Guest guest Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 || Om gurave Namah || Namaste, I am not sure if Guruji is reading mails in Vedic AStrology List so forwarding this here. Thank you Warm regards Sanjay P vedic astrology , " sanjayprabhakaran " <sanjaychettiar@g...> wrote: || Om Gurave Namah || Namaste Narasimha garu and Friends, > Now, the obvious question is: " If Sc covers genitals, anus and " 4 angulas " between them, why is the middle point of them shown by the end of Scorpio rather than the middle of Scorpio??? " > I wanted to express a point. My understanding is, The Nakshatra Layout can be different from Rashi Chakra, So the mapping the Nakshatra's body parts can be differently placed in the Rashi mandala. There are many forms the Nakshatra mandala can take, Since Nakshatra mandala denotes the Prakriti, She gives the bodies to all beings. This the fundamental reason why we have many Diagrams of both living and non living beings drawn with Nakshatra. Like, 1. Shoola Chakra: Nakshatras drawn in the form of Trishoola. 2. Dimbha Chakra: Nakshatras drawn in the form of Boy. 3. Koorma Chakra: Naskatras forming a Tortoise. 4. Simhaasana Chakra: Nakshatras Forming a Thorne. 5. Kaalachakra: Nakshatras forming Kaala Chakra. 6. Kumbha Chakra: Drawn as Pot. 7. Sarvotobhadra Chakra: Auspicious Chakra etc etc But they can Map differently to Rashi Chakra which is Kaala Purusha. The physical body is given by Prakrithi (Nakshatra) Which is can be very different from Kaala Purusha RAshi Chakra. The Exaltation nakshtra of Sun, Ashwinin Nakshatra can be used as basis for mapping on basis of Sun. Zero degree Aries. Like the mapping in Rashi Chakra The Exaltation nakshatra of Moon, Krittika Nakshatra ruled by Brahma can be used while mapping Moon based. Like in case of Sarvotobhadra chakra. So Nakhshatra's can be mapped in many way to Rashi chakra and deciding the Ayanamsha based on Nakshatra looks fallible to me. My point is Ayanamsha should be based on Narayana, The representation of Sun is Narayana for this Loka. The Rashi chakra is based Sun. Many I think would agree to this. Warm Regards Sanjay P Hare Rama Krishna vedic astrology , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@c...> wrote: > Namaste Sreenadh, > > Due to the paucity of time, I have to keep it very short and focussed for now. > > > clear picture. As per Siva-samhitha- > > Gudathudhyanguladoordhvam mendrathudhyanguladadha > > Chathurangula vistharamadharam varthathe samam > > 'Above 2 angulas from anus and below 2 angulas from > > genitals Mooladhara is located. It covers an area of 4 > > angulas' > > Therefore it is clear that, Mooladhara is at the > > middle of Anus and genitals. > > Some points: > > (1) What I said is that Mooladhara chakra is situated at the base of the spine. That basically points to an area a little above anus. So the above quote is not at all inconsistent with what I said. > > (2) The idea I vehemently opposed is that Mooladhara chakra is in linga (genitals). Even the quote you gave confirms that Mooladhara chakra is NOT in linga (because it is supposed to be " 2 angulas " *below* linga)! Thanks for giving a quote that supports my view. :-) > > (3) Then Pradeep asked: " Why the Kundalini is depicted as sleeping round the Lingam in Tantra works " . I strongly oppose the idea that that Lingam that Kundalini is depicted to be coiling in Tantra works is the external and physical lingam (genitals). The quote you give also should make it amply clear that the lingam depicted in Tantra works is something else and not the bahya lingam that is " 2 angulas " above Mooladhara chakra. Please do give a consideration to the understanding I shared of the 3 internal lingas situated in the Mooladhara, Anahata and Ajna chakras. > > (4) The 6th, 7th and 8th houses are tricky. Identifying the exact areas of human anatomy represented by them is not straight-forward. They are all crowded and cover a small area. The 6th house is supposed to show the lower abdomen, the 7th house is supposed to show basti (the sack/bladder that contains various internal organs near genitals and anus) and the 8th house is supposed show genitals and anus. If the 5th and 6th houses show upper abdomen and lower abdomen, what exactly does basti (7th house) show? > > In my view, 8th house shows external organs such as anus and genitals, while the 7th house shows various internal organs in their vicinity. Thus, the mooladhara chakra area outlined in the verse above does fall in basti area in my view. > > However, to keep the argument simple, let us *assume* that all body parts from genitals to anus are covered by the 8th house (Sc). So, we will *assume* that Mooladhara chakra, which is " 2 angulas " below genitals and " 2 angulas " above anus, ends up being represented by Scorpio. > > Now, the obvious question is: " If Sc covers genitals, anus and " 4 angulas " between them, why is the middle point of them shown by the end of Scorpio rather than the middle of Scorpio??? " > > > The 14 Lokas and 14 Chakras > > --------------------------- > > Are we speaking of astrology or some concepts in > > Bhagavathaam? (When we speak about astrology we should > > quote astrological texts). PVR just got irritated by > > the word Linga. > > How do you know whether or not I was irritated and by what word? Are you a mind-reader? :-) > > Seriously, I was not irritated by the word Linga at all. > > I merely took a strong exception to the suggestion that Mooladhara chakra is situated in Linga. > > The external lingam is a symbol that everybody can understand. But the three internal lingas I mentioned are more subtle and only some can understand them. If I get lost in the external symbol, I will only miss the true meaning of Linga and the true nature of Shiva. > > > Pradeep is saying " SANKARA is FINAL, > > fix your mind in HIM " . Are we into some Vishnava-Saiva > > controversy? > > PVR argues like an ISKONist who putting aside texts > > like Njaneswari and Geetha-rahasyam find trust in > > 'Real'-Geetha, and finds an investment there-in. One > > whose religion comes from outside and not from > > with-in. (Are you an ISKON devotee?). > > To answer your irrelevant question, I do not belong to ISKCON. However, there are several ISKCON devotees on this list and please be considerate (I am saying this as the list admin). It is not acceptable to dismiss any group on this public list. Please show some restraint in future and do not make such derisive dismissals of any group of people. Please show courtesy in a public forum like this. > > When the issue of Shiva vs Vishnu came up on this list in the past and some people ruled Shiva inferior, I was a vehement voice against them. You can see it in the archives. I am a devotee of Lakshmi, Narayana and Shiva and have no biases. To me, all Gods are various faces (with gunas) of the same supreme divinity (with no gunas). > > > See this > > statement of PVR - " I know for a fact where MY > > Mooladhara chakra is and ......... " I don't think you > > know. > > I sincerely apologize for that arrogant statement. > > > To PVR I would like to say - " It is not possible that > > you are not knowing all this even after doing such an > > in-depth study on astrology. If you are putting wrong > > arguments (that are against ancient authorities) even > > after knowing all this then you are doing a sin, which > > is not at all good for a follower of truth " . > > I never claimed having done an " in-depth study on astrology " . I am only a seeker of truth who has read a little, heard a little, thought a little, understood a little and tried to share a little with others. > > If people take me more seriously than they should and start analyzing my motives etc, it is their problem! > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > vedic astrology , sree nadh <sreelid> wrote: > > To PVR, Pradeep and all others who are listening to > > this conversation, > > ====================================================================== > > In a previous mail to PVR I said, > > >The Vyenjanm (Linga of Kalapurusha) is ascribed to > > Scorpio (210 deg -240 deg). > > >Certainly Mooladharam of Kalapurusha should come in > > that region, is it not so? > > This statement says, " Mooladharam should come in the > > 210-240 deg region (as per Varaha-hora) " . Now just see > > how PVR twists that statement. > > > The point 240 deg is the end of genitals and > > beginning of thighs. > > > It is not at all true that Kala Purusha's mooladhara > > chakra is in his linga (genitals). > > >To me, Mooladhara chakra of Kala Purusha being at 240 > > deg or being at the end of his > > >genitals is a totally unappealing concept. > > Now just see what response he gets from Pradeep? > > >Dear Narasimhaji, > > >If thighs begin after genitals, how do we align or > > locate genitals is going to be an interesting > > question. Do we have to wait until the end of genitals > > (depending on the length) to begin thighs!!! > > One gets what he gives!!! That is to PVR. But please > > stop all these nonsense. Are we here to discuss the > > length of genitals or to discuss astrology? With due > > respect I would appeal to Pradeep, dear Pradeep please > > don't use such language. There is one sloka in > > Yoga-vasishta- > > Nanu tharkkikthamethe nasaneeya prebudhatha > > 'Using the wrong arguments don't destroy the rising > > of mind towards truth' > > Let us go back to astrology. For clarificaion let us > > subdivide the subject into many. > > 1) Does Moola star qualify to be the fixed reference > > for zodiac division? > > 2) Where Mooladhara is located in human body? > > 3) Does the Sastharas propose a one to one > > correspondence of Human-body and Kalapurusha? > > 4) Where should come the Mooladhara of Kalapurusha? > > 1) Does Moola star qualify to be the fixed reference > > for zodiac division? > > ------- > > Moola means root. Root of what? Moola is part of > > zodiac division. So it is simple to understand that > > Moola means 'The root of zodiac division'. It is the > > base star, which is, used as a reference for the fixed > > zodiac division, which is used as a fixed reference > > frame to, assesses the movement of Sun, Moon, Planets, > > Nodes etc. Moola star is located very near to the > > center of our galaxy, Milky Way. It (Moola stellar > > division) is the root from which the whole Milky Way > > sprung up. See the name of stellar division next to > > Moola star - 'Jyeshta' (Meaning eldest or first). > > Therefore Moola star well qualifies to be the root of > > zodiac division. (There is no other stellar division > > with such clear etymological connotation) Zodiac is > > the fixed reference frame using which calendar > > phenomena such as movements of planets are assessed. > > Therefore one should make it clear in his mind that - > > Moola - means 'Root of zodiac division' > > Jyeshta - means 'The first stellar division' > > 2) Where Mooladhara is located in human body? > > ------------ > > Mooladhara, Swadhishtana etc are all words related to > > Yoga. Therefore let us look at the Yoga books to get a > > clear picture. As per Siva-samhitha- > > Gudathudhyanguladoordhvam mendrathudhyanguladadha > > Chathurangula vistharamadharam varthathe samam > > 'Above 2 angulas from anus and below 2 angulas from > > genitals Mooladhara is located. It covers an area of 4 > > angulas' > > Therefore it is clear that, Mooladhara is at the > > middle of Anus and genitals. Even though Pradeep says > > that 'this is not I have read anywhere, but just my > > feeling', just see how clearly he puts it. He says, > > " Identified by Yoga as the 'Root Chakra', this > > Aura-center is located just below the base of the > > spine, between the anus and sexual organs " . Certainly > > it neither the end of genitals, nor in basti (the area > > just above genitals). I would suggest PVR to read Yoga > > texts or Upanishads like Yoga-thathvopanishad, > > Yoga-rajopanishad, Yoga-chaoodamani upanishad etc > > before making such absurd statements. See this > > statement of PVR - " I know for a fact where MY > > Mooladhara chakra is and ......... " I don't think you > > know. Not only you are denying all the upanishads on > > this but also the Yoga system. See that big MY in > > which nothing but ego is reflected. > > 3) Does the Sastharas propose an one to one > > correspondence of Human-body and Kalapurusha? > > --\ --------- > > The whole Indian culture speaks about the one to one > > correspondence of the Universe and Human body (The one > > to one correspondence of the Macrocosm and Microcosm). > > PVR also states the same thing - 'The way I see it, > > one's body is a microcosm of the Brahmanda > > (Universe)'. For astrology universe means the zodiac. > > The whole zodiac is nothing but the parts of body of > > Kalapurusha. Therefore, in astrology we use to > > consider an one to one correspondence of Kalapurusha > > (Zodiac) and Human body. See this statement in > > Saravali - > > Kalanarasyavayaval purushanam kalpayel > > Presavakele pushimchopadravaschethi > > 'Considering the body parts of Kalapurusha, we can > > predict the good/bad things connected with the body of > > the child, at the time of birth'. > > Both PVR and Pradeep are well aware of this. As > > Pradeep puts it - " Now we know Kalapurusha and Human > > body has one to one correspondence as per Jyothisha-Am > > I wrong? " See his humbleness in putting forward an > > already known fact. > > 4) Where should come the Mooladhara of Kalapurusha? > > ------------------ > > Now if we accept that 'The Kalapurusha and Human body > > has one to one correspondence', where should come the > > Mooladhara? As per Siva-samhitha it should be " Below 2 > > angulas from genitals " . From the sloka " Kalangani > > varangamana muro... " of Varaha-hora, it is clear that > > it should come in the sign Scorpio (Vrischika). > > Because in this sloka the Vyenjanm (Linga/genitals of > > Kalapurusha) is ascribed to Scorpio (210 deg -240 > > deg). Now Mooladharam is below the genitals of > > Kalapurusha and certainly above thighs (The sign > > Sagittarius - Dhanu). In the junction of Scorpio and > > Sagittarius we see the Moola star. Also considering > > the fact that it is the root from which the whole > > milky way sprung-up, can any objective scholar of > > astrology, deny the correlation of Moola star and > > Mooladharam? It is a lost link of zodiac division that > > Hari restores. (Instead of just saying that the zodiac > > division occurred considering the Mooladhara of > > Kalapurusha, he mathematically shows as how it is > > done, and reveals the theoretical foundation as per > > Surya-sidhantha. Shouldn't we appreciate his efforts?) > > As far as Bhavas are concerned, look at the sloka - > > Moordhasya gala skankdha hridayodara vasthidesa > > guhyani > > Ooru janu jenkhe padou Bhava kredadya legnadya > > (Jathakadesam) > > In this sloka 'guhya' (Anus/Linga region) is ascribed > > to 8th, and Ooru (Thighs) are ascribed to 9th. > > Mooladharam should come in the junction of this means, > > it should be in the junction of 8th and 9th Bhava. > > (Don't mix-up Kalapurusha and Bhavapurusha) > > To PVR I would like to say - " It is not possible that > > you are not knowing all this even after doing such an > > in-depth study on astrology. If you are putting wrong > > arguments (that are against ancient authorities) even > > after knowing all this then you are doing a sin, which > > is not at all good for a follower of truth " . > > Now what about PVR's argument that Mooladhara is at > > the basti area (180 deg) of Kalapurusha? Just look at > > the fact, PVR's Kalapurusha has got 2 Mooladharas, 2 > > Manipoorakas etc. Have we ever seen or heard of such a > > thing? I would ask why stop at 2, why don't 5, 10, > > 100, or 1000? As Veda says 'Sahasra seersha > > purusha...', 1000 would be a better option. OK. Leave > > it. Taking the conversation to a communicable level, I > > should be better ask, " Dear PVR can you quote your > > authorities? " , " Which are the slokas you base your > > assumptions upon? " . If there is sufficient authority > > to this argument, we should drop our prejudice and > > accept it as another possibility. We have got 10ths of > > Desa systems, many methods to find Arooda lagna, many > > methods to fix numbers, many methods for birth > > rectification, thousands of gods etc, then it is also > > a possibility. But still if you want me or others to > > accept your argument as one of the possibilities, then > > you should quote your authorities. Astrology is a > > branch of knowledge based on ancient advice. Therefore > > the Kalaprekasika sloka - > > Jyothisham vyevaharam cha prayaschitham chikithsakam > > Vina sasthrena yo brooyath thamahur brahmakhathakam > > 'Who ever is speaking about astrology, judiciary, > > Tantric worships and medicine with out proper > > authority, he is a sinner more than one who kills > > Brahmans'. > > Jyothisha vyevaharadeen sasthramalochya yo vadeth > > Asvamedhadhikam punyam prahusthasya maneeshina > > 'Who ever is speaking about astrology, judiciary etc > > based on proper authority, he will attain more punya > > than one who does great yagas'. > > OK. Hope PVR will come out with sufficient > > explanation. > > The 14 Lokas and 14 Chakras > > --------------------------- > > Are we speaking of astrology or some concepts in > > Bhagavathaam? (When we speak about astrology we should > > quote astrological texts). PVR just got irritated by > > the word Linga. Pradeep is saying " SANKARA is FINAL, > > fix your mind in HIM " . Are we into some Vishnava-Saiva > > controversy? > > PVR argues like an ISKONist who putting aside texts > > like Njaneswari and Geetha-rahasyam find trust in > > 'Real'-Geetha, and finds an investment there-in. One > > whose religion comes from outside and not from > > with-in. (Are you an ISKON devotee?). It is a matter > > of private faith. One shouldn't question. Pradeep > > seems to be a worshipper of Siva. If it going to be > > some Vishnava-Saiva controversy, I am not interested > > in. Only thing I would like to quote is - > > Yo hi vishnussa evathma yo hyathma sa maheswara > > Vishnvathma sabdou paryayou yedha vitapi padapou > > Athmaiva devo bhagavan siva parama karana > > This sloka is from Yoga-vasishtam. Which says that > > Vishnu, Athma and Maheswara (Siva) are the different > > names for one and the same entity. If PVR turns out to > > be an ISKON devotee, I don't want to continue this > > discussion on lokas/chakras. Because it is pretty > > difficult to change the belief of one, who ardently > > and blindly believe in something. Blunt logic will try > > to deny everything that is against his belief system. > > (I am just interested in astrology and not in one's > > religion, which is altogether a private affair). > > What PVR has done is the use of logic to link 14 > > lokas and 14(!!) chakras. (I have only heard about 7 > > chakras. Dear PVR please take time to name these 14 > > chakras. We would be greatly interested in knowing > > their name) I would again ask what is the sloka that > > could be quoted as authority? > > Conclusion > > ---------- > > Dear PVR, if we could find this much inconsistencies > > and weak links in a small mail written by you, how > > could you expect not even a single weak link in Hari's > > arguments? We are taught to praise the gems even if > > they are found in a heap of waste. To quote your words > > - " Chandrahari's writings are full of brilliant points > > linked by very weak links which I have to take a leap > > of faith to accept " . That means you are trying to find > > waste material from a heap of gems!! You say that " I > > am fully convinced that it is wrong " . Please, please > > don't get convinced so easily!! You don't even have > > the fullest understanding of the mathematical or > > theoretical foundation of Hari's works. You haven't > > even read a single book by Hari (This might be wrong, > > but probably right), but just some of his articles!! > > And you are fully convinced!! How?! I cannot but quote > > a sloka - > > uchasthram sasthritham chethi dvidham pourusham > > smritham > > thathroschsthramanardhaya paramardhaya sasthritham > > (Yoga vasishtham) > > 'There are 2 paths for will - One goes in the path of > > truth, and the other in the path of falsehood. The > > will that follows the path of truth will take you to > > truth, and the other to every kind of difficulty'. > > Discarding to the path prescribed by the ancient > > authorities on astrology, if you are trying to create > > your own path, you will end up in creating a > > fake-system which in due time gets discarded. Please, > > you are a person with genuine genius, and very > > knowledgeable, please don't deviate from the path of > > truth, just to safeguard some belief-systems. Let > > goddess Saraswathy bless us all. > > You can block me, or Pradeep from posting mails as > > you are running this forum, but you cannot block your > > own mind, part of which has a twist towards truth. At > > the end, it is good to hear your words " You and > > Chandra Hari seem sincere and knowledgeable. Though we > > have an irreconcilable and fundamental difference of > > view in this matter, I hope that we can continue to > > respect each other and remain as well wishers of each > > other. After all we are all pursuing the same Truth. > > Each individual has a separate path that one is > > destined to follow, before finding that same Truth! " . > > Sounds good. Pradeep's sincere words are also > > important as it says - " Narasimhaji I request you to > > respect all Gurus from whom you gained knowledge. But > > their words are not final " . Yes because there are > > other paths as well!! > > I request other learned members to share their views. > > > > With warm regards, > > Sreenadh (Sreelid) --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 || Om Gurave Namah || Namaste, > The Exaltation nakshatra of Moon, Krittika Nakshatra ruled by Brahma Please accept correction, Krittika ruled by Agni, Krittika is Exaltaion nakshatra for Moon 3rd degree of Taurus Thank you Warm Regards Sanjay P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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