Guest guest Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Sanjyaji, Namaste. What is your answer to this one? Yours, Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer gauranga Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET Phone:+36-309-140-839 - " Shyamasundara (das) ACBSP (Vedic Astrologer) (USA) " <Shyamasundara.ACBSP " Astrology " <Astrology; " Vedic Astrology (Symposium hosted by Shyamasundara Das) " <Vedic.Astrology; " sateesh batas " <makara Cc: " Jyotish Services " <Jyotish.Services; " Ministry of Jyotish " <Ministry.of.Jyotish Friday, July 18, 2003 10:15 PM Answer to quiz > Answer to quiz > > > Last week I wrote: > > Some time ago Mr. Rath sent the following text to this forum. I propose a > quiz to the members of this forum. Mr. Rath is fond of trying to stump > others and show his superiority by asking astro-trivia questions such as > " Why do Mars, Jupiter and Saturn have special aspects? " He asked me that > question via one of his students sometime ago. (He did the same to KN Rao.) > My response to this and other such silly questions is that it is much more > important to know things like how to answer the questions of those whose > charts you are reading like: should I move to X, Y or Z? And answer them > correctly. > > Another of his trivia questions was to ask why (astrologically) did Lord > Rama have to spend 14 years in the forest? > > In the following text he reveals the " answer " to this question. Can anyone > tell us why the example that he uses regarding the chart of Lord Rama is > completely wrong? > > I will wait for 1 week to see if anyone has the answer. If no one comes up > with it I will give it. > > > Shyama > ________________ > > First to refresh your memory here is the example that Mr. Rath gives. > Comments follow: > ______________________________ > > The Moola Dasa of Bhagwan Shri Ram began from Moon and is given in the > following Table. Readers will appreciate that the periods are exactly as per > the Ramayana. Sri Rama was exiled (Vanvas) during the Saturn Dasa for 14 > years > starting from His 24th year. > > Dasa > Period > Age > Remarks > > Jupiter > 10 > 10 > Janma > > Moon > 10 > 20 > Shiksha & Janaki Vivaha, and > > Mars > 3 > 23 > Diksha (by Vishwamitra) > > Saturn > 14 > 37 > Dandakaranya (Vanvas) > > Sun > 1 > 38 > Simhasana > > Venus > 12 > 50 > Mantra Pada (Sita is banished and birth of sons - Luv & Kush) > > Rahu > 17 > 67 > End of all Rakshasha/demons > > Ketu > 3 > 70 > Establishment of 'Eka Patni Dharma' in the world > > Mercury > 13 > 83 > Dharma (establishment of dharma in the world) > > ___ > > First we point out that several others have given some good answers as to > why this is incorrect but now I will point out three reasons why this is > wrong. Two are weak, one is strong. First the weak reasons: > > 1) Mr Rath says: " Readers will appreciate that the periods are exactly as > per > the Ramayana. " In his analysis he says that Rama got diksha from Visvamitra > during Mars Dasa which he has calculated to be between 20-23. But according > to the Valmiki Ramayana (Gita Press edition) 1.20.2 Rama was less than 16, > that is 15 years of age when Visvamitra took him to kill that Rakshasas and > at which time he was initiated into the use of celestial missiles. He was > also married to Sita Devi at the age of 15. After the marriage and return to > Ayodhya of the all the four married couples we don't hear much about > Visvamitra what to speak of his giving Diksa to Rama. This all took lace > prior to the wedding. > > 2) Mr. Ratha says Rama was sent to the forest at the beginning of Sani Dasa > or 24 years of age. But according to Valmiki Ramayana 2.20.45 Sri Rama was > 27 years old at the time of exile. This is confirmed by the Padma Purana, > Uttarakhanda 250.19.181-183 (as quoted by Gita Press editors) where it says > that the exile happened 12 years after the marriage of Rama to Sita, which > took place at age 15. > > However, Mr. Rath is quite capable of juggling numbers to smooth out these > minor problems. > > 3) To understand what in my opinion is the real problem with this example of > using Lord Rama's chart for this or any example of a Dasa system we must > first read what Varaha Mihira states in Brhat Jataka 7.5: > > " Now the maximum lengths of lives of different creatures are being stated: > Men and elephants live highest up to 120 years and 5 days; horses, 32 years; > camels and asses, 25 years; bullocks and buffaloes, 24 years; dogs (and > clawed animals) 12 years; goats, rams and deer, etc, 16 years. " > > Bhattotpala the commentator says that Varaha Mihira has given this to mean > that if you want to calculate the ayurdaya of a creature other than a man > then you take the same method of calculation but apply it proportionally. > Thus since clawed animals like dogs have a maximum of 12 (human) years > longevity. And since 120/12 = 10 then the duration of the planetary periods > used for dogs should be those used for humans divided by 10. > > The point he is making is that Dasa systems have to relate to the life span > of the species in question. Indeed Parasara Muni states in Brhat Parasara > Hora Sastra 46.14 " In Kali Yuga the natural lifespan of a human is generally > taken as 120 years. Therefore, Vimshottari Dasa (120 year system) is > considered to be the most appropriate and the best of all Dasas. " [Ranjan > edition] > > The problem with Mr. Rath's example is that he is trying to fit a Kali Yuga > Dasa system (we will leave aside any debate as to whether the Dasa itself is > bona fide) on a personality Who appeared during the Treta Yuga, a Yuga when > the average lifespan was not 100 years but 10,000 years. Indeed many > personalities lived well beyond a mere 10,000 years. Valmiki himself > underwent 60,000 years of tapasya and that didn't use up his lifespan. > Dasaratha also lived much longer than 10,000 years; in the Ramayana > 1.20-8-15 he tells us that he was 60,000 years old when Lord Rama was born. > And what to speak of His whole lifespan, just in His lamentation at the > exile of Sita Lord Rama performed agnihotra yajnas for 13,000 years. Thus to > try and fit a Kali Yuga Dasa system on Treta Yuga beings is not correct, but > futile. If we want to apply such systems then we have to follow the > suggestion of Varahara Mihira who tells us that the Dasa system must be > proportional to the expected lifespan. > > Since the expected lifespan in Treta Yuga is 10,000 years, that is 100 X 100 > years then that means that any Kali Yuga system, if it were at all > applicable-we don't know what Dasa systems were used in Treta Yuga or if we > can apply a Kali Yuga Dasa to Treta Yuga even after making them > proportional-would have to be multiplied by a factor of 100. Thus in the > example of Mr Rath above the Saturn period would not be 14 years long but > rather 1400 years long. Similarly all the periods would have to be > multiplied by 100. Since he has Jupiter as the opening period with a Kali > Yuga length of 10 years then for Treta Yuga it would be 1000 years long > which would include marriage, exile in the forest and killing of Ravana. > > If he or anyone else says that such long lifespans as mentioned in the > Ramayana are mythological or exageration then that just means the person has > performed Sastra-ninda, and is a Nastika -- atheist and not worthy of > speaking to and should be shunned by the wise. > > Your humble servant > > Shyamasundara Dasa > > www.ShyamasundaraDasa.com > > > > ---- HIRDETES ---- > Már több mint 60.000-en regisztráltak 3746 iskolából! > Csatlakozz Te is az ország egyik legdinamikusabban növekvö közösségéhez! > Osztálytársaid már várnak! > http://ads2.adverticum.net/b/cl,1,4008,22323,29215/click.prm > ---- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 Dear Gauranga Jaya Jagannatha. What to do? Please ask him for his answer as to why Mars, Saturn & jupiter have special aspects..again. And when he has that answer then we will talk of bigger things. Understanding Brahma vidya is not as simple a matter. Also forward him the three alternatives of Moola dasa and tell him that alternative-3 is the best so far. We have formed a team to study this more and hope that in this life time will understand it. At least we try to undestand. Has he found the answer to 14 years of saturn for Rama. No? Leave it. he will never get that answer. He will be happy with simple charts and making some general talk with rasi and navamsa. I don't have the time and inclination for this waste of time. Jyotish needs a very high level of intelligence. As regards years can he say why parasara says that the life of man is 120 years and what is the meaning of this for other yuga where we know that it is 120/125, 250, 500 and 1000 years. When he gets the answer to this, we will talk further. Till then kindly spare me. Besides I am sure parasara also knew this. So according to him Brihat Parasara Hora Shastra was not applicable to Treta or other yuga. I see. When does he think BPHS was written/authored. Kali yuga?? So please ask him if the teachings of Sri Krishna in the Bhavishya Purana and other such literature on Jyotish are applicable to this yuga or not. If they are not applicable then we should not be reading this. Can he please enlighten us. ~ om tat sat ~ Yours truly, Sanjay Rath --------------------------- H-5, B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India, +91-674-2436871 http://srath.com <http://srath.com> --------------------------- Gauranga Das [gauranga] Sunday, July 20, 2003 7:41 PM varahamihira |Sri Varaha| Fw: Answer to quiz JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Sanjyaji, Namaste. What is your answer to this one? Yours, Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer gauranga Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET Phone:+36-309-140-839 - " Shyamasundara (das) ACBSP (Vedic Astrologer) (USA) " <Shyamasundara.ACBSP " Astrology " <Astrology; " Vedic Astrology (Symposium hosted by Shyamasundara Das) " <Vedic.Astrology; " sateesh batas " <makara Cc: " Jyotish Services " <Jyotish.Services; " Ministry of Jyotish " <Ministry.of.Jyotish Friday, July 18, 2003 10:15 PM Answer to quiz > Answer to quiz > > > Last week I wrote: > > Some time ago Mr. Rath sent the following text to this forum. I propose a > quiz to the members of this forum. Mr. Rath is fond of trying to stump > others and show his superiority by asking astro-trivia questions such as > " Why do Mars, Jupiter and Saturn have special aspects? " He asked me that > question via one of his students sometime ago. (He did the same to KN Rao.) > My response to this and other such silly questions is that it is much more > important to know things like how to answer the questions of those whose > charts you are reading like: should I move to X, Y or Z? And answer them > correctly. > > Another of his trivia questions was to ask why (astrologically) did Lord > Rama have to spend 14 years in the forest? > > In the following text he reveals the " answer " to this question. Can anyone > tell us why the example that he uses regarding the chart of Lord Rama is > completely wrong? > > I will wait for 1 week to see if anyone has the answer. If no one comes up > with it I will give it. > > > Shyama > ________________ > > First to refresh your memory here is the example that Mr. Rath gives. > Comments follow: > ______________________________ > > The Moola Dasa of Bhagwan Shri Ram began from Moon and is given in the > following Table. Readers will appreciate that the periods are exactly as per > the Ramayana. Sri Rama was exiled (Vanvas) during the Saturn Dasa for 14 > years > starting from His 24th year. > > Dasa > Period > Age > Remarks > > Jupiter > 10 > 10 > Janma > > Moon > 10 > 20 > Shiksha & Janaki Vivaha, and > > Mars > 3 > 23 > Diksha (by Vishwamitra) > > Saturn > 14 > 37 > Dandakaranya (Vanvas) > > Sun > 1 > 38 > Simhasana > > Venus > 12 > 50 > Mantra Pada (Sita is banished and birth of sons - Luv & Kush) > > Rahu > 17 > 67 > End of all Rakshasha/demons > > Ketu > 3 > 70 > Establishment of 'Eka Patni Dharma' in the world > > Mercury > 13 > 83 > Dharma (establishment of dharma in the world) > > ___ > > First we point out that several others have given some good answers as to > why this is incorrect but now I will point out three reasons why this is > wrong. Two are weak, one is strong. First the weak reasons: > > 1) Mr Rath says: " Readers will appreciate that the periods are exactly as > per > the Ramayana. " In his analysis he says that Rama got diksha from Visvamitra > during Mars Dasa which he has calculated to be between 20-23. But according > to the Valmiki Ramayana (Gita Press edition) 1.20.2 Rama was less than 16, > that is 15 years of age when Visvamitra took him to kill that Rakshasas and > at which time he was initiated into the use of celestial missiles. He was > also married to Sita Devi at the age of 15. After the marriage and return to > Ayodhya of the all the four married couples we don't hear much about > Visvamitra what to speak of his giving Diksa to Rama. This all took lace > prior to the wedding. > > 2) Mr. Ratha says Rama was sent to the forest at the beginning of Sani Dasa > or 24 years of age. But according to Valmiki Ramayana 2.20.45 Sri Rama was > 27 years old at the time of exile. This is confirmed by the Padma Purana, > Uttarakhanda 250.19.181-183 (as quoted by Gita Press editors) where it says > that the exile happened 12 years after the marriage of Rama to Sita, which > took place at age 15. > > However, Mr. Rath is quite capable of juggling numbers to smooth out these > minor problems. > > 3) To understand what in my opinion is the real problem with this example of > using Lord Rama's chart for this or any example of a Dasa system we must > first read what Varaha Mihira states in Brhat Jataka 7.5: > > " Now the maximum lengths of lives of different creatures are being stated: > Men and elephants live highest up to 120 years and 5 days; horses, 32 years; > camels and asses, 25 years; bullocks and buffaloes, 24 years; dogs (and > clawed animals) 12 years; goats, rams and deer, etc, 16 years. " > > Bhattotpala the commentator says that Varaha Mihira has given this to mean > that if you want to calculate the ayurdaya of a creature other than a man > then you take the same method of calculation but apply it proportionally. > Thus since clawed animals like dogs have a maximum of 12 (human) years > longevity. And since 120/12 = 10 then the duration of the planetary periods > used for dogs should be those used for humans divided by 10. > > The point he is making is that Dasa systems have to relate to the life span > of the species in question. Indeed Parasara Muni states in Brhat Parasara > Hora Sastra 46.14 " In Kali Yuga the natural lifespan of a human is generally > taken as 120 years. Therefore, Vimshottari Dasa (120 year system) is > considered to be the most appropriate and the best of all Dasas. " [Ranjan > edition] > > The problem with Mr. Rath's example is that he is trying to fit a Kali Yuga > Dasa system (we will leave aside any debate as to whether the Dasa itself is > bona fide) on a personality Who appeared during the Treta Yuga, a Yuga when > the average lifespan was not 100 years but 10,000 years. Indeed many > personalities lived well beyond a mere 10,000 years. Valmiki himself > underwent 60,000 years of tapasya and that didn't use up his lifespan. > Dasaratha also lived much longer than 10,000 years; in the Ramayana > 1.20-8-15 he tells us that he was 60,000 years old when Lord Rama was born. > And what to speak of His whole lifespan, just in His lamentation at the > exile of Sita Lord Rama performed agnihotra yajnas for 13,000 years. Thus to > try and fit a Kali Yuga Dasa system on Treta Yuga beings is not correct, but > futile. If we want to apply such systems then we have to follow the > suggestion of Varahara Mihira who tells us that the Dasa system must be > proportional to the expected lifespan. > > Since the expected lifespan in Treta Yuga is 10,000 years, that is 100 X 100 > years then that means that any Kali Yuga system, if it were at all > applicable-we don't know what Dasa systems were used in Treta Yuga or if we > can apply a Kali Yuga Dasa to Treta Yuga even after making them > proportional-would have to be multiplied by a factor of 100. Thus in the > example of Mr Rath above the Saturn period would not be 14 years long but > rather 1400 years long. Similarly all the periods would have to be > multiplied by 100. Since he has Jupiter as the opening period with a Kali > Yuga length of 10 years then for Treta Yuga it would be 1000 years long > which would include marriage, exile in the forest and killing of Ravana. > > If he or anyone else says that such long lifespans as mentioned in the > Ramayana are mythological or exageration then that just means the person has > performed Sastra-ninda, and is a Nastika -- atheist and not worthy of > speaking to and should be shunned by the wise. > > Your humble servant > > Shyamasundara Dasa > > www.ShyamasundaraDasa.com > > > > ---- HIRDETES ---- > Már több mint 60.000-en regisztráltak 3746 iskolából! > Csatlakozz Te is az ország egyik legdinamikusabban növekvö közösségéhez! > Osztálytársaid már várnak! > http://ads2.adverticum.net/b/cl,1,4008,22323,29215/click.prm > ---- > > |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 || Om Gam Glaum Ganapathaye Vighnavinaashine Svaaha || Dear Gauranga, There you go again. You are at it ... once more. There is no stopping is there ... what are you made of??? Is there any decency still left in you ... forwarding these idiotic mails. Have you ever considered stopping Shyamasundara's verbal and written diarrhoea! An answer will be provided only if proper decorum and attitude is adopted by the questioner. His main aim is mud-slinging, which you are propogating SHAMELESSLY ...and you call yourself Sanjayji's shishya (Ofcourse you may have an ulterior motive here)!!! You call this a QUIZ ... are you sure this is a QUIZ ... ask a 2 yr old to summarize his email ... and I am confident even a toddler wont fail to miss out the obvious hurt, anger and displeasure hidden behind this mail! As far as the answer is concerned .. it is very obvious. Please take some time to think about it ... instead of forwarding such idle-mind- in-a-devils-workshop mails!!! Camouflaging ignorance with arrogance is not the answer! Please Take Care -Narayan varahamihira , Gauranga Das <gauranga@b...> wrote: > JAYA JAGANNATHA! > > Dear Sanjyaji, > > Namaste. > > What is your answer to this one? > > Yours, > > Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer > gauranga@b... > Jyotish Remedies: > WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET > Phone:+36-309-140-839 > > > > - > " Shyamasundara (das) ACBSP (Vedic Astrologer) (USA) " > <Shyamasundara.ACBSP@p...> > " Astrology " <Astrology@p...>; " Vedic Astrology (Symposium hosted by > Shyamasundara Das) " <Vedic.Astrology@p...>; " sateesh batas " > <makara@n...> > Cc: " Jyotish Services " <Jyotish.Services@p...>; " Ministry of Jyotish " > <Ministry.of.Jyotish@p...> > Friday, July 18, 2003 10:15 PM > Answer to quiz > > > > Answer to quiz > > > > > > Last week I wrote: > > > > Some time ago Mr. Rath sent the following text to this forum. I propose a > > quiz to the members of this forum. Mr. Rath is fond of trying to stump > > others and show his superiority by asking astro-trivia questions such as > > " Why do Mars, Jupiter and Saturn have special aspects? " He asked me that > > question via one of his students sometime ago. (He did the same to KN > Rao.) > > My response to this and other such silly questions is that it is much more > > important to know things like how to answer the questions of those whose > > charts you are reading like: should I move to X, Y or Z? And answer them > > correctly. > > > > Another of his trivia questions was to ask why (astrologically) did Lord > > Rama have to spend 14 years in the forest? > > > > In the following text he reveals the " answer " to this question. Can anyone > > tell us why the example that he uses regarding the chart of Lord Rama is > > completely wrong? > > > > I will wait for 1 week to see if anyone has the answer. If no one comes up > > with it I will give it. > > > > > > Shyama > > ________________ > > > > First to refresh your memory here is the example that Mr. Rath gives. > > Comments follow: > > ______________________________ > > > > The Moola Dasa of Bhagwan Shri Ram began from Moon and is given in the > > following Table. Readers will appreciate that the periods are exactly as > per > > the Ramayana. Sri Rama was exiled (Vanvas) during the Saturn Dasa for 14 > > years > > starting from His 24th year. > > > > Dasa > > Period > > Age > > Remarks > > > > Jupiter > > 10 > > 10 > > Janma > > > > Moon > > 10 > > 20 > > Shiksha & Janaki Vivaha, and > > > > Mars > > 3 > > 23 > > Diksha (by Vishwamitra) > > > > Saturn > > 14 > > 37 > > Dandakaranya (Vanvas) > > > > Sun > > 1 > > 38 > > Simhasana > > > > Venus > > 12 > > 50 > > Mantra Pada (Sita is banished and birth of sons - Luv & Kush) > > > > Rahu > > 17 > > 67 > > End of all Rakshasha/demons > > > > Ketu > > 3 > > 70 > > Establishment of 'Eka Patni Dharma' in the world > > > > Mercury > > 13 > > 83 > > Dharma (establishment of dharma in the world) > > > > ___ > > > > First we point out that several others have given some good answers as to > > why this is incorrect but now I will point out three reasons why this is > > wrong. Two are weak, one is strong. First the weak reasons: > > > > 1) Mr Rath says: " Readers will appreciate that the periods are exactly as > > per > > the Ramayana. " In his analysis he says that Rama got diksha from > Visvamitra > > during Mars Dasa which he has calculated to be between 20-23. But > according > > to the Valmiki Ramayana (Gita Press edition) 1.20.2 Rama was less than 16, > > that is 15 years of age when Visvamitra took him to kill that Rakshasas > and > > at which time he was initiated into the use of celestial missiles. He was > > also married to Sita Devi at the age of 15. After the marriage and return > to > > Ayodhya of the all the four married couples we don't hear much about > > Visvamitra what to speak of his giving Diksa to Rama. This all took lace > > prior to the wedding. > > > > 2) Mr. Ratha says Rama was sent to the forest at the beginning of Sani > Dasa > > or 24 years of age. But according to Valmiki Ramayana 2.20.45 Sri Rama was > > 27 years old at the time of exile. This is confirmed by the Padma Purana, > > Uttarakhanda 250.19.181-183 (as quoted by Gita Press editors) where it > says > > that the exile happened 12 years after the marriage of Rama to Sita, which > > took place at age 15. > > > > However, Mr. Rath is quite capable of juggling numbers to smooth out these > > minor problems. > > > > 3) To understand what in my opinion is the real problem with this example > of > > using Lord Rama's chart for this or any example of a Dasa system we must > > first read what Varaha Mihira states in Brhat Jataka 7.5: > > > > " Now the maximum lengths of lives of different creatures are being stated: > > Men and elephants live highest up to 120 years and 5 days; horses, 32 > years; > > camels and asses, 25 years; bullocks and buffaloes, 24 years; dogs (and > > clawed animals) 12 years; goats, rams and deer, etc, 16 years. " > > > > Bhattotpala the commentator says that Varaha Mihira has given this to mean > > that if you want to calculate the ayurdaya of a creature other than a man > > then you take the same method of calculation but apply it proportionally. > > Thus since clawed animals like dogs have a maximum of 12 (human) years > > longevity. And since 120/12 = 10 then the duration of the planetary > periods > > used for dogs should be those used for humans divided by 10. > > > > The point he is making is that Dasa systems have to relate to the life > span > > of the species in question. Indeed Parasara Muni states in Brhat Parasara > > Hora Sastra 46.14 " In Kali Yuga the natural lifespan of a human is > generally > > taken as 120 years. Therefore, Vimshottari Dasa (120 year system) is > > considered to be the most appropriate and the best of all Dasas. " [Ranjan > > edition] > > > > The problem with Mr. Rath's example is that he is trying to fit a Kali > Yuga > > Dasa system (we will leave aside any debate as to whether the Dasa itself > is > > bona fide) on a personality Who appeared during the Treta Yuga, a Yuga > when > > the average lifespan was not 100 years but 10,000 years. Indeed many > > personalities lived well beyond a mere 10,000 years. Valmiki himself > > underwent 60,000 years of tapasya and that didn't use up his lifespan. > > Dasaratha also lived much longer than 10,000 years; in the Ramayana > > 1.20-8-15 he tells us that he was 60,000 years old when Lord Rama was > born. > > And what to speak of His whole lifespan, just in His lamentation at the > > exile of Sita Lord Rama performed agnihotra yajnas for 13,000 years. Thus > to > > try and fit a Kali Yuga Dasa system on Treta Yuga beings is not correct, > but > > futile. If we want to apply such systems then we have to follow the > > suggestion of Varahara Mihira who tells us that the Dasa system must be > > proportional to the expected lifespan. > > > > Since the expected lifespan in Treta Yuga is 10,000 years, that is 100 X > 100 > > years then that means that any Kali Yuga system, if it were at all > > applicable-we don't know what Dasa systems were used in Treta Yuga or if > we > > can apply a Kali Yuga Dasa to Treta Yuga even after making them > > proportional-would have to be multiplied by a factor of 100. Thus in the > > example of Mr Rath above the Saturn period would not be 14 years long but > > rather 1400 years long. Similarly all the periods would have to be > > multiplied by 100. Since he has Jupiter as the opening period with a Kali > > Yuga length of 10 years then for Treta Yuga it would be 1000 years long > > which would include marriage, exile in the forest and killing of Ravana. > > > > If he or anyone else says that such long lifespans as mentioned in the > > Ramayana are mythological or exageration then that just means the person > has > > performed Sastra-ninda, and is a Nastika -- atheist and not worthy of > > speaking to and should be shunned by the wise. > > > > Your humble servant > > > > Shyamasundara Dasa > > > > www.ShyamasundaraDasa.com > > > > > > > > ---- HIRDETES ---- > > Már több mint 60.000-en regisztráltak 3746 iskolából! > > Csatlakozz Te is az ország egyik legdinamikusabban növekvö közösségéhez! > > Osztálytársaid már várnak! > > http://ads2.adverticum.net/b/cl,1,4008,22323,29215/click.prm > > ---- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Dear Gauranga, Those trying to ridicule Sanjay are forgetting that he is not only the greatest Jyotish scholar of our times, but the most open-minded Jyotish teacher around. He never claimed his teachings were final and always encourages his students to rise above blind faith and engage in the pursuit of perfect knowledge. As far as Rama's chart and Moola dasa are concerned, he urged us in a recent mail to do some more research. It speaks volumes about his uncompromising intellect. Those who are trying to dismiss Moola dasa altogether, based on the inconsistencies in its application to Rama's chart, are forgetting that Sanjay applied it to give perfect readings in many charts. As Sanjay himself acknowledged, there may be some little errors in his teachings, but the knowledge itself is basically bonafide. For example, those who were at Ukiah last year may remember that somebody gave the chart of Christopher Reeves and Sanjay found the curse on the spot, asked us to calculate Moola dasa and correctly pointed out when the curse fructified, without any prior knowledge of what happened to Mr. Reeves. There are many such examples. It is quite unfortunate that someone of the stature of Shyamasundara should display such negative attitude towards Sanjay. Had he discussed the same thing with a positive spirit, we could've actually had a very nice discussion. Some of the points being raised are good to discuss, but the tone smacks of arrogance and unjustified ridicule. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha > JAYA JAGANNATHA!> > Dear Sanjyaji,> > Namaste.> > What is your answer to this one?> > Yours,> > Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer> gauranga@b...> Jyotish Remedies:> WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET> Phone:+36-309-140-839> > -> "Shyamasundara (das) ACBSP (Vedic Astrologer) (USA)"> <Shyamasundara.ACBSP@p...>> "Astrology" <Astrology@p...>; "Vedic Astrology (Symposium hosted by> Shyamasundara Das)" <Vedic.Astrology@p...>; "sateesh batas"> <makara@n...>> Cc: "Jyotish Services" <Jyotish.Services@p...>; "Ministry of Jyotish"> <Ministry.of.Jyotish@p...>> Friday, July 18, 2003 10:15 PM> Answer to quiz> > > > Answer to quiz> >> >> > Last week I wrote:> >> > Some time ago Mr. Rath sent the following text to this forum. I propose a> > quiz to the members of this forum. Mr. Rath is fond of trying to stump> > others and show his superiority by asking astro-trivia questions such as> > "Why do Mars, Jupiter and Saturn have special aspects?" He asked me that> > question via one of his students sometime ago. (He did the same to KN> Rao.)> > My response to this and other such silly questions is that it is much more> > important to know things like how to answer the questions of those whose> > charts you are reading like: should I move to X, Y or Z? And answer them> > correctly.> >> > Another of his trivia questions was to ask why (astrologically) did Lord> > Rama have to spend 14 years in the forest?> >> > In the following text he reveals the "answer" to this question. Can anyone> > tell us why the example that he uses regarding the chart of Lord Rama is> > completely wrong?> >> > I will wait for 1 week to see if anyone has the answer. If no one comes up> > with it I will give it.> >> >> > Shyama> > ________________> >> > First to refresh your memory here is the example that Mr. Rath gives.> > Comments follow:> > ______________________________> >> > The Moola Dasa of Bhagwan Shri Ram began from Moon and is given in the> > following Table. Readers will appreciate that the periods are exactly as> per> > the Ramayana. Sri Rama was exiled (Vanvas) during the Saturn Dasa for 14> > years> > starting from His 24th year.> >> > Dasa> > Period> > Age> > Remarks> >> > Jupiter> > 10> > 10> > Janma> >> > Moon> > 10> > 20> > Shiksha & Janaki Vivaha, and> >> > Mars> > 3> > 23> > Diksha (by Vishwamitra)> >> > Saturn> > 14> > 37> > Dandakaranya (Vanvas)> >> > Sun> > 1> > 38> > Simhasana> >> > Venus> > 12> > 50> > Mantra Pada (Sita is banished and birth of sons - Luv & Kush)> >> > Rahu> > 17> > 67> > End of all Rakshasha/demons> >> > Ketu> > 3> > 70> > Establishment of 'Eka Patni Dharma' in the world> >> > Mercury> > 13> > 83> > Dharma (establishment of dharma in the world)> >> > ___> >> > First we point out that several others have given some good answers as to> > why this is incorrect but now I will point out three reasons why this is> > wrong. Two are weak, one is strong. First the weak reasons:> >> > 1) Mr Rath says: "Readers will appreciate that the periods are exactly as> > per> > the Ramayana." In his analysis he says that Rama got diksha from> Visvamitra> > during Mars Dasa which he has calculated to be between 20-23. But> according> > to the Valmiki Ramayana (Gita Press edition) 1.20.2 Rama was less than 16,> > that is 15 years of age when Visvamitra took him to kill that Rakshasas> and> > at which time he was initiated into the use of celestial missiles. He was> > also married to Sita Devi at the age of 15. After the marriage and return> to> > Ayodhya of the all the four married couples we don't hear much about> > Visvamitra what to speak of his giving Diksa to Rama. This all took lace> > prior to the wedding.> >> > 2) Mr. Ratha says Rama was sent to the forest at the beginning of Sani> Dasa> > or 24 years of age. But according to Valmiki Ramayana 2.20.45 Sri Rama was> > 27 years old at the time of exile. This is confirmed by the Padma Purana,> > Uttarakhanda 250.19.181-183 (as quoted by Gita Press editors) where it> says> > that the exile happened 12 years after the marriage of Rama to Sita, which> > took place at age 15.> >> > However, Mr. Rath is quite capable of juggling numbers to smooth out these> > minor problems.> >> > 3) To understand what in my opinion is the real problem with this example> of> > using Lord Rama's chart for this or any example of a Dasa system we must> > first read what Varaha Mihira states in Brhat Jataka 7.5:> >> > "Now the maximum lengths of lives of different creatures are being stated:> > Men and elephants live highest up to 120 years and 5 days; horses, 32> years;> > camels and asses, 25 years; bullocks and buffaloes, 24 years; dogs (and> > clawed animals) 12 years; goats, rams and deer, etc, 16 years."> >> > Bhattotpala the commentator says that Varaha Mihira has given this to mean> > that if you want to calculate the ayurdaya of a creature other than a man> > then you take the same method of calculation but apply it proportionally.> > Thus since clawed animals like dogs have a maximum of 12 (human) years> > longevity. And since 120/12 = 10 then the duration of the planetary> periods> > used for dogs should be those used for humans divided by 10.> >> > The point he is making is that Dasa systems have to relate to the life> span> > of the species in question. Indeed Parasara Muni states in Brhat Parasara> > Hora Sastra 46.14 "In Kali Yuga the natural lifespan of a human is> generally> > taken as 120 years. Therefore, Vimshottari Dasa (120 year system) is> > considered to be the most appropriate and the best of all Dasas." [Ranjan> > edition]> >> > The problem with Mr. Rath's example is that he is trying to fit a Kali> Yuga> > Dasa system (we will leave aside any debate as to whether the Dasa itself> is> > bona fide) on a personality Who appeared during the Treta Yuga, a Yuga> when> > the average lifespan was not 100 years but 10,000 years. Indeed many> > personalities lived well beyond a mere 10,000 years. Valmiki himself> > underwent 60,000 years of tapasya and that didn't use up his lifespan.> > Dasaratha also lived much longer than 10,000 years; in the Ramayana> > 1.20-8-15 he tells us that he was 60,000 years old when Lord Rama was> born.> > And what to speak of His whole lifespan, just in His lamentation at the> > exile of Sita Lord Rama performed agnihotra yajnas for 13,000 years. Thus> to> > try and fit a Kali Yuga Dasa system on Treta Yuga beings is not correct,> but> > futile. If we want to apply such systems then we have to follow the> > suggestion of Varahara Mihira who tells us that the Dasa system must be> > proportional to the expected lifespan.> >> > Since the expected lifespan in Treta Yuga is 10,000 years, that is 100 X> 100> > years then that means that any Kali Yuga system, if it were at all> > applicable-we don't know what Dasa systems were used in Treta Yuga or if> we> > can apply a Kali Yuga Dasa to Treta Yuga even after making them> > proportional-would have to be multiplied by a factor of 100. Thus in the> > example of Mr Rath above the Saturn period would not be 14 years long but> > rather 1400 years long. Similarly all the periods would have to be> > multiplied by 100. Since he has Jupiter as the opening period with a Kali> > Yuga length of 10 years then for Treta Yuga it would be 1000 years long> > which would include marriage, exile in the forest and killing of Ravana.> >> > If he or anyone else says that such long lifespans as mentioned in the> > Ramayana are mythological or exageration then that just means the person> has> > performed Sastra-ninda, and is a Nastika -- atheist and not worthy of> > speaking to and should be shunned by the wise.> >> > Your humble servant> >> > Shyamasundara Dasa> >> > www.ShyamasundaraDasa.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 ||Om Brihaspataye Namah|| Dear Narasimha, > Those trying to ridicule Sanjay are forgetting that he is not only > the greatest Jyotish scholar of our times, but the most open- > minded Jyotish teacher around. Greatness is not important here; one who is good need not prove it. What is more important is open-mindedness and spirit of giving/encouraging others to learn. Even a child asks questions, some of which could be silly; does it mean we should dismiss the child straightaway? Richard Feynman acknowledges his fathers attitude in answering all his questions (as a child) as being crucial to his mental development and subsequent development as a genius in physics. Wonder if Sanjay is running under the influence of the AK currently? regards Hari PS: What is the basis to determine the greatest of them all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Dear prabhus, PAMHO, AGTSP. > 1) Mr Rath says: " Readers will appreciate that the periods are exactly as > per > the Ramayana. " In his analysis he says that Rama got diksha from Visvamitra > during Mars Dasa which he has calculated to be between 20-23. But according > to the Valmiki Ramayana (Gita Press edition) 1.20.2 Rama was less than 16, > that is 15 years of age when Visvamitra took him to kill that Rakshasas and > at which time he was initiated into the use of celestial missiles. He was > also married to Sita Devi at the age of 15. After the marriage and return to > Ayodhya of the all the four married couples we don't hear much about > Visvamitra what to speak of his giving Diksa to Rama. This all took lace > prior to the wedding. I'm quoting the Sanskrit for the above mantioned Sloka 1.20.2. (2ns Shloka od 20th Sarga of Baalakanda) from Valmiki Ramayanam. pUrvamathaM pratishrutya pratijnAm hAtumicchasi rAghavaNam ayukto'ya kulasyAsya viparyayaH I don't recognise the word sixteen (shodasa) anywhere here. What can be wrong? Maybe the shloka number? Can anyone point to the right shloka? > 2) Mr. Ratha says Rama was sent to the forest at the beginning of Sani Dasa > or 24 years of age. But according to Valmiki Ramayana 2.20.45 Sri Rama was > 27 years old at the time of exile. This is confirmed by the Padma Purana, > Uttarakhanda 250.19.181-183 (as quoted by Gita Press editors) where it says > that the exile happened 12 years after the marriage of Rama to Sita, which > took place at age 15. Interestingly, the 20th Sarga of Ayodhyakanda has only 36 Shlokas, so could anyone point out the Sanskrit for the missing one? And the 250th Adhyaya of Uttarakhanad of the Padma Purana has only 92 Shlokas. So Shlokas 181-183 do not exist. And Shloka 19 is the following short one: svacApanirmuktena bANena taM parighaM ciccheda This speaks about Lord Siva's fight with Banasura if I'm not mistaken. But again, no mention of any numbers like 12 (dvadasa) in this shloka at least. So I think when we quote verses already quoted in some other text, it's useful to go back to the original text and check if these shlokas indeed exist. I was using the Sanskrit pdf files of Ramayana and Padma Purana which can be downloaded from the following site: http://mum.edu/vedicreserve/ However I have found the following quote from the Skanda Purana: Skanda Purana Book III Brahma Khand Section II: Dharmaranya-Khand Chapter 30 Sloka 12. In the twenty-seventh year of Rama, even as the King was to crown him heir apparent to the throne, Kaikeyi requested him for two boons. Slokas 13 - 14. With one of them Rama accompanied by Sita and Laksmana was to go in exile wearing matted hair, for fourteen years* " May my Bharata be the heir apparent " was the seocnd boon. It was due to being deluded by Manthara's words that she chose this boon. But for this I do not have the Sanskrit so if anyone has it please provide, also if anyone has info on the above missing Shlokas. Your servant, Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer gauranga Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET Phone:+36-309-140-839 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 > Camouflaging ignorance with arrogance is not the answer! Both parties have not transcended the levels imposed by secular langauges and secular slogans, secular education, viz science, technology degrees, jobs etc. Answer to gauranga's old question vide Sanjay's habits vs. holy book: 1. Heathens draw silver line b/w BELIEF and PRACTICE. 2. Practice is embodiment of beliefs, as per our armchair theologians of 1st century. This is strengthened by the secular sons of 'age of reason' 3. heathens dont have any belief system, whereas our brethern of christianity, muslim, judaism do; however, modern hindoo, thanks to british education, hallucinates of such beliefs thinking that his western master is superior due to his advancements in sci and tech. 4. Heathens do practice their customs, rituals; yet they debate about existence/non-existence of gods. 5. The gospel elegantly put in this way: 'Devils do believe GOD but tremble at him.' Who are devils here? our achaaryas, devas are DEVILS as per abrahamics. Where does our sacred secular liberal stand on this line? 6.The so called intentional psychology of the West presupposes theology. What is the purpose of theology? Its aim to strengthen their belief. Sciences sprang in this process to solidify their position. 7. There are no religions in India. If one were to say this, it should rise hackles of enlightened 'modern' hindu brothers. This shows their bankruptcy of understanding religion. After all, religion born in the west. The denotation of roman 'religio' to then pagans is diametrically opposite to the notion of 'religion' of christians. 8. Our christian cicero accuses Roman cicero as was seen in these arguments. 10. The problem is pretty simple: It is fashion for 'modern' hindoos and secular scholars of the west to look into the 'holy' books of hypothetical religion called 'hinduism' to get an idea of their beliefs, because christians have beliefs, to understand the practice of heathens. 11. Have not understand each other cf: Indian traditions, greeco- roman pagan traditions vs. religions that christianity, islam, judaism are. 12. Sanjay's habits are *not* embodiements of beliefs of 15th century hypothetical religion, hinduism. He is just practising his ancestral traditions, as opposed to the way of brethern of abrahamic culture. 13. Religion is an instance of Explanatory-intelligible account. For humans, it is in the form of religion, only one god, one truth. Indic traditions are not instance of this explanatory-intelligible account. But heathens practice is intelligible as scientific theories. 14. religions lay truth claims, whereas traditionalists pratice for truth indluding naastikas of indic traditions. For more, digest the nice thesis of Prof. SN Balagangadhara's book titled " The heathen in his blindness: The dynamic of religion, Asia, the west. " Esp people of western descent can grasp the arguments in that eassy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Dear Gauranga, Let me try to give you the Sanskrit shlokas from the Padma and Skanda Puranas. As I said, my version of the Padma Purana does not have an Uttara Khanda but has Swarga, Bhumi and Patala Khandas. My version is translated and edited by Acharya Panchanan Tarkaratna, a well known Sanskrit scholar from Bengal and published from Calcutta by Navabharat Publishers. Each of the three Khandams are enumerated afresh from chapter 1. If I add up all the chapters of the three Khandas I am still getting only 246 chapters or adhyayas. I will try and verify from another source/translation. The Skanda Purana shlokas are given below. I can also give them in Sanskrit 99 if anyone so desires. Skanda Purana, Brahma Khandam, Dharmaranyakhandam, Chapter 30. Shloka 12 Saptavimshatime varshe yauvarajyapradayakam rajanamatha kaikeyi varadvayamyachata The King (Dasharatha) coronated Rama as the crown prince in his 27th year. Kaikeyi asked for two varas. Shloka 13 tayorekena ramastu sasitaH sahalakshmanaH jatadharaH pravrajatam varshanniha chaturdasha The first was, that along with Sita and Lakshmana, Rama should spend 14 years of vanavasa as a mendicant (pravrajak) with matted locks. Shloka 14 bharatastu dvitiyena yauvarajyadhipohastu me mantharavachananmrira varametamayachata The second was that Bharat should reign as the Crown Prince. These varas were claimed largely under the provocation of Manthara. Best regards, Sarbani Gauranga Das [gauranga] Monday, July 21, 2003 10:48 PM Shyamasundara (das) ACBSP (Vedic Astrologer) (USA); Astrology; Vedic Astrology (Symposium hosted by Shyamasundara Das); sateesh batas Cc: Jyotish Services; Ministry of Jyotish; varahamihira |Sri Varaha| Re: Answer to quiz Dear prabhus, PAMHO, AGTSP. > 1) Mr Rath says: " Readers will appreciate that the periods are exactly as > per > the Ramayana. " In his analysis he says that Rama got diksha from Visvamitra > during Mars Dasa which he has calculated to be between 20-23. But according > to the Valmiki Ramayana (Gita Press edition) 1.20.2 Rama was less than 16, > that is 15 years of age when Visvamitra took him to kill that Rakshasas and > at which time he was initiated into the use of celestial missiles. He was > also married to Sita Devi at the age of 15. After the marriage and return to > Ayodhya of the all the four married couples we don't hear much about > Visvamitra what to speak of his giving Diksa to Rama. This all took lace > prior to the wedding. I'm quoting the Sanskrit for the above mantioned Sloka 1.20.2. (2ns Shloka od 20th Sarga of Baalakanda) from Valmiki Ramayanam. pUrvamathaM pratishrutya pratijnAm hAtumicchasi rAghavaNam ayukto'ya kulasyAsya viparyayaH I don't recognise the word sixteen (shodasa) anywhere here. What can be wrong? Maybe the shloka number? Can anyone point to the right shloka? > 2) Mr. Ratha says Rama was sent to the forest at the beginning of Sani Dasa > or 24 years of age. But according to Valmiki Ramayana 2.20.45 Sri Rama was > 27 years old at the time of exile. This is confirmed by the Padma Purana, > Uttarakhanda 250.19.181-183 (as quoted by Gita Press editors) where it says > that the exile happened 12 years after the marriage of Rama to Sita, which > took place at age 15. Interestingly, the 20th Sarga of Ayodhyakanda has only 36 Shlokas, so could anyone point out the Sanskrit for the missing one? And the 250th Adhyaya of Uttarakhanad of the Padma Purana has only 92 Shlokas. So Shlokas 181-183 do not exist. And Shloka 19 is the following short one: svacApanirmuktena bANena taM parighaM ciccheda This speaks about Lord Siva's fight with Banasura if I'm not mistaken. But again, no mention of any numbers like 12 (dvadasa) in this shloka at least. So I think when we quote verses already quoted in some other text, it's useful to go back to the original text and check if these shlokas indeed exist. I was using the Sanskrit pdf files of Ramayana and Padma Purana which can be downloaded from the following site: http://mum.edu/vedicreserve/ However I have found the following quote from the Skanda Purana: Skanda Purana Book III Brahma Khand Section II: Dharmaranya-Khand Chapter 30 Sloka 12. In the twenty-seventh year of Rama, even as the King was to crown him heir apparent to the throne, Kaikeyi requested him for two boons. Slokas 13 - 14. With one of them Rama accompanied by Sita and Laksmana was to go in exile wearing matted hair, for fourteen years* " May my Bharata be the heir apparent " was the seocnd boon. It was due to being deluded by Manthara's words that she chose this boon. But for this I do not have the Sanskrit so if anyone has it please provide, also if anyone has info on the above missing Shlokas. Your servant, Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer gauranga Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET Phone:+36-309-140-839 |Om Tat Sat| http://www.varahamihira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 Hare Rama Krsna : : Vyam Vyasadevya NamahPranam Thanks to all those who participated and it was great to see a great no of responses.Now the answer to the quiz : The native , is a soft spoken pretty girl, from a very rich traditional family, and was engaged out of sudden on the 13th feb , with the blessings of all her elders. her parents are in good health and the native herself is in good health, yet to start her career after her CA exams, and wil get married only after month of november.I would like to congratulate Branka, and Krishamurthy ji , and also (Pranav leaving a note in end. )My 2 cents: I am a beginner myself, so will like the views of learned members. now looking at dasha ,In naisargika dasha she is running venus-jupiter . venus dasha wil definitely give her marriage. venus and jupiter are in exchange in d-9 , thus jupiter strongly gives for 7th house .In vimshottri also running saturn-jupiter, both these planets are involved in exchange in D-1 and D-9 , giving venus lorded houses, and more so jupiter( not to say this marriage is decided by elders). In narayan dasha she is running virgo-sagi. the virgo is 9H with UL and A5 , while sagi has A9 , jupiter with lord of 9H mercury which is Dk. so this a start of Ul and A5 with blessings of elders.(Amit-the the paka and bhoga rashi would be sagi and not virgo, which falls again in trine from Al.) in the progression technique of sun in navamsa, since she is running 23 year , the sun would be in sagitarius which has rashi aspect on the 7th lord venus, meeting of the eligible partner.swati Namah Shivya : : Jai Shankara Om Shreem Mahalakshmayie Namah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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