Data used for the horoscope of Sri Krsna

July 30, 2006

Om Vishnave Namah

The following is the birth data for Sri Krsna that I used in my book

The Spiritual Dimensions of Vedic Astrology (I neglected to add it

at the end of my last post):

Sri Krsna

Natal Chart

June 23,

-3227

Time: 23:42:35

Time Zone: 5:10:00 (East of GMT)

Place: 77 E 41'

00 " , 27 N 25' 00 "

Ayanamsa: 48-17-59.39

The lagna should be 14Ta07.

Best wishes,

Robert

At 12:48 PM 7/30/2006, you wrote:

Om Vishnave Namah

Dear Lakshmi,

Namaste ~

I had been away from the Sohamsa list for a few days, and thus the delay

in responding to you. Thank you for your email and your kind words

regarding my book. It was my original desire that Jyotish scholars

such as yourself would read and enjoy this book, and so your positive

feedback is most encouraging.

You've raised a very interesting question regarding the chart of Lord Sri

Krsna as discussed in my book, and so let me respond to you as

follows: First, I would say that the horoscopes of Avataras are

most or less symbolic of much broader issues than the charts of ordinary

humans are, although recorded events associated with Their Lilas are

documented and can also be correlated to astrological principles in

certain ways. But for the most part, typical yogas, vargas,

planetary positions and strengths, and other principles we use to study

the charts of humans cannot, for example, tell us how Sri Krsna had

16,108 wives, or that he showed His mother the entire universe or

Virata-rupa within his mouth! That being said, the study of charts

of avataras is a fascinating study when we bear in mind (1) the

transcendental nature of such personalities as described in Vedic

scriptures; and (2) we make such as study making use of guidelines given

in classical texts such as Jataka Parijata, Prashna Marga, BPHS,

etc.

Now, in my book I referred to Jataka Parijata 4.97 in which some

astrological criteria for the charts of avataras was given. In that

text, it is suggested that the Sun, Jupiter, and Mars should be in the

9th house from lagna or that they should aspect it; that the Navamsa they

occupy is owned by the 9th house and also by Saturn (Cp and Aq) and that

they be in vargottamamsa; and further, that the Moon, in strength, should

occupy the lagna. Expansions on these points were given on page 363

of my book, and my conclusions were also made in consultation with Pt.

Sanjay Rath.

The gist of Sri Krsna's chart is as follows [the data for the chart I use

is given at the end of this email, for those who would like to follow

along with this discuss. I recommend calculating this chart only

with the JHora software, as other software will given different and

erroneous results]: In the rasi chart, The Sun, Mars, and Jupiter

all aspect the 9th house, which is the sign Capricorn, while the exalted

Moon occupies the lagna; in Navamsa, the vargottama Moon occupies the

lagna, while Jupiter occupies the 9th house. Mars aspects the 9th

house, while the Sun reaches the 9th house by way of Mercury's

dispositorship. Now, why should the avatara of Sri Krsna - and

incarnation of Vishnu - have Jupiter debilitated in the 9th house of the

Dharmamsa chart? It is because the purpose of such avataras is to

reinstate Dharma first of all; that such avataras appear toward the end

of a yuga; and further that (according to shastras) the time at which Sri

Krsna appeared was just prior to the onset of Kali-yuga.

Jupiter's neecha thus is not a reflection on Sri Krsna's dharma, but

the fact that his incarnation served to protect dharma at time when it

was to become very compromised.

The Kali-yuga rasi is Capricorn. Thus if in the Navamsa chart

of Sri Krsna Jupiter occupies Cp in the 9th house, it not only satisfies

part of the criteria of Jataka Parijata for an avatara as given above,

but especially of one who appears prior to the onset of the dangerous age

of Kali. In Cp, Jupiter symbolizes a diminishing of the Tamasic

effects of Mars and Saturn who are strong in that sign, and who tend to

reign in Kali-yuga. Thus in Kali-yuga, or just prior to its

occurrence, the avatara protects dharma in the sign of Capricorn and in

the 9th house, as found in the proposed Navamsa chart of Sri Krsna.

As for the Shastiamsa chart of Sri Krsna, I cannot give any commentary,

as to my knowledge there are no specific directives given in classics for

the D-60 in charts of avataras.

In summary, my point is that - while it is interesting to correlate

events to the charts of such avataras - the overriding purpose of such

study is to validate with linear models their superhuman purpose of

appearance as per classical texts. We can, in other words, never

apply verbatim the principles given and study them in the identical ways

that we would to study the charts of ordinary humans.

Otherwise, how could child Krsna lift an entire mountain (Govardhana

giri) with is pinky finger, when He had Mars in debilitation in his rasi

chart?

Thank you for raising some very interesting questions and points of

view. I will be interested in hearing more of your feedback on this

subject. I will be leaving town on Tuesday for the annual SJC

conference in California, but I can respond to you from my laptop as

well.

Best wishes and warm regards,

Robert

At 03:45 AM 7/26/2006, you wrote:

Om Gurave Namah

Namaste Robert ji,

First of all let me congratulate you on your excellent book. It was

a great pleasure reading it.

However, I do have a small doubt regarding the chart of Sri Krishna.

In your book it is stated that in His chart, Jupiter is debilitated

in 9th house, because Sri Krishna avatara was for the purpose of

reinstating dharma. But, in this respect, I feel that the

debilitation of Sun or Jupiter, in the D-60 chart, would be a more

logical pointer to the advent of an avatara (in any yuga), because

these two planets indicate dharma and their fall would be the cause

for Bhagavan's advent, as the Lord himself said " yada yada hi

dharmasya glaanirbhavathi Bhaarata " . Libra, as the cardinal vayu

tattwa sign and the exaltation sign, is also intimately connected to

Saturn.

>From my perspective navamsa (as Dharmamsa) is the strength of the

chart/planets/native, while shashtyamsa (d-60) indicates the karmic

seed of the present birth. Though all the results we reap in the

present birth are moderated/interpreted by the karma we accrued in

the previous births, I do not think shashtyamsa has the over-riding

power which navamsa/dharma, alone has.

So, it is sort of inconceivable for me that Sri Krishna's navamsa

can have Sun or Jupiter in debilitation. In the navamsa chart given

by Sri Raman, Jupiter is in Sagittarius (7th house) in navamsa,

while Sun is equally strong in 4th house…and I personally think

that's a more appropriate position….with minor modifications.

In Sri Rama's navamsa, I think neither Jupiter nor Sun is

debilitated. Same is the case with Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's chart. In

Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's chart Sun is debilitated in D-60, as in Swami

Vivekananda's chart. It may not be the case with the charts of

avadhutas.

Requesting your inputs on the above.

Regards,

Lakshmi

July 31, 2006

|| Om Gurave Namah ||Dear Robertji and Jyotishas, I also read another chart for Lord Krishna in Shree Jayanti Chapter of KaalaPrakshika of Narasimhan acharya. The details of the chart are in the following link, Please give your opinion on this one too,

http://sanjayprabhakaran.blogspot.com/2005/11/shree-jayanti.htmlPanchanga at Birth is

Nakshatra: Rohini 4th PadaKarana: KaulavaYoga: HarshanaTithi: Krishna Ashtami (K8)Vaara : WednesdayTaurus Lagna.Warm RegardsSanjay P

On 7/30/06, Robert Koch <rk wrote: