Saptamsa- Case study-2

August 25, 2000

OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH

JAYA JAGANNATHA

Namaste Mr.Karu,

Thanks for analysing the chart in detail.

For our mutual learning purpose I give my comments below.

Thanks

Solai Kannan

Karu [heen]Thursday, August 24, 2000 11:44 AMVarahamihiraCc: Vedic Astrology[sri Guru] Saptamsa- Case study-2

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Solai and all friends,

I am sending my studies about your Saptamsa chart. I am attaching your chart as well for others benefic.

Since you have two male children in your Jupiter mahadasa this puzzel would not that hard.Let's see what type of relationships having various 7D s and maha dasa lord Jupiter, with this two issues.

I do not think, that your TOB could go wrong more than 15 mins either side. How ever for my benefic, I check Tarus, Gemini, Cance and Leo as lagna of the 7D.

Let's take Tarus as lagna. Lord of the lagna and MD lord badly placed.Ther is no qualifications to Jupiter to give children in his dasa at all. Even if you go further, by forward counting 1st child must be a male and in maraka place to the 5th, and if you count reverse, the child must be female. So reject Tarus.

I agree on the first part about the placement of lagna lord and dasa lord. I think any planet placed in Pi gives male. So, when we calculate reverse for the Ta (even sign), the fifth house falls in Cp, the lord of Cp is placed in Pi. So, male child. But, dasa and antardasa doesn't suit. Second child also male as the lord of seventh house in reverse falls in Sg in exaltation.

If you take Cancer lagna, counting reverse 1st child must be a female and counting forward 1st child again badly placed in 6th. Other point is even Jupiter qualified here as dasa lord the relationship between Jupiter and lord of the lagna is not very good. According to Cancer lagna Moon is the best planet to qualified as dasa lord.

Here, my doubt is, whether, birth takes place during the dasa of the planet having Argala on the SAPTAMSA LAGNA or SAPTAMSA LAGNESH. As per lesson, it is lagnesh. If it is lagnesh, the planets having primary argala on the Spatamsa lagna lord moon (for Cancer lagna) are, Rahu, Sun and Saturn. If we take lagna, then Jupiter, Mercury, Venus and Moon. So, only in Leo lagna, Jupiter has secondary argala on the saptamsa lagnesh.

Let's see with Leo. Jupiter having no argala on lagna but obstruct argala from Rahu and Sun. Does Sun having papargala on lagna ? No. Sun is the lord of the lagna, and the argala form Sun obstructed by Jupiter. Another point is Kethu is in 5th and lord of the 5th does not show male child either forward or reverse. So reject it two.

If you take Virgo, forward counting 1st child is female and reverse counting 2nd child is female.

The first child is Male in forward counting as the child's lagna lord Saturn placed in Pi. But, the second child is female. Reverse count is agreed.

Now we go for Gemini.

There is no any planets with primary argala on lagna. But Jupiter, Venus and Mercury having unobstructed secondry argala on lagna and jupiter conjoined lord of the lagna.with your age range Jupiter could give birth to children.

Again please check is it Lagna or Lagnesh?

first child is seen from 5th. Lord of the 5th isVenus, conjoined Jupiter (male) and Mercury (female) in odd sign (male.). So first issue is male.

Agreed.

Your first Son born on 9th of July 1992, when the 10th titi and Libra is rising. You were pasing Jupiter MD, Mercury AD.

If the dasa lord is to be calculated from Saptamsa lagna, then Dasa and Antardasa perfectly suit with the Gemini lagna

Paka lagna of the child is Libra. Mercury having very good relationship with paka lagna and 7D. Now check the titi (Vedic date) of child born and lagna of the child. 10th from paka lagna is Cancer and lord of the Cancer, Moon indicate 10th titi clearly. He born in Libra, it is one of your trine house.

Let's check 2nd child. This must be seen from 7th. Lord of the 7th is Jupiter is in 5th libra. Libra already stand for 1st issue and now, we have to change the derection. So Scorpio must be examind.

Here, I am confused. Why should we change the direction? Even if change the direction, how come Scorpio become 7th House?

Lord of the Scorpio Ketu ex. in 7th. shows again male child.

Your second son born on 17.11.97 , when the 3rd titi and Sagittarius sign rising. You were passing Sun antar dasa.

Sun belongs 11th from 5th. His sign was Sagittarius, one of your Kendra and titi was 3rd indicated from Mars. Strength of Mars may be changed the rule here.

I am sorry, I am not familiar with thithi calculations, so I cannot make a comment.

Only Gemini Saptamsa shows here , about your two male children clearly. See ?

So take the Gemini as your Saptamsa for now, unless changed by any learned members.

If you have any doubt, let's see your Navamsa and Derkana in future.

Once , again thanks Mr.Karu. This gives lot of insight into the Saptamsa lesson. I don't think this exercise is to correct my birth time. But, when we alter the time with respect to a divisional chart, we have to see the impact of the change in other charts in order to confirm the change. When, we shift the saptamsa lagna to Gemini, the Navamsa lagna changes from Tarus to Aries.

Here, I am neither has Aries qualities nor the qualities of the Leo, where the lagna lord Mars conjoined the dispositor Sun in Leo. And Leo is fifth from Lagna and must show my real inherent character from that position. I am always quite, soft, fearsome subtle in nature. But, I am firm on my stands, that is clearly shown from the TA lagna where the mars is placed in fourth with Sun. I am 100% sure My Navamsa Lagna cannot be Ar. This information just to confirm our working in my Saptamsa.

To conclude, questions in front of us are.

1. Does the Counting of the child's lagna is based on the Oddity or not?

2. Does the dasa of the child birth is during the dasa of the planet having argala on the Saptamsa lagna or lagnesh?

3.How to calculate the next child's lagna when two children's lagna falls in one sign?

Hare Krishna,

Karu

Looking forward for your answer and guidance from the learned Gurus.

Thanks

Solai Kannan

Karu <heenvarahamihira <varahamihira >Tuesday, August 22, 2000 9:03 PMRe: [sri Guru] Lagna of child-Saptamsa lesson

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Solai,

My comments below.

>Namste Gurus and friends,>>In Saptamsa lesson, Gurudeva has given the rules for the determination of>the sex of children. In that he mentioned:>>"......4.1 For a male nativity, the first child is determined by the lord of>the 5th house from Saptamsa Lagna, whereas for a female nativity, the first>child is determined from the lord of the 9th house from Saptamsa Lagna.>4.2 For a male nativity, subsequent children are determined from the lords>of every 3rd house from the fifth, in direct order, i.e. the second child>7th house lord third child from 9 th house lord and fourth child from 11th>house lord and so on whereas, for a female nativity, subsequent children are>determined from the lords of every 3rd house from the ninth, in reverse>order. i.e. the second child from 7th house lord, third child from 5th lord>and fourth child from 3rd lord and so on....">>Here, it is not mentioned about selecting the order of counting the child's>lagna, based on the odd or even sign of the Saptamsa Lagna.>>Whereas, in Vedic Astrology e-group, for a question Mr.Narasimha and>Mr.Sarat Chander had answered that the counting of the child's lagna will be>depending on the oddity of the sign occupied by the Saptamsa Lagna. Say if>the saptamsa lagna is Cancer, then the lagna of first child will be Pieces>and Jupiter's placement will decide the sex of the child.

You are correct. This is depending on both this factors ie. oddity of the Saptamsa lagna and sex of the native. Generally we have to count ( AS FAR AS MY UNDERSTANDING) forward for male and revers for female. Probably in Prasna we must use oddity of the lagna.

But, this can be modified by few situation. 1st one is occupying Ketu in the lagna. 2nd one COULD BE the placement of the lagna lord. I am still trying to find this.

>My questions:>>1.For female native chart, how will be the order? If the Saptamsa lagna is>in odd the counting will be reverse and if it is in even sign, then direct>order, is it like this?

For female, count in reverse for now. If you failed to find the answer try other options. That is what I do.

>>2.I give below my Saptamsa chart, when the lesson was discussed, I>calculated the lagna for my first son as Sc, 5th from Cancer in direct>order, and because of the exalted Ke placed in Sg. his sex is male. But, if>we calculate by the reverse order, the first child lagna will be Pi. and its>lord Ju is placed in Li (odd sign), with female planets Mer and Ven. As the>conjunction dominates sign in determination of the sex, this shows female.>If I shift my saptamsa lagna to either Ge or Le my first or second sons' sex>varies. Whereas, with direct order my first and second sons' sex is male. I>have only two sons.

I like to study your's for children. Could you plase send birth details of your two sons. Time, Date and TZ, place etc.

Hare Krshna

Karu

>As we are applying this technique to rectify the birth time, can the learned>Gurus help me in this?>>Thanks>Your sisya>>Solai Kannan>>Date of Birth: November 21, 1964>Time of Birth: 1:35:15 pm>Time Zone of Birth: 5:30 East of GMT>Longitude of Birth: 78 E 50>Latitude of Birth: 9 N 23>>+---------------------+>| | | | Rah |>| GL | | | |>| | | Moo | Glk |>| Sat| | | |>| | | | Sun|>|-------------|---------------------------|-------------|>| | | |>| | | |>| | | Asc |>| | | |>| | | |>|-------------| D - 7 |-------------|>| | | |>| | | Mnd |>| | | |>| | | BL|>| | | |>|-------------|---------------------------|-------------|>| | | | |>| | | JupR | |>| Ket | Mar | | |>| | | Ven Me | |>| | | | |>+----------------------+OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.html

August 26, 2000

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,

Namasthe solai, and all.

In fact, I done some mistake by ignore few things. I am doing this again and my comments below. The works I am doing is for my learning. If you find any thing you cannot agree plaese inform and help me. We will never able to learn without doing practicles. You made me read COVA again. Thank you.

The question we having about the counting for children is not big problem. In COVA there is one example ( Chart 52, page 181) with Taurus 7D for a male, but counted in reverse. If we able to do some works, the answer can be found easily. My comments below.

Hare Krishna

Karu

Let's take Tarus as lagna. Lord of the lagna and MD lord badly placed.Ther is no qualifications to Jupiter to give children in his dasa at all. Even if you go further, by forward counting 1st child must be a male and in maraka place to the 5th, and if you count reverse, the child must be female. So reject Tarus.

I agree on the first part about the placement of lagna lord and dasa lord. I think any planet placed in Pi gives male. So, when we calculate reverse for the Ta (even sign), the fifth house falls in Cp, the lord of Cp is placed in Pi. So, male child. But, dasa and antardasa doesn't suit. Second child also male as the lord of seventh house in reverse falls in Sg in exaltation.

Yes, you are correct. Reverse count indicate two male. But TOB must be go back by 30 mins and dasa or antar dasa and lot of other factors not mached. (In fact you would find that Jupiter could qualifed as dasa lord and Mercury/ Sun too qualified as antar dasa lord. But my idea is Taurus impossible)

If you take Cancer lagna, counting reverse 1st child must be a female and counting forward 1st child again badly placed in 6th. Other point is even Jupiter qualified here as dasa lord the relationship between Jupiter and lord of the lagna is not very good. According to Cancer lagna Moon is the best planet to qualified as dasa lord.

Here, my doubt is, whether, birth takes place during the dasa of the planet having Argala on the SAPTAMSA LAGNA or SAPTAMSA LAGNESH. As per lesson, it is lagnesh.

Let's Take as Lagnesh, and I will correct myself.

If it is lagnesh, the planets having primary argala on the Spatamsa lagna lord moon (for Cancer lagna) are, Rahu, Sun and Saturn. If we take lagna, then Jupiter, Mercury, Venus and Moon. So, only in Leo lagna, Jupiter has secondary argala on the saptamsa lagnesh.

AGREED.

Let's see with Leo. Jupiter having no argala on lagna but obstruct argala from Rahu and Sun. Does Sun having papargala on lagna ? No. Sun is the lord of the lagna, and the argala form Sun obstructed by Jupiter. Another point is Kethu is in 5th and lord of the 5th does not show male child either forward or reverse. So reject it two.

IN FACT, forward counting; 1st child Jupiter (male), conjoined Mercury (Male) and Venus (Female) in a odd (Male) sign is MALE and 2nd child lord of the 7th Rahu conjoined Sun is male again and indicating last child. Dasa lord Jupiter having unobstructed argala on lord of the lagna, Sun. Leo is more powerfull than Gemini and Leo too could be Saptamsa lagna.

Why keeping doubt. We will study more about Gemini and Leo to find out this.

If you take Virgo, forward counting 1st child is female and reverse counting 2nd child is female.

The first child is Male in forward counting as the child's lagna lord Saturn placed in Pi. But, the second child is female. Reverse count is agreed.

Agreed

Now we go for Gemini.

There is no any planets with primary argala on lagna. But Jupiter, Venus and Mercury having unobstructed secondry argala on lagna and jupiter conjoined lord of the lagna.with your age range Jupiter could give birth to children.

Again please check is it Lagna or Lagnesh?

" FOR ALL CHILD BIRTH, THE LORD OF THE SAPTAMSA LAGNA HOLDS THE KEY.. " (cova)

first child is seen from 5th. Lord of the 5th isVenus, conjoined Jupiter (male) and Mercury (female) in odd sign (male.). So first issue is male.

Agreed.

Your first Son born on 9th of July 1992, when the 10th titi and Libra is rising. You were pasing Jupiter MD, Mercury AD.

If the dasa lord is to be calculated from Saptamsa lagna, then Dasa and Antardasa perfectly suit with the Gemini lagna

Paka lagna of the child is Libra. Mercury having very good relationship with paka lagna and 7D. Now check the titi (Vedic date) of child born and lagna of the child. 10th from paka lagna is Cancer and lord of the Cancer, Moon indicate 10th titi clearly. He born in Libra, it is one of your trine house.

Let's check 2nd child. This must be seen from 7th. Lord of the 7th is Jupiter is in 5th libra. Libra already stand for 1st issue and now, we have to change the derection. So Scorpio must be examind.

Here, I am confused. Why should we change the direction? Even if change the direction, how come Scorpio become 7th House?

One paka lagna cannot stand for more than one issue. More details in COVA under co-born. Hava you got COVA ?

Lord of the Scorpio Ketu ex. in 7th. shows again male child.

Your second son born on 17.11.97 , when the 3rd titi and Sagittarius sign rising. You were passing Sun antar dasa.

Sun belongs 11th from 5th. His sign was Sagittarius, one of your Kendra and titi was 3rd indicated from Mars. Strength of Mars may be changed the rule here.

I am sorry, I am not familiar with thithi calculations, so I cannot make a comment.

This is RATHS RULE 3

Any thing will take a place or activate 10th from the related house. 10th is karya siddi.For example take your paka lagna of 1st child. This is libra. 10th from libra is (always forward count) Cancer. The birth of child will be on the vedic date (titi) belongs to stronger planet in cancer or lord it self.

In your case Cancer unoccupied and the lord Moon given the birth to the child on 10th titi belongs to Moon.

Titis ruled as follows.

Sun 1,9

Moon 2,10

Mars 3,11

Mercury 4,12

Jupiter 5, 13

Venus 6,14

Saturn 7 full Moon Purnima

Rahu 8 New Moon Amavasya

More Detaild could be found from COVA.

Only Gemini Saptamsa shows here , about your two male children clearly. See ?

So take the Gemini as your Saptamsa for now, unless changed by any learned members.

If you have any doubt, let's see your Navamsa and Derkana in future.

Once , again thanks Mr.Karu. This gives lot of insight into the Saptamsa lesson. I don't think this exercise is to correct my birth time. But, when we alter the time with respect to a divisional chart, we have to see the impact of the change in other charts in order to confirm the change. When, we shift the saptamsa lagna to Gemini, the Navamsa lagna changes from Tarus to Aries.

WE DID NOT CAME TO FINAL CONCLUTION YET. I AM SURE WE WILL. UNTIL THAT STICK IN TO ONLY SAPTAMSA, NOT OTHER VARGA CHARTS.

THERE WAS A NICE DISCUSSION WENT FEW MONTHS BACK, ABOUT THIS NARASIMHA AND SANJAY. I HAVE ALL THIS MAILS AND WE TOO GO FORWARD WITH BLESSING OF LORD JAGANNATH.

Here, I am neither has Aries qualities nor the qualities of the Leo, where the lagna lord Mars conjoined the dispositor Sun in Leo. And Leo is fifth from Lagna and must show my real inherent character from that position. I am always quite, soft, fearsome subtle in nature. But, I am firm on my stands, that is clearly shown from the TA lagna where the mars is placed in fourth with Sun. I am 100% sure My Navamsa Lagna cannot be Ar. This information just to confirm our working in my Saptamsa.

To conclude, questions in front of us are.

1. Does the Counting of the child's lagna is based on the Oddity or not

2. Does the dasa of the child birth is during the dasa of the planet having argala on the Saptamsa lagna or lagnesh?

3.How to calculate the next child's lagna when two children's lagna falls in one sign?

ALL ANSWERS GIVEN.

Hare Krishna,

Karu

Looking forward for your answer and guidance from the learned Gurus.

Thanks

Solai Kannan

Karu <heenvarahamihira <varahamihira >Tuesday, August 22, 2000 9:03 PMRe: [sri Guru] Lagna of child-Saptamsa lesson

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Solai,

My comments below.

>Namste Gurus and friends,>>In Saptamsa lesson, Gurudeva has given the rules for the determination of>the sex of children. In that he mentioned:>> " ......4.1 For a male nativity, the first child is determined by the lord of>the 5th house from Saptamsa Lagna, whereas for a female nativity, the first>child is determined from the lord of the 9th house from Saptamsa Lagna.>4.2 For a male nativity, subsequent children are determined from the lords>of every 3rd house from the fifth, in direct order, i.e. the second child>7th house lord third child from 9 th house lord and fourth child from 11th>house lord and so on whereas, for a female nativity, subsequent children are>determined from the lords of every 3rd house from the ninth, in reverse>order. i.e. the second child from 7th house lord, third child from 5th lord>and fourth child from 3rd lord and so on.... " >>Here, it is not mentioned about selecting the order of counting the child's>lagna, based on the odd or even sign of the Saptamsa Lagna.>>Whereas, in Vedic Astrology e-group, for a question Mr.Narasimha and>Mr.Sarat Chander had answered that the counting of the child's lagna will be>depending on the oddity of the sign occupied by the Saptamsa Lagna. Say if>the saptamsa lagna is Cancer, then the lagna of first child will be Pieces>and Jupiter's placement will decide the sex of the child.

You are correct. This is depending on both this factors ie. oddity of the Saptamsa lagna and sex of the native. Generally we have to count ( AS FAR AS MY UNDERSTANDING) forward for male and revers for female. Probably in Prasna we must use oddity of the lagna.

But, this can be modified by few situation. 1st one is occupying Ketu in the lagna. 2nd one COULD BE the placement of the lagna lord. I am still trying to find this.

>My questions:>>1.For female native chart, how will be the order? If the Saptamsa lagna is>in odd the counting will be reverse and if it is in even sign, then direct>order, is it like this?

For female, count in reverse for now. If you failed to find the answer try other options. That is what I do.

>>2.I give below my Saptamsa chart, when the lesson was discussed, I>calculated the lagna for my first son as Sc, 5th from Cancer in direct>order, and because of the exalted Ke placed in Sg. his sex is male. But, if>we calculate by the reverse order, the first child lagna will be Pi. and its>lord Ju is placed in Li (odd sign), with female planets Mer and Ven. As the>conjunction dominates sign in determination of the sex, this shows female.>If I shift my saptamsa lagna to either Ge or Le my first or second sons' sex>varies. Whereas, with direct order my first and second sons' sex is male. I>have only two sons.

I like to study your's for children. Could you plase send birth details of your two sons. Time, Date and TZ, place etc.

Hare Krshna

Karu

>As we are applying this technique to rectify the birth time, can the learned>Gurus help me in this?>>Thanks>Your sisya>>Solai Kannan>>Date of Birth: November 21, 1964>Time of Birth: 1:35:15 pm>Time Zone of Birth: 5:30 East of GMT>Longitude of Birth: 78 E 50>Latitude of Birth: 9 N 23>>+---------------------+>| | | | Rah |>| GL | | | |>| | | Moo | Glk |>| Sat| | | |>| | | | Sun|>|-------------|---------------------------|-------------|>| | | |>| | | |>| | | Asc |>| | | |>| | | |>|-------------| D - 7 |-------------|>| | | |>| | | Mnd |>| | | |>| | | BL|>| | | |>|-------------|---------------------------|-------------|>| | | | |>| | | JupR | |>| Ket | Mar | | |>| | | Ven Me | |>| | | | |>+----------------------+OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.htmlOM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.html

August 28, 2000

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Solai,

Looks to me you were misunderstand some thing. Why you trying to see the

Dasa lord from paka lagna.? Maha Dasa lord is responsible for all issues and

paka lagna only responsible for said issue.

Once, MD lord qualified by having good relationship with lord of the

Saptamsa, Antar dasa lord will be qualified by having relationship with the

issue.

Plese check and let's go for only Gemini and Leo 7D when you ready.

Hare Krshna,

Karu

Solai Kannan <solai

varahamihira <varahamihira >

Monday, August 28, 2000 11:54 PM

[sri Guru] Saptamsa- Case study-2

>OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH

>JAYA JAGANNATHA

>

>Dear Gurus and friends,

>

>This exchange of mails between me and Mr.Karu is started to know whether

the

>children's lagna counting depends on oddity or not?

>

>In the Saptamsa lesson Pt.Sanjay mentioned that it should be direct order

>and nothing is mentioned about oddity. But, here, we are considering my

>chart as reference and analyse various possibilities with oddity is

counted

>.We are utilising this opportunity to study the Saptamsa lesson in depth.

>

>As we have not concluded on anything, I am again summing up the discussion

>and request the learned members to correct us.

>---------------------

>Data:

>My Saptamsa lagna for the given time is Cancer.

>Moon in Taurus, Rahu and Sun in Gemini, Jupiter, Mercury, Venus are in

>Libra, Mars in Scorpio, Ketu in Sagittarius, Saturn in Pisces.

>Anyhow, my birth data and Saptamsa chart at the bottom.

>DOB of my first son: 9th July 1992 - Jupiter-Mercury dasa was running.

>DOB of my second son: 17th November 1997 - Jupiter-Sun dasa was running.

>---------------------

>Take Taurus as Saptamsa Lagna:

>

>Pakalagna is Libra - Planets having argala on the Pakalagna is Mars. Only

>Mars qualifies to give child in its dasa.

>Counting of Children's lagna: As Ta is even sign, counting in reverse.

>1st Son : 5th sign from Ta in reverse- Cp. - Lord Saturn is in Pi. - So,

>Male child.

>Possible andardasas : Saturn, Jupiter, Sun (lord of 8th house from the

>Child's lagna)

>2nd Son : 7th sign from Ta in reverse- Sc. - Lord Ketu is in Exaltation -

>So, Male child.

>Possible andardasas: Ketu, Jupiter, Mars, Saturn & Mercury (lords of 3rd

and

>8th houses from child's lagna respectively)

>

>Conclusion: Sex of the children are OK. But, dasa and andardasa lords are

>not matching.

>

>Take Gemini as Saptamsa Lagna:

>

>Pakalagna is Libra - Planets having argala on the Pakalagna is Mars. Only

>Mars qualifies to give child in its dasa.

>Counting of Children's lagna: As Ge is odd sign, counting is in direct

>order.

>1st Son : 5th sign from Ge- Li. - Lord Venus is in Li. Male sign with Male

>Jupiter and female Mercury - So, Male child.

>Possible andardasas : Venus , Jupiter (Lord of 3rd from the child's lagna)

>2nd Son : 7th sign from Ge.- Sg. - Lord Jupiter is in Li. As two children

>cannot have same paka lagna, next sign Scorpio is considered as lagna. Lord

>Ketu in Exaltation - So, Male child.

>Possible andardasas: Ketu, Jupiter, Mars, Saturn & Mercury (lords of 3rd

and

>8th houses from child's lagna respectively)

>

>Conclusion : Sex of the children are OK. But, dasa and andardasa lords are

>not matching

>

>Take Cancer as Saptamsa lagna:

>

>Pakalagna is Taurus - Planets having argala on the Pakalagna are Rahu, Sun

>and Saturn. Jupiter is not having argala on Pakalagna.

>Counting of Children's lagna: As Cn is even sign, counting in reverse.

>1st Son : 5th sign from Cn in reverse- Pi. - Lord Jupiter is in Li. Male

>sign with female Mercury and female Venus - So, female child.

>Possible andardasas : Jupiter,Venus

>2nd Son : 7th sign from Cn in reverse- Cp. - Lord Saturn is in Pi - So,

Male

>child.

>Possible andardasas: Saturn, Jupiter, Sun (lord of 8th house from the

>Child's lagna)

>

>Conclusion: Sex of 1st child is not OK, but second child is OK. But, only

>andardasa of 2nd son is matching and rests are not matching.

>

>Take Leo as Saptamsa lagna:

>

>Pakalagna is Gemini - There is no primary argala on Pakalagna, Jupiter,

>Mercury, Venus have secondary argala on the Pakalagna.

>Counting of Children's lagna: As Le is odd sign, counting is in direct

>order.

>1st Son : 5th sign from Le- Sg. - Lord Jupiter is in Li. Male sign with

>female Mercury and female Venus- So, female child.

>Possible andardasas : Jupiter, Venus Saturn & Moon (Lords of 3rd and 8th

>houses from child's lagna respectively)

>2nd Son : 7th sign from Le.- Aq. - Lord Saturn is in Pi - So, Male child.

>Possible andardasas: Saturn, Jupiter, Mars & Mercury (lords of 3rd and 8th

>houses from child's lagna respectively)

>

>Conclusion: Sex of 1st child is not OK, but second child is OK. But, dasa

is

>matching for both sons, but andardasa is not matching.

>

>Take Virgo as Saptamsa lagna:

>

>Pakalagna is Libra - Planets having argala on the Pakalagna is Mars. Only

>Mars qualifies to give child in its dasa.

>Counting of Children's lagna: As Vi is even sign, counting in reverse.

>1st Son : 5th sign from Vi in reverse- Ta. - Lord Venus is in Li. Male sign

>with Male Jupiter and female Mercury - So, Male child.

>Possible andardasas : Venus, Moon & Jupiter (lords of 3rd and 8th houses

>from child's lagna respectively)

>2nd Son : 7th sign from Vi in reverse- Pi. - Lord Jupiter is in Li. As two

>children cannot have same paka lagna, next sign Scorpio is considerd as

>lagna. Lord Ketu in Exaltation - So, Male child.

>Possible antardasas: Ketu, Jupiter, Mars, Saturn & Mercury (lords of 3rd

>and 8th houses from child's lagna respectively)

>

>Conclusion: Sex of children are OK. But, only dasa & andardasa are not

>matching.

>

>Foot note: Honestly, I could not conclude from this. In cases of Ge, Cn, Le

> & Vi, the thithi of 1st son is matching, but, for second son thithi is not

>matching. I request the learned members to help this out. OR am I somewhere

>wrong?

>

>Thanks

>Solai Kannan

>

>Birth Data & Chart

>

>Date of Birth: November 21, 1964

>Time of Birth: 1:35:15 pm

>Time Zone of Birth: 5:30 East of GMT

>Longitude of Birth: 78 E 50

>Latitude of Birth: 9 N 23

>

>+----------------------+

>| | | | Rah |

>| GL | | | |

>| | | Moo | Glk |

>| Sat | | | |

>| | | | Sun |

>|-------------|---------------------------|---------------|

>| | | |

>| | | Asc |

>| | | |

>|-------------| D - 7 |---------------|

>| | | |

>| | | Mnd |

>| | | |

>| | | BL |

>| | | |

>|-------------|---------------------------|---------------|

>| | | | |

>| | | JupR | |

>| Ket | Mar | Mer | |

>| | | Ven | |

>| | | | |

>+----------------------+

>

>OM TAT SAT

>Archive: varahamihira

>Info: varahamihira/info.html

>

August 29, 2000

Jaya Jagannath!

Dear Solai,

Why do you take Paka Lagna? it is taken only if there is parivarthan yoga

with lagnesh.

> Data:

> My Saptamsa lagna for the given time is Cancer.

> Moon in Taurus, Rahu and Sun in Gemini, Jupiter, Mercury, Venus are in

> Libra, Mars in Scorpio, Ketu in Sagittarius, Saturn in Pisces.

> Anyhow, my birth data and Saptamsa chart at the bottom.

> DOB of my first son: 9th July 1992 - Jupiter-Mercury dasa was running.

> DOB of my second son: 17th November 1997 - Jupiter-Sun dasa was running.

>

We should take reverse count. So we find pisces in 9th house, IT is lorded by

Guru. Guru is placed in 4th house with mercury/venus in libra(frutiful sign)

This should normally give more female influences, however, guru is male and

libra is male frutiful sign, so the 1st child could be male.

Guru is aspecting(rashi dristi) saptamsa lagnesh moon, and has argala over

saptamsa lagna, so guru mahadasha is qualified to give children. Mercury is with

9th house lord guru, so its antaradasha is qualified to give child birth.

Second son.

We see it from 7th house. ITs lord is saturn placed in pisces(frutiful male

sign) so it gives son.Sun has argala over 7th house lord saturn. Sun is never

malefic for children. So its antardasa is qualified to give birth to children.

3rd issue, would be seen from 5th house where we have, both mars/ketu as lords.

Mars is in own sign scoprio, so we take ketu as lord. IT is in saggitarius in

6th house which is maraka for male chart. Due to ketu influence, the birth of

3rd son is unlikely.

Best wishes,

Zoran

August 29, 2000

OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH

JAYA JAGANNATHA

Namaste Mr.Karu,

I took the pakalagna of the Saptamsa lagna,( I am sorry I didn't mention it as Saptamsa Pakalagna) i.e, to see the Mahadasa lord, we should find out the planets having argala on the Saptamsa lagnesh. Instead of mentioning as argala on the Saptamsa lagnesh, for easy reference I mentioned in the mail as "planets having argala on the Pakalagna ". Both are same. But, please read it as Pakalagna of Saptamsa lagna.

Thanks

Solai

Karu [heen]Monday, August 28, 2000 11:21 PMvarahamihira Subject: Re: [sri Guru] Saptamsa- Case study-2Jaya Jaya Jagannath,Dear Solai,Looks to me you were misunderstand some thing. Why you trying to see theDasa lord from paka lagna.? Maha Dasa lord is responsible for all issues andpaka lagna only responsible for said issue.Once, MD lord qualified by having good relationship with lord of theSaptamsa, Antar dasa lord will be qualified by having relationship with theissue.Plese check and let's go for only Gemini and Leo 7D when you ready.Hare Krshna,KaruSolai Kannan <solaivarahamihira <varahamihira >Monday, August 28, 2000 11:54 PM[sri Guru] Saptamsa- Case study-2>OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH>JAYA JAGANNATHA>>Dear Gurus and friends,>>This exchange of mails between me and Mr.Karu is started to know whetherthe>children's lagna counting depends on oddity or not?>>In the Saptamsa lesson Pt.Sanjay mentioned that it should be direct order>and nothing is mentioned about oddity. But, here, we are considering my>chart as reference and analyse various possibilities with oddity iscounted>.We are utilising this opportunity to study the Saptamsa lesson in depth.>>As we have not concluded on anything, I am again summing up the discussion>and request the learned members to correct us.>--------------------->Data:>My Saptamsa lagna for the given time is Cancer.>Moon in Taurus, Rahu and Sun in Gemini, Jupiter, Mercury, Venus are in>Libra, Mars in Scorpio, Ketu in Sagittarius, Saturn in Pisces.>Anyhow, my birth data and Saptamsa chart at the bottom.>DOB of my first son: 9th July 1992 - Jupiter-Mercury dasa was running.>DOB of my second son: 17th November 1997 - Jupiter-Sun dasa was running.>--------------------->Take Taurus as Saptamsa Lagna:>>Pakalagna is Libra - Planets having argala on the Pakalagna is Mars. Only>Mars qualifies to give child in its dasa.>Counting of Children's lagna: As Ta is even sign, counting in reverse.>1st Son : 5th sign from Ta in reverse- Cp. - Lord Saturn is in Pi. - So,>Male child.>Possible andardasas : Saturn, Jupiter, Sun (lord of 8th house from the>Child's lagna)>2nd Son : 7th sign from Ta in reverse- Sc. - Lord Ketu is in Exaltation ->So, Male child.>Possible andardasas: Ketu, Jupiter, Mars, Saturn & Mercury (lords of 3rdand>8th houses from child's lagna respectively)>>Conclusion: Sex of the children are OK. But, dasa and andardasa lords are>not matching.>>Take Gemini as Saptamsa Lagna:>>Pakalagna is Libra - Planets having argala on the Pakalagna is Mars. Only>Mars qualifies to give child in its dasa.>Counting of Children's lagna: As Ge is odd sign, counting is in direct>order.>1st Son : 5th sign from Ge- Li. - Lord Venus is in Li. Male sign with Male>Jupiter and female Mercury - So, Male child.>Possible andardasas : Venus , Jupiter (Lord of 3rd from the child's lagna)>2nd Son : 7th sign from Ge.- Sg. - Lord Jupiter is in Li. As two children>cannot have same paka lagna, next sign Scorpio is considered as lagna. Lord>Ketu in Exaltation - So, Male child.>Possible andardasas: Ketu, Jupiter, Mars, Saturn & Mercury (lords of 3rdand>8th houses from child's lagna respectively)>>Conclusion : Sex of the children are OK. But, dasa and andardasa lords are>not matching>>Take Cancer as Saptamsa lagna:>>Pakalagna is Taurus - Planets having argala on the Pakalagna are Rahu, Sun>and Saturn. Jupiter is not having argala on Pakalagna.>Counting of Children's lagna: As Cn is even sign, counting in reverse.>1st Son : 5th sign from Cn in reverse- Pi. - Lord Jupiter is in Li. Male>sign with female Mercury and female Venus - So, female child.>Possible andardasas : Jupiter,Venus>2nd Son : 7th sign from Cn in reverse- Cp. - Lord Saturn is in Pi - So,Male>child.>Possible andardasas: Saturn, Jupiter, Sun (lord of 8th house from the>Child's lagna)>>Conclusion: Sex of 1st child is not OK, but second child is OK. But, only>andardasa of 2nd son is matching and rests are not matching.>>Take Leo as Saptamsa lagna:>>Pakalagna is Gemini - There is no primary argala on Pakalagna, Jupiter,>Mercury, Venus have secondary argala on the Pakalagna.>Counting of Children's lagna: As Le is odd sign, counting is in direct>order.>1st Son : 5th sign from Le- Sg. - Lord Jupiter is in Li. Male sign with>female Mercury and female Venus- So, female child.>Possible andardasas : Jupiter, Venus Saturn & Moon (Lords of 3rd and 8th>houses from child's lagna respectively)>2nd Son : 7th sign from Le.- Aq. - Lord Saturn is in Pi - So, Male child.>Possible andardasas: Saturn, Jupiter, Mars & Mercury (lords of 3rd and 8th>houses from child's lagna respectively)>>Conclusion: Sex of 1st child is not OK, but second child is OK. But, dasais>matching for both sons, but andardasa is not matching.>>Take Virgo as Saptamsa lagna:>>Pakalagna is Libra - Planets having argala on the Pakalagna is Mars. Only>Mars qualifies to give child in its dasa.>Counting of Children's lagna: As Vi is even sign, counting in reverse.>1st Son : 5th sign from Vi in reverse- Ta. - Lord Venus is in Li. Male sign>with Male Jupiter and female Mercury - So, Male child.>Possible andardasas : Venus, Moon & Jupiter (lords of 3rd and 8th houses>from child's lagna respectively)>2nd Son : 7th sign from Vi in reverse- Pi. - Lord Jupiter is in Li. As two>children cannot have same paka lagna, next sign Scorpio is considerd as>lagna. Lord Ketu in Exaltation - So, Male child.>Possible antardasas: Ketu, Jupiter, Mars, Saturn & Mercury (lords of 3rd>and 8th houses from child's lagna respectively)>>Conclusion: Sex of children are OK. But, only dasa & andardasa are not>matching.>>Foot note: Honestly, I could not conclude from this. In cases of Ge, Cn, Le> & Vi, the thithi of 1st son is matching, but, for second son thithi is not>matching. I request the learned members to help this out. OR am I somewhere>wrong?>>Thanks>Solai Kannan>>Birth Data & Chart>>Date of Birth: November 21, 1964>Time of Birth: 1:35:15 pm>Time Zone of Birth: 5:30 East of GMT>Longitude of Birth: 78 E 50>Latitude of Birth: 9 N 23>>+----------------------+>| | | | Rah |>| GL | | | |>| | | Moo | Glk |>| Sat | | | |>| | | | Sun |>|-------------|---------------------------|---------------|>| | | |>| | | |>| | | Asc |>| | | |>| | | |>|-------------| D - 7 |---------------|>| | | |>| | | Mnd |>| | | |>| | | BL |>| | | |>|-------------|---------------------------|---------------|>| | | | |>| | | JupR | |>| Ket | Mar | Mer | |>| | | Ven | |>| | | | |>+----------------------+>>>>>OM TAT SAT>Archive: varahamihira>Info: varahamihira/info.html>>OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.html

August 29, 2000

Hare Rama Krishna,

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Solai and all friends,

My comments below. I have select only Gemini and Leo yet and in fact I am looking for others comments as well.>Take Gemini as Saptamsa Lagna:>Pakalagna is Libra - Planets having argala on the Pakalagna is Mars. Only>Mars qualifies to give child in its dasa.

It is true that lesson told that the ARGALA relationship must be consider. But dasa lord could be any planet having strong relationship with 7D. In this chart Jupiter, Mercury and Venus having strong relationship with Lagna and the lord of the lagna. Also chara putra karaka in the lagna. I beleive Jupiter is qualified here to become a Maha dasa lord to have children.

>Counting of Children's lagna: As Ge is odd sign, counting is in direct>order.>1st Son : 5th sign from Ge- Li. - Lord Venus is in Li. Male sign with Male>Jupiter and female Mercury - So, Male child.>Possible andardasas : Venus , Jupiter (Lord of 3rd from the child's lagna)

Mercury too qualified. Mercury having strong relationship with paka lagna of the child. antar dasa could be a planet in a trine to the paka lagna or 3rd or 8th to the 5th.

>2nd Son : 7th sign from Ge.- Sg. - Lord Jupiter is in Li. As two children>cannot have same paka lagna, next sign Scorpio is considered as lagna. Lord>Ketu in Exaltation - So, Male child.>Possible andardasas: Ketu, Jupiter, Mars, Saturn & Mercury (lords of 3rd and>8th houses from child's lagna respectively)

1.According to my understandings this is wrong. What you mean by lord of the 3rd and 8th house.?

2. According to my understanding the 2nd child could be born in Ketu, Mars, Sun (trine to paka lagna), Jupiter (dispositer), Saturn, sun (lord of the 3rd or 8th to the 5th) or COULD BE LORD OF THE 9TH OR 5TH. (before ask me why, please try to answer above question)

How ever Sun have qualification here as antar dasa lord.

>Conclusion : Sex of the children are OK. But, dasa and andardasa lords are>not matching

It is maching.

>Take Leo as Saptamsa lagna:>Pakalagna is Gemini - There is no primary argala on Pakalagna, Jupiter,>Mercury, Venus have secondary argala on the Pakalagna.>Counting of Children's lagna: As Le is odd sign, counting is in direct>order.>1st Son : 5th sign from Le- Sg. - Lord Jupiter is in Li. Male sign with>female Mercury and female Venus- So, female child.

Gurudeva saying in COVA " ..Saturn and Mercury are eunuch planets, but I have found them to indicate female and male children respectively.. "

So first child is Male.

>Possible andardasas : Jupiter, Venus Saturn & Moon (Lords of 3rd and 8th>houses from child's lagna respectively)

As explained above, Mercury too qualified.

>2nd Son : 7th sign from Le.- Aq. - Lord Saturn is in Pi - So, Male child.>Possible andardasas: Saturn, Jupiter, Mars & Mercury (lords of 3rd and 8th>houses from child's lagna respectively)

Lord of the 7th house is Rahu, conjoied Sun indicate male child again. Sun is in trine to paka laga and again Sun qualified as AD lord.>>Conclusion: Sex of 1st child is not OK, but second child is OK. But, dasa is>matching for both sons, but andardasa is not matching.>Foot note: Honestly, I could not conclude from this. In cases of Ge, Cn, Le> & Vi, the thithi of 1st son is matching, but, for second son thithi is not>matching. I request the learned members to help this out. OR am I somewhere>wrong?

Maha dasa ,Antar Dasa, Janma lagna and Thihi are very clear according to Geminai.

Only thithi of the 2nd child and Jnama rasi of the 2nd child not clear according to Leo Saptamsa.

How ever before go further I select Leo, but waiting for your comments. We will go together.

In fact, others comments are much appriciated, if we missed anything here.

Hare Krishna,

Karu

August 29, 2000

OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH

JAYA JAGANNATHA

Dear Mr.Karu,

My other comments are below. You have stretched the rules about finding the dasa and antardasa lords. If we stretch the rules, then Ta, Ge, Cn, Le, and Vi are all gives the same result, except, Ta which is not giving the correct thithi for the first child. So, this stretching will not give clear result. And we cannot conclude on fixing the lagna. This way even almost all the signs will show the sex and dasa of my children.

In fact when you say Mercury can be considered as Male, then Cancer is the best sign to qualify as the Saptamsa Lagna.

Because, Jupiter is aspecting the Saptamsa lagna (Cancer), it has primary argala on the lagna and it is aspecting the Saptamsa lagna lord moon by rasi dhrishti and it is conjoined with the dispositer of lagna lord. So, having strong relationship with Saptamsa lagna and lagna lord, it qualifies as the Maha dasa lord.

1st son is to be seen from the Pi, the lord is in Libra, male sign, with male Mercury and female Venus. So, Male child and Mercury conjoined with the child's lagna lord Jupiter and qualify to become the andardasa lord. 10th lord from child's paka lagna Libra is Moon and it gives 10th thithi.

2nd son is to be seen from Cp, the lord Saturn is placed in Pi, so male child. Lord of 8th from the child's lagna (for this explanation is given below) is Sun, which qualifies to become the andardasa lord. Thithi is not matching like other optional lagnas of Ge and Le.

So, I am not in a position to accept the stretching of the rule. If we stretch, it applies to all signs. If at the end I accept the stretching, then cancer will be the Saptamsa lagna and there is no need to correct the time. If the stretching the rule is convinced, then counting based on oddity applies very well here.

Learned members please comment.

Thanks

Solai Kannan

Karu [heen]Tuesday, August 29, 2000 12:52 PMvarahamihira Subject: Re: [sri Guru] Saptamsa- Case study-2

Hare Rama Krishna,

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Solai and all friends,

My comments below. I have select only Gemini and Leo yet and in fact I am looking for others comments as well.>Take Gemini as Saptamsa Lagna:>Pakalagna is Libra - Planets having argala on the Pakalagna is Mars. Only>Mars qualifies to give child in its dasa.

It is true that lesson told that the ARGALA relationship must be consider. But dasa lord could be any planet having strong relationship with 7D. In this chart Jupiter, Mercury and Venus having strong relationship with Lagna and the lord of the lagna. Also chara putra karaka in the lagna. I beleive Jupiter is qualified here to become a Maha dasa lord to have children.

As I mentioned above, if we stretch this rule, then almost all signs show the result correctly. >Counting of Children's lagna: As Ge is odd sign, counting is in direct>order.>1st Son : 5th sign from Ge- Li. - Lord Venus is in Li. Male sign with Male>Jupiter and female Mercury - So, Male child.>Possible andardasas : Venus , Jupiter (Lord of 3rd from the child's lagna)

Mercury too qualified. Mercury having strong relationship with paka lagna of the child. antar dasa could be a planet in a trine to the paka lagna or 3rd or 8th to the 5th.

>2nd Son : 7th sign from Ge.- Sg. - Lord Jupiter is in Li. As two children>cannot have same paka lagna, next sign Scorpio is considered as lagna. Lord>Ketu in Exaltation - So, Male child.>Possible andardasas: Ketu, Jupiter, Mars, Saturn & Mercury (lords of 3rd and>8th houses from child's lagna respectively)

1.According to my understandings this is wrong. What you mean by lord of the 3rd and 8th house.?

I give the quote from the Saptamsa lesson,

"......(b) Individual children are predicted during the antardasa of the lord of the child, its depositor or the lords of the 3rd/8th from the Lagna (as mentioned earlier)...."

As per this I mentioned above.

2. According to my understanding the 2nd child could be born in Ketu, Mars, Sun (trine to paka lagna), Jupiter (dispositer), Saturn, sun (lord of the 3rd or 8th to the 5th) or COULD BE LORD OF THE 9TH OR 5TH. (before ask me why, please try to answer above question)

How ever Sun have qualification here as antar dasa lord.

>Conclusion : Sex of the children are OK. But, dasa and andardasa lords are>not matching

It is maching.

>Take Leo as Saptamsa lagna:>Pakalagna is Gemini - There is no primary argala on Pakalagna, Jupiter,>Mercury, Venus have secondary argala on the Pakalagna.>Counting of Children's lagna: As Le is odd sign, counting is in direct>order.>1st Son : 5th sign from Le- Sg. - Lord Jupiter is in Li. Male sign with>female Mercury and female Venus- So, female child.

Gurudeva saying in COVA "..Saturn and Mercury are eunuch planets, but I have found them to indicate female and male children respectively.."

So first child is Male.

>Possible andardasas : Jupiter, Venus Saturn & Moon (Lords of 3rd and 8th>houses from child's lagna respectively)

As explained above, Mercury too qualified.

>2nd Son : 7th sign from Le.- Aq. - Lord Saturn is in Pi - So, Male child.>Possible andardasas: Saturn, Jupiter, Mars & Mercury (lords of 3rd and 8th>houses from child's lagna respectively)

Lord of the 7th house is Rahu, conjoied Sun indicate male child again. Sun is in trine to paka laga and again Sun qualified as AD lord.>>Conclusion: Sex of 1st child is not OK, but second child is OK. But, dasa is>matching for both sons, but andardasa is not matching.>Foot note: Honestly, I could not conclude from this. In cases of Ge, Cn, Le> & Vi, the thithi of 1st son is matching, but, for second son thithi is not>matching. I request the learned members to help this out. OR am I somewhere>wrong?

Maha dasa ,Antar Dasa, Janma lagna and Thihi are very clear according to Geminai.

For Second child the thithi will not suit. 10th from pakalagna, Sg is Vi and its lord Mercury signifies 4th & 12th thithis.

Only thithi of the 2nd child and Jnama rasi of the 2nd child not clear according to Leo Saptamsa.

How ever before go further I select Leo, but waiting for your comments. We will go together.

In fact, others comments are much appriciated, if we missed anything here.

Hare Krishna,

Karu

It is nice having this exercise.

Thanks

Solai Kannan OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.html

August 29, 2000

OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH

JAYA JAGANNATHA

Namaste Mr.Zoran,

Many thanks for looking at this matter and for your detailed reply.

My comments are below

Thanks

Your sisya

Solai Kannan

Zoran Radosavljevic [ahimsa]Tuesday, August 29, 2000 6:46 AMvarahamihira Subject: Re: [sri Guru] Saptamsa- Case study-2

Jaya Jagannath!Dear Solai,Why do you take Paka Lagna? it is taken only if there is parivarthan yogawith lagnesh.

As I mentioned in my previous mail, it is Paka Lagna of the Saptamsa chart. As per the Saptamsa lesson, the dasa lord must have argala on the Saptamsa lagnesh. So, for easy reference I mentioned argala on the pakalagna, instead of argala on the lagnesh. I think both are same. > Data:> My Saptamsa lagna for the given time is Cancer.> Moon in Taurus, Rahu and Sun in Gemini, Jupiter, Mercury, Venus are in> Libra, Mars in Scorpio, Ketu in Sagittarius, Saturn in Pisces.> Anyhow, my birth data and Saptamsa chart at the bottom.> DOB of my first son: 9th July 1992 - Jupiter-Mercury dasa was running.> DOB of my second son: 17th November 1997 - Jupiter-Sun dasa was running.>We should take reverse count. So we find pisces in 9th house, IT is lorded byGuru. Guru is placed in 4th house with mercury/venus in libra(frutiful sign)This should normally give more female influences, however, guru

This is where we need the clarification. In the lesson it is not mentioned about the child's lagnesh to be considered for the sex of the child. Plus, the conjunction dominates the sign.

Let me put it in this way. When we are trying to match the already born child with the chart, we say male Guru and Male sign. But, if we are predicting, we will predict female, because of the conjunction of female planets. However, Mr.Karu mentioned that Mercury can be considered as Male at times. So, here it is not making any difference. What I concerned about considering the lagnesh for the child's sex determination. Is it correct or not?

is male and libra is male frutiful sign, so the 1st child could be male.Guru is aspecting(rashi dristi) saptamsa lagnesh moon, and has argala oversaptamsa lagna, so guru mahadasha is qualified to give children.

Again, as per lesson, to find out the dasa lord,we should consider the planets having argala on the Saptamsa lagnesh. I know that there must be exceptions or additional rules, because, when there are 5 or 6 planets conjoined at one sign, then planets having argala on lagnesh will be less in number or may be no argala at all. But, those people are having children, so there must be another rule to determine the dasa lord. Then, we want to know the specific rule or exceptions. Shall we consider the planet having argala or dhrishti on the Saptamsa lagna and lagnesh to determine the dasa lord? Or should we see the planet having strong influence on the lagna or lagnesh?

Mercury is with9th house lord guru, so its antaradasha is qualified to give child birth.

Again, here also we need clear guidelines on finding the antardasa lord. As per lesson, it is the child's lagna lord, its dispositor or lords of 3rd and 8th house from the child's lagna. Is there any additional rules or exceptions to this rule? Second son.We see it from 7th house. ITs lord is saturn placed in pisces(frutiful malesign) so it gives son.Sun has argala over 7th house lord saturn. Sun is nevermalefic for children. So its antardasa is qualified to give birth to children.3rd issue, would be seen from 5th house where we have, both mars/ketu as lords.Mars is in own sign scoprio, so we take ketu as lord. IT is in saggitarius in6th house which is maraka for male chart. Due to ketu influence, the birth of3rd son is unlikely.

I think this is a valid point.

What we require is when we stretch the rules or when there is no fixed or concrete rule, then correcting birth time will be questionable. As I mentioned in my earlier mail, if we apply the additonal rules applied by you and Mr.Karu, then almost all signs indicate two

sons during the dasa of Jupiter and andardasa of Mercury and Sun.

We want you to shed more light on this.

Best wishes,Zoran

Thanks

Your sisya

Solai Kannan OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.html

August 30, 2000

Dear Solai,

> This is where we need the clarification. In the lesson it is

> not mentioned about the child's lagnesh to be considered for

> the sex of the child. Plus, the conjunction dominates the

> sign. Let me put it in this way. When we are trying to match

> the already born child with the chart, we say male Guru and

> Male sign. But, if we are predicting, we will predict

> female, because of the conjunction of female planets.

> However, Mr.Karu mentioned that Mercury can be considered as

> Male at times. So, here it is not making any difference.

> What I concerned about considering the lagnesh for the

> child's sex determination. Is it correct or not?

> ZORAN:

> Yes, but mercury is en eunuh planet so it cannot strongly

> overweight the

> influence. Instaed you have guru(male),venus female, in

> libra(male), and a

> 9th house holds pisces so male infuence dominate.Libra,

> pisces, and cancer

> are very fruitful male sign, so they very strongly influence

> the sex. You are right that conjunction dominates, however,

> there are always excepetions, and I think I have seen

> Sanjay, stretched the rules a few times. We should always

> follow logic.For example, you may have a neecha mangal in

> cancer, giving son, despite of neecha planet giving a female

> child. This is due to influence of cancer, a very fruitful

> male sign.

> Again, as per lesson, to find out the dasa lord,we should

> consider the planets having argala on the Saptamsa lagnesh.

> I know that there must be exceptions or additional rules,

> because, when there are 5 or 6 planets conjoined at one

> sign, then planets having argala on lagnesh will be less in

> number or may be no argala at all. But, those people are

> having children, so there must be another rule to determine

> the dasa lord. Then, we want to know the specific rule or

> exceptions. Shall we consider the planet having argala or

> dhrishti on the Saptamsa lagna and lagnesh to determine the

> dasa lord? Or should we see the planet having strong

> influence on the lagna or lagnesh

> ZORAN:

> A graha having either argala or dristi over lagna/lagna

> saptamsa lord gives children in its mahadasha. You may have

> seen that in Sanjay's email or his books.Again, here also we

> need clear guidelines on finding the antardasa lord. As per

> lesson, it is the child's lagna lord, its dispositor or

> lords of 3rd and 8th house from the child's lagna. Is there

> any additional rules or exceptions to this rule

> ZORAN:

> THE RULE IS THAT PLANETS ASSOCIATED WITH LORD OF THE CHILD

> GIVE CHILDBIRTH IN THEIR ANTARDASA.

> BY ASSOCIATED IT MEANS DRISTI/YUTI/ARGALA.What we require is

> when we stretch the rules or when there is no fixed or

> concrete rule, then correcting birth time will be

> questionable. As I mentioned in my earlier mail, if we apply

> the additonal rules applied by you and Mr.Karu, then almost

> all signs indicate two sons during the dasa of Jupiter and

> andardasa of Mercury and Sun.

> ZORAN: I REMEMBER A CASE WHEN LORD OF A CHILD INDICATED

> FEMALE BY STANDARD RULES. HOWEVER IT WAS A MALE.

> I COMMENTED ON THE RASHI DRISTI OF DEBILITATED MARS AND

> EXALTED JUPITER OVER LORD OF A CHILD. AND SANJAYJI

> COMMENTED IT WAS CORRECT. SO WE HAVE BASIC RULES, AND

> INTELLIGENT APPROACH. WE ACITALLY HAVE TO SEE ALL INFLUENCES

> AND TAKE INTO ACCOUNT VERY STRONG GRAHAS.

> BEST WISHES,

> ZORAN

>

August 30, 2000

Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Solai,

We should take reverse count. So we find pisces in 9th house, IT is lorded byGuru. Guru is placed in 4th house with mercury/venus in libra(frutiful sign)This should normally give more female influences, however, guru

This is where we need the clarification. In the lesson it is not mentioned about the child's lagnesh to be considered for the sex of the child. Plus, the conjunction dominates the sign.

Let me put it in this way. When we are trying to match the already born child with the chart, we say male Guru and Male sign. But, if we are predicting, we will predict female, because of the conjunction of female planets. However, Mr.Karu mentioned that Mercury can be considered as Male at times. So, here it is not making any difference. What I concerned about considering the lagnesh for the child's sex determination. Is it correct or not?

We must look at lord of the issue too. That is why when the lord is no conjoined, no debiliated, no exaulted sex is indicate by the lord it self.

Mercury indicate male. It is not my rule but taken from COVA.

is male and libra is male frutiful sign, so the 1st child could be male.Guru is aspecting(rashi dristi) saptamsa lagnesh moon, and has argala oversaptamsa lagna, so guru mahadasha is qualified to give children.

Again, as per lesson, to find out the dasa lord,we should consider the planets having argala on the Saptamsa lagnesh. I know that there must be exceptions or additional rules, because, when there are 5 or 6 planets conjoined at one sign, then planets having argala on lagnesh will be less in number or may be no argala at all. But, those people are having children, so there must be another rule to determine the dasa lord. Then, we want to know the specific rule or exceptions. Shall we consider the planet having argala or dhrishti on the Saptamsa lagna and lagnesh to determine the dasa lord? Or should we see the planet having strong influence on the lagna or lagnesh?

Mercury is with9th house lord guru, so its antaradasha is qualified to give child birth.

Again, here also we need clear guidelines on finding the antardasa lord. As per lesson, it is the child's lagna lord, its dispositor or lords of 3rd and 8th house from the child's lagna. Is there any additional rules or exceptions to this rule?

Antar Dasa lord could be a planet in a trine to issue. This is basic rule and in COVA.

Thanks,

Karu

August 30, 2000

OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH

JAYA JAGANNATHA

Namaste Mr.Karu,

True, I am handicapped without COVA, I hope I will get it soon. We will go over this exercise again once I get the COVA.

Thanks for the feedback Mr.Karu.

Solai Kannan

Karu [heen]Wednesday, August 30, 2000 5:32 AMvarahamihira Subject: Re: [sri Guru] Saptamsa- Case study-2

My other comments are below. You have stretched the rules about finding the dasa and antardasa lords. If we stretch the rules, then Ta, Ge, Cn, Le, and Vi are all gives the same result, except, Ta which is not giving the correct thithi for the first child. So, this stretching will not give clear result. And we cannot conclude on fixing the lagna. This way even almost all the signs will show the sex and dasa of my children.

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Solai,

There is no rule streched. Only thing I am quating rules extracted from COVA too while you read only lesson.

Taurus and Virgo out of the discution. (please check again) So we will speak about Gemini, Cancer and Leo.

followingt part extracted from COVA.

.......the anthar dasa lord should be seen from the trines to the lord of the issue or its 7th or 12th house or strong argala....

Please forgive me, i am adding some thing for your confution. But, what you think about this. I will definetly clear this for you later, after you try.

Thanks,

Hare Krishna

Karu

In fact when you say Mercury can be considered as Male, then Cancer is the best sign to qualify as the Saptamsa Lagna.

Because, Jupiter is aspecting the Saptamsa lagna (Cancer), it has primary argala on the lagna and it is aspecting the Saptamsa lagna lord moon by rasi dhrishti and it is conjoined with the dispositer of lagna lord. So, having strong relationship with Saptamsa lagna and lagna lord, it qualifies as the Maha dasa lord.

1st son is to be seen from the Pi, the lord is in Libra, male sign, with male Mercury and female Venus. So, Male child and Mercury conjoined with the child's lagna lord Jupiter and qualify to become the andardasa lord. 10th lord from child's paka lagna Libra is Moon and it gives 10th thithi.

2nd son is to be seen from Cp, the lord Saturn is placed in Pi, so male child. Lord of 8th from the child's lagna (for this explanation is given below) is Sun, which qualifies to become the andardasa lord. Thithi is not matching like other optional lagnas of Ge and Le.

So, I am not in a position to accept the stretching of the rule. If we stretch, it applies to all signs. If at the end I accept the stretching, then cancer will be the Saptamsa lagna and there is no need to correct the time. If the stretching the rule is convinced, then counting based on oddity applies very well here.

Learned members please comment.

Thanks

Solai Kannan

Karu [heen]Tuesday, August 29, 2000 12:52 PMvarahamihira Subject: Re: [sri Guru] Saptamsa- Case study-2

Hare Rama Krishna,

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Solai and all friends,

My comments below. I have select only Gemini and Leo yet and in fact I am looking for others comments as well.>Take Gemini as Saptamsa Lagna:>Pakalagna is Libra - Planets having argala on the Pakalagna is Mars. Only>Mars qualifies to give child in its dasa.

It is true that lesson told that the ARGALA relationship must be consider. But dasa lord could be any planet having strong relationship with 7D. In this chart Jupiter, Mercury and Venus having strong relationship with Lagna and the lord of the lagna. Also chara putra karaka in the lagna. I beleive Jupiter is qualified here to become a Maha dasa lord to have children.

As I mentioned above, if we stretch this rule, then almost all signs show the result correctly. >Counting of Children's lagna: As Ge is odd sign, counting is in direct>order.>1st Son : 5th sign from Ge- Li. - Lord Venus is in Li. Male sign with Male>Jupiter and female Mercury - So, Male child.>Possible andardasas : Venus , Jupiter (Lord of 3rd from the child's lagna)

Mercury too qualified. Mercury having strong relationship with paka lagna of the child. antar dasa could be a planet in a trine to the paka lagna or 3rd or 8th to the 5th.

>2nd Son : 7th sign from Ge.- Sg. - Lord Jupiter is in Li. As two children>cannot have same paka lagna, next sign Scorpio is considered as lagna. Lord>Ketu in Exaltation - So, Male child.>Possible andardasas: Ketu, Jupiter, Mars, Saturn & Mercury (lords of 3rd and>8th houses from child's lagna respectively)

1.According to my understandings this is wrong. What you mean by lord of the 3rd and 8th house.?

I give the quote from the Saptamsa lesson,

"......(b) Individual children are predicted during the antardasa of the lord of the child, its depositor or the lords of the 3rd/8th from the Lagna (as mentioned earlier)...."

As per this I mentioned above.

2. According to my understanding the 2nd child could be born in Ketu, Mars, Sun (trine to paka lagna), Jupiter (dispositer), Saturn, sun (lord of the 3rd or 8th to the 5th) or COULD BE LORD OF THE 9TH OR 5TH. (before ask me why, please try to answer above question)

How ever Sun have qualification here as antar dasa lord.

>Conclusion : Sex of the children are OK. But, dasa and andardasa lords are>not matching

It is maching.

>Take Leo as Saptamsa lagna:>Pakalagna is Gemini - There is no primary argala on Pakalagna, Jupiter,>Mercury, Venus have secondary argala on the Pakalagna.>Counting of Children's lagna: As Le is odd sign, counting is in direct>order.>1st Son : 5th sign from Le- Sg. - Lord Jupiter is in Li. Male sign with>female Mercury and female Venus- So, female child.

Gurudeva saying in COVA "..Saturn and Mercury are eunuch planets, but I have found them to indicate female and male children respectively.."

So first child is Male.

>Possible andardasas : Jupiter, Venus Saturn & Moon (Lords of 3rd and 8th>houses from child's lagna respectively)

As explained above, Mercury too qualified.

>2nd Son : 7th sign from Le.- Aq. - Lord Saturn is in Pi - So, Male child.>Possible andardasas: Saturn, Jupiter, Mars & Mercury (lords of 3rd and 8th>houses from child's lagna respectively)

Lord of the 7th house is Rahu, conjoied Sun indicate male child again. Sun is in trine to paka laga and again Sun qualified as AD lord.>>Conclusion: Sex of 1st child is not OK, but second child is OK. But, dasa is>matching for both sons, but andardasa is not matching.>Foot note: Honestly, I could not conclude from this. In cases of Ge, Cn, Le> & Vi, the thithi of 1st son is matching, but, for second son thithi is not>matching. I request the learned members to help this out. OR am I somewhere>wrong?

Maha dasa ,Antar Dasa, Janma lagna and Thihi are very clear according to Geminai.

For Second child the thithi will not suit. 10th from pakalagna, Sg is Vi and its lord Mercury signifies 4th & 12th thithis.

Only thithi of the 2nd child and Jnama rasi of the 2nd child not clear according to Leo Saptamsa.

How ever before go further I select Leo, but waiting for your comments. We will go together.

In fact, others comments are much appriciated, if we missed anything here.

Hare Krishna,

Karu

It is nice having this exercise.

Thanks

Solai Kannan OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.htmlOM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.htmlOM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.html

August 30, 2000

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Solai,

In fact, you must have this two books.

I haven't given this up. I will do this lesson again with all rules and will send within couple of days.

Hare Krishna,

Karu

OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH

JAYA JAGANNATHA

Namaste Mr.Karu,

True, I am handicapped without COVA, I hope I will get it soon. We will go over this exercise again once I get the COVA.

Thanks for the feedback Mr.Karu.

Solai Kannan

September 2, 2000

OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH

JAYA JAGANNATHA

Namaste Mr.Karu,

I attached the old Vedic Astrology mail here, I hope Mr.Narasimha will not mind this. There you can see Gurudeva has mentioned as 10th from the any related house and for Saptamsa also he mentioned for the first child it must be 10th from the 5th house, i.e the 2nd house. But, in the example, where he has taken his chart as example, he mentioned that Jupiter is the lord to determine the thithi for his first child. That means it must be from pakalagna. Because, his Satamsa lagna is Sg. fifth lord Mars placed in Ge. So, 10th from Ge. is Pi., where the lord Jupiter is placed. So, Jupiter determines the thithi.

So, you are correct. It must be from 10th from the pakalagna.

Thanks

Solai Kannan

Karu [heen]Thursday, August 31, 2000 2:09 PMvarahamihira Subject: Re: [sri Guru] Saptamsa- Case study-2

Jaya jagannath,

Dear Solai

Namaste Mr.Karu,

I also didn't give up. I am also working. But, I will make my comments after getting the books.

Meanwhile, please check for Virgo lagna also.

I read one of the Vedic Astrology mail regarding Rath's Rule- mail no 141, Pt.Sanjay mentioned that the thithi should be calculated based on the 10th house from the lagna of the child and not the pakalagna of the child. Can you please check and do your workings based on this?

would you have this mail with you ? I geuss you misunderstood. In COVA almost all examples given according to the way I done. !0th house of the lagna of the child means paka lagna.

We will clear this soon.

Karu

Thanks

With regards

Solai Kannan

Karu [heen]Wednesday, August 30, 2000 10:46 PMvarahamihira Subject: Re: [sri Guru] Saptamsa- Case study-2

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Solai,

In fact, you must have this two books.

I haven't given this up. I will do this lesson again with all rules and will send within couple of days.

Hare Krishna,

Karu

OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH

JAYA JAGANNATHA

Namaste Mr.Karu,

True, I am handicapped without COVA, I hope I will get it soon. We will go over this exercise again once I get the COVA.

Thanks for the feedback Mr.Karu.

Solai Kannan

OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.htmlOM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.htmlOM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.html

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SRath <SRath@p...>

Mon Feb 15, 1999 10:15pm

RATH'S RULE

Bravo Narasimha,

I am waiting to see the day when the Saura varsha will actually be

based on the Sura (Sun) and not on the rotation of the earth. Then we will

be fixing the exact Ayanamsa and its precession on the true calculations

rather than terrible averages.

The Tithi (Vedic Lunar day) is the correct method of timing events

to the day. Readers can refer to my book " Crux of Vedic Astrology- Timing of

events " Chapter XI for this under RATH'S RULE (After my Late Grandfather Pt.

Jagannath Rath). The rule cited therein is for timing the date of Death, but

can be extended to all activities as follows:

Take the tenth house from any activity related house. The strongest

planet in this bhava or its lord gives the Vedic Date of the event. For

example, to determine the date of Death, we see the tenth from the 8th house

i.e. the 5th house. If the Sun is present, the Tithi of death is 1(Pratipad)

or 9(Navami). The rulership is as per the Kalachakra (Sun 1/9, Moon 2/10,

Mars 3/11, Mercury 4/12, Jupiter 5/13, Venus 6/14, Saturn 7 or Full Moon and

Rahu 8 or Amavasya).

This can also be extended to the Divisional Charts. For example, the

SAPTAMSA rules children. Now, the fifth house shows first child and the

tenth from the 5th house is the second house. In my horoscope, the second is

ruled by Jupiter and the Tithi of birth of my first child can be either 5

(Panchami) or 13 (Trayodasi). As pedicted, my daughter (1st Child) was born

on Trayodasi (13 Tithi) on the 21st of December 1992.

My advise is to try these on many charts and develop some expertise

before applying them. In fact someday, somebody will start publishing a good

Panchang.

With Best Regards,

Sanjay Rath

Sri Jagannath Vedic Astrology Center

152B Pocket C Mayur Vihar Phase-2, Delhi 110091

Tel:+91-11-2489531;e-mail: srath@p...

Webpage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/9544/

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September 3, 2000

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Sat Siri,

Thanks for your mail. Here I cannot understand why you neglect strong papargala from Mars on 1st child. According to Cancer, 10th lord is maraka for 1st child. As far as my understanding conjoined nodes in paka lagna indicate the last issue. according to cancer you may go for another issue.

If you take Gemini, paka lagna of 1st child will be Libra and both Ketu (reverse) and Mars having strong papargala on 5th. Mars and Ketu own maraka place to the 5th.

If you take Leo lagna, 1st child and 2nd child indicate correctly, same as cancer, and Rahu indicate 2nd and the last child. There are no any papargala on issues from 6th lord.

Cancer and Leo indicate same results and when compare,

1. According to Cancer, 1st child having papargala from Mars and Leo OK.

2.According to cancer, the 3rd issue is unlikely, according to Zoran. But may have 4th and 5th issues. 2nd child does not indicate the last child. According to Leo paka lagna of 2nd child conjoined Rahu, clearly indicate last child. Only Solai can answer this.

In fact, I am too agree with Zoran's readings but the question is still there.

How ever we did not go for PAD dasa, Transits, and narayana dasa. After narrow down the possibility of various lagna we better study and find the correct answer.

Thanks,

karu

Dear Solai and Karu, i hope you don't mind me adding some comments on this interesting discussion. After going through it all, I believe the Cancer lagna must be correct and I don't think it stretches the rules. Here's why: First son's paka lagna is Mercury (P. 175 COVA " eunuch found to indicate male " ). Vimsottari dasha lord Jupiter does not have argala but is in SAMMUKH RASI of D-7 lagnesh Moon's Taurus rasi. As we have seen in Rath's Rules concerning tithis in COVA p. 327 Sammukh Rasi is an alternative to a rasi. Sammukh rasis are rasis with the " same face " . They are pairs consisting of Aries-Scorpio, Taurus-Libra, Gem-Vir, Can-Aquarius, Leo-Cap, Sag-Pis. So Libra can be an alternative to D-7 paka lagna Taurus. Bhukti lord Mercury is lord of third from D-7 Lagna. Solai's chart's MOST PREFERABLE DASHA is Astottari dasha. In that dasha you are running Mars/Jup at birth of first child. Mars has 7th house argala on Moon. Jupiter is lord of ninth house, first son's house. Lagna at birth of child is Libra, in kendra from father's D-7. Tithi is Moon, lord of tenth from child's paka lagna Libra. Second son's paka lagna is Saturn in Pisces, male sign. Vimsottari dasha lord Jupiter, same as above. Bhukti lord Sun is not " lord of the child (Jup), its dispositor (Ven), or lord of 3rd (Merc) or 8th(Ra) " , as the lesson dictates, but IS associated with 8th lord Rahu. MORE PREFERABLE DASHA Lord in Astottari is Mercury/Mercury. Mercury is in sammukh rasi from D-7 lagnesh and Mercury is lord of 3rd from D-7 lagna. Lagna at birth of second son is Sagittarius, sammukh of child's paka lagna which is in a kona. Tithi is Mars. Mars can be substituted for by Ketu, according to Parashara's dictum that Rahu is like Saturn and Ketu is like Mars. Ketu is in 10th from child's paka lagna Pisces. Thus it takes some substitutions to get there but allowing for those everything fits in with the rules. Sincerely, Sat Nam Wahe Jio, Sat Siri K. Karu wrote:

Jaya Jagannath,Dear Solai, We should take reverse count. So we find pisces in 9th house, IT is lorded by Guru. Guru is placed in 4th house with mercury/venus in libra(frutiful sign) This should normally give more female influences, however, guru This is where we need the clarification. In the lesson it is not mentioned about the child's lagnesh to be considered for the sex of the child. Plus, the conjunction dominates the sign. Let me put it in this way. When we are trying to match the already born child with the chart, we say male Guru and Male sign. But, if we are predicting, we will predict female, because of the conjunction of female planets. However, Mr.Karu mentioned that Mercury can be considered as Male at times. So, here it is not making any difference. What I concerned about considering the lagnesh for the child's sex determination. Is it correct or not? We must look at lord of the issue too. That is why when the lord is no conjoined, no debiliated, no exaulted sex is indicate by the lord it self. Mercury indicate male. It is not my rule but taken from COVA. is male andlibra is male frutiful sign, so the 1st child could be male. Guru is aspecting(rashi dristi) saptamsa lagnesh moon, and has argala over saptamsa lagna, so guru mahadasha is qualified to give children. Again, as per lesson, to find out the dasa lord,we should consider the planets having argala on the Saptamsa lagnesh. I know that there must be exceptions or additional rules, because, when there are 5 or 6 planets conjoined at one sign, then planets having argala on lagnesh will be less in number or may be no argala at all. But, those people are having children, so there must be another rule to determine the dasa lord. Then, we want to know the specific rule or exceptions. Shall we consider the planet having argala or dhrishti on the Saptamsa lagna and lagnesh to determine the dasa lord? Or should we see the planet having strong influence on the lagna or lagnesh?Mercury is with 9th house lord guru, so its antaradasha is qualified to give child birth.Again, here also we need clear guidelines on finding the antardasa lord. As per lesson, it is the child's lagna lord, its dispositor or lords of 3rd and 8th house from the child's lagna. Is there any additional rules or exceptions to this rule?Antar Dasa lord could be a planet in a trine to issue. This is basic rule and in COVA. Thanks,Karu

OM TAT SAT Archive: varahamihira Info: varahamihira/info.html

September 3, 2000

OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH

JAYA JAGANNATHA

Namaste Mr.Karu,

Thanks for your reply on the Rath's rule and I noted the content.

I made my comments below.

Thanks

Solai Kannan

Karu [heen]Sunday, September 03, 2000 3:34 AMvarahamihira Subject: Re: [sri Guru] Saptamsa- Case study-2

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Sat Siri,

Thanks for your mail. Here I cannot understand why you neglect strong papargala from Mars on 1st child. According to Cancer, 10th lord is maraka for 1st child.

I understand your point.

As far as my understanding conjoined nodes in paka lagna indicate the last issue. according to cancer you may go for another issue.

I don't get this point.

If you take Gemini, paka lagna of 1st child will be Libra and both Ketu (reverse) and Mars having strong papargala on 5th.

Mars and Ketu own maraka place to the 5th.

I understand this papargala. Here, what do you mean by this? You mean Gemini cannot be the Saptamsa lagna.

If you take Leo lagna, 1st child and 2nd child indicate correctly, same as cancer, and Rahu indicate 2nd and the last child. There are no any papargala on issues from 6th lord.

Cancer and Leo indicate same results and when compare,

1. According to Cancer, 1st child having papargala from Mars and Leo OK.

2.According to cancer, the 3rd issue is unlikely, according to Zoran. But may have 4th and 5th issues. 2nd child does not indicate the last child. According to Leo paka lagna of 2nd child conjoined Rahu, clearly indicate last child. Only Solai can answer this.

Yes. We planned no more child after the 2nd child.

In fact, I am too agree with Zoran's readings but the question is still there.

How ever we did not go for PAD dasa, Transits, and narayana dasa. After narrow down the possibility of various lagna we better study and find the correct answer.

Please consider my point on the 2nd child antardasa for cancer lagna and Sat siri 's point on the thithi. Anyhow, now we have to decide between Cancer and Leo. If we cannot conclude, we will go further to PAD etc.,

Thanks,

karu

BTW, if we have to change the time for Leo Saptamsa lagna, we have to add only 42 seconds. Other major charts like, Navamsa, Dasamsa and Shatyamsa don't change with this change. So, without any trouble we can decide between Cancer and Leo.

Thanks

Solai Kannan

Dear Solai and Karu, i hope you don't mind me adding some comments on this interesting discussion. After going through it all, I believe the Cancer lagna must be correct and I don't think it stretches the rules. Here's why: First son's paka lagna is Mercury (P. 175 COVA "eunuch found to indicate male"). Vimsottari dasha lord Jupiter does not have argala but is in SAMMUKH RASI of D-7 lagnesh Moon's Taurus rasi. As we have seen in Rath's Rules concerning tithis in COVA p. 327 Sammukh Rasi is an alternative to a rasi. Sammukh rasis are rasis with the "same face". They are pairs consisting of Aries-Scorpio, Taurus-Libra, Gem-Vir, Can-Aquarius, Leo-Cap, Sag-Pis. So Libra can be an alternative to D-7 paka lagna Taurus. Bhukti lord Mercury is lord of third from D-7 Lagna. Solai's chart's MOST PREFERABLE DASHA is Astottari dasha. In that dasha you are running Mars/Jup at birth of first child. Mars has 7th house argala on Moon. Jupiter is lord of ninth house, first son's house. Lagna at birth of child is Libra, in kendra from father's D-7. Tithi is Moon, lord of tenth from child's paka lagna Libra. Second son's paka lagna is Saturn in Pisces, male sign. Vimsottari dasha lord Jupiter, same as above. Bhukti lord Sun is not "lord of the child (Jup), its dispositor (Ven), or lord of 3rd (Merc) or 8th(Ra)", as the lesson dictates, but IS associated with 8th lord Rahu. MORE PREFERABLE DASHA Lord in Astottari is Mercury/Mercury. Mercury is in sammukh rasi from D-7 lagnesh and Mercury is lord of 3rd from D-7 lagna. Lagna at birth of second son is Sagittarius, sammukh of child's paka lagna which is in a kona. Tithi is Mars. Mars can be substituted for by Ketu, according to Parashara's dictum that Rahu is like Saturn and Ketu is like Mars. Ketu is in 10th from child's paka lagna Pisces. Thus it takes some substitutions to get there but allowing for those everything fits in with the rules. Sincerely, Sat Nam Wahe Jio, Sat Siri K. Karu wrote:

Jaya Jagannath,Dear Solai, We should take reverse count. So we find pisces in 9th house, IT is lorded by Guru. Guru is placed in 4th house with mercury/venus in libra(frutiful sign) This should normally give more female influences, however, guru This is where we need the clarification. In the lesson it is not mentioned about the child's lagnesh to be considered for the sex of the child. Plus, the conjunction dominates the sign. Let me put it in this way. When we are trying to match the already born child with the chart, we say male Guru and Male sign. But, if we are predicting, we will predict female, because of the conjunction of female planets. However, Mr.Karu mentioned that Mercury can be considered as Male at times. So, here it is not making any difference. What I concerned about considering the lagnesh for the child's sex determination. Is it correct or not? We must look at lord of the issue too. That is why when the lord is no conjoined, no debiliated, no exaulted sex is indicate by the lord it self. Mercury indicate male. It is not my rule but taken from COVA. is male andlibra is male frutiful sign, so the 1st child could be male. Guru is aspecting(rashi dristi) saptamsa lagnesh moon, and has argala over saptamsa lagna, so guru mahadasha is qualified to give children. Again, as per lesson, to find out the dasa lord,we should consider the planets having argala on the Saptamsa lagnesh. I know that there must be exceptions or additional rules, because, when there are 5 or 6 planets conjoined at one sign, then planets having argala on lagnesh will be less in number or may be no argala at all. But, those people are having children, so there must be another rule to determine the dasa lord. Then, we want to know the specific rule or exceptions. Shall we consider the planet having argala or dhrishti on the Saptamsa lagna and lagnesh to determine the dasa lord? Or should we see the planet having strong influence on the lagna or lagnesh?Mercury is with 9th house lord guru, so its antaradasha is qualified to give child birth.Again, here also we need clear guidelines on finding the antardasa lord. As per lesson, it is the child's lagna lord, its dispositor or lords of 3rd and 8th house from the child's lagna. Is there any additional rules or exceptions to this rule?Antar Dasa lord could be a planet in a trine to issue. This is basic rule and in COVA. Thanks,Karu

OM TAT SAT Archive: varahamihira Info: varahamihira/info.html OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.html

September 3, 2000

Dear Karu, see replies below:

Karu wrote:

Jaya

Jaya Jagannath,Dear Sat Siri, Thanks

for your mail. Here I cannot understand why you neglect strong papargala

from Mars on 1st child. According to Cancer, 10th lord is maraka for 1st

child.

Yes, 10L Mars makes papargala

on Jupiter in paka lagna of first son. However Mars itself could

be said to be multiply obstructed by planets in 12th from Mars, i.e. Venus,

Jupiter, Mercury. In my understanding, there should be a very strong

connection from 9th house to 10th house for the maraka relationship to

take effect. One argala between lords is not a strong enough relationship.

Rather, ninth lord should be in tenth or have strong association/drishti.

Even if a strong argala is enough to do it, which you may wish to press

further, here we do not have a particularly strong argala as Mars is also

obstructed by its own dispositor exalted Ketu on the other side of it.

As far as my understanding

conjoined nodes in paka lagna indicate the last issue. according to cancer

you may go for another issue.

Agreed.

If you take Gemini, paka lagna

of 1st child will be Libra and both Ketu (reverse) and Mars having strong

papargala on 5th. Mars and Ketu own maraka place to the 5th. If

you take Leo lagna, 1st child and 2nd child indicate correctly, same as

cancer, and Rahu indicate 2nd and the last child. There are no any papargala

on issues from 6th lord.

I don't consider either of these lagnas eligible for other

reasons.

Cancer and Leo indicate

same results and when compare,1. According to Cancer,

1st child having papargala from Mars and Leo OK.2.According

to cancer, the 3rd issue is unlikely, according to Zoran. But may have

4th and 5th issues. 2nd child does not indicate the last child. According

to Leo paka lagna of 2nd child conjoined Rahu, clearly indicate last child.

Only Solai can answer this.

With first child Pisces, second child Capricorn, to get

to a third child you have to cross the exalted Ra-Ke axis, which also includes

Sun.

These are a separative barrier. I agree that it

would be highly unlikely to go on to a third child or also fourth or fifth.

The strong RK axis forms a barrier to any further issues.

In fact, I am too agree

with Zoran's readings but the question is still there. How

ever we did not go for PAD dasa, Transits, and narayana dasa. After narrow

down the possibility of various lagna we better study and find the correct

answer.

You haven't replied to the points I made about the Sammukh

rasis explaining how the connection of dashas to D-7 lagna works for Cancer,

and also the explanations of why tithis for both children work. Those

were the main points which

seem to me to remove any question that Cancer is the

correct lagna. Please also see Solai's

reply and mine to his.

Thanks,karu Be

well,

Sat Siri

Dear

Solai and Karu,

i hope you don't mind me adding

some comments on this interesting discussion.

After going through it all, I believe the Cancer lagna must be correct

and I don't

think it stretches the rules. Here's why:

First son's paka lagna is Mercury (P.

175 COVA "eunuch found to indicate male").

Vimsottari dasha lord Jupiter does not

have argala but is in SAMMUKH RASI

of D-7 lagnesh Moon's Taurus rasi. As we have seen in Rath's

Rules concerning tithis in

COVA p. 327 Sammukh Rasi is an alternative to a rasi.

Sammukh rasis are rasis with the

"same face". They are pairs

consisting of Aries-Scorpio, Taurus-Libra, Gem-Vir, Can-Aquarius, Leo-Cap,

Sag-Pis.

So Libra can be an alternative to D-7 paka lagna Taurus.

Bhukti lord Mercury is lord of third from D-7 Lagna.

Solai's chart's MOST PREFERABLE DASHA is Astottari

dasha. In that dasha you are running Mars/Jup at

birth of first child. Mars has 7th house argala on Moon.

Jupiter is lord of ninth house, first son's house. Lagna at birth

of child is Libra, in kendra from father's D-7. Tithi is Moon, lord

of tenth from child's paka lagna Libra.

Second son's paka lagna is

Saturn in Pisces, male sign.

Vimsottari dasha lord Jupiter,

same as above. Bhukti lord Sun is not "lord of the child (Jup), its

dispositor (Ven), or lord of 3rd (Merc) or 8th(Ra)", as the lesson dictates,

but IS associated with 8th lord Rahu.

MORE PREFERABLE DASHA

Lord in Astottari is Mercury/Mercury. Mercury is in sammukh rasi

from

D-7 lagnesh and Mercury is lord of 3rd from D-7 lagna.

Lagna at birth of second

son is Sagittarius, sammukh of child's paka lagna which is in a kona.

Tithi is Mars.

Mars can be substituted for by Ketu, according to Parashara's dictum that

Rahu is like Saturn and Ketu is like Mars. Ketu is in 10th from

child's paka lagna Pisces.

Thus it takes some substitutions to get

there but allowing for those everything fits in with the rules.

Sincerely,

Sat Nam Wahe Jio,

Sat Siri K.

Karu wrote:

Jaya Jagannath,Dear Solai,

We should take reverse count. So we find pisces in 9th house, IT

is lorded by

Guru. Guru is placed in 4th house with mercury/venus in libra(frutiful

sign)

This should normally give more female influences, however, guru This

is where we need the clarification. In the lesson it is not mentioned about

the child's lagnesh to be considered for the sex of the child. Plus, the

conjunction dominates the sign. Let

me put it in this way. When we are trying to match the already born child

with the chart, we say male Guru and Male sign. But, if we are predicting,

we will predict female, because of the conjunction of female planets. However,

Mr.Karu mentioned that Mercury can be considered as Male at times. So,

here it is not making any difference. What I concerned about considering

the lagnesh for the child's sex determination. Is it correct or not?

We must look at lord of the issue too. That is why when the lord is no

conjoined, no debiliated, no exaulted sex is indicate by the lord it self.

Mercury indicate male. It is not my rule but taken from COVA. is

male andlibra is

male frutiful sign, so the 1st child could be male.

Guru is aspecting(rashi dristi) saptamsa lagnesh moon, and has

argala over

saptamsa lagna, so guru mahadasha is qualified to give children. Again,

as per lesson, to find out the dasa lord,we should consider the planets

having argala on the Saptamsa lagnesh. I know that there must be exceptions

or additional rules, because, when there are 5 or 6 planets conjoined at

one sign, then planets having argala on lagnesh will be less in number

or may be no argala at all. But, those people are having children, so there

must be another rule to determine the dasa lord. Then, we want to know

the specific rule or exceptions. Shall we consider the planet having argala

or dhrishti on the Saptamsa lagna and lagnesh to determine the dasa lord?

Or should we see the planet having strong influence on the lagna or lagnesh?Mercury

is with

9th house lord guru, so its antaradasha is qualified to give child

birth.Again,

here also we need clear guidelines on finding the antardasa lord. As per

lesson, it is the child's lagna lord, its dispositor or lords of 3rd and

8th house from the child's lagna. Is there any additional rules or exceptions

to this rule?Antar

Dasa lord could be a planet in a trine to issue. This is basic rule and

in COVA. Thanks,Karu

OM TAT SAT

Archive: varahamihira

Info: varahamihira/info.html

OM TAT SAT

Archive: varahamihira

Info: varahamihira/info.html

September 4, 2000

Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Sat Siri,

Thank you very much for join us and make your valuble comments on our studies. If we not help by others like you we never able to pick this valuble points. My comments beloow.

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,Dear Sat Siri, Thanks for your mail. Here I cannot understand why you neglect strong papargala from Mars on 1st child. According to Cancer, 10th lord is maraka for 1st child. Yes, 10L Mars makes papargala on Jupiter in paka lagna of first son. However Mars itself could be said to be multiply obstructed by planets in 12th from Mars, i.e. Venus, Jupiter, Mercury.

If we strech this rule like this we will never have a chance to use argala any more. Argala from 2nd house can be obstructed only by 12th house.

In my understanding, there should be a very strong connection from 9th house to 10th house for the maraka relationship to take effect. One argala between lords is not a strong enough relationship. Rather, ninth lord should be in tenth or have strong association/drishti. Even if a strong argala is enough to do it, which you may wish to press further, here we do not have a particularly strong argala as Mars is also obstructed by its own dispositor exalted Ketu on the other side of it.

No, it is not obstructed by Ketu. In fact Ketu too having unobstructed strong argala on paka lagna -Libra. If we take Ketu aa a benefic, still does not clear my trouble. If there is any planet in 12th from Libra, of course this argala of Mars could be ignored.

As far as my understanding conjoined nodes in paka lagna indicate the last issue. according to cancer you may go for another issue. Agreed. If you take Gemini, paka lagna of 1st child will be Libra and both Ketu (reverse) and Mars having strong papargala on 5th. Mars and Ketu own maraka place to the 5th. If you take Leo lagna, 1st child and 2nd child indicate correctly, same as cancer, and Rahu indicate 2nd and the last child. There are no any papargala on issues from 6th lord. I don't consider either of these lagnas eligible for other reasons. Cancer and Leo indicate same results and when compare,1. According to Cancer, 1st child having papargala from Mars and Leo OK.2.According to cancer, the 3rd issue is unlikely, according to Zoran. But may have 4th and 5th issues. 2nd child does not indicate the last child. According to Leo paka lagna of 2nd child conjoined Rahu, clearly indicate last child. Only Solai can answer this. With first child Pisces, second child Capricorn, to get to a third child you have to cross the exalted Ra-Ke axis, which also includes Sun. These are a separative barrier. I agree that it would be highly unlikely to go on to a third child or also fourth or fifth. The strong RK axis forms a barrier to any further issues. Here again I need clear this. I will do more case studies for this and let you know my findings. In fact, I am too agree with Zoran's readings but the question is still there. How ever we did not go for PAD dasa, Transits, and narayana dasa. After narrow down the possibility of various lagna we better study and find the correct answer. You haven't replied to the points I made about the Sammukh rasis explaining how the connection of dashas to D-7 lagna works for Cancer, and also the explanations of why tithis for both children work. Those were the main points which seem to me to remove any question that Cancer is the correct lagna. Please also see Solai's reply and mine to his. I will answer in your mail for this.

Thank you,

hare Krshna,

Karu Thanks,karu Be well, Sat Siri

Dear Solai and Karu, i hope you don't mind me adding some comments on this interesting discussion. After going through it all, I believe the Cancer lagna must be correct and I don't think it stretches the rules. Here's why: First son's paka lagna is Mercury (P. 175 COVA " eunuch found to indicate male " ). Vimsottari dasha lord Jupiter does not have argala but is in SAMMUKH RASI of D-7 lagnesh Moon's Taurus rasi. As we have seen in Rath's Rules concerning tithis in COVA p. 327 Sammukh Rasi is an alternative to a rasi. Sammukh rasis are rasis with the " same face " . They are pairs consisting of Aries-Scorpio, Taurus-Libra, Gem-Vir, Can-Aquarius, Leo-Cap, Sag-Pis. So Libra can be an alternative to D-7 paka lagna Taurus. Bhukti lord Mercury is lord of third from D-7 Lagna. Solai's chart's MOST PREFERABLE DASHA is Astottari dasha. In that dasha you are running Mars/Jup at birth of first child. Mars has 7th house argala on Moon. Jupiter is lord of ninth house, first son's house. Lagna at birth of child is Libra, in kendra from father's D-7. Tithi is Moon, lord of tenth from child's paka lagna Libra. Second son's paka lagna is Saturn in Pisces, male sign. Vimsottari dasha lord Jupiter, same as above. Bhukti lord Sun is not " lord of the child (Jup), its dispositor (Ven), or lord of 3rd (Merc) or 8th(Ra) " , as the lesson dictates, but IS associated with 8th lord Rahu. MORE PREFERABLE DASHA Lord in Astottari is Mercury/Mercury. Mercury is in sammukh rasi from D-7 lagnesh and Mercury is lord of 3rd from D-7 lagna. Lagna at birth of second son is Sagittarius, sammukh of child's paka lagna which is in a kona. Tithi is Mars. Mars can be substituted for by Ketu, according to Parashara's dictum that Rahu is like Saturn and Ketu is like Mars. Ketu is in 10th from child's paka lagna Pisces. Thus it takes some substitutions to get there but allowing for those everything fits in with the rules. Sincerely, Sat Nam Wahe Jio, Sat Siri K. Karu wrote:

Jaya Jagannath,Dear Solai, We should take reverse count. So we find pisces in 9th house, IT is lorded by Guru. Guru is placed in 4th house with mercury/venus in libra(frutiful sign) This should normally give more female influences, however, guru This is where we need the clarification. In the lesson it is not mentioned about the child's lagnesh to be considered for the sex of the child. Plus, the conjunction dominates the sign. Let me put it in this way. When we are trying to match the already born child with the chart, we say male Guru and Male sign. But, if we are predicting, we will predict female, because of the conjunction of female planets. However, Mr.Karu mentioned that Mercury can be considered as Male at times. So, here it is not making any difference. What I concerned about considering the lagnesh for the child's sex determination. Is it correct or not? We must look at lord of the issue too. That is why when the lord is no conjoined, no debiliated, no exaulted sex is indicate by the lord it self. Mercury indicate male. It is not my rule but taken from COVA. is male andlibra is male frutiful sign, so the 1st child could be male. Guru is aspecting(rashi dristi) saptamsa lagnesh moon, and has argala over saptamsa lagna, so guru mahadasha is qualified to give children. Again, as per lesson, to find out the dasa lord,we should consider the planets having argala on the Saptamsa lagnesh. I know that there must be exceptions or additional rules, because, when there are 5 or 6 planets conjoined at one sign, then planets having argala on lagnesh will be less in number or may be no argala at all. But, those people are having children, so there must be another rule to determine the dasa lord. Then, we want to know the specific rule or exceptions. Shall we consider the planet having argala or dhrishti on the Saptamsa lagna and lagnesh to determine the dasa lord? Or should we see the planet having strong influence on the lagna or lagnesh?Mercury is with 9th house lord guru, so its antaradasha is qualified to give child birth.Again, here also we need clear guidelines on finding the antardasa lord. As per lesson, it is the child's lagna lord, its dispositor or lords of 3rd and 8th house from the child's lagna. Is there any additional rules or exceptions to this rule?Antar Dasa lord could be a planet in a trine to issue. This is basic rule and in COVA. Thanks,Karu

OM TAT SAT Archive: varahamihira Info: varahamihira/info.html

September 4, 2000

Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Solai

If you take Gemini, paka lagna of 1st child will be Libra and both Ketu (reverse) and Mars having strong papargala on 5th.

Mars and Ketu own maraka place to the 5th.

I understand this papargala. Here, what do you mean by this? You mean Gemini cannot be the Saptamsa lagna.

If the rules are correct, yes, there must be a problem with Gemini.

If you take Leo lagna, 1st child and 2nd child indicate correctly, same as cancer, and Rahu indicate 2nd and the last child. There are no any papargala on issues from 6th lord.

Cancer and Leo indicate same results and when compare,

1. According to Cancer, 1st child having papargala from Mars and Leo OK.

2.According to cancer, the 3rd issue is unlikely, according to Zoran. But may have 4th and 5th issues. 2nd child does not indicate the last child. According to Leo paka lagna of 2nd child conjoined Rahu, clearly indicate last child. Only Solai can answer this.

Yes. We planned no more child after the 2nd child.

In fact, I am too agree with Zoran's readings but the question is still there.

How ever we did not go for PAD dasa, Transits, and narayana dasa. After narrow down the possibility of various lagna we better study and find the correct answer.

Please consider my point on the 2nd child antardasa for cancer lagna and Sat siri 's point on the thithi. Anyhow, now we have to decide between Cancer and Leo. If we cannot conclude, we will go further to PAD etc.,

I am agree with this rules. But some of them are axplained as ''Generally " . For example ...' generally a male child is born in six rasi.....' (4.6.C of the lesson).

So must understand there could be some exemptions. Do not have to hurry. we will do some case studies.

( Again I am not saying Cancer could be wrong.)

Thanks,

Karu

Thanks,

karu

BTW, if we have to change the time for Leo Saptamsa lagna, we have to add only 42 seconds. Other major charts like, Navamsa, Dasamsa and Shatyamsa don't change with this change. So, without any trouble we can decide between Cancer and Leo.

Thanks

Solai Kannan

Dear Solai and Karu, i hope you don't mind me adding some comments on this interesting discussion. After going through it all, I believe the Cancer lagna must be correct and I don't think it stretches the rules. Here's why: First son's paka lagna is Mercury (P. 175 COVA " eunuch found to indicate male " ). Vimsottari dasha lord Jupiter does not have argala but is in SAMMUKH RASI of D-7 lagnesh Moon's Taurus rasi. As we have seen in Rath's Rules concerning tithis in COVA p. 327 Sammukh Rasi is an alternative to a rasi. Sammukh rasis are rasis with the " same face " . They are pairs consisting of Aries-Scorpio, Taurus-Libra, Gem-Vir, Can-Aquarius, Leo-Cap, Sag-Pis. So Libra can be an alternative to D-7 paka lagna Taurus. Bhukti lord Mercury is lord of third from D-7 Lagna. Solai's chart's MOST PREFERABLE DASHA is Astottari dasha. In that dasha you are running Mars/Jup at birth of first child. Mars has 7th house argala on Moon. Jupiter is lord of ninth house, first son's house. Lagna at birth of child is Libra, in kendra from father's D-7. Tithi is Moon, lord of tenth from child's paka lagna Libra. Second son's paka lagna is Saturn in Pisces, male sign. Vimsottari dasha lord Jupiter, same as above. Bhukti lord Sun is not " lord of the child (Jup), its dispositor (Ven), or lord of 3rd (Merc) or 8th(Ra) " , as the lesson dictates, but IS associated with 8th lord Rahu. MORE PREFERABLE DASHA Lord in Astottari is Mercury/Mercury. Mercury is in sammukh rasi from D-7 lagnesh and Mercury is lord of 3rd from D-7 lagna. Lagna at birth of second son is Sagittarius, sammukh of child's paka lagna which is in a kona. Tithi is Mars. Mars can be substituted for by Ketu, according to Parashara's dictum that Rahu is like Saturn and Ketu is like Mars. Ketu is in 10th from child's paka lagna Pisces. Thus it takes some substitutions to get there but allowing for those everything fits in with the rules. Sincerely, Sat Nam Wahe Jio, Sat Siri K.

Karu wrote:

Jaya Jagannath,Dear Solai, We should take reverse count. So we find pisces in 9th house, IT is lorded by Guru. Guru is placed in 4th house with mercury/venus in libra(frutiful sign) This should normally give more female influences, however, guru This is where we need the clarification. In the lesson it is not mentioned about the child's lagnesh to be considered for the sex of the child. Plus, the conjunction dominates the sign. Let me put it in this way. When we are trying to match the already born child with the chart, we say male Guru and Male sign. But, if we are predicting, we will predict female, because of the conjunction of female planets. However, Mr.Karu mentioned that Mercury can be considered as Male at times. So, here it is not making any difference. What I concerned about considering the lagnesh for the child's sex determination. Is it correct or not? We must look at lord of the issue too. That is why when the lord is no conjoined, no debiliated, no exaulted sex is indicate by the lord it self. Mercury indicate male. It is not my rule but taken from COVA. is male andlibra is male frutiful sign, so the 1st child could be male. Guru is aspecting(rashi dristi) saptamsa lagnesh moon, and has argala over saptamsa lagna, so guru mahadasha is qualified to give children. Again, as per lesson, to find out the dasa lord,we should consider the planets having argala on the Saptamsa lagnesh. I know that there must be exceptions or additional rules, because, when there are 5 or 6 planets conjoined at one sign, then planets having argala on lagnesh will be less in number or may be no argala at all. But, those people are having children, so there must be another rule to determine the dasa lord. Then, we want to know the specific rule or exceptions. Shall we consider the planet having argala or dhrishti on the Saptamsa lagna and lagnesh to determine the dasa lord? Or should we see the planet having strong influence on the lagna or lagnesh?Mercury is with 9th house lord guru, so its antaradasha is qualified to give child birth.Again, here also we need clear guidelines on finding the antardasa lord. As per lesson, it is the child's lagna lord, its dispositor or lords of 3rd and 8th house from the child's lagna. Is there any additional rules or exceptions to this rule?Antar Dasa lord could be a planet in a trine to issue. This is basic rule and in COVA. Thanks,Karu

OM TAT SAT Archive: varahamihira Info: varahamihira/info.html OM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.htmlOM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.html

Saptamsa- Case study-2

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