Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 > > Experience denotes an " object " and a " subject " . The very word experience > > means two. Therefore, any experience shall be dwaita. Realization isn't an > > experience. > > Is Adwaita the absence of object/subject? Or is it seeing the same Brahman in various subjects and various objects? > Dear PVR and Bharat, When Bharat says realization isnt an experience, I believe he means there is the absence of an experiencer. But what he hasnt elaborated is which part of " I " persists when you proceed in the phases of self- realization until full ( " Adwaitic " ) realization. If his answer is that no part of the " I " persists, then it logically follows that that realization is already here right now, and there is no point in the " I " pursuing that quest, since at the end of the search, " it " (the " I " ) will cease completely and hence, " it " will never experience realization. For the quest to have meaning some part of the " I " must persist. Of course, I am no Guru (astrological or otherwise) and not versed in the classics you both respect, so you may dismiss me summarily. But if you are not fooled by external appearances you may read on. In my prolonged analysis, what I suspect is that the " I " disappearance that happens on full realization is not really a disappearance. What happens is that the " I " actually realizes its true extent which is the " whole " Brahman everywhere. As a consequence of THAT, the " I " becomes meaningless and hence " disappears " . For example, when you wake up in the morning and see the sun and the trees and the hard stones and the soft grass, you feel these differences (hard, soft, light, dark, grass, trees, stones, sun) because you are a POINT of consciousness, the " I " . Imagine for a second that you were everywhere at the same time. Then when " you " " wake " up in the morning, would you " see " the Sun or would the Sun " see " " you " , since " you " are in both? Would " you " feel the hard stones or the soft grass? Would " you " see only after " waking " or even before? The truth is that EVERYTHING would be IN " YOU " . There would be no subject, no object, and all differences would be meaningless, since you (since you are everywhere) would be hard and soft and cold and hot and bright and dark all AT THE SAME TIME. Actually even TIME is included in that " experience " . So my point is (and perhaps what Bharat is hinting at) that the centering of your consciousness, as you currently know it (i.e. the centering in your body/mind), is suddenly lost (un-tethered) upon Adwaitic self realization. " It " (the center) experiences mind boggling expansion which renders the " I " ness (the " apparent " center) meaningless. It is hinted at in the enlightenment experiences of several people, and in the Gita too. Please see my post number 3843, in sohamsa, for an elaboration of the previous sentence.. Just my 2c, hope it is entertaining if not much else, Sundeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Dear Bharat, Thank you for your compliment. As I understand your post, I believe you imply that something I have said either directly contradicts, or is an assumed and unfounded interpretation of some Shruti. Could you please cite that? In my opinion, there is nothing that I have written in that post that is truly my " opinion " . It is simple reasoning based on several approaches (not just Indian) to the problem of self-realization. My only assumption is that the experiences cited by the people are true. But perhaps you feel that their truth is an appearance that they felt to be true because they too were deluded. Toward that end, I did analyze the charts of some of those people - at least Jiddu Krishnamurti appears to have Ketu & Venus in 12th from Karakamsa, and more than one Guru have agreed that he must have experienced final emancipation. Ramana Maharishi, who also talks in very similar terms, also has Ketu alone in 12th from Karakamsa. Regards, Sundeep sohamsa , " Bharat Hindu Astrology " <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaskaar Sri Sundeep > > I wouldn't ignore your post. Very well written. > > When the words of Shruti are spoken, there are two possibilities: > 1. Interpreting the words and bringing them to the assumptions and thinking > level of the mind. > 2. Attempting to rise to the level of understanding of the Shruti. > > We must always guard against the first tendency and believe me that tendency > is in everyone, including me. > > For the 2nd, Grace of the Lord is paramount. Bhagwan's grace comes in > through making one honest about oneself, having acceptance and sama bhava > towards results of the actions, and empathy and senstivity towards others. > > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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