Of the Saptarishis who is Narendranath (Swami Vivekananda)

[Guest guest]

Dear Sourav,

 

Thanks for the link and I read that article.

 

It is interesting that I should see this mail from you today. Just a couple of days, I was about to sleep and just closed my eyes. I vividly saw the face of somebody who appeared like a maharshi. The face is still fresh in my memory and I never such a person in real life. He had a thin long face with Vaishnava style lines on forehead. He had a pleasant and radiant face. After that face remained in my vision for a few seconds, suddenly Swami Vivekananda's face sprang from it and the face of maharshi disappeared.

 

I have no doubt that Swami Vivekananda is a maharshi's incarnation. However, I am not sure I agree with the conclusion of the author that Narendra was an incarnation of Sage Bhrigu.

 

Instead of speculating on whether there are only 7 maharshis in Rishi Mandala or more and who those 7 maharshis are and speculating on the similarity of the so-called "sattwik" and "dynamic" aspects of Maharshi Bhrigu and Swami Vivekananda, the author could have just gone by what Swami Vivekananda himself described as being said by Ramakrishna to him.

 

If you go to the end of the article, you see that Swami Vivekananda recounts Ramakrishna telling him that he is Nara Maharshi. Narayana became Krishna and guided Nara Maharshi who was born as Arjuna. Again, Narayana became Ramakrishna and guided Nara Maharshi who was born as Narendra. The author's speculation is totally unneeded and most likely incorrect. Narendra was in all likelihood an incarnation of Nara Maharshi.

 

 

 

May Ramakrishna's light shine on us,

 

 

Narasimha

-------------------------------

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

-------------------------------

sohamsa , "Sourav Chowdhury" <souravc108> wrote:>> || Hare Rama Krishna ||> > Dear Friends and Learned Jyotishis,> Namaskar. I would like to share > this wonderful article from the R. K. Math's Vedanta Kesari magazine. > Thakur (Sri Ramakrishna) was most fond of Swami Vivekananda and > refered to him as one of the Saptarishi's whom he had brought along > for his earthly lila. This article is regarding that. Hope you enjoy > reading.> > Best wishes for new year,> > Sourav> ====================================================================> Link for the article:> http://www.sriramakrishnamath.org/magazine/vk/2005/3-3-3.asp> ====================================================================

[Guest guest]

|| Hare Rama Krishna ||

 

Dear Narasimha-ji,

 

Pranam. Thank you for writing back. Your dream

account is very interesting. The little surprise part on my side is

that I have been reading random passages from a Bengali book (please

see below) and on the same day (i.e. today) that I read about this

episode in that book, I have come across this article. And now you

are also writing about this dream !

 

I just wanted to add that, I tried not to take a position on who

Narendranath could be from this article. The reason is following:

 

The words of Thakur as used in this article seems to be a

translation of a passage in Sri Sri Ramakrishna Lila Prasanga

(Bengali) by Swami Saradananda, Swami Vivekananda's brother disciple

whom Swami-ji had himself instructed to write Thakur's biography so

that others may not speculate and adopt wrong information on

Thakur's life. The words used in this book can be exactly translated

as:

 

Sri Ramakrishna speaking, with folded hands in front of

Narendra : " I know, Prabhu, you are that ancient sage (rishi), Nara-

rupi Narayana, to remedy the sufferings of living beings (jiva) you

have again taken up a human form " . Here Nara can mean Rishi Nara (as

youhave said) or just human. In old-style Bengali, Nara is used as

justa human being or the human species, to my knowledge.

 

Hence, to me, this piece is open to interpretation. Apart from what

you have pointed out, it could also be that Thakur gave him the

status of Narayana and none less because in him he saw himself.

 

In any case, I do agree that the author sort of negated his own

hypothesis in the end by interpreting him to be Bhrigu and later

translating Thakur's words to be Rishi Nara.

 

The interesting part to me form this article is the segment

titles " Sapta-Rishis " where he (or she) tabulates the Sapta-rishi

names from various scriptural sources. Each of this list is

different from another. My knowledge is very limited as to enable me

to select the most plausible one.

 

Pranam and thanks,

 

Sourav

===================================================================

sohamsa , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@c...>

wrote:

>

> Dear Sourav,

>

> Thanks for the link and I read that article.

>

> It is interesting that I should see this mail from you today. Just

a couple of days, I was about to sleep and just closed my eyes. I

vividly saw the face of somebody who appeared like a maharshi. The

face is still fresh in my memory and I never such a person in real

life. He had a thin long face with Vaishnava style lines on

forehead. He had a pleasant and radiant face. After that face

remained in my vision for a few seconds, suddenly Swami

Vivekananda's face sprang from it and the face of maharshi

disappeared.

>

> I have no doubt that Swami Vivekananda is a maharshi's

incarnation. However, I am not sure I agree with the conclusion of

the author that Narendra was an incarnation of Sage Bhrigu.

>

> Instead of speculating on whether there are only 7 maharshis in

Rishi Mandala or more and who those 7 maharshis are and speculating

on the similarity of the so-called " sattwik " and " dynamic " aspects

of Maharshi Bhrigu and Swami Vivekananda, the author could have just

gone by what Swami Vivekananda himself described as being said by

Ramakrishna to him.

>

> If you go to the end of the article, you see that Swami

Vivekananda recounts Ramakrishna telling him that he is Nara

Maharshi. Narayana became Krishna and guided Nara Maharshi who was

born as Arjuna. Again, Narayana became Ramakrishna and guided Nara

Maharshi who was born as Narendra. The author's speculation is

totally unneeded and most likely incorrect. Narendra was in all

likelihood an incarnation of Nara Maharshi.

>

> May Ramakrishna's light shine on us,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------------

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> -------------------------------

>

> sohamsa , " Sourav Chowdhury "

<souravc108> wrote:

> >

> > || Hare Rama Krishna ||

> >

> > Dear Friends and Learned Jyotishis,

> > Namaskar. I would like to

share

> > this wonderful article from the R. K. Math's Vedanta Kesari

magazine.

> > Thakur (Sri Ramakrishna) was most fond of Swami Vivekananda and

> > refered to him as one of the Saptarishi's whom he had brought

along

> > for his earthly lila. This article is regarding that. Hope you

enjoy

> > reading.

> >

> > Best wishes for new year,

> >

> > Sourav

> >

====================================================================

> > Link for the article:

> > http://www.sriramakrishnamath.org/magazine/vk/2005/3-3-3.asp

> >

====================================================================

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sourav,

 

The two maharshis - Nara and Narayana - are both amsas of Lord Vishnu. Nara and Narayana are like mirror images and complement each other.

 

While Narayana is the divine amsa of the Lord and represents pure consciousness, Nara is the component that represents action. Nara-Narayanas together represent perfection. Nara is not any less than Narayana. Nara without Narayana and Narayana without Nara are equally incomplete. Krishna and Arjuna are said to be incarnations of Narayana and Nara respectively. Similarly, I believe that Ramakrishna and Narendra were the incarnations of Narayana and Nara respectively.

 

If you say that Narendra was Vishnu Himself and Ramakrishna saw Himself in Narendra, that is not incorrect either. It depends on how many layers of the onion of maya you choose to peel off! Of course, if you peel off ALL the layers of the onion of maya, then Narendra, Ramakrishna, you, I, the tree outside the window, the virus that is afflicting my body right now are all the same - the Supreme Brahman.

 

Yes, as you said, the author negated his own hypothesis by giving the translation of Thakur's words that were against his hypothesis.

 

May Ramakrishna's light shine on us,

 

 

Narasimha

-------------------------------

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

-------------------------------

> || Hare Rama Krishna ||> > Dear Narasimha-ji,> > Pranam. Thank you for writing back. Your dream> account is very interesting. The little surprise part on my side is> that I have been reading random passages from a Bengali book (please> see below) and on the same day (i.e. today) that I read about this> episode in that book, I have come across this article. And now you> are also writing about this dream !> > I just wanted to add that, I tried not to take a position on who> Narendranath could be from this article. The reason is following:> > The words of Thakur as used in this article seems to be a> translation of a passage in Sri Sri Ramakrishna Lila Prasanga> (Bengali) by Swami Saradananda, Swami Vivekananda's brother disciple> whom Swami-ji had himself instructed to write Thakur's biography so> that others may not speculate and adopt wrong information on> Thakur's life. The words used in this book can be exactly translated> as:> > Sri Ramakrishna speaking, with folded hands in front of> Narendra : "I know, Prabhu, you are that ancient sage (rishi), Nara-> rupi Narayana, to remedy the sufferings of living beings (jiva) you> have again taken up a human form". Here Nara can mean Rishi Nara (as > youhave said) or just human. In old-style Bengali, Nara is used as > justa human being or the human species, to my knowledge.> > Hence, to me, this piece is open to interpretation. Apart from what> you have pointed out, it could also be that Thakur gave him the> status of Narayana and none less because in him he saw himself.> > In any case, I do agree that the author sort of negated his own> hypothesis in the end by interpreting him to be Bhrigu and later> translating Thakur's words to be Rishi Nara.> > The interesting part to me form this article is the segment> titles "Sapta-Rishis" where he (or she) tabulates the Sapta-rishi> names from various scriptural sources. Each of this list is> different from another. My knowledge is very limited as to enable me> to select the most plausible one.> > Pranam and thanks,> > Sourav> ===================================================================> sohamsa , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...> > wrote:> >> > Dear Sourav,> > > > Thanks for the link and I read that article.> > > > It is interesting that I should see this mail from you today. Just > a couple of days, I was about to sleep and just closed my eyes. I > vividly saw the face of somebody who appeared like a maharshi. The > face is still fresh in my memory and I never such a person in real > life. He had a thin long face with Vaishnava style lines on > forehead. He had a pleasant and radiant face. After that face > remained in my vision for a few seconds, suddenly Swami > Vivekananda's face sprang from it and the face of maharshi > disappeared.> > > > I have no doubt that Swami Vivekananda is a maharshi's > incarnation. However, I am not sure I agree with the conclusion of > the author that Narendra was an incarnation of Sage Bhrigu.> > > > Instead of speculating on whether there are only 7 maharshis in > Rishi Mandala or more and who those 7 maharshis are and speculating > on the similarity of the so-called "sattwik" and "dynamic" aspects > of Maharshi Bhrigu and Swami Vivekananda, the author could have just > gone by what Swami Vivekananda himself described as being said by > Ramakrishna to him.> > > > If you go to the end of the article, you see that Swami > Vivekananda recounts Ramakrishna telling him that he is Nara > Maharshi. Narayana became Krishna and guided Nara Maharshi who was > born as Arjuna. Again, Narayana became Ramakrishna and guided Nara > Maharshi who was born as Narendra. The author's speculation is > totally unneeded and most likely incorrect. Narendra was in all > likelihood an incarnation of Nara Maharshi.> > > > May Ramakrishna's light shine on us, > > Narasimha> > -------------------------------> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > -------------------------------> > > > sohamsa , "Sourav Chowdhury" > <souravc108> wrote:> > >> > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> > > > > > Dear Friends and Learned Jyotishis,> > > Namaskar. I would like to > share > > > this wonderful article from the R. K. Math's Vedanta Kesari > magazine. > > > Thakur (Sri Ramakrishna) was most fond of Swami Vivekananda and > > > refered to him as one of the Saptarishi's whom he had brought > along > > > for his earthly lila. This article is regarding that. Hope you > enjoy > > > reading.> > > > > > Best wishes for new year,> > > > > > Sourav

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanjay,

 

There are accounts of saints visiting Ramakrishna and finding the marks of Vishnu's avataras on him.

 

Ramakrishna was pure consciousness. Vivekananda had doubts and needed to be woken up by Ramakrishna and then he acted to spread light. Moreover, Ramakrishna himself addressed Vivekananda as the ancient rishi Nara.

 

These are the reasons for my taking the position that Ramakrishna and Vivekananda are the avataras of rishis Narayana and Nara respectively, i.e. of Lord Vishnu Himself. Just as Arjuna fought the war after Krishna removed his confusion, Vivekananda blew the conch of sanatana dharma after Ramakrishna dispelled his confusions.

 

It is possible to use astrology to draw conclusions, but I am not sure if our astrology is ready for that.

 

 

May Ramakrishna's light shine on us,

 

 

Narasimha

-------------------------------

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

-------------------------------

> ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~> Dear Sourav> Just because Thakur saw Himself in Vivekananda and in every creature does> not mean that the creature also has the same ability or the vision of> Thakkur.> I sincerely believe that Thakkur is a Siva avatara (although others say> Kali) and that Vivekananda is a Rishi who has come with the perfect rays of> the Sun God - Savitur. If you study their charts you will appreciate my> words.> Brighu rishi is the energy of Venus while Vivekananda is the finest rays of> the Sun to re-establish dharma and self respect.> Thakkur's humility in showing the way to Vivekananda should never be> mistaken to be any weakness or any less stature - it was his greatness. He> even showed the true path to his own Guru Tota Puri.> With best wishes & warm regards,> Yours truly> Sanjay Rath> > Webpages: <http://srath.com/> http://srath.com <http://.org/>> http://.org <http://sjcerc.com/> http://sjcerc.com> Atri SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India> Phone: +91.11.25717162> -> > > _____ > > Sourav Chowdhury [souravc108] > Saturday, December 31, 2005 1:04 PM> sohamsa > Re: Of the Saptarishis who is Narendranath (Swami> Vivekananda)> > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> > Dear Narasimha-ji,> > Pranam. Thank you for writing back. Your dream> account is very interesting. The little surprise part on my side is> that I have been reading random passages from a Bengali book (please> see below) and on the same day (i.e. today) that I read about this> episode in that book, I have come across this article. And now you> are also writing about this dream !> > I just wanted to add that, I tried not to take a position on who> Narendranath could be from this article. The reason is following:> > The words of Thakur as used in this article seems to be a> translation of a passage in Sri Sri Ramakrishna Lila Prasanga> (Bengali) by Swami Saradananda, Swami Vivekananda's brother disciple> whom Swami-ji had himself instructed to write Thakur's biography so> that others may not speculate and adopt wrong information on> Thakur's life. The words used in this book can be exactly translated> as:> > Sri Ramakrishna speaking, with folded hands in front of> Narendra : "I know, Prabhu, you are that ancient sage (rishi), Nara-> rupi Narayana, to remedy the sufferings of living beings (jiva) you> have again taken up a human form". Here Nara can mean Rishi Nara (as > youhave said) or just human. In old-style Bengali, Nara is used as > justa human being or the human species, to my knowledge.> > Hence, to me, this piece is open to interpretation. Apart from what> you have pointed out, it could also be that Thakur gave him the> status of Narayana and none less because in him he saw himself.> > In any case, I do agree that the author sort of negated his own> hypothesis in the end by interpreting him to be Bhrigu and later> translating Thakur's words to be Rishi Nara.> > The interesting part to me form this article is the segment> titles "Sapta-Rishis" where he (or she) tabulates the Sapta-rishi> names from various scriptural sources. Each of this list is> different from another. My knowledge is very limited as to enable me> to select the most plausible one.> > Pranam and thanks,> > Sourav> ===================================================================> sohamsa , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...> > wrote:> >> > Dear Sourav,> > > > Thanks for the link and I read that article.> > > > It is interesting that I should see this mail from you today. Just > a couple of days, I was about to sleep and just closed my eyes. I > vividly saw the face of somebody who appeared like a maharshi. The > face is still fresh in my memory and I never such a person in real > life. He had a thin long face with Vaishnava style lines on > forehead. He had a pleasant and radiant face. After that face > remained in my vision for a few seconds, suddenly Swami > Vivekananda's face sprang from it and the face of maharshi > disappeared.> > > > I have no doubt that Swami Vivekananda is a maharshi's > incarnation. However, I am not sure I agree with the conclusion of > the author that Narendra was an incarnation of Sage Bhrigu.> > > > Instead of speculating on whether there are only 7 maharshis in > Rishi Mandala or more and who those 7 maharshis are and speculating > on the similarity of the so-called "sattwik" and "dynamic" aspects > of Maharshi Bhrigu and Swami Vivekananda, the author could have just > gone by what Swami Vivekananda himself described as being said by > Ramakrishna to him.> > > > If you go to the end of the article, you see that Swami > Vivekananda recounts Ramakrishna telling him that he is Nara > Maharshi. Narayana became Krishna and guided Nara Maharshi who was > born as Arjuna. Again, Narayana became Ramakrishna and guided Nara > Maharshi who was born as Narendra. The author's speculation is > totally unneeded and most likely incorrect. Narendra was in all > likelihood an incarnation of Nara Maharshi.> > > > May Ramakrishna's light shine on us, > > Narasimha> > -------------------------------> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > -------------------------------> > > > sohamsa , "Sourav Chowdhury" > <souravc108> wrote:> > >> > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> > > > > > Dear Friends and Learned Jyotishis,> > > Namaskar. I would like to > share > > > this wonderful article from the R. K. Math's Vedanta Kesari > magazine. > > > Thakur (Sri Ramakrishna) was most fond of Swami Vivekananda and > > > refered to him as one of the Saptarishi's whom he had brought > along > > > for his earthly lila. This article is regarding that. Hope you > enjoy > > > reading.> > > > > > Best wishes for new year,> > > > > > Sourav> > > > ====================================================================> > > Link for the article:> > > http://www.sriramakrishnamath.org/magazine/vk/2005/3-3-3.asp> > > > ====================================================================

[Guest guest]

Pranaam Sanjay,

 

> Thakkur then tells him that He is that Rama and that

> Krishna...you have interpreted this to mean Narayana.

 

Not only that. There is a legend that Vishnu appeared in a dream of his father before his birth and told him that he would be born as his son.

 

There is another legend of a saint - I forgot his name - hearing about Ramakrishna, coming to him when he was lying unconscious, finding 16 marks of a Vishnu avatara on him, declaring in ecstasy "he is Rama, he is Krishna".

 

Given that Ramakrishna himself said that Vivekananda was rishi Nara, it makes sense to think of Ramakrishna as Narayana. It is Narayana who collaborates with Nara.

 

For all these reasons, I find it appropriate to think of Ramakrishna as an avatara of Narayana maharshi, i.e. as an avatara of Vishnu, rather than Shiva.

 

BTW, there are many people who do worship a picture of Ramakrishna Paramahansa.

May Ramakrishna's light shine on us,

 

 

Narasimha

-------------------------------

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

-------------------------------

 

> ~~ om sadÄÅ›iva gurave namah ~~> Dear Narasimha> You talk of the episode when Swamiji was at the feet of Thakkur and had doubts (as usual) due to his Rahu dasa. He has also suffered very much for doubting Thakkur. Now at this stage Thakkur gets up in that weak state and tells him not to doubt - there can be nothing more foolish really. Thakkur then tells him that He is that Rama and that Krishna...you have interpreted this to mean Narayana. So be it, but I think Thakkur was saying it to remove his doubts which come from Rajas which causes this differentiation.> The birth episode of Thakkur clearly confirms without doubt that He is a Shiva avatara. Even today Thakkur is worshipped not in pictures nor in statues but in a Shiva Linga called the Baneswara Linga. It is this Shiva Linga that is placed underneath the statue for the benefit of the public, so that when they meditate on the state they are actually meditating on the real Thakkur - the Baneshwara Shiva Linga.> With best wishes & warm regards,> Yours truly> Sanjay Rath> > Webpages: <http://srath.com/> http://srath.com <http://.org/> http://.org <http://sjcerc.com/> http://sjcerc.com> Atri SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India> Phone: +91.11.25717162> -> > > _____ > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr@c...] > Saturday, December 31, 2005 11:01 PM> sohamsa > Re: Of the Saptarishis who is Narendranath (Swami Vivekananda)> > > Dear Sanjay,> > There are accounts of saints visiting Ramakrishna and finding the marks of Vishnu's avataras on him.> > Ramakrishna was pure consciousness. Vivekananda had doubts and needed to be woken up by Ramakrishna and then he acted to spread light. Moreover, Ramakrishna himself addressed Vivekananda as the ancient rishi Nara.> > These are the reasons for my taking the position that Ramakrishna and Vivekananda are the avataras of rishis Narayana and Nara respectively, i.e. of Lord Vishnu Himself. Just as Arjuna fought the war after Krishna removed his confusion, Vivekananda blew the conch of sanatana dharma after Ramakrishna dispelled his confusions.> > It is possible to use astrology to draw conclusions, but I am not sure if our astrology is ready for that.> > May Ramakrishna's light shine on us, > Narasimha> -------------------------------> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> -------------------------------> > > ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~> > Dear Sourav> > Just because Thakur saw Himself in Vivekananda and in every creature does> > not mean that the creature also has the same ability or the vision of> > Thakkur.> > I sincerely believe that Thakkur is a Siva avatara (although others say> > Kali) and that Vivekananda is a Rishi who has come with the perfect rays of> > the Sun God - Savitur. If you study their charts you will appreciate my> > words.> > Brighu rishi is the energy of Venus while Vivekananda is the finest rays of> > the Sun to re-establish dharma and self respect.> > Thakkur's humility in showing the way to Vivekananda should never be> > mistaken to be any weakness or any less stature - it was his greatness. He> > even showed the true path to his own Guru Tota Puri.> > With best wishes & warm regards,> > Yours truly> > Sanjay Rath> > > > Webpages: <http://srath.com/> http://srath.com <http://.org/>> > http://.org <http://sjcerc.com/> http://sjcerc.com> > Atri SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India> > Phone: +91.11.25717162> > -> > > > > > _____ > > > > Sourav Chowdhury [souravc108] > > Saturday, December 31, 2005 1:04 PM> > sohamsa > > Re: Of the Saptarishis who is Narendranath (Swami> > Vivekananda)> > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> > > > Dear Narasimha-ji,> > > > Pranam. Thank you for writing back. Your dream> > account is very interesting. The little surprise part on my side is> > that I have been reading random passages from a Bengali book (please> > see below) and on the same day (i.e. today) that I read about this> > episode in that book, I have come across this article. And now you> > are also writing about this dream !> > > > I just wanted to add that, I tried not to take a position on who> > Narendranath could be from this article. The reason is following:> > > > The words of Thakur as used in this article seems to be a> > translation of a passage in Sri Sri Ramakrishna Lila Prasanga> > (Bengali) by Swami Saradananda, Swami Vivekananda's brother disciple> > whom Swami-ji had himself instructed to write Thakur's biography so> > that others may not speculate and adopt wrong information on> > Thakur's life. The words used in this book can be exactly translated> > as:> > > > Sri Ramakrishna speaking, with folded hands in front of> > Narendra : "I know, Prabhu, you are that ancient sage (rishi), Nara-> > rupi Narayana, to remedy the sufferings of living beings (jiva) you> > have again taken up a human form". Here Nara can mean Rishi Nara (as > > youhave said) or just human. In old-style Bengali, Nara is used as > > justa human being or the human species, to my knowledge.> > > > Hence, to me, this piece is open to interpretation. Apart from what> > you have pointed out, it could also be that Thakur gave him the> > status of Narayana and none less because in him he saw himself.> > > > In any case, I do agree that the author sort of negated his own> > hypothesis in the end by interpreting him to be Bhrigu and later> > translating Thakur's words to be Rishi Nara.> > > > The interesting part to me form this article is the segment> > titles "Sapta-Rishis" where he (or she) tabulates the Sapta-rishi> > names from various scriptural sources. Each of this list is> > different from another. My knowledge is very limited as to enable me> > to select the most plausible one.> > > > Pranam and thanks,> > > > Sourav> > ===================================================================> > sohamsa , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...> > > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sourav,> > > > > > Thanks for the link and I read that article.> > > > > > It is interesting that I should see this mail from you today. Just > > a couple of days, I was about to sleep and just closed my eyes. I > > vividly saw the face of somebody who appeared like a maharshi. The > > face is still fresh in my memory and I never such a person in real > > life. He had a thin long face with Vaishnava style lines on > > forehead. He had a pleasant and radiant face. After that face > > remained in my vision for a few seconds, suddenly Swami > > Vivekananda's face sprang from it and the face of maharshi > > disappeared.> > > > > > I have no doubt that Swami Vivekananda is a maharshi's > > incarnation. However, I am not sure I agree with the conclusion of > > the author that Narendra was an incarnation of Sage Bhrigu.> > > > > > Instead of speculating on whether there are only 7 maharshis in > > Rishi Mandala or more and who those 7 maharshis are and speculating > > on the similarity of the so-called "sattwik" and "dynamic" aspects > > of Maharshi Bhrigu and Swami Vivekananda, the author could have just > > gone by what Swami Vivekananda himself described as being said by > > Ramakrishna to him.> > > > > > If you go to the end of the article, you see that Swami > > Vivekananda recounts Ramakrishna telling him that he is Nara > > Maharshi. Narayana became Krishna and guided Nara Maharshi who was > > born as Arjuna. Again, Narayana became Ramakrishna and guided Nara > > Maharshi who was born as Narendra. The author's speculation is > > totally unneeded and most likely incorrect. Narendra was in all > > likelihood an incarnation of Nara Maharshi.> > > > > > May Ramakrishna's light shine on us, > > > Narasimha> > > -------------------------------> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > -------------------------------> > > > > > sohamsa , "Sourav Chowdhury" > > <souravc108> wrote:> > > >> > > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> > > > > > > > Dear Friends and Learned Jyotishis,> > > > Namaskar. I would like to > > share > > > > this wonderful article from the R. K. Math's Vedanta Kesari > > magazine. > > > > Thakur (Sri Ramakrishna) was most fond of Swami Vivekananda and > > > > refered to him as one of the Saptarishi's whom he had brought > > along > > > > for his earthly lila. This article is regarding that. Hope you > > enjoy > > > > reading.> > > > > > > > Best wishes for new year,> > > > > > > > Sourav> > > > > > ====================================================================> > > > Link for the article:> > > > http://www.sriramakrishnamath.org/magazine/vk/2005/3-3-3.asp> > > > > > ====================================================================

[Guest guest]

|| Hare Rama Krishna |||| Om Namo Bhagavate Raamakrishnaaya ||Dear Narasimha-garu and Sanjay-ji, Pranam. I too agree, in part, with Narasimha-ji. I disagree that Thakur is not worshipped as Vishnu avatara as Sanjay-ji remarked. Here I exerpt two portions from a booklet, Worship of Sri Ramakrishna compiled by Swami Hitananda (head pujari at Belur Math Temple). This book is published in 1982, from Ramakrishna Mission, Mylapore, Madras. 1." Worship of Sri Ramakrishna can be performed either on his relics or on an emblem of Siva (Sivalingam) or Vishnu (Shaalagraamah) or on a flower or a Bilva leaf placed on a copper plate in front. His picture too should be kept in front.. etc."2. " Bilva leaves should not be used in worshipping the stone emblem of Vishnu (Shaalgraamah), nor Tulsi in worshipping Siva. Both, however may be offered to Sri Ramakrishna.Mathur-babu, one of the primary rasaddaras (suppliers of material needs) of Thakur saw Thakur in the form of Mother Kali when Thakur was walking back and forth on the veranda absorbed in deep thought. Should we then say that Thakur is also an incarnation of Mother Kali ? In this way it will be like picking the fish bones from a fish. Thakur came to us to harmonize all religions and all symbolism and all valid religio-spiritual concepts. The same One who is Vishnu and Siva is also Rama and Krishna and now Ramakrishna. One author wrote in amazement that it is quite surprising to see a Vishnu (in this case Radhamadhava) mandir in the same compound as Bavataarini Kali's temple with twelve Siva temples on one the sides of the compound. Probably no where before Radhamadhava is jointly worshipped with Kali as in Dakshineshwar. When Adyapitha was established, Thakur himself appeared in Annadaathakur's (the sadhaka who found the Adya Murti and established Adyapitha) dream and directed him to his goal. Hence in Addapitha the three statues of Adya Ma, Radhamadhava and Thakur are worshipped together. Anyway, the point is that emblems are many but the object is One. I hope this dispels the doubts. Again, I reserve my comments about Narasimha-ji's remarks on Swamiji being Rishi Nara. I don't think, and this is based on my knowledge of Bengali and based on however much I read of the authentic Sri Ramakrishna literature , that Thakur called Vivekananda as Rishi Nara. The words (used by Thakur for Swami-ji) from Swami Saradananda-ji's book is "Nara-rupi Narayana" which is rhetorical and under exact translation means Narayana in the form of Nara (Nara is traditional use in Bengali is "human"). Narendra also means the King of the Naras, or, the King of the entire human race.Please accept my pranam and best wishes,Sourav=====================================================sohamsa , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...> wrote:>> Pranaam Sanjay,> > > Thakkur then tells him that He is that Rama and that> > Krishna...you have interpreted this to mean Narayana.> > Not only that. There is a legend that Vishnu appeared in a dream of his father before his birth and told him that he would be born as his son.> > There is another legend of a saint - I forgot his name - hearing about Ramakrishna, coming to him when he was lying unconscious, finding 16 marks of a Vishnu avatara on him, declaring in ecstasy "he is Rama, he is Krishna".> > Given that Ramakrishna himself said that Vivekananda was rishi Nara, it makes sense to think of Ramakrishna as Narayana. It is Narayana who collaborates with Nara.> > For all these reasons, I find it appropriate to think of Ramakrishna as an avatara of Narayana maharshi, i.e. as an avatara of Vishnu, rather than Shiva.> > BTW, there are many people who do worship a picture of Ramakrishna Paramahansa.> > May Ramakrishna's light shine on us, > Narasimha> -------------------------------> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> -------------------------------> > > ~~ om sadÄÅ>iva gurave namah ~~> > Dear Narasimha> > You talk of the episode when Swamiji was at the feet of Thakkur and had doubts (as usual) due to his Rahu dasa. He has also suffered very much for doubting Thakkur. Now at this stage Thakkur gets up in that weak state and tells him not to doubt - there can be nothing more foolish really. Thakkur then tells him that He is that Rama and that Krishna...you have interpreted this to mean Narayana. So be it, but I think Thakkur was saying it to remove his doubts which come from Rajas which causes this differentiation.> > The birth episode of Thakkur clearly confirms without doubt that He is a Shiva avatara. Even today Thakkur is worshipped not in pictures nor in statues but in a Shiva Linga called the Baneswara Linga. It is this Shiva Linga that is placed underneath the statue for the benefit of the public, so that when they meditate on the state they are actually meditating on the real Thakkur - the Baneshwara Shiva Linga.> > With best wishes & warm regards,> > Yours truly> > Sanjay Rath> > > > Webpages: <http://srath.com/> http://srath.com <http://.org/> http://.org <http://sjcerc.com/> http://sjcerc.com> > Atri SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India> > Phone: +91.11.25717162> > -> > > > > > _____ > > > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [mailtovr@c...] > > Saturday, December 31, 2005 11:01 PM> > sohamsa > > Re: Of the Saptarishis who is Narendranath (Swami Vivekananda)> > > > > > Dear Sanjay,> > > > There are accounts of saints visiting Ramakrishna and finding the marks of Vishnu's avataras on him.> > > > Ramakrishna was pure consciousness. Vivekananda had doubts and needed to be woken up by Ramakrishna and then he acted to spread light. Moreover, Ramakrishna himself addressed Vivekananda as the ancient rishi Nara.> > > > These are the reasons for my taking the position that Ramakrishna and Vivekananda are the avataras of rishis Narayana and Nara respectively, i.e. of Lord Vishnu Himself. Just as Arjuna fought the war after Krishna removed his confusion, Vivekananda blew the conch of sanatana dharma after Ramakrishna dispelled his confusions.> > > > It is possible to use astrology to draw conclusions, but I am not sure if our astrology is ready for that.> > > > May Ramakrishna's light shine on us, > > Narasimha> > -------------------------------> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > -------------------------------> > > > > ~~ om sadâúiva gurave namah ~~> > > Dear Sourav> > > Just because Thakur saw Himself in Vivekananda and in every creature does> > > not mean that the creature also has the same ability or the vision of> > > Thakkur.> > > I sincerely believe that Thakkur is a Siva avatara (although others say> > > Kali) and that Vivekananda is a Rishi who has come with the perfect rays of> > > the Sun God - Savitur. If you study their charts you will appreciate my> > > words.> > > Brighu rishi is the energy of Venus while Vivekananda is the finest rays of> > > the Sun to re-establish dharma and self respect.> > > Thakkur's humility in showing the way to Vivekananda should never be> > > mistaken to be any weakness or any less stature - it was his greatness. He> > > even showed the true path to his own Guru Tota Puri.> > > With best wishes & warm regards,> > > Yours truly> > > Sanjay Rath> > > > > > Webpages: <http://srath.com/> http://srath.com <http://.org/>> > > http://.org <http://sjcerc.com/> http://sjcerc.com> > > Atri SJC: 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India> > > Phone: +91.11.25717162> > > -> > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > Sourav Chowdhury [souravc108] > > > Saturday, December 31, 2005 1:04 PM> > > sohamsa > > > Re: Of the Saptarishis who is Narendranath (Swami> > > Vivekananda)> > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> > > > > > Dear Narasimha-ji,> > > > > > Pranam. Thank you for writing back. Your dream> > > account is very interesting. The little surprise part on my side is> > > that I have been reading random passages from a Bengali book (please> > > see below) and on the same day (i.e. today) that I read about this> > > episode in that book, I have come across this article. And now you> > > are also writing about this dream !> > > > > > I just wanted to add that, I tried not to take a position on who> > > Narendranath could be from this article. The reason is following:> > > > > > The words of Thakur as used in this article seems to be a> > > translation of a passage in Sri Sri Ramakrishna Lila Prasanga> > > (Bengali) by Swami Saradananda, Swami Vivekananda's brother disciple> > > whom Swami-ji had himself instructed to write Thakur's biography so> > > that others may not speculate and adopt wrong information on> > > Thakur's life. The words used in this book can be exactly translated> > > as:> > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna speaking, with folded hands in front of> > > Narendra : "I know, Prabhu, you are that ancient sage (rishi), Nara-> > > rupi Narayana, to remedy the sufferings of living beings (jiva) you> > > have again taken up a human form". Here Nara can mean Rishi Nara (as > > > youhave said) or just human. In old-style Bengali, Nara is used as > > > justa human being or the human species, to my knowledge.> > > > > > Hence, to me, this piece is open to interpretation. Apart from what> > > you have pointed out, it could also be that Thakur gave him the> > > status of Narayana and none less because in him he saw himself.> > > > > > In any case, I do agree that the author sort of negated his own> > > hypothesis in the end by interpreting him to be Bhrigu and later> > > translating Thakur's words to be Rishi Nara.> > > > > > The interesting part to me form this article is the segment> > > titles "Sapta-Rishis" where he (or she) tabulates the Sapta-rishi> > > names from various scriptural sources. Each of this list is> > > different from another. My knowledge is very limited as to enable me> > > to select the most plausible one.> > > > > > Pranam and thanks,> > > > > > Sourav> > > ===================================================================> > > sohamsa , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" pvr@c... > > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Sourav,> > > > > > > > Thanks for the link and I read that article.> > > > > > > > It is interesting that I should see this mail from you today. Just > > > a couple of days, I was about to sleep and just closed my eyes. I > > > vividly saw the face of somebody who appeared like a maharshi. The > > > face is still fresh in my memory and I never such a person in real > > > life. He had a thin long face with Vaishnava style lines on > > > forehead. He had a pleasant and radiant face. After that face > > > remained in my vision for a few seconds, suddenly Swami > > > Vivekananda's face sprang from it and the face of maharshi > > > disappeared.> > > > > > > > I have no doubt that Swami Vivekananda is a maharshi's > > > incarnation. However, I am not sure I agree with the conclusion of > > > the author that Narendra was an incarnation of Sage Bhrigu.> > > > > > > > Instead of speculating on whether there are only 7 maharshis in > > > Rishi Mandala or more and who those 7 maharshis are and speculating > > > on the similarity of the so-called "sattwik" and "dynamic" aspects > > > of Maharshi Bhrigu and Swami Vivekananda, the author could have just > > > gone by what Swami Vivekananda himself described as being said by > > > Ramakrishna to him.> > > > > > > > If you go to the end of the article, you see that Swami > > > Vivekananda recounts Ramakrishna telling him that he is Nara > > > Maharshi. Narayana became Krishna and guided Nara Maharshi who was > > > born as Arjuna. Again, Narayana became Ramakrishna and guided Nara > > > Maharshi who was born as Narendra. The author's speculation is > > > totally unneeded and most likely incorrect. Narendra was in all > > > likelihood an incarnation of Nara Maharshi.> > > > > > > > May Ramakrishna's light shine on us, > > > > Narasimha> > > > -------------------------------> > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > -------------------------------> > > > > > > > sohamsa , "Sourav Chowdhury" > > > souravc108 wrote:> > > > >> > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends and Learned Jyotishis,> > > > > Namaskar. I would like to > > > share > > > > > this wonderful article from the R. K. Math's Vedanta Kesari > > > magazine. > > > > > Thakur (Sri Ramakrishna) was most fond of Swami Vivekananda and > > > > > refered to him as one of the Saptarishi's whom he had brought > > > along > > > > > for his earthly lila. This article is regarding that. Hope you > > > enjoy > > > > > reading.> > > > > > > > > > Best wishes for new year,> > > > > > > > > > Sourav> > > > > > > > ====================================================================> > > > > Link for the article:> > > > > http://www.sriramakrishnamath.org/magazine/vk/2005/3-3-3.asp> > > > > > > > ====================================================================>