Progression -- Obliquity

October 3, 2008

Here is the view of KPAstro 3.0 developer, Dr. Rangarajan

Krishnamoorthy.

Re: Re: Progression Thursday, October 2, 2008 11:49 PM

" Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy " <ranga

tw853

Dear Tin Win,

As far as I know, Obliquity is used in the conext of ayanamsa

computation. I am not using this parameter explicitly because the KPA

formulas do not consider it (I am not using Swiss ephemeris formula

for calculating KPA). There other parameters such as " Nutation " which

are very complex to understand and use in real practice. I sincerely

believe that these will be appropriate if we are writing an astronomy

program, but I am skeptical about their utility in astrology. When

most astrologers do not even have a good knowledge the basic

astrological principles, there is very little point in worrying about

these " exotic " parameters.

I would be interested to know how the cuspal and planetary positions

agree when Astrowonder uses obliquity but KPAstro does not? Is it

that Astrowonder just displays the obliquity value without using it

in any meaningful way? In that case, there is no further merit in

discussing this because it is just cosmetics.

Regards,

Rangarajan

, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan

wrote:

>

> Dear Gopal

> Do you mean that the obliquity is not considered in KPASTRO 3.0 or

in Jagannatha Hora.

> Then how these software results are tallying with Astrowonder.

>

> Did you find any difference between Astrowonder and KPASTRO 3.0

regarding cuspal positions and planetary positions for same input

value. I did not find any difference.

>

> Dhanabalan

>

> --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Tkp Ghopal <astrogopalji_tkp wrote:

>

> Tkp Ghopal <astrogopalji_tkp

> Re: Re: Progression

>

> Thursday, October 2, 2008, 9:56 AM

>

Mr.Dhanabalan

> I am sorry to state.The obliquity is not incorporated in all the

softwares.It is in the Astrowonder which you use.

> Wishes

> tkp

>

> --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ > wrote:

>

> Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ >

> Re: Re: Progression

> @gro ups.com

> Thursday, October 2, 2008, 1:41 AM

>

Dear Ramanai

> Obliquity is tilting of earth's axis. All we know that earth is 23

1/2 degree tiliting. It is taken for calculation in all softwares

including the software in which you are using.

>

> Dhanabalan

>

> --- On Wed, 10/1/08, Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com> wrote:

>

> Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>

> Re: Re: Progression

> @gro ups.com

> Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 7:57 AM

>

> Dear Dhanabalan,

>

> In TMP 3 Prog.chart for 27-10-1942, against Obliquity

> there is mention of 23-26-59, which I took it to be as

> Ayanamsaa value of 1942 for the date. If it is KPNA(2003)

> 22-48-07, I am happy about it. By the by, what is Obliquity

> in this chart pl.?

>

> K.S.V.Ramani

>

> -

> Dhanabalan R

> @gro ups.com

> Wednesday, October 01, 2008 10:42 AM

> Re: Re: Progression

>

Dear Ramani

>

> For the birth chart TMP2, I have used the KPNA(2003) ayanamsa

value 22.48.07. Mr.Tin Win has used 22.48.06 in KPASTRO 3.0. Values

are same.

>

> In the progression chart TMP3 also, the same KPNA(2003) ayanamsa

value 22.48.07 is used. The value is printed in the chart itself.

There is no difference in dasa balance. DBAS are same for both the

charts.

>

> I am not able to understand how you are telling that I have used

the ayanamsa value 23.26.59. I have not used the ayanamsa value

23.26.59 for progression chart.

>

> The DBAS for Moon on 27-10-1942 is Mars-Venus-Venus- Rahu

> The Moon position in p.charts is Mars-Venus-venus-

Rahu

>

> The DBAS for Asc on 27-10-1942 is Moon-Sat-Sat- Jupiter

> The Ascendant position in p.chart is Moon-Sat-Sat- Jupiter

>

> The DBAS for Sun on 27-10-1942 is Jup-Rahu-Mer- Mer

> The Sun position in p.charts is Jup-Rahu-Mer- Mer

>

> The DBAS for Mars on 27-10-1942 is Mer-Rahu-Jup- Mer

> The Mars position in p.charts is Mer-Rahu-Jup- Mer

>

> Hence the progression chart is correct.

>

> Please tell me how you arrived the ayanamsa value 23.26.59.

> In the software I am using has the facility to see the DBAS for all

the planets and Ascendant with a clik of a button. The facility to

rotate the chart with or without recalculation. The facility of

transit chart and movement chart. If it is not available in KPASTRO

3.0, ask them to introduce these facilities.

>

> Dhanabalan

>

> --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com> wrote:

>

> Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>

> Re: Re: Progression

> @gro ups.com

> Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 3:26 PM

>

> Dear Mr.Dhanabalan,

>

> 2 Charts (1) Natal Birth chart & (2) Progressed chart for

> 27-10-1942 are attached with your mail to Mr.Tin Win.

> While the Ayanamsa shown for natal birth chart is correct as per

KPNA(2003), I find that that the Ayanamsa 23-26-59

> (DMS) is not tallying with the KPNA(2003), difference being more

than 28' in value. Kindly intimate which Ayanamsa is

> used for the Prog.chart for 27-10-42. It is not tallying with

> KP straight line Ayanamsa too. Pl.excuse me for troubling you.

> Astrologically yours,

> K.S.V.Ramani

>

> -

> Dhanabalan R

> @gro ups.com

> Tuesday, September 30, 2008 8:49 AM

> Re: Re: Progression

>

Dear Tin Win

> The birth chart and the progression chart for the date 27-10-1942

based on KPNA is attached. The KPNA value taken is 22.48.07. The Asc.

Cp 16.00.00. All the values are matching with KPASTRO 3.0.

> But in KPASTRO, the general significator is taken.

>

> In the software I am using, the significators in the progression

chart are based on the progressed position of the planets and

Ascendant. Hence the value differ from natal chart. Late Mr.Mohan

took two years to develop this progression method. The reliability of

this progression chart has to be studied in depth before put into

practice. There is different of opinion among the k.p. astrologers

about this progression method. But this method is reasonable when

compare to other progression methods.

>

> Dhanabalan

>

> --- On Mon, 9/29/08, tw853 <tw853 > wrote:

>

> tw853 <tw853 >

> Re: Progression

> @gro ups.com

> Monday, September 29, 2008, 11:56 AM

>

> Dear Ramani ji,

>

> 1. Sorry the following significations are given from progression

chart.

>

> > 4) Ma(7,4,11); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Ra+(3,10,6,9, ....)

> >

> > 5) Ve(11,5,10); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Mo(5,7)

>

> 2. They should be from natal chart as given under.

>

> 4) Ma(7,4,11,12) ; Stl Me(10,7,9): Sbl Ra+(3,10,7,9, ....) (no plt

in Ra

> star)

>

> 5) Ve(11,5,6,10) ; Stl Me(10,7,9): Sbl Mo(5,8)

>

> Thanks and regards,

>

> tw

> @gro ups.com, " tw853 " <tw853@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Ramani ji,

> >

> > > Native's natal chart details: Male; DOB 8-11-1930 Saturday

> > > at 10-44 AM at Royapuram, Madras (now Chennai), 13-4(N)

> > > 80-17(E). Events (known):

> > > (1) Father's demise - 27-10-1942;

> >

> > For presentation of this progression method, could you kindly

check

> > and confirm or correct whether,

> >

> > 1) progression chart for 27-10-1942 is Asc Cp 15:59:48 using New

KPA

> > 22:48:06 ;

> > 2)> (1) Father's demise - 27-10-1942 (Ma-Ve DB by natal chart);

> > 3) Ma (Mo-Me-Ra, Sgl-Stl-Sbl) ; Ve(Ma-Me-Mo) by progress chart;

> >

> > 4) Ma(7,4,11); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Ra+(3,10,6,9, ....)

> >

> > 5) Ve(11,5,10); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Mo(5,7)

> >

> > as given by KPAstro 3.0.

> >

> > Thanks and regards,

> >

> > tw

> >

> > @gro ups.com, " Ramani " kadavasalramani@

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sri Dhanabalan,

> > >

> > > I am extremely grateful to your kind offer to prepare Progressed

> > chat for the events. Last time I got the chart for 17-9-2008, on

> > which date there was no event and I could not analyse the chart

with

> > event. I am giving 4 events first to enable you to send in one

mail.

> > Rest I will let you know later. I will also discuss with the

> > progressed chart as I understand it.

> > > Native's natal chart details: Male; DOB 8-11-1930 Saturday

> > > at 10-44 AM at Royapuram, Madras (now Chennai), 13-4(N)

> > > 80-17(E). Events (known):

> > > (1) Father's demise - 27-10-1942; (2) Mother's demise 10-1-1963;

> > (3) Marriage - 27-5-1954; (4) Birth of son: 23-9-1967

> > >

> > > Astrologically yours,

> > >

> > > K.s.V.Ramani

> > >

> > > -

> > > Dhanabalan R

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:50 PM

> > > Re: Progression

> > >

> > > Dear Ramani

> > >

> > > Please give the time of events like marriage, child birth

> > date and some other events. I will send the progression charts

for 4

> > events through one mail. Then we will analyse the charts.

> > >

> > > I do not have the copy of A & A for the year 1999. You can

> > apply that principle in your chart and explain to the members. I

can

> > send you any number of progression charts if you give the details.

> > >

> > > Dhanabalan

> > >

> > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Ramani kadavasalramani@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Ramani kadavasalramani@

> > > Progression

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Sunday, September 21, 2008, 4:40 AM

> > >

> > > Dear Sri Dhanabalan R,

> > >

> > > This refers to my query and group discussions about

> > Progression with ref. to VMDBA. In this connection,

> > > I would like to draw your attention and also of group

> > > members, a fine article on Progression by late Sri KMS

> > > in K.P. & Astrology Annual 1999, wherein he has discussed

> > about the utility of the Progressed chart. Thanks for your model

> > chart furnished to me.

> > >

> > > Thanking you once again,

> > > Astrologically yours,

> > > K.S.V.Ramani

> > >

> >

>

October 3, 2008

Dear Tw ji,

In my opinion, Obliquity has nothing to do with Ayanamsa calculation. In fact, Obliquity is used in spherical trigonometry/ celestial astronomy for calculating cuspal positions. Without using Obliquity, it is no possible to calculate ascendant and other cusps. We are using Obliquity in AstroSage.com and our other softwares. I am sure every software that uses spherical trigonometry as against the static database will have to use Obliquity to get the correct calculations. As Rangarajan ji is using Swiss ephemeris, he is probably not reuqired to do the cuspal calculation in KPAstro, as Swiss software will be doing calculation for him and using Obliquity internally. Astronomically, Obliquity is the tilt of axis of heavenly body from it's orbital plane (tilt from perpendicular to the orbital plane, to be exact). Obliquity is very well defined in WikiPedia and the people interested in mathematical astrology must have a look at it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_tilt

Once you have calculated Obliquity, ascendant can be calculated as follows -

ASC = ARCCOT (- ( (TAN LATITUDE x SIN OBLIQUITY) + (SIN RAMC x COS OBLIQUITY) ) ÷ COS RAMC)

I hope it helps.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 9:37 AM, tw853 <tw853 wrote:

Here is the view of KPAstro 3.0 developer, Dr. Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy.Re: Re: Progression Thursday, October 2, 2008 11:49 PM " Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy " <ranga

tw853Dear Tin Win,As far as I know, Obliquity is used in the conext of ayanamsa computation. I am not using this parameter explicitly because the KPA

formulas do not consider it (I am not using Swiss ephemeris formula for calculating KPA). There other parameters such as " Nutation " which are very complex to understand and use in real practice. I sincerely

believe that these will be appropriate if we are writing an astronomy program, but I am skeptical about their utility in astrology. When most astrologers do not even have a good knowledge the basic astrological principles, there is very little point in worrying about

these " exotic " parameters. I would be interested to know how the cuspal and planetary positions agree when Astrowonder uses obliquity but KPAstro does not? Is it that Astrowonder just displays the obliquity value without using it

in any meaningful way? In that case, there is no further merit in discussing this because it is just cosmetics. Regards,Rangarajan , Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan

wrote:>> Dear Gopal> Do you mean that the obliquity is not considered in KPASTRO 3.0 or in Jagannatha Hora.> Then how these software results are tallying with Astrowonder.> > Did you find any difference between Astrowonder and KPASTRO 3.0

regarding cuspal positions and planetary positions for same input value. I did not find any difference.> > Dhanabalan> > --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Tkp Ghopal <astrogopalji_tkp wrote:

> > Tkp Ghopal <astrogopalji_tkp> Re: Re: Progression> > Thursday, October 2, 2008, 9:56 AM

> > > > > > > > > > > > Mr.Dhanabalan> I am sorry to state.The obliquity is not incorporated in all the softwares.It is in the Astrowonder which you use.

> Wishes> tkp> > --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ > wrote:> > Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ >

> Re: Re: Progression> @gro ups.com> Thursday, October 2, 2008, 1:41 AM> > > >

> > > > > > Dear Ramanai> Obliquity is tilting of earth's axis. All we know that earth is 23 1/2 degree tiliting. It is taken for calculation in all softwares including the software in which you are using.

> > Dhanabalan > > --- On Wed, 10/1/08, Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com> wrote:> > Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>

> Re: Re: Progression> @gro ups.com> Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 7:57 AM> > > >

> > Dear Dhanabalan,> > In TMP 3 Prog.chart for 27-10-1942, against Obliquity> there is mention of 23-26-59, which I took it to be as > Ayanamsaa value of 1942 for the date. If it is KPNA(2003)

> 22-48-07, I am happy about it. By the by, what is Obliquity> in this chart pl.?> > K.S.V.Ramani> > - > Dhanabalan R > @gro ups.com

> Wednesday, October 01, 2008 10:42 AM> Re: Re: Progression> > > > > > > > > Dear Ramani> > For the birth chart TMP2, I have used the KPNA(2003) ayanamsa

value 22.48.07. Mr.Tin Win has used 22.48.06 in KPASTRO 3.0. Values are same. > > In the progression chart TMP3 also, the same KPNA(2003) ayanamsa value 22.48.07 is used. The value is printed in the chart itself.

There is no difference in dasa balance. DBAS are same for both the charts.> > I am not able to understand how you are telling that I have used the ayanamsa value 23.26.59. I have not used the ayanamsa value

23.26.59 for progression chart.> > The DBAS for Moon on 27-10-1942 is Mars-Venus-Venus- Rahu> The Moon position in p.charts is Mars-Venus-venus- Rahu> > The DBAS for Asc on 27-10-1942 is Moon-Sat-Sat- Jupiter

> The Ascendant position in p.chart is Moon-Sat-Sat- Jupiter> > The DBAS for Sun on 27-10-1942 is Jup-Rahu-Mer- Mer> The Sun position in p.charts is Jup-Rahu-Mer- Mer

> > The DBAS for Mars on 27-10-1942 is Mer-Rahu-Jup- Mer> The Mars position in p.charts is Mer-Rahu-Jup- Mer> > Hence the progression chart is correct. > > Please tell me how you arrived the ayanamsa value 23.26.59.

> In the software I am using has the facility to see the DBAS for all the planets and Ascendant with a clik of a button. The facility to rotate the chart with or without recalculation. The facility of transit chart and movement chart. If it is not available in KPASTRO

3.0, ask them to introduce these facilities.> > Dhanabalan> > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com> wrote:>

> Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>> Re: Re: Progression> @gro ups.com

> Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 3:26 PM> > > > > > Dear Mr.Dhanabalan,> > 2 Charts (1) Natal Birth chart & (2) Progressed chart for> 27-10-1942 are attached with your mail to Mr.Tin Win.

> While the Ayanamsa shown for natal birth chart is correct as per KPNA(2003), I find that that the Ayanamsa 23-26-59> (DMS) is not tallying with the KPNA(2003), difference being more than 28' in value. Kindly intimate which Ayanamsa is

> used for the Prog.chart for 27-10-42. It is not tallying with> KP straight line Ayanamsa too. Pl.excuse me for troubling you.> Astrologically yours,> K.S.V.Ramani > > -

> Dhanabalan R > @gro ups.com > Tuesday, September 30, 2008 8:49 AM> Re: Re: Progression>

> > > > > > > > Dear Tin Win> The birth chart and the progression chart for the date 27-10-1942 based on KPNA is attached. The KPNA value taken is 22.48.07. The Asc.

Cp 16.00.00. All the values are matching with KPASTRO 3.0.> But in KPASTRO, the general significator is taken. > > In the software I am using, the significators in the progression

chart are based on the progressed position of the planets and Ascendant. Hence the value differ from natal chart. Late Mr.Mohan took two years to develop this progression method. The reliability of this progression chart has to be studied in depth before put into

practice. There is different of opinion among the k.p. astrologers about this progression method. But this method is reasonable when compare to other progression methods.> > Dhanabalan> > --- On Mon, 9/29/08, tw853 <tw853 > wrote:

> > tw853 <tw853 >> Re: Progression> @gro ups.com> Monday, September 29, 2008, 11:56 AM

> > > > > > Dear Ramani ji,> > 1. Sorry the following significations are given from progression chart.> > > 4) Ma(7,4,11); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Ra+(3,10,6,9, ....)

> >> > 5) Ve(11,5,10); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Mo(5,7)> > 2. They should be from natal chart as given under.> > 4) Ma(7,4,11,12) ; Stl Me(10,7,9): Sbl Ra+(3,10,7,9, ....) (no plt

in Ra> star)> > 5) Ve(11,5,6,10) ; Stl Me(10,7,9): Sbl Mo(5,8)> > Thanks and regards,> > tw> @gro ups.com, " tw853 " <tw853@> wrote:

> >> > Dear Ramani ji,> >> > > Native's natal chart details: Male; DOB 8-11-1930 Saturday> > > at 10-44 AM at Royapuram, Madras (now Chennai), 13-4(N)> > > 80-17(E). Events (known):

> > > (1) Father's demise - 27-10-1942;> >> > For presentation of this progression method, could you kindly check> > and confirm or correct whether,> >> > 1) progression chart for 27-10-1942 is Asc Cp 15:59:48 using New

KPA> > 22:48:06 ;> > 2)> (1) Father's demise - 27-10-1942 (Ma-Ve DB by natal chart);> > 3) Ma (Mo-Me-Ra, Sgl-Stl-Sbl) ; Ve(Ma-Me-Mo) by progress chart;> >> > 4) Ma(7,4,11); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Ra+(3,10,6,9, ....)

> >> > 5) Ve(11,5,10); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Mo(5,7)> >> > as given by KPAstro 3.0.> >> > Thanks and regards,> >> > tw> >> >

> >> > @gro ups.com, " Ramani " kadavasalramani@> > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sri Dhanabalan,

> > >> > > I am extremely grateful to your kind offer to prepare Progressed> > chat for the events. Last time I got the chart for 17-9-2008, on> > which date there was no event and I could not analyse the chart

with> > event. I am giving 4 events first to enable you to send in one mail.> > Rest I will let you know later. I will also discuss with the> > progressed chart as I understand it.> > > Native's natal chart details: Male; DOB 8-11-1930 Saturday

> > > at 10-44 AM at Royapuram, Madras (now Chennai), 13-4(N)> > > 80-17(E). Events (known):> > > (1) Father's demise - 27-10-1942; (2) Mother's demise 10-1-1963;> > (3) Marriage - 27-5-1954; (4) Birth of son: 23-9-1967

> > >> > > Astrologically yours,> > >> > > K.s.V.Ramani> > >> > > -> > > Dhanabalan R> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:50 PM> > > Re: Progression> > >> > >> > > Dear Ramani> > >> > > Please give the time of events like marriage, child birth

> > date and some other events. I will send the progression charts for 4> > events through one mail. Then we will analyse the charts.> > >> > > I do not have the copy of A & A for the year 1999. You can

> > apply that principle in your chart and explain to the members. I can> > send you any number of progression charts if you give the details.> > >> > > Dhanabalan> > >

> > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Ramani kadavasalramani@ wrote:> > >> > > Ramani kadavasalramani@> > > Progression> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Sunday, September 21, 2008, 4:40 AM> > >> > >> > > Dear Sri Dhanabalan R,> > >> > > This refers to my query and group discussions about

> > Progression with ref. to VMDBA. In this connection,> > > I would like to draw your attention and also of group> > > members, a fine article on Progression by late Sri KMS> > > in K.P. & Astrology Annual 1999, wherein he has discussed

> > about the utility of the Progressed chart. Thanks for your model> > chart furnished to me.> > >> > > Thanking you once again,> > > Astrologically yours,> > > K.S.V.Ramani

> > >> >>

October 4, 2008

& #65007;Dear Punit Pandey ji,

1. Thanks for explanation as a SW developer, not like a SW user or

distributor.

2. For the user the accuracy of SW is important and the cuspal and

planetary positions of KPAstro 3.0 are the same (not more than 1-2

sec difference due to rounding) as Astrodienst, the provider and user

of Swiss ephemeris.

3. There are some notable differences between KPAstro 3.0 without

using Obliquity and AstroSage using Obliquity as shown in Msg#16101

and 16093. (Figures can be seen more clearly in table form in " KP for

Beginners- Part 3: Casting a Horoscope by Computer " , KPEZine June

2008, now dowloadable at

http://loger.com

FREE of charge.)

4. From this the following Rangarajan's question become mor valid>

> > I would be interested to know how the cuspal and planetary

positions > > agree when Astrowonder uses obliquity but KPAstro does

not?

Thanks and regards,

tw

, " Punit Pandey " <punitp wrote:

>

> Dear Tw ji,

>

> In my opinion, Obliquity has nothing to do with Ayanamsa

calculation. In

> fact, Obliquity is used in spherical trigonometry/ celestial

astronomy for

> calculating cuspal positions. Without using Obliquity, it is no

possible to

> calculate ascendant and other cusps. We are using Obliquity in

> AstroSage.com<http://www.astrosage.com/>and our other softwares. I

am

> sure every software that uses spherical

> trigonometry as against the static database will have to use

Obliquity to

> get the correct calculations. As Rangarajan ji is using Swiss

ephemeris,

> he is probably not reuqired to do the cuspal calculation in KPAstro,

> as Swiss software will be doing calculation for him and using

Obliquity

> internally. Astronomically, Obliquity is the tilt of axis of

heavenly

> body from it's orbital plane (tilt from perpendicular to the

orbital plane,

> to be exact). Obliquity is very well defined in WikiPedia and the

people

> interested in mathematical astrology must have a look at it at

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_tilt

>

> Once you have calculated Obliquity, ascendant can be calculated as

follows -

>

> ASC = ARCCOT (- ( (TAN LATITUDE x SIN OBLIQUITY) + (SIN RAMC x COS

> OBLIQUITY) ) ÷ COS RAMC)

> I hope it helps.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 9:37 AM, tw853 <tw853 wrote:

>

> > Here is the view of KPAstro 3.0 developer, Dr. Rangarajan

> > Krishnamoorthy.

> >

> > Re: Re: Progression Thursday, October 2, 2008 11:49

PM

> >

> > " Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy " <ranga<ranga%40mmsindia.com>

> > >

> > tw853 <tw853%40>

> >

> > Dear Tin Win,

> >

> > As far as I know, Obliquity is used in the conext of ayanamsa

> > computation. I am not using this parameter explicitly because the

KPA

> > formulas do not consider it (I am not using Swiss ephemeris

formula

> > for calculating KPA). There other parameters such as " Nutation "

which

> > are very complex to understand and use in real practice. I

sincerely

> > believe that these will be appropriate if we are writing an

astronomy

> > program, but I am skeptical about their utility in astrology. When

> > most astrologers do not even have a good knowledge the basic

> > astrological principles, there is very little point in worrying

about

> > these " exotic " parameters.

> >

> > I would be interested to know how the cuspal and planetary

positions

> > agree when Astrowonder uses obliquity but KPAstro does not? Is it

> > that Astrowonder just displays the obliquity value without using

it

> > in any meaningful way? In that case, there is no further merit in

> > discussing this because it is just cosmetics.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Rangarajan

> >

> > <%40>,

> > Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Gopal

> > > Do you mean that the obliquity is not considered in KPASTRO 3.0

or

> > in Jagannatha Hora.

> > > Then how these software results are tallying with Astrowonder.

> > >

> > > Did you find any difference between Astrowonder and KPASTRO 3.0

> > regarding cuspal positions and planetary positions for same input

> > value. I did not find any difference.

> > >

> > > Dhanabalan

> > >

> > > --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Tkp Ghopal <astrogopalji_tkp@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Tkp Ghopal <astrogopalji_tkp@>

> > > Re: Re: Progression

> > > <%40>

> > > Thursday, October 2, 2008, 9:56 AM

> > >

> > > Mr.Dhanabalan

> > > I am sorry to state.The obliquity is not incorporated in all the

> > softwares.It is in the Astrowonder which you use.

> > > Wishes

> > > tkp

> > >

> > > --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ >

wrote:

> > >

> > > Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ >

> > > Re: Re: Progression

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Thursday, October 2, 2008, 1:41 AM

> > >

> > > Dear Ramanai

> > > Obliquity is tilting of earth's axis. All we know that earth is

23

> > 1/2 degree tiliting. It is taken for calculation in all softwares

> > including the software in which you are using.

> > >

> > > Dhanabalan

> > >

> > > --- On Wed, 10/1/08, Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com> wrote:

> > >

> > > Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>

> > > Re: Re: Progression

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 7:57 AM

> > >

> > > Dear Dhanabalan,

> > >

> > > In TMP 3 Prog.chart for 27-10-1942, against Obliquity

> > > there is mention of 23-26-59, which I took it to be as

> > > Ayanamsaa value of 1942 for the date. If it is KPNA(2003)

> > > 22-48-07, I am happy about it. By the by, what is Obliquity

> > > in this chart pl.?

> > >

> > > K.S.V.Ramani

> > >

> > > -

> > > Dhanabalan R

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Wednesday, October 01, 2008 10:42 AM

> > > Re: Re: Progression

> > >

> > > Dear Ramani

> > >

> > > For the birth chart TMP2, I have used the KPNA(2003) ayanamsa

> > value 22.48.07. Mr.Tin Win has used 22.48.06 in KPASTRO 3.0.

Values

> > are same.

> > >

> > > In the progression chart TMP3 also, the same KPNA(2003) ayanamsa

> > value 22.48.07 is used. The value is printed in the chart itself.

> > There is no difference in dasa balance. DBAS are same for both the

> > charts.

> > >

> > > I am not able to understand how you are telling that I have used

> > the ayanamsa value 23.26.59. I have not used the ayanamsa value

> > 23.26.59 for progression chart.

> > >

> > > The DBAS for Moon on 27-10-1942 is Mars-Venus-Venus- Rahu

> > > The Moon position in p.charts is Mars-Venus-

venus-

> > Rahu

> > >

> > > The DBAS for Asc on 27-10-1942 is Moon-Sat-Sat- Jupiter

> > > The Ascendant position in p.chart is Moon-Sat-Sat-

Jupiter

> > >

> > > The DBAS for Sun on 27-10-1942 is Jup-Rahu-Mer- Mer

> > > The Sun position in p.charts is Jup-Rahu-Mer-

Mer

> > >

> > > The DBAS for Mars on 27-10-1942 is Mer-Rahu-Jup- Mer

> > > The Mars position in p.charts is Mer-Rahu-Jup-

Mer

> > >

> > > Hence the progression chart is correct.

> > >

> > > Please tell me how you arrived the ayanamsa value 23.26.59.

> > > In the software I am using has the facility to see the DBAS for

all

> > the planets and Ascendant with a clik of a button. The facility to

> > rotate the chart with or without recalculation. The facility of

> > transit chart and movement chart. If it is not available in

KPASTRO

> > 3.0, ask them to introduce these facilities.

> > >

> > > Dhanabalan

> > >

> > > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com> wrote:

> > >

> > > Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>

> > > Re: Re: Progression

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 3:26 PM

> > >

> > > Dear Mr.Dhanabalan,

> > >

> > > 2 Charts (1) Natal Birth chart & (2) Progressed chart for

> > > 27-10-1942 are attached with your mail to Mr.Tin Win.

> > > While the Ayanamsa shown for natal birth chart is correct as per

> > KPNA(2003), I find that that the Ayanamsa 23-26-59

> > > (DMS) is not tallying with the KPNA(2003), difference being more

> > than 28' in value. Kindly intimate which Ayanamsa is

> > > used for the Prog.chart for 27-10-42. It is not tallying with

> > > KP straight line Ayanamsa too. Pl.excuse me for troubling you.

> > > Astrologically yours,

> > > K.S.V.Ramani

> > >

> > > -

> > > Dhanabalan R

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Tuesday, September 30, 2008 8:49 AM

> > > Re: Re: Progression

> > >

> > > Dear Tin Win

> > > The birth chart and the progression chart for the date 27-10-

1942

> > based on KPNA is attached. The KPNA value taken is 22.48.07. The

Asc.

> > Cp 16.00.00. All the values are matching with KPASTRO 3.0.

> > > But in KPASTRO, the general significator is taken.

> > >

> > > In the software I am using, the significators in the progression

> > chart are based on the progressed position of the planets and

> > Ascendant. Hence the value differ from natal chart. Late Mr.Mohan

> > took two years to develop this progression method. The

reliability of

> > this progression chart has to be studied in depth before put into

> > practice. There is different of opinion among the k.p. astrologers

> > about this progression method. But this method is reasonable when

> > compare to other progression methods.

> > >

> > > Dhanabalan

> > >

> > > --- On Mon, 9/29/08, tw853 <tw853 > wrote:

> > >

> > > tw853 <tw853 >

> > > Re: Progression

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Monday, September 29, 2008, 11:56 AM

> > >

> > > Dear Ramani ji,

> > >

> > > 1. Sorry the following significations are given from progression

> > chart.

> > >

> > > > 4) Ma(7,4,11); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Ra+(3,10,6,9, ....)

> > > >

> > > > 5) Ve(11,5,10); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Mo(5,7)

> > >

> > > 2. They should be from natal chart as given under.

> > >

> > > 4) Ma(7,4,11,12) ; Stl Me(10,7,9): Sbl Ra+(3,10,7,9, ....) (no

plt

> > in Ra

> > > star)

> > >

> > > 5) Ve(11,5,6,10) ; Stl Me(10,7,9): Sbl Mo(5,8)

> > >

> > > Thanks and regards,

> > >

> > > tw

> > > @gro ups.com, " tw853 " <tw853@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Ramani ji,

> > > >

> > > > > Native's natal chart details: Male; DOB 8-11-1930 Saturday

> > > > > at 10-44 AM at Royapuram, Madras (now Chennai), 13-4(N)

> > > > > 80-17(E). Events (known):

> > > > > (1) Father's demise - 27-10-1942;

> > > >

> > > > For presentation of this progression method, could you kindly

> > check

> > > > and confirm or correct whether,

> > > >

> > > > 1) progression chart for 27-10-1942 is Asc Cp 15:59:48 using

New

> > KPA

> > > > 22:48:06 ;

> > > > 2)> (1) Father's demise - 27-10-1942 (Ma-Ve DB by natal

chart);

> > > > 3) Ma (Mo-Me-Ra, Sgl-Stl-Sbl) ; Ve(Ma-Me-Mo) by progress

chart;

> > > >

> > > > 4) Ma(7,4,11); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Ra+(3,10,6,9, ....)

> > > >

> > > > 5) Ve(11,5,10); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Mo(5,7)

> > > >

> > > > as given by KPAstro 3.0.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks and regards,

> > > >

> > > > tw

> > > >

> > > > @gro ups.com, " Ramani " kadavasalramani@

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Sri Dhanabalan,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am extremely grateful to your kind offer to prepare

Progressed

> > > > chat for the events. Last time I got the chart for 17-9-2008,

on

> > > > which date there was no event and I could not analyse the

chart

> > with

> > > > event. I am giving 4 events first to enable you to send in one

> > mail.

> > > > Rest I will let you know later. I will also discuss with the

> > > > progressed chart as I understand it.

> > > > > Native's natal chart details: Male; DOB 8-11-1930 Saturday

> > > > > at 10-44 AM at Royapuram, Madras (now Chennai), 13-4(N)

> > > > > 80-17(E). Events (known):

> > > > > (1) Father's demise - 27-10-1942; (2) Mother's demise 10-1-

1963;

> > > > (3) Marriage - 27-5-1954; (4) Birth of son: 23-9-1967

> > > > >

> > > > > Astrologically yours,

> > > > >

> > > > > K.s.V.Ramani

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > Dhanabalan R

> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:50 PM

> > > > > Re: Progression

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Ramani

> > > > >

> > > > > Please give the time of events like marriage, child birth

> > > > date and some other events. I will send the progression charts

> > for 4

> > > > events through one mail. Then we will analyse the charts.

> > > > >

> > > > > I do not have the copy of A & A for the year 1999. You can

> > > > apply that principle in your chart and explain to the

members. I

> > can

> > > > send you any number of progression charts if you give the

details.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dhanabalan

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Ramani kadavasalramani@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Ramani kadavasalramani@

> > > > > Progression

> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Sunday, September 21, 2008, 4:40 AM

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Sri Dhanabalan R,

> > > > >

> > > > > This refers to my query and group discussions about

> > > > Progression with ref. to VMDBA. In this connection,

> > > > > I would like to draw your attention and also of group

> > > > > members, a fine article on Progression by late Sri KMS

> > > > > in K.P. & Astrology Annual 1999, wherein he has discussed

> > > > about the utility of the Progressed chart. Thanks for your

model

> > > > chart furnished to me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanking you once again,

> > > > > Astrologically yours,

> > > > > K.S.V.Ramani

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

October 4, 2008

Dear Tw ji,

The statement made in point number no. 3 that KPAstro is not using Obliquity seems incorrect to me. One is required to use Obliquity in order to calculate cuspal positions. Though there is possibility that a software developer is using average Obliquity value in place of calculating Obliquity for the exact moment which may be slightly different from the average Obliquity. Whether one uses average Obliquity value or calculate it for the moment, it means that the Obliquity has been used. I have already posted formulate for Obliquity calculation and that forumula tells the importance of Obliquity in cuspal postion calcualtion. This is standard forumula for ascendant calculation. I also believe that the claim by Ghopal ji that only AstroWonder is using Obliquity is incorrect due to the above reasons.

In my opinion, KP Astro is using Obliquity and I have my reasons for saying so. I believe that KPAstro is using using Swiss ephemeris not only for planetary position calculation but also for cuspal calculation as the cuspal results from AstroDinest is matching with KPAstro. In this context, it would be useful to understand what exactly is the Swiss emphemeris. Swiss ephemeris is not a table the way generally people think of. It is a table plus a software with application programming interface (API) which is licensed by Astrodienst to astrology software developers so that astrology software developer will not have to worry about the mathematics of calculating positions of heavenly bodies and they can focus on writing code for various systems like parashari and KP. It simplifies the process of witting astrology software because major mathematical calculation has been taken care by Swiss ephemeris. It also adds accuracy becuase it is been done my a company (Astrodienst ) whole primary job is to write those astronomical formula. Now when I say that KPAstro must be using Obliquity, I mean that Swiss ephemeris is using Obliquity which in turn being used by KPAstro. KPAstro is not rquired to do that calculation because it defers all position calculation to Swiss ephemeris.

I also want to add my thoughts about Swiss ephemeris as those may be useful for the members. Swiss ephemeris is popular because it uses planetary positions published by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory which is regarded as standard. NASA JPL ephemeris is ephemeris in technical sense as against Swiss which is a software + ephemeris. As NASA JPL is primarily for planetary positions and not for cuspal positions, so Swiss ephemeris or NASA JPL for calculating cuspal positions doesn't make much sense to me other than that the software by Swiss ephemeris uses some cuspal position calculation formulae similar to other software.

I hope it answers your questions.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 7:37 AM, tw853 <tw853 wrote:

& #65007;Dear Punit Pandey ji,1. Thanks for explanation as a SW developer, not like a SW user or distributor. 2. For the user the accuracy of SW is important and the cuspal and planetary positions of KPAstro 3.0 are the same (not more than 1-2

sec difference due to rounding) as Astrodienst, the provider and user of Swiss ephemeris.3. There are some notable differences between KPAstro 3.0 without using Obliquity and AstroSage using Obliquity as shown in Msg#16101

and 16093. (Figures can be seen more clearly in table form in " KP for Beginners- Part 3: Casting a Horoscope by Computer " , KPEZine June 2008, now dowloadable at http://loger.com

FREE of charge.)4. From this the following Rangarajan's question become mor valid> > > I would be interested to know how the cuspal and planetary positions > > agree when Astrowonder uses obliquity but KPAstro does not?Thanks and regards,

tw

, " Punit Pandey " <punitp wrote:>> Dear Tw ji,> > In my opinion, Obliquity has nothing to do with Ayanamsa

calculation. In> fact, Obliquity is used in spherical trigonometry/ celestial astronomy for> calculating cuspal positions. Without using Obliquity, it is no possible to> calculate ascendant and other cusps. We are using Obliquity in

> AstroSage.com<http://www.astrosage.com/>and our other softwares. I

am> sure every software that uses spherical> trigonometry as against the static database will have to use Obliquity to> get the correct calculations. As Rangarajan ji is using Swiss

ephemeris,> he is probably not reuqired to do the cuspal calculation in KPAstro,> as Swiss software will be doing calculation for him and using Obliquity> internally. Astronomically, Obliquity is the tilt of axis of

heavenly> body from it's orbital plane (tilt from perpendicular to the orbital plane,> to be exact). Obliquity is very well defined in WikiPedia and the people> interested in mathematical astrology must have a look at it at

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_tilt> > Once you have calculated Obliquity, ascendant can be calculated as follows ->

> ASC = ARCCOT (- ( (TAN LATITUDE x SIN OBLIQUITY) + (SIN RAMC x COS> OBLIQUITY) ) ÷ COS RAMC)> I hope it helps.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> >

> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 9:37 AM, tw853 <tw853 wrote:> > > Here is the view of KPAstro 3.0 developer, Dr. Rangarajan> > Krishnamoorthy.> >> > Re: Re: Progression Thursday, October 2, 2008 11:49

PM> >> > " Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy " <ranga<ranga%40mmsindia.com>> > >> > tw853 <tw853%40>

> >> > Dear Tin Win,> >> > As far as I know, Obliquity is used in the conext of ayanamsa> > computation. I am not using this parameter explicitly because the

KPA> > formulas do not consider it (I am not using Swiss ephemeris formula> > for calculating KPA). There other parameters such as " Nutation " which> > are very complex to understand and use in real practice. I

sincerely> > believe that these will be appropriate if we are writing an astronomy> > program, but I am skeptical about their utility in astrology. When> > most astrologers do not even have a good knowledge the basic

> > astrological principles, there is very little point in worrying about> > these " exotic " parameters.> >> > I would be interested to know how the cuspal and planetary

positions> > agree when Astrowonder uses obliquity but KPAstro does not? Is it> > that Astrowonder just displays the obliquity value without using it> > in any meaningful way? In that case, there is no further merit in

> > discussing this because it is just cosmetics.> >> > Regards,> >> > Rangarajan> >> > <%40>, > > Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@>> > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Gopal> > > Do you mean that the obliquity is not considered in KPASTRO 3.0

or> > in Jagannatha Hora.> > > Then how these software results are tallying with Astrowonder.> > >> > > Did you find any difference between Astrowonder and KPASTRO 3.0> > regarding cuspal positions and planetary positions for same input

> > value. I did not find any difference.> > >> > > Dhanabalan> > >> > > --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Tkp Ghopal <astrogopalji_tkp@> wrote:> > >> > > Tkp Ghopal <astrogopalji_tkp@>

> > > Re: Re: Progression> > > <%40>

> > > Thursday, October 2, 2008, 9:56 AM> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >

> > >> > >> > >> > > Mr.Dhanabalan> > > I am sorry to state.The obliquity is not incorporated in all the> > softwares.It is in the Astrowonder which you use.

> > > Wishes> > > tkp> > >> > > --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ > wrote:> > >

> > > Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ >> > > Re: Re: Progression> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Thursday, October 2, 2008, 1:41 AM> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >

> > > Dear Ramanai> > > Obliquity is tilting of earth's axis. All we know that earth is 23> > 1/2 degree tiliting. It is taken for calculation in all softwares> > including the software in which you are using.

> > >> > > Dhanabalan> > >> > > --- On Wed, 10/1/08, Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com> wrote:> > >> > > Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>

> > > Re: Re: Progression> > > @gro ups.com> > > Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 7:57 AM> > >

> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Dhanabalan,> > >> > > In TMP 3 Prog.chart for 27-10-1942, against Obliquity> > > there is mention of 23-26-59, which I took it to be as

> > > Ayanamsaa value of 1942 for the date. If it is KPNA(2003)> > > 22-48-07, I am happy about it. By the by, what is Obliquity> > > in this chart pl.?> > >> > > K.S.V.Ramani

> > >> > > -> > > Dhanabalan R> > > @gro ups.com> > > Wednesday, October 01, 2008 10:42 AM

> > > Re: Re: Progression> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Ramani

> > >> > > For the birth chart TMP2, I have used the KPNA(2003) ayanamsa> > value 22.48.07. Mr.Tin Win has used 22.48.06 in KPASTRO 3.0.

Values> > are same.> > >> > > In the progression chart TMP3 also, the same KPNA(2003) ayanamsa> > value 22.48.07 is used. The value is printed in the chart itself.> > There is no difference in dasa balance. DBAS are same for both the

> > charts.> > >> > > I am not able to understand how you are telling that I have used> > the ayanamsa value 23.26.59. I have not used the ayanamsa value

> > 23.26.59 for progression chart.> > >> > > The DBAS for Moon on 27-10-1942 is Mars-Venus-Venus- Rahu> > > The Moon position in p.charts is Mars-Venus-venus-> > Rahu

> > >> > > The DBAS for Asc on 27-10-1942 is Moon-Sat-Sat- Jupiter> > > The Ascendant position in p.chart is Moon-Sat-Sat- Jupiter> > >> > > The DBAS for Sun on 27-10-1942 is Jup-Rahu-Mer- Mer

> > > The Sun position in p.charts is Jup-Rahu-Mer-Mer> > >> > > The DBAS for Mars on 27-10-1942 is Mer-Rahu-Jup- Mer> > > The Mars position in p.charts is Mer-Rahu-Jup-

Mer> > >> > > Hence the progression chart is correct.> > >> > > Please tell me how you arrived the ayanamsa value 23.26.59.

> > > In the software I am using has the facility to see the DBAS for all> > the planets and Ascendant with a clik of a button. The facility to> > rotate the chart with or without recalculation. The facility of

> > transit chart and movement chart. If it is not available in KPASTRO> > 3.0, ask them to introduce these facilities.> > >> > > Dhanabalan> > >> > > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com> wrote:

> > >> > > Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>> > > Re: Re: Progression> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 3:26 PM> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Mr.Dhanabalan,> > >> > > 2 Charts (1) Natal Birth chart & (2) Progressed chart for

> > > 27-10-1942 are attached with your mail to Mr.Tin Win.> > > While the Ayanamsa shown for natal birth chart is correct as per> > KPNA(2003), I find that that the Ayanamsa 23-26-59> > > (DMS) is not tallying with the KPNA(2003), difference being more

> > than 28' in value. Kindly intimate which Ayanamsa is> > > used for the Prog.chart for 27-10-42. It is not tallying with> > > KP straight line Ayanamsa too. Pl.excuse me for troubling you.

> > > Astrologically yours,> > > K.S.V.Ramani> > >> > > -> > > Dhanabalan R> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Tuesday, September 30, 2008 8:49 AM> > > Re: Re: Progression> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >

> > >> > >> > > Dear Tin Win> > > The birth chart and the progression chart for the date 27-10-1942> > based on KPNA is attached. The KPNA value taken is 22.48.07. The

Asc.> > Cp 16.00.00. All the values are matching with KPASTRO 3.0.> > > But in KPASTRO, the general significator is taken.> > >> > > In the software I am using, the significators in the progression

> > chart are based on the progressed position of the planets and> > Ascendant. Hence the value differ from natal chart. Late Mr.Mohan> > took two years to develop this progression method. The

reliability of> > this progression chart has to be studied in depth before put into> > practice. There is different of opinion among the k.p. astrologers> > about this progression method. But this method is reasonable when

> > compare to other progression methods.> > >> > > Dhanabalan> > >> > > --- On Mon, 9/29/08, tw853 <tw853 > wrote:> > >> > > tw853 <tw853 >

> > > Re: Progression> > > @gro ups.com> > > Monday, September 29, 2008, 11:56 AM> > >

> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Ramani ji,> > >> > > 1. Sorry the following significations are given from progression> > chart.

> > >> > > > 4) Ma(7,4,11); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Ra+(3,10,6,9, ....)> > > >> > > > 5) Ve(11,5,10); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Mo(5,7)> > >> > > 2. They should be from natal chart as given under.

> > >> > > 4) Ma(7,4,11,12) ; Stl Me(10,7,9): Sbl Ra+(3,10,7,9, ....) (no plt> > in Ra> > > star)> > >> > > 5) Ve(11,5,6,10) ; Stl Me(10,7,9): Sbl Mo(5,8)

> > >> > > Thanks and regards,> > >> > > tw> > > @gro ups.com, " tw853 " <tw853@> wrote:

> > > >> > > > Dear Ramani ji,> > > >> > > > > Native's natal chart details: Male; DOB 8-11-1930 Saturday> > > > > at 10-44 AM at Royapuram, Madras (now Chennai), 13-4(N)

> > > > > 80-17(E). Events (known):> > > > > (1) Father's demise - 27-10-1942;> > > >> > > > For presentation of this progression method, could you kindly

> > check> > > > and confirm or correct whether,> > > >> > > > 1) progression chart for 27-10-1942 is Asc Cp 15:59:48 using New> > KPA> > > > 22:48:06 ;

> > > > 2)> (1) Father's demise - 27-10-1942 (Ma-Ve DB by natal chart);> > > > 3) Ma (Mo-Me-Ra, Sgl-Stl-Sbl) ; Ve(Ma-Me-Mo) by progress chart;> > > >> > > > 4) Ma(7,4,11); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Ra+(3,10,6,9, ....)

> > > >> > > > 5) Ve(11,5,10); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Mo(5,7)> > > >> > > > as given by KPAstro 3.0.> > > >> > > > Thanks and regards,

> > > >> > > > tw> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > @gro ups.com, " Ramani " kadavasalramani@

> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Sri Dhanabalan,> > > > >> > > > > I am extremely grateful to your kind offer to prepare Progressed

> > > > chat for the events. Last time I got the chart for 17-9-2008, on> > > > which date there was no event and I could not analyse the chart> > with> > > > event. I am giving 4 events first to enable you to send in one

> > mail.> > > > Rest I will let you know later. I will also discuss with the> > > > progressed chart as I understand it.> > > > > Native's natal chart details: Male; DOB 8-11-1930 Saturday

> > > > > at 10-44 AM at Royapuram, Madras (now Chennai), 13-4(N)> > > > > 80-17(E). Events (known):> > > > > (1) Father's demise - 27-10-1942; (2) Mother's demise 10-1-

1963;> > > > (3) Marriage - 27-5-1954; (4) Birth of son: 23-9-1967> > > > >> > > > > Astrologically yours,> > > > >> > > > > K.s.V.Ramani

> > > > >> > > > > -> > > > > Dhanabalan R> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:50 PM> > > > > Re: Progression> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear Ramani

> > > > >> > > > > Please give the time of events like marriage, child birth> > > > date and some other events. I will send the progression charts> > for 4> > > > events through one mail. Then we will analyse the charts.

> > > > >> > > > > I do not have the copy of A & A for the year 1999. You can> > > > apply that principle in your chart and explain to the members. I> > can

> > > > send you any number of progression charts if you give the details.> > > > >> > > > > Dhanabalan> > > > >> > > > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Ramani kadavasalramani@ wrote:

> > > > >> > > > > Ramani kadavasalramani@> > > > > Progression> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Sunday, September 21, 2008, 4:40 AM> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear Sri Dhanabalan R,> > > > >> > > > > This refers to my query and group discussions about

> > > > Progression with ref. to VMDBA. In this connection,> > > > > I would like to draw your attention and also of group> > > > > members, a fine article on Progression by late Sri KMS

> > > > > in K.P. & Astrology Annual 1999, wherein he has discussed> > > > about the utility of the Progressed chart. Thanks for your model> > > > chart furnished to me.

> > > > >> > > > > Thanking you once again,> > > > > Astrologically yours,> > > > > K.S.V.Ramani> > > > >> > > >

> > >> >> > > >>

October 5, 2008

Dear Punit Pandey ji,

1. You're right that

" The Swiss Ephemeris package also includes a function that computes

the Ascendant, the MC, the houses, the Vertex, and the Equatorial

Ascendant (sometimes called " East Point " ). "

-SWISS EPHEMERIS

Computer ephemeris for developers of astrological software

2. In comparison of SWs in Msg#16101/16006/4218/3477/2036/1423 of this

group and " KP for Beginners- Part 1,2,3: Casting a Horoscope by Hand

and Computer " , KPEZine April, May, June 2008, now dowloadable at

http://loger.com, FREE of charge, it has been found that:

1) both planetary and cuspal positions by Astrodienst/ KPAstro 3.0 are

consistent with results of manual calculation from another NASA's Jet

Propulsion Laboratory data based American Ephemeris and mostly used

Placidus House Tables, and also with calculation results of the

AstroDatabank, a leader in astrological research .

2) not all Swiss ephemeris using SWs give the same results of

Astrodienst.

Thanks and regards,

tw

, " Punit Pandey " <punitp wrote:

>

> Dear Tw ji,

>

> The statement made in point number no. 3 that KPAstro is not using

Obliquity

> seems incorrect to me. One is required to use Obliquity in order to

> calculate cuspal positions. Though there is possibility that a software

> developer is using average Obliquity value in place of calculating

Obliquity

> for the exact moment which may be slightly different from the average

> Obliquity. Whether one uses average Obliquity value or calculate it

for the

> moment, it means that the Obliquity has been used. I have already posted

> formulate for Obliquity calculation and that forumula tells the

importance

> of Obliquity in cuspal postion calcualtion. This is standard

forumula for

> ascendant calculation. I also believe that the claim by Ghopal ji

that only

> AstroWonder is using Obliquity is incorrect due to the above reasons.

>

> In my opinion, KP Astro is using Obliquity and I have my reasons for

saying

> so. I believe that KPAstro is using using Swiss ephemeris not only for

> planetary position calculation but also for cuspal calculation as

the cuspal

> results from AstroDinest is matching with KPAstro. In this context,

it would

> be useful to understand what exactly is the Swiss emphemeris. Swiss

> ephemeris is not a table the way generally people think of. It is a

table

> plus a software with application programming interface (API) which is

> licensed by Astrodienst to astrology software developers so that

astrology

> software developer will not have to worry about the mathematics of

> calculating positions of heavenly bodies and they can focus on

writing code

> for various systems like parashari and KP. It simplifies the process of

> witting astrology software because major mathematical calculation

has been

> taken care by Swiss ephemeris. It also adds accuracy becuase it is

been done

> my a company (Astrodienst ) whole primary job is to write those

astronomical

> formula. Now when I say that KPAstro must be using Obliquity, I

mean that

> Swiss ephemeris is using Obliquity which in turn being used by KPAstro.

> KPAstro is not rquired to do that calculation because it defers all

position

> calculation to Swiss ephemeris.

>

> I also want to add my thoughts about Swiss ephemeris as those may be

useful

> for the members. Swiss ephemeris is popular because it uses planetary

> positions published by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory which is

regarded as

> standard. NASA JPL ephemeris is ephemeris in technical sense as against

> Swiss which is a software + ephemeris. As NASA JPL is primarily for

> planetary positions and not for cuspal positions, so Swiss ephemeris

or NASA

> JPL for calculating cuspal positions doesn't make much sense to me other

> than that the software by Swiss ephemeris uses some cuspal position

> calculation formulae similar to other software.

>

> I hope it answers your questions.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

> On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 7:37 AM, tw853 <tw853 wrote:

>

> > & #65007;Dear Punit Pandey ji,

> >

> > 1. Thanks for explanation as a SW developer, not like a SW user or

> > distributor.

> >

> > 2. For the user the accuracy of SW is important and the cuspal and

> > planetary positions of KPAstro 3.0 are the same (not more than 1-2

> > sec difference due to rounding) as Astrodienst, the provider and user

> > of Swiss ephemeris.

> >

> > 3. There are some notable differences between KPAstro 3.0 without

> > using Obliquity and AstroSage using Obliquity as shown in Msg#16101

> > and 16093. (Figures can be seen more clearly in table form in " KP for

> > Beginners- Part 3: Casting a Horoscope by Computer " , KPEZine June

> > 2008, now dowloadable at

> >

> > http://loger.com

> >

> > FREE of charge.)

> >

> > 4. From this the following Rangarajan's question become mor valid>

> >

> > > > I would be interested to know how the cuspal and planetary

> > positions > > agree when Astrowonder uses obliquity but KPAstro does

> > not?

> >

> > Thanks and regards,

> >

> > tw

> >

> > <%40>,

" Punit

> > Pandey " <punitp@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Tw ji,

> > >

> > > In my opinion, Obliquity has nothing to do with Ayanamsa

> > calculation. In

> > > fact, Obliquity is used in spherical trigonometry/ celestial

> > astronomy for

> > > calculating cuspal positions. Without using Obliquity, it is no

> > possible to

> > > calculate ascendant and other cusps. We are using Obliquity in

> > > AstroSage.com<http://www.astrosage.com/>and our other softwares. I

> > am

> > > sure every software that uses spherical

> > > trigonometry as against the static database will have to use

> > Obliquity to

> > > get the correct calculations. As Rangarajan ji is using Swiss

> > ephemeris,

> > > he is probably not reuqired to do the cuspal calculation in KPAstro,

> > > as Swiss software will be doing calculation for him and using

> > Obliquity

> > > internally. Astronomically, Obliquity is the tilt of axis of

> > heavenly

> > > body from it's orbital plane (tilt from perpendicular to the

> > orbital plane,

> > > to be exact). Obliquity is very well defined in WikiPedia and the

> > people

> > > interested in mathematical astrology must have a look at it at

> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_tilt

> > >

> > > Once you have calculated Obliquity, ascendant can be calculated as

> > follows -

> > >

> > > ASC = ARCCOT (- ( (TAN LATITUDE x SIN OBLIQUITY) + (SIN RAMC x COS

> > > OBLIQUITY) ) ÷ COS RAMC)

> > > I hope it helps.

> > >

> > > Thanks & Regards,

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey

> > >

> > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 9:37 AM, tw853 <tw853@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > Here is the view of KPAstro 3.0 developer, Dr. Rangarajan

> > > > Krishnamoorthy.

> > > >

> > > > Re: Re: Progression Thursday, October 2, 2008 11:49

> > PM

> > > >

> > > > " Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy " <ranga@<ranga%40mmsindia.com>

> > > > >

> > > > tw853@ <tw853%40>

> >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Tin Win,

> > > >

> > > > As far as I know, Obliquity is used in the conext of ayanamsa

> > > > computation. I am not using this parameter explicitly because the

> > KPA

> > > > formulas do not consider it (I am not using Swiss ephemeris

> > formula

> > > > for calculating KPA). There other parameters such as " Nutation "

> > which

> > > > are very complex to understand and use in real practice. I

> > sincerely

> > > > believe that these will be appropriate if we are writing an

> > astronomy

> > > > program, but I am skeptical about their utility in astrology. When

> > > > most astrologers do not even have a good knowledge the basic

> > > > astrological principles, there is very little point in worrying

> > about

> > > > these " exotic " parameters.

> > > >

> > > > I would be interested to know how the cuspal and planetary

> > positions

> > > > agree when Astrowonder uses obliquity but KPAstro does not? Is it

> > > > that Astrowonder just displays the obliquity value without using

> > it

> > > > in any meaningful way? In that case, there is no further merit in

> > > > discussing this because it is just cosmetics.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Rangarajan

> > > >

<%40><%

> > 40>,

> > > > Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Gopal

> > > > > Do you mean that the obliquity is not considered in KPASTRO 3.0

> > or

> > > > in Jagannatha Hora.

> > > > > Then how these software results are tallying with Astrowonder.

> > > > >

> > > > > Did you find any difference between Astrowonder and KPASTRO 3.0

> > > > regarding cuspal positions and planetary positions for same input

> > > > value. I did not find any difference.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dhanabalan

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Tkp Ghopal <astrogopalji_tkp@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Tkp Ghopal <astrogopalji_tkp@>

> > > > > Re: Re: Progression

> > > > >

<%40><%

> > 40>

> >

> > > > > Thursday, October 2, 2008, 9:56 AM

> > > > >

> > > > > Mr.Dhanabalan

> > > > > I am sorry to state.The obliquity is not incorporated in all the

> > > > softwares.It is in the Astrowonder which you use.

> > > > > Wishes

> > > > > tkp

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ >

> > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ >

> > > > > Re: Re: Progression

> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Thursday, October 2, 2008, 1:41 AM

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Ramanai

> > > > > Obliquity is tilting of earth's axis. All we know that earth is

> > 23

> > > > 1/2 degree tiliting. It is taken for calculation in all softwares

> > > > including the software in which you are using.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dhanabalan

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Wed, 10/1/08, Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>

> > > > > Re: Re: Progression

> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 7:57 AM

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Dhanabalan,

> > > > >

> > > > > In TMP 3 Prog.chart for 27-10-1942, against Obliquity

> > > > > there is mention of 23-26-59, which I took it to be as

> > > > > Ayanamsaa value of 1942 for the date. If it is KPNA(2003)

> > > > > 22-48-07, I am happy about it. By the by, what is Obliquity

> > > > > in this chart pl.?

> > > > >

> > > > > K.S.V.Ramani

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > Dhanabalan R

> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Wednesday, October 01, 2008 10:42 AM

> > > > > Re: Re: Progression

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Ramani

> > > > >

> > > > > For the birth chart TMP2, I have used the KPNA(2003) ayanamsa

> > > > value 22.48.07. Mr.Tin Win has used 22.48.06 in KPASTRO 3.0.

> > Values

> > > > are same.

> > > > >

> > > > > In the progression chart TMP3 also, the same KPNA(2003) ayanamsa

> > > > value 22.48.07 is used. The value is printed in the chart itself.

> > > > There is no difference in dasa balance. DBAS are same for both the

> > > > charts.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am not able to understand how you are telling that I have used

> > > > the ayanamsa value 23.26.59. I have not used the ayanamsa value

> > > > 23.26.59 for progression chart.

> > > > >

> > > > > The DBAS for Moon on 27-10-1942 is Mars-Venus-Venus- Rahu

> > > > > The Moon position in p.charts is Mars-Venus-

> > venus-

> > > > Rahu

> > > > >

> > > > > The DBAS for Asc on 27-10-1942 is Moon-Sat-Sat- Jupiter

> > > > > The Ascendant position in p.chart is Moon-Sat-Sat-

> > Jupiter

> > > > >

> > > > > The DBAS for Sun on 27-10-1942 is Jup-Rahu-Mer- Mer

> > > > > The Sun position in p.charts is Jup-Rahu-Mer-

> > Mer

> > > > >

> > > > > The DBAS for Mars on 27-10-1942 is Mer-Rahu-Jup- Mer

> > > > > The Mars position in p.charts is Mer-Rahu-Jup-

> > Mer

> > > > >

> > > > > Hence the progression chart is correct.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please tell me how you arrived the ayanamsa value 23.26.59.

> > > > > In the software I am using has the facility to see the DBAS for

> > all

> > > > the planets and Ascendant with a clik of a button. The facility to

> > > > rotate the chart with or without recalculation. The facility of

> > > > transit chart and movement chart. If it is not available in

> > KPASTRO

> > > > 3.0, ask them to introduce these facilities.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dhanabalan

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Ramani <kadavasalramani@ gmail.com>

> > > > > Re: Re: Progression

> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 3:26 PM

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Mr.Dhanabalan,

> > > > >

> > > > > 2 Charts (1) Natal Birth chart & (2) Progressed chart for

> > > > > 27-10-1942 are attached with your mail to Mr.Tin Win.

> > > > > While the Ayanamsa shown for natal birth chart is correct as per

> > > > KPNA(2003), I find that that the Ayanamsa 23-26-59

> > > > > (DMS) is not tallying with the KPNA(2003), difference being more

> > > > than 28' in value. Kindly intimate which Ayanamsa is

> > > > > used for the Prog.chart for 27-10-42. It is not tallying with

> > > > > KP straight line Ayanamsa too. Pl.excuse me for troubling you.

> > > > > Astrologically yours,

> > > > > K.S.V.Ramani

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > Dhanabalan R

> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Tuesday, September 30, 2008 8:49 AM

> > > > > Re: Re: Progression

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Tin Win

> > > > > The birth chart and the progression chart for the date 27-10-

> > 1942

> > > > based on KPNA is attached. The KPNA value taken is 22.48.07. The

> > Asc.

> > > > Cp 16.00.00. All the values are matching with KPASTRO 3.0.

> > > > > But in KPASTRO, the general significator is taken.

> > > > >

> > > > > In the software I am using, the significators in the progression

> > > > chart are based on the progressed position of the planets and

> > > > Ascendant. Hence the value differ from natal chart. Late Mr.Mohan

> > > > took two years to develop this progression method. The

> > reliability of

> > > > this progression chart has to be studied in depth before put into

> > > > practice. There is different of opinion among the k.p. astrologers

> > > > about this progression method. But this method is reasonable when

> > > > compare to other progression methods.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dhanabalan

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Mon, 9/29/08, tw853 <tw853 > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > tw853 <tw853 >

> > > > > Re: Progression

> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Monday, September 29, 2008, 11:56 AM

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Ramani ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. Sorry the following significations are given from progression

> > > > chart.

> > > > >

> > > > > > 4) Ma(7,4,11); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Ra+(3,10,6,9, ....)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 5) Ve(11,5,10); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Mo(5,7)

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. They should be from natal chart as given under.

> > > > >

> > > > > 4) Ma(7,4,11,12) ; Stl Me(10,7,9): Sbl Ra+(3,10,7,9, ....) (no

> > plt

> > > > in Ra

> > > > > star)

> > > > >

> > > > > 5) Ve(11,5,6,10) ; Stl Me(10,7,9): Sbl Mo(5,8)

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks and regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > tw

> > > > > @gro ups.com, " tw853 " <tw853@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Ramani ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Native's natal chart details: Male; DOB 8-11-1930 Saturday

> > > > > > > at 10-44 AM at Royapuram, Madras (now Chennai), 13-4(N)

> > > > > > > 80-17(E). Events (known):

> > > > > > > (1) Father's demise - 27-10-1942;

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For presentation of this progression method, could you kindly

> > > > check

> > > > > > and confirm or correct whether,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1) progression chart for 27-10-1942 is Asc Cp 15:59:48 using

> > New

> > > > KPA

> > > > > > 22:48:06 ;

> > > > > > 2)> (1) Father's demise - 27-10-1942 (Ma-Ve DB by natal

> > chart);

> > > > > > 3) Ma (Mo-Me-Ra, Sgl-Stl-Sbl) ; Ve(Ma-Me-Mo) by progress

> > chart;

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 4) Ma(7,4,11); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Ra+(3,10,6,9, ....)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 5) Ve(11,5,10); Stl Me(10,6,9): Sbl Mo(5,7)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > as given by KPAstro 3.0.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks and regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > tw

> > > > > >

> > > > > > @gro ups.com, " Ramani " kadavasalramani@

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Sri Dhanabalan,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am extremely grateful to your kind offer to prepare

> > Progressed

> > > > > > chat for the events. Last time I got the chart for 17-9-2008,

> > on

> > > > > > which date there was no event and I could not analyse the

> > chart

> > > > with

> > > > > > event. I am giving 4 events first to enable you to send in one

> > > > mail.

> > > > > > Rest I will let you know later. I will also discuss with the

> > > > > > progressed chart as I understand it.

> > > > > > > Native's natal chart details: Male; DOB 8-11-1930 Saturday

> > > > > > > at 10-44 AM at Royapuram, Madras (now Chennai), 13-4(N)

> > > > > > > 80-17(E). Events (known):

> > > > > > > (1) Father's demise - 27-10-1942; (2) Mother's demise 10-1-

> > 1963;

> > > > > > (3) Marriage - 27-5-1954; (4) Birth of son: 23-9-1967

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Astrologically yours,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > K.s.V.Ramani

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > Dhanabalan R

> > > > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > > > Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:50 PM

> > > > > > > Re: Progression

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Ramani

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please give the time of events like marriage, child birth

> > > > > > date and some other events. I will send the progression charts

> > > > for 4

> > > > > > events through one mail. Then we will analyse the charts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I do not have the copy of A & A for the year 1999. You can

> > > > > > apply that principle in your chart and explain to the

> > members. I

> > > > can

> > > > > > send you any number of progression charts if you give the

> > details.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dhanabalan

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Ramani kadavasalramani@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ramani kadavasalramani@

> > > > > > > Progression

> > > > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > > > Sunday, September 21, 2008, 4:40 AM

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Sri Dhanabalan R,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This refers to my query and group discussions about

> > > > > > Progression with ref. to VMDBA. In this connection,

> > > > > > > I would like to draw your attention and also of group

> > > > > > > members, a fine article on Progression by late Sri KMS

> > > > > > > in K.P. & Astrology Annual 1999, wherein he has discussed

> > > > > > about the utility of the Progressed chart. Thanks for your

> > model

> > > > > > chart furnished to me.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanking you once again,

> > > > > > > Astrologically yours,

> > > > > > > K.S.V.Ramani

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

October 5, 2008

Dear Sri Punith Pandeyji,I am a new entrant and have been watching the conversations among the participants which is very interesting and educative to beginners like me.Your answer to Sri Tin Win's point is very informative and excellent.

It gives a very clear idea about the Swiss ephemeris and preparation of a software. Let more interesting discussions come through this forum.Astrologically yours,

D.KrishnamurthyOn Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote: