Guest guest Posted July 14, 2000 Report Share Posted July 14, 2000 Dear Narasimha, What shall we do for the people near the poles? The Sunrise shall take place after 6 months!! The LMT equivalent for 6 AM is the only definition that shall work everywhere. Your statement about it working near the equator alone is not correct as it is independant of the sunrise and hence independant of latitude. Do rethink. Those who use sunrise will have problems when they consider higher latitudes as the sunrise shall be difficult to define for places inside the artic or antartic circle i.e. beyond 66 deg lat. the sunrise in England can be at 4 AM and we shall have horas stretched out like the placidius house system which can have two or more houses in a sign. First be sure whether we shall use variable house lengths or fixed house lengths. If they are variable, then the horas can be stretched. If they are fixed at 30 deg, then the Horas cannot be stretched. The concept has to be uniform as Horas and houses are closely interlinked. Best wishes Sanjay Rath - Narasimha Rao <pvr <varahamihira > Friday, July 14, 2000 7:06 PM [sri Guru] Hora definition (Re: Lesson#6) > Pranaam Sanjay, > > Almost all the authors (including Santhanam, Dr. Raman, > Dr. Sastri) defined horas starting at sunrise and not > at " 6 am (LMT) " as you gave in the lesson. I absolutely > do not understand the need to create a new controversy. > Using " 6 am (LMT) " as the starting point for horas in a > day has no astrological basis whatsoever. It is merely > an approximation that works well in India (and places > near equator). > > For Hindus, a new day starts at sunrise. The first hora > belongs to the weekday lord. But the new weekday starts > at sunrise. So the first hora of the day must also start > at sunrise. > > [Those who use Jagannatha Hora Lite software can find > the hora lord from the software. Click the menu item > Basic >> Shadbala and find the planet having 60.0 under > hora bala (under kala bala). That planet owns the > running hora. However, this uses sunrise and not 6 am > LMT.] > > Your sishya, > Narasimha > > > > ------ > Your old buddies are not out of range anymore. Free search with > Military.com's Personnel Locator. > http://click./1/4158/9/_/2192/_/963585736/ > ------ > > OM TAT SAT > Archive: varahamihira > Info: varahamihira/info.html > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2000 Report Share Posted July 14, 2000 OM namo narayanaya Dear Gurus and fellow students, Sanjay Rath wrote: <snipped> > First be sure whether we shall use variable house lengths or fixed house > lengths. If they are variable, then the horas can be stretched. If they are > fixed at 30 deg, then the Horas cannot be stretched. The concept has to be > uniform as Horas and houses are closely interlinked. Thank you for this point. Once we have the dweepa order, we divide each day into 24 portions, and we can determine the weekday order. The ownership of day/week/month is important in the calculation of graha bala. However, i thought the two most important charts were rasi & D-9. Weekday order is determined by dividing the day into horas...not rasis or navamsas. Does this mean that D-2 is to be given more importance than rasi or D-9? i thought at the very least we should also consider ownership of navamsas alongside ownership of horas. Narasimha Rao wrote: <snipped> > Almost all the authors (including Santhanam, Dr. Raman, > Dr. Sastri) defined horas starting at sunrise and not > at " 6 am (LMT) " as you gave in the lesson. I absolutely > do not understand the need to create a new controversy. > Using " 6 am (LMT) " as the starting point for horas in a > day has no astrological basis whatsoever. It is merely > an approximation that works well in India (and places > near equator). I think that Sanjayji has defined the horas the same way as you have...between sunrise and sunset. But, it is the definition of sunrise that is the point of disagreement: apparent sunrise/sunset vs 6am/6pm. The answer to this question affects not only horas, but also calculation of weekday of birth, upagrahas, rahu kalam etc. your sishya, ajit -- Ajit Krishnan ajit@(julian|engga).uwo.ca http://publish.uwo.ca/~akrishna gpg key B44D03FD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2000 Report Share Posted July 14, 2000 Om Vishnave NamahDear Narasimha, My comments are given below: - Narasimha Rao <pvr <varahamihira > Friday, July 14, 2000 11:53 PM [sri Guru] Hora definition (Re: Lesson#6) > Pranaam Gurudeva, May Jagannath Bless you.> > You gave some food for thought when you talked about the> poles. I will ponder over it. This is the point. It is not possible that Parasara's vision was limited to India alone when he was writing the Hora shastra.> > However, saying that a new weekday starts at 6 am LMT is> very very arbitrary. Westerners start a new weekday at> midnight (local standard time). If that is arbitrary,> taking 6 am (local mean time) is not less arbitrary.> Why 6 am? Why not 5 am? Why not 6:30 am? Why not 6:05> am? Why not 6:01 am? This is very arbitrary. If any time calculation has to be started, then it must have an initial point. What you say as 6 AM LMT (in Kali Yuga) was 0 Hrs LMT during the period of Parasara. In fact this doubt of yours has affirmed my doubt that the Jyotisha in this list do not have a clear concept of time definitions related to Jyotish. You have raised two points:- (a) that the time could be 6.05 etc instead of 6 AM LMT: Answer: No, it cannot be. Any scale built by a rational mind shall have an integer, preferably Zero as an initial point. (b) that the time could be 12 Noon or 12 Midnight instead of 6 AM for the initial point: This has been explained by me in the definition of the four Gayatri. Since the present period is kali Yuga, it is not strange that the Kali Gayatri or Midnight has come to represent the starting point of the day. Let us not blame the westerners for this. we have also adopted this and the world sings Happy New year at the strike of the midnight hour on 31st December. Unfortunate but true. The choise of the Gayatri, if left to a pure sadhu would automatically be the Brahma gayatri of 6 AM (which in the Vedic Time scale would be 00 Hora) as Brahma represents the begining and what we are concerned about is the begining of the day. Thus with the understanding of the Gayatri and the need to have a scale for time having 24 divisions, it was natural to start at what is now called 6.00 AM LMT. I have a question for you. Can you tell why the starting point of the Zodiac is Zero degrees of Aries and not 15 deg Taurus?> > For Hindus, any measure of time must be based on> astronomical factors, like the movement of lagna, Moon> and Sun. Sun's longitude or the longitude difference of> Sun and Moon or the longitude difference of Sun and> lagna forms the basis for measuring time. Astronomical factors like Lagna, movement of sun etc, do help to determine the QUALITY of time, not the time itself. Some time back we had done an exercise of trying to time the Jovian years with the transit of jupiter. I am sure you will remember the results which you had so carefully researched. We should realise that a scale for time has to be linear (Man's intelligence is limited to this today) and this cannot be done with any of the planets. The closest to this is the annual motion of the sun and the time taken for the earth to rotate around its axis. Again things like wobble etc are to be accounted for. Thus, measures of time (QUANTITY OF TIME) are determined from the average motion of these bodies. However, we will still need a starting point and this was taken as the begining of Kali Yuga for accounting the years. Others used Saka era, Christ's birth etc. that is besides the point. Here we are accounting for the days based on the rotation of the earth which was found to be for "ONE DAY AND ONE NIGHT" called AHORATRA. The total Quantity of time of ONE DAY AND ONE NIGHT was to be mapped into the Zodiac of 12 houses and this resulted in the concept of BHAVA LAGNA which is different from LAGNA. Lagna is a non-linear rotation as it is based on the elliptical path whereas BHAVA LAGNA is a linear concept based on the circular path. Thus, the first measure of time derived from ONE DAY & ONE NIGHT was the Bhava of 2 hours each. You will also note that the signs are 30 degrees each (Why?? Don't you find this arbitrary when we can have exact maps of each sign on the basis of the stars/constellations it contains??). The next division of time was for HORA LAGNA which moves at twice the speed of Bhava Lagna and was to be mapped into ONE DAY OR (repeat OR) ONE NIGHT. Thus the Hora period (Called HOUR today-thanks to the Greeks!) was derived. Now the hard question comes. Time, if it is to be linear, cannot be based on a variable like the sunrise. However, the Lagna can be calculated only from the sun and hence, had to be on the basis of sunrise. so also the Hl or GL had to follow the Lagna in a chart construction. the only way to resolve the issue was to use the plane of the equator and have a linear time scale of 24 hours for the day (else day lengths would also vary and it would be next to impossible to have a uniform calander or watch). It was also necessary to understand and apply the fact that time is an independant linear concept. This could be done if one of the four Gayatri (quadrants) would be used to initiate the time...Brahma Gayatri was the obvious choise. This was also done for Yajna & pooja etc.> > There is no disagreement among scholars about when the> new weekday and its first hora start. They all agree that> it happens when Sun rises. If you want to deviate, there> must be a very strong reason. You don't seem to have one. What is your definition of strong reason? It is wrong to say that there is no disagreement. Jyotish is one topic where the largest amount of disagreement is present..largely due to lack of depth of understanding. Till recently these scholars did not know WHY THE THREE PLANETS JUPITER, MARS AND SATURN HAVE SPECIAL ASPECTS!! At least you are quite aware of their scholarship when this happened in the Jyotish-list and K N Rao went to look for some documents/manuscripts he had hidden under some box that could not be found even after I gave so many hints. Such intelligent scholars will always agree, yet I beg to disagree. I shall continue to do so till somebody can account for the Hora's in the north pole using the sunrise time. > > Hora comes from ahoratra (day & night). We take one day> and one night and divide the total into 24 parts. Why do you divide into 24 and not 25? I have given the answer to this above. We first divide by 12 EQUAL Parts and then by two. It is> usually equal to an hour (60 minutes). However, that is> not necessary. The measure of time is the motion of Sun,> Moon and earth and NOT the oscillations of a quartz> crystal. Can you explain the motion of the MOON and its influence on the Hora? Infact, how can you explain this?? Which quartz crystal??? Do not speak in riddles. Time was kept in well calculated pots of water called Ghatika. We call them Danda in Oriya. In any case what has this got to do with the discussion? > > In locations where sunrise is at 4 am, I am not suggesting> anything like "Placidus" house division. If sunrise is at> 4 am on one day and at 4:03 am on the next day, then I> take each hora as 24:03/24=1 hour 7.5 sec. A new weekday> starts at 4 am and the weekday lord's hora starts along> with it. It ends at 5:00:7.5 am and the next hora starts.> So where is "Placidus house division" here? I don't see> what you mean. That is a good point. Let us examine it. The hora is a measure of time equal to 2 and a half Ghatika. A Ghatika is 24 minutes in length and thus, a Hora is equal to 60 Minutes or one Hour. I still cannot see how this has stretched more than 60 minutes. The difference is that the Birth time is defined in terms of Ghatika after sunrise to help in the easy calculation of the Lagna and special lagna. This has also been explained earlier. Your point is that the day starts with the sight of the upper limb of the Sun. I also agree with this and this is the day for all human activities. What happens if this sunrise were to occur once in six months (like in the North Pole)? Then the time definition would go awry. The length of the day would not be 24 hours but almost 6 months!! Realising this, the Maharishi's gave an independant definition of time in terms of fixed quantities called Hora, Ghatika (Danda in Orissa), Vighatika (Lita in Oriya) and Pal (Bi-lita in Oriya). I am doing the logical thing by starting> the new weekday and its first hora at sunrise, whereas> you are waiting for 2 more hours. It would depend on the definition of DAY. The definiton of day for the calculation of Lagna is the sunrise. The definition of day for all ritual activities is the first visibility of the upper limb of the Sun (Varahamihira). Does this mean that the ritual knowledge of the aryans had nothing to do with the Alps or other northern lattitudes from where they are supposed to have migrated?? I hope the historians really apply themselves. This Sunrise is VISIBLE. What is not visible is time, and Kala is one of the definitions of Godhead. > > I am absolutely confident that I am correct. I am also> confident that you will agree later. Kindly rethink. How can you say that? Did you do a Prasna Jataka? I have debated for years on this concept of Hora and the knowledge was gradually seeping in. Small words from the elders did help very much. > > When we talk about the poles, a lot of weird things happen> there and the hora/sunrise puzzle is only one of them. I> will ponder about it anyway. Forget the poles and try the higher latitudes, say 80 Deg North. There are 12 Diva Horas and 12 ratri Horas. Try to work on this. That is why out of the 24 horas in the Zodiac, 12 are ruled by the Sun and 12 by the Moon. Thus although you give the example of Sunrise shifting by a few minutes, you should also take the sunset into account. Then the length of the Hora will stretch or compress beyond 2 & 1/2 Ghatika.> > Your sishya,> Narasimha> You really made me work hard today. I hope others can also come up with strong points. also please tell me how you were so sure about me changing my mind at a later date? Blessings Sanjay Rath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2000 Report Share Posted July 14, 2000 Dear Ajit, Good thinking. Ask me this when you are in India next time. There is a lot to Hora. We will come to Navamsa gradually. try to answer the Hora exercise. Blessings Sanjay - Ajit Krishnan <ajit <varahamihira > Friday, July 14, 2000 11:31 PM Re: [sri Guru] Hora definition (Re: Lesson#6) > OM namo narayanaya > > Dear Gurus and fellow students, > > Sanjay Rath wrote: > <snipped> > > > First be sure whether we shall use variable house lengths or fixed house > > lengths. If they are variable, then the horas can be stretched. If they are > > fixed at 30 deg, then the Horas cannot be stretched. The concept has to be > > uniform as Horas and houses are closely interlinked. > > Thank you for this point. > > Once we have the dweepa order, we divide each day into 24 portions, and > we can determine the weekday order. The ownership of day/week/month is > important in the calculation of graha bala. > > However, i thought the two most important charts were rasi & D-9. Weekday > order is determined by dividing the day into horas...not rasis or > navamsas. Does this mean that D-2 is to be given more importance than > rasi or D-9? > > i thought at the very least we should also consider ownership of navamsas > alongside ownership of horas. > > Narasimha Rao wrote: > <snipped> > > > Almost all the authors (including Santhanam, Dr. Raman, > > Dr. Sastri) defined horas starting at sunrise and not > > at " 6 am (LMT) " as you gave in the lesson. I absolutely > > do not understand the need to create a new controversy. > > Using " 6 am (LMT) " as the starting point for horas in a > > day has no astrological basis whatsoever. It is merely > > an approximation that works well in India (and places > > near equator). > > I think that Sanjayji has defined the horas the same way as you > have...between sunrise and sunset. But, it is the definition of sunrise > that is the point of disagreement: apparent sunrise/sunset vs 6am/6pm. > > The answer to this question affects not only horas, but also calculation > of weekday of birth, upagrahas, rahu kalam etc. > > your sishya, > > ajit > > -- > Ajit Krishnan > ajit@(julian|engga).uwo.ca > http://publish.uwo.ca/~akrishna > gpg key B44D03FD > > > ------ > Your old buddies are not out of range anymore. Free search with > Military.com's Personnel Locator. > http://click./1/4158/9/_/2192/_/963597598/ > ------ > > OM TAT SAT > Archive: varahamihira > Info: varahamihira/info.html > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2000 Report Share Posted July 15, 2000 Om Namo Bhagavate VasudevayaMy dear Narasimha, > If time in hours was standardized a little differently, what> we call 6:00 AM now could have been called 6:05 AM or 6:01 AM.> My point is that taking hours and minutes is an arbitrary thing.> Hours and minutes are defined in a rather arbitrary way. I have given you the casis for the standardisation. can you give me any basis for the 6.05 time? If not then what is the meaning of this time. > > I have a question for you. Can you tell why the starting> > point of the Zodiac is Zero degrees of Aries and not 15 deg> > Taurus?> > Zodiac starts from 0 deg in Ar because zodiac was divided> into 12 parts and the first one was called Aries. In other words,> it is NOT the case that the 12 rasis existed first and then> someone figured out where the zodiac should start. On the other> hand, zodiac (Maha Vishnu) was the first thing to exist. It was> divided into 12 equal parts and the first one (head of Vishnu)> was called Aries. Why was the head in Aries and not in Leo? > > They are are linear within a given day, but the slope of the> linear formula can slightly change from day to day. If you insist> that we should always progress BL at the rate of 1 rasi in 2 hrs,> you will have a *discontinuity* at sunrise. Moreover, Parasara> clearly defined it in terms of ghatis. One ghati = 24 minutes> is only approximate. The correct definition of ghati is 1/60th> of a day and the correct definition of a day is sunrise to the> next sunrise. Sanjay: We do have a fundamental difference in this definition of Ghatika. The Ghatika was a pot with a hole in the bottom and took a definite time to empty out. This was calibrated on the day of the Sankranti (Makar Sankranti I think) as the day and night were of equal length. Thus the ghatika is a fixed time measure of 24 minutes. Thus 5 ghati's = 2 hours or 2 Hora's. Some interesting questions are (1) How would they know the difference between the length of the days and nights? Ans: By having two Ghatika - One to measure from Sunrise to sunset and another that continued from Sankranti without change. The water left in the Ghatika at the time of Sunset would give the time difference. This again would have to be calibrated into Vi-Ghatika. this was done by the scholars. (2) How could the Maharishi's be aware of such a modern concept as linear time? Ans: If they could give the detailed definition of the Bhumandala showing their ability in relativity, it is not hard to understand that they were aware of linear time. > > from ONE DAY & ONE NIGHT was the Bhava of 2 hours each. You> > will also note that the signs are 30 degrees each (Why?? Don't> > you find this arbitrary when we can have exact maps of each> > sign on the basis of the stars/constellations it contains??).> > No. I do not question the number of rasis, number of planets> etc etc. But I question attaching importance to 5 am or 6 am or> 7 am or 6:05 am or 6:01 am. Sanjay: This is the sunrise on the date of the equinox. That should be clearer now. > > > The next division of time was for HORA LAGNA which moves at> > twice the speed of Bhava Lagna and was to be mapped into ONE> > DAY OR (repeat OR) ONE NIGHT. Thus the Hora period (Called> > HOUR today-thanks to the Greeks!) was derived.> > Now the hard question comes. Time, if it is to be linear,> > cannot be based on a variable like the sunrise. However, the> > Lagna> > Why does it have to be linear? Why can't it be nonlinear? Most> other measures of time (solar years/days, lunar years/days) are> all nonlinear.Sanjay: Time is linear in concept. It is one dimensional. How do you say that the solar year is non-linear? Lunar year, I agree and that is the primary nature definition of the Moon...as being Moody, whereas the Sun is defined as being steady. There is no end to this argument as you are not going to change this concept easily. I want you work out the examples with the rest of the class, at least using the Hora you define. After this we shall do Kala, Yama and Yamardha's to clear the concepts. I know that these things will change gradually. Let us have the horoscope of Pearl finn and try to define the Hora in her chart, or maybe for another person born in Alaska, then we could arrive at better answers easily. > I did not say that there are no disagreements. But, when it> comes to the questions of when a day starts and when the first> hora of a day starts, I haven't seen any disagreements. All> the scholars I have read and respect used sunrise. Sanjay: The day starts with the first sight of the Upper limb of the Sun (Varahamihira). This controversy is over with the acceptance of this definition by the Calander committee..or so it seems. Perhaps you do not agree. I am glad that you have an opinion and are open to discussions on this. We improve in this manner. There are so many others who do not have any opinion at all!!? > Until one convinces me that a day starts at 6 am instead of> sunrise, I will go with Dr.Raman, Santhanam and others. And,> I will request you to respect the standard opinion until you> can give a strong argument about why 6 am should be used. We> don't need new controversies. We already have enough. Sanjay: I have not said this in any Public forum like the GJList or Ved-Astro List. I am only telling this to my sisya. If they want to understand, they can, else ...What is important is that someday they could see the chart of someone born in Alaska and then they should not start disbelieving Jyotish. Dr Raman has his own views about Ayanamsa..Anyway let us leave this out. I also have this thing about Hora.> I still don't know whether true sunrise shoould be used or> apparent sunrise. I don't know whether the center of Sun or the> upper limb of Sun should rise at the time of sunrise that starts> a day. Regarding all those issues, I am open. But I am convinced> that 6 am LMT is not the right answer. Sanjay: Answer for what? It is the definition of the Hora or Hour and is 6AM LMT. The Sunrise is the sight of the upper limb of the Sun (Varahamihira). Thus Sunrise is defined as the apparant visibility of the upper disc of the Sun. The first ray of the Sun is the one that drives away darkness. The problem arising is the mutual contradiction between the start of the day in the two definitions. This difference has to be there due to the variable time of sunrise. Take the case of a person born at 5:30 AM LMT when the sunrise was at 5 AM LMT on Wednesday. According to you, this would be Mercury Hora whereas according to what I teach this should be Venus Hora. TEST CASE Let me try to understand your point: Take this random case of a person born on 15 December 1999 at Tatitlek, Valdez-Cordova, Alaska at 8:00'AM Standard Time. The calculations from jagannath Hora are given under:- Date of Birth: December 15, 1999Time of Birth: 8:00:00 amTime Zone of Birth: 9:00 West of GMTLongitude of Birth: 146 W 41Latitude of Birth: 60 N 52Lunar month (maasa): Margasira Lunar day (tithi): Sukla AshtamiTithi balance: 0.826433Nakshatra balance: 0.587090Sun-Moon Yoga: SiddhiSun-Moon Karana: VishtiVara (weekday): Tuesday Sunrise = 9:58:24 am (Apparent rise - upper limb)Ayanamsa = 23-51-8.88Dasa year length chosen = 365.2425 days The problem of this Sunrise time gradually moving towards Midday and sunset also at midday ..take a look at this for your comments. Do study the cases as we go closer into the Artic Circle and then form your opinion. Do also consider the time of sunset for determining Yama's and Yamardha which are also time measures of Vedic Astrology with important predictive uses. You say that Ghatika is calculated from Sunrise only. Then what do we do about Vighatika's? Especially when Jaimini teaches that the sex of a person can be determined from the Vighatika Lord calculated from Sunrise or Sunset? Then there must be another system of calculating Ghatika from sunset which is independant of the claculations from sunrise. Do you recommend any such system for sunset. Best wishes, Sanjay Rath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2000 Report Share Posted July 15, 2000 Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya My dear Solai, i have asked some very fine questions in the assignment on Hora . Kindly attempt them. As regards blood circulation, let me tell you that even after the cutting of the limb of a person, his astral limb exists. thus the cutting of the umbilical chord is the actual time of birth..signifying independance from mother. Circulation is no criteria as the milk that the mother continues to feed to the childis also a part of her blood. This is the reason as to why MARS is also a STHIRA KARAKA for mother along with the Moon. The father contributes his semen and the Venus is sthira Karaka for father along with the Sun. You raised a very good point and I felt that clarification is called for. Please keep this for the records you are making. Further, if there are any other questions, please go ahead and ask. With Regards Sanjay Rath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2000 Report Share Posted July 15, 2000 JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Gurudeva, Pranaams. I would like to add just a few simple thoughts to this discussion. I see the rationale in accepting the system of Rasi=Bhava as this will work universally in all D-charts and in all latitudes on the Earth. Similarly, if ewe accept a fixed duartion for the day and horas (which hence must depart from considerint sunrise and sunset, especially in higher latitudes) then it will make both the zodiac and the Hora division work on all latitudes. For this we need to fix a point where we divide the day into two halves of 12 horas. I think that accpeting local noon as the mid-point of the day is not arbitrary at all. It relates to the astronomical event of the Sun's reaching midheaven (the highest point on his daily course) whether this is visible or not. So if we are to use horas of fixed legth then the 6th Hora of the day shoud start exactly at local noon. Hence the first will start exactly 6 hours before, i.e. at 6 am local time. Otherwise if we fix the starting point of the first hora to the time of apparent sunrise it may happen on some latitudes and some time of the year that local noon falls into the 5th or 7th hora of the day, and the 12th hora of the day will fall after sunset or the 1st hora of the night will fall befire sunset. So chosing the time of apparent sunrise will be much more arbitrary in the practical use of Horas that choosing local noon or 6 hours before or after it. Please evaluate. Your shishya, Gauranga das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2000 Report Share Posted July 23, 2000 >What shall we do for the people near the poles? The Sunrise shall take place >after 6 months!! The LMT equivalent for 6 AM is the only definition that >shall work everywhere. Namaste Sanjay, In your above statement you do not mention how is midday ascertained at locations close to either pole, in which the time from one sunrise to the next is significantly more/less than 24 hours. Could you kindly explain? Also, since LMT is used only for Hora schedules within a 24 period, is there any need of any other rectification of the Rasi chart for people born in places where the time between sunrises is more/less than 24 hours? Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Hopefully we may receive some wisdom as well. Jaya Jagannatha! Beatrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2000 Report Share Posted July 23, 2000 Om Datta Guru Dear Beatrice, The concept of time is not based on Sunrise. If it were so, then time could not be linear and we can never define the " Astronomical events with any accuracy " unless we all had very perfect calculations about sunrise in everyplace. Time is beyond the three physical dimensions of space and is beyond the five Tatwa. That is why the entire physical creation exists within the physical limitations (Called Bandana or bondage) of the five tatwa. When the question of definition of time comes, we look at our fathers and elders who had come to this world before us and leave earlier (most cases) and realise that there can be a linear scale, the begining of which is beyond the grasp of human brain, but which is always there. This time alone is the true representative of God. If you can get hold of the mahabharat Video's of ramanand sagar, this concept is well defined at the begining by Sri Krishna (every serial used to have this in the begining). Now, for a linear scale, we should have some point to measure the distance. So, we fix this as the time when the major planets would be around the zero degree of Aries (Kali Yuga. 18 Feb 3102 B.C) . I'm deviating into another detail. To understand the Hora, Ghatika, Vighatika and other fixed measures of time, conceive (imagime) the earth as being cylindrical and flat at the poles. Thus the length of day is similar throughout and that the places in the same Longitude (Latitude is irrelevant in this concept) shall have the same time of Noon. That is why when we calculate the LMT of any place, we are only considering the Longitude of the place and the longitude of the Zone the place is in. We are NOT considering the Latitude for calculating LMT. But, we consider the Latitude for calculating the Sunrise. This is the primary difference. According to this definition of time the poles are no longer single points on a globe at the apex, but flat circular bodies. Unless we do this, we can never define time for the poles and when we stand (imagine of course) at the north pole and look at our watch ticking away, we would wonder " What really is the meaning of time? " . It's good to hear from you. With Best Wishes, Sanjay Rath PS: Fasting for one day in a week is very good for health. Preferably on the day of the 12th Lord or that of the Lord of the Upapada..at least from Sunrise to Sunset (!! Day definition-Thank God we Indians don't live near the Poles. I would starve to death in six months without food!!) - B. Reusch <reusch <varahamihira > Cc: <varahamihira > Sunday, July 23, 2000 9:11 AM Re: [sri Guru] Hora definition (Re: Lesson#6) > >What shall we do for the people near the poles? The Sunrise shall take place > >after 6 months!! The LMT equivalent for 6 AM is the only definition that > >shall work everywhere. > > Namaste Sanjay, > > In your above statement you do not mention how is midday ascertained > at locations close to either pole, in which the time from one sunrise > to the next is significantly more/less than 24 hours. > Could you kindly explain? > > Also, since LMT is used only for Hora schedules within a 24 period, > is there any need of any other rectification of the Rasi chart for > people born in places where the time between sunrises is more/less > than 24 hours? > > Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Hopefully we may receive > some wisdom as well. > > Jaya Jagannatha! > > Beatrice > > > > ------ > Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations. > Remember the good 'ol days > http://click./1/7076/9/_/2192/_/964323337/ > ------ > > OM TAT SAT > Archive: varahamihira > Info: varahamihira/info.html > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.