Fwd: Protest on 30 days shifting -(reposting)

[Guest guest]

parvasudhar2065 , " hari " <harimalla wrote:

 

 

Dear Shri Kaulji,

Namskar! I reread your posting to Dr. Lokraj and I really liked your statement

as follwos:

<Pl. therefore, bid adieu to your phalita jyotisha and get to grips with the

calendar reform immediately!>

I think this was a very good shot, right at the bull's eye. Dr. Lok Raj Poudel

is an astrolgoer doctorate, who would oppose calendar reform at any cost.

Thank you and regards,

Hari Malla

 

HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote:

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> <HinduCalendar/message/5357> >

Dear Dr. Lokraj Poundelji,

>

> Namaskar and Welcome to HinduCalendar forum.

>

>

>

> Your mail to me as Owner of HinduCalendar forum regarding your protest

> against shifting the solar months back by one month in Nepal has already

> been forwarded to several forums and let us wait for their views.

>

>

>

> We have also a scholar Shri Harimalla from Nepal in this forum and you will

> find his views regarding calendar reform in several of his posts.

>

>

>

> I am glad to hear your views, " We have no theoretical disagreement with it;

> neither do we deny that Hindu festivals and ceremonies bear importance only

> if linked to their respective seasons. "

>

>

>

> As far as my personal views regarding the calendar reform go, they are quite

> similar to yours! There is a lot of material available in this forum by way

> of mutual correspondence and even cross-postings from other forums about

> streamlining the Hindu calendar. Pl. go through the same. Pl. also go

> through various papers in the files section, especially Koshur6.doc,

> Rotary.doc, BVB6.doc and 1999b.doc etc. etc.

>

>

>

> Briefly, I could summarize my views as follows:

>

> 1. There are no Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in any of the Vedas nor in

> Brahmanas etc. etc. nor have Mangal, Shani etc. planets been referred to

> there in.

>

> 2. There is no mention of any Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis nor Mangal, Shani

> etc. planets in the Rik Jyotisham, Yajur Jyotisham ---known as Vedanga

> Jyotisha by Acharya Lagadha---or even the Atharva Jyotisham---if at all that

> work can be considered as an astronomical work of the Vedic era as it talks

> of Mangal, Shani etc. planets as well. That work (Atharva-Veda Jyotisha

> a.k.a. Atma-Jyotisha) is also available in the files section, courtesy Dr. R

> N Iyengar in Hindu Civilization forum).

>

> 3. We do not find any astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya

> the mlechha that talks of calculating planetary longitudes vis-à-vis Mesha,

> Vrisha etc. rashis. And Maya has not said anywhere that he obtained that

> planetary/Rashichakra knowledge from any " Purvacharya " but has claimed to

> have obtained it directly from Surya Bhagwan and that also in the fag end of

> the last Satya-Yuga i.e. literally millions of years back! A blatant lie, as

> such! And Hindus throughout the world have been so gullible as to take that

> lie as " Mahavakya " --- gospel truth!

>

>

>

> 4. It is thus futile to talk about the Vedic rashis being so called sayana

> or so called nirayana since you cannot discuss the qualities and

> qualifications of a non-existent entity! Such gimmicks are used only in

> predictive astrology like kala-sarpa yoga/dosha by " invisible " lunar nodes,

> which are just mathematical points--- or imaginary Dreshkana and saptamasha

> and what not divisions of imaginary twelve equal divisions of Mesha etc.

> rashis and " correct phalita " through imaginary vimshotari and ashtotari and

> yogini and kalachakra and hundreds of such dashas etc. etc.! Such gimmicks,

> however, cannot work in astronomy, which demands proofs for any claims made!

>

> 5. We also do not find any shastra either advising us to consult any

> soothsayer at all! On the other hand, every shastra has advised us

> " karmanyeva adhikaraste ma phaleshu kadachana " . Predictive gimmicks, as

> such, are against the letter and spirit of the Vedas and other shastras.

>

> 6. The Vedic year is a seasonal one, and being bereft of any rashis, Vedic

> months like Madhu, Madhava etc. are seasonal and as such, are not subject to

> the effects of precession of equinoxes at all.

>

> 7. Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis, therefore, are a direct import from Babylonia

> via the Greeks and all the sidhantas, right from the Surya Sidhanta of Maya

> the mlechha to the last sidhanta of Bhaskara-II viz. the Sidhanta Shiromani

> have invariably talked about Makara Sankranti being another name of

> Uttarayana and Karkata Sankranti being another name of Dakshinayana and so

> on. As I have gone through almost all the sidhantas, I can assure you that

> none of the sidhanta-kars had any idea about the phenomenon of precession!

>

>

>

> On a discordant note, however, you have said, " Considering the far-reaching

> consequences of the decision, we have formed a protest committee, and

> declared a set of peaceful protest programs with full involvement of

> astrological and religious organizations such as South-Asian

> Astro-Federation Kathmandu, Nepal, Nepal Jyotish Parishad etc. "

>

>

> The nirayana versus sayana mess that has derailed the Hindu calendar is

> actually a creation of Hindu jyotishis (who call themselves Vedic

> astrologers (sic!) these days! It is actually the difference of the

> calculated longitudes of the Surya Sidhanta vis-à-vis the actual phenomena

> of Winter Solstice etc. that is known as Ayanamsha! For example, the Surya

> Sidhanta says categorically, " Bhanor Makara Sankranteh shanmanasa

> Uttarayana, Karkyades tathaiva syat shanmasa dakshinayanam " i.e. " The six

> months of Uttarayana start with the ingress of the sun into Makara Rashi and

> the six months of Dakshinayana start with its ingress into Karkata rashi "

> but when it comes to its calculation, there is a difference of about 24

> days/degrees between the actual Uttarayana-cum-Makar Sankranti and the Surya

> Sidhanta calculated Makar Sankranti as on date!

>

>

>

> And that is why we are having all the ayanamshas circumnavigating around 24

> degrees these days---whether it is Chitra-Lahiri (which should actually be

> 204 degrees!) or Ramana or Chandra Hari (which should actually be about 270

> degrees!) and so on!

>

>

>

> Ayanamsha has, therefore, absolutely nothing to do with precession, since

> the duration of the sidhantic year is neither sidereal nor tropical but more

> by eight palas (about 3.2 minutes) than even that of the sidereal year!

> Hence, no ayanamsha fits into any processional equivalent at any point of

> time, in spite of Herculean efforts by trillions of " Vedic astrologers " over

> the last several centuries!

>

>

>

> However, all the Puranas like Bhagavata, Shiva, Linga, Devi etc. etc. also

> talk of the same phenomena as the sidhantas i.e. " Makar Sankranti is another

> name of Uttarayana and Karkata Sankranti another name of Dakshinayana " and

> so on. (Pl. see 1999b.doc). As such, the Pauranic rahis are an after

> thought and a development of post-Surya-Sidhanta era! This is evident from

> Narada Purana, which has lifted without any compunction three interpolated

> ayanamsha related shlokas " Trimshat kritva yuge bhanam, ... " from the Surya

> Sidhanta for calculating ayanamsha. They are thus a " double whammy " i.e.

> not only are those ayanamsha shlokas of the SS an interpolation in

> themselves but then they have been copied as it is to the Narada Purana,

> which is supposed to be a " bible " of Nirayana Jyotishis! And Narada Purana

> is also supposed to have been revealed by Narada Rishi, the son of Brahmaji!

> It appears these fake Naradas galore have also followed in the footsteps of

> Maya the mlechha!

>

>

>

> What is all the more pathetic is that these very three shlokas have been

> interpreted in a shameless and brazen manner by the Gita Press (Hindi)

> translator to make the Surya Sidhanta Ayanamsha tally exactly with Lahiri

> Ayanamsha---when actually the Surya Sidhanta ayanamsha is +24 degrees these

> days (as against -24 degrees of Lahiri Ayanamsha) i.e. if you want to find

> the so called Sayana longitudes from the Surya Sidhanta calculated

> longitudes, you have to subtract 24 degrees from the same! And that is

> sheer madness, and proof of the point that the jyotishis who have made those

> interpolations were actually illiterate persons of the worst kind, who did

> not know even ABC of astronomy, either sidhantic or otherwise!

>

>

>

> Similarly, the Vishundharmotara Purana has lifted the Rashi-chakra details

> of Brahmasphuta Sidhanta without any acknowledgement, and called it a

> revelation by Pitamaha Brhama!

>

>

>

> We can therefore safely say that the Mesha etc. rashis in Puranas are a post

> Surya Sidhanta interpolation!

>

>

>

> Then again, the million dollar question is that none of the sidhantas right

> from the Surya Sidhanta to Sidhanta Shiromani and the latest fads like

> Grahalaghava or Makaranda etc. were giving any correct fundamental

> arguments. This will be evident from Vishnu.exe program in the files

> section.

>

> Obviously, the panchangas prepared from all those sidhantas over the last

> two thousand years were anything but correct! And the janmapatris prepared

> from those panchangas were thus absolutely meaningless and inaccurate in

> every sense of the word! How then could our ancestors have made any correct

> predictions from those absolutely incorrect data, can be anybody's guess!

>

>

>

> As such, we have been living in a fool's paradise that we have been making

> correct predictions as per hundreds of so called nirayana rashi-chakras or

> even sayana ones! And the earlier we come out of it the better!

>

>

>

> Thus if we really want to streamline our calendars in accordance with the

> Vedas and Puranas, the earlier we come out of the stupor of Mesha, Vrisha

> etc. rashsis the better! If at all it is a necessary evil to have rashis

> included in the calendar, the only alternative is that we have to include

> the so called sayana Rashis, since they are the ones found in the Puranas

> and sidhantas (and not in the Vedas or the VJ etc.) but we have to

> simultaneously de-link Ashvini, Bharni etc. nakshatras from the same.

>

>

>

> That is the only and only way to streamline the Hindu calendar as per the

> Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha and even Puranas.

>

>

>

> Regarding your views, " We assume a number of such discordance and confusion

> related to common belief, culture and customs. Playing with the deep-rooted

> faith of people is always disastrous. " , you will recall that when Pope

> Gregory XIII " removed " ten days from the month of October 1582 of Julian

> calendar, and made October 16 instead of October 6 follow/succeed October 5,

> people cried bitterly and started looking for the " lost ten days on the

> streets " . If, therefore, some jyotishis " weep " for the " lost 24 days " by

> bringing the Hindu calendar in alignment with the Vedic lore, there is no

> harm in that. These jyotishis will ultimately resign to the situation and

> start " making correct predictions " from yet another non-existent i.e.

> " sayana Rashichakra " as they have been doing till date from nirayana

> rashichakras---hundreds of them! In fact, that is what quite a few

> " calendar reformists " and " tapasvinis " and " yogis " have already started

> doing, making " correct birth charts from Sayana Rashis on the plea of having

> visualized them through their yogic power in the Vedas " . Such fads also will

> be evident from the correspondence on the forum!

>

>

>

> Besides, we have already been shedding lots and lots of tears for

> non-existent issues like sayana and nirayana rashis and kalasarpa yogas etc.

> etc. It is high time that we wipe those tears now and face the situation

> boldly.

>

>

>

> You have also said, " Our first concern is that this is not the right time

> for the decision. If the precession of the equinoxes were 30 degree, it

> would be the right time for readjusting the festivals to their respective

> seasons although such readjustment is required every 2150 years. It would be

> perfectly rational, in a sense, and would cause little or no confusion if

> implemented simultaneously in both Nepal and India. "

>

> Calendar reform has actually been going on in India over the last about two

> hundred years! This is evident from Bhatariya Jyotisha Shastra by S. B.

> Dikshit! There was also a full fledged calendar reform committee by the GOI

> in 1955. However, thanks to nirayana-walas, all the efforts of all the

> committees have been saboaged by them and we are always back to square one

> i.e. Surya-sidhanta Rashichakra in the garb or Grahalaghava and then Lahiri

> and so on! (Pl. see PAC3.doc in files section).

>

>

>

> I am, therefore, really glad that at least Nepal has set the ball rolling

> about aligning the Hindu months to seasons! Regarding " implementing the new

> calendar simultaneously in India and Nepal " , India is the largest democracy

> in the world! That is why the GOI goes by vote bank and at least ninety

> percent Hindus in India being nirayana-walas, the GOI will not touch

> calendar re-orientation with a barge pole! Any reforms that it does are and

> will continue to be just cosmetic touches and will come back to " almighty "

> Lahiri Rashis! (Pl. see Ramanji.doc, BVB5.doc etc. indicating as to how I

> have come against a wall in spite of my representations to a

> scientist-Rashtrapati like Dr. Kalam., apart from " Hindu saviors " viz. the

> savants in the BJP!)

>

> I had sent representations to stalwarts like Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi, a

> Professor of Physics in Allahabad University and also a great scholar of the

> Hindu shastras! He was at the helm of affairs as Union Minister of Human

> Resources Development, but being more of a " Vedic astrologer " than a

> scientist or a scholar of dharmashastra, he did not take any action on those

> representations!

>

> On the other hand, he got " Vedic astrology " (read nirayana rashichakra!)

> okayed as an elective subject by the UGC, and because of his fatal

> infatuation with " Vedic astrology " he not only lost his Allahabad seat as a

> MP himself but the NDA was sent into wilderness instead of " India

> Shining " ---thanks to their faith in " Vedic astrology " than in statecraft!

>

>

>

> You cannot expect any support from any Acharya or any " his holiness of the

> art of one thing or the other " since they are more interested in putting

> their stamps of approval on the birth certificates of Bhagwan Ram as January

> 10, 5114 BCE than going by the shastras for calendar reform! (Pl. see

> Shankar1.doc)

>

>

>

> That is why I keep on repeating, " We do not need enemies to ruin our dharma

> so long as we have friendly " Vedic astrologers " to guide us about the dates

> of our fasts, fairs and muhurtas " .

>

>

>

> It is as such high time that common men like you and me revolt against such

> atrocities in the name of Vedic astrology and strengthen the hands of any

> such authority that is interested in saving the Hindu dharma by streamlining

> the Hindu calendar as per the Vedic lore. Shubhasya sheegram!

>

> You must be aware of the famous Hindi saying, " kaal kare so aaj kar, aaj

> kare so ab, pal main parlay hoyegee, bahuri karega kab " i.e. " What you want

> to do tomorrow, finish that job today; and what you want to accomplish

> today, achieve that right now! It can be a doomsday in a moment, and so

> when do you expect to do your job if you go on postponing it " .

>

>

>

> Pl. therefore, bid adieu to your phalita jyotisha and get to grips with the

> calendar reform immediately!

>

>

>

> Regarding your view, " Maha Shivaratri, for example, is a common festival

> observed by millions of pilgrims from India to Nepal and vice versa. How

> chaotic it will be if this festival is observed in Nepal one month prior to

> India! " there are several posts in this forum wherein I have proved it

> beyond all the reasonable and even unreasonable doubts that Maha-Shivaratri

> was actually on January 24 instead of February 23. I am, as such, really

> glad if Nepal has already started celebrating Mahashivaratri on correct

> days! Pl. do not scuttle such efforts!

>

> Pl. also see my posts regarding Vasanti Navratras/Gudi-Padva which starts

> actually, as per all the shastras, from Thursday, February 26, 2009 instead

> of from March 27! Pl. celebrate the real Navratras instead of " almighty "

> Lahiri Navratrs just to " wipe the tears of false Messiahs " .

>

> With best regards,

>

> A K Kaul

>

>

>

>

>

---------- Forwarded message ----------

> lokrajpoudel <

> <HinduCalendar/post?postID=e1I16cZkERV8UyImuGe

> SyflAS_1aUVBNJ_3m_NUbVZkAeb4EVYzgsyL_M9WX5zkYb0-kzvj5EY9nEniS>

> lokrajpoudel@>

> Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 4:25 PM

> Problems on 30 days shifting

> To:

> <HinduCalendar/post?postID=_MmTsvkUE-q0Jlcvx5E

> dM3cLEErMeakhXHmPaQArlVtpTHO3nDNcB9_ePrHLEZH1fe1q5d00DhYErRleO_kXmfRQhiE5V6U

> Dbg> HinduCalendar-owner

>

>

>

>

> Government of Nepal has recently directed Nepal Panchanga

> Nirnayak Committee to produce panchangas( calendars) for the Vikram's years

> 2066 and 2067, by excluding the solar month chaitra from 2066, and

> validating the adhika masa, which occurs in Baishakh of 2067 as a regular

> lunar month. Chaitra excluded, the Vikram's year 2066 will consist of only

> eleven months. The logic behind this decision is precession of the

> equinoxes, due to which the six seasons have moved back by 24 days.

> According to the sayana system, this retrogression of seasons is

> theoretically unquestionable although it tends to dishevel astrological

> canons of interpretation and system of belief. We have no theoretical

> disagreement with it; neither do we deny that Hindu festivals and ceremonies

> bear importance only if linked to their respective seasons. However we have

> considered it urgent to raise some concerns.

> First, if the seasons have drifted back by 24 days from their

> original places, why do we need to move them one month backwards in order

> for adjustment? Why not just 24 days?

> Our first concern is that this is not the right time for the

> decision. If the precession of the equinoxes were 30 degree, it would be the

> right time for readjusting the festivals to their respective seasons

> although such readjustment is required every 2150 years. It would be

> perfectly rational, in a sense, and would cause little or no confusion if

> implemented simultaneously in both Nepal and India.

> Our second concern is that the decision is bound to shake religious

> faith of the people in both India and Nepal, which are religiously

> inseparable. Maha Shivaratri, for example, is a common festival observed by

> millions of pilgrims from India to Nepal and vice versa. How chaotic it will

> be if this festival is observed in Nepal one month prior to India! The same

> is true with Bibaha Panchami, the wedding ceremony between Shree Ram from

> Ayodhya and Sita awaiting Him in Janakpur. This festival is most popularly

> celebrated in Janakpurdham. With the decision implemented, when the groom

> Shree Ram arrives in Janakpur, the wedding will have been over!

> These are only a few examples. We assume a number of such discordance

> and confusion related to common belief, culture and customs. Playing with

> the deep-rooted faith of people is always disastrous. It must be very

> sensibly and sensitively handled.

> Therefore we strongly object to this decision of Nepal Government,

> and seriously request that it be postponed for now. If it is to be

> implemented, it should implemented simultaneously in at least India and

> Nepal. Considering the far-reaching consequences of the decision, we have

> formed a protest committee, and declared a set of peaceful protest programs

> with full involvement of astrological and religious organizations such as

> South-Asian Astro-Federation Kathmandu, Nepal, Nepal Jyotish Parishad etc.

> We would like to request earnestly for support and suggestion from you all,

> to create pressure on Nepal Government to withdraw this reckless decision-

> the decision which is too hurried and short-sighted to assess the inevitable

> upheaval in religious faith of the people.

>

> Please write to us at the following address; we will greatly value your

> opinions and suggestion.

>

> E-mail Address:-

>

> <HinduCalendar/post?postID=Alvh6efYyDdgUMlYZCi

> NSSh5Tq6Nlr7rDlmxmif85mxALum3-ZjR6N9XxbQEI525glkeE8AUOsH6G5uZ4s0mm7g>

> lokrajpoudel@

> <HinduCalendar/post?postID=tnCZ3uGoGbzFNecpW0J

> TjZUBQAgfkC-9OvMMQ3VtJDCLzQDYllhWiNtp5AwLHnHXpcrIZEgnSIzt83L4ZpmS8d1eLw>

> lokrajpoudel@

>

> Thank you

> Cordially

>

> ………………………

> Dr. Lok Raj Poudel

> Coordinator –Anti-eleven-month-year Protest Committee, 2065 BS

> Chairman of the Presidium – Astro-Council,Nepal(Nepal Jyotish Parishad)

> Panchangakar – AakashDarshan Panchanga

>

>

Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:19 am

>

>

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> Dear Dr. Lokraj Poundelji, Namaskar and Welcome to HinduCalendar forum. Your

> mail to me as Owner of HinduCalendar forum regarding your protest against

> shifting...

>

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--- End forwarded message ---

[Guest guest]

Shri Hari Malla ji,

 

Jai Shri Ram!

 

< Namskar! I reread your posting to Dr. Lokraj and I really liked your

statement as follwos " Pl. therefore, bid adieu to your phalita jyotisha

and get to grips with the calendar reform immediately! " >

 

But you want to derail the calendar reform by reverting to the endless

discussion of sayana versus nirayana rashis, which are actually a

necessary evil for only phalita jyotisha and have nothing to do with the

real Vedic calendar!

 

< I think this was a very good shot, right at the bull's eye. Dr. Lok

Raj Poudel is an astrolgoer doctorate, who would oppose calendar reform

at any cost.>

 

I find you more vociferous than any astrologer for advocating uselss and

baseless Mesha, Vrisha etc. twelve equal divisions, which you call

rashis, even to get merged in Parabrahnman!

 

Why these double standards?

 

Jai Shri Ram!

 

A K Kaul , " hari " <harimalla

wrote:

>

> parvasudhar2065 , " hari " harimalla@ wrote:

>

>

> Dear Shri Kaulji,

> Namskar! I reread your posting to Dr. Lokraj and I really liked your

statement as follwos:

> <Pl. therefore, bid adieu to your phalita jyotisha and get to grips

with the calendar reform immediately!>

> I think this was a very good shot, right at the bull's eye. Dr. Lok

Raj Poudel is an astrolgoer doctorate, who would oppose calendar reform

at any cost.

> Thank you and regards,

> Hari Malla

>

> HinduCalendar , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > · Hi,

> >

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> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Dr. Lokraj Poundelji,

> >

> > Namaskar and Welcome to HinduCalendar forum.

> >

> >

> >

> > Your mail to me as Owner of HinduCalendar forum regarding your

protest

> > against shifting the solar months back by one month in Nepal has

already

> > been forwarded to several forums and let us wait for their views.

> >

> >

> >

> > We have also a scholar Shri Harimalla from Nepal in this forum and

you will

> > find his views regarding calendar reform in several of his posts.

> >

> >

> >

> > I am glad to hear your views, " We have no theoretical disagreement

with it;

> > neither do we deny that Hindu festivals and ceremonies bear

importance only

> > if linked to their respective seasons. "

> >

> >

> >

> > As far as my personal views regarding the calendar reform go, they

are quite

> > similar to yours! There is a lot of material available in this forum

by way

> > of mutual correspondence and even cross-postings from other forums

about

> > streamlining the Hindu calendar. Pl. go through the same. Pl. also

go

> > through various papers in the files section, especially Koshur6.doc,

> > Rotary.doc, BVB6.doc and 1999b.doc etc. etc.

> >

> >

> >

> > Briefly, I could summarize my views as follows:

> >

> > 1. There are no Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in any of the Vedas nor in

> > Brahmanas etc. etc. nor have Mangal, Shani etc. planets been

referred to

> > there in.

> >

> > 2. There is no mention of any Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis nor Mangal,

Shani

> > etc. planets in the Rik Jyotisham, Yajur Jyotisham ---known as

Vedanga

> > Jyotisha by Acharya Lagadha---or even the Atharva Jyotisham---if at

all that

> > work can be considered as an astronomical work of the Vedic era as

it talks

> > of Mangal, Shani etc. planets as well. That work (Atharva-Veda

Jyotisha

> > a.k.a. Atma-Jyotisha) is also available in the files section,

courtesy Dr. R

> > N Iyengar in Hindu Civilization forum).

> >

> > 3. We do not find any astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta

of Maya

> > the mlechha that talks of calculating planetary longitudes

vis-à-vis Mesha,

> > Vrisha etc. rashis. And Maya has not said anywhere that he obtained

that

> > planetary/Rashichakra knowledge from any " Purvacharya " but has

claimed to

> > have obtained it directly from Surya Bhagwan and that also in the

fag end of

> > the last Satya-Yuga i.e. literally millions of years back! A blatant

lie, as

> > such! And Hindus throughout the world have been so gullible as to

take that

> > lie as " Mahavakya " --- gospel truth!

> >

> >

> >

> > 4. It is thus futile to talk about the Vedic rashis being so called

sayana

> > or so called nirayana since you cannot discuss the qualities and

> > qualifications of a non-existent entity! Such gimmicks are used only

in

> > predictive astrology like kala-sarpa yoga/dosha by " invisible " lunar

nodes,

> > which are just mathematical points--- or imaginary Dreshkana and

saptamasha

> > and what not divisions of imaginary twelve equal divisions of Mesha

etc.

> > rashis and " correct phalita " through imaginary vimshotari and

ashtotari and

> > yogini and kalachakra and hundreds of such dashas etc. etc.! Such

gimmicks,

> > however, cannot work in astronomy, which demands proofs for any

claims made!

> >

> > 5. We also do not find any shastra either advising us to consult any

> > soothsayer at all! On the other hand, every shastra has advised us

> > " karmanyeva adhikaraste ma phaleshu kadachana " . Predictive gimmicks,

as

> > such, are against the letter and spirit of the Vedas and other

shastras.

> >

> > 6. The Vedic year is a seasonal one, and being bereft of any rashis,

Vedic

> > months like Madhu, Madhava etc. are seasonal and as such, are not

subject to

> > the effects of precession of equinoxes at all.

> >

> > 7. Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis, therefore, are a direct import from

Babylonia

> > via the Greeks and all the sidhantas, right from the Surya Sidhanta

of Maya

> > the mlechha to the last sidhanta of Bhaskara-II viz. the Sidhanta

Shiromani

> > have invariably talked about Makara Sankranti being another name of

> > Uttarayana and Karkata Sankranti being another name of Dakshinayana

and so

> > on. As I have gone through almost all the sidhantas, I can assure

you that

> > none of the sidhanta-kars had any idea about the phenomenon of

precession!

> >

> >

> >

> > On a discordant note, however, you have said, " Considering the

far-reaching

> > consequences of the decision, we have formed a protest committee,

and

> > declared a set of peaceful protest programs with full involvement of

> > astrological and religious organizations such as South-Asian

> > Astro-Federation Kathmandu, Nepal, Nepal Jyotish Parishad etc. "

> >

> >

> > The nirayana versus sayana mess that has derailed the Hindu calendar

is

> > actually a creation of Hindu jyotishis (who call themselves Vedic

> > astrologers (sic!) these days! It is actually the difference of the

> > calculated longitudes of the Surya Sidhanta vis-à-vis the actual

phenomena

> > of Winter Solstice etc. that is known as Ayanamsha! For example, the

Surya

> > Sidhanta says categorically, " Bhanor Makara Sankranteh shanmanasa

> > Uttarayana, Karkyades tathaiva syat shanmasa dakshinayanam " i.e.

" The six

> > months of Uttarayana start with the ingress of the sun into Makara

Rashi and

> > the six months of Dakshinayana start with its ingress into Karkata

rashi "

> > but when it comes to its calculation, there is a difference of about

24

> > days/degrees between the actual Uttarayana-cum-Makar Sankranti and

the Surya

> > Sidhanta calculated Makar Sankranti as on date!

> >

> >

> >

> > And that is why we are having all the ayanamshas circumnavigating

around 24

> > degrees these days---whether it is Chitra-Lahiri (which should

actually be

> > 204 degrees!) or Ramana or Chandra Hari (which should actually be

about 270

> > degrees!) and so on!

> >

> >

> >

> > Ayanamsha has, therefore, absolutely nothing to do with precession,

since

> > the duration of the sidhantic year is neither sidereal nor tropical

but more

> > by eight palas (about 3.2 minutes) than even that of the sidereal

year!

> > Hence, no ayanamsha fits into any processional equivalent at any

point of

> > time, in spite of Herculean efforts by trillions of " Vedic

astrologers " over

> > the last several centuries!

> >

> >

> >

> > However, all the Puranas like Bhagavata, Shiva, Linga, Devi etc.

etc. also

> > talk of the same phenomena as the sidhantas i.e. " Makar Sankranti is

another

> > name of Uttarayana and Karkata Sankranti another name of

Dakshinayana " and

> > so on. (Pl. see 1999b.doc). As such, the Pauranic rahis are an after

> > thought and a development of post-Surya-Sidhanta era! This is

evident from

> > Narada Purana, which has lifted without any compunction three

interpolated

> > ayanamsha related shlokas " Trimshat kritva yuge bhanam, ... " from

the Surya

> > Sidhanta for calculating ayanamsha. They are thus a " double whammy "

i.e.

> > not only are those ayanamsha shlokas of the SS an interpolation in

> > themselves but then they have been copied as it is to the Narada

Purana,

> > which is supposed to be a " bible " of Nirayana Jyotishis! And Narada

Purana

> > is also supposed to have been revealed by Narada Rishi, the son of

Brahmaji!

> > It appears these fake Naradas galore have also followed in the

footsteps of

> > Maya the mlechha!

> >

> >

> >

> > What is all the more pathetic is that these very three shlokas have

been

> > interpreted in a shameless and brazen manner by the Gita Press

(Hindi)

> > translator to make the Surya Sidhanta Ayanamsha tally exactly with

Lahiri

> > Ayanamsha---when actually the Surya Sidhanta ayanamsha is +24

degrees these

> > days (as against -24 degrees of Lahiri Ayanamsha) i.e. if you want

to find

> > the so called Sayana longitudes from the Surya Sidhanta calculated

> > longitudes, you have to subtract 24 degrees from the same! And that

is

> > sheer madness, and proof of the point that the jyotishis who have

made those

> > interpolations were actually illiterate persons of the worst kind,

who did

> > not know even ABC of astronomy, either sidhantic or otherwise!

> >

> >

> >

> > Similarly, the Vishundharmotara Purana has lifted the Rashi-chakra

details

> > of Brahmasphuta Sidhanta without any acknowledgement, and called it

a

> > revelation by Pitamaha Brhama!

> >

> >

> >

> > We can therefore safely say that the Mesha etc. rashis in Puranas

are a post

> > Surya Sidhanta interpolation!

> >

> >

> >

> > Then again, the million dollar question is that none of the

sidhantas right

> > from the Surya Sidhanta to Sidhanta Shiromani and the latest fads

like

> > Grahalaghava or Makaranda etc. were giving any correct fundamental

> > arguments. This will be evident from Vishnu.exe program in the files

> > section.

> >

> > Obviously, the panchangas prepared from all those sidhantas over the

last

> > two thousand years were anything but correct! And the janmapatris

prepared

> > from those panchangas were thus absolutely meaningless and

inaccurate in

> > every sense of the word! How then could our ancestors have made any

correct

> > predictions from those absolutely incorrect data, can be anybody's

guess!

> >

> >

> >

> > As such, we have been living in a fool's paradise that we have been

making

> > correct predictions as per hundreds of so called nirayana

rashi-chakras or

> > even sayana ones! And the earlier we come out of it the better!

> >

> >

> >

> > Thus if we really want to streamline our calendars in accordance

with the

> > Vedas and Puranas, the earlier we come out of the stupor of Mesha,

Vrisha

> > etc. rashsis the better! If at all it is a necessary evil to have

rashis

> > included in the calendar, the only alternative is that we have to

include

> > the so called sayana Rashis, since they are the ones found in the

Puranas

> > and sidhantas (and not in the Vedas or the VJ etc.) but we have to

> > simultaneously de-link Ashvini, Bharni etc. nakshatras from the

same.

> >

> >

> >

> > That is the only and only way to streamline the Hindu calendar as

per the

> > Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha and even Puranas.

> >

> >

> >

> > Regarding your views, " We assume a number of such discordance and

confusion

> > related to common belief, culture and customs. Playing with the

deep-rooted

> > faith of people is always disastrous. " , you will recall that when

Pope

> > Gregory XIII " removed " ten days from the month of October 1582 of

Julian

> > calendar, and made October 16 instead of October 6 follow/succeed

October 5,

> > people cried bitterly and started looking for the " lost ten days on

the

> > streets " . If, therefore, some jyotishis " weep " for the " lost 24

days " by

> > bringing the Hindu calendar in alignment with the Vedic lore, there

is no

> > harm in that. These jyotishis will ultimately resign to the

situation and

> > start " making correct predictions " from yet another non-existent

i.e.

> > " sayana Rashichakra " as they have been doing till date from nirayana

> > rashichakras---hundreds of them! In fact, that is what quite a few

> > " calendar reformists " and " tapasvinis " and " yogis " have already

started

> > doing, making " correct birth charts from Sayana Rashis on the plea

of having

> > visualized them through their yogic power in the Vedas " . Such fads

also will

> > be evident from the correspondence on the forum!

> >

> >

> >

> > Besides, we have already been shedding lots and lots of tears for

> > non-existent issues like sayana and nirayana rashis and kalasarpa

yogas etc.

> > etc. It is high time that we wipe those tears now and face the

situation

> > boldly.

> >

> >

> >

> > You have also said, " Our first concern is that this is not the right

time

> > for the decision. If the precession of the equinoxes were 30 degree,

it

> > would be the right time for readjusting the festivals to their

respective

> > seasons although such readjustment is required every 2150 years. It

would be

> > perfectly rational, in a sense, and would cause little or no

confusion if

> > implemented simultaneously in both Nepal and India. "

> >

> > Calendar reform has actually been going on in India over the last

about two

> > hundred years! This is evident from Bhatariya Jyotisha Shastra by S.

B.

> > Dikshit! There was also a full fledged calendar reform committee by

the GOI

> > in 1955. However, thanks to nirayana-walas, all the efforts of all

the

> > committees have been saboaged by them and we are always back to

square one

> > i.e. Surya-sidhanta Rashichakra in the garb or Grahalaghava and then

Lahiri

> > and so on! (Pl. see PAC3.doc in files section).

> >

> >

> >

> > I am, therefore, really glad that at least Nepal has set the ball

rolling

> > about aligning the Hindu months to seasons! Regarding " implementing

the new

> > calendar simultaneously in India and Nepal " , India is the largest

democracy

> > in the world! That is why the GOI goes by vote bank and at least

ninety

> > percent Hindus in India being nirayana-walas, the GOI will not touch

> > calendar re-orientation with a barge pole! Any reforms that it does

are and

> > will continue to be just cosmetic touches and will come back to

" almighty "

> > Lahiri Rashis! (Pl. see Ramanji.doc, BVB5.doc etc. indicating as to

how I

> > have come against a wall in spite of my representations to a

> > scientist-Rashtrapati like Dr. Kalam., apart from " Hindu saviors "

viz. the

> > savants in the BJP!)

> >

> > I had sent representations to stalwarts like Dr. Murli Manohar

Joshi, a

> > Professor of Physics in Allahabad University and also a great

scholar of the

> > Hindu shastras! He was at the helm of affairs as Union Minister of

Human

> > Resources Development, but being more of a " Vedic astrologer " than a

> > scientist or a scholar of dharmashastra, he did not take any action

on those

> > representations!

> >

> > On the other hand, he got " Vedic astrology " (read nirayana

rashichakra!)

> > okayed as an elective subject by the UGC, and because of his fatal

> > infatuation with " Vedic astrology " he not only lost his Allahabad

seat as a

> > MP himself but the NDA was sent into wilderness instead of " India

> > Shining " ---thanks to their faith in " Vedic astrology " than in

statecraft!

> >

> >

> >

> > You cannot expect any support from any Acharya or any " his holiness

of the

> > art of one thing or the other " since they are more interested in

putting

> > their stamps of approval on the birth certificates of Bhagwan Ram as

January

> > 10, 5114 BCE than going by the shastras for calendar reform! (Pl.

see

> > Shankar1.doc)

> >

> >

> >

> > That is why I keep on repeating, " We do not need enemies to ruin our

dharma

> > so long as we have friendly " Vedic astrologers " to guide us about

the dates

> > of our fasts, fairs and muhurtas " .

> >

> >

> >

> > It is as such high time that common men like you and me revolt

against such

> > atrocities in the name of Vedic astrology and strengthen the hands

of any

> > such authority that is interested in saving the Hindu dharma by

streamlining

> > the Hindu calendar as per the Vedic lore. Shubhasya sheegram!

> >

> > You must be aware of the famous Hindi saying, " kaal kare so aaj kar,

aaj

> > kare so ab, pal main parlay hoyegee, bahuri karega kab " i.e. " What

you want

> > to do tomorrow, finish that job today; and what you want to

accomplish

> > today, achieve that right now! It can be a doomsday in a moment, and

so

> > when do you expect to do your job if you go on postponing it " .

> >

> >

> >

> > Pl. therefore, bid adieu to your phalita jyotisha and get to grips

with the

> > calendar reform immediately!

> >

> >

> >

> > Regarding your view, " Maha Shivaratri, for example, is a common

festival

> > observed by millions of pilgrims from India to Nepal and vice versa.

How

> > chaotic it will be if this festival is observed in Nepal one month

prior to

> > India! " there are several posts in this forum wherein I have proved

it

> > beyond all the reasonable and even unreasonable doubts that

Maha-Shivaratri

> > was actually on January 24 instead of February 23. I am, as such,

really

> > glad if Nepal has already started celebrating Mahashivaratri on

correct

> > days! Pl. do not scuttle such efforts!

> >

> > Pl. also see my posts regarding Vasanti Navratras/Gudi-Padva which

starts

> > actually, as per all the shastras, from Thursday, February 26, 2009

instead

> > of from March 27! Pl. celebrate the real Navratras instead of

" almighty "

> > Lahiri Navratrs just to " wipe the tears of false Messiahs " .

> >

> > With best regards,

> >

> > A K Kaul

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> > lokrajpoudel <

> >

<HinduCalendar/post?postID=e1I16cZkERV8UyI\

muGe

> > SyflAS_1aUVBNJ_3m_NUbVZkAeb4EVYzgsyL_M9WX5zkYb0-kzvj5EY9nEniS>

> > lokrajpoudel@>

> > Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 4:25 PM

> > Problems on 30 days shifting

> > To:

> >

<HinduCalendar/post?postID=_MmTsvkUE-q0Jlc\

vx5E

> >

dM3cLEErMeakhXHmPaQArlVtpTHO3nDNcB9_ePrHLEZH1fe1q5d00DhYErRleO_kXmfRQhiE\

5V6U

> > Dbg> HinduCalendar-owner

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Government of Nepal has recently directed Nepal Panchanga

> > Nirnayak Committee to produce panchangas( calendars) for the

Vikram's years

> > 2066 and 2067, by excluding the solar month chaitra from 2066, and

> > validating the adhika masa, which occurs in Baishakh of 2067 as a

regular

> > lunar month. Chaitra excluded, the Vikram's year 2066 will consist

of only

> > eleven months. The logic behind this decision is precession of the

> > equinoxes, due to which the six seasons have moved back by 24 days.

> > According to the sayana system, this retrogression of seasons is

> > theoretically unquestionable although it tends to dishevel

astrological

> > canons of interpretation and system of belief. We have no

theoretical

> > disagreement with it; neither do we deny that Hindu festivals and

ceremonies

> > bear importance only if linked to their respective seasons. However

we have

> > considered it urgent to raise some concerns.

> > First, if the seasons have drifted back by 24 days from their

> > original places, why do we need to move them one month backwards in

order

> > for adjustment? Why not just 24 days?

> > Our first concern is that this is not the right time for the

> > decision. If the precession of the equinoxes were 30 degree, it

would be the

> > right time for readjusting the festivals to their respective seasons

> > although such readjustment is required every 2150 years. It would be

> > perfectly rational, in a sense, and would cause little or no

confusion if

> > implemented simultaneously in both Nepal and India.

> > Our second concern is that the decision is bound to shake religious

> > faith of the people in both India and Nepal, which are religiously

> > inseparable. Maha Shivaratri, for example, is a common festival

observed by

> > millions of pilgrims from India to Nepal and vice versa. How chaotic

it will

> > be if this festival is observed in Nepal one month prior to India!

The same

> > is true with Bibaha Panchami, the wedding ceremony between Shree Ram

from

> > Ayodhya and Sita awaiting Him in Janakpur. This festival is most

popularly

> > celebrated in Janakpurdham. With the decision implemented, when the

groom

> > Shree Ram arrives in Janakpur, the wedding will have been over!

> > These are only a few examples. We assume a number of such

discordance

> > and confusion related to common belief, culture and customs. Playing

with

> > the deep-rooted faith of people is always disastrous. It must be

very

> > sensibly and sensitively handled.

> > Therefore we strongly object to this decision of Nepal Government,

> > and seriously request that it be postponed for now. If it is to be

> > implemented, it should implemented simultaneously in at least India

and

> > Nepal. Considering the far-reaching consequences of the decision, we

have

> > formed a protest committee, and declared a set of peaceful protest

programs

> > with full involvement of astrological and religious organizations

such as

> > South-Asian Astro-Federation Kathmandu, Nepal, Nepal Jyotish

Parishad etc.

> > We would like to request earnestly for support and suggestion from

you all,

> > to create pressure on Nepal Government to withdraw this reckless

decision-

> > the decision which is too hurried and short-sighted to assess the

inevitable

> > upheaval in religious faith of the people.

> >

> > Please write to us at the following address; we will greatly value

your

> > opinions and suggestion.

> >

> > E-mail Address:-

> >

> >

<HinduCalendar/post?postID=Alvh6efYyDdgUMl\

YZCi

> >

NSSh5Tq6Nlr7rDlmxmif85mxALum3-ZjR6N9XxbQEI525glkeE8AUOsH6G5uZ4s0mm7g>

> > lokrajpoudel@

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> > lokrajpoudel@

> >

> > Thank you

> > Cordially

> >

> > ………………………

> > Dr. Lok Raj Poudel

> > Coordinator –Anti-eleven-month-year Protest Committee, 2065 BS

> > Chairman of the Presidium – Astro-Council,Nepal(Nepal Jyotish

Parishad)

> > Panchangakar – AakashDarshan Panchanga

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:19 am

> >

> >

> >

> > <HinduCalendar/message/5356>

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> > Dear Dr. Lokraj Poundelji, Namaskar and Welcome to HinduCalendar

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> > mail to me as Owner of HinduCalendar forum regarding your protest

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> > shifting...

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