question regarding dictum - To Gaurav

August 20, 2005

|| Hare Rama Krishna ||Namaste Sourav Ji,

That what you say is precisely what I am trying learn from you all, the correct understanding of the dictum and the source of the dictum.Namaste,Gaurav Jain

August 20, 2005

|| Hare Rama Krishna ||

Dear Gaurav, Namaskar. Kindly see below my comments/notes about the examples you have given for your thumb-rule.

Best Regards,

Sourav==================================================================

> I am posting on effects of Guru in 2nd,5th 9th and 10th houses today > to illustrate that he destroys the houses which he occupies.> > EFFECT OF GURU IN 5TH HOUSE.> > Male > DOB: 28.9.1954> TOB: 18.30 Hrs> POB: Madras> > Asc: Pisces> Ketu: Gemini> Jupiter: Cancer> Moon,Sun: Virgo> Sat/Merc/Ven: Libra> Rahu/Mars: Saggitarius> > > Mark Guru in cancer a Female sign in 5th where Guru is in exaltation.> He has malefics in 10th house which denotes no progeny to light > funeral pyre.> This person is childless even after two marriages.

[[sourav]]:

Lagnesh Ju in 5th House shows its difficult to have children or 'sukha' from offshrings. Lagnesh represents the native and in any house can deplete energy from the house. But this is not because its Ju, but because its Lagnesha.

5L Mo is very weak (gandanta) and afflicted by Su in Rasi Chart and by Ra in Navamsa.

There are no drishti's on the 5th House and malefics Ku and Su and its Lord Mo gives virodh argala.

Ju is debilitated in Saptamsa (as well as Sashtiamsa although the Lagna accuracy of the Sashtiamsa is doubtful). I am not sure if the time is correct so I will not look into the details in Saptamsa.

There is a strong Tapaswi Yoga in the Rasi Chart and from Navamsa it is apparent from the 7H and its trines that the person is austere and most likely not interested in progeny.

> > > CASE # II> > Male> > DOB: 6TH July 1935> Tob : 5.34 AM> POB: Teng-t'a> 101 E 12> 36 N 32> > Gemini: Asc> Gemini: Sun/Merc/Ketu> Leo: Moon/venus> Virgo : Mars> Libra : Jupiter> Saggi: Rahu> Aquarius: Saturn> > This person has Guru in 5th house.He is unmarried and has no children > due to religious abstinence.> This horoscope belongs to His Holiness Dalai Lama.

[[sourav]]:

There is a difference in opinions between the exact birth time of His Holiness Dalai Lama. You can check the details from http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/DalaiLama.htm. As per their belief and undersanding, the most likely time is 4:38 PM. (6:45 East of GMT).

In Rasi Chart, retrograde Ju in the 5th with virodhargala from all malefics (except Sa) can deny children. The 5L Ve is in Dusthana which is also the Badhaksthana from the 5H. The badhakesha Su is also in the Lagna which contains A5.

Assuming birth time is approximately correct enough for D-7, there are three debilitated planets Su, Ve and Mo probably one of this will occupy the lagna in D-7.

> > CASE # III> > GURU IN 2ND HOUSE DHANA BHAVA> > MALE > Born ...10th Nov 1955 > > > Janma Lagna Kataka> Vrishabha...........ketu> Simha ..............Guru> Kanya...............Moon, Mars> Tula................Saturn, Mercury, Sun> Vrischik............Rahu , Shukra > > > VIMSHOTTARI DASAS EXPERIENCED SO FAR,> Moon, Mars, Rahu, Guru (Presently).> > This person has Guru in 2nd house in Leo.> > RESULT:> > The jataka , except for a very brief period in Guru dasa, has failed > in everything he has done. Extremely bad with money. Owes people huge > sums, no property , no permenet jobs, avoided by world and also his > own family.poverty does not leave him and presently looked after by > father inlaw.

[[sourav]]:

Some salient points:

La and Ak are in Gandanta.

Almost all planets in the state of dreaming or asleep.

2L is Su debilitated in the Sukhasthana (4th House) and that too with 8L Sa (exalted) and 12L Me.

The birth time is not given so I will not look further. Basically, what has happened to the native (emotionally and financially) can be attributed to the above points and, to my understanding, can't be attributed to Ju. I think Ju is a protective influence in the 2nd House but since its Lord Su is so severely afflicted, Ju cannot do much on its own.

> > > GURU IN 8TH , AYUSHYA BHAVA.> > Guru is termed as Jeeva, Ayushya karaka, remover of illness, when > comes and occupies 8th bhava, destroys the Ayushya or Life of a > person.> I will give two examples of such people who were killed by Guru.> > CASE #1> > Male:> DOB: 27.3.1972> TOB: 9.07 AM> POB: Udaipur Rajasthan> > Taurus: Asc> Taurus: Mars/Sat> Cancer: Ketu> Leo: Moon> Saggi: Jupiter> Capri: Rahu> Pisces: Sun/Merc> > Mark presence of Guru in the 8th bhava. The person died in a tragic > road accident in year 2001. "

[[sourav]]: The death did not occur atleast due to Ju alone. La is afflicted closely (2.5 deg) by maraka and 12L Ma (Ma can cause violent death) and also badhakesha Sa in its Maranakaraka-sthana. Ra is also aspecting this combination from its Maranakaraka-sthana in the 9H. The Lagna lord Ve is in the 12H in exchange with the 12L. This is a really unfortunate combination.

Instead of Vimsottari dasa, because 8L Ma is in the Lagna, I will try Dwisaptati Sama Dasa which, for the death in 2001, gives Sa/Ra spanning the first 8.5 months of 2001. This is as expected.

Ju in Sagittarius in the 8H is a protective influence but sadly was not operative in the dasa time frame.

Where is the 2nd case of Ju in the 8th House ? I may have missed.

For all the examples, to me, there were plenty of reasons other than the thumb rule you mentioned, for which events/situations had happened most likely. Although, this doesn't necessarily disprove the rule you mentioned, it points out two things:

Such borderline/isolated cases (where other similar influences are present) should not be taken into account while proving the rule.

The sources of such sweeping thumbrules, if at all authentic, must be rooted in some classical literature, as Guru Sanjay-ji has mentioned time and again.