Guest guest Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 || Jaya Jagannath || Dear Gurudev/ Ajit, One more reason to show the absurdity of day change at times other than the Sunrise. We know that the day is lorded by the lord of the day rising at the sunrise (or day start). This infact becomes the year lord too. Thus the hora lord rising with Sunrise (apparent of actual) on the day of the samkranti defines the lord of the year. Now, if we take the day start at 12 O'clock, then the hora of the that time (taking 6AM as the Hora start time) will not be of the next hora of the Hora rising at the Sunrise. If we take Sunday 12O'clock, Mars hora will be running at that time. But Tuesday doesnot follow Sunday. This problem can only be rectified, if we do not peg the start of the days hora with Sunrise time but the Midnoon. Which seems to be incorrect. This is the same with all other times be it Sunset or Midnite. Thus if we take the basis to be hora starting with Sunrise to be correct, the change of day at any other point of time other than the Sunrise time cannot be correct. Thus only the hora lord rising at the Sunrise on the day of Sankranti can only become the Year lord. For other day starts there will be conflict between the daylord, hora lord at day start and we cannot decide on the Year lord for such cases. I rest my arguement here. Pranaam Sarajit > ~Om Gurave Namah~ > Dear Ajit, > I have already discussed the possibility of printing a Panchanga with the publisher Sagar Publications and they are ready when we are. In fact it is we who are late in this and not them. The following notes are for discusssions and also to be added to the Panchanga. Since your letter is what I read after the gayatri, you will be in charge of this Panchanga. My only request being to stick to the name of Sri Jagannath. > -------------------------------- > There are four types of Masa: > > 1. Saura masa or the solar month with its differential opinion of how to consider as you have pointed out. The four different opinions are based on the four gayatri with > (a) Orissa, Punjab et.al. sticking to the Brahma gayatri (sunrise point reckoning) and the day of the sankranti is taken as the start of the month, [satya] > (b) Kerala schoold considers tha abhijit muhrta as determining (midday) and if the sankranti is after midday, then they take the next day to initiate the month. This is the second gayatri or the sandhya at midday [Treta] > © Tamilnadu has a more rational system than that with the sankranti based on day/night and the starting date is the next day if this has occured after sunset and is based on the evening junction or the third gayatri. [Dwapara] > (d) Finally, the consideration of the turiya gayatri came into the picture with the advent of Kali Yuga and the Bengal school (only one wing if I am right) consider this based on the midnight as the determining factor. [Kali] > > The arguments are fine, but then the decision should be based on what we consider to be the determination of day. Already the definition of the day has shifted to Kali gayatri in Kali Yuga with the British introducing the begining of the day from the midnight hour. However, we Vedic astrologers have stuck to satya and continue to use the day definition as begining from sunrise. Thus, an event occuring on a day, which is reckoned from sunrise, should be recorded as such. > > The results of birth in different masa and the determination of the lord of the month is based on determination of the day of sankranti. In Jyotish, this is strictly taken as the day (between two consecutive sunrise) that a sankranti occurs. For example, let us consider the New year chart 2001. The data is below: > Solar Year > April 13, 2001 > Time: 11:33:35 pm > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) > Place: 85 E 50' 00 " , 20 N 14' 00 " , Bhubaneswar, India > Lunar Yr-Mo: Vrisha - Chaitra > Tithi: Krishna Shashthi (Ve) (24.55% left) > Weekday: Friday (Ve) > Nakshatra: Moola (Ke) (32.10% left) > Yoga: Parigha (Sa) > Karana: Vanija (Ve) > > Sunrise: 5:31:15 am > Sunset: 6:04:26 pm > Janma Ghatis: 45.0972 > > According to (a) Orissa/Punjab and (b) Kerala, this shall be taken as the 13 April, 2001 and according to © Tamil Nadu and (d) Bengal, this is taken as 14 April 2001. Bengal has a few other variations and this can be ignored as wishful thinking by the intelligent mind. If we were to follow Varahamihira and stick to the tradition, then we should take the date as 13 April 2001 as the begining of the Samvatsara. This will cause Venus (lord of Friday) to be the lord of the year for (a) & (b) and Saturn (lord of Saturday, the day following), to be the lord of the year for © & (d). since for all Jyotish purposes we use Venus, we do not see the reason for confusing this issue by taking Saturday as the date of Sankranti and Saturn as the lord of the day. Thus, the definition for the begining of the Samvatsara is the day on which the Sun shall change signs as this is the truth of its disposition, and for this purpose we should also follow Varaha in the definition of the day as the first visibility of the upper limb of the Sun. > > Since this can vary across continents and the day of Sankranti for India would be different for the United States, the " Interational Jyotish Date Line " should be taken as Ujjain, India which is the seat of the Jyotirlinga Mahakaleswara - the keeper of time. Of course, in local Panchanga, the sthana devata determines the date line like Puri does for Orissa being the seat of Lord Jagannath, but then it would be my bias and not the correct thing to adopt for a panchanga. > ------ > Other points to follow. Please start tabulating the Panchanga using Lahiri ayanamsa. > Please respond to the Varaha list only for the opinion of all the learned members so that we can consolidate the views. > Best wishes, > Sanjay Rath > ---- - > H-5 B J B Nagar, Bhubaneswar - 751014, India > SJC Web pages: http://.org > Personal Web: http://srath.com > Tel: +91-674-243 6781 > ---- - > > > > > > - > Ajit Krishnan > saratj ; Sanjay Rath ; Narasimha P.V.R. Rao ; Sarajit Poddar ; narayan > Thursday, April 03, 2003 9:56 PM > mudgala panchanga > > > hamsa om soham > > Dear Gurus, > > I wanted to inform you personally that I have prepared some panchangas for this year and put them online at http://www.mudgala.com/panchanga. I would appreciate any comments for improvement. > > This calendar uses the new-moon month for festival dates as per my family tradition. However, I would also like to generate calendars based on proper understanding (this includes the use of full-moon months which you have always advocated). I am trying to make these changes now. > > However, in order to do other calculations correctly, I need your help. > For example, I know of four different methods to calculate the beginning of the solar month: > 1) orissa school: take the day when sankranti occurs > 2) tamil school: if sankranti occurs before sunset, take the same day. Otherwise, take the next day > 3) malyali school: if sankranti occurs before aparahna kala, take the same day. Otherwise, take the next day > 4) bengal school: if sankranti occurs before midnight, take the next day. Otherwise, take the 3rd day. > > As per my understanding, the malyali school is probably correct here, since we are suppossed to offer tarpanam at the madhyahna sandya after sankranti occurs. > > Gurudeva...you had mentioned earlier that you would like to release a SJC ephemeris / panchanga in the future. I can help in this endeavour. > > ajit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 hamsa om soham Dear Sarajit, What you have written makes sense based on the motion of the sun, and is applicable to solar years, solar months and solar days. The lord of the first sunrise following sankranti also rules the first solar month, and the solar year. An excerpt from the report of the Indian Calendar Reform Committee: " Purnimanta lunar month begins a fortnight before the initial new moon of amanta lunar month, after which it is named, and ends in the middle of that amanta month... The peculiar and somewhat perplexing feature of the purnimanta lunar calendar is that the first month of the year, that is, Chaitra and the year itself do not start at the same time. The year starts, like the amanta lunar calendar, which the ending of amavasya (new moon) in the solar month of Chaitra, but the month of Chaitra of this calendar starts about a fortnight earlier with the ending of purnima, that is with the full moon. This means that for the Purnimanta lunar calendar the year starts in the middle of the month of lunar Chaitra, resulting in the counting of the first half of Chaitra, that is vadi or krishna Chaitra, as part of the previous samvat year, and the latter half of Chaitra, that is sudi or shukla Chaitra, as a part of the the next year, meaning that the new year commences with the beginning of the latter half of Chaitra, which is sudi Chaitra. " So, this gives rise to some questions: 1) How do we determine the lord of the lunar year, lunar month, and lunar day? 2) What is the difference between the lunar year lord, and solar year lord? 3) Why don't the lunar year, month and day coincide like the solar year? ajit - " Sarajit Poddar " <sarajit Thursday, April 03, 2003 11:59 PM Re: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: mudgala panchanga > || Jaya Jagannath || > Dear Gurudev/ Ajit, > > One more reason to show the absurdity of day change at times other than > the Sunrise. > > We know that the day is lorded by the lord of the day rising at the > sunrise (or day start). This infact becomes the year lord too. Thus the > hora lord rising with Sunrise (apparent of actual) on the day of the > samkranti defines the lord of the year. > ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 || Jaya Jagannath || Dear Ajit, Purnimanta is also knows as Suklanta (Sukla +Anta) which means end of the Sukla Paksha. This sinodic (soli-lunar) calender is advocated by none less than Varahamihira itself. In this calender the day begins with the Krsna Pratipada and ends with Purnima. The name of Chaitra for the first month is derived from the nakshatra Chitra. Now this derivation of the month name is only justified, if we take the Suklanta as the true calendar, as in this calendar, Moon on an average will be in the Chitra nakshatra while the Sun in Aries (This is only an approximation to keep the name of the month). Thus we can appreciate the fact that the name of the month is given by the Name of the nakshatra Moon is in during the start of the month. For this purpose the Nakshatras of the start of the sign is taken. This is based on the principle of, what would be the name of the Month, if the this Soli-lunar month were to start when the Sun has just entered a sign (which is not the actual case, but is used for a standard naming convention). Now I shall show why the name of the month is not haphazard or arbitrary but follow a well defined principle. The nakshatra which is in the sandhi (0deg) of each of the sign is as follows: 1. Aries - Revati/ Ashwini 2. Taurus - Krttika 3. Gemini - Mrgasiras 4. Cancer - Punarvasu 5. Leo- Aslesha / Makha 6. Virgo - Uttara-phalguni 7. Libra - Chitra 8. Scorpio - Vishakha 9. Sagittarius - Jyestha/ Moola 10. Capricorn - Uttara-asadha 11. Aquarius - Dhanistha 12. Pisces - Purva-bhadrapada Now you note here that the year starts with Chaitra which corresponds to Chitra. The following month is Vaisakh which corresponds to Vishakha. This strongly indicate that the months name are given on the basis of the Nakshatra, that Moon would occupy if the Purnima happens in the start of signs in the zodiacal order (Which is a possibility, when the sinodic year is made equivalent to a pure solar month). Now we see how the name of the month related to each of the nakshatras shown above and if there is any anomaly. Lets start with Chaitra- Chitra Chaitra - Sun is Aries - Moon in ChitraVaishakh - Sun is Taurus - Moon in VishakhaJyeshta - Sun in Gemini - Moon in JyeshthaAshadh - Sun in Cancer - Moon in Uttara- AsadhaShravan (Sawan) - Sun in Leo - Moon in Dhanistha << Anomaly>>Bhadra (Bhado) - Sun in Virgo - Moon in P. BhadrapadaAshwin - Sun in Libra - Moon in AshviniKartik - Sun in Scorpio - Moon in KrttikaMargshirsh - Sun in Sagittarius - Moon in MargashirshaPaush - Sun in Capricorn - Moon in Punarvasu << Anomaly>>Magha - Sun in Aquarius - Moon in MakhaPhalgun (Fagun) - Sun in Pisces - Moon in U. Phalguni We see that there is some anomaly in the Month of Sravan and Paush which is not kept on the basis of Dhanistha or Punarvasu. Sravan is based on Sravana which appears just 2 pada before Start of Dhanistha in the Sign of Aquarius. Whereas Pushya comes only one pada after the end of Punarvasu in the sign of Cancer. There should be some reason behind this, for which I have no explanation now. One more minor anomaly is why not Moola is taken for the month name when Sun is in Gemini and why Jyestha is taken. For other two gandantas the Nakshatra in the suceeding sign (fiery ones) is taken. This proves that the sinodic month names are based on the Suklanta (purnimanta) calendar rather than the Amanta calendar. The Suklanta year begins whenever Sun is in Aries and there is a opposition of Sun and the Moon (Purnima). This month is known as Chaitra for the reasons mentioned above. Now the Amanta new year begins approximately 15 day before the Suklanta new year. Even if this conjunction happens in Pisces, it starts the year. `coz, the name of the first month of the year is given the name Chaitra, this first month of the Amanta year is also given the name Chaitra, however without any astronomical basis. For example take this year. The Suklanta new year begins with end of Purnima and start of Krsna Pratipad, when the Sun is in Aries. This corresponds to April 16, 2003; 19:36:15 GMT. This is yet to begin. However the followers of the Amanta new year have celebrated their new year a few days back. Now Amanta year starts with Sukla Pratipada, approx. 15 days before the Suklanta new year. Now this happens to be April 1, 2003; 19:19:30 GMT.... However, we see that the Amanta calendar gains very wide popularity and it became a convention to use the Month of a year in conjunction with the Amanta months and not suklanta months. This is why Suklanta first month of the year begins mid of the Amanta month and ends in the Mid of next amanta month. Because of the convention, the Amanta chaitra month begins on April 1 and ends on May 1, whereas the Suklanta month starts in the middle of the Chaitra and ends in the middle of the Vaishakh. However, we must appreciate the fact that here we are taking of the Amanta months which will always be offset from the Suklanta months by 15 days. When we talk of Samvatsara, we know that the samvatsara starts when Sun transits the First sign of the Zodiac, Aries. As the Suklanta year begins after the Sun has moved into Aries, the start of the Suklanta year shall always be after the Samvatsara has begun. As you said the Overlapping of the Suklanta Chaitra can only happen if the month begins before the Samvatasara, however thats not the case. Such overlapping can only happen in the case of Amanta calendar. This year is a very good example, where the lunar (amanta) year begun before the samvatsara. Let me try the questions you posed. 1) How do we determine the lord of the lunar year, lunar month, and lunar day? In case of the solar year, the day lord in on the day of solar transit to Aries becomes the lord of the year. In case of Lunar year (I am taking suklanta), the tithi is the basic construct for the same. So the first tithi lord becomes the year lord, thus Sun becomes the tithi lord. However, this is absurd. Here we see that the difference between solar and Lunar calendar is that the starts of the Solar Calendar is not tagged to any weekday, but lunar calendar is tagged to the tithi, i.e., Krsna Pratipada. So it is not possible to use the rules of lord of Solar year to the lunar year. I think, this should be the lord of the day when the lunar year has begun. The lord of the Day is the Hora rising in the preceeding Sunrise of the event. if this is so, then the same principle can be used for the Month. However the lunar day or tithi has clear rules for the lords. Which is based on the Weekday lords starting from Sun for Pratipad. 2) What is the difference between the lunar year lord, and solar year lord? I am speculating here. Lord of the Solar Year shall show what you will be doing in that year.... your focus. Whereas the Lunar year lord shall show what shall you be getting from the world in return.. "the rewards or punishments" 3) Why don't the lunar year, month and day coincide like the solar year? This is because Sun forms the basis of any time calculation. Moon's motion is not in perfect synchronity with that of Sun if we take the domain to be one year and thats the reason why the Year, Month and day donot coincide like the solar year. This was my few thoughts... Best Wishes Sarajit - "Ajit Krishnan" <astro <varahamihira > Sunday, April 06, 2003 3:52 AM Re: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: mudgala panchanga > hamsa om soham> > Dear Sarajit,> > What you have written makes sense based on the motion of the sun, and is> applicable to solar years, solar months and solar days. The lord of the> first sunrise following sankranti also rules the first solar month, and the> solar year.> > An excerpt from the report of the Indian Calendar Reform Committee:> > "Purnimanta lunar month begins a fortnight before the initial new moon of> amanta lunar month, after which it is named, and ends in the middle of that> amanta month...> > The peculiar and somewhat perplexing feature of the purnimanta lunar> calendar is that the first month of the year, that is, Chaitra and the year> itself do not start at the same time. The year starts, like the amanta lunar> calendar, which the ending of amavasya (new moon) in the solar month of> Chaitra, but the month of Chaitra of this calendar starts about a fortnight> earlier with the ending of purnima, that is with the full moon. This means> that for the Purnimanta lunar calendar the year starts in the middle of the> month of lunar Chaitra, resulting in the counting of the first half of> Chaitra, that is vadi or krishna Chaitra, as part of the previous samvat> year, and the latter half of Chaitra, that is sudi or shukla Chaitra, as a> part of the the next year, meaning that the new year commences with the> beginning of the latter half of Chaitra, which is sudi Chaitra."> > So, this gives rise to some questions:> 1) How do we determine the lord of the lunar year, lunar month, and lunar> day?> 2) What is the difference between the lunar year lord, and solar year lord?> 3) Why don't the lunar year, month and day coincide like the solar year?> > ajit> > -> "Sarajit Poddar" <sarajit> Thursday, April 03, 2003 11:59 PM> Re: [sJC: Varahamihira] Re: mudgala panchanga> > > > || Jaya Jagannath ||> > Dear Gurudev/ Ajit,> >> > One more reason to show the absurdity of day change at times other than> > the Sunrise.> >> > We know that the day is lorded by the lord of the day rising at the> > sunrise (or day start). This infact becomes the year lord too. Thus the> > hora lord rising with Sunrise (apparent of actual) on the day of the> > samkranti defines the lord of the year.> > ...> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.