Guest guest Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Sarajit, That was an interesting mail. But while assessing the natural focus and intelligence of a native shouldn't Sun, the karaka for 1H and whose exaltation is in 1H of the natural zodiac, be also considered? I am not very familiar with Narasimha's chart, but in Sanjayji's chart, Sun's placement (along with Venus, 8L) in 5H, I feel, is an equally important contributing factor for his great intuition and bhakti, as is the placement of Jupiter in lagna (Pisces). BTW, if the Lord of a particular bhava is in trines with the respective karaka, will the significations of that particular bhava gain more significance? Regards, Lakshmi varahamihira , " Sarajit Poddar " <sarajit@s...> wrote: > Jaya Jagannath > Dear Jyotisha, > > Its time to explain the role of Jupiter for Jyotisha. From Gurudev's mail you can know that he emphasised on one very important point, which I am quoting from his mail " In matters of marriages (Venus is ninth lord and Jupiter is in Libra) he has been extremely accurate. " > > Now we know that the knowledge of Jyotisha can only be given the by the devaguru Brhaspati. Now in Narasimha's case, Jupiter is placed in the Libra, the natural 7th house and lorded by Kalatrakaraka (karaka for spouse) Venus. Thats why he says that he is good in the matters of Marriage. In the horoscope of Gurudev Sanjay Rath you will find that Jupiter is placed in Pisces, the houses of the maharishis and the highest level of spirituality. Thats why his emphasis is on the Spiritual side of Jyotish, which can guide one to the path of Moksha (Pisces). Thus the area where a jyotish shall be good in is seen from the sign placement of Jupiter. > > Now the focus of the intelligence is seen from the paka lagna. Now in Narasimha's case, it is the 8th house and hence he is too deeply interested in the matters of occult. However 8th also rules speculation and sometimes, this speculation draws him away from the truth mostly wrt to the things related to the Lagna lord. In Pt. Sanjayji's horoscope, the Lagna lord is placed in the Lagna Pisces only, showing the focus on self development and reaching the perfect state. > > Just to explain a few interesting points. > > Best Wishes > Sarajit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Dear Lakshmi, As far as I know, dhi and intuition are both ruled by Jupiter. And the Sun is jyotish... Best regards, Sarbani b_lakshmi_ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh]Thursday, March 27, 2003 12:42 PMvarahamihira Subject: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Jupiter and JyotishaOm Gurave NamahNamaste Sarajit,That was an interesting mail. But while assessing the natural focus and intelligence of a native shouldn't Sun, the karaka for 1H and whose exaltation is in 1H of the natural zodiac, be also considered? I am not very familiar with Narasimha's chart, but in Sanjayji's chart, Sun's placement (along with Venus, 8L) in 5H, I feel, is an equally important contributing factor for his great intuition and bhakti, as is the placement of Jupiter in lagna (Pisces).BTW, if the Lord of a particular bhava is in trines with the respective karaka, will the significations of that particular bhava gain more significance?Regards,Lakshmi varahamihira , "Sarajit Poddar" <sarajit@s...> wrote:> Jaya Jagannath> Dear Jyotisha,> > Its time to explain the role of Jupiter for Jyotisha. From Gurudev's mail you can know that he emphasised on one very important point, which I am quoting from his mail "In matters of marriages (Venus is ninth lord and Jupiter is in Libra) he has been extremely accurate. "> > Now we know that the knowledge of Jyotisha can only be given the by the devaguru Brhaspati. Now in Narasimha's case, Jupiter is placed in the Libra, the natural 7th house and lorded by Kalatrakaraka (karaka for spouse) Venus. Thats why he says that he is good in the matters of Marriage. In the horoscope of Gurudev Sanjay Rath you will find that Jupiter is placed in Pisces, the houses of the maharishis and the highest level of spirituality. Thats why his emphasis is on the Spiritual side of Jyotish, which can guide one to the path of Moksha (Pisces). Thus the area where a jyotish shall be good in is seen from the sign placement of Jupiter.> > Now the focus of the intelligence is seen from the paka lagna. Now in Narasimha's case, it is the 8th house and hence he is too deeply interested in the matters of occult. However 8th also rules speculation and sometimes, this speculation draws him away from the truth mostly wrt to the things related to the Lagna lord. In Pt. Sanjayji's horoscope, the Lagna lord is placed in the Lagna Pisces only, showing the focus on self development and reaching the perfect state.> > Just to explain a few interesting points.> > Best Wishes> SarajitHare Rama KrishnaArchive:varahamihiraFiles:varahamihiravarahamihira/database Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Om Gurave Namah Dear Sarbani, In Gurudeva's " Crux of Vedic Astrology " it is stated that 1st house should be examined to determine one's intelligence too. Also Sun is exalted in Aries, which represents the head, and remember, Sun is also the Sahasraara and if so much of " head " does not indicate intelligence, I don't know what else will :-))! Love, Lakshmi varahamihira , " Sarbani Sarkar " <sarbani@s...> wrote: > Dear Lakshmi, > > As far as I know, dhi and intuition are both ruled by Jupiter. And the Sun > is jyotish... > > Best regards, > > Sarbani > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh] > Thursday, March 27, 2003 12:42 PM > varahamihira > [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Jupiter and Jyotisha > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Sarajit, > > That was an interesting mail. But while assessing the natural focus > and intelligence of a native shouldn't Sun, the karaka for 1H and > whose exaltation is in 1H of the natural zodiac, be also considered? > I am not very familiar with Narasimha's chart, but in Sanjayji's > chart, Sun's placement (along with Venus, 8L) in 5H, I feel, is an > equally important contributing factor for his great intuition and > bhakti, as is the placement of Jupiter in lagna (Pisces). > > BTW, if the Lord of a particular bhava is in trines with the > respective karaka, will the significations of that particular bhava > gain more significance? > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > varahamihira , " Sarajit Poddar " <sarajit@s...> > wrote: > > Jaya Jagannath > > Dear Jyotisha, > > > > Its time to explain the role of Jupiter for Jyotisha. From > Gurudev's mail you can know that he emphasised on one very important > point, which I am quoting from his mail " In matters of marriages > (Venus is ninth lord and Jupiter is in Libra) he has been extremely > accurate. " > > > > Now we know that the knowledge of Jyotisha can only be given the by > the devaguru Brhaspati. Now in Narasimha's case, Jupiter is placed in > the Libra, the natural 7th house and lorded by Kalatrakaraka (karaka > for spouse) Venus. Thats why he says that he is good in the matters > of Marriage. In the horoscope of Gurudev Sanjay Rath you will find > that Jupiter is placed in Pisces, the houses of the maharishis and > the highest level of spirituality. Thats why his emphasis is on the > Spiritual side of Jyotish, which can guide one to the path of Moksha > (Pisces). Thus the area where a jyotish shall be good in is seen from > the sign placement of Jupiter. > > > > Now the focus of the intelligence is seen from the paka lagna. Now > in Narasimha's case, it is the 8th house and hence he is too deeply > interested in the matters of occult. However 8th also rules > speculation and sometimes, this speculation draws him away from the > truth mostly wrt to the things related to the Lagna lord. In Pt. > Sanjayji's horoscope, the Lagna lord is placed in the Lagna Pisces > only, showing the focus on self development and reaching the perfect > state. > > > > Just to explain a few interesting points. > > > > Best Wishes > > Sarajit > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 Om Gurave Namah Hi Sarajit, Sarbani, and Karu It's lovely to hear from all of u….makes me feel very nostalgic. Anyway, back to the stimulating discussion. Sarajit, talking of skull and bones, don't u think Sun represents them too? BTW, when I said " head " I meant more the Light inside than the shell outside, and don't you know that! Sarbani, you are right that Sun is the significator for body and health. But he is also the Pure, Objective, Eternal Intelligence that's central to the Universe and Life. Imagine a solar system without the Sun…imagine a person, brain dead? His body is otherwise healthy, and he might be alive for all medical purposes, but is he really so in the true sense? Sarbani, here I am talking about Intelligence that's not subject to the vagaries of the mana…. Sun in the real sense is the implacable, uninvolved " I " ..not the emotional, subjective " i " . If you keenly observe, all the Mahapurusha, Sri Rama, Sri Krishna, Buddha.. all have a strong Solar influence in their charts, along with a strong Saturn, Jupiter and Moon…for Sun not only initiates the Rajayogas, but also blesses the native with an ability to raise above the terrestrial rajayogas, above self, above desha, above kaala and have genuine universal validity. Sarajit was indeed talking of jyotish and so was I. Ofcourse, Sun is good for Jyotish, he embodies the power " to see " . In Purusha sooktam also, Sun is said to symbolize the brilliant eyes of the Virat Purusha, the Dispassionate Observer. And, Sarbani, don't you think that " Dhi " is required not only for Jyotish, but for any complex, advanced study? And, come to think of it, isn't there something very " earth bound " about " Dhi " ? However exalted and full it might be (that's Gajakesari for you, Karu…the great body of intellect+knowledge of Gaja- combined with power + natural authority of Kesari)… yes, it still remains bound to earth. The power to soar is given only by the Sun. You know, one of the names of Sun is " Hamsa " . Now what does that signify? You know Sarbani, Jupiter gives gyaana thru attachment, Saturn gives vairaagya thru detachment…but it's the Sun, while touching and sustaining the entire world with his warmth, still basically remains Untouched and Virgin. " Bhaaskaraaya vidhmahe mahaddyuthikaraaya dheemahi tanno Aditya prachodayaat. " Love, Lakshmi P.S: Though I am an essential " agni tattwa " person, I appreciate the sensitivity and compassion of " Jala tattwa " …what would we be without you? And, hey. do u think I might actually manage to become a passable jyotishi? Just don't remind me about Mars, yaar….:-)) Thanks Karu, Shane and Ramesh are fine. Shane unabashedly celebrated Australia winning the world cup (bless him!), while the rest of the family remained sullenly patriotic! Shows how much we can learn from kids. varahamihira , " Sarbani Sarkar " <sarbani@s...> wrote: > Dear Lakshmi, > > Sun is the naisargika Atmakaraka and the karaka for lagna; hence its is the > karaka for health and the self. The lagna governs the entire self, and > without a well-disposed Sun (who is also the lord of all the planets), one > cannot have a good life, health, education, happiness, character, > religiosity/dharma, capacity to work, fame, even musical sense. Of course > the Sun is associated with intelligence, specially in making a person > well-read and that too in the dharma shastras. > > But here I thought Sarajit was talking specifically of Jyotish. And the kind > of intelligence -dhi- that is required here, is provided by Jupiter. It is > Jupiter's budhhi, Jupiter's intuition that is specially required. The Sun is > indispensable, as it rules Jyotisha and Jyotishis - " jyotishi tvayi sarvani > tvam sarva jyotishampati " . A strong Sun in buddhi sthana for Sanjayji will > specifically make him a good Jyotishi (check Bhavartha Ratnakara). So not > only a strong Jupiter, but a strong Sun and a strong Mars is also required > to learn jyotish. Why else do you think a Guru-Mangala Yoga is so desirable > in a jyotishi's horoscope? In fact, that has been one of the reasons why > Sanjayji has been worried whether I will ever learn Jyotish at depth: a very > shady Mars and a not so good Sun, which contributes to the weak agni tatva > balance in my chart. And agni tatva is very crucial for jyotish. But Sarajit > was speaking specifically about the role and placement of Jupiter with > respect to Jyotish. This is not to negate the presence of other karakas for > intelligence. > > I think there is a subtle difference between buddhi, vidya and gyana > karakas, and the Sun, Jupiter and Mercury are all involved in this (even the > Moon). Harihar Majumdar has explained this beautifully. Vidya according to > him has two meanings. On the one hand it means shiksha/education or acquired > knowledge. On the other it means atma gyan or bhagavat gyan. Mercury can > give one shiksha/education but only Jupiter can give gyan, and thats why > Mercury is vidya karaka and Jupiter is gyana karaka. Specifically, " Without > japa, bhakti, nishtha, dhyana and dharana one cannot have gyana, specially > bhagavat gyana, and for this is required a well-disposed Jupiter accompanied > by a strong Saturn " . I think it is this quality of Jupiter for Jyotish that > Sarajit was referring to. > > {The tone of your reply reminded me that Mars is transiting your lagna now > } > > Warmly, > > Sarbani > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 Hare Rama Krishna Dear Sarvani and Lakshmi, If the 5th house is occupied, the 1st/9th occupied by Benefics and the 4th/8th occupied by malefics, theres Matsya Yoga. "This Yoga makes one a seer, learned and the native carries great scriptural knowledge with them." This Yoga happens in Sanjays's Chart. The act of knowing Jyotish must be seen using several tools of understanding. 1. One needs a propper Guru, hence Brhaspati the teacher of the Demigods must show his presence either physically or otherwise. Either way it must show in the chart. Hence the Brhaspati Gayatri is the greatest blessing to Astrologers. 2. One needs strong Agni to be able to see the knowledge clearly in the blur of Akasha tattwa. Hence Sun and Mars should be reckoned in the chart, and especially if they are in Kendra. For this we recite the Vishnu Gayatri, where Vishnu sits in the 10th house and strengthens the 2nd and 6th houses, to make us see clearly and work hard. 3. The knowledge must flow without obstructions, hence the Dhi indicated by the Lagna is important. No dirt such as Saturn or the wavoring thoughts of Rahu must influence here, or we may have a forgetful person or a philosopher instead of a knower of the truth. For this purpose we recite Savitur Gayatri, and if you will excuse me, i'm going todo that now. Best wishesVisti---Sri Jagannath Center: http://.orgBhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org - Sarbani Sarkar varahamihira Friday, March 28, 2003 12:49 PM RE: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Jupiter and Jyotisha Dear Lakshmi, I think everybody here agrees about what you say about the Sun. I don't think that's a bone of contention at all. Let me recapitulate the thread of the conversation for the benefit of all. It began with Sarajit saying: "Its time to explain the role of Jupiter for Jyotisha. From Gurudev's mail you can know that he emphasised on one very important point...Now we know that the knowledge of Jyotisha can only be given by the devaguru Brhaspati." You replied: "But while assessing the natural focus and intelligence of a native shouldn't Sun, the karaka for 1H and whose exaltation is in 1H of the natural zodiac, be also considered?...Sun's placement (along with Venus, 8L) in 5H, I feel, is an equally important contributing factor for his great intuition and bhakti, as is the placement of Jupiter in lagna (Pisces)." I agree with you regarding the importance of the Sun, not because as you say Sun is giving bhakti and intuition, nor because of its natural contribution towards a person' intelligence (because thats understood), but because the Sun has a special role in jyotish. I mentioned it briefly in my last mail. In fact not only Sun I also mentioned Mars for jyotish. And the Sun is the Atma. All that you write about the Sun is accepted by everybody I presume, its one of the foundations of jyotish. "Sarvatma cha divanatho"...as Parasara teaches. Its not the issue at all. The issue is in the line written by Sarajit above (underlined), that is causing you discomfort. I only tried to provide some clues as to what he could have meant by that. I think Sarajit should answer this to you, as to why he thinks that Jupiter is the only one who can provide knowledge of jyotish. Incidentally, Uttara Kalamrita says that Jupiter is a karaka for jyotish and Parasara says, "devegyo gyanasukhado". p.s. ( But yes, from what I have learnt from Sanjayji in my classes, I do believe Jupiter is responsible for intuition in any person, Venus in Cancer in 5th for his general bhakti and love and Sun in 5th for his bhakti for Shiva and the high level of spiritual knowledge of jyotisha. For jyotish, he also has a Guru Mangala yoga ( never mind the placement of Mars), he also has that fantastic Jupiter in lagna in Meena, and he has his AK in the 11th house. The mutual placement of Jupiter in lagna and the Sun in the 5th is also excellent. And I am sure many other aspects as well. You also have a Hamsa Yoga in the lagna and the Sun in trines in his own house, which has given you such a deep knowledge of jyotish...AND Mars is your AK... But all this is beside the point.) Warm regards, Sarbani b_lakshmi_ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh]Friday, March 28, 2003 7:45 AMvarahamihira Subject: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Jupiter and JyotishaOm Gurave NamahHi Sarajit, Sarbani, and KaruIt's lovely to hear from all of u….makes me feel very nostalgic. Anyway, back to the stimulating discussion.Sarajit, talking of skull and bones, don't u think Sun represents them too? BTW, when I said "head" I meant more the Light inside than the shell outside, and don't you know that!Sarbani, you are right that Sun is the significator for body and health. But he is also the Pure, Objective, Eternal Intelligence that's central to the Universe and Life. Imagine a solar system without the Sun…imagine a person, brain dead? His body is otherwise healthy, and he might be alive for all medical purposes, but is he really so in the true sense?Sarbani, here I am talking about Intelligence that's not subject to the vagaries of the mana…. Sun in the real sense is the implacable, uninvolved "I"..not the emotional, subjective "i". If you keenly observe, all the Mahapurusha, Sri Rama, Sri Krishna, Buddha.. all have a strong Solar influence in their charts, along with a strong Saturn, Jupiter and Moon…for Sun not only initiates the Rajayogas, but also blesses the native with an ability to raise above the terrestrial rajayogas, above self, above desha, above kaala and have genuine universal validity. Sarajit was indeed talking of jyotish and so was I. Ofcourse, Sun is good for Jyotish, he embodies the power "to see". In Purusha sooktam also, Sun is said to symbolize the brilliant eyes of the Virat Purusha, the Dispassionate Observer. And, Sarbani, don't you think that "Dhi" is required not only for Jyotish, but for any complex, advanced study? And, come to think of it, isn't there something very "earth bound" about "Dhi"? However exalted and full it might be (that's Gajakesari for you, Karu…the great body of intellect+knowledge of Gaja- combined with power + natural authority of Kesari)… yes, it still remains bound to earth. The power to soar is given only by the Sun. You know, one of the names of Sun is "Hamsa". Now what does that signify? You know Sarbani, Jupiter gives gyaana thru attachment, Saturn gives vairaagya thru detachment…but it's the Sun, while touching and sustaining the entire world with his warmth, still basically remains Untouched and Virgin."Bhaaskaraaya vidhmahe mahaddyuthikaraaya dheemahi tanno Aditya prachodayaat."Love,LakshmiP.S: Though I am an essential "agni tattwa" person, I appreciate the sensitivity and compassion of "Jala tattwa"…what would we be without you? And, hey. do u think I might actually manage to become a passable jyotishi? Just don't remind me about Mars, yaar….:-))Thanks Karu, Shane and Ramesh are fine. Shane unabashedly celebrated Australia winning the world cup (bless him!), while the rest of the family remained sullenly patriotic! Shows how much we can learn from kids.varahamihira , "Sarbani Sarkar" <sarbani@s...> wrote:> Dear Lakshmi,> > Sun is the naisargika Atmakaraka and the karaka for lagna; hence its is the> karaka for health and the self. The lagna governs the entire self, and> without a well-disposed Sun (who is also the lord of all the planets), one> cannot have a good life, health, education, happiness, character,> religiosity/dharma, capacity to work, fame, even musical sense. Of course> the Sun is associated with intelligence, specially in making a person> well-read and that too in the dharma shastras.> > But here I thought Sarajit was talking specifically of Jyotish. And the kind> of intelligence -dhi- that is required here, is provided by Jupiter. It is> Jupiter's budhhi, Jupiter's intuition that is specially required. The Sun is> indispensable, as it rules Jyotisha and Jyotishis - "jyotishi tvayi sarvani> tvam sarva jyotishampati". A strong Sun in buddhi sthana for Sanjayji will> specifically make him a good Jyotishi (check Bhavartha Ratnakara). So not> only a strong Jupiter, but a strong Sun and a strong Mars is also required> to learn jyotish. Why else do you think a Guru-Mangala Yoga is so desirable> in a jyotishi's horoscope? In fact, that has been one of the reasons why> Sanjayji has been worried whether I will ever learn Jyotish at depth: a very> shady Mars and a not so good Sun, which contributes to the weak agni tatva> balance in my chart. And agni tatva is very crucial for jyotish. But Sarajit> was speaking specifically about the role and placement of Jupiter with> respect to Jyotish. This is not to negate the presence of other karakas for> intelligence.> > I think there is a subtle difference between buddhi, vidya and gyana> karakas, and the Sun, Jupiter and Mercury are all involved in this (even the> Moon). Harihar Majumdar has explained this beautifully. Vidya according to> him has two meanings. On the one hand it means shiksha/education or acquired> knowledge. On the other it means atma gyan or bhagavat gyan. Mercury can> give one shiksha/education but only Jupiter can give gyan, and thats why> Mercury is vidya karaka and Jupiter is gyana karaka. Specifically, "Without> japa, bhakti, nishtha, dhyana and dharana one cannot have gyana, specially> bhagavat gyana, and for this is required a well-disposed Jupiter accompanied> by a strong Saturn". I think it is this quality of Jupiter for Jyotish that> Sarajit was referring to.> > {The tone of your reply reminded me that Mars is transiting your lagna now> }> > Warmly,> > Sarbani> >Hare Rama KrishnaArchive:varahamihiraFiles:varahamihiravarahamihira/database Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 Jaya Jagannath, Dear Lakshmi, First of all, I just like put a word of caution. Sentences like, "don't you know that" etc. should not be used in this forum. There is nothing personal. Everyone is here to discuss and learn. No body is putting you down and you need not put anybody down. Its everyone's responsibilty to maintain decorum in this forum. Now you will find many intelligent fellows in different segment of lives. Intelligence here is a very broad term. Many take intelligence to be analytical, giving practical solutions in different situations, ability to solve complex problems etc. Thus we note here that intelligence in common parlance means a lots of things and we need to differentiate between the what is meant by intelligence in the context of Jyotish. Intelligence in Jyotish is the ability to discriminate or discern the truth from untruth. The ability which takes us to the right path and ultimately to the path of moksha. Now this is only governed by the Devaguru Brhaspati. If Jupiter is weak, even if the person is intelligent (in normal parlance), he can be completely away from the true path. You are right in giving the Sun its due by emphasing its karakatva of the Lagna and the Eyes of the Purusha. Yes there is a relation of Sun with Jyotisha as the power of Agni is required for a person to see the past and future (I guess we don't have disagreement here). Moreover Sun is also a significator of this divine science and there is no doubt about that. However without the Blessings of Jupiter a strong Sun will lack direction. Such knowledge will not be use for the mankind. This is not all, Jupiter being the akash tattva planet is the only guide to the Intuition, which can only tap the infinite resources of the resplendant Sun. When I stated that, the knowledge of Jyotish can only be given by Jupiter, I meant that.... the knowledge as a boon to the mankind. Now do you know such knowledge can also be given by Rahu.... what a relation, both Jupiter and Rahu aspects the 5th and 9th. However the only difference is that Jupiter gives the knowledge by connecting you to the highest realm of knowledge, however Rahu gives it by making the person a sort of psychic. Without the blessings of Jupiter, even if the person understands what is going to happen, he will not be able to guide the person. Thats what I meant by what I said. Otherwise Jyotish can be given by Venus, Mars, Mercury, Ketu as well.... all are there in the shastras. However, thats not the point... Now, the knowledge given by various planets in the horoscope as mentioned above can show whether or not the person can see the past of future. However, which areas the person will be good/ successful in predictions can only be seen from Jupiter's placement in different signs. Jupiter shall bring the fruits of your predictions for those things goverened by the rasi where Jupiter is placed. I rest my case here.. Best wishes Sarajit - Sarbani Sarkar varahamihira Friday, March 28, 2003 7:49 PM RE: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Jupiter and Jyotisha Dear Lakshmi, I think everybody here agrees about what you say about the Sun. I don't think that's a bone of contention at all. Let me recapitulate the thread of the conversation for the benefit of all. It began with Sarajit saying: "Its time to explain the role of Jupiter for Jyotisha. From Gurudev's mail you can know that he emphasised on one very important point...Now we know that the knowledge of Jyotisha can only be given by the devaguru Brhaspati." You replied: "But while assessing the natural focus and intelligence of a native shouldn't Sun, the karaka for 1H and whose exaltation is in 1H of the natural zodiac, be also considered?...Sun's placement (along with Venus, 8L) in 5H, I feel, is an equally important contributing factor for his great intuition and bhakti, as is the placement of Jupiter in lagna (Pisces)." I agree with you regarding the importance of the Sun, not because as you say Sun is giving bhakti and intuition, nor because of its natural contribution towards a person' intelligence (because thats understood), but because the Sun has a special role in jyotish. I mentioned it briefly in my last mail. In fact not only Sun I also mentioned Mars for jyotish. And the Sun is the Atma. All that you write about the Sun is accepted by everybody I presume, its one of the foundations of jyotish. "Sarvatma cha divanatho"...as Parasara teaches. Its not the issue at all. The issue is in the line written by Sarajit above (underlined), that is causing you discomfort. I only tried to provide some clues as to what he could have meant by that. I think Sarajit should answer this to you, as to why he thinks that Jupiter is the only one who can provide knowledge of jyotish. Incidentally, Uttara Kalamrita says that Jupiter is a karaka for jyotish and Parasara says, "devegyo gyanasukhado". p.s. ( But yes, from what I have learnt from Sanjayji in my classes, I do believe Jupiter is responsible for intuition in any person, Venus in Cancer in 5th for his general bhakti and love and Sun in 5th for his bhakti for Shiva and the high level of spiritual knowledge of jyotisha. For jyotish, he also has a Guru Mangala yoga ( never mind the placement of Mars), he also has that fantastic Jupiter in lagna in Meena, and he has his AK in the 11th house. The mutual placement of Jupiter in lagna and the Sun in the 5th is also excellent. And I am sure many other aspects as well. You also have a Hamsa Yoga in the lagna and the Sun in trines in his own house, which has given you such a deep knowledge of jyotish...AND Mars is your AK... But all this is beside the point.) Warm regards, Sarbani b_lakshmi_ramesh [b_lakshmi_ramesh]Friday, March 28, 2003 7:45 AMvarahamihira Subject: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Jupiter and JyotishaOm Gurave NamahHi Sarajit, Sarbani, and KaruIt's lovely to hear from all of u….makes me feel very nostalgic. Anyway, back to the stimulating discussion.Sarajit, talking of skull and bones, don't u think Sun represents them too? BTW, when I said "head" I meant more the Light inside than the shell outside, and don't you know that!Sarbani, you are right that Sun is the significator for body and health. But he is also the Pure, Objective, Eternal Intelligence that's central to the Universe and Life. Imagine a solar system without the Sun…imagine a person, brain dead? His body is otherwise healthy, and he might be alive for all medical purposes, but is he really so in the true sense?Sarbani, here I am talking about Intelligence that's not subject to the vagaries of the mana…. Sun in the real sense is the implacable, uninvolved "I"..not the emotional, subjective "i". If you keenly observe, all the Mahapurusha, Sri Rama, Sri Krishna, Buddha.. all have a strong Solar influence in their charts, along with a strong Saturn, Jupiter and Moon…for Sun not only initiates the Rajayogas, but also blesses the native with an ability to raise above the terrestrial rajayogas, above self, above desha, above kaala and have genuine universal validity. Sarajit was indeed talking of jyotish and so was I. Ofcourse, Sun is good for Jyotish, he embodies the power "to see". In Purusha sooktam also, Sun is said to symbolize the brilliant eyes of the Virat Purusha, the Dispassionate Observer. And, Sarbani, don't you think that "Dhi" is required not only for Jyotish, but for any complex, advanced study? And, come to think of it, isn't there something very "earth bound" about "Dhi"? However exalted and full it might be (that's Gajakesari for you, Karu…the great body of intellect+knowledge of Gaja- combined with power + natural authority of Kesari)… yes, it still remains bound to earth. The power to soar is given only by the Sun. You know, one of the names of Sun is "Hamsa". Now what does that signify? You know Sarbani, Jupiter gives gyaana thru attachment, Saturn gives vairaagya thru detachment…but it's the Sun, while touching and sustaining the entire world with his warmth, still basically remains Untouched and Virgin."Bhaaskaraaya vidhmahe mahaddyuthikaraaya dheemahi tanno Aditya prachodayaat."Love,LakshmiP.S: Though I am an essential "agni tattwa" person, I appreciate the sensitivity and compassion of "Jala tattwa"…what would we be without you? And, hey. do u think I might actually manage to become a passable jyotishi? Just don't remind me about Mars, yaar….:-))Thanks Karu, Shane and Ramesh are fine. Shane unabashedly celebrated Australia winning the world cup (bless him!), while the rest of the family remained sullenly patriotic! Shows how much we can learn from kids.varahamihira , "Sarbani Sarkar" <sarbani@s...> wrote:> Dear Lakshmi,> > Sun is the naisargika Atmakaraka and the karaka for lagna; hence its is the> karaka for health and the self. The lagna governs the entire self, and> without a well-disposed Sun (who is also the lord of all the planets), one> cannot have a good life, health, education, happiness, character,> religiosity/dharma, capacity to work, fame, even musical sense. Of course> the Sun is associated with intelligence, specially in making a person> well-read and that too in the dharma shastras.> > But here I thought Sarajit was talking specifically of Jyotish. And the kind> of intelligence -dhi- that is required here, is provided by Jupiter. It is> Jupiter's budhhi, Jupiter's intuition that is specially required. The Sun is> indispensable, as it rules Jyotisha and Jyotishis - "jyotishi tvayi sarvani> tvam sarva jyotishampati". A strong Sun in buddhi sthana for Sanjayji will> specifically make him a good Jyotishi (check Bhavartha Ratnakara). So not> only a strong Jupiter, but a strong Sun and a strong Mars is also required> to learn jyotish. Why else do you think a Guru-Mangala Yoga is so desirable> in a jyotishi's horoscope? In fact, that has been one of the reasons why> Sanjayji has been worried whether I will ever learn Jyotish at depth: a very> shady Mars and a not so good Sun, which contributes to the weak agni tatva> balance in my chart. And agni tatva is very crucial for jyotish. But Sarajit> was speaking specifically about the role and placement of Jupiter with> respect to Jyotish. This is not to negate the presence of other karakas for> intelligence.> > I think there is a subtle difference between buddhi, vidya and gyana> karakas, and the Sun, Jupiter and Mercury are all involved in this (even the> Moon). Harihar Majumdar has explained this beautifully. Vidya according to> him has two meanings. On the one hand it means shiksha/education or acquired> knowledge. On the other it means atma gyan or bhagavat gyan. Mercury can> give one shiksha/education but only Jupiter can give gyan, and thats why> Mercury is vidya karaka and Jupiter is gyana karaka. Specifically, "Without> japa, bhakti, nishtha, dhyana and dharana one cannot have gyana, specially> bhagavat gyana, and for this is required a well-disposed Jupiter accompanied> by a strong Saturn". I think it is this quality of Jupiter for Jyotish that> Sarajit was referring to.> > {The tone of your reply reminded me that Mars is transiting your lagna now> }> > Warmly,> > Sarbani> >Hare Rama KrishnaArchive:varahamihiraFiles:varahamihiravarahamihira/database Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Dear Visti, *Dirt* such as Saturn? Ah, but have you not read the _Shani Mahatmya_? Saturn is our great protector, Mahakala. Without Shani, we have no skeleton; the whole thing falls apart. If Saturn is dirt, it is from the putrefaction of Saturn, the greatness of Saturn, that new life, green and variegated, grows. I have Saturn quite prominent in my first house, and yet I've been advised I am equipped for this duty. May the subtle teachings of the Dharmapala Shani disclose the mystery of the unity of Harihara, now and always! With metta, J.I. Abbot In a message dated 3/28/2003 7:59:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, vishnu writes: No dirt such as Saturn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Om Gurave Namah Hey Sarajit, Don't get so upset, please. I'm sorry if I have hurt you by my comments. I would request you to read my reply again and see the humour there....I was clearly having a lark writing the mail. I am quite an imp when in the mood, though God knows that at 42-43 I should be more sombre. The phrase " don't you know that " is only a rhetorical way of saying " ofcourse you know that! " in a very light hearted manner...but perhaps there's something very wrong with my English. Anyway I apologise for hurting a very nice and knowledgeable person and again, Sarajit, I meant no offence. My only statement was that Sun is very important in Sanjayji's chart and contributes in no mean way to his uncanny ability to see into the future and often into the past too..it was based on the fact that 5th house, being simultaneously the house of past (poorva punya) and that of future(progeny) and of Bhakti and Love (both the things give the native an ability to think of something/somebody away from oneself), can give one the power to " objectively " see things over a " continuum " ....call it intuition, call it clairvoyance. And the natural 5th house is ruled by Sun. He gives the primary ability. Hence my conjectures about Sanjayji's Sun. When I referred to Sun being called " Hamsa " , I was just thinking that Jupiter has the same qualities like the Sun, the same sattwa guna, the same agni tattwa etc, except the quality of self-illumination and of radiation. A strong Sun in trines / kendra can lend a Strong Guru that kind of inner & outer radiance, so that he becomes another Sun, illuminating the minds of his students. Sarbani was referring to AK's placement in 11H being very condusive to Jyotish, why so? Is it because a planet in 11H can see 5H fully? And, AK is akin to Sun and bears His light, so perhaps AK's (or Sun's, the natural atmakaraka) placement in 5H or 11H is very condusive to jyotish. Isn't Aquarius another great sign for thinkers and jupiter in Aquarius is supposed to be extremely strong...that too in a house co-lorded by Saturn and Rahu! Visti, how come? Sarbani, I always thought that the placement of Sun in a particular chart highlights an area of singular focus of the individual, for the Atma / Light placed is there. Quite a lot of difference is there between Sanjayji's Sun and mine, though both are in trines to lagna and Jupiter. Sun in 5H and Sun in 9H... His focus and mine are totally different. As Visti said Gurudeva is a seer and I am just a novice and any comparison between us is blasphemy. All the same, thanks for your affection and I do know Guruji's lasting affection for me...though, frankly, a lot of times I neither understand it nor think I deserve it. I'm sorry again Sarajit, and perhaps it's time to quit. Regards, Lakshmi -- In varahamihira , " Sarajit Poddar " <sarajit@s...> wrote: > Jaya Jagannath, > Dear Lakshmi, > > First of all, I just like put a word of caution. Sentences like, " don't you know that " etc. should not be used in this forum. There is nothing personal. Everyone is here to discuss and learn. No body is putting you down and you need not put anybody down. Its everyone's responsibilty to maintain decorum in this forum. > > Now you will find many intelligent fellows in different segment of lives. Intelligence here is a very broad term. Many take intelligence to be analytical, giving practical solutions in different situations, ability to solve complex problems etc. Thus we note here that intelligence in common parlance means a lots of things and we need to differentiate between the what is meant by intelligence in the context of Jyotish. > > Intelligence in Jyotish is the ability to discriminate or discern the truth from untruth. The ability which takes us to the right path and ultimately to the path of moksha. Now this is only governed by the Devaguru Brhaspati. If Jupiter is weak, even if the person is intelligent (in normal parlance), he can be completely away from the true path. You are right in giving the Sun its due by emphasing its karakatva of the Lagna and the Eyes of the Purusha. Yes there is a relation of Sun with Jyotisha as the power of Agni is required for a person to see the past and future (I guess we don't have disagreement here). Moreover Sun is also a significator of this divine science and there is no doubt about that. However without the Blessings of Jupiter a strong Sun will lack direction. Such knowledge will not be use for the mankind. This is not all, Jupiter being the akash tattva planet is the only guide to the Intuition, which can only tap the infinite resources of the resplendant Sun. When I stated that, the knowledge of Jyotish can only be given by Jupiter, I meant that.... the knowledge as a boon to the mankind. Now do you know such knowledge can also be given by Rahu.... what a relation, both Jupiter and Rahu aspects the 5th and 9th. However the only difference is that Jupiter gives the knowledge by connecting you to the highest realm of knowledge, however Rahu gives it by making the person a sort of psychic. > > Without the blessings of Jupiter, even if the person understands what is going to happen, he will not be able to guide the person. Thats what I meant by what I said. Otherwise Jyotish can be given by Venus, Mars, Mercury, Ketu as well.... all are there in the shastras. However, thats not the point... > > Now, the knowledge given by various planets in the horoscope as mentioned above can show whether or not the person can see the past of future. However, which areas the person will be good/ successful in predictions can only be seen from Jupiter's placement in different signs. Jupiter shall bring the fruits of your predictions for those things goverened by the rasi where Jupiter is placed. > > I rest my case here.. > > Best wishes > Sarajit > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Hare Rama Krishna Dear DharmaRaja, There is no problem with Shani in Lagna, as long as it protects the dhi. Shani is a misunderstood characther, he punishes us for the purpose of making us grow.. people usually only see the 1st part, and not the 2nd. Best wishesVisti---Sri Jagannath Center: http://.orgBhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org - Jiabbot varahamihira Saturday, March 29, 2003 5:17 AM Re: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Jupiter and Jyotisha Dear Visti,*Dirt* such as Saturn? Ah, but have you not read the _Shani Mahatmya_? Saturn is our great protector, Mahakala. Without Shani, we have no skeleton; the whole thing falls apart. If Saturn is dirt, it is from the putrefaction of Saturn, the greatness of Saturn, that new life, green and variegated, grows.I have Saturn quite prominent in my first house, and yet I've been advised I am equipped for this duty. May the subtle teachings of the Dharmapala Shani disclose the mystery of the unity of Harihara, now and always!With metta,J.I. AbbotIn a message dated 3/28/2003 7:59:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, vishnu writes: No dirt such as SaturnHare Rama KrishnaArchive:varahamihiraFiles:varahamihiravarahamihira/database Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 In a message dated 3/29/2003 3:59:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, vishnu writes: Dear DharmaRaja, There is no problem with Shani in Lagna, as long as it protects the dhi. Shani is a misunderstood characther, he punishes us for the purpose of making us grow.. people usually only see the 1st part, and not the 2nd. Best wishes Visti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 Hi all, I would put my point of view on this discussion, without any intention to disregard any other persons' knowledge, for I am as well learning through the process. Since the name of this list is " varahmihira " , its of great importance to understand the reasons for varahmihira in the " brihat jataka " to offer a prayer to sun-god in the starting verse! The stature of the person, which is as well indicative of the desire that might have been behind it for years/births, and the great work done by him should be good enough starting point in reasoning and put things in right perspective. Why should the prayer be addressed to sun-god and not to rest of planetary/mythological deities in a treatise on jyotish? Again, jyotish is jyoti+ishwara and the only self-luminous graha/light is sun. Who else can tell/guide us better in this science of light than Sun god, who is light himself, something, that we are trying to see through our consciousness, if only seeing is important? Just like guidance to see light is different than being light itself. Jupiter as deva-guru is a guide to see all that is light, through discrimination, but jupiter is not jyotish. Sun is jyotish/light itself and hence " superior " to be prayed to see!!! Somebody who is of the nature of light itself, doesn't need any external aid to know about himself unless that light is clouded by rahu and if light is clouded, seeing takes relative importance over being!!! This cloud of thought and hence ego, and as intuition is sensitized thought (sensitized through light of consciousness), jupiter is the only ray of hope for most of us in this Yuga. regards, nitish --- Sarajit Poddar <sarajit wrote: > Jaya Jagannath, > Dear Lakshmi, > > First of all, I just like put a word of caution. > Sentences like, " don't you know that " etc. should > not be used in this forum. There is nothing > personal. Everyone is here to discuss and learn. No > body is putting you down and you need not put > anybody down. Its everyone's responsibilty to > maintain decorum in this forum. > > Now you will find many intelligent fellows in > different segment of lives. Intelligence here is a > very broad term. Many take intelligence to be > analytical, giving practical solutions in different > situations, ability to solve complex problems etc. > Thus we note here that intelligence in common > parlance means a lots of things and we need to > differentiate between the what is meant by > intelligence in the context of Jyotish. > > Intelligence in Jyotish is the ability to > discriminate or discern the truth from untruth. The > ability which takes us to the right path and > ultimately to the path of moksha. Now this is only > governed by the Devaguru Brhaspati. If Jupiter is > weak, even if the person is intelligent (in normal > parlance), he can be completely away from the true > path. You are right in giving the Sun its due by > emphasing its karakatva of the Lagna and the Eyes of > the Purusha. Yes there is a relation of Sun with > Jyotisha as the power of Agni is required for a > person to see the past and future (I guess we don't > have disagreement here). Moreover Sun is also a > significator of this divine science and there is no > doubt about that. However without the Blessings of > Jupiter a strong Sun will lack direction. Such > knowledge will not be use for the mankind. This is > not all, Jupiter being the akash tattva planet is > the only guide to the Intuition, which can only tap > the infinite resources of the resplendant Sun. When > I stated that, the knowledge of Jyotish can only be > given by Jupiter, I meant that.... the knowledge as > a boon to the mankind. Now do you know such > knowledge can also be given by Rahu.... what a > relation, both Jupiter and Rahu aspects the 5th and > 9th. However the only difference is that Jupiter > gives the knowledge by connecting you to the highest > realm of knowledge, however Rahu gives it by making > the person a sort of psychic. > > Without the blessings of Jupiter, even if the person > understands what is going to happen, he will not be > able to guide the person. Thats what I meant by what > I said. Otherwise Jyotish can be given by Venus, > Mars, Mercury, Ketu as well.... all are there in the > shastras. However, thats not the point... > > Now, the knowledge given by various planets in the > horoscope as mentioned above can show whether or not > the person can see the past of future. However, > which areas the person will be good/ successful in > predictions can only be seen from Jupiter's > placement in different signs. Jupiter shall bring > the fruits of your predictions for those things > goverened by the rasi where Jupiter is placed. > > I rest my case here.. > > Best wishes > Sarajit > > > - > Sarbani Sarkar > varahamihira > Friday, March 28, 2003 7:49 PM > RE: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Jupiter and > Jyotisha > > > Dear Lakshmi, > > I think everybody here agrees about what you say > about the Sun. I don't think that's a bone of > contention at all. Let me recapitulate the thread of > the conversation for the benefit of all. It began > with Sarajit saying: > > " Its time to explain the role of Jupiter for > Jyotisha. From Gurudev's mail you can know that he > emphasised on one very important point...Now we know > that the knowledge of Jyotisha can only be given by > the devaguru Brhaspati. " > > You replied: > > " But while assessing the natural focus and > intelligence of a native shouldn't Sun, the karaka > for 1H and whose exaltation is in 1H of the natural > zodiac, be also considered?...Sun's placement (along > with Venus, 8L) in 5H, I feel, is an equally > important contributing factor for his great > intuition and bhakti, as is the placement of Jupiter > in lagna (Pisces). " > > I agree with you regarding the importance of the > Sun, not because as you say Sun is giving bhakti and > intuition, nor because of its natural contribution > towards a person' intelligence (because thats > understood), but because the Sun has a special role > in jyotish. I mentioned it briefly in my last mail. > In fact not only Sun I also mentioned Mars for > jyotish. And the Sun is the Atma. All that you write > about the Sun is accepted by everybody I presume, > its one of the foundations of jyotish. " Sarvatma cha > divanatho " ...as Parasara teaches. Its not the issue > at all. The issue is in the line written by Sarajit > above (underlined), that is causing you discomfort. > I only tried to provide some clues as to what he > could have meant by that. I think Sarajit should > answer this to you, as to why he thinks that Jupiter > is the only one who can provide knowledge of > jyotish. Incidentally, Uttara Kalamrita says that > Jupiter is a karaka for jyotish and Parasara says, > " devegyo gyanasukhado " . > > p.s. ( But yes, from what I have learnt from > Sanjayji in my classes, I do believe Jupiter is > responsible for intuition in any person, Venus in > Cancer in 5th for his general bhakti and love and > Sun in 5th for his bhakti for Shiva and the high > level of spiritual knowledge of jyotisha. For > jyotish, he also has a Guru Mangala yoga ( never > mind the placement of Mars), he also has that > fantastic Jupiter in lagna in Meena, and he has his > AK in the 11th house. The mutual placement of > Jupiter in lagna and the Sun in the 5th is also > excellent. And I am sure many other aspects as well. > You also have a Hamsa Yoga in the lagna and the Sun > in trines in his own house, which has given you > such a deep knowledge of jyotish...AND Mars is your > AK... But all this is beside the point.) > > Warm regards, > > Sarbani > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh > [b_lakshmi_ramesh] > Friday, March 28, 2003 7:45 AM > varahamihira > [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Jupiter and > Jyotisha > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Hi Sarajit, Sarbani, and Karu > > It's lovely to hear from all of u..makes me feel > very nostalgic. > Anyway, back to the stimulating discussion. > > Sarajit, talking of skull and bones, don't u think > Sun represents > them too? BTW, when I said " head " I meant more the > Light inside than > the shell outside, and don't you know that! > > Sarbani, you are right that Sun is the > significator for body and > health. But he is also the Pure, Objective, > Eternal Intelligence > that's central to the Universe and Life. Imagine a > solar system > without the Sun.imagine a person, brain dead? His > body is otherwise > healthy, and he might be alive for all medical > purposes, but is he > really so in the true sense? > > Sarbani, here I am talking about Intelligence > that's not subject to > the vagaries of the mana.. Sun in the real sense > is the implacable, > uninvolved " I " ..not the emotional, subjective " i " . > If you keenly > observe, all the Mahapurusha, Sri Rama, Sri > Krishna, Buddha.. all > have a strong Solar influence in their charts, > along with a strong > Saturn, Jupiter and Moon.for Sun not only > initiates the Rajayogas, > but also blesses the native with an ability to > raise above the > terrestrial rajayogas, above self, above desha, > above kaala and have > genuine universal validity. > > === message truncated === Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 ~Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya~Dear Nitish, The name of this list is Varahamihira because I admire his genius as a Jyotish, author, poet, grammarian, astronomer, mathematician, geologist, medical doctor, healer...the list is endless. He worshipped Surya because he was a 'Magha-Brahmana' i.e. from Magadha. Magadha and Kalinga (modern Bihar & Orissa). Jyotish comes from 3 deities representing the 3 eyes as it is light that helps us to see. The karaka for sight is the Sun God and hence the Maha Narayana Upanishad saysSurye Jyotishi juhomi svaha How can any person be so learned in so many branches? Jaimini/Parasara explain that it is Jupiter that gives supreme intelligence (Dhi shakti). This Dhi shakti is the cause of Jupiter ruling the 'third eye' or the eye of wisdom. Coming back to the point, the three planets ruling the three eyes are the Sun (Right/male, left /female), Moon (vice versa) and Jupiter (third eye). The three deties Who gave this knowledge are Surya (Sun), Shiva (Moon) and Vishnu (Jupiter). Vasistha learnt this knowledge from Bhagavan Vishnu and passed it on. Parasara was devoted to Shiva and where does Varahamihira stand in front of Parasara in matters of finalising the entire shastra itself. Everybody after Parasara has only dabbled with rights and wrongs but stayed well within the paradigm set by the great seer. Now, did Parasara only worship Surya? Definitely not. The entire VISHNU PURANA is nothing but a discussion between Parasara and Maitreya and is full of Jyotish foundation. What gave Varahamihira such brilliance and wide learning - can only be Jupiter. So, worship is one thing (5th house) and ruling planet is an other (Lagna).I don't see any conflict in my recitation of the Savitur gayatri with the Brihaspati gayatri and the Vishnu gayatri to be ended with the Mrityunjaya mantra..why should I grumble if either of the forms of god is willing to give me some knowledge. Whichever form gives me the inspiration, for me He is Nirankaara Parama guru, for guru is Nirankaara. Thus light has three definitions - 1.physical sight caused by the glowing Sun, 2. next mental sight caused by reflecting on the various thoughts and visions that are caused by physical sight ruled by the Moon that reflects light the physical light of the Sun in different tones and quantity and shades. 3. finally the third is the spiritual light coming from Him Whose face is hidden behind the Sun - the spiritual light. With best regards & your post was very thought provoking,Sanjay Rath-----------------------------H-5 BJB Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, IndiaTel: +91-674-2436871 http://srath.com- Original Message ----- Nitish Arya varahamihira Monday, March 31, 2003 5:16 PMRe: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Jupiter and JyotishaHi all, I would put my point of view on this discussion,without any intention to disregard any other persons'knowledge, for I am as well learning through theprocess. Since the name of this list is "varahmihira", its ofgreat importance to understand the reasons forvarahmihira in the "brihat jataka" to offer a prayerto sun-god in the starting verse! The stature of theperson, which is as well indicative of the desire thatmight have been behind it for years/births, and thegreat work done by him should be good enough startingpoint in reasoning and put things in rightperspective. Why should the prayer be addressed tosun-god and not to rest of planetary/mythologicaldeities in a treatise on jyotish? Again, jyotish is jyoti+ishwara and the onlyself-luminous graha/light is sun. Who else cantell/guide us better in this science of light than Sungod, who is light himself, something, that we aretrying to see through our consciousness, if onlyseeing is important? Just like guidance to see light is different thanbeing light itself. Jupiter as deva-guru is a guide tosee all that is light, through discrimination, butjupiter is not jyotish. Sun is jyotish/light itselfand hence "superior" to be prayed to see!!! Somebodywho is of the nature of light itself, doesn't need anyexternal aid to know about himself unless that lightis clouded by rahu and if light is clouded, seeingtakes relative importance over being!!! This cloud ofthought and hence ego, and as intuition is sensitizedthought (sensitized through light of consciousness),jupiter is the only ray of hope for most of us in thisYuga.regards,nitish --- Sarajit Poddar <sarajit wrote:> Jaya Jagannath,> Dear Lakshmi,> > First of all, I just like put a word of caution.> Sentences like, "don't you know that" etc. should> not be used in this forum. There is nothing> personal. Everyone is here to discuss and learn. No> body is putting you down and you need not put> anybody down. Its everyone's responsibilty to> maintain decorum in this forum.> > Now you will find many intelligent fellows in> different segment of lives. Intelligence here is a> very broad term. Many take intelligence to be> analytical, giving practical solutions in different> situations, ability to solve complex problems etc.> Thus we note here that intelligence in common> parlance means a lots of things and we need to> differentiate between the what is meant by> intelligence in the context of Jyotish.> > Intelligence in Jyotish is the ability to> discriminate or discern the truth from untruth. The> ability which takes us to the right path and> ultimately to the path of moksha. Now this is only> governed by the Devaguru Brhaspati. If Jupiter is> weak, even if the person is intelligent (in normal> parlance), he can be completely away from the true> path. You are right in giving the Sun its due by> emphasing its karakatva of the Lagna and the Eyes of> the Purusha. Yes there is a relation of Sun with> Jyotisha as the power of Agni is required for a> person to see the past and future (I guess we don't> have disagreement here). Moreover Sun is also a> significator of this divine science and there is no> doubt about that. However without the Blessings of> Jupiter a strong Sun will lack direction. Such> knowledge will not be use for the mankind. This is> not all, Jupiter being the akash tattva planet is> the only guide to the Intuition, which can only tap> the infinite resources of the resplendant Sun. When> I stated that, the knowledge of Jyotish can only be> given by Jupiter, I meant that.... the knowledge as> a boon to the mankind. Now do you know such> knowledge can also be given by Rahu.... what a> relation, both Jupiter and Rahu aspects the 5th and> 9th. However the only difference is that Jupiter> gives the knowledge by connecting you to the highest> realm of knowledge, however Rahu gives it by making> the person a sort of psychic.> > Without the blessings of Jupiter, even if the person> understands what is going to happen, he will not be> able to guide the person. Thats what I meant by what> I said. Otherwise Jyotish can be given by Venus,> Mars, Mercury, Ketu as well.... all are there in the> shastras. However, thats not the point...> > Now, the knowledge given by various planets in the> horoscope as mentioned above can show whether or not> the person can see the past of future. However,> which areas the person will be good/ successful in> predictions can only be seen from Jupiter's> placement in different signs. Jupiter shall bring> the fruits of your predictions for those things> goverened by the rasi where Jupiter is placed.> > I rest my case here..> > Best wishes> Sarajit> > > - > Sarbani Sarkar > varahamihira > Friday, March 28, 2003 7:49 PM> RE: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Jupiter and> Jyotisha> > > Dear Lakshmi,> > I think everybody here agrees about what you say> about the Sun. I don't think that's a bone of> contention at all. Let me recapitulate the thread of> the conversation for the benefit of all. It began> with Sarajit saying:> > "Its time to explain the role of Jupiter for> Jyotisha. From Gurudev's mail you can know that he> emphasised on one very important point...Now we know> that the knowledge of Jyotisha can only be given by> the devaguru Brhaspati."> > You replied:> > "But while assessing the natural focus and> intelligence of a native shouldn't Sun, the karaka> for 1H and whose exaltation is in 1H of the natural> zodiac, be also considered?...Sun's placement (along> with Venus, 8L) in 5H, I feel, is an equally> important contributing factor for his great> intuition and bhakti, as is the placement of Jupiter> in lagna (Pisces)."> > I agree with you regarding the importance of the> Sun, not because as you say Sun is giving bhakti and> intuition, nor because of its natural contribution> towards a person' intelligence (because thats> understood), but because the Sun has a special role> in jyotish. I mentioned it briefly in my last mail.> In fact not only Sun I also mentioned Mars for> jyotish. And the Sun is the Atma. All that you write> about the Sun is accepted by everybody I presume,> its one of the foundations of jyotish. "Sarvatma cha> divanatho"...as Parasara teaches. Its not the issue> at all. The issue is in the line written by Sarajit> above (underlined), that is causing you discomfort.> I only tried to provide some clues as to what he> could have meant by that. I think Sarajit should> answer this to you, as to why he thinks that Jupiter> is the only one who can provide knowledge of> jyotish. Incidentally, Uttara Kalamrita says that> Jupiter is a karaka for jyotish and Parasara says,> "devegyo gyanasukhado". > > p.s. ( But yes, from what I have learnt from> Sanjayji in my classes, I do believe Jupiter is> responsible for intuition in any person, Venus in> Cancer in 5th for his general bhakti and love and> Sun in 5th for his bhakti for Shiva and the high> level of spiritual knowledge of jyotisha. For> jyotish, he also has a Guru Mangala yoga ( never> mind the placement of Mars), he also has that> fantastic Jupiter in lagna in Meena, and he has his> AK in the 11th house. The mutual placement of> Jupiter in lagna and the Sun in the 5th is also> excellent. And I am sure many other aspects as well.> You also have a Hamsa Yoga in the lagna and the Sun> in trines in his own house, which has given you> such a deep knowledge of jyotish...AND Mars is your> AK... But all this is beside the point.) > > Warm regards,> > Sarbani> > > b_lakshmi_ramesh> [b_lakshmi_ramesh]> Friday, March 28, 2003 7:45 AM> varahamihira > [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Jupiter and> Jyotisha> > > Om Gurave Namah> > Hi Sarajit, Sarbani, and Karu> > It's lovely to hear from all of u..makes me feel> very nostalgic. > Anyway, back to the stimulating discussion.> > Sarajit, talking of skull and bones, don't u think> Sun represents > them too? BTW, when I said "head" I meant more the> Light inside than > the shell outside, and don't you know that!> > Sarbani, you are right that Sun is the> significator for body and > health. But he is also the Pure, Objective,> Eternal Intelligence > that's central to the Universe and Life. Imagine a> solar system > without the Sun.imagine a person, brain dead? His> body is otherwise > healthy, and he might be alive for all medical> purposes, but is he > really so in the true sense?> > Sarbani, here I am talking about Intelligence> that's not subject to > the vagaries of the mana.. Sun in the real sense> is the implacable, > uninvolved "I"..not the emotional, subjective "i".> If you keenly > observe, all the Mahapurusha, Sri Rama, Sri> Krishna, Buddha.. all > have a strong Solar influence in their charts,> along with a strong > Saturn, Jupiter and Moon.for Sun not only> initiates the Rajayogas, > but also blesses the native with an ability to> raise above the > terrestrial rajayogas, above self, above desha,> above kaala and have > genuine universal validity. > > === message truncated === Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!http://platinum.Hare Rama KrishnaArchive:varahamihiraFiles:varahamihiravarahamihira/database Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 Dear Nitish, Sanjay Rath wrote: 3. finally the third is the spiritual light coming from Him Whose face is hidden behind the Sun - the spiritual light. I cannot help but add this famous quote from the Isa-Upanishad: Hiranmayena paatrena satyasyapihitam mukham tat tvam pushannaapaabrinu satya dharmaya hrishtaye "Under a golden brilliance (Sun), the face of Truth lies hidden. Do thou, O Protector, remove this cover, that I, devoted to the Truth alone, may realise it." Best regards, Sarbani - Nitish Arya varahamihira Monday, March 31, 2003 5:16 PM Re: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Jupiter and Jyotisha Hi all, I would put my point of view on this discussion,without any intention to disregard any other persons'knowledge, for I am as well learning through theprocess. Since the name of this list is "varahmihira", its ofgreat importance to understand the reasons forvarahmihira in the "brihat jataka" to offer a prayerto sun-god in the starting verse! The stature of theperson, which is as well indicative of the desire thatmight have been behind it for years/births, and thegreat work done by him should be good enough startingpoint in reasoning and put things in rightperspective. Why should the prayer be addressed tosun-god and not to rest of planetary/mythologicaldeities in a treatise on jyotish? Again, jyotish is jyoti+ishwara and the onlyself-luminous graha/light is sun. Who else cantell/guide us better in this science of light than Sungod, who is light himself, something, that we aretrying to see through our consciousness, if onlyseeing is important? Just like guidance to see light is different thanbeing light itself. Jupiter as deva-guru is a guide tosee all that is light, through discrimination, butjupiter is not jyotish. Sun is jyotish/light itselfand hence "superior" to be prayed to see!!! Somebodywho is of the nature of light itself, doesn't need anyexternal aid to know about himself unless that lightis clouded by rahu and if light is clouded, seeingtakes relative importance over being!!! This cloud ofthought and hence ego, and as intuition is sensitizedthought (sensitized through light of consciousness),jupiter is the only ray of hope for most of us in thisYuga.regards,nitish --- Sarajit Poddar <sarajit wrote:> Jaya Jagannath,> Dear Lakshmi,> > First of all, I just like put a word of caution.> Sentences like, "don't you know that" etc. should> not be used in this forum. There is nothing> personal. Everyone is here to discuss and learn. No> body is putting you down and you need not put> anybody down. Its everyone's responsibilty to> maintain decorum in this forum.> > Now you will find many intelligent fellows in> different segment of lives. Intelligence here is a> very broad term. Many take intelligence to be> analytical, giving practical solutions in different> situations, ability to solve complex problems etc.> Thus we note here that intelligence in common> parlance means a lots of things and we need to> differentiate between the what is meant by> intelligence in the context of Jyotish.> > Intelligence in Jyotish is the ability to> discriminate or discern the truth from untruth. The> ability which takes us to the right path and> ultimately to the path of moksha. Now this is only> governed by the Devaguru Brhaspati. If Jupiter is> weak, even if the person is intelligent (in normal> parlance), he can be completely away from the true> path. You are right in giving the Sun its due by> emphasing its karakatva of the Lagna and the Eyes of> the Purusha. Yes there is a relation of Sun with> Jyotisha as the power of Agni is required for a> person to see the past and future (I guess we don't> have disagreement here). Moreover Sun is also a> significator of this divine science and there is no> doubt about that. However without the Blessings of> Jupiter a strong Sun will lack direction. Such> knowledge will not be use for the mankind. This is> not all, Jupiter being the akash tattva planet is> the only guide to the Intuition, which can only tap> the infinite resources of the resplendant Sun. When> I stated that, the knowledge of Jyotish can only be> given by Jupiter, I meant that.... the knowledge as> a boon to the mankind. Now do you know such> knowledge can also be given by Rahu.... what a> relation, both Jupiter and Rahu aspects the 5th and> 9th. However the only difference is that Jupiter> gives the knowledge by connecting you to the highest> realm of knowledge, however Rahu gives it by making> the person a sort of psychic.> > Without the blessings of Jupiter, even if the person> understands what is going to happen, he will not be> able to guide the person. Thats what I meant by what> I said. Otherwise Jyotish can be given by Venus,> Mars, Mercury, Ketu as well.... all are there in the> shastras. However, thats not the point...> > Now, the knowledge given by various planets in the> horoscope as mentioned above can show whether or not> the person can see the past of future. However,> which areas the person will be good/ successful in> predictions can only be seen from Jupiter's> placement in different signs. Jupiter shall bring> the fruits of your predictions for those things> goverened by the rasi where Jupiter is placed.> > I rest my case here..> > Best wishes> Sarajit> > > - > Sarbani Sarkar > varahamihira > Friday, March 28, 2003 7:49 PM> RE: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Jupiter and> Jyotisha> > > Dear Lakshmi,> > I think everybody here agrees about what you say> about the Sun. I don't think that's a bone of> contention at all. Let me recapitulate the thread of> the conversation for the benefit of all. It began> with Sarajit saying:> > "Its time to explain the role of Jupiter for> Jyotisha. From Gurudev's mail you can know that he> emphasised on one very important point...Now we know> that the knowledge of Jyotisha can only be given by> the devaguru Brhaspati."> > You replied:> > "But while assessing the natural focus and> intelligence of a native shouldn't Sun, the karaka> for 1H and whose exaltation is in 1H of the natural> zodiac, be also considered?...Sun's placement (along> with Venus, 8L) in 5H, I feel, is an equally> important contributing factor for his great> intuition and bhakti, as is the placement of Jupiter> in lagna (Pisces)."> > I agree with you regarding the importance of the> Sun, not because as you say Sun is giving bhakti and> intuition, nor because of its natural contribution> towards a person' intelligence (because thats> understood), but because the Sun has a special role> in jyotish. I mentioned it briefly in my last mail.> In fact not only Sun I also mentioned Mars for> jyotish. And the Sun is the Atma. All that you write> about the Sun is accepted by everybody I presume,> its one of the foundations of jyotish. "Sarvatma cha> divanatho"...as Parasara teaches. Its not the issue> at all. The issue is in the line written by Sarajit> above (underlined), that is causing you discomfort.> I only tried to provide some clues as to what he> could have meant by that. I think Sarajit should> answer this to you, as to why he thinks that Jupiter> is the only one who can provide knowledge of> jyotish. Incidentally, Uttara Kalamrita says that> Jupiter is a karaka for jyotish and Parasara says,> "devegyo gyanasukhado". > > p.s. ( But yes, from what I have learnt from> Sanjayji in my classes, I do believe Jupiter is> responsible for intuition in any person, Venus in> Cancer in 5th for his general bhakti and love and> Sun in 5th for his bhakti for Shiva and the high> level of spiritual knowledge of jyotisha. For> jyotish, he also has a Guru Mangala yoga ( never> mind the placement of Mars), he also has that> fantastic Jupiter in lagna in Meena, and he has his> AK in the 11th house. The mutual placement of> Jupiter in lagna and the Sun in the 5th is also> excellent. And I am sure many other aspects as well.> You also have a Hamsa Yoga in the lagna and the Sun> in trines in his own house, which has given you> such a deep knowledge of jyotish...AND Mars is your> AK... But all this is beside the point.) > > Warm regards,> > Sarbani> > > b_lakshmi_ramesh> [b_lakshmi_ramesh]> Friday, March 28, 2003 7:45 AM> varahamihira > [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: Jupiter and> Jyotisha> > > Om Gurave Namah> > Hi Sarajit, Sarbani, and Karu> > It's lovely to hear from all of u..makes me feel> very nostalgic. > Anyway, back to the stimulating discussion.> > Sarajit, talking of skull and bones, don't u think> Sun represents > them too? BTW, when I said "head" I meant more the> Light inside than > the shell outside, and don't you know that!> > Sarbani, you are right that Sun is the> significator for body and > health. But he is also the Pure, Objective,> Eternal Intelligence > that's central to the Universe and Life. Imagine a> solar system > without the Sun.imagine a person, brain dead? His> body is otherwise > healthy, and he might be alive for all medical> purposes, but is he > really so in the true sense?> > Sarbani, here I am talking about Intelligence> that's not subject to > the vagaries of the mana.. Sun in the real sense> is the implacable, > uninvolved "I"..not the emotional, subjective "i".> If you keenly > observe, all the Mahapurusha, Sri Rama, Sri> Krishna, Buddha.. all > have a strong Solar influence in their charts,> along with a strong > Saturn, Jupiter and Moon.for Sun not only> initiates the Rajayogas, > but also blesses the native with an ability to> raise above the > terrestrial rajayogas, above self, above desha,> above kaala and have > genuine universal validity. > > === message truncated === Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!http://platinum.Hare Rama KrishnaArchive:varahamihiraFiles:varahamihiravarahamihira/database Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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