > > |

> > > > > | >From the example , I can understand that if

> > > > > |

> > > > > | 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if in

> > > > > | D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM .In

> > > > > | other words Jupiter is a FM as far as Marriage

> > > > > | matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter

> > > > > | transits the 7th house or the 7th lord Saturn

> > > > > | natally , we can expect friction in married life

> > > > > | ? AM I correct?

> > > > > |

> > > > > | 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa Jup

> > > > > | is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or 5th

> > > > > | house then also 5th house sign suffers.

> > > > > |

> > > > > | Kindly revert.

> > > > > |

> > > > > | Sadasivan

> > > > > |

> > > > > | --- Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino@> wrote:

> > > > > |

> > > > > | > Dear Sally,

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | > The examples given were just regarding US rectifed

> > > > > | > chart, where Jupiter is

> > > > > | > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events under

> > > > > | > analysis were mainly

> > > > > | > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of Jupiter as

> > > > > | > FMP was played in

> > > > > | > almost all important dates strongly connected with

> > > > > | > war.

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | > In the next example, this lady lost her father on

> > > > > | > May 16, 1990, and her

> > > > > | > mother on September 7, 2000.

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | > Lady lost parents;

> > > > > | > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST

> > > > > | > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

> > > > > | > ================================================

> > > > > | > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa

> > > > > | > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke

> > > > > | > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke

> > > > > | > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra

> > > > > | > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa

> > > > > | > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa

> > > > > | > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo

> > > > > | > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve

> > > > > | > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo

> > > > > | > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982

> > > > > | > beats

> > > > > | > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM

> > > > > | > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi

> > > > > | > Rashi Chart

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | *******************************************************

> > > > > | > ** 9 * * 7

> > > > > | > **

> > > > > | > *10* * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * SAR13:46* * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * JUR07:15 * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA

> > > > > | > 19:43*

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > | > **

> > > > > | > *11 * 5 MO 06:46

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > | > **

> > > > > | > *12* * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > *ME 09:17 * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > ** 1 * * 3

> > > > > | > **

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | *******************************************************

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | > Dwadasamsha

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | *******************************************************

> > > > > | > ** 3 * * 1

> > > > > | > **

> > > > > | > *4 * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * ME * RA *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * AS * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * 2 SU * 12

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * SAR * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > | > **

> > > > > | > *5 * 11

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > | > **

> > > > > | > *6 * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > *VE * 8 * 10 JUR

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * MO * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * MA * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * KE * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > ** 7 * * 9

> > > > > | > **

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | *******************************************************

> > > > > | > The D-chart related with parents and losses is D-12,

> > > > > | > where Jupiter is the

> > > > > | > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both dates,

> > > > > | > we can see a close

> > > > > | > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the

> > > > > | > significators.

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit

> > > > > | > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house

> > > > > | > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting MEP4 (MT

> > > > > | > house of Saturn), and

> > > > > | > natal retrograde Saturn.

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA,

> > > > > | > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,

> > > > > | > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3

> > > > > | > (losses to mother) and MEP11,

> > > > > | > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly aspecting

> > > > > | > transit Saturn, L4

> > > > > | > (mother).

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the

> > > > > | > rectified lagna of US chart,

> > > > > | > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | > Best wishes,

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | > Jorge

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234@>

> > > > > | > wrote:

> > > > > | > >

> > > > > | > > I have been looking to many charts and transits

> > > > > | > in the last two and a

> > > > > | > > > half years as you know. Many times I have seen

> > > > > | > the FMPs in the respective

> > > > > | > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or other

> > > > > | > significators for some

> > > > > | > > > negative events concerning those houses.

> > > > > | > >

> > > > > | > >

> > > > > | > >

> > > > > | > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you do

> > > > > | > see the FMs of D-charts

> > > > > | > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to ask,

> > > > > | > is it regarding the D

> > > > > | > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just

> > > > > | > simply that the planet acts

> > > > > | >

> > > > > | === message truncated ===

> > > > > |

> > > > > |

> > > > > |

> > > > > |

> > > > > |

> > > > >

> >

____________________

> > ______________

> > > > >

> > > > > | No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

> > > > > | with Mail for Mobile. Get started.

> > > > > | http://mobile./mail

> > > > > |

> > > > > |

> > > > > |

> > > > > |

[Guest guest]

My dear Thor.

You just became the owner again.

I hope I can stay as member.

Best wishes,

Jorge

On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

My dear Jorge,This matter of who runs the SAMVA list is not about you. SAMVA listis not the culmination of your work. The work you have done is a self-

standing contribution. It is based on non-SA ideas and techniques.This only became clear to me after you had assumed ownership. Movingyour work to another list does not in any way compromise youraccomplishment and you can still continue with it outside of SAMVA.

It would actually be a better place for it as it is not based on SA.As I also I mentioned, many list members like you and will follow youthere. There is no problem with that.The issue is simply this. You are not using SA anymore. You have put

your own importance above that of . This is notjust a disturbance, it is a culmination of a intellectualconflict that has been slowly brewing for some time. All yourpostings are somehow with this new idea or twist. Just now it was

retrograde Mercury which explains the tension. That is not SA. Youmay not see this clearly, but your approach has no place in SA.The honorable thing now is for you to stand down as owner/moderatorand allow me to continue with the list in the proper way. You are not

being asked to run the list against your own beliefs, nor should youor anybody have to do such a thing. That would be wrong.So, please think about my offer. We can move your files to the newlist as soon as you are ready to open it. This will be best for you

and SAMVA. This list is only intended for SA. You do not haveownership of SA or SA in the Mundane Sphere. hasnow made good on his threat to leave the list if you continued theway you have. You ignore that as some temper tantrum. I don´t see it

that way. He has given up on your approach. In view of what has beentaking place for a long time, and now has come to a head today, youare not doing the right thing by proposing to continue after all ofus just cool down. Temper has nothing to do with. The issue just came

to a head: this is a fundamental difference of oppinion ontechniques. I hope you find clarity to do the right and honorablething and step down and create a new forum for your ideas. Believeme, given where your ideas are, it will be best for you in the long

run. That way we can also continue as good friends who simply andrespectfully agree to disagree.Best wishes,ThorSAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <

jorge.angelinowrote:>> *My dear Thor,*> **> *It is not my purpose to go outside SA, but when I have to justifymy work I> have to explain how it was done. You are aware since the very

beginning that> for the mundane rectifications other techniques have beenused...and it> seems they have been useful somehow. Now I have two and a halfyears of> detailed work to justify. It would not be ethical, and it is not my

desire> to go out at this stage just due to an emotional disturbance. Forthat I> meditate. So I am OK, don't worry. Let the transits cool down. I amsure> afterwards reason will prevail.*

> **> *Best wishes,*> **> *Jorge> *>> On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:> >> > My dear Jorge,> >> > I am just surprised as can be at your off-hand reaction to our

dear> > .> >> > I founded this list in November 2000 and based on the key ideathat> > we would apply SA in the mundane sphere. This was the main ideafor

> > the list. Hence it was named the Systems' Approach to MundaneVedic> > Astrology - or SAMVA for short. I operated this list untilDecember> > 2004, when I for professional reasons needed to lighten my load.

> >> > Please recall that when I asked you to accept to take over as> > owner/moderator of this list in December 2004, I did so in the> > sincere understanding and belief that you would maintain this key

> > focus of the list.> >> > To my disappointment you have increasingly begun to introduce non-SA> > elements into the discussion. The work on the SAMVA USA chart had> > nothing to do with that gradual change in your approach, it began

> > much earlier. The work on the SAMVA USA chart however brought outthe> > analytical underpinnings you use more clearly - and they are notSA!> > has shown you enormous latitude with these

ideas.> > However, recently the things just seem to be coming to a head. You> > have become insistent on your own ideas and interpretations over> > those of , even when he has offered you his

> > guidance. For those of us who follow SA it is not tenable that anSA> > list is operated in this way. He is the teacher of SA that we have> > gathered here to learn from. We can learn from each other in

applying> > SA, but not when we go off into other directions. That justcreates> > confusion.> >> > If it is your intention to continue in non-SA direction, as your200%

> > and 300% statements indicate, you should do the honorable thingand> > start your own list. I am sure many will want to participate withyou> > if you decide to do that. At the same time, you should then

restore> > ownership of SAMVA list to me and I will continue with it asbefore> > for the continuing benefit of SA astrologers.> >> > Let me just close by saying that I am saddened by the present

> > situation as I have really liked our interaction on and off thelist.> > However, as the situation has come to a head with regard to the> > purpose of this list, I just hope we can resolve this situation

in a> > good way for everybodies benefit.> >> > With my sincere best wishes> > for your continued success> > and that of SAMVA,> >> > Thor> >

> > SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino@>> > wrote:> > >> > > My dear Professor,> > >

> > > as you know, all this discussion started with the evaluation ofthe> > SAMVA US> > > chart and the US rectified chart. I have to explain to the group> > why my 300%

> > > beliefs go the 1776 US chart and that implies the explanationof my> > use of> > > FMPs in D-charts.> > >> > > As you have said before, SAMVA and SATVA are two different

> > entities. This is> > > already the second time that you loose your temper with mewithout> > any> > > reason. If you feel that you should leave the list, it is up to

> > you. I would> > > prefer that you stay with us, but I don't want to disturb yourwish.> > >> > > Best wishes,> > >> > > Jorge> > >

> > >> > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@> wrote:> > > >> > > >  **> > > > Hello dear Mr. Jorge,> > > >> > > > I am not referring to your last answer to SG. But bringing in

> > one after> > > > the other non-SA concepts in discussions on a list set up for> > discussions on> > > > SA is not appropriate.> > > >> > > > I do not want interpolations and inclusions of any meanings

> > ascribed to SA> > > > concepts which are not in line with SA principles. I do not> > impose myself on> > > > others. Those who want to follow other than SA principles

they> > are welcome> > > > to do so off list or on other list.> > > >> > > > Best wishes,> > > >> > > > > > > >

> > > >> > > > -> > > > ** Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino@>> > > > *To:* SAMVA

> > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:24 PM> > > > *Subject:* Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts> > > >> > > >> > > > My dear Professor,

> > > >> > > > I do not see what kind of confusion may happen with my last> > answer to Mr.> > > > Sadasivan:> > > >> > > > Dear Sadasivan,

> > > >> > > > In my opinion, your understanding is correct.> > > >> > > > First priority goes always to the role played by the FMPs inD1,> > but for

> > > > any area of life a complete analysis requires that we look> > carefully to the> > > > corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of both charts.> > > >

> > > > But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.> > > >> > > > Best wishes,> > > >> > > > Jorge> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@ >> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,

> > > > >> > > > > The subject being discussed in not as per SA and justcreating> > > > > confusion. It> > > > > would be better if this and other non-SA concepts, if

> > necessary, are> > > > > discussed off list. As is evident from the name of thegroup it> > is for> > > > > discussing Systems' Approach and if you want to discuss non

SA> > concepts> > > > > better open a new group or change the name of the list(group).> > I am> > > > > sorry I> > > > > have to say so. Or if you want to continue it here and like

> > this, then I> > > > > may> > > > > leave the group.> > > > >> > > > > Best wishes,> > > > >> > > > >

> > > > >> > > > > -> > > > > " SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN " <sadasivan_g@>> > > > > <

SAMVA >> > > > > Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PM> > > > > Re: Re: US rectified chart, Prediction> > Fulfilled> > > > >

> > > > >> > > > > | Dear Jorge,> > > > > |> > > > > | >From the example , I can understand that if> > > > > |> > > > > | 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if in

> > > > > | D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM .In> > > > > | other words Jupiter is a FM as far as Marriage> > > > > | matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter

> > > > > | transits the 7th house or the 7th lord Saturn> > > > > | natally , we can expect friction in married life> > > > > | ? AM I correct?> > > > > |

> > > > > | 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa Jup> > > > > | is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or 5th> > > > > | house then also 5th house sign suffers.

> > > > > |> > > > > | Kindly revert.> > > > > |> > > > > | Sadasivan> > > > > |> > > > > | --- Jorge Angelino <

jorge.angelino@> wrote:> > > > > |> > > > > | > Dear Sally,> > > > > | >> > > > > | > The examples given were just regarding US rectifed

> > > > > | > chart, where Jupiter is> > > > > | > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events under> > > > > | > analysis were mainly> > > > > | > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of Jupiter as

> > > > > | > FMP was played in> > > > > | > almost all important dates strongly connected with> > > > > | > war.> > > > > | >> > > > > | > In the next example, this lady lost her father on

> > > > > | > May 16, 1990, and her> > > > > | > mother on September 7, 2000.> > > > > | >> > > > > | >> > > > > | > Lady lost parents;

> > > > > | > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST> > > > > | > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME> > > > > | >> > > > > | > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

> > > > > | > ================================================> > > > > | > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa> > > > > | > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke

> > > > > | > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke> > > > > | > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra> > > > > | > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa> > > > > | > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa> > > > > | > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo> > > > > | > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve> > > > > | > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo> > > > > | > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me> > > > > | >> > > > > | > True Node

365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982> > > > > | > beats> > > > > | > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM> > > > > | > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi> > > > > | > Rashi Chart

> > > > > | >> > > > > | *******************************************************> > > > > | > ** 9 * * 7> > > > > | > **

> > > > > | > *10* * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * SAR13:46* * *> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * JUR07:15 * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA> > > > > | > 19:43*

> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > ** * *> > > > > | > **

> > > > > | > *11 * 5 MO 06:46> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > ** * *> > > > > | > **

> > > > > | > *12* * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > *ME 09:17 * * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > ** 1 * * 3> > > > > | > **

> > > > > | >> > > > > | *******************************************************> > > > > | >> > > > > | > Dwadasamsha> > > > > | >

> > > > > | *******************************************************> > > > > | > ** 3 * * 1> > > > > | > **> > > > > | > *4 * * * *

> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * ME * RA *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * AS * *

> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * 2 SU * 12> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * SAR * *

> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > ** * *> > > > > | > **> > > > > | > *5 * 11> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > ** * *> > > > > | > **> > > > > | > *6 * * * *> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > *VE * 8 * 10 JUR> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * MO * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * MA * * *> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > * * KE * * *> > > > > | > *> > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > | > *

> > > > > | > ** 7 * * 9> > > > > | > **> > > > > | >> > > > > | *******************************************************

> > > > > | > The D-chart related with parents and losses is D-12,> > > > > | > where Jupiter is the> > > > > | > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both dates,

> > > > > | > we can see a close> > > > > | > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the> > > > > | > significators.> > > > > | >> > > > > | > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit

> > > > > | > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house> > > > > | > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting MEP4 (MT> > > > > | > house of Saturn), and> > > > > | > natal retrograde Saturn.

> > > > > | >> > > > > | > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA,> > > > > | > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,> > > > > | > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3

> > > > > | > (losses to mother) and MEP11,> > > > > | > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly aspecting> > > > > | > transit Saturn, L4> > > > > | > (mother).

> > > > > | >> > > > > | > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the> > > > > | > rectified lagna of US chart,> > > > > | > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.

> > > > > | >> > > > > | > Best wishes,> > > > > | >> > > > > | > Jorge> > > > > | >> > > > > | >

> > > > > | > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234@>> > > > > | > wrote:> > > > > | > >> > > > > | > > I have been looking to many charts and transits

> > > > > | > in the last two and a> > > > > | > > > half years as you know. Many times I have seen> > > > > | > the FMPs in the respective> > > > > | > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or other

> > > > > | > significators for some> > > > > | > > > negative events concerning those houses.> > > > > | > >> > > > > | > >

> > > > > | > >> > > > > | > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you do> > > > > | > see the FMs of D-charts> > > > > | > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to ask,

> > > > > | > is it regarding the D> > > > > | > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just> > > > > | > simply that the planet acts> > > > > | >

> > > > > | === message truncated ===> > > > > |> > > > > |> > > > > |> > > > > |> > > > > |> > > > >

> >____________________> > ______________> > > > >> > > > > | No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

> > > > > | with Mail for Mobile. Get started.> > > > > | http://mobile./mail> > > > > |> > > > > |

> > > > > |> > > > > |

[Guest guest]

My dear Jorge,

 

Thank you for the magnimonious act. You have yet again shown what a

great person you are. We would be honored to keep your company. Let

me take the opportunity to thank you for all that you have done for

SAMVA. You are a hero in our ranks!

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

PS now we just have to get back!

 

 

SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino

wrote:

>

> My dear Thor.

> You just became the owner again.

> I hope I can stay as member.

> Best wishes,

> Jorge

>

>

> On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

> >

> > My dear Jorge,

> >

> > This matter of who runs the SAMVA list is not about you. SAMVA

list

> > is not the culmination of your work. The work you have done is a

self-

> > standing contribution. It is based on non-SA ideas and techniques.

> > This only became clear to me after you had assumed ownership.

Moving

> > your work to another list does not in any way compromise your

> > accomplishment and you can still continue with it outside of

SAMVA.

> > It would actually be a better place for it as it is not based on

SA.

> > As I also I mentioned, many list members like you and will follow

you

> > there. There is no problem with that.

> >

> > The issue is simply this. You are not using SA anymore. You have

put

> > your own importance above that of . This is not

> > just a disturbance, it is a culmination of a intellectual

> > conflict that has been slowly brewing for some time. All your

> > postings are somehow with this new idea or twist. Just now it was

> > retrograde Mercury which explains the tension. That is not SA. You

> > may not see this clearly, but your approach has no place in SA.

> >

> > The honorable thing now is for you to stand down as

owner/moderator

> > and allow me to continue with the list in the proper way. You are

not

> > being asked to run the list against your own beliefs, nor should

you

> > or anybody have to do such a thing. That would be wrong.

> >

> > So, please think about my offer. We can move your files to the new

> > list as soon as you are ready to open it. This will be best for

you

> > and SAMVA. This list is only intended for SA. You do not have

> > ownership of SA or SA in the Mundane Sphere.

has

> > now made good on his threat to leave the list if you continued the

> > way you have. You ignore that as some temper tantrum. I don´t

see it

> > that way. He has given up on your approach. In view of what has

been

> > taking place for a long time, and now has come to a head today,

you

> > are not doing the right thing by proposing to continue after all

of

> > us just cool down. Temper has nothing to do with. The issue just

came

> > to a head: this is a fundamental difference of oppinion on

> > techniques. I hope you find clarity to do the right and honorable

> > thing and step down and create a new forum for your ideas. Believe

> > me, given where your ideas are, it will be best for you in the

long

> > run. That way we can also continue as good friends who simply and

> > respectfully agree to disagree.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> >

> > SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > *My dear Thor,*

> > > **

> > > *It is not my purpose to go outside SA, but when I have to

justify

> > my work I

> > > have to explain how it was done. You are aware since the very

> > beginning that

> > > for the mundane rectifications other techniques have been

> > used...and it

> > > seems they have been useful somehow. Now I have two and a half

> > years of

> > > detailed work to justify. It would not be ethical, and it is

not my

> > desire

> > > to go out at this stage just due to an emotional disturbance.

For

> > that I

> > > meditate. So I am OK, don't worry. Let the transits cool down.

I am

> > sure

> > > afterwards reason will prevail.*

> > > **

> > > *Best wishes,*

> > > **

> > > *Jorge

> > > *

> > >

> > > On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > My dear Jorge,

> > > >

> > > > I am just surprised as can be at your off-hand reaction to our

> > dear

> > > > .

> > > >

> > > > I founded this list in November 2000 and based on the key idea

> > that

> > > > we would apply SA in the mundane sphere. This was the main

idea

> > for

> > > > the list. Hence it was named the Systems' Approach to Mundane

> > Vedic

> > > > Astrology - or SAMVA for short. I operated this list until

> > December

> > > > 2004, when I for professional reasons needed to lighten my

load.

> > > >

> > > > Please recall that when I asked you to accept to take over as

> > > > owner/moderator of this list in December 2004, I did so in the

> > > > sincere understanding and belief that you would maintain this

key

> > > > focus of the list.

> > > >

> > > > To my disappointment you have increasingly begun to introduce

non-

> > SA

> > > > elements into the discussion. The work on the SAMVA USA chart

had

> > > > nothing to do with that gradual change in your approach, it

began

> > > > much earlier. The work on the SAMVA USA chart however brought

out

> > the

> > > > analytical underpinnings you use more clearly - and they are

not

> > SA!

> > > > has shown you enormous latitude with these

> > ideas.

> > > > However, recently the things just seem to be coming to a

head. You

> > > > have become insistent on your own ideas and interpretations

over

> > > > those of , even when he has offered you his

> > > > guidance. For those of us who follow SA it is not tenable

that an

> > SA

> > > > list is operated in this way. He is the teacher of SA that we

have

> > > > gathered here to learn from. We can learn from each other in

> > applying

> > > > SA, but not when we go off into other directions. That just

> > creates

> > > > confusion.

> > > >

> > > > If it is your intention to continue in non-SA direction, as

your

> > 200%

> > > > and 300% statements indicate, you should do the honorable

thing

> > and

> > > > start your own list. I am sure many will want to participate

with

> > you

> > > > if you decide to do that. At the same time, you should then

> > restore

> > > > ownership of SAMVA list to me and I will continue with it as

> > before

> > > > for the continuing benefit of SA astrologers.

> > > >

> > > > Let me just close by saying that I am saddened by the present

> > > > situation as I have really liked our interaction on and off

the

> > list.

> > > > However, as the situation has come to a head with regard to

the

> > > > purpose of this list, I just hope we can resolve this

situation

> > in a

> > > > good way for everybodies benefit.

> > > >

> > > > With my sincere best wishes

> > > > for your continued success

> > > > and that of SAMVA,

> > > >

> > > > Thor

> > > >

> > > > SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino "

<jorge.angelino@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > My dear Professor,

> > > > >

> > > > > as you know, all this discussion started with the

evaluation of

> > the

> > > > SAMVA US

> > > > > chart and the US rectified chart. I have to explain to the

group

> > > > why my 300%

> > > > > beliefs go the 1776 US chart and that implies the

explanation

> > of my

> > > > use of

> > > > > FMPs in D-charts.

> > > > >

> > > > > As you have said before, SAMVA and SATVA are two different

> > > > entities. This is

> > > > > already the second time that you loose your temper with me

> > without

> > > > any

> > > > > reason. If you feel that you should leave the list, it is

up to

> > > > you. I would

> > > > > prefer that you stay with us, but I don't want to disturb

your

> > wish.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > >

> > > > > Jorge

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >  **

> > > > > > Hello dear Mr. Jorge,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am not referring to your last answer to SG. But

bringing in

> > > > one after

> > > > > > the other non-SA concepts in discussions on a list set up

for

> > > > discussions on

> > > > > > SA is not appropriate.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I do not want interpolations and inclusions of any

meanings

> > > > ascribed to SA

> > > > > > concepts which are not in line with SA principles. I do

not

> > > > impose myself on

> > > > > > others. Those who want to follow other than SA principles

> > they

> > > > are welcome

> > > > > > to do so off list or on other list.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -

> > > > > > ** Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino@>

> > > > > > *To:* SAMVA

> > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:24 PM

> > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My dear Professor,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I do not see what kind of confusion may happen with my

last

> > > > answer to Mr.

> > > > > > Sadasivan:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Sadasivan,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In my opinion, your understanding is correct.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > First priority goes always to the role played by the FMPs

in

> > D1,

> > > > but for

> > > > > > any area of life a complete analysis requires that we look

> > > > carefully to the

> > > > > > corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of both

charts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jorge

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@ >

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The subject being discussed in not as per SA and just

> > creating

> > > > > > > confusion. It

> > > > > > > would be better if this and other non-SA concepts, if

> > > > necessary, are

> > > > > > > discussed off list. As is evident from the name of the

> > group it

> > > > is for

> > > > > > > discussing Systems' Approach and if you want to discuss

non

> > SA

> > > > concepts

> > > > > > > better open a new group or change the name of the list

> > (group).

> > > > I am

> > > > > > > sorry I

> > > > > > > have to say so. Or if you want to continue it here and

like

> > > > this, then I

> > > > > > > may

> > > > > > > leave the group.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > " SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN " <sadasivan_g@>

> > > > > > > <SAMVA >

> > > > > > > Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PM

> > > > > > > Re: Re: US rectified chart, Prediction

> > > > Fulfilled

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > | Dear Jorge,

> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > | >From the example , I can understand that if

> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > | 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if in

> > > > > > > | D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM .In

> > > > > > > | other words Jupiter is a FM as far as Marriage

> > > > > > > | matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter

> > > > > > > | transits the 7th house or the 7th lord Saturn

> > > > > > > | natally , we can expect friction in married life

> > > > > > > | ? AM I correct?

> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > | 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa Jup

> > > > > > > | is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or 5th

> > > > > > > | house then also 5th house sign suffers.

> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > | Kindly revert.

> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > | Sadasivan

> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > | --- Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino@> wrote:

> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > | > Dear Sally,

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | > The examples given were just regarding US rectifed

> > > > > > > | > chart, where Jupiter is

> > > > > > > | > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events under

> > > > > > > | > analysis were mainly

> > > > > > > | > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of Jupiter as

> > > > > > > | > FMP was played in

> > > > > > > | > almost all important dates strongly connected with

> > > > > > > | > war.

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | > In the next example, this lady lost her father on

> > > > > > > | > May 16, 1990, and her

> > > > > > > | > mother on September 7, 2000.

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | > Lady lost parents;

> > > > > > > | > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST

> > > > > > > | > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

> > > > > > > | > ================================================

> > > > > > > | > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa

> > > > > > > | > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke

> > > > > > > | > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke

> > > > > > > | > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra

> > > > > > > | > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa

> > > > > > > | > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa

> > > > > > > | > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo

> > > > > > > | > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve

> > > > > > > | > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo

> > > > > > > | > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982

> > > > > > > | > beats

> > > > > > > | > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM

> > > > > > > | > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi

> > > > > > > | > Rashi Chart

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > |

*******************************************************

> > > > > > > | > ** 9 * * 7

> > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > | > *10* * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * SAR13:46* * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * JUR07:15 * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA

> > > > > > > | > 19:43*

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > | > *11 * 5 MO 06:46

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > | > *12* * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > *ME 09:17 * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > ** 1 * * 3

> > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > |

*******************************************************

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | > Dwadasamsha

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > |

*******************************************************

> > > > > > > | > ** 3 * * 1

> > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > | > *4 * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * ME * RA *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * AS * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * 2 SU * 12

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * SAR * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > | > *5 * 11

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > | > *6 * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > *VE * 8 * 10 JUR

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * MO * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * MA * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * KE * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > | > ** 7 * * 9

> > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > |

*******************************************************

> > > > > > > | > The D-chart related with parents and losses is D-12,

> > > > > > > | > where Jupiter is the

> > > > > > > | > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both dates,

> > > > > > > | > we can see a close

> > > > > > > | > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the

> > > > > > > | > significators.

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit

> > > > > > > | > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house

> > > > > > > | > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting MEP4 (MT

> > > > > > > | > house of Saturn), and

> > > > > > > | > natal retrograde Saturn.

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA,

> > > > > > > | > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,

> > > > > > > | > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3

> > > > > > > | > (losses to mother) and MEP11,

> > > > > > > | > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly aspecting

> > > > > > > | > transit Saturn, L4

> > > > > > > | > (mother).

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the

> > > > > > > | > rectified lagna of US chart,

> > > > > > > | > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | > Best wishes,

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | > Jorge

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234@>

> > > > > > > | > wrote:

> > > > > > > | > >

> > > > > > > | > > I have been looking to many charts and transits

> > > > > > > | > in the last two and a

> > > > > > > | > > > half years as you know. Many times I have seen

> > > > > > > | > the FMPs in the respective

> > > > > > > | > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or other

> > > > > > > | > significators for some

> > > > > > > | > > > negative events concerning those houses.

> > > > > > > | > >

> > > > > > > | > >

> > > > > > > | > >

> > > > > > > | > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you do

> > > > > > > | > see the FMs of D-charts

> > > > > > > | > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to ask,

> > > > > > > | > is it regarding the D

> > > > > > > | > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just

> > > > > > > | > simply that the planet acts

> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | === message truncated ===

> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > >

> > > >

> >

____________________

> > > > ______________

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > | No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

> > > > > > > | with Mail for Mobile. Get started.

> > > > > > > | http://mobile./mail

> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > |

[Guest guest]

Thanks my dear FRIEND.

Best wishes,

Jorge

On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

My dear Jorge,Thank you for the magnimonious act. You have yet again shown what agreat person you are. We would be honored to keep your company. Let

me take the opportunity to thank you for all that you have done forSAMVA. You are a hero in our ranks!Best wishes,ThorPS now we just have to get back! :)SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelinowrote:>> My dear Thor.> You just became the owner again.> I hope I can stay as member.

> Best wishes,> Jorge>>> On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:> >> > My dear Jorge,> >> > This matter of who runs the SAMVA list is not about you. SAMVA

list> > is not the culmination of your work. The work you have done is aself-> > standing contribution. It is based on non-SA ideas and techniques.> > This only became clear to me after you had assumed ownership.

Moving> > your work to another list does not in any way compromise your> > accomplishment and you can still continue with it outside ofSAMVA.> > It would actually be a better place for it as it is not based on

SA.> > As I also I mentioned, many list members like you and will followyou> > there. There is no problem with that.> >> > The issue is simply this. You are not using SA anymore. You have

put> > your own importance above that of . This is not> > just a disturbance, it is a culmination of a intellectual> > conflict that has been slowly brewing for some time. All your

> > postings are somehow with this new idea or twist. Just now it was> > retrograde Mercury which explains the tension. That is not SA. You> > may not see this clearly, but your approach has no place in SA.

> >> > The honorable thing now is for you to stand down asowner/moderator> > and allow me to continue with the list in the proper way. You arenot> > being asked to run the list against your own beliefs, nor should

you> > or anybody have to do such a thing. That would be wrong.> >> > So, please think about my offer. We can move your files to the new> > list as soon as you are ready to open it. This will be best for

you> > and SAMVA. This list is only intended for SA. You do not have> > ownership of SA or SA in the Mundane Sphere. has> > now made good on his threat to leave the list if you continued the

> > way you have. You ignore that as some temper tantrum. I don´tsee it> > that way. He has given up on your approach. In view of what hasbeen> > taking place for a long time, and now has come to a head today,

you> > are not doing the right thing by proposing to continue after allof> > us just cool down. Temper has nothing to do with. The issue justcame> > to a head: this is a fundamental difference of oppinion on

> > techniques. I hope you find clarity to do the right and honorable> > thing and step down and create a new forum for your ideas. Believe> > me, given where your ideas are, it will be best for you in the

long> > run. That way we can also continue as good friends who simply and> > respectfully agree to disagree.> >> > Best wishes,> >> > Thor> >> >

> > SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino@>> > wrote:> > >> > > *My dear Thor,*> > > **

> > > *It is not my purpose to go outside SA, but when I have tojustify> > my work I> > > have to explain how it was done. You are aware since the very> > beginning that

> > > for the mundane rectifications other techniques have been> > used...and it> > > seems they have been useful somehow. Now I have two and a half> > years of> > > detailed work to justify. It would not be ethical, and it is

not my> > desire> > > to go out at this stage just due to an emotional disturbance.For> > that I> > > meditate. So I am OK, don't worry. Let the transits cool down.

I am> > sure> > > afterwards reason will prevail.*> > > **> > > *Best wishes,*> > > **> > > *Jorge> > > *> > >> > > On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > > >> > > > My dear Jorge,> > > >> > > > I am just surprised as can be at your off-hand reaction to our> > dear> > > > .

> > > >> > > > I founded this list in November 2000 and based on the key idea> > that> > > > we would apply SA in the mundane sphere. This was the mainidea

> > for> > > > the list. Hence it was named the Systems' Approach to Mundane> > Vedic> > > > Astrology - or SAMVA for short. I operated this list until> > December

> > > > 2004, when I for professional reasons needed to lighten myload.> > > >> > > > Please recall that when I asked you to accept to take over as> > > > owner/moderator of this list in December 2004, I did so in the

> > > > sincere understanding and belief that you would maintain thiskey> > > > focus of the list.> > > >> > > > To my disappointment you have increasingly begun to introduce

non-> > SA> > > > elements into the discussion. The work on the SAMVA USA charthad> > > > nothing to do with that gradual change in your approach, itbegan> > > > much earlier. The work on the SAMVA USA chart however brought

out> > the> > > > analytical underpinnings you use more clearly - and they arenot> > SA!> > > > has shown you enormous latitude with these

> > ideas.> > > > However, recently the things just seem to be coming to ahead. You> > > > have become insistent on your own ideas and interpretationsover> > > > those of , even when he has offered you his

> > > > guidance. For those of us who follow SA it is not tenablethat an> > SA> > > > list is operated in this way. He is the teacher of SA that wehave> > > > gathered here to learn from. We can learn from each other in

> > applying> > > > SA, but not when we go off into other directions. That just> > creates> > > > confusion.> > > >> > > > If it is your intention to continue in non-SA direction, as

your> > 200%> > > > and 300% statements indicate, you should do the honorablething> > and> > > > start your own list. I am sure many will want to participate

with> > you> > > > if you decide to do that. At the same time, you should then> > restore> > > > ownership of SAMVA list to me and I will continue with it as> > before

> > > > for the continuing benefit of SA astrologers.> > > >> > > > Let me just close by saying that I am saddened by the present> > > > situation as I have really liked our interaction on and off

the> > list.> > > > However, as the situation has come to a head with regard tothe> > > > purpose of this list, I just hope we can resolve thissituation> > in a

> > > > good way for everybodies benefit.> > > >> > > > With my sincere best wishes> > > > for your continued success> > > > and that of SAMVA,

> > > >> > > > Thor> > > >> > > > SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino@>

> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > My dear Professor,> > > > >> > > > > as you know, all this discussion started with theevaluation of

> > the> > > > SAMVA US> > > > > chart and the US rectified chart. I have to explain to thegroup> > > > why my 300%> > > > > beliefs go the 1776 US chart and that implies the

explanation> > of my> > > > use of> > > > > FMPs in D-charts.> > > > >> > > > > As you have said before, SAMVA and SATVA are two different

> > > > entities. This is> > > > > already the second time that you loose your temper with me> > without> > > > any> > > > > reason. If you feel that you should leave the list, it is

up to> > > > you. I would> > > > > prefer that you stay with us, but I don't want to disturbyour> > wish.> > > > >> > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > >> > > > > Jorge> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@> wrote:> > > > > >

> > > > > >  **> > > > > > Hello dear Mr. Jorge,> > > > > >> > > > > > I am not referring to your last answer to SG. Butbringing in

> > > > one after> > > > > > the other non-SA concepts in discussions on a list set upfor> > > > discussions on> > > > > > SA is not appropriate.

> > > > > >> > > > > > I do not want interpolations and inclusions of anymeanings> > > > ascribed to SA> > > > > > concepts which are not in line with SA principles. I do

not> > > > impose myself on> > > > > > others. Those who want to follow other than SA principles> > they> > > > are welcome> > > > > > to do so off list or on other list.

> > > > > >> > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >

> > > > > > -> > > > > > ** Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino@>> > > > > > *To:*

SAMVA > > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:24 PM> > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts> > > > > >> > > > > >

> > > > > > My dear Professor,> > > > > >> > > > > > I do not see what kind of confusion may happen with mylast> > > > answer to Mr.

> > > > > > Sadasivan:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Sadasivan,> > > > > >> > > > > > In my opinion, your understanding is correct.

> > > > > >> > > > > > First priority goes always to the role played by the FMPsin> > D1,> > > > but for> > > > > > any area of life a complete analysis requires that we look

> > > > carefully to the> > > > > > corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of bothcharts.> > > > > >> > > > > > But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.

> > > > > >> > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > >> > > > > > Jorge> > > > > >> > > > > >

> > > > > >> > > > > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@ >> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The subject being discussed in not as per SA and just> > creating> > > > > > > confusion. It> > > > > > > would be better if this and other non-SA concepts, if

> > > > necessary, are> > > > > > > discussed off list. As is evident from the name of the> > group it> > > > is for> > > > > > > discussing Systems' Approach and if you want to discuss

non> > SA> > > > concepts> > > > > > > better open a new group or change the name of the list> > (group).> > > > I am> > > > > > > sorry I

> > > > > > > have to say so. Or if you want to continue it here andlike> > > > this, then I> > > > > > > may> > > > > > > leave the group.

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > " SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN " <sadasivan_g@>> > > > > > > <SAMVA >

> > > > > > > Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PM> > > > > > > Re: Re: US rectified chart, Prediction> > > > Fulfilled> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > | Dear Jorge,> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | >From the example , I can understand that if

> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if in> > > > > > > | D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM .In

> > > > > > > | other words Jupiter is a FM as far as Marriage> > > > > > > | matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter> > > > > > > | transits the 7th house or the 7th lord Saturn

> > > > > > > | natally , we can expect friction in married life> > > > > > > | ? AM I correct?> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa Jup

> > > > > > > | is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or 5th> > > > > > > | house then also 5th house sign suffers.> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | Kindly revert.

> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | Sadasivan> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | --- Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino@> wrote:

> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | > Dear Sally,> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > The examples given were just regarding US rectifed

> > > > > > > | > chart, where Jupiter is> > > > > > > | > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events under> > > > > > > | > analysis were mainly

> > > > > > > | > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of Jupiter as> > > > > > > | > FMP was played in> > > > > > > | > almost all important dates strongly connected with

> > > > > > > | > war.> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > In the next example, this lady lost her father on> > > > > > > | > May 16, 1990, and her

> > > > > > > | > mother on September 7, 2000.> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > Lady lost parents;

> > > > > > > | > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST> > > > > > > | > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord> > > > > > > | > ================================================> > > > > > > | > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa

> > > > > > > | > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke> > > > > > > | > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke> > > > > > > | > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra

> > > > > > > | > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa> > > > > > > | > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa> > > > > > > | > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo

> > > > > > > | > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve> > > > > > > | > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo> > > > > > > | > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me

> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982> > > > > > > | > beats> > > > > > > | > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM

> > > > > > > | > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi> > > > > > > | > Rashi Chart> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > |*******************************************************

> > > > > > > | > ** 9 * * 7> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *10* * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * SAR13:46* * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * JUR07:15 * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA> > > > > > > | > 19:43*> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** * *> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *11 * 5 MO 06:46

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** * *> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *12* * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > *ME 09:17 * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** 1 * * 3> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > |*******************************************************> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > Dwadasamsha> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > |*******************************************************> > > > > > > | > ** 3 * * 1> > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > | > *4 * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * ME * RA *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * AS * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * 2 SU * 12

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * SAR * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *5 * 11> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *6 * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > *VE * 8 * 10 JUR

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * MO * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * MA * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * KE * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** 7 * * 9

> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > |*******************************************************> > > > > > > | > The D-chart related with parents and losses is D-12,

> > > > > > > | > where Jupiter is the> > > > > > > | > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both dates,> > > > > > > | > we can see a close

> > > > > > > | > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the> > > > > > > | > significators.> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit

> > > > > > > | > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house> > > > > > > | > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting MEP4 (MT> > > > > > > | > house of Saturn), and

> > > > > > > | > natal retrograde Saturn.> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA,> > > > > > > | > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,

> > > > > > > | > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3> > > > > > > | > (losses to mother) and MEP11,> > > > > > > | > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly aspecting

> > > > > > > | > transit Saturn, L4> > > > > > > | > (mother).> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the

> > > > > > > | > rectified lagna of US chart,> > > > > > > | > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > Best wishes,

> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > Jorge> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234@>

> > > > > > > | > wrote:> > > > > > > | > >> > > > > > > | > > I have been looking to many charts and transits> > > > > > > | > in the last two and a

> > > > > > > | > > > half years as you know. Many times I have seen> > > > > > > | > the FMPs in the respective> > > > > > > | > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or other

> > > > > > > | > significators for some> > > > > > > | > > > negative events concerning those houses.> > > > > > > | > >> > > > > > > | > >

> > > > > > > | > >> > > > > > > | > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you do> > > > > > > | > see the FMs of D-charts

> > > > > > > | > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to ask,> > > > > > > | > is it regarding the D> > > > > > > | > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just

> > > > > > > | > simply that the planet acts> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | === message truncated ===> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |> > > > > > >> > > >

> >____________________> > > > ______________> > > > > > >> > > > > > > | No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

> > > > > > > | with Mail for Mobile. Get started.> > > > > > > | http://mobile./mail> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |

[Guest guest]

Hello dear Sadasivan,

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

On a list like SAMVA, which is dedicated to the application of SA in

the mundane sphere, is the final arbiter of what

is the correct technique. The issue is not about dogma but about

having his wise guidance. Rest assured that the scientific approach

is the one we pursue on SAMVA. Please read the message replies by

on this list before he left for his view on the

matter.

 

Let us now all move forward - with Jorge still in our midst -- and

with a view to all the predictions made.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

 

 

SAMVA , SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN

<sadasivan_g wrote:

>

> My dear Thor,

>

> Just now I opened my mail when to my surprise

> I happen to see a plethora of emails on the

> topic unncessarily strtching like a Chewing gum.

>

>

> Kindly recall when Jorge had analysed the Bomb

> blast at Mumbai I had written to him that

> FMs, FBs etc cannot be analysed like Natal

> charts . Prof Chaudry replied to me saying that

> SATVA and SAmva ARE two diff entities and SAMVA

> members are allowed to follow Non SA rules to

> some extent. Prof's anouncement is not the

> point here. The point is

>

> 1) Why make a fuss if Jorge's analysis is

> right ? I also changed my views after seeing

> Jorge's analysis over a period of time. Sally

> also endorses Jorge's view .Are they not SA

> astrologers ? Astrology is not a static science.

> Every edition of SA book is coming out with a

> new concept .

>

> 2) Is one ( I mean any one ) so dogmatic about

> one's findings that new findings cannot take

> place at all ?

>

> 3) Listen to Jorge . We need not accept it if

> it is of no use . Is there any problem in

> accepting the same if he is right ?

>

> 4) Astrology is an evolving science. Many famous

> astrologer's students have come out with ideas

> and written books . The list is plenty . That

> is not the intention here .

>

> 5) I have great respect for you and Jorge .

> yOU ARE POWERFUL BRAND AMBASSADORS. Jorge has

> devoted his life to astrology. eVEN BEFORE

> LISTENING TO HIM, if we jump the gun and

> conclude if he is wrong then I don't have any

> answer.

>

> I personally feel that a mountain is made out

> of a mole hill . I PERSONALLY FEEL BAD FOR

> WHATEVER HAPPENED . Let us forget the past and

> move on .

>

> Sadasivan

>

> --- cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> > My dear Jorge,

> >

> > I am just surprised as can be at your off-hand

> > reaction to our dear

> > .

> >

> > I founded this list in November 2000 and based on

> > the key idea that

> > we would apply SA in the mundane sphere. This was

> > the main idea for

> > the list. Hence it was named the Systems' Approach

> > to Mundane Vedic

> > Astrology - or SAMVA for short. I operated this list

> > until December

> > 2004, when I for professional reasons needed to

> > lighten my load.

> >

> > Please recall that when I asked you to accept to

> > take over as

> > owner/moderator of this list in December 2004, I did

> > so in the

> > sincere understanding and belief that you would

> > maintain this key

> > focus of the list.

> >

> > To my disappointment you have increasingly begun to

> > introduce non-SA

> > elements into the discussion. The work on the SAMVA

> > USA chart had

> > nothing to do with that gradual change in your

> > approach, it began

> > much earlier. The work on the SAMVA USA chart

> > however brought out the

> > analytical underpinnings you use more clearly - and

> > they are not SA!

> > has shown you enormous latitude

> > with these ideas.

> > However, recently the things just seem to be coming

> > to a head. You

> > have become insistent on your own ideas and

> > interpretations over

> > those of , even when he has

> > offered you his

> > guidance. For those of us who follow SA it is not

> > tenable that an SA

> > list is operated in this way. He is the teacher of

> > SA that we have

> > gathered here to learn from. We can learn from each

> > other in applying

> > SA, but not when we go off into other directions.

> > That just creates

> > confusion.

> >

> > If it is your intention to continue in non-SA

> > direction, as your 200%

> > and 300% statements indicate, you should do the

> > honorable thing and

> > start your own list. I am sure many will want to

> > participate with you

> > if you decide to do that. At the same time, you

> > should then restore

> > ownership of SAMVA list to me and I will continue

> > with it as before

> > for the continuing benefit of SA astrologers.

> >

> > Let me just close by saying that I am saddened by

> > the present

> > situation as I have really liked our interaction on

> > and off the list.

> > However, as the situation has come to a head with

> > regard to the

> > purpose of this list, I just hope we can resolve

> > this situation in a

> > good way for everybodies benefit.

> >

> > With my sincere best wishes

> > for your continued success

> > and that of SAMVA,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino "

> > <jorge.angelino@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > My dear Professor,

> > >

> > > as you know, all this discussion started with the

> > evaluation of the

> > SAMVA US

> > > chart and the US rectified chart. I have to

> > explain to the group

> > why my 300%

> > > beliefs go the 1776 US chart and that implies the

> > explanation of my

> > use of

> > > FMPs in D-charts.

> > >

> > > As you have said before, SAMVA and SATVA are two

> > different

> > entities. This is

> > > already the second time that you loose your temper

> > with me without

> > any

> > > reason. If you feel that you should leave the

> > list, it is up to

> > you. I would

> > > prefer that you stay with us, but I don't want to

> > disturb your wish.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Jorge

> > >

> > >

> > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >  **

> > > > Hello dear Mr. Jorge,

> > > >

> > > > I am not referring to your last answer to SG.

> > But bringing in

> > one after

> > > > the other non-SA concepts in discussions on a

> > list set up for

> > discussions on

> > > > SA is not appropriate.

> > > >

> > > > I do not want interpolations and inclusions of

> > any meanings

> > ascribed to SA

> > > > concepts which are not in line with SA

> > principles. I do not

> > impose myself on

> > > > others. Those who want to follow other than SA

> > principles they

> > are welcome

> > > > to do so off list or on other list.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > ** Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino@>

> > > > *To:* SAMVA

> > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:24 PM

> > > > *Subject:* Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > My dear Professor,

> > > >

> > > > I do not see what kind of confusion may happen

> > with my last

> > answer to Mr.

> > > > Sadasivan:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sadasivan,

> > > >

> > > > In my opinion, your understanding is correct.

> > > >

> > > > First priority goes always to the role played by

> > the FMPs in D1,

> > but for

> > > > any area of life a complete analysis requires

> > that we look

> > carefully to the

> > > > corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of

> > both charts.

> > > >

> > > > But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > Jorge

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@ >

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,

> > > > >

> > > > > The subject being discussed in not as per SA

> > and just creating

> > > > > confusion. It

> > > > > would be better if this and other non-SA

> > concepts, if

> > necessary, are

> > > > > discussed off list. As is evident from the

> > name of the group it

> > is for

> > > > > discussing Systems' Approach and if you want

> > to discuss non SA

> > concepts

> > > > > better open a new group or change the name of

> > the list (group).

> > I am

> > > > > sorry I

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

____________________

______________

> TV dinner still cooling?

> Check out " Tonight's Picks " on TV.

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>

[Guest guest]

Dear Thor,

 

I feel the best way of bringing Prof back is

by proving Jorge wrong so that he himself would

bring Prof back .Kindly shoot out some charts

personal and explain the interpn of divisionl

charts . We could have debated by having an

healthy argument on Divisional Charts . IT IS

INDEED A CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT . PLS DO NOT

MISTAKE ME.

 

Thanks

 

Sadasivan

--- cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

 

> Hello dear Sadasivan,

>

> Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

>

> On a list like SAMVA, which is dedicated to the

> application of SA in

> the mundane sphere, is the final

> arbiter of what

> is the correct technique. The issue is not about

> dogma but about

> having his wise guidance. Rest assured that the

> scientific approach

> is the one we pursue on SAMVA. Please read the

> message replies by

> on this list before he left for

> his view on the

> matter.

>

> Let us now all move forward - with Jorge still in

> our midst -- and

> with a view to all the predictions made.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

>

>

> SAMVA , SADASIVAN

> GOPALAKRISHNAN

> <sadasivan_g wrote:

> >

> > My dear Thor,

> >

> > Just now I opened my mail when to my

> surprise

> > I happen to see a plethora of emails on

> the

> > topic unncessarily strtching like a Chewing

> gum.

> >

> >

> > Kindly recall when Jorge had analysed the

> Bomb

> > blast at Mumbai I had written to him that

> > FMs, FBs etc cannot be analysed like Natal

> > charts . Prof Chaudry replied to me saying

> that

> > SATVA and SAmva ARE two diff entities and

> SAMVA

> > members are allowed to follow Non SA rules

> to

> > some extent. Prof's anouncement is not the

> > point here. The point is

> >

> > 1) Why make a fuss if Jorge's analysis is

> > right ? I also changed my views after

> seeing

> > Jorge's analysis over a period of time.

> Sally

> > also endorses Jorge's view .Are they not SA

> > astrologers ? Astrology is not a static

> science.

> > Every edition of SA book is coming out

> with a

> > new concept .

> >

> > 2) Is one ( I mean any one ) so dogmatic

> about

> > one's findings that new findings cannot

> take

> > place at all ?

> >

> > 3) Listen to Jorge . We need not accept it

> if

> > it is of no use . Is there any problem in

> > accepting the same if he is right ?

> >

> > 4) Astrology is an evolving science. Many

> famous

> > astrologer's students have come out with

> ideas

> > and written books . The list is plenty .

> That

> > is not the intention here .

> >

> > 5) I have great respect for you and Jorge

> .

> > yOU ARE POWERFUL BRAND AMBASSADORS. Jorge has

> > devoted his life to astrology. eVEN BEFORE

> > LISTENING TO HIM, if we jump the gun and

> > conclude if he is wrong then I don't have

> any

> > answer.

> >

> > I personally feel that a mountain is made

> out

> > of a mole hill . I PERSONALLY FEEL BAD FOR

> > WHATEVER HAPPENED . Let us forget the past

> and

> > move on .

> >

> > Sadasivan

> >

> > --- cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

> >

> > > My dear Jorge,

> > >

> > > I am just surprised as can be at your off-hand

> > > reaction to our dear

> > > .

> > >

> > > I founded this list in November 2000 and based

> on

> > > the key idea that

> > > we would apply SA in the mundane sphere. This

> was

> > > the main idea for

> > > the list. Hence it was named the Systems'

> Approach

> > > to Mundane Vedic

> > > Astrology - or SAMVA for short. I operated this

> list

> > > until December

> > > 2004, when I for professional reasons needed to

> > > lighten my load.

> > >

> > > Please recall that when I asked you to accept to

> > > take over as

> > > owner/moderator of this list in December 2004, I

> did

> > > so in the

> > > sincere understanding and belief that you would

> > > maintain this key

> > > focus of the list.

> > >

> > > To my disappointment you have increasingly begun

> to

> > > introduce non-SA

> > > elements into the discussion. The work on the

> SAMVA

> > > USA chart had

> > > nothing to do with that gradual change in your

> > > approach, it began

> > > much earlier. The work on the SAMVA USA chart

> > > however brought out the

> > > analytical underpinnings you use more clearly -

> and

> > > they are not SA!

> > > has shown you enormous

> latitude

> > > with these ideas.

> > > However, recently the things just seem to be

> coming

> > > to a head. You

> > > have become insistent on your own ideas and

> > > interpretations over

> > > those of , even when he has

> > > offered you his

> > > guidance. For those of us who follow SA it is

> not

> > > tenable that an SA

> > > list is operated in this way. He is the teacher

> of

> > > SA that we have

> > > gathered here to learn from. We can learn from

> each

> > > other in applying

> > > SA, but not when we go off into other

> directions.

> > > That just creates

> > > confusion.

> > >

> > > If it is your intention to continue in non-SA

> > > direction, as your 200%

> > > and 300% statements indicate, you should do the

> > > honorable thing and

> > > start your own list. I am sure many will want to

> > > participate with you

> > > if you decide to do that. At the same time, you

> > > should then restore

> > > ownership of SAMVA list to me and I will

> continue

> > > with it as before

> > > for the continuing benefit of SA astrologers.

> > >

> > > Let me just close by saying that I am saddened

> by

> > > the present

> > > situation as I have really liked our interaction

> on

> > > and off the list.

> > > However, as the situation has come to a head

> with

> > > regard to the

> > > purpose of this list, I just hope we can resolve

> > > this situation in a

> > > good way for everybodies benefit.

> > >

> > > With my sincere best wishes

> > > for your continued success

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

______________________________\

____

Music Unlimited

Access over 1 million songs.

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sadasivan,

 

Divisional charts are an important element in the reading of

planetary strength in a chart. Members are free to analyse mundane

charts with a special focus on the implications of the various

divisional charts. has written a whole book on the

subject, so there is plenty of information at our disposal.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

 

SAMVA , SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN

<sadasivan_g wrote:

>

> Dear Thor,

>

> I feel the best way of bringing Prof back is

> by proving Jorge wrong so that he himself would

> bring Prof back .Kindly shoot out some charts

> personal and explain the interpn of divisionl

> charts . We could have debated by having an

> healthy argument on Divisional Charts . IT IS

> INDEED A CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT . PLS DO NOT

> MISTAKE ME.

>

> Thanks

>

> Sadasivan

> --- cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> > Hello dear Sadasivan,

> >

> > Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

> >

> > On a list like SAMVA, which is dedicated to the

> > application of SA in

> > the mundane sphere, is the final

> > arbiter of what

> > is the correct technique. The issue is not about

> > dogma but about

> > having his wise guidance. Rest assured that the

> > scientific approach

> > is the one we pursue on SAMVA. Please read the

> > message replies by

> > on this list before he left for

> > his view on the

> > matter.

> >

> > Let us now all move forward - with Jorge still in

> > our midst -- and

> > with a view to all the predictions made.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> >

> >

> > SAMVA , SADASIVAN

> > GOPALAKRISHNAN

> > <sadasivan_g@> wrote:

> > >

> > > My dear Thor,

> > >

> > > Just now I opened my mail when to my

> > surprise

> > > I happen to see a plethora of emails on

> > the

> > > topic unncessarily strtching like a Chewing

> > gum.

> > >

> > >

> > > Kindly recall when Jorge had analysed the

> > Bomb

> > > blast at Mumbai I had written to him that

> > > FMs, FBs etc cannot be analysed like Natal

> > > charts . Prof Chaudry replied to me saying

> > that

> > > SATVA and SAmva ARE two diff entities and

> > SAMVA

> > > members are allowed to follow Non SA rules

> > to

> > > some extent. Prof's anouncement is not the

> > > point here. The point is

> > >

> > > 1) Why make a fuss if Jorge's analysis is

> > > right ? I also changed my views after

> > seeing

> > > Jorge's analysis over a period of time.

> > Sally

> > > also endorses Jorge's view .Are they not SA

> > > astrologers ? Astrology is not a static

> > science.

> > > Every edition of SA book is coming out

> > with a

> > > new concept .

> > >

> > > 2) Is one ( I mean any one ) so dogmatic

> > about

> > > one's findings that new findings cannot

> > take

> > > place at all ?

> > >

> > > 3) Listen to Jorge . We need not accept it

> > if

> > > it is of no use . Is there any problem in

> > > accepting the same if he is right ?

> > >

> > > 4) Astrology is an evolving science. Many

> > famous

> > > astrologer's students have come out with

> > ideas

> > > and written books . The list is plenty .

> > That

> > > is not the intention here .

> > >

> > > 5) I have great respect for you and Jorge

> > .

> > > yOU ARE POWERFUL BRAND AMBASSADORS. Jorge has

> > > devoted his life to astrology. eVEN BEFORE

> > > LISTENING TO HIM, if we jump the gun and

> > > conclude if he is wrong then I don't have

> > any

> > > answer.

> > >

> > > I personally feel that a mountain is made

> > out

> > > of a mole hill . I PERSONALLY FEEL BAD FOR

> > > WHATEVER HAPPENED . Let us forget the past

> > and

> > > move on .

> > >

> > > Sadasivan

> > >

> > > --- cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > My dear Jorge,

> > > >

> > > > I am just surprised as can be at your off-hand

> > > > reaction to our dear

> > > > .

> > > >

> > > > I founded this list in November 2000 and based

> > on

> > > > the key idea that

> > > > we would apply SA in the mundane sphere. This

> > was

> > > > the main idea for

> > > > the list. Hence it was named the Systems'

> > Approach

> > > > to Mundane Vedic

> > > > Astrology - or SAMVA for short. I operated this

> > list

> > > > until December

> > > > 2004, when I for professional reasons needed to

> > > > lighten my load.

> > > >

> > > > Please recall that when I asked you to accept to

> > > > take over as

> > > > owner/moderator of this list in December 2004, I

> > did

> > > > so in the

> > > > sincere understanding and belief that you would

> > > > maintain this key

> > > > focus of the list.

> > > >

> > > > To my disappointment you have increasingly begun

> > to

> > > > introduce non-SA

> > > > elements into the discussion. The work on the

> > SAMVA

> > > > USA chart had

> > > > nothing to do with that gradual change in your

> > > > approach, it began

> > > > much earlier. The work on the SAMVA USA chart

> > > > however brought out the

> > > > analytical underpinnings you use more clearly -

> > and

> > > > they are not SA!

> > > > has shown you enormous

> > latitude

> > > > with these ideas.

> > > > However, recently the things just seem to be

> > coming

> > > > to a head. You

> > > > have become insistent on your own ideas and

> > > > interpretations over

> > > > those of , even when he has

> > > > offered you his

> > > > guidance. For those of us who follow SA it is

> > not

> > > > tenable that an SA

> > > > list is operated in this way. He is the teacher

> > of

> > > > SA that we have

> > > > gathered here to learn from. We can learn from

> > each

> > > > other in applying

> > > > SA, but not when we go off into other

> > directions.

> > > > That just creates

> > > > confusion.

> > > >

> > > > If it is your intention to continue in non-SA

> > > > direction, as your 200%

> > > > and 300% statements indicate, you should do the

> > > > honorable thing and

> > > > start your own list. I am sure many will want to

> > > > participate with you

> > > > if you decide to do that. At the same time, you

> > > > should then restore

> > > > ownership of SAMVA list to me and I will

> > continue

> > > > with it as before

> > > > for the continuing benefit of SA astrologers.

> > > >

> > > > Let me just close by saying that I am saddened

> > by

> > > > the present

> > > > situation as I have really liked our interaction

> > on

> > > > and off the list.

> > > > However, as the situation has come to a head

> > with

> > > > regard to the

> > > > purpose of this list, I just hope we can resolve

> > > > this situation in a

> > > > good way for everybodies benefit.

> > > >

> > > > With my sincere best wishes

> > > > for your continued success

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

____________________

______________

> Music Unlimited

> Access over 1 million songs.

> http://music./unlimited

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadasivan,

 

Be happy. Don't worry! Life is bliss.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jorge

On 2/15/07, SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN <sadasivan_g wrote:

Dear Jorge,I am really pained to note the happenings. I donot blame you . I humbly request you to

forget whatever happened .ThanksSadasivan--- Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino wrote:> Thanks my dear FRIEND.> Best wishes,

> Jorge>>> On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:> >> > My dear Jorge,> >> > Thank you for the magnimonious act. You have yet

> again shown what a> > great person you are. We would be honored to keep> your company. Let> > me take the opportunity to thank you for all that> you have done for> > SAMVA. You are a hero in our ranks!

> >> > Best wishes,> >> > Thor> >> > PS now we just have to get > back! > >> >> >

SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " > <jorge.angelino> > wrote:> > >> > > My dear Thor.> > > You just became the owner again.> > > I hope I can stay as member.

> > > Best wishes,> > > Jorge> > >> > >> > > On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:> > > >> > > > My dear Jorge,

> > > >> > > > This matter of who runs the SAMVA list is not> about you. SAMVA> > list> > > > is not the culmination of your work. The work> you have done is a

> > self-> > > > standing contribution. It is based on non-SA> ideas and techniques.> > > > This only became clear to me after you had> assumed ownership.> > Moving

> > > > your work to another list does not in any way> compromise your> > > > accomplishment and you can still continue with> it outside of> > SAMVA.> > > > It would actually be a better place for it as

> it is not based on> > SA.> > > > As I also I mentioned, many list members like> you and will follow> > you> > > > there. There is no problem with that.

> > > >> > > > The issue is simply this. You are not using SA> anymore. You have> > put> > > > your own importance above that of Professor> Choudhry. This is not

> > > > just a disturbance, it is a culmination of a> intellectual> > > > conflict that has been slowly brewing for some> time. All your> > > > postings are somehow with this new idea or

> twist. Just now it was> > > > retrograde Mercury which explains the tension.> That is not SA. You> > > > may not see this clearly, but your approach> has no place in SA.

> > > >> > > > The honorable thing now is for you to stand> down as> > owner/moderator> > > > and allow me to continue with the list in the> proper way. You are

> > not> > > > being asked to run the list against your own> beliefs, nor should> > you> > > > or anybody have to do such a thing. That would> be wrong.

> > > >> > > > So, please think about my offer. We can move> your files to the new> > > > list as soon as you are ready to open it. This> will be best for> > you

> > > > and SAMVA. This list is only intended for SA.> You do not have> > > > ownership of SA or SA in the Mundane Sphere.> > > has> > > > now made good on his threat to leave the list

> if you continued the> > > > way you have. You ignore that as some temper> tantrum. I don´t> > see it> > > > that way. He has given up on your approach. In> view of what has

> > been> > > > taking place for a long time, and now has come> to a head today,> > you> > > > are not doing the right thing by proposing to> continue after all

> > of> > > > us just cool down. Temper has nothing to do> with. The issue just> > came> > > > to a head: this is a fundamental difference of> oppinion on

> > > > techniques. I hope you find clarity to do the> right and honorable> > > > thing and step down and create a new forum for> your ideas. Believe> > > > me, given where your ideas are, it will be

> best for you in the> > long> > > > run. That way we can also continue as good> friends who simply and> > > > respectfully agree to disagree.> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,> > > >> > > > Thor> > > >> > > >> > > > SAMVA

, " Jorge Angelino " > <jorge.angelino@>> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > *My dear Thor,*> > > > > **> > > > > *It is not my purpose to go outside SA, but

> when I have to> > justify> > > > my work I> > > > > have to explain how it was done. You are> aware since the very> > > > beginning that> > > > > for the mundane rectifications other

> techniques have been> > > > used...and it> > > > > seems they have been useful somehow. Now I> have two and a half> > > > years of> > > > > detailed work to justify. It would not be

> ethical, and it is> > not my> > > > desire> > > > > to go out at this stage just due to an> emotional disturbance.> > For> > > > that I

> > > > > meditate. So I am OK, don't worry. Let the> transits cool down.> > I am> > > > sure> > > > > afterwards reason will prevail.*> > > > > **

> > > > > *Best wishes,*> > > > > **> > > > > *Jorge> > > > > *> > > > >> > > > > On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > > > > >> > > > > > My dear Jorge,> > > > > >> > > > > > I am just surprised as can be at your> off-hand reaction to our

> > > > dear> > > > > > .> > > > > >> > > > > > I founded this list in November 2000 and> based on the key idea> > > > that

> > > > > > we would apply SA in the mundane sphere.> This was the main> > idea> > > > for> > > > > > the list. Hence it was named the Systems'

> Approach to Mundane> > > > Vedic> > > > > > Astrology - or SAMVA for short. I operated> this list until> > > > December> > > > > > 2004, when I for professional reasons

> needed to lighten my> > load.> > > > > >>=== message truncated ===

The fish are biting.Get more visitors on your site using Search Marketing.http://searchmarketing./arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php

 

[Guest guest]

dear thor and jorge....

 

i have been offfline for some days and was quite surprised to read these recent exchanges.

 

fortunately, it appears a good resolution has taken place.

 

we have all been blessed by having the wisdom and guidance of our dear professor.

 

i hope he will continue to share his time and efforts with us, and that we can remain together as friends and family.

 

best wishes,

 

david hawthorne

 

 

 

-

cosmologer

SAMVA

Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:35 PM

Re:FMs of Divl charts

My dear Jorge,Thank you for the magnimonious act. You have yet again shown what a great person you are. We would be honored to keep your company. Let me take the opportunity to thank you for all that you have done for SAMVA. You are a hero in our ranks!Best wishes,ThorPS now we just have to get back! :)SAMVA , "Jorge Angelino" <jorge.angelino wrote:>> My dear Thor.> You just became the owner again.> I hope I can stay as member.> Best wishes,> Jorge> > > On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:> >> > My dear Jorge,> >> > This matter of who runs the SAMVA list is not about you. SAMVA list> > is not the culmination of your work. The work you have done is a self-> > standing contribution. It is based on non-SA ideas and techniques.> > This only became clear to me after you had assumed ownership. Moving> > your work to another list does not in any way compromise your> > accomplishment and you can still continue with it outside of SAMVA.> > It would actually be a better place for it as it is not based on SA.> > As I also I mentioned, many list members like you and will follow you> > there. There is no problem with that.> >> > The issue is simply this. You are not using SA anymore. You have put> > your own importance above that of . This is not> > just a disturbance, it is a culmination of a intellectual> > conflict that has been slowly brewing for some time. All your> > postings are somehow with this new idea or twist. Just now it was> > retrograde Mercury which explains the tension. That is not SA. You> > may not see this clearly, but your approach has no place in SA.> >> > The honorable thing now is for you to stand down as owner/moderator> > and allow me to continue with the list in the proper way. You are not> > being asked to run the list against your own beliefs, nor should you> > or anybody have to do such a thing. That would be wrong.> >> > So, please think about my offer. We can move your files to the new> > list as soon as you are ready to open it. This will be best for you> > and SAMVA. This list is only intended for SA. You do not have> > ownership of SA or SA in the Mundane Sphere. has> > now made good on his threat to leave the list if you continued the> > way you have. You ignore that as some temper tantrum. I don´t see it> > that way. He has given up on your approach. In view of what has been> > taking place for a long time, and now has come to a head today, you> > are not doing the right thing by proposing to continue after all of> > us just cool down. Temper has nothing to do with. The issue just came> > to a head: this is a fundamental difference of oppinion on> > techniques. I hope you find clarity to do the right and honorable> > thing and step down and create a new forum for your ideas. Believe> > me, given where your ideas are, it will be best for you in the long> > run. That way we can also continue as good friends who simply and> > respectfully agree to disagree.> >> > Best wishes,> >> > Thor> >> >> > SAMVA , "Jorge Angelino" <jorge.angelino@>> > wrote:> > >> > > *My dear Thor,*> > > **> > > *It is not my purpose to go outside SA, but when I have to justify> > my work I> > > have to explain how it was done. You are aware since the very> > beginning that> > > for the mundane rectifications other techniques have been> > used...and it> > > seems they have been useful somehow. Now I have two and a half> > years of> > > detailed work to justify. It would not be ethical, and it is not my> > desire> > > to go out at this stage just due to an emotional disturbance. For> > that I> > > meditate. So I am OK, don't worry. Let the transits cool down. I am> > sure> > > afterwards reason will prevail.*> > > **> > > *Best wishes,*> > > **> > > *Jorge> > > *> > >> > > On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:> > > >> > > > My dear Jorge,> > > >> > > > I am just surprised as can be at your off-hand reaction to our> > dear> > > > .> > > >> > > > I founded this list in November 2000 and based on the key idea> > that> > > > we would apply SA in the mundane sphere. This was the main idea> > for> > > > the list. Hence it was named the Systems' Approach to Mundane> > Vedic> > > > Astrology - or SAMVA for short. I operated this list until> > December> > > > 2004, when I for professional reasons needed to lighten my load.> > > >> > > > Please recall that when I asked you to accept to take over as> > > > owner/moderator of this list in December 2004, I did so in the> > > > sincere understanding and belief that you would maintain this key> > > > focus of the list.> > > >> > > > To my disappointment you have increasingly begun to introduce non-> > SA> > > > elements into the discussion. The work on the SAMVA USA chart had> > > > nothing to do with that gradual change in your approach, it began> > > > much earlier. The work on the SAMVA USA chart however brought out> > the> > > > analytical underpinnings you use more clearly - and they are not> > SA!> > > > has shown you enormous latitude with these> > ideas.> > > > However, recently the things just seem to be coming to a head. You> > > > have become insistent on your own ideas and interpretations over> > > > those of , even when he has offered you his> > > > guidance. For those of us who follow SA it is not tenable that an> > SA> > > > list is operated in this way. He is the teacher of SA that we have> > > > gathered here to learn from. We can learn from each other in> > applying> > > > SA, but not when we go off into other directions. That just> > creates> > > > confusion.> > > >> > > > If it is your intention to continue in non-SA direction, as your> > 200%> > > > and 300% statements indicate, you should do the honorable thing> > and> > > > start your own list. I am sure many will want to participate with> > you> > > > if you decide to do that. At the same time, you should then> > restore> > > > ownership of SAMVA list to me and I will continue with it as> > before> > > > for the continuing benefit of SA astrologers.> > > >> > > > Let me just close by saying that I am saddened by the present> > > > situation as I have really liked our interaction on and off the> > list.> > > > However, as the situation has come to a head with regard to the> > > > purpose of this list, I just hope we can resolve this situation> > in a> > > > good way for everybodies benefit.> > > >> > > > With my sincere best wishes> > > > for your continued success> > > > and that of SAMVA,> > > >> > > > Thor> > > >> > > > SAMVA , "Jorge Angelino" <jorge.angelino@>> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > My dear Professor,> > > > >> > > > > as you know, all this discussion started with the evaluation of> > the> > > > SAMVA US> > > > > chart and the US rectified chart. I have to explain to the group> > > > why my 300%> > > > > beliefs go the 1776 US chart and that implies the explanation> > of my> > > > use of> > > > > FMPs in D-charts.> > > > >> > > > > As you have said before, SAMVA and SATVA are two different> > > > entities. This is> > > > > already the second time that you loose your temper with me> > without> > > > any> > > > > reason. If you feel that you should leave the list, it is up to> > > > you. I would> > > > > prefer that you stay with us, but I don't want to disturb your> > wish.> > > > >> > > > > Best wishes,> > > > >> > > > > Jorge> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >  **> > > > > > Hello dear Mr. Jorge,> > > > > >> > > > > > I am not referring to your last answer to SG. But bringing in> > > > one after> > > > > > the other non-SA concepts in discussions on a list set up for> > > > discussions on> > > > > > SA is not appropriate.> > > > > >> > > > > > I do not want interpolations and inclusions of any meanings> > > > ascribed to SA> > > > > > concepts which are not in line with SA principles. I do not> > > > impose myself on> > > > > > others. Those who want to follow other than SA principles> > they> > > > are welcome> > > > > > to do so off list or on other list.> > > > > >> > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > -> > > > > > ** Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino@>> > > > > > *To:* SAMVA > > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:24 PM> > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > My dear Professor,> > > > > >> > > > > > I do not see what kind of confusion may happen with my last> > > > answer to Mr.> > > > > > Sadasivan:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Sadasivan,> > > > > >> > > > > > In my opinion, your understanding is correct.> > > > > >> > > > > > First priority goes always to the role played by the FMPs in> > D1,> > > > but for> > > > > > any area of life a complete analysis requires that we look> > > > carefully to the> > > > > > corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of both charts.> > > > > >> > > > > > But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.> > > > > >> > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > >> > > > > > Jorge> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@ >> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The subject being discussed in not as per SA and just> > creating> > > > > > > confusion. It> > > > > > > would be better if this and other non-SA concepts, if> > > > necessary, are> > > > > > > discussed off list. As is evident from the name of the> > group it> > > > is for> > > > > > > discussing Systems' Approach and if you want to discuss non> > SA> > > > concepts> > > > > > > better open a new group or change the name of the list> > (group).> > > > I am> > > > > > > sorry I> > > > > > > have to say so. Or if you want to continue it here and like> > > > this, then I> > > > > > > may> > > > > > > leave the group.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > -> > > > > > > "SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN" <sadasivan_g@>> > > > > > > <SAMVA >> > > > > > > Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PM> > > > > > > Re: Re: US rectified chart, Prediction> > > > Fulfilled> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > | Dear Jorge,> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | >From the example , I can understand that if> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if in> > > > > > > | D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM .In> > > > > > > | other words Jupiter is a FM as far as Marriage> > > > > > > | matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter> > > > > > > | transits the 7th house or the 7th lord Saturn> > > > > > > | natally , we can expect friction in married life> > > > > > > | ? AM I correct?> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa Jup> > > > > > > | is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or 5th> > > > > > > | house then also 5th house sign suffers.> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | Kindly revert.> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | Sadasivan> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | --- Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino@> wrote:> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | > Dear Sally,> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > The examples given were just regarding US rectifed> > > > > > > | > chart, where Jupiter is> > > > > > > | > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events under> > > > > > > | > analysis were mainly> > > > > > > | > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of Jupiter as> > > > > > > | > FMP was played in> > > > > > > | > almost all important dates strongly connected with> > > > > > > | > war.> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > In the next example, this lady lost her father on> > > > > > > | > May 16, 1990, and her> > > > > > > | > mother on September 7, 2000.> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > Lady lost parents;> > > > > > > | > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST> > > > > > > | > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord> > > > > > > | > ================================================> > > > > > > | > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa> > > > > > > | > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke> > > > > > > | > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke> > > > > > > | > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra> > > > > > > | > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa> > > > > > > | > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa> > > > > > > | > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo> > > > > > > | > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve> > > > > > > | > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo> > > > > > > | > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982> > > > > > > | > beats> > > > > > > | > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM> > > > > > > | > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi> > > > > > > | > Rashi Chart> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | *******************************************************> > > > > > > | > ** 9 * * 7> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *10* * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * SAR13:46* * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * JUR07:15 * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA> > > > > > > | > 19:43*> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** * *> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *11 * 5 MO 06:46> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** * *> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *12* * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > *ME 09:17 * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** 1 * * 3> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | *******************************************************> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > Dwadasamsha> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | *******************************************************> > > > > > > | > ** 3 * * 1> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *4 * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * ME * RA *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * AS * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * 2 SU * 12> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * SAR * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** * *> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *5 * 11> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** * *> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *6 * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > *VE * 8 * 10 JUR> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * MO * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * MA * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * KE * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** 7 * * 9> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | *******************************************************> > > > > > > | > The D-chart related with parents and losses is D-12,> > > > > > > | > where Jupiter is the> > > > > > > | > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both dates,> > > > > > > | > we can see a close> > > > > > > | > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the> > > > > > > | > significators.> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit> > > > > > > | > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house> > > > > > > | > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting MEP4 (MT> > > > > > > | > house of Saturn), and> > > > > > > | > natal retrograde Saturn.> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA,> > > > > > > | > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,> > > > > > > | > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3> > > > > > > | > (losses to mother) and MEP11,> > > > > > > | > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly aspecting> > > > > > > | > transit Saturn, L4> > > > > > > | > (mother).> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the> > > > > > > | > rectified lagna of US chart,> > > > > > > | > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > Best wishes,> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > Jorge> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234@>> > > > > > > | > wrote:> > > > > > > | > >> > > > > > > | > > I have been looking to many charts and transits> > > > > > > | > in the last two and a> > > > > > > | > > > half years as you know. Many times I have seen> > > > > > > | > the FMPs in the respective> > > > > > > | > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or other> > > > > > > | > significators for some> > > > > > > | > > > negative events concerning those houses.> > > > > > > | > >> > > > > > > | > >> > > > > > > | > >> > > > > > > | > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you do> > > > > > > | > see the FMs of D-charts> > > > > > > | > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to ask,> > > > > > > | > is it regarding the D> > > > > > > | > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just> > > > > > > | > simply that the planet acts> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | === message truncated ===> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |> > > > > > >> > > >> > ____________________> > > > ______________> > > > > > >> > > > > > > | No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go> > > > > > > | with Mail for Mobile. Get started.> > > > > > > | http://mobile./mail> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |

[Guest guest]

Dear David,

 

Thank you for all your good wishes.

 

Jai Guru Dev

 

Jorge

On 2/16/07, David Hawthorne <david wrote:

 

 

dear thor and jorge....

 

i have been offfline for some days and was quite surprised to read these recent exchanges.

 

fortunately, it appears a good resolution has taken place.

 

we have all been blessed by having the wisdom and guidance of our dear professor.

 

i hope he will continue to share his time and efforts with us, and that we can remain together as friends and family.

 

best wishes,

 

david hawthorne

 

 

 

-

cosmologer

SAMVA

 

Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:35 PM

Re:FMs of Divl charts

My dear Jorge,Thank you for the magnimonious act. You have yet again shown what a great person you are. We would be honored to keep your company. Let me take the opportunity to thank you for all that you have done for SAMVA. You are a hero in our ranks!Best wishes,ThorPS now we just have to get back!

SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino wrote:>> My dear Thor.> You just became the owner again.> I hope I can stay as member.> Best wishes,

> Jorge> > > On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:> >> > My dear Jorge,> >> > This matter of who runs the SAMVA list is not about you. SAMVA

list> > is not the culmination of your work. The work you have done is a self-> > standing contribution. It is based on non-SA ideas and techniques.> > This only became clear to me after you had assumed ownership. Moving> > your work to another list does not in any way compromise your> > accomplishment and you can still continue with it outside of SAMVA.> > It would actually be a better place for it as it is not based on SA.> > As I also I mentioned, many list members like you and will follow you> > there. There is no problem with that.> >> > The issue is simply this. You are not using SA anymore. You have put> > your own importance above that of . This is not> > just a disturbance, it is a culmination of a intellectual> > conflict that has been slowly brewing for some time. All your

> > postings are somehow with this new idea or twist. Just now it was> > retrograde Mercury which explains the tension. That is not SA. You> > may not see this clearly, but your approach has no place in SA.

> >> > The honorable thing now is for you to stand down as owner/moderator> > and allow me to continue with the list in the proper way. You are not> > being asked to run the list against your own beliefs, nor should you> > or anybody have to do such a thing. That would be wrong.> >> > So, please think about my offer. We can move your files to the new> > list as soon as you are ready to open it. This will be best for you> > and SAMVA. This list is only intended for SA. You do not have> > ownership of SA or SA in the Mundane Sphere. has> > now made good on his threat to leave the list if you continued the

> > way you have. You ignore that as some temper tantrum. I don´t see it> > that way. He has given up on your approach. In view of what has been> > taking place for a long time, and now has come to a head today, you> > are not doing the right thing by proposing to continue after all of> > us just cool down. Temper has nothing to do with. The issue just came> > to a head: this is a fundamental difference of oppinion on

> > techniques. I hope you find clarity to do the right and honorable> > thing and step down and create a new forum for your ideas. Believe> > me, given where your ideas are, it will be best for you in the long> > run. That way we can also continue as good friends who simply and> > respectfully agree to disagree.> >> > Best wishes,> >> > Thor> >> >

> > SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino@>> > wrote:

> > >> > > *My dear Thor,*> > > **> > > *It is not my purpose to go outside SA, but when I have to justify> > my work I> > > have to explain how it was done. You are aware since the very

> > beginning that> > > for the mundane rectifications other techniques have been> > used...and it> > > seems they have been useful somehow. Now I have two and a half> > years of

> > > detailed work to justify. It would not be ethical, and it is not my> > desire> > > to go out at this stage just due to an emotional disturbance. For> > that I

> > > meditate. So I am OK, don't worry. Let the transits cool down. I am> > sure> > > afterwards reason will prevail.*> > > **> > > *Best wishes,*> > > **

> > > *Jorge> > > *> > >> > > On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:> > > >> > > > My dear Jorge,> > > >> > > > I am just surprised as can be at your off-hand reaction to our

> > dear> > > > .> > > >> > > > I founded this list in November 2000 and based on the key idea> > that> > > > we would apply SA in the mundane sphere. This was the main idea> > for> > > > the list. Hence it was named the Systems' Approach to Mundane> > Vedic> > > > Astrology - or SAMVA for short. I operated this list until> > December

> > > > 2004, when I for professional reasons needed to lighten my load.> > > >> > > > Please recall that when I asked you to accept to take over as> > > > owner/moderator of this list in December 2004, I did so in the

> > > > sincere understanding and belief that you would maintain this key> > > > focus of the list.> > > >> > > > To my disappointment you have increasingly begun to introduce non-> > SA> > > > elements into the discussion. The work on the SAMVA USA chart had> > > > nothing to do with that gradual change in your approach, it began> > > > much earlier. The work on the SAMVA USA chart however brought out> > the> > > > analytical underpinnings you use more clearly - and they are not> > SA!> > > > has shown you enormous latitude with these

> > ideas.> > > > However, recently the things just seem to be coming to a head. You> > > > have become insistent on your own ideas and interpretations over> > > > those of , even when he has offered you his

> > > > guidance. For those of us who follow SA it is not tenable that an> > SA> > > > list is operated in this way. He is the teacher of SA that we have> > > > gathered here to learn from. We can learn from each other in

> > applying> > > > SA, but not when we go off into other directions. That just> > creates> > > > confusion.> > > >> > > > If it is your intention to continue in non-SA direction, as your> > 200%> > > > and 300% statements indicate, you should do the honorable thing> > and> > > > start your own list. I am sure many will want to participate

with> > you> > > > if you decide to do that. At the same time, you should then> > restore> > > > ownership of SAMVA list to me and I will continue with it as> > before

> > > > for the continuing benefit of SA astrologers.> > > >> > > > Let me just close by saying that I am saddened by the present> > > > situation as I have really liked our interaction on and off the> > list.> > > > However, as the situation has come to a head with regard to the> > > > purpose of this list, I just hope we can resolve this situation> > in a

> > > > good way for everybodies benefit.> > > >> > > > With my sincere best wishes> > > > for your continued success> > > > and that of SAMVA,

> > > >> > > > Thor> > > >> > > > SAMVA

, " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino@>> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > My dear Professor,> > > > >> > > > > as you know, all this discussion started with the evaluation of> > the> > > > SAMVA US> > > > > chart and the US rectified chart. I have to explain to the group> > > > why my 300%> > > > > beliefs go the 1776 US chart and that implies the explanation> > of my> > > > use of> > > > > FMPs in D-charts.> > > > >> > > > > As you have said before, SAMVA and SATVA are two different

> > > > entities. This is> > > > > already the second time that you loose your temper with me> > without> > > > any> > > > > reason. If you feel that you should leave the list, it is up to> > > > you. I would> > > > > prefer that you stay with us, but I don't want to disturb your> > wish.> > > > >> > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > >> > > > > Jorge> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@> wrote:> > > > > >

> > > > > >  **> > > > > > Hello dear Mr. Jorge,> > > > > >> > > > > > I am not referring to your last answer to SG. But bringing in

> > > > one after> > > > > > the other non-SA concepts in discussions on a list set up for> > > > discussions on> > > > > > SA is not appropriate.

> > > > > >> > > > > > I do not want interpolations and inclusions of any meanings> > > > ascribed to SA> > > > > > concepts which are not in line with SA principles. I do not> > > > impose myself on> > > > > > others. Those who want to follow other than SA principles> > they> > > > are welcome> > > > > > to do so off list or on other list.

> > > > > >> > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >

> > > > > > -> > > > > > ** Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino@>> > > > > > *To:*

SAMVA > > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:24 PM> > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts> > > > > >> > > > > >

> > > > > > My dear Professor,> > > > > >> > > > > > I do not see what kind of confusion may happen with my last> > > > answer to Mr.

> > > > > > Sadasivan:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Sadasivan,> > > > > >> > > > > > In my opinion, your understanding is correct.

> > > > > >> > > > > > First priority goes always to the role played by the FMPs in> > D1,> > > > but for> > > > > > any area of life a complete analysis requires that we look

> > > > carefully to the> > > > > > corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of both charts.> > > > > >> > > > > > But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.

> > > > > >> > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > >> > > > > > Jorge> > > > > >> > > > > >

> > > > > >> > > > > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@ >> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The subject being discussed in not as per SA and just> > creating> > > > > > > confusion. It> > > > > > > would be better if this and other non-SA concepts, if

> > > > necessary, are> > > > > > > discussed off list. As is evident from the name of the> > group it> > > > is for> > > > > > > discussing Systems' Approach and if you want to discuss non> > SA> > > > concepts> > > > > > > better open a new group or change the name of the list> > (group).> > > > I am> > > > > > > sorry I

> > > > > > > have to say so. Or if you want to continue it here and like> > > > this, then I> > > > > > > may> > > > > > > leave the group.

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > " SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN " <sadasivan_g@>> > > > > > > <

SAMVA >> > > > > > > Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PM> > > > > > > Re: Re: US rectified chart, Prediction> > > > Fulfilled

> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > | Dear Jorge,> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | >From the example , I can understand that if

> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if in> > > > > > > | D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes FM .In

> > > > > > > | other words Jupiter is a FM as far as Marriage> > > > > > > | matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter> > > > > > > | transits the 7th house or the 7th lord Saturn

> > > > > > > | natally , we can expect friction in married life> > > > > > > | ? AM I correct?> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa Jup

> > > > > > > | is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or 5th> > > > > > > | house then also 5th house sign suffers.> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | Kindly revert.

> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | Sadasivan> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | --- Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino@> wrote:

> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > | > Dear Sally,> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > The examples given were just regarding US rectifed

> > > > > > > | > chart, where Jupiter is> > > > > > > | > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events under> > > > > > > | > analysis were mainly

> > > > > > > | > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of Jupiter as> > > > > > > | > FMP was played in> > > > > > > | > almost all important dates strongly connected with

> > > > > > > | > war.> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > In the next example, this lady lost her father on> > > > > > > | > May 16, 1990, and her

> > > > > > > | > mother on September 7, 2000.> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > Lady lost parents;

> > > > > > > | > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST> > > > > > > | > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord> > > > > > > | > ================================================> > > > > > > | > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa

> > > > > > > | > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke> > > > > > > | > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke> > > > > > > | > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra

> > > > > > > | > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa> > > > > > > | > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa> > > > > > > | > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo

> > > > > > > | > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve> > > > > > > | > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo> > > > > > > | > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me

> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982> > > > > > > | > beats> > > > > > > | > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM

> > > > > > > | > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi> > > > > > > | > Rashi Chart> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | *******************************************************

> > > > > > > | > ** 9 * * 7> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *10* * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * SAR13:46* * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * JUR07:15 * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA> > > > > > > | > 19:43*> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** * *> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *11 * 5 MO 06:46

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** * *> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *12* * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > *ME 09:17 * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** 1 * * 3> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | *******************************************************> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > Dwadasamsha> > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > | *******************************************************> > > > > > > | > ** 3 * * 1> > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > | > *4 * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * ME * RA *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * AS * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * 2 SU * 12

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * SAR * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *5 * 11> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | > *6 * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > *VE * 8 * 10 JUR

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * MO * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * MA * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * KE * * *

> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > * * * * *> > > > > > > | > *> > > > > > > | > ** 7 * * 9

> > > > > > > | > **> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | *******************************************************> > > > > > > | > The D-chart related with parents and losses is D-12,

> > > > > > > | > where Jupiter is the> > > > > > > | > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both dates,> > > > > > > | > we can see a close

> > > > > > > | > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the> > > > > > > | > significators.> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit

> > > > > > > | > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house> > > > > > > | > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting MEP4 (MT> > > > > > > | > house of Saturn), and

> > > > > > > | > natal retrograde Saturn.> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA,> > > > > > > | > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,

> > > > > > > | > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3> > > > > > > | > (losses to mother) and MEP11,> > > > > > > | > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly aspecting

> > > > > > > | > transit Saturn, L4> > > > > > > | > (mother).> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the

> > > > > > > | > rectified lagna of US chart,> > > > > > > | > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > Best wishes,

> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > Jorge> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234@>

> > > > > > > | > wrote:> > > > > > > | > >> > > > > > > | > > I have been looking to many charts and transits> > > > > > > | > in the last two and a

> > > > > > > | > > > half years as you know. Many times I have seen> > > > > > > | > the FMPs in the respective> > > > > > > | > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or other

> > > > > > > | > significators for some> > > > > > > | > > > negative events concerning those houses.> > > > > > > | > >> > > > > > > | > >

> > > > > > > | > >> > > > > > > | > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you do> > > > > > > | > see the FMs of D-charts

> > > > > > > | > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to ask,> > > > > > > | > is it regarding the D> > > > > > > | > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just

> > > > > > > | > simply that the planet acts> > > > > > > | >> > > > > > > | === message truncated ===> > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |> > > > > > >> > > >

> > ____________________> > > > ______________> > > > > > >> > > > > > > | No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

> > > > > > > | with Mail for Mobile. Get started.> > > > > > > |

http://mobile./mail> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |> > > > > > > |

[Guest guest]

Dear David,

 

Thank you for the kind words.

 

I´m reminded of a French saying which goes something like this in

English: " The more things change, the more they stay the same " .

 

Indeed, Jorge and I are still participating and the list will be fine.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thor

 

SAMVA , " David Hawthorne " <david wrote:

>

> dear thor and jorge....

>

> i have been offfline for some days and was quite surprised to read

these recent exchanges.

>

> fortunately, it appears a good resolution has taken place.

>

> we have all been blessed by having the wisdom and guidance of our

dear professor.

>

> i hope he will continue to share his time and efforts with us, and

that we can remain together as friends and family.

>

> best wishes,

>

> david hawthorne

>

>

> -

> cosmologer

> SAMVA

> Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:35 PM

> Re:FMs of Divl charts

>

>

> My dear Jorge,

>

> Thank you for the magnimonious act. You have yet again shown what

a

> great person you are. We would be honored to keep your company.

Let

> me take the opportunity to thank you for all that you have done

for

> SAMVA. You are a hero in our ranks!

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> PS now we just have to get back!

>

>

> SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino@>

> wrote:

> >

> > My dear Thor.

> > You just became the owner again.

> > I hope I can stay as member.

> > Best wishes,

> > Jorge

> >

> >

> > On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > >

> > > My dear Jorge,

> > >

> > > This matter of who runs the SAMVA list is not about you.

SAMVA

> list

> > > is not the culmination of your work. The work you have done

is a

> self-

> > > standing contribution. It is based on non-SA ideas and

techniques.

> > > This only became clear to me after you had assumed ownership.

> Moving

> > > your work to another list does not in any way compromise your

> > > accomplishment and you can still continue with it outside of

> SAMVA.

> > > It would actually be a better place for it as it is not based

on

> SA.

> > > As I also I mentioned, many list members like you and will

follow

> you

> > > there. There is no problem with that.

> > >

> > > The issue is simply this. You are not using SA anymore. You

have

> put

> > > your own importance above that of . This is

not

> > > just a disturbance, it is a culmination of a intellectual

> > > conflict that has been slowly brewing for some time. All your

> > > postings are somehow with this new idea or twist. Just now it

was

> > > retrograde Mercury which explains the tension. That is not

SA. You

> > > may not see this clearly, but your approach has no place in

SA.

> > >

> > > The honorable thing now is for you to stand down as

> owner/moderator

> > > and allow me to continue with the list in the proper way. You

are

> not

> > > being asked to run the list against your own beliefs, nor

should

> you

> > > or anybody have to do such a thing. That would be wrong.

> > >

> > > So, please think about my offer. We can move your files to

the new

> > > list as soon as you are ready to open it. This will be best

for

> you

> > > and SAMVA. This list is only intended for SA. You do not have

> > > ownership of SA or SA in the Mundane Sphere. Professor

Choudhry

> has

> > > now made good on his threat to leave the list if you

continued the

> > > way you have. You ignore that as some temper tantrum. I

don´t

> see it

> > > that way. He has given up on your approach. In view of what

has

> been

> > > taking place for a long time, and now has come to a head

today,

> you

> > > are not doing the right thing by proposing to continue after

all

> of

> > > us just cool down. Temper has nothing to do with. The issue

just

> came

> > > to a head: this is a fundamental difference of oppinion on

> > > techniques. I hope you find clarity to do the right and

honorable

> > > thing and step down and create a new forum for your ideas.

Believe

> > > me, given where your ideas are, it will be best for you in

the

> long

> > > run. That way we can also continue as good friends who simply

and

> > > respectfully agree to disagree.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Thor

> > >

> > >

> > > SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino "

<jorge.angelino@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > *My dear Thor,*

> > > > **

> > > > *It is not my purpose to go outside SA, but when I have to

> justify

> > > my work I

> > > > have to explain how it was done. You are aware since the

very

> > > beginning that

> > > > for the mundane rectifications other techniques have been

> > > used...and it

> > > > seems they have been useful somehow. Now I have two and a

half

> > > years of

> > > > detailed work to justify. It would not be ethical, and it

is

> not my

> > > desire

> > > > to go out at this stage just due to an emotional

disturbance.

> For

> > > that I

> > > > meditate. So I am OK, don't worry. Let the transits cool

down.

> I am

> > > sure

> > > > afterwards reason will prevail.*

> > > > **

> > > > *Best wishes,*

> > > > **

> > > > *Jorge

> > > > *

> > > >

> > > > On 2/14/07, cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > My dear Jorge,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am just surprised as can be at your off-hand reaction

to our

> > > dear

> > > > > .

> > > > >

> > > > > I founded this list in November 2000 and based on the key

idea

> > > that

> > > > > we would apply SA in the mundane sphere. This was the

main

> idea

> > > for

> > > > > the list. Hence it was named the Systems' Approach to

Mundane

> > > Vedic

> > > > > Astrology - or SAMVA for short. I operated this list until

> > > December

> > > > > 2004, when I for professional reasons needed to lighten

my

> load.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please recall that when I asked you to accept to take

over as

> > > > > owner/moderator of this list in December 2004, I did so

in the

> > > > > sincere understanding and belief that you would maintain

this

> key

> > > > > focus of the list.

> > > > >

> > > > > To my disappointment you have increasingly begun to

introduce

> non-

> > > SA

> > > > > elements into the discussion. The work on the SAMVA USA

chart

> had

> > > > > nothing to do with that gradual change in your approach,

it

> began

> > > > > much earlier. The work on the SAMVA USA chart however

brought

> out

> > > the

> > > > > analytical underpinnings you use more clearly - and they

are

> not

> > > SA!

> > > > > has shown you enormous latitude with

these

> > > ideas.

> > > > > However, recently the things just seem to be coming to a

> head. You

> > > > > have become insistent on your own ideas and

interpretations

> over

> > > > > those of , even when he has offered you

his

> > > > > guidance. For those of us who follow SA it is not tenable

> that an

> > > SA

> > > > > list is operated in this way. He is the teacher of SA

that we

> have

> > > > > gathered here to learn from. We can learn from each other

in

> > > applying

> > > > > SA, but not when we go off into other directions. That

just

> > > creates

> > > > > confusion.

> > > > >

> > > > > If it is your intention to continue in non-SA direction,

as

> your

> > > 200%

> > > > > and 300% statements indicate, you should do the honorable

> thing

> > > and

> > > > > start your own list. I am sure many will want to

participate

> with

> > > you

> > > > > if you decide to do that. At the same time, you should

then

> > > restore

> > > > > ownership of SAMVA list to me and I will continue with it

as

> > > before

> > > > > for the continuing benefit of SA astrologers.

> > > > >

> > > > > Let me just close by saying that I am saddened by the

present

> > > > > situation as I have really liked our interaction on and

off

> the

> > > list.

> > > > > However, as the situation has come to a head with regard

to

> the

> > > > > purpose of this list, I just hope we can resolve this

> situation

> > > in a

> > > > > good way for everybodies benefit.

> > > > >

> > > > > With my sincere best wishes

> > > > > for your continued success

> > > > > and that of SAMVA,

> > > > >

> > > > > Thor

> > > > >

> > > > > SAMVA , " Jorge Angelino "

> <jorge.angelino@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My dear Professor,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > as you know, all this discussion started with the

> evaluation of

> > > the

> > > > > SAMVA US

> > > > > > chart and the US rectified chart. I have to explain to

the

> group

> > > > > why my 300%

> > > > > > beliefs go the 1776 US chart and that implies the

> explanation

> > > of my

> > > > > use of

> > > > > > FMPs in D-charts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As you have said before, SAMVA and SATVA are two

different

> > > > > entities. This is

> > > > > > already the second time that you loose your temper with

me

> > > without

> > > > > any

> > > > > > reason. If you feel that you should leave the list, it

is

> up to

> > > > > you. I would

> > > > > > prefer that you stay with us, but I don't want to

disturb

> your

> > > wish.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jorge

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >  **

> > > > > > > Hello dear Mr. Jorge,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am not referring to your last answer to SG. But

> bringing in

> > > > > one after

> > > > > > > the other non-SA concepts in discussions on a list

set up

> for

> > > > > discussions on

> > > > > > > SA is not appropriate.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I do not want interpolations and inclusions of any

> meanings

> > > > > ascribed to SA

> > > > > > > concepts which are not in line with SA principles. I

do

> not

> > > > > impose myself on

> > > > > > > others. Those who want to follow other than SA

principles

> > > they

> > > > > are welcome

> > > > > > > to do so off list or on other list.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > ** Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino@>

> > > > > > > *To:* SAMVA

> > > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:24 PM

> > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Re:FMs of Divl charts

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My dear Professor,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I do not see what kind of confusion may happen with

my

> last

> > > > > answer to Mr.

> > > > > > > Sadasivan:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Sadasivan,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In my opinion, your understanding is correct.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > First priority goes always to the role played by the

FMPs

> in

> > > D1,

> > > > > but for

> > > > > > > any area of life a complete analysis requires that we

look

> > > > > carefully to the

> > > > > > > corresponding D-chart, and to the interplay of both

> charts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But if that is your wish, for me it is OK.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jorge

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On 2/14/07, siha@ <siha@ >

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hello dear Mr. George, SG, and list members,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The subject being discussed in not as per SA and

just

> > > creating

> > > > > > > > confusion. It

> > > > > > > > would be better if this and other non-SA concepts,

if

> > > > > necessary, are

> > > > > > > > discussed off list. As is evident from the name of

the

> > > group it

> > > > > is for

> > > > > > > > discussing Systems' Approach and if you want to

discuss

> non

> > > SA

> > > > > concepts

> > > > > > > > better open a new group or change the name of the

list

> > > (group).

> > > > > I am

> > > > > > > > sorry I

> > > > > > > > have to say so. Or if you want to continue it here

and

> like

> > > > > this, then I

> > > > > > > > may

> > > > > > > > leave the group.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > " SADASIVAN GOPALAKRISHNAN " <sadasivan_g@>

> > > > > > > > <SAMVA >

> > > > > > > > Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:44 PM

> > > > > > > > Re: Re: US rectified chart,

Prediction

> > > > > Fulfilled

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > | Dear Jorge,

> > > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > > | >From the example , I can understand that

if

> > > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > > | 1) For a Leo Lagna , Jup in 7th house and if

in

> > > > > > > > | D-9 , Cancer is the Lagna Jup becomes

FM .In

> > > > > > > > | other words Jupiter is a FM as far as

Marriage

> > > > > > > > | matters are concerned. If such a Jupiter

> > > > > > > > | transits the 7th house or the 7th lord

Saturn

> > > > > > > > | natally , we can expect friction in married

life

> > > > > > > > | ? AM I correct?

> > > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > > | 2) For Virgo Lagna , Jup is FB. But in Saptamsa

Jup

> > > > > > > > | is MMF . If such a Jup transits 5th lord or

5th

> > > > > > > > | house then also 5th house sign suffers.

> > > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > > | Kindly revert.

> > > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > > | Sadasivan

> > > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > > | --- Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > > | > Dear Sally,

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > | > The examples given were just regarding US

rectifed

> > > > > > > > | > chart, where Jupiter is

> > > > > > > > | > FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12. As the events

under

> > > > > > > > | > analysis were mainly

> > > > > > > > | > related with H6, H4, and H12, the role of

Jupiter as

> > > > > > > > | > FMP was played in

> > > > > > > > | > almost all important dates strongly connected

with

> > > > > > > > | > war.

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > | > In the next example, this lady lost her father

on

> > > > > > > > | > May 16, 1990, and her

> > > > > > > > | > mother on September 7, 2000.

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > | > Lady lost parents;

> > > > > > > > | > Apr 18, 1959 11:34 PM -01:00 BST

> > > > > > > > | > Lahiri Ayanamsha: 23:17 Current Period: RA/RA/ME

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > | > Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord

> > > > > > > > | > ================================================

> > > > > > > > | > Asc 15:00 Sco Anuradha Sa

> > > > > > > > | > Sun 04:51 Ari +00:58:37 WK Aswini Ke

> > > > > > > > | > Moon 06:46 Leo +13:40:43 WK Magha Ke

> > > > > > > > | > Mars 11:31 Gem +00:34:06 FM Ardra Ra

> > > > > > > > | > Merc 09:17 Pis +00:32:32 WK U.Bhadra Sa

> > > > > > > > | > JuptR 07:15 Sco -00:05:21 ST Anuradha Sa

> > > > > > > > | > Ven 11:30 Tau +01:10:46 FM Rohini Mo

> > > > > > > > | > Sat R 13:46 Sag -00:00:12 ST P.Shadya Ve

> > > > > > > > | > Rahu 19:43 Vir +00:01:06 FM Hasta Mo

> > > > > > > > | > Ketu 19:43 Pis +00:01:06 FM Revati Me

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > | > True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 982

> > > > > > > > | > beats

> > > > > > > > | > Day: Saturday Sunrise: 6:49 AM

> > > > > > > > | > Tithi: Shukla Ekadashi

> > > > > > > > | > Rashi Chart

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > |

> *******************************************************

> > > > > > > > | > ** 9 * * 7

> > > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > > | > *10* *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * SAR13:46* * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * JUR07:15 * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * 8 AS 15:00 * 6 RA

> > > > > > > > | > 19:43*

> > > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > > | > *11 * 5 MO 06:46

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > > | > *12* *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > *ME 09:17 * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > *KE 19:43 * 2 VE 11:30 * 4

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * SU 04:51 * * MA 11:31 *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > ** 1 * * 3

> > > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > |

> *******************************************************

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > | > Dwadasamsha

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > |

> *******************************************************

> > > > > > > > | > ** 3 * * 1

> > > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > > | > *4 * *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * ME * RA *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * AS * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * 2 SU * 12

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * SAR * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > > | > *5 * 11

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > ** * *

> > > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > > | > *6 * *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > *VE * 8 * 10

JUR

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * MO * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * MA * * *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * KE *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > * * *

* *

> > > > > > > > | > *

> > > > > > > > | > ** 7 * * 9

> > > > > > > > | > **

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > |

> *******************************************************

> > > > > > > > | > The D-chart related with parents and losses is

D-12,

> > > > > > > > | > where Jupiter is the

> > > > > > > > | > MMP. Looking to the dasha and gochar of both

dates,

> > > > > > > > | > we can see a close

> > > > > > > > | > contact of Jupiter to the MEPs and the

> > > > > > > > | > significators.

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > | > On May 16, 1990, dasha: MO/RA/RA/MA/SA, transit

> > > > > > > > | > Jupiter was over MEP8 (house

> > > > > > > > | > of natal Mars, losses to father), aspecting

MEP4 (MT

> > > > > > > > | > house of Saturn), and

> > > > > > > > | > natal retrograde Saturn.

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > | > On September, 7, 2000, dasha: MA/JU/VE/SU/SA,

> > > > > > > > | > transit Jupiter was over MEP7,

> > > > > > > > | > influencing natal/transit Venus and MEP1, MEP3

> > > > > > > > | > (losses to mother) and MEP11,

> > > > > > > > | > and natal retrograde Jupiter was exactly

aspecting

> > > > > > > > | > transit Saturn, L4

> > > > > > > > | > (mother).

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > | > As the lagna is very similar in degree to the

> > > > > > > > | > rectified lagna of US chart,

> > > > > > > > | > Jupiter is also FMP in D4, D5, D6, D11 & D12.

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > | > Best wishes,

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > | > Jorge

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > | > On 2/14/07, Sally Spencer <sally234@>

> > > > > > > > | > wrote:

> > > > > > > > | > >

> > > > > > > > | > > I have been looking to many charts and

transits

> > > > > > > > | > in the last two and a

> > > > > > > > | > > > half years as you know. Many times I have

seen

> > > > > > > > | > the FMPs in the respective

> > > > > > > > | > > > D-chart being closely placed over MEPs or

other

> > > > > > > > | > significators for some

> > > > > > > > | > > > negative events concerning those houses.

> > > > > > > > | > >

> > > > > > > > | > >

> > > > > > > > | > >

> > > > > > > > | > > Thanks Jorge, for answering my question, you

do

> > > > > > > > | > see the FMs of D-charts

> > > > > > > > | > > afflicting D1 houses. So, I guess I meant to

ask,

> > > > > > > > | > is it regarding the D

> > > > > > > > | > > chart that the malefic event occurs? Or just

> > > > > > > > | > simply that the planet acts

> > > > > > > > | >

> > > > > > > > | === message truncated ===

> > > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

>

____________________

> > > > > ______________

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > | No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

> > > > > > > > | with Mail for Mobile. Get started.

> > > > > > > > | http://mobile./mail

> > > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > > |

> > > > > > > > |