Reply to Sat Siri- Saptamsa - Case study-2

[Guest guest]

Namaste Solai,

My replies are below yours:

Solai Kannan wrote:

 

OHM

SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAHJAYA

JAGANNATHANamste

Sat Siri,Thanks

very much for your reply. You have added many good points. I hope you wouldn't

mind if I ask some questions for my clarification.Other

comments are belowThanksSolai

Kannan

 

-----Original

Message-----

Sat Siri Khalsa

[satsiri]

Saturday, September

02, 2000 10:52 PM

varahamihira

Re: [sri

Guru] Saptamsa- Case study-2

 

Dear Solai and Karu,

i hope you don't mind me adding

some comments on this interesting discussion. Certainly

not. We need more comments and criticism, then only we can fully understand

the subject.

After going through it all, I believe the Cancer lagna must be correct

and I don't

think it stretches the rules. Here's why:

First son's paka lagna is Mercury (P. 175 COVA "eunuch found to indicate

male").

How?

If we count reverse from cancer, the 5th house is Pi, its lord Jupiter

in Libra. If count direct the 5th house is Scorpio, the lord Ketu exalted

in Sg. So, how can Mercury become pakalagna, it must be a typo.

 

I am sorry, Solai, what I should have said was, Counting reverse from Cancer

first child is Pisces. Lord of Pisces is Jupiter, conjoined with

Venus, female planet, and Mercury, which can be taken as male planet according

to p. 175 COVA where Merc is explained as a eunuch planet "found to indicate

male." This is not repeated in our later lesson on Saptamsa but I

think we should refer back to COVA for additional information and clarifications.

So we have two male planets, Jup and Merc, with a female planet Venus in

a male sign Libra. Preponderance is male. First son's paka

lagna is Jupiter in Libra conjunct Mercury and Venus. Thank you for

pointing out my inaccuracy.

 

 

Vimsottari dasha lord Jupiter does not

have argala but is in SAMMUKH RASI

of D-7 lagnesh Moon's Taurus rasi. As we have seen in Rath's

Rules concerning tithis in

COVA p. 327 Sammukh Rasi is an alternative to a rasi.

Sammukh rasis are rasis with the

"same face". They are pairs

consisting of Aries-Scorpio, Taurus-Libra, Gem-Vir, Can-Aquarius, Leo-Cap,

Sag-Pis.

So Libra can be an alternative to D-7 paka lagna Taurus.

Very

good point on the Sammukh rasis. Thanks for bringing to our notice.

Bhukti lord Mercury is lord of third from D-7 Lagna.

As

this exercise is to understand the rules clearly, here we need to get the

correct rule. Because, as per lesson, " lords of 3rd and 8th house from

the Lagna". So, I think, it must be the Child's lagna. Not Saptamsa lagna.

 

Here you raise a point I had not thought of. I agree

this needs clarification. I prefer taking it from D-7 lagna itself but

definitely stand ready for correction. Now also, referring

back to COVA it says on p. 185, "The antardasa lord should be seen from

trines to the lord of the issue or its 7th or 12th house, or strong argalas."

Here, if Jupiter is lord of the first son, the antardasa could be Mercury

which is lord of a trine to Jupiter, Gemini , and the 12th from Jupiter,

Virgo.

This seems to support that the 3rd 8th possibilities

should be from D-7 lagna, not child's paka lagna. If from the Child's

paka lagna you can take 1st, 5th 9th 7th 12th, it seems unlikely to be

also 3rd and 8th. It is getting too diluted. That's half of

the houses.

 

 

Solai's chart's MOST PREFERABLE DASHA is Astottari

dasha.

True.

 

In that dasha you are running Mars/Jup at

birth of first child. Mars has 7th house argala on Moon.

We

cannot consider 7th aspect as Argala, but as Mr.Zoran mentioned, we can

consider at times aspect also in deciding the dasa lord.

 

Thanks for the correction. If I still want to find

an argala, I could say Mars has argala on lagnesh's sammukh rasi, Libra.

One might say that is going too far--that is the trickiness of looking

into sammukhs.

 

 

Jupiter is lord of ninth house,

first son's house. Lagna at birth of child is Libra, in kendra from

father's D-7. Tithi is Moon, lord of tenth from child's paka lagna

Libra.

 

Agreed.

Second son's paka lagna is Saturn

in Pisces, male sign.

Vimsottari dasha lord Jupiter,

same as above. Bhukti lord Sun is not "lord of the child (Jup), its

dispositor (Ven), or lord of 3rd (Merc) or 8th(Ra)", as the lesson dictates,

but IS associated with 8th lord Rahu.

If

you see the 8th lord from the lagna of child (here Capricorn) is Sun. So,

Sun is the antardasa lord for the Second child.

 

Yes, I can see that works as an interpretation.

But there are several possible fits here. Sun has argala on paka

lagnesh Saturn. Sun is conjoined Rahu, lord of 12th from child's

paka lagna. When Sun and a node conjoin the Sun gets swallowed and

the node takes over. Ra is lord of 8th from D-7 and 12th from paka

lagna. Too many possibilities to know which rule is prevailing!

 

 

 

MORE PREFERABLE DASHA

Lord in Astottari is Mercury/Mercury. Mercury is in sammukh rasi

from

D-7 lagnesh and Mercury is lord of 3rd from D-7 lagna.

Lagna at birth of second

son is Sagittarius, sammukh of child's paka lagna which is in a kona.

Tithi is Mars.

Mars can be substituted for by Ketu, according to Parashara's dictum that

Rahu is like Saturn and Ketu is like Mars. Ketu is in 10th from

child's paka lagna Pisces.

Very

good point for consideration.

Thus it takes some substitutions to get

there but allowing for those everything fits in with the rules.

 

Sincerely,

Sat Nam Wahe Jio,

Sat Siri K.

Thanks

 

 

Thank you too, Solai.

Be well,

Sat Siri K

 

 

Awaiting

for your feed back

Solai

Kannan

Karu wrote:

 

 

Jaya Jagannath,Dear Solai,

We should take reverse count. So we find pisces in 9th house, IT

is lorded by

Guru. Guru is placed in 4th house with mercury/venus in libra(frutiful

sign)

This should normally give more female influences, however, guru This

is where we need the clarification. In the lesson it is not mentioned about

the child's lagnesh to be considered for the sex of the child. Plus, the

conjunction dominates the sign. Let

me put it in this way. When we are trying to match the already born child

with the chart, we say male Guru and Male sign. But, if we are predicting,

we will predict female, because of the conjunction of female planets. However,

Mr.Karu mentioned that Mercury can be considered as Male at times. So,

here it is not making any difference. What I concerned about considering

the lagnesh for the child's sex determination. Is it correct or not?

We must look at lord of the issue too. That is why when the lord is no

conjoined, no debiliated, no exaulted sex is indicate by the lord it self.

Mercury indicate male. It is not my rule but taken from COVA. is

male andlibra is male frutiful sign,

so the 1st child could be male.

Guru is aspecting(rashi dristi) saptamsa lagnesh moon, and has

argala over

saptamsa lagna, so guru mahadasha is qualified to give children. Again,

as per lesson, to find out the dasa lord,we should consider the planets

having argala on the Saptamsa lagnesh. I know that there must be exceptions

or additional rules, because, when there are 5 or 6 planets conjoined at

one sign, then planets having argala on lagnesh will be less in number

or may be no argala at all. But, those people are having children, so there

must be another rule to determine the dasa lord. Then, we want to know

the specific rule or exceptions. Shall we consider the planet having argala

or dhrishti on the Saptamsa lagna and lagnesh to determine the dasa lord?

Or should we see the planet having strong influence on the lagna or lagnesh?Mercury

is with

9th house lord guru, so its antaradasha is qualified to give child

birth.Again,

here also we need clear guidelines on finding the antardasa lord. As per

lesson, it is the child's lagna lord, its dispositor or lords of 3rd and

8th house from the child's lagna. Is there any additional rules or exceptions

to this rule?Antar

Dasa lord could be a planet in a trine to issue. This is basic rule and

in COVA. Thanks,Karu

 

OM TAT SAT

Archive: varahamihira

Info: varahamihira/info.html

 

 

OM TAT SAT

Archive: varahamihira

Info: varahamihira/info.html

 

[Guest guest]

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Sat Siri,

 

 

Vimsottari dasha lord Jupiter does not have argala but is in SAMMUKH RASI of D-7 lagnesh Moon's Taurus rasi. As we have seen in Rath's Rules concerning tithis in COVA p. 327 Sammukh Rasi is an alternative to a rasi. Sammukh rasis are rasis with the " same face " . They are pairs consisting of Aries-Scorpio, Taurus-Libra, Gem-Vir, Can-Aquarius, Leo-Cap, Sag-Pis. So Libra can be an alternative to D-7 paka lagna Taurus. Very good point on the Sammukh rasis. Thanks for bringing to our notice. Thanks again for this point. I am agree to see the titi from rthe sammuka rasi, but not the lord of the dasa or antar dasa. If we were to use sammuka rasi for timing events with dasa, all will go hey way. We could point out any matter using any planetory period. I have not read COVA in full, but have you seen Gurudeva use this principle any where in COVA ? Did you use this principle for any other 7D lagna ?

Bhukti lord Mercury is lord of third from D-7 Lagna.

As this exercise is to understand the rules clearly, here we need to get the correct rule. Because, as per lesson, " lords of 3rd and 8th house from the Lagna " . So, I think, it must be the Child's lagna. Not Saptamsa lagna.

Did you think why lesson says 3rd /8th and why COVA says 7th and 12th.?

3rd and 8th is 4th and 11th to the 5th (forward count) such as for male and odd lagna charts. 12th and 7th is 4th and 11th from 5th (revers count) for female and even lagna charts.

We have to work very hard to understand Gurudeva's writing. So antar dasa could be a planet related to 4th and 11th house to 5th for 1st child. Now you may have to find again the antar dasa of 2nd child.Here you raise a point I had not thought of. I agree this needs clarification. I prefer taking it from D-7 lagna itself but definitely stand ready for correction. Now also, referring back to COVA it says on p. 185, " The antardasa lord should be seen from trines to the lord of the issue or its 7th or 12th house, or strong argalas. " Here, if Jupiter is lord of the first son, the antardasa could be Mercury which is lord of a trine to Jupiter, Gemini , and the 12th from Jupiter, Virgo. This seems to support that the 3rd 8th possibilities should be from D-7 lagna, not child's paka lagna. If from the Child's paka lagna you can take 1st, 5th 9th 7th 12th, it seems unlikely to be also 3rd and 8th. It is getting too diluted. That's half of the houses.

Solai's chart's MOST PREFERABLE DASHA is Astottari dasha. True. In that dasha you are running Mars/Jup at birth of first child. Mars has 7th house argala on Moon. We cannot consider 7th aspect as Argala, but as Mr.Zoran mentioned, we can consider at times aspect also in deciding the dasa lord.Thanks for the correction. If I still want to find an argala, I could say Mars has argala on lagnesh's sammukh rasi, Libra. One might say that is going too far--that is the trickiness of looking into sammukhs.

Jupiter is lord of ninth house, first son's house. Lagna at birth of child is Libra, in kendra from father's D-7. Tithi is Moon, lord of tenth from child's paka lagna Libra. Agreed. Second son's paka lagna is Saturn in Pisces, male sign. Vimsottari dasha lord Jupiter, same as above. Bhukti lord Sun is not " lord of the child (Jup), its dispositor (Ven), or lord of 3rd (Merc) or 8th(Ra) " , as the lesson dictates, but IS associated with 8th lord Rahu. If you see the 8th lord from the lagna of child (here Capricorn) is Sun. So, Sun is the antardasa lord for the Second child. Yes, I can see that works as an interpretation. But there are several possible fits here. Sun has argala on paka lagnesh Saturn. Sun is conjoined Rahu, lord of 12th from child's paka lagna. When Sun and a node conjoin the Sun gets swallowed and the node takes over. Ra is lord of 8th from D-7 and 12th from paka lagna. Too many possibilities to know which rule is prevailing!

MORE PREFERABLE DASHA Lord in Astottari is Mercury/Mercury. Mercury is in sammukh rasi from D-7 lagnesh and Mercury is lord of 3rd from D-7 lagna. Lagna at birth of second son is Sagittarius, sammukh of child's paka lagna which is in a kona. Tithi is Mars. Mars can be substituted for by Ketu, according to Parashara's dictum that Rahu is like Saturn and Ketu is like Mars. Ketu is in 10th from child's paka lagna Pisces. Very good point for consideration. Thus it takes some substitutions to get there but allowing for those everything fits in with the rules. Sincerely, Sat Nam Wahe Jio, Sat Siri K. Thanks

Thank you too, Solai. Be well, Sat Siri K

Awaiting for your feed back Solai Kannan Karu wrote:

Jaya Jagannath,Dear Solai, We should take reverse count. So we find pisces in 9th house, IT is lorded by Guru. Guru is placed in 4th house with mercury/venus in libra(frutiful sign) This should normally give more female influences, however, guru This is where we need the clarification. In the lesson it is not mentioned about the child's lagnesh to be considered for the sex of the child. Plus, the conjunction dominates the sign. Let me put it in this way. When we are trying to match the already born child with the chart, we say male Guru and Male sign. But, if we are predicting, we will predict female, because of the conjunction of female planets. However, Mr.Karu mentioned that Mercury can be considered as Male at times. So, here it is not making any difference. What I concerned about considering the lagnesh for the child's sex determination. Is it correct or not? We must look at lord of the issue too. That is why when the lord is no conjoined, no debiliated, no exaulted sex is indicate by the lord it self. Mercury indicate male. It is not my rule but taken from COVA. is male andlibra is male frutiful sign, so the 1st child could be male. Guru is aspecting(rashi dristi) saptamsa lagnesh moon, and has argala over saptamsa lagna, so guru mahadasha is qualified to give children. Again, as per lesson, to find out the dasa lord,we should consider the planets having argala on the Saptamsa lagnesh. I know that there must be exceptions or additional rules, because, when there are 5 or 6 planets conjoined at one sign, then planets having argala on lagnesh will be less in number or may be no argala at all. But, those people are having children, so there must be another rule to determine the dasa lord. Then, we want to know the specific rule or exceptions. Shall we consider the planet having argala or dhrishti on the Saptamsa lagna and lagnesh to determine the dasa lord? Or should we see the planet having strong influence on the lagna or lagnesh?Mercury is with 9th house lord guru, so its antaradasha is qualified to give child birth.Again, here also we need clear guidelines on finding the antardasa lord. As per lesson, it is the child's lagna lord, its dispositor or lords of 3rd and 8th house from the child's lagna. Is there any additional rules or exceptions to this rule?Antar Dasa lord could be a planet in a trine to issue. This is basic rule and in COVA. Thanks,Karu

OM TAT SAT Archive: varahamihira Info: varahamihira/info.html

OM TAT SAT Archive: varahamihira Info: varahamihira/info.html

[Guest guest]

OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH

JAYA JAGANNATHA

 

Namaste Sat Siri,

 

Summary is perfectly done by you. But, still I feel there is tie between Cancer and Leo. I am waiting for Karu's reply.

 

We are doing this exercise in one angle. I don't want to deviate from this. But, as a lateral thinking some thoughts come to me and I want to share this with you.

 

Why can't we take the Saptamsa chart and analyse the chart as a whole w.r.t to the lagna?

 

1.Say if it is Cancer, the lagna lord is exalted and has Rasi dhrishti from all the benefics, Jupiter, Mercury and Venus. And graha drishti from Saturn, Rahu and Mars. On the otherhand, if it is Leo, the lagna lord conjoined the malefic Rahu, it has Rasi drishti from Saturn and graha drishti from Jupiter and Mars.

What will these represent as a whole chart for each lagna?

 

2.In Saptamsa, lagna is the Self. What to see from the lagna? Lagna represents the relationship of the native with children. But, relationship will vary from child to child. So, we have to see the relationship of the child's lagna & lagna lord with the Saptamsa lagna & lagna lord. Am I correct?

 

Anyhow it is too early to judge the relationship with children. I mentioned here to know, whether my understanding is correct or not?

 

3.Is it possible to find the child's birth place, behavior, character from the child's lagna in Saptamsa? If so shall we try to resolve this issue in this way?

 

Mr.Karu, I reiterate that I am not deviating from the exercise we are doing. It is only different thinking.

 

I am awaiting for your, Mr.Karu's and other Gurus' reply in this regard.

 

Thanks

Solai Kannan

HARE RAMA KRISHNA HARE RAMA KRISHNA HARE RAMA KRISHNA HARE RAMA KRISHANA

 

 

 

 

Sat Siri Khalsa [satsiri]Tuesday, September 05, 2000 3:35 PMvarahamihira Subject: Re: [sri Guru] Reply to Karu & Sat Siri- Saptamsa - Case study-2

Namaste Solai and Karu, Thanks for your replies and I have had to reconsider and change opinions.Not everything on the rules about antardasas is still clear although your pointsbelow about 3rd/8th for males and 7th/12th for females is probably IT--I have toexperiment more with that. As for Karu's chart rectifiation Leo seems almost picture perfect, and Iwill re-summarize it:(remembering that birth should be timed from nadi sodhana, sometimes even whenwe think we have time recorded exactly we took it without waiting for thecutting of the cord and it should be few minutes later)For Leo, first son is Sagittarius with exalted Ketu.Paka Lagna is Jup in LibJup has argala on D-7 lord SunAstottari dasa Mars/JupMars has no argala on Sun but has argala on LeoJup is child's paka lagneshVimsottari dasa Jup/MerJup has argala on D-7 lord SunMercury is associated with paka lagnaTithi is Moon, lord of 10th from paka lagnaAsc. at birth is Libra, child's paka lagna although not kendra of father's D-7(Note: that issue about involvement of 6th lord on 5th or 10th lord on 9th alsoexists here, where Saturn's involvement on 5th house is more intense in thiscase--rasi, graha drishti and argala--- than in Cancer chart, 10th lord Mars'sargala on child's paka lagna. Perhaps exaltedKetu here overpowers Saturn's influence?)Second son is Aquarius.Paka Lagna is Rahu in GemRahu associates with D-7 lord SunAstottari dasa Mer/Mer.Mer has arg on D-7 lord SunMer rules child's paka lagnaVimsottari dasa Jup/SunJup has arg on D-7 lord SunSun is in child's paka lagnaTithi is Mars, which is in tenth from Aquarius, NOT tenth from paka lagnaSagittarius asc. at birth is kona of father's D-7Be well,Sat Nam Wahe Jio,Sat Siri KaurSolai Kannan wrote:>> OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH> JAYA JAGANNATHA> Namaste Karu and Sat Siri,> I cropped some of the agreed portions and combined some of the portions of> your mails.> I give the comments below.> Thanks> Solai Kannan> --------> Karu: Here I cannot understand why you neglect strong papargala from Mars on> 1st child. According to Cancer, 10th lord is maraka for 1st child.> Sat Siri: Yes, 10L Mars makes papargala on Jupiter in paka lagna of first> son. However Mars itself could be said to be multiply obstructed by planets> in 12th from Mars, i.e. Venus, Jupiter, Mercury.> Karu:If we stretch this rule like this we will never have a chance to use> argala any more. Argala from 2nd house can be obstructed only by 12th house.> Solai:I don't think Sat Siri is stretching the rule. I think she> misunderstood the obstruction concept. If we are seeing argala on house 'x'> say Libra, 2nd sign (or planets in 2nd sign) from Libra, i.e, Scorpio has> argala on Libra and 12th sign (or planets in 12th sign) from Libra, i.e.,> Virgo obstruct the argala of Scorpio. Not 12th sign from the 2nd sign. That> is Libra itself. A house cannot obstruct argala on its house. I hope I> didn't confuse further.> > Sat Siri wrote: Bhukti lord Mercury is lord of third from D-7 Lagna.> Solai: As this exercise is to understand the rules clearly, here we need to> get the correct rule. Because, as per lesson, " lords of 3rd and 8th house> from the Lagna". So, I think, it must be the Child's lagna. Not Saptamsa> lagna.> Sat Siri: Here you raise a point I had not thought of. I agree this needs> clarification. I prefer taking it from D-7 lagna itself but definitely stand> ready for correction. Now also, referring back to COVA it says on p. 185,> "The antardasa lord should be seen from trines to the lord of the issue or> its 7th or 12th house, or strong argalas." Here, if Jupiter is lord of the> first son, the antardasa could be Mercury which is lord of a trine to> Jupiter, Gemini , and the 12th from Jupiter, Virgo.> This seems to support that the 3rd 8th possibilities should be from D-7> lagna, not child's paka lagna. If from the Child's paka lagna you can take> 1st, 5th 9th 7th 12th, it seems unlikely to be also 3rd and 8th. It is> getting too diluted. That's half of the houses.> Karu: Did you think why lesson says 3rd /8th and why COVA says 7th and> 12th.?> 3rd and 8th is 4th and 11th to the 5th (forward count) such as for male and> odd lagna charts. 12th and 7th is 4th and 11th from 5th (reveres count) for> female and even lagna charts.> We have to work very hard to understand Gurudeva's writing. So antar dasa> could be a planet related to 4th and 11th house to 5th for 1st child. Now> you may have to find again the antar dasa of 2nd child.> Solai:Here is a confusion. The lesson says" lords of 3rd and 8th houses from> the lagna". Here it is not given whether it is Child's lagna or Saptamsa> lagna. And (as per Sat Siri, I don't have COVA yet) COVA says, "The> antardasa lord should be seen from trines to the lord of the issue or its> 7th or 12th house, or strong argalas."> So, as per lesson it is to be seen from lagna and as per COVA it is to be> seen from child's pakalagna. This is the basic difference.> Moreover, if you see 3rd house from 5th, it is 7th from the Saptamsa lagna.> Similarly, 8th from 5th house, it is 12th from Saptamsa lagna. So, both can> be same if we look at them from the lagna of child and Saptamsa lagna> respectively.> It can be like this, lords of 3rd/8th house from Child's lagna, 5th, 7th,> 9th house etc.,> AND/OR 7th/12th house from the Saptamsa lagna for the first child and there> after it should be every 3rd house from there. In this way both descriptions> are same.> Only Gurudeva can clarify this.> After this clarification, we can conclude between Cancer and Leo.> Thanks> Solai Kannan>> OM TAT SAT> Archive: varahamihira> Info: varahamihira/info.htmlOM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.html

[Guest guest]

Jaya Jaya Jagannath,

Dear Solai and Sat Siri,

 

Thank you very much for all who join our discussion on this. Now we have end up with Cancer and Leo as Saptamsa lagna for this case.

 

I believe, for finalize this discussion under mentioned way for our benefit.

 

There are lot of rules and principles to find. Without knowing this rules, better stop here for now. Now we have an idea about saptamsa. for example in Cancer lagna, effects of Mars could give results in a later stage, or could be some health problems later. I mean Cancer could be still OK.

 

So the best is study more. I like to do more charts to find about children with you all. If we able to finish 10-15 cases at least, we will definitely learn more. Then we go for Solai's case again.

 

To do this, I propose we will ask correct birth times with all details from our list. Our all Gurus must have their birth time corrected and we will ask them to send those for us. for example when we do Narasimha's chart, he too may be able to help us when we are in trouble.

 

I hope you all agree with me. If you agree please find some details for next case.

 

Thanks,

Hare Krshna,

 

Karu

 

 

OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH

JAYA JAGANNATHA

 

Namaste Sat Siri,

 

Summary is perfectly done by you. But, still I feel there is tie between Cancer and Leo. I am waiting for Karu's reply.

 

We are doing this exercise in one angle. I don't want to deviate from this. But, as a lateral thinking some thoughts come to me and I want to share this with you.

 

Why can't we take the Saptamsa chart and analyse the chart as a whole w.r.t to the lagna?

 

1.Say if it is Cancer, the lagna lord is exalted and has Rasi dhrishti from all the benefics, Jupiter, Mercury and Venus. And graha drishti from Saturn, Rahu and Mars. On the otherhand, if it is Leo, the lagna lord conjoined the malefic Rahu, it has Rasi drishti from Saturn and graha drishti from Jupiter and Mars.

What will these represent as a whole chart for each lagna?

 

2.In Saptamsa, lagna is the Self. What to see from the lagna? Lagna represents the relationship of the native with children. But, relationship will vary from child to child. So, we have to see the relationship of the child's lagna & lagna lord with the Saptamsa lagna & lagna lord. Am I correct?

 

Anyhow it is too early to judge the relationship with children. I mentioned here to know, whether my understanding is correct or not?

 

3.Is it possible to find the child's birth place, behavior, character from the child's lagna in Saptamsa? If so shall we try to resolve this issue in this way?

 

Mr.Karu, I reiterate that I am not deviating from the exercise we are doing. It is only different thinking.

 

I am awaiting for your, Mr.Karu's and other Gurus' reply in this regard.

 

Thanks

Solai Kannan

HARE RAMA KRISHNA HARE RAMA KRISHNA HARE RAMA KRISHNA HARE RAMA KRISHANA

 

 

 

 

Sat Siri Khalsa [satsiri]Tuesday, September 05, 2000 3:35 PMvarahamihira Subject: Re: [sri Guru] Reply to Karu & Sat Siri- Saptamsa - Case study-2

Namaste Solai and Karu, Thanks for your replies and I have had to reconsider and change opinions.Not everything on the rules about antardasas is still clear although your pointsbelow about 3rd/8th for males and 7th/12th for females is probably IT--I have toexperiment more with that. As for Karu's chart rectifiation Leo seems almost picture perfect, and Iwill re-summarize it:(remembering that birth should be timed from nadi sodhana, sometimes even whenwe think we have time recorded exactly we took it without waiting for thecutting of the cord and it should be few minutes later)For Leo, first son is Sagittarius with exalted Ketu.Paka Lagna is Jup in LibJup has argala on D-7 lord SunAstottari dasa Mars/JupMars has no argala on Sun but has argala on LeoJup is child's paka lagneshVimsottari dasa Jup/MerJup has argala on D-7 lord SunMercury is associated with paka lagnaTithi is Moon, lord of 10th from paka lagnaAsc. at birth is Libra, child's paka lagna although not kendra of father's D-7(Note: that issue about involvement of 6th lord on 5th or 10th lord on 9th alsoexists here, where Saturn's involvement on 5th house is more intense in thiscase--rasi, graha drishti and argala--- than in Cancer chart, 10th lord Mars'sargala on child's paka lagna. Perhaps exaltedKetu here overpowers Saturn's influence?)Second son is Aquarius.Paka Lagna is Rahu in GemRahu associates with D-7 lord SunAstottari dasa Mer/Mer.Mer has arg on D-7 lord SunMer rules child's paka lagnaVimsottari dasa Jup/SunJup has arg on D-7 lord SunSun is in child's paka lagnaTithi is Mars, which is in tenth from Aquarius, NOT tenth from paka lagnaSagittarius asc. at birth is kona of father's D-7Be well,Sat Nam Wahe Jio,Sat Siri KaurSolai Kannan wrote:>> OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH> JAYA JAGANNATHA> Namaste Karu and Sat Siri,> I cropped some of the agreed portions and combined some of the portions of> your mails.> I give the comments below.> Thanks> Solai Kannan> --------> Karu: Here I cannot understand why you neglect strong papargala from Mars on> 1st child. According to Cancer, 10th lord is maraka for 1st child.> Sat Siri: Yes, 10L Mars makes papargala on Jupiter in paka lagna of first> son. However Mars itself could be said to be multiply obstructed by planets> in 12th from Mars, i.e. Venus, Jupiter, Mercury.> Karu:If we stretch this rule like this we will never have a chance to use> argala any more. Argala from 2nd house can be obstructed only by 12th house.> Solai:I don't think Sat Siri is stretching the rule. I think she> misunderstood the obstruction concept. If we are seeing argala on house 'x'> say Libra, 2nd sign (or planets in 2nd sign) from Libra, i.e, Scorpio has> argala on Libra and 12th sign (or planets in 12th sign) from Libra, i.e.,> Virgo obstruct the argala of Scorpio. Not 12th sign from the 2nd sign. That> is Libra itself. A house cannot obstruct argala on its house. I hope I> didn't confuse further.> > Sat Siri wrote: Bhukti lord Mercury is lord of third from D-7 Lagna.> Solai: As this exercise is to understand the rules clearly, here we need to> get the correct rule. Because, as per lesson, " lords of 3rd and 8th house> from the Lagna " . So, I think, it must be the Child's lagna. Not Saptamsa> lagna.> Sat Siri: Here you raise a point I had not thought of. I agree this needs> clarification. I prefer taking it from D-7 lagna itself but definitely stand> ready for correction. Now also, referring back to COVA it says on p. 185,> " The antardasa lord should be seen from trines to the lord of the issue or> its 7th or 12th house, or strong argalas. " Here, if Jupiter is lord of the> first son, the antardasa could be Mercury which is lord of a trine to> Jupiter, Gemini , and the 12th from Jupiter, Virgo.> This seems to support that the 3rd 8th possibilities should be from D-7> lagna, not child's paka lagna. If from the Child's paka lagna you can take> 1st, 5th 9th 7th 12th, it seems unlikely to be also 3rd and 8th. It is> getting too diluted. That's half of the houses.> Karu: Did you think why lesson says 3rd /8th and why COVA says 7th and> 12th.?> 3rd and 8th is 4th and 11th to the 5th (forward count) such as for male and> odd lagna charts. 12th and 7th is 4th and 11th from 5th (reveres count) for> female and even lagna charts.> We have to work very hard to understand Gurudeva's writing. So antar dasa> could be a planet related to 4th and 11th house to 5th for 1st child. Now> you may have to find again the antar dasa of 2nd child.> Solai:Here is a confusion. The lesson says " lords of 3rd and 8th houses from> the lagna " . Here it is not given whether it is Child's lagna or Saptamsa> lagna. And (as per Sat Siri, I don't have COVA yet) COVA says, " The> antardasa lord should be seen from trines to the lord of the issue or its> 7th or 12th house, or strong argalas. " > So, as per lesson it is to be seen from lagna and as per COVA it is to be> seen from child's pakalagna. This is the basic difference.> Moreover, if you see 3rd house from 5th, it is 7th from the Saptamsa lagna.> Similarly, 8th from 5th house, it is 12th from Saptamsa lagna. So, both can> be same if we look at them from the lagna of child and Saptamsa lagna> respectively.> It can be like this, lords of 3rd/8th house from Child's lagna, 5th, 7th,> 9th house etc.,> AND/OR 7th/12th house from the Saptamsa lagna for the first child and there> after it should be every 3rd house from there. In this way both descriptions> are same.> Only Gurudeva can clarify this.> After this clarification, we can conclude between Cancer and Leo.> Thanks> Solai Kannan>> OM TAT SAT> Archive: varahamihira> Info: varahamihira/info.htmlOM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.htmlOM TAT SATArchive: varahamihiraInfo: varahamihira/info.html