Guest guest Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 |om|Dear Jyotisas,In the context of an 'arranged' marriage, if the marriage proceedings break up post-engagement, is the root UL (1st UL) still valid or do we move to the 8th from the root UL? Suppose that a person gets married and the spouse dies within 2 months of the marriage, is the root UL still valid or do we move on to the 8th from the root UL? What is the time frame we are talking here i.e., is the UL valid for a day or week or month or year or decades? Suppose that a person chooses a person as a spouse but suddenly decides that person is not worthy of being a spouse (pre-engagement), is the root UL still valid or we have to move on to the 8th from that UL? best regards,Hari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Dear Revered Gurus, I have few things to add here in question list... How do we see opposition in love/opposition in marriage separately... Sometimes, girl gets married to a boy and mother-in-law/ father-in-law/other-in-laws may create problems in the marriage.. This is opposition after marriage.. Other case, one of the parent family may oppose for the marriage and the " love couple " is not married.. Do we take 2nd UL(8th/6th from UL) in case of only marriage (ritual marriage or court marriage) ,Do we see commitment also a marriage(I guess its no) .. Best wishes and Regards Amit sohamsa , " Jyotisa Shisya " <achyutagaddi wrote: > > |om| > Dear Jyotisas, > > In the context of an 'arranged' marriage, if the marriage proceedings break > up post-engagement, is the root UL (1st UL) still valid or do we move to the > 8th from the root UL? > > Suppose that a person gets married and the spouse dies within 2 months of > the marriage, is the root UL still valid or do we move on to the 8th from > the root UL? What is the time frame we are talking here i.e., is the UL > valid for a day or week or month or year or decades? > > Suppose that a person chooses a person as a spouse but suddenly decides that > person is not worthy of being a spouse (pre-engagement), is the root UL > still valid or we have to move on to the 8th from that UL? > > best regards, > Hari > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 |om|Dear Amit, namasteOpposition to marriage is seen by looking at the planets in the 7th from UL...for example, Maneka Gandhi had Chandra in the 7th from UL and it is known that her mother-in-law opposed her. Planets in the 12th to UL can indicate the secret opposition of people or people who are not there at the time of marriage...for example, Sun in 12th to UL can show that the father-in-law is not present at the time of marriage or secretly opposes the union. What do you mean by commitment in a marriage? If you are talking about commitment to get married...i.e., engagement or the like, Sanjay has explained in a recent article that this is seen from the 9th and 3rd houses & their arudhas in the chart. best regardsHari On 6/12/06, ak_131 <agrawal.amitk wrote: Dear Revered Gurus, I have few things to add here in question list... How do we see opposition in love/opposition in marriage separately... Sometimes, girl gets married to a boy and mother-in-law/ father-in-law/other-in-laws may create problems in the marriage.. This is opposition after marriage.. Other case, one of the parent family may oppose for the marriage and the " love couple " is not married.. Do we take 2nd UL(8th/6th from UL) in case of only marriage (ritual marriage or court marriage) ,Do we see commitment also a marriage(I guess its no) .. Best wishes and Regards Amit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Dear Hari ji, You got it correct about " commitment in relationship to get married " .. I wished to know about the opposition for love..that can be different from marriage.. because this is pre-marriage and post-marriage.. I know about 7th from UL and 12th from UL.. Could you please give me link of Sanjay Rath ji's article.. Best wishes and Regards Amit sohamsa , " Jyotisa Shisya " <achyutagaddi wrote: > > |om| > Dear Amit, namaste > > Opposition to marriage is seen by looking at the planets in the 7th from > UL...for example, Maneka Gandhi had Chandra in the 7th from UL and it is > known that her mother-in-law opposed her. > > Planets in the 12th to UL can indicate the secret opposition of people or > people who are not there at the time of marriage...for example, Sun in 12th > to UL can show that the father-in-law is not present at the time of marriage > or secretly opposes the union. > > What do you mean by commitment in a marriage? If you are talking about > commitment to get married...i.e., engagement or the like, Sanjay has > explained in a recent article that this is seen from the 9th and 3rd houses > & their arudhas in the chart. > > best regards > Hari > > On 6/12/06, ak_131 <agrawal.amitk wrote: > > > > Dear Revered Gurus, > > I have few things to add here in question list... How do we see > > opposition in love/opposition in marriage separately... > > Sometimes, girl gets married to a boy and mother-in-law/ > > father-in-law/other-in-laws may create problems in the marriage.. This > > is opposition after marriage.. > > Other case, one of the parent family may oppose for the marriage > > and the " love couple " is not married.. > > Do we take 2nd UL(8th/6th from UL) in case of only marriage > > (ritual marriage or court marriage) ,Do we see commitment also a > > marriage(I guess its no) .. > > > > Best wishes and Regards > > Amit > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Hare Rama Krsna Hari, You are getting into the gray area where it will be dependant on a case by case basis while studying the particular chart and the various other factors influencing marriage (7th house, lord, A7, navamsa, etc). In some cases, when the marriage is called off just beforehand, you will see the UL is very weak, and therefore it was going to be a marriage yet wasn’t able to fructify, and in that case the next attempt and its success or failure is seen from the next UL, as the first one failed. The general rule is a UL happens after one year of being together, but there are many types of vivaha (ones human law ordains and ones nature ordains). Again, it is a case by case situation. I generally will describe the spouse, and the person will clearly remove any doubt. For example, if the first UL is with a Mars and Rahu and the second is with Jupiter and Moon. The first wife will be a very harsh woman. The next will be very beautiful and generous and have a strong Jupitarian features. The other day, when I saw this combination in a chart, and we were talking about the natives second wife being very nice because of Jup Moon, he mentioned that he might actually be on his third UL as this has already come to pass (which was not mentioned earlier). In this way, work on seeing the situation and character of the UL and it will become clear with some experience. Namah Sivaaya sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Jyotisa Shisya Sunday, June 11, 2006 8:01 AM sohamsa Doubt on upapada |om| Dear Jyotisas, In the context of an 'arranged' marriage, if the marriage proceedings break up post-engagement, is the root UL (1st UL) still valid or do we move to the 8th from the root UL? Suppose that a person gets married and the spouse dies within 2 months of the marriage, is the root UL still valid or do we move on to the 8th from the root UL? What is the time frame we are talking here i.e., is the UL valid for a day or week or month or year or decades? Suppose that a person chooses a person as a spouse but suddenly decides that person is not worthy of being a spouse (pre-engagement), is the root UL still valid or we have to move on to the 8th from that UL? best regards, Hari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 Dear Freedom and Members, I also think that there may be an allied situation where the two charts show different reference points. For example, either the lady or the gentleman might be in a Vimshottari Dasha, or overall life situation, where they are aware/ relatively more aware as to what exactly the UL/ marriage involves. The other person might not be. So, while it is a beautiful relationship, for one it might be a UL relationship and for the other, it might be an A7 relationship. It is not meant that the person for whom it 'turns out' to be a Darapada relationship is a lesser or shallow person. It may be that he/ she is deluded, going through a disoriented time etc. He/ she may even be more involved than the other person, for example if the A7 and UL are mutually involved in his/ her chart: by Rashi Drishti/ Sambandha etc. Of course, if the relationship does not fructify, the chart in which it is a UL relationship will show an afflicted UL/ UL Lord and likewise for the other person an afflicted A7 where the diretcional influences in the latter case indicate suffering in a Darapada relationship and no Upapada possibilities. For example, Shani may be influencing the UL in this chart in Gochar. Of course, if this is one of those life-transforming events that either hurt so deeply that they mean something in Karmic patterns, or in the context of the two charts fit a larger picture, the issue of 'reverting' to the relationship can occur. This reverting would likely involve retrograde planets: 'going back'. Suppose one of the persons has gotten married in the interim. Let us assume, it is the person for whom the earlier relationship was an Upapada relationship. Then one way to match events would be to see if Saturn influences the 2nd UL in that chart. Also, the 2nd Lord from the 2nd UL and influences on the UL2 (in Freedom's terminology): the 2nd House from the 2nd UL should be seen. We have chosen a dramatic situation and so in the other chart in which the relationship has been taken to be an A7 relationship, the reverting would be to the same person and so the first UL cannot be exhausted, even though it is linked with the A7. In this latter first UL, these strong Karmic influences should be seen. Also, in the other chart, though the 1st UL was exhausted due to affliction and/ or weakness, the third UL should link with the 1st so that we know that it is a genuine case of 'reverting'. We cannot go back directly to the 1st UL as it is exhausted. But we may be taken back to that UL from the 3rd UL through Yuti of the lord of the 3rd UL with the 1st UL. Of course we will see the 3rd UL to judge the luck of the relationship this time around. Through standard rules, the Lagna of the other person should be the same when reckoned from the 1st UL and the 3rd UL. In this manner, we can trust Karma to reveal what the naked eye does not. Regards. Anurag Sharma. sohamsa , " freeflowaum " <freeflowaum wrote: > > Hare Rama Krsna > > Hari, > You are getting into the gray area where it will be dependant on a case by > case basis while studying the particular chart and the various other factors > influencing marriage (7th house, lord, A7, navamsa, etc). > In some cases, when the marriage is called off just beforehand, you will see > the UL is very weak, and therefore it was going to be a marriage yet wasn't > able to fructify, and in that case the next attempt and its success or > failure is seen from the next UL, as the first one failed. > The general rule is a UL happens after one year of being together, but there > are many types of vivaha (ones human law ordains and ones nature ordains). > Again, it is a case by case situation. I generally will describe the spouse, > and the person will clearly remove any doubt. For example, if the first UL > is with a Mars and Rahu and the second is with Jupiter and Moon. The first > wife will be a very harsh woman. The next will be very beautiful and > generous and have a strong Jupitarian features. The other day, when I saw > this combination in a chart, and we were talking about the natives second > wife being very nice because of Jup Moon, he mentioned that he might > actually be on his third UL as this has already come to pass (which was not > mentioned earlier). In this way, work on seeing the situation and character > of the UL and it will become clear with some experience. > > Namah Sivaaya > > _____ > > sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of > Jyotisa Shisya > Sunday, June 11, 2006 8:01 AM > sohamsa > Doubt on upapada > > |om| > Dear Jyotisas, > > In the context of an 'arranged' marriage, if the marriage proceedings break > up post-engagement, is the root UL (1st UL) still valid or do we move to the > 8th from the root UL? > > Suppose that a person gets married and the spouse dies within 2 months of > the marriage, is the root UL still valid or do we move on to the 8th from > the root UL? What is the time frame we are talking here i.e., is the UL > valid for a day or week or month or year or decades? > > Suppose that a person chooses a person as a spouse but suddenly decides that > person is not worthy of being a spouse (pre-engagement), is the root UL > still valid or we have to move on to the 8th from that UL? > > best regards, > Hari > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 Dear Anurag ji In my limited experience, I have seen even afflicted UL (rahu being there; 2nd from UL aspected by shani etc)- being happily married (first relationship). It means, there must be overriding factors and UL can not be conclusively binding. regards / Prafulla Gang It's natural to look at the flaws in others to make yourself feel better. But just remember that no one is perfect. Be kinder to yourself and you might find that you're able to be a lot kinder to others too. > > anuraagsharma27 > Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:06:32 -0000 > sohamsa > Re: Doubt on upapada > > Dear Freedom and Members, > > I also think that there may be an allied situation where the two > charts show different reference points. For example, either the lady > or the gentleman might be in a Vimshottari Dasha, or overall life > situation, where they are aware/ relatively more aware as to what > exactly the UL/ marriage involves. The other person might not be. > So, while it is a beautiful relationship, for one it might be a UL > relationship and for the other, it might be an A7 relationship. > > It is not meant that the person for whom it 'turns out' to be a > Darapada relationship is a lesser or shallow person. It may be that > he/ she is deluded, going through a disoriented time etc. He/ she > may even be more involved than the other person, for example if the > A7 and UL are mutually involved in his/ her chart: by Rashi Drishti/ > Sambandha etc. > > Of course, if the relationship does not fructify, the chart in which > it is a UL relationship will show an afflicted UL/ UL Lord and > likewise for the other person an afflicted A7 where the diretcional > influences in the latter case indicate suffering in a Darapada > relationship and no Upapada possibilities. For example, Shani may be > influencing the UL in this chart in Gochar. > > Of course, if this is one of those life-transforming events that > either hurt so deeply that they mean something in Karmic patterns, > or in the context of the two charts fit a larger picture, the issue > of 'reverting' to the relationship can occur. > > This reverting would likely involve retrograde planets: 'going > back'. Suppose one of the persons has gotten married in the interim. > Let us assume, it is the person for whom the earlier relationship > was an Upapada relationship. Then one way to match events would be > to see if Saturn influences the 2nd UL in that chart. Also, the 2nd > Lord from the 2nd UL and influences on the UL2 (in Freedom's > terminology): the 2nd House from the 2nd UL should be seen. > > We have chosen a dramatic situation and so in the other chart in > which the relationship has been taken to be an A7 relationship, the > reverting would be to the same person and so the first UL cannot be > exhausted, even though it is linked with the A7. In this latter > first UL, these strong Karmic influences should be seen. > > Also, in the other chart, though the 1st UL was exhausted due to > affliction and/ or weakness, the third UL should link with the 1st > so that we know that it is a genuine case of 'reverting'. We cannot > go back directly to the 1st UL as it is exhausted. But we may be > taken back to that UL from the 3rd UL through Yuti of the lord of > the 3rd UL with the 1st UL. Of course we will see the 3rd UL to > judge the luck of the relationship this time around. Through > standard rules, the Lagna of the other person should be the same > when reckoned from the 1st UL and the 3rd UL. > > In this manner, we can trust Karma to reveal what the naked eye does > not. > > Regards. > > Anurag Sharma. > > > > sohamsa , " freeflowaum " <freeflowaum > wrote: >> >> Hare Rama Krsna >> >> Hari, >> You are getting into the gray area where it will be dependant on a > case by >> case basis while studying the particular chart and the various > other factors >> influencing marriage (7th house, lord, A7, navamsa, etc). >> In some cases, when the marriage is called off just beforehand, > you will see >> the UL is very weak, and therefore it was going to be a marriage > yet wasn't >> able to fructify, and in that case the next attempt and its > success or >> failure is seen from the next UL, as the first one failed. >> The general rule is a UL happens after one year of being together, > but there >> are many types of vivaha (ones human law ordains and ones nature > ordains). >> Again, it is a case by case situation. I generally will describe > the spouse, >> and the person will clearly remove any doubt. For example, if the > first UL >> is with a Mars and Rahu and the second is with Jupiter and Moon. > The first >> wife will be a very harsh woman. The next will be very beautiful > and >> generous and have a strong Jupitarian features. The other day, > when I saw >> this combination in a chart, and we were talking about the natives > second >> wife being very nice because of Jup Moon, he mentioned that he > might >> actually be on his third UL as this has already come to pass > (which was not >> mentioned earlier). In this way, work on seeing the situation and > character >> of the UL and it will become clear with some experience. >> >> Namah Sivaaya >> >> _____ >> >> sohamsa [sohamsa ] On > Behalf Of >> Jyotisa Shisya >> Sunday, June 11, 2006 8:01 AM >> sohamsa >> Doubt on upapada >> >> |om| >> Dear Jyotisas, >> >> In the context of an 'arranged' marriage, if the marriage > proceedings break >> up post-engagement, is the root UL (1st UL) still valid or do we > move to the >> 8th from the root UL? >> >> Suppose that a person gets married and the spouse dies within 2 > months of >> the marriage, is the root UL still valid or do we move on to the > 8th from >> the root UL? What is the time frame we are talking here i.e., is > the UL >> valid for a day or week or month or year or decades? >> >> Suppose that a person chooses a person as a spouse but suddenly > decides that >> person is not worthy of being a spouse (pre-engagement), is the > root UL >> still valid or we have to move on to the 8th from that UL? >> >> best regards, >> Hari >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 klim datta guru Dear Prafulla, The UL is most conclusive and hapiness from marriage comes from 2H from UL. Upapada describes the partner & partnership factor. Other places are also important..experience is must. Regards Rafal Gendarz - Prafulla Gang sohamsa Tuesday, June 13, 2006 6:26 PM RE: Re: Doubt on upapada Dear Anurag jiIn my limited experience, I have seen even afflicted UL (rahu being there; 2nd from UL aspected by shani etc)- being happily married (first relationship). It means, there must be overriding factors and UL can not be conclusively binding.regards / Prafulla GangIt's natural to look at the flaws in others to make yourself feel better. But just remember that no one is perfect. Be kinder to yourself and you might find that you're able to be a lot kinder to others too.> > anuraagsharma27 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:06:32 -0000> sohamsa > Re: Doubt on upapada> > Dear Freedom and Members,> > I also think that there may be an allied situation where the two> charts show different reference points. For example, either the lady> or the gentleman might be in a Vimshottari Dasha, or overall life> situation, where they are aware/ relatively more aware as to what> exactly the UL/ marriage involves. The other person might not be.> So, while it is a beautiful relationship, for one it might be a UL> relationship and for the other, it might be an A7 relationship.> > It is not meant that the person for whom it 'turns out' to be a> Darapada relationship is a lesser or shallow person. It may be that> he/ she is deluded, going through a disoriented time etc. He/ she> may even be more involved than the other person, for example if the> A7 and UL are mutually involved in his/ her chart: by Rashi Drishti/> Sambandha etc.> > Of course, if the relationship does not fructify, the chart in which> it is a UL relationship will show an afflicted UL/ UL Lord and> likewise for the other person an afflicted A7 where the diretcional> influences in the latter case indicate suffering in a Darapada> relationship and no Upapada possibilities. For example, Shani may be> influencing the UL in this chart in Gochar.> > Of course, if this is one of those life-transforming events that> either hurt so deeply that they mean something in Karmic patterns,> or in the context of the two charts fit a larger picture, the issue> of 'reverting' to the relationship can occur.> > This reverting would likely involve retrograde planets: 'going> back'. Suppose one of the persons has gotten married in the interim.> Let us assume, it is the person for whom the earlier relationship> was an Upapada relationship. Then one way to match events would be> to see if Saturn influences the 2nd UL in that chart. Also, the 2nd> Lord from the 2nd UL and influences on the UL2 (in Freedom's> terminology): the 2nd House from the 2nd UL should be seen.> > We have chosen a dramatic situation and so in the other chart in> which the relationship has been taken to be an A7 relationship, the> reverting would be to the same person and so the first UL cannot be> exhausted, even though it is linked with the A7. In this latter> first UL, these strong Karmic influences should be seen.> > Also, in the other chart, though the 1st UL was exhausted due to> affliction and/ or weakness, the third UL should link with the 1st> so that we know that it is a genuine case of 'reverting'. We cannot> go back directly to the 1st UL as it is exhausted. But we may be> taken back to that UL from the 3rd UL through Yuti of the lord of> the 3rd UL with the 1st UL. Of course we will see the 3rd UL to> judge the luck of the relationship this time around. Through> standard rules, the Lagna of the other person should be the same> when reckoned from the 1st UL and the 3rd UL.> > In this manner, we can trust Karma to reveal what the naked eye does> not.> > Regards.> > Anurag Sharma.> > > > sohamsa , "freeflowaum" <freeflowaum> wrote:>> >> Hare Rama Krsna>> >> Hari,>> You are getting into the gray area where it will be dependant on a> case by>> case basis while studying the particular chart and the various> other factors>> influencing marriage (7th house, lord, A7, navamsa, etc).>> In some cases, when the marriage is called off just beforehand,> you will see>> the UL is very weak, and therefore it was going to be a marriage> yet wasn't>> able to fructify, and in that case the next attempt and its> success or>> failure is seen from the next UL, as the first one failed.>> The general rule is a UL happens after one year of being together,> but there>> are many types of vivaha (ones human law ordains and ones nature> ordains).>> Again, it is a case by case situation. I generally will describe> the spouse,>> and the person will clearly remove any doubt. For example, if the> first UL>> is with a Mars and Rahu and the second is with Jupiter and Moon.> The first>> wife will be a very harsh woman. The next will be very beautiful> and>> generous and have a strong Jupitarian features. The other day,> when I saw>> this combination in a chart, and we were talking about the natives> second>> wife being very nice because of Jup Moon, he mentioned that he> might>> actually be on his third UL as this has already come to pass> (which was not>> mentioned earlier). In this way, work on seeing the situation and> character>> of the UL and it will become clear with some experience.>> >> Namah Sivaaya>> >> _____>> >> sohamsa [sohamsa ] On> Behalf Of>> Jyotisa Shisya>> Sunday, June 11, 2006 8:01 AM>> sohamsa >> Doubt on upapada>> >> |om|>> Dear Jyotisas,>> >> In the context of an 'arranged' marriage, if the marriage> proceedings break>> up post-engagement, is the root UL (1st UL) still valid or do we> move to the>> 8th from the root UL?>> >> Suppose that a person gets married and the spouse dies within 2> months of>> the marriage, is the root UL still valid or do we move on to the> 8th from>> the root UL? What is the time frame we are talking here i.e., is> the UL>> valid for a day or week or month or year or decades?>> >> Suppose that a person chooses a person as a spouse but suddenly> decides that>> person is not worthy of being a spouse (pre-engagement), is the> root UL>> still valid or we have to move on to the 8th from that UL?>> >> best regards,>> Hari>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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