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Dwaitic Practice in Adwaitic Realization: To Bharat and PVR

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> > Experience denotes an " object " and a " subject " . The very word

experience

> > means two. Therefore, any experience shall be dwaita. Realization

isn't an

> > experience.

>

> Is Adwaita the absence of object/subject? Or is it seeing the same

Brahman in various subjects and various objects?

>

 

Dear PVR and Bharat,

When Bharat says realization isnt an experience, I believe he means

there is the absence of an experiencer. But what he hasnt elaborated

is which part of " I " persists when you proceed in the phases of self-

realization until full ( " Adwaitic " ) realization. If his answer is

that no part of the " I " persists, then it logically follows that that

realization is already here right now, and there is no point in

the " I " pursuing that quest, since at the end of the search, " it "

(the " I " ) will cease completely and hence, " it " will never experience

realization. For the quest to have meaning some part of the " I " must

persist.

 

Of course, I am no Guru (astrological or otherwise) and not versed in

the classics you both respect, so you may dismiss me summarily. But

if you are not fooled by external appearances you may read on. In my

prolonged analysis, what I suspect is that the " I " disappearance that

happens on full realization is not really a disappearance. What

happens is that the " I " actually realizes its true extent which is

the " whole " Brahman everywhere. As a consequence of THAT, the " I "

becomes meaningless and hence " disappears " . For example, when you

wake up in the morning and see the sun and the trees and the hard

stones and the soft grass, you feel these differences (hard, soft,

light, dark, grass, trees, stones, sun) because you are a POINT of

consciousness, the " I " . Imagine for a second that you were everywhere

at the same time. Then when " you " " wake " up in the morning, would

you " see " the Sun or would the Sun " see " " you " , since " you " are in

both? Would " you " feel the hard stones or the soft grass? Would " you "

see only after " waking " or even before? The truth is that EVERYTHING

would be IN " YOU " . There would be no subject, no object, and all

differences would be meaningless, since you (since you are

everywhere) would be hard and soft and cold and hot and bright and

dark all AT THE SAME TIME. Actually even TIME is included in

that " experience " .

 

So my point is (and perhaps what Bharat is hinting at) that the

centering of your consciousness, as you currently know it (i.e. the

centering in your body/mind), is suddenly lost (un-tethered) upon

Adwaitic self realization. " It " (the center) experiences mind

boggling expansion which renders the " I " ness (the " apparent " center)

meaningless. It is hinted at in the enlightenment experiences of

several people, and in the Gita too. Please see my post number 3843,

in sohamsa, for an elaboration of the previous sentence..

 

Just my 2c, hope it is entertaining if not much else,

 

Sundeep

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Dear Bharat,

Thank you for your compliment. As I understand your post, I believe

you imply that something I have said either directly contradicts, or

is an assumed and unfounded interpretation of some Shruti. Could you

please cite that?

 

In my opinion, there is nothing that I have written in that post that

is truly my " opinion " . It is simple reasoning based on several

approaches (not just Indian) to the problem of self-realization. My

only assumption is that the experiences cited by the people are true.

But perhaps you feel that their truth is an appearance that they felt

to be true because they too were deluded. Toward that end, I did

analyze the charts of some of those people - at least Jiddu

Krishnamurti appears to have Ketu & Venus in 12th from Karakamsa, and

more than one Guru have agreed that he must have experienced final

emancipation. Ramana Maharishi, who also talks in very similar terms,

also has Ketu alone in 12th from Karakamsa.

 

 

Regards,

 

Sundeep

 

sohamsa , " Bharat Hindu Astrology "

<hinduastrology wrote:

>

> Namaskaar Sri Sundeep

>

> I wouldn't ignore your post. Very well written.

>

> When the words of Shruti are spoken, there are two possibilities:

> 1. Interpreting the words and bringing them to the assumptions and

thinking

> level of the mind.

> 2. Attempting to rise to the level of understanding of the Shruti.

>

> We must always guard against the first tendency and believe me that

tendency

> is in everyone, including me.

>

> For the 2nd, Grace of the Lord is paramount. Bhagwan's grace comes

in

> through making one honest about oneself, having acceptance and sama

bhava

> towards results of the actions, and empathy and senstivity towards

others.

>

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

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