question regarding dictum - Ju in 5th Example Charts

August 20, 2005

Jaya Jagannatha

Dear Sanjay, Namaste

I did some research and extracted example charts of other people with Ju in 5th who were either famous/artistic or had famous children. I didnt have the time to convert the charts to JHL, but ive put the data in a spread sheet for easy reference.

Hope this will asist with the discussion on Ju in 5th

Regards

Bipin

-

Guru Sanjay Rath

sohamsa

Friday, August 19, 2005 11:42 PM

RE: question regarding dictum

|om namo bhagavate vasudevaya|

Dear Bipin

The dictum does not give any case for cancellation - you have extended this to over ride the stated rule.

What about Motilal Nehru - father of Pt Jawaharlal Nehru. Pisces lagna with Jup in 5 having an illustrious son

Rabindranath Tagore with a similar combination had a son and a daughter

L.K.Advani (politician India) has children

....there are so many cases I can cite with fifth house Jupiter giving children

With best wishes and warm regards,

Sanjay Rath

* * *

Sri Jagannath Center®

15B Gangaram Hospital Road

New Delhi 110060, India

http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

* * *

sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Bipin PragFriday, August 19, 2005 9:15 AMsohamsa Subject: Re: question regarding dictum

Dear Partha & Gaurav

I have been following this interesting discussion re Ju in 5th. I have also read many other Jyotish authors mentioning this 'dictum' but none of them gave the source.

My understanding is that even if there is a dictum, one always has to look at other factors affecting the planet and house. What if Ju is exalted or in own sign in Nav. Surely, Jupiter's effects on the native will be different

Further, I have Ju in 5th Gemini and been blessed with 2 boys. As a matter of interest just as I entered my Ju Mahadasha my eldest son was born. Im my case Ju is in mutual exchange with Me in 2nd, so maybe this 'cancels' the effect of the dictum if one exists.

My personal experience with Ju has not been what some of the authors have described. I dont think Brihaspati as teacher of the Devas has a quality to deny (children in this case if in 5th) Ketu as said earlier does that

Looking forward to further clarity on this dictum

Regards

Bipin

-

yobrevol

sohamsa

Friday, August 19, 2005 3:03 PM

Re: question regarding dictum

|| Hare Rama Krishna ||

Namaste Sanjay Ji,

I do not have the "source" of the dictum, but I was basing my query on the following e-mail (below are excepts posted by the learned Shri. Hemant trivedi ji, and I quote) and a lengthy discussion in the forum some while ago where the learned were doing manthan on this. Kindly enlighten me.

Namaste

Gaurav Jain

-------------------------------excepts of the mail---------------------------

" Jupiter, the planet shares the same name Guru , meaning Large as Guru meaning Teacher. At some point of time, Guru the planet, Guru , the teacher and Brihaspati, the Teacher of immortal Devas became one .Brihaspati, the Deva Guru , supposed to be of most benign nature, pious,intelligent, Brahmin, was given many portfolios. Out of that, portfolios of 2nd houseand 5th house were also given to him. But Guru, even though was made karaka for house of wealth, whenever he was in 2nd bhava, the man turned into a pauper lost wealth or suffered financially.He was given karakatva of 5th house , Santana Bhava.But when he sits in Santana Bhava, he is found to bring the lineage to the end.The person becomes childless.How can a minister of finance occupying his own office in the place ruled by him destroy the finances of the country ?How can the Putra Karaka deny a son to the person if in 5th bhava?They also found that BAD Sani , increased wealth when in 2nd bhava.It is like a Menial low caste servant occupying the seat of finance in the ministry increase the wealth of the country. !!!How paradoxical !!!!So the old Astrologers belonging to Brihaspati's kula (Brahmins) made a rule to explain.BHAVA NASH KARO JEEVA,BHAVA VRIDDHHI KARAU SHANI:Meaning, Jupiter destroys the bhava he occupies and saturn increases the bhava he occupies.I remember the story of olden times when a child wants Moon, the mother brings a plate of water and asks the child to take the reflection of Moon."And since the child believes in Mother, he accepts that moon and stops crying. People accepted all the so called Exceptions to the rule without questioning. In respect to Brihaspati, I found that he is a misfit in most of the places he sits.According to my thinking, Guru acts as a Parasite , and draws strength from the house he occupies and distributes its goodness in form of aspectual fruits.In my original research on Planets and Element's Periodic table,Jupiter becomes the lord of 6th Group.JUPITER AS LORD OF 6th GROUP Jupiter means JEEVA, meaning LIFE. He is the savior of Life on earth. Oxygen means Life. No Oxygen means no life. You find oxygen in 6th group. In astrology, Guru's aspect removes all problems and prevents Balarishta (Infant Mortality).Jupiter is Yellow in colour , he adores yellow clothes. His stone is Yellow sapphire. He resides in a ASTHAKONA HOUSE.You will find Yellow Sulphur listed in this group. Outermost shell has 8 electrons. So he resides in ASHTKONA house. Chromium salts are yellow.Oxygen in moderation gives life.But same oxygen kills at higher doses.Water is disinfected using over dose of oxygen .!!Excess amount of oxygen in form of FREE RADICALS has been found to be extremely harmful to human/all living things. Free Radicals have been found to lower immunity and accelerate ageing process.And this is the handywork of Planet known as JEEVA.I am posting on effects of Guru in 2nd,5th 9th and 10th houses today to illustrate that he destroys the houses which he occupies.EFFECT OF GURU IN 5TH HOUSE.Male DOB: 28.9.1954TOB: 18.30 HrsPOB: MadrasAsc: PiscesKetu: GeminiJupiter: CancerMoon,Sun: VirgoSat/Merc/Ven: LibraRahu/Mars: SaggitariusMark Guru in cancer a Female sign in 5th where Guru is in exaltation.He has malefics in 10th house which denotes no progeny to light funeral pyre.This person is childless even after two marriages.CASE # IIMaleDOB: 6TH July 1935Tob : 5.34 AMPOB: Teng-t'a101 E 1236 N 32Gemini: AscGemini: Sun/Merc/KetuLeo: Moon/venusVirgo : MarsLibra : JupiterSaggi: RahuAquarius: SaturnThis person has Guru in 5th house.He is unmarried and has no children due to religious abstinence.This horoscope belongs to His Holiness Dalai Lama.CASE # IIIGURU IN 2ND HOUSE DHANA BHAVAMALE Born ...10th Nov 1955 Janma Lagna KatakaVrishabha...........ketuSimha ..............GuruKanya...............Moon, MarsTula................Saturn, Mercury, SunVrischik............Rahu , Shukra VIMSHOTTARI DASAS EXPERIENCED SO FAR,Moon, Mars, Rahu, Guru (Presently).This person has Guru in 2nd house in Leo.RESULT:The jataka , except for a very brief period in Guru dasa, has failed in everything he has done. Extremely bad with money. Owes people huge sums, no property , no permenet jobs, avoided by world and also his own family.poverty does not leave him and presently looked after by father inlaw.GURU IN 8TH , AYUSHYA BHAVA.Guru is termed as Jeeva, Ayushya karaka, remover of illness, when comes and occupies 8th bhava, destroys the Ayushya or Life of a person.I will give two examples of such people who were killed by Guru.CASE #1Male:DOB: 27.3.1972TOB: 9.07 AMPOB: Udaipur RajasthanTaurus: AscTaurus: Mars/SatCancer: KetuLeo: MoonSaggi: JupiterCapri: RahuPisces: Sun/MercMark presence of Guru in the 8th bhava. The person died in a tragic road accident in year 2001. "*******************************************************************The e-mail and attachments are confidential and intended only for selected recipients. If you have received it in error, you may not in any way disclose or rely on the contents. You may not keep, copy or distribute the e-mail. Should you receive it, immediately notify the sender of the error and delete the e-mail.Also note that this form of communication is not secure, it can be intercepted, and may not necessarily be free of errors and viruses in spite of reasonable efforts to secure this medium.*******************************************************************

August 21, 2005

|om namo bhagavate vasudevaya|

Dear Bipin

That is excellent research but we need some real concrete finding about what it means to have jup in 5th.

With best wishes and warm regards,

Sanjay Rath

* * *

Sri Jagannath Center®

15B Gangaram Hospital Road

New Delhi 110060, India

http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

* * *

sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Bipin PragSaturday, August 20, 2005 4:14 AMsohamsa Subject: Re: question regarding dictum - Ju in 5th Example Charts

Jaya Jagannatha

Dear Sanjay, Namaste

I did some research and extracted example charts of other people with Ju in 5th who were either famous/artistic or had famous children. I didnt have the time to convert the charts to JHL, but ive put the data in a spread sheet for easy reference.

Hope this will asist with the discussion on Ju in 5th

Regards

Bipin

-

Guru Sanjay Rath

sohamsa

Friday, August 19, 2005 11:42 PM

RE: question regarding dictum

|om namo bhagavate vasudevaya|

Dear Bipin

The dictum does not give any case for cancellation - you have extended this to over ride the stated rule.

What about Motilal Nehru - father of Pt Jawaharlal Nehru. Pisces lagna with Jup in 5 having an illustrious son

Rabindranath Tagore with a similar combination had a son and a daughter

L.K.Advani (politician India) has children

....there are so many cases I can cite with fifth house Jupiter giving children

With best wishes and warm regards,

Sanjay Rath

* * *

Sri Jagannath Center®

15B Gangaram Hospital Road

New Delhi 110060, India

http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

* * *

sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Bipin PragFriday, August 19, 2005 9:15 AMsohamsa Subject: Re: question regarding dictum

Dear Partha & Gaurav

I have been following this interesting discussion re Ju in 5th. I have also read many other Jyotish authors mentioning this 'dictum' but none of them gave the source.

My understanding is that even if there is a dictum, one always has to look at other factors affecting the planet and house. What if Ju is exalted or in own sign in Nav. Surely, Jupiter's effects on the native will be different

Further, I have Ju in 5th Gemini and been blessed with 2 boys. As a matter of interest just as I entered my Ju Mahadasha my eldest son was born. Im my case Ju is in mutual exchange with Me in 2nd, so maybe this 'cancels' the effect of the dictum if one exists.

My personal experience with Ju has not been what some of the authors have described. I dont think Brihaspati as teacher of the Devas has a quality to deny (children in this case if in 5th) Ketu as said earlier does that

Looking forward to further clarity on this dictum

Regards

Bipin

-

yobrevol

sohamsa

Friday, August 19, 2005 3:03 PM

Re: question regarding dictum

|| Hare Rama Krishna ||

Namaste Sanjay Ji,

I do not have the "source" of the dictum, but I was basing my query on the following e-mail (below are excepts posted by the learned Shri. Hemant trivedi ji, and I quote) and a lengthy discussion in the forum some while ago where the learned were doing manthan on this. Kindly enlighten me.

Namaste

Gaurav Jain

-------------------------------excepts of the mail---------------------------

" Jupiter, the planet shares the same name Guru , meaning Large as Guru meaning Teacher. At some point of time, Guru the planet, Guru , the teacher and Brihaspati, the Teacher of immortal Devas became one .Brihaspati, the Deva Guru , supposed to be of most benign nature, pious,intelligent, Brahmin, was given many portfolios. Out of that, portfolios of 2nd houseand 5th house were also given to him. But Guru, even though was made karaka for house of wealth, whenever he was in 2nd bhava, the man turned into a pauper lost wealth or suffered financially.He was given karakatva of 5th house , Santana Bhava.But when he sits in Santana Bhava, he is found to bring the lineage to the end.The person becomes childless.How can a minister of finance occupying his own office in the place ruled by him destroy the finances of the country ?How can the Putra Karaka deny a son to the person if in 5th bhava?They also found that BAD Sani , increased wealth when in 2nd bhava.It is like a Menial low caste servant occupying the seat of finance in the ministry increase the wealth of the country. !!!How paradoxical !!!!So the old Astrologers belonging to Brihaspati's kula (Brahmins) made a rule to explain.BHAVA NASH KARO JEEVA,BHAVA VRIDDHHI KARAU SHANI:Meaning, Jupiter destroys the bhava he occupies and saturn increases the bhava he occupies.I remember the story of olden times when a child wants Moon, the mother brings a plate of water and asks the child to take the reflection of Moon."And since the child believes in Mother, he accepts that moon and stops crying. People accepted all the so called Exceptions to the rule without questioning. In respect to Brihaspati, I found that he is a misfit in most of the places he sits.According to my thinking, Guru acts as a Parasite , and draws strength from the house he occupies and distributes its goodness in form of aspectual fruits.In my original research on Planets and Element's Periodic table,Jupiter becomes the lord of 6th Group.JUPITER AS LORD OF 6th GROUP Jupiter means JEEVA, meaning LIFE. He is the savior of Life on earth. Oxygen means Life. No Oxygen means no life. You find oxygen in 6th group. In astrology, Guru's aspect removes all problems and prevents Balarishta (Infant Mortality).Jupiter is Yellow in colour , he adores yellow clothes. His stone is Yellow sapphire. He resides in a ASTHAKONA HOUSE.You will find Yellow Sulphur listed in this group. Outermost shell has 8 electrons. So he resides in ASHTKONA house. Chromium salts are yellow.Oxygen in moderation gives life.But same oxygen kills at higher doses.Water is disinfected using over dose of oxygen .!!Excess amount of oxygen in form of FREE RADICALS has been found to be extremely harmful to human/all living things. Free Radicals have been found to lower immunity and accelerate ageing process.And this is the handywork of Planet known as JEEVA.I am posting on effects of Guru in 2nd,5th 9th and 10th houses today to illustrate that he destroys the houses which he occupies.EFFECT OF GURU IN 5TH HOUSE.Male DOB: 28.9.1954TOB: 18.30 HrsPOB: MadrasAsc: PiscesKetu: GeminiJupiter: CancerMoon,Sun: VirgoSat/Merc/Ven: LibraRahu/Mars: SaggitariusMark Guru in cancer a Female sign in 5th where Guru is in exaltation.He has malefics in 10th house which denotes no progeny to light funeral pyre.This person is childless even after two marriages.CASE # IIMaleDOB: 6TH July 1935Tob : 5.34 AMPOB: Teng-t'a101 E 1236 N 32Gemini: AscGemini: Sun/Merc/KetuLeo: Moon/venusVirgo : MarsLibra : JupiterSaggi: RahuAquarius: SaturnThis person has Guru in 5th house.He is unmarried and has no children due to religious abstinence.This horoscope belongs to His Holiness Dalai Lama.CASE # IIIGURU IN 2ND HOUSE DHANA BHAVAMALE Born ...10th Nov 1955 Janma Lagna KatakaVrishabha...........ketuSimha ..............GuruKanya...............Moon, MarsTula................Saturn, Mercury, SunVrischik............Rahu , Shukra VIMSHOTTARI DASAS EXPERIENCED SO FAR,Moon, Mars, Rahu, Guru (Presently).This person has Guru in 2nd house in Leo.RESULT:The jataka , except for a very brief period in Guru dasa, has failed in everything he has done. Extremely bad with money. Owes people huge sums, no property , no permenet jobs, avoided by world and also his own family.poverty does not leave him and presently looked after by father inlaw.GURU IN 8TH , AYUSHYA BHAVA.Guru is termed as Jeeva, Ayushya karaka, remover of illness, when comes and occupies 8th bhava, destroys the Ayushya or Life of a person.I will give two examples of such people who were killed by Guru.CASE #1Male:DOB: 27.3.1972TOB: 9.07 AMPOB: Udaipur RajasthanTaurus: AscTaurus: Mars/SatCancer: KetuLeo: MoonSaggi: JupiterCapri: RahuPisces: Sun/MercMark presence of Guru in the 8th bhava. The person died in a tragic road accident in year 2001. "*******************************************************************The e-mail and attachments are confidential and intended only for selected recipients. If you have received it in error, you may not in any way disclose or rely on the contents. You may not keep, copy or distribute the e-mail. Should you receive it, immediately notify the sender of the error and delete the e-mail.Also note that this form of communication is not secure, it can be intercepted, and may not necessarily be free of errors and viruses in spite of reasonable efforts to secure this medium.*******************************************************************