For Bharatl - Vedanta and 7th from KK

[Guest guest]

Om Brihaspataye Namah

 

Dear Bharat,

Thankyou for sharing this brilliance with

us . I really care too. May our ‘unlearning’ continue .

As Bhagavad Gita ‘s Chapter 13

verse 11 commentary by Adi Shankaracharya says ,

 

“ These attributes from ‘humility’

to ‘ perception of the end of knowledge of truth’-are declared to

be knowledge, because they are conducive to knowledge “

“ What is opposed to this –

pride, hypocrisy, cruelty, impatience, insecurity and the like – is ignorance,

which should be known and avoided as tending to the perpetuation of samsara.”

 

From a Jyotish view, 7th from

Karakamsha represent the maximum desire of the Atma, and planets there ,cause

of rebirth.The main cause of inconstancy in Self Knowledge.

So would you agree that advaita ( not two)

, constancy in union and memory of the Self , perception of the end of

knowledge of truth , is linked to transcending 7th from karakamsha?

 

I would be most interested to hear you

thoughts on this.

 

Kind regards

Rosemary

 

 

 

 

 

 

sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Bharat Hindu Astrology

Sunday, 4 June 2006 9:51

a.m.

sohamsa

For Rafal -

Vedanta and its understanding

 

 

Namaskaar

Sri Rafal and others who may be interested.

Sri

Gurubhyoh Namah, Harih Om

First

of all, there isn't a Mayavada. To call something as Maya-vada, it presupposes

the existence of Maya as a separate entity, which is not case. Therefore,

Vedanta is Brahman-vada and not Maya-vada.

QUESTIONING THE EXISTENCE OF MAYA

Maya

the word is ma ya – what is not. The existence of Maya depends upon the

objects that are perceived. When objects are not present, how can the Maya be

said to exist. So its very " existence " is dependent upon the

non-existent objects.

Why don't the objects Exist?

The

objects are perceived. Our sight sense, eye, receives the light of a particular

frequency. It rejects certain frequencies of light. In some cases it

watches phenomenon like a mirage, which is an optical illusion. Hence,

perception is not a valid pramana for deciding Existence.

That

they appear to exist is a separate topic and can be discussed later.

Maya and Objects

Since

the very existence of objects is questionable, Maya's existence is

questionable. Therefore, Maya-vada is not a term to be used. Furthermore, it is

healthy to remember that Vedanta questions the very existence of Maya.

 

WAKING, DREAM and DEEP SLEEP

Playing

a role of a waker, you see the waking world and its objects. Playing the role

of a dreamer, the waking world is missing along with its objects. A new world

arises and a new you. So a dream you watches the dream world. There are many

objects in the dream world - many different and varied objects. Some objects

you like, some you hate, some you like to own, some you might want to get rid

off.

So

a Vedantin walks to you and says, you and the world are the same. But you kick

him aside and say what nonsense. Look at the world, look at all its objects,

how can this be me?

 

You say:

1.

I perceive this world, it must be real.

2.

When I kick a stone, I get hurt. The inference is that stone is hard and it

cracks the bone in my toe. So it is real.

3.

The world seems to have been put together intelligently. So there must be a

greater force doing all this. Let us call it Isvara. And since I am not that

force, Isvara must be something else.

So

how dare you call all this as Me alone! You must be a great sinner to equate

yourself to Isvara. Damn you! You shall rot in hell!

So

the Vedantin smiles and asks: Who are you?

You

say I am XYZ.

Vedantin:

That is only a name.

You

say I born of such and such parents.

Vedantin:

That is your relation. But who are you?

You

say I am this body.

Vedantin:

Oh, so you mean to say it is your body that thinks, feels, and describes this

universe. And why do you call the body – " this " as if it is an

external object?

You

say: No! No! – I have a mind too.

Vedantin:

You have a mind? So does the body have a mind or mind has the body? And what do

you mean that you " have " a mind. This means you are the possessor of

a mind and a body. So mind and body are possessed by you. But I am asking a

simple question – Who are you? And not asking about what your possessions

are?

This

begins the thinking.

Now,

I want to ask you – what is the dream world made up off? Who is the dream

you? Are not both the same? Isn't the entire dream born out of you and

dissolves back into you? While the dream exists, the entire dream world

is made of you. Aren't you the material cause? Aren't you the efficient cause?

Aren't you the intelligent cause of this dream?

Now,

you ask a question in your dream? Why all this creation of the dream world?

– If you were in front of that person in his dream, what answer would you

give him?

As

the objects of the dream are negated by waking, similarly the objects of the

waking are negated by the dream. They do not exist independently and are

illusory in nature just as a mirage.

 

CREATIONISM AND CREATOR

Let

us say, Lord created this world. That means Lord exists before the world. Since

there was no world, no universe, so only Lord existed. If this can be arrived

at logically, then, how, with what and where did he create this Universe? Let

us say, he created some space. Where can he create any space, as all is nothing

but the Lord! He cannot create something out of himself as there exists no out.

 

The

other option is that Lord is a small being who found himself in the midst of a

vast space and time. He was feeling bored and thought he could have some fun

and created this world and thought he could now rule over such people. If they

do not pray to him, he will send them to hell and if they pray to him, he will

forgive their sins and send them to heaven. In that case, can Lord be Real?

Anything limited in space and time is subject to change. That means Lord can

have change. That also means Lord can change his mind and start sending sinners

to heaven and saints to hell! So you see, wild imaginations can give birth too

many philosophies and many " saints " and their followers. Of course,

besides the above reasoning, this assumption is also negated by the Scriptures.

 

 

So

if there is a world, it has to exist within the lord for the so called space

cannot exist anyplace outside of itself and of the Lord. It will be a

contradiction. Now what will the Lord make the world with. What material will

he use? Lord can only use himself as a material as nothing else exists. So

material cause of the world, is Lord. By what means would the Lord create the

world? He has only himself. So it is by himself he creates the world, so he

becomes the efficient cause. Now, to create something some intelligence is

needed. By whose intelligence did Lord create the world? Since he alone is, it

has to be his own intelligence.

So

world is made up of the Lord, by the Lord, and through the Lord. How is it,

then, different from the Lord?

Atleast

this should be understood intellectually. Tarka can be used initially before it

too is given up.

 

WORLD, SENSES, MIND, CONSCIOUSNESS

Who

is the Gyata of the world? - The Senses.

Who

is the Gyata of the senses? – The Mind.

Who

is the Gyata of the mind? – The Consciousness

So

you see, the very " reality " of the world is dependent upon the Senses

and this is viewed by the mind. Mind is evident only in light of consciousness.

The very existence of the senses and the mind is dependent. So the world, that

is dependent upon the dependent, cannot independently exist.

Therefore,

even by not taking the Shruti/Vedanta as a pramana, one can analyze and

understand the nature of the World to be illusory.

If

you read the above with a contemplative and an open mind, you shall see much

truth and many more questions will arise. Please make a list of those questions

and start seeking the knowledge of the subject with honesty and sincerity.

Swami

Rama Tirtha says that if you are thirsty for knowledge, a master will come to

your doorsteps and teach you. What is the pramana for such a statement? –

Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa came for Swami Vivekananda. Furthermore, there is a

beautiful statement – Perfect master – Perfect Disciple. People

tend to search for Perfect Master. Tell me how will you recognize one? Can the

dreamer know who is woken up? So the whole process of finding a Perfect Master

is silly. It is best to be a perfect disciple. Open yourself to knowledge and

inculcate the values of a disciple. Do we have a pramana for this? Yoga

Vashishtha….is the pramana. Lord Rama is a perfect disciple and Sage

Vashishta is a perfect master.

Vedanta

usually comes in strong but small dosages. I shall end this email now and pray

you find your learning or shall we say unlearning!

Aum Purnamadah Purnamidam Purnat Purnamudachyate

Purnasya Purnamadaya Purnameva Vashsihate

Shantih! Shantih! Shantih!

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

P.S:

Kindly excuse this email as I had promised Sri Rafal that I would write to him

regarding the same.