Guest guest Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Om gurave Namah Dear Partha, The information I was referring to is contained in Sanjay ji's lecture on Ashtadala Padma (Eight Petal Lotus)available in the " Lectures " section of Srath.com, apart from Prasna marga...hence the confusion. Visti often referred to the ashtadala padma and Garuda is representative Sun in the same. Perhaps my understanding is wrong somewhere. I wish Guruji would correct me. Regards Lakshmi --- Partha Sarathy <partvinu wrote: > Dear Lakshmi Garu > may be there was a typo or some contextual > statement with respect to gaja > and kesari. > As far as i am conerned Gaja is Jupiter as i > remember very well in one of > the lectures of Sanjayji. He said that the pranapada > lagna in trines to > Jupiter gives birth to elephants. There was another > paper of Visti where he > said that Jupiter and ketu together constitute > Gajapati yoga, so Jupiter has > to be that elephant head, Ketu is the headless one. > so you were not wrong earlier. > best wishes > partha > > > On 7/25/05, lakshmi ramesh > <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > Namaste. Thanks for your reply and which > particular > > sloka were you referring to? My reference is based > on > > Vishnu Purana. > > > > I was wondering how moon is associated with > " kesari " , > > and i discovered to my surprise that moon is > infact > > associated with gaja while jupiter is associated > with > > hari/simha, as per ashtadala padma and prasna > marga. I > > must admit that my earlier understanding of gaja > > kesari had gone for a sirshasana! > > > > You must have known that I made a mistake, so why > > didn't you correct me? > > > > But I had always associated Jupiter with elephant > and > > remember how we discussed that Jupiter+Ketu in > your > > 5th house represented Ganesha? > > > > So, who ultimately is Jupiter, Gaja or Kesari? > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > --- " V.Partha sarathy " <partvinu wrote: > > > > > Dear Lakshmi garu > > > > > > There could be another version such as sun > starting > > > the rajyoga, moon > > > sustaining it > > > Sun being the karaka for lagna, moon is karaka > for > > > arudha lagna > > > Sun the real and moon the virtual > > > Sun the impulse provider and moon the receptor. > > > > > > So many variations for the same sloka > > > > > > best wishes > > > partha > > > > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Ramadas Rao ji & Partha, > > > > > > > > I have read from the Puranas that Sun's light > > > resides > > > > in Agni at night fall and moon draws this > energy > > > from > > > > Agni to spread light in the world. Ofcourse, > this > > > is > > > > nothing but the concept of tretaagni and Lord > > > Nrisimha > > > > emerged from this Third eye/saayam > > > sandhya/Agni/Mars > > > > to kill HiranyaKashipu. > > > > > > > > Could the mutual debilitation of Moon and Mars > be > > > > linked to this fact? So, whenever Moon is > strong, > > > Mars > > > > is weak/debilitated because of loss of energy, > > > while > > > > when moon is weak (dark) Mars is strong > because > > > there > > > > is no loss of energy? > > > > > > > > Faulty logic? :--)) > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Ramdas Rao ji, > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the delay in my reply. I was busy > with > > > > > preparations for my father's 1st annual > ceremony > > > and > > > > > could not reply earlier. The ceremonies > started > > > > > today. > > > > > > > > > > As for my being not angry when you visited > > > Tirupati, > > > > > there are two reason...first of all, you are > > > such a > > > > > nice and saattwik person that even a > normally > > > > > violent > > > > > person would become peaceful in your > presence > > > and > > > > > secondly, i really can't breath fire all > over > > > the > > > > > people i have invited over to my house, can > i? > > > > > > > > > > :--)) > > > > > > > > > > But more seriously,( I wanted to write and > ask > > > > > Partha > > > > > too), that moon is also known as kesari and > all > > > the > > > > > " kesaris " I have known are quite tough and > > > > > aggressive, > > > > > including Lord Nrisimha (Mars!). How come a > > > soft > > > > > and > > > > > pliable planet like Moon is associated with > the > > > > > animal > > > > > " kesari " , that is, apart from the obvious > royal > > > > > implications? > > > > > > > > > > Or is it that Moon and Mars are inextricably > > > linked > > > > > and are like two sides of a coin, so when > one > > > aspect > > > > > (planet) is up, the other side is > automatically > > > > > down, > > > > > debilitated, hidden? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Ramadas Rao <ramadasrao> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ` nmae naray[ay, > > > > > > > > > > > > om namo näräyaëäya| > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi Ji, > > > > > > Hahahaha !!!! > > > > > > Guru Poornima Greetings to you. > > > > > > But when I vistied your house this time, I > did > > > not > > > > > > see your angr mood !!! > > > > > > With Shri Hari Vaayu Naama Smarana, > > > > > > Ramadas Rao. > > > > > > > > > > > > lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > wrote: > > > > > > Om gurave Namah > > > > > > > === message truncated === __ Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 || Gurave Namah || Namaste Lakshmi, I understand what you are saying about the Ashtadala padma. My understanding is that Ashtadala Padma or Kaalachakra is about harmony. The Animal which is denoted in opposite spoke indicates the animal which is in Harmony with planet in opposite spoke. The Planet/Diety indicated rides the animal opposite to spoke. How can a graha/dieity ride the animal if the animal is not friendly to the graha?. Jupiter is Friendly to Elephant hence sits opposite spoke to Jupiter where Moon is. Similars if mars can be taken as where Ganesha sits then opposite to it is Mouse who is friendly to Ganesha. Even though Mouse has same Saturnian character. Like carrier of desease etc. Once Ganesha rides it there is harmony. If you take Sun to be Shiva opposite is Bull, Nandi is after all one great bhakta of Shiva. Actually the Animal denoted in Ashtadala padma spoke just indicate a family/class of animals. These are my understanding. Warm Regards Sanjay P Hare Rama Krishna jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > Om gurave Namah > > Dear Partha, > > The information I was referring to is contained in > Sanjay ji's lecture on Ashtadala Padma (Eight Petal > Lotus)available in the " Lectures " section of > Srath.com, apart from Prasna marga...hence the > confusion. Visti often referred to the ashtadala padma > and Garuda is representative Sun in the same. > > Perhaps my understanding is wrong somewhere. I wish > Guruji would correct me. > > Regards > Lakshmi > > > --- Partha Sarathy <partvinu@g...> wrote: > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu > > may be there was a typo or some contextual > > statement with respect to gaja > > and kesari. > > As far as i am conerned Gaja is Jupiter as i > > remember very well in one of > > the lectures of Sanjayji. He said that the pranapada > > lagna in trines to > > Jupiter gives birth to elephants. There was another > > paper of Visti where he > > said that Jupiter and ketu together constitute > > Gajapati yoga, so Jupiter has > > to be that elephant head, Ketu is the headless one. > > so you were not wrong earlier. > > best wishes > > partha > > > > > > On 7/25/05, lakshmi ramesh > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > Namaste. Thanks for your reply and which > > particular > > > sloka were you referring to? My reference is based > > on > > > Vishnu Purana. > > > > > > I was wondering how moon is associated with > > " kesari " , > > > and i discovered to my surprise that moon is > > infact > > > associated with gaja while jupiter is associated > > with > > > hari/simha, as per ashtadala padma and prasna > > marga. I > > > must admit that my earlier understanding of gaja > > > kesari had gone for a sirshasana! > > > > > > You must have known that I made a mistake, so why > > > didn't you correct me? > > > > > > But I had always associated Jupiter with elephant > > and > > > remember how we discussed that Jupiter+Ketu in > > your > > > 5th house represented Ganesha? > > > > > > So, who ultimately is Jupiter, Gaja or Kesari? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > --- " V.Partha sarathy " <partvinu@g...> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi garu > > > > > > > > There could be another version such as sun > > starting > > > > the rajyoga, moon > > > > sustaining it > > > > Sun being the karaka for lagna, moon is karaka > > for > > > > arudha lagna > > > > Sun the real and moon the virtual > > > > Sun the impulse provider and moon the receptor. > > > > > > > > So many variations for the same sloka > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Ramadas Rao ji & Partha, > > > > > > > > > > I have read from the Puranas that Sun's light > > > > resides > > > > > in Agni at night fall and moon draws this > > energy > > > > from > > > > > Agni to spread light in the world. Ofcourse, > > this > > > > is > > > > > nothing but the concept of tretaagni and Lord > > > > Nrisimha > > > > > emerged from this Third eye/saayam > > > > sandhya/Agni/Mars > > > > > to kill HiranyaKashipu. > > > > > > > > > > Could the mutual debilitation of Moon and Mars > > be > > > > > linked to this fact? So, whenever Moon is > > strong, > > > > Mars > > > > > is weak/debilitated because of loss of energy, > > > > while > > > > > when moon is weak (dark) Mars is strong > > because > > > > there > > > > > is no loss of energy? > > > > > > > > > > Faulty logic? :--)) > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Ramdas Rao ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the delay in my reply. I was busy > > with > > > > > > preparations for my father's 1st annual > > ceremony > > > > and > > > > > > could not reply earlier. The ceremonies > > started > > > > > > today. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for my being not angry when you visited > > > > Tirupati, > > > > > > there are two reason...first of all, you are > > > > such a > > > > > > nice and saattwik person that even a > > normally > > > > > > violent > > > > > > person would become peaceful in your > > presence > > > > and > > > > > > secondly, i really can't breath fire all > > over > > > > the > > > > > > people i have invited over to my house, can > > i? > > > > > > > > > > > > :--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > But more seriously,( I wanted to write and > > ask > > > > > > Partha > > > > > > too), that moon is also known as kesari and > > all > > > > the > > > > > > " kesaris " I have known are quite tough and > > > > > > aggressive, > > > > > > including Lord Nrisimha (Mars!). How come a > > > > soft > > > > > > and > > > > > > pliable planet like Moon is associated with > > the > > > > > > animal > > > > > > " kesari " , that is, apart from the obvious > > royal > > > > > > implications? > > > > > > > > > > > > Or is it that Moon and Mars are inextricably > > > > linked > > > > > > and are like two sides of a coin, so when > > one > > > > aspect > > > > > > (planet) is up, the other side is > > automatically > > > > > > down, > > > > > > debilitated, hidden? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Ramadas Rao <ramadasrao> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ` nmae naray[ay, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > om namo näräyaëäya| > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi Ji, > > > > > > > Hahahaha !!!! > > > > > > > Guru Poornima Greetings to you. > > > > > > > But when I vistied your house this time, I > > did > > > > not > > > > > > > see your angr mood !!! > > > > > > > With Shri Hari Vaayu Naama Smarana, > > > > > > > Ramadas Rao. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Om gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > __ > Start your day with - make it your home page > http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Sanjay P., That's a wonderful explanation about kala chakra and gives me a new perspective about the whole thing, because i had earlier thought that the animal pairs on the opposite ends of the spoke denoted natural enemies...Garuda (dhwaja yoni)- serpent (vrishabha yoni),Cat-mouse, lion-elephant,dog-hare. While I agree that jupiter must be friendly with gaja the animal, perhaps they may not represent the same yoni. In Prasna marga Chapter on " Ashta Mangalam " (looks almost similar to ashta dala padma...or are they different?) they allot Jupiter to Simha yoni (prithvi)and moon to gaja yoni. as Gaja (airavata) and moon both originated from milky ocean (jala tattwa), i thought that they do fit well together... Regards, Lakshmi --- sanjayprabhakaran <sanjaychettiar wrote: > || Gurave Namah || > Namaste Lakshmi, > > I understand what you are saying about the > Ashtadala padma. > > My understanding is that Ashtadala Padma or > Kaalachakra is about > harmony. The Animal which is denoted in opposite > spoke indicates the > animal which is in Harmony with planet in opposite > spoke. > > The Planet/Diety indicated rides the animal > opposite to spoke. How > can a graha/dieity ride the animal if the animal is > not friendly to > the graha?. Jupiter is Friendly to Elephant hence > sits opposite spoke > to Jupiter where Moon is. > > Similars if mars can be taken as where Ganesha sits > then opposite to > it is Mouse who is friendly to Ganesha. Even though > Mouse has same > Saturnian character. Like carrier of desease etc. > Once Ganesha rides > it there is harmony. > > If you take Sun to be Shiva opposite is Bull, Nandi > is after all one > great bhakta of Shiva. > > Actually the Animal denoted in Ashtadala padma > spoke just indicate a > family/class of animals. > > These are my understanding. > > Warm Regards > Sanjay P > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > wrote: > > Om gurave Namah > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > The information I was referring to is contained in > > Sanjay ji's lecture on Ashtadala Padma (Eight > Petal > > Lotus)available in the " Lectures " section of > > Srath.com, apart from Prasna marga...hence the > > confusion. Visti often referred to the ashtadala > padma > > and Garuda is representative Sun in the same. > > > > Perhaps my understanding is wrong somewhere. I > wish > > Guruji would correct me. > > > > Regards > > Lakshmi > > > > > > --- Partha Sarathy <partvinu@g...> wrote: > > > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu > > > may be there was a typo or some contextual > > > statement with respect to gaja > > > and kesari. > > > As far as i am conerned Gaja is Jupiter as i > > > remember very well in one of > > > the lectures of Sanjayji. He said that the > pranapada > > > lagna in trines to > > > Jupiter gives birth to elephants. There was > another > > > paper of Visti where he > > > said that Jupiter and ketu together constitute > > > Gajapati yoga, so Jupiter has > > > to be that elephant head, Ketu is the headless > one. > > > so you were not wrong earlier. > > > best wishes > > > partha > > > > > > > > > On 7/25/05, lakshmi ramesh > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > Namaste. Thanks for your reply and which > > > particular > > > > sloka were you referring to? My reference is > based > > > on > > > > Vishnu Purana. > > > > > > > > I was wondering how moon is associated with > > > " kesari " , > > > > and i discovered to my surprise that moon is > > > infact > > > > associated with gaja while jupiter is > associated > > > with > > > > hari/simha, as per ashtadala padma and prasna > > > marga. I > > > > must admit that my earlier understanding of > gaja > > > > kesari had gone for a sirshasana! > > > > > > > > You must have known that I made a mistake, so > why > > > > didn't you correct me? > > > > > > > > But I had always associated Jupiter with > elephant > > > and > > > > remember how we discussed that Jupiter+Ketu in > > > your > > > > 5th house represented Ganesha? > > > > > > > > So, who ultimately is Jupiter, Gaja or Kesari? > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > --- " V.Partha sarathy " <partvinu@g...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi garu > > > > > > > > > > There could be another version such as sun > > > starting > > > > > the rajyoga, moon > > > > > sustaining it > > > > > Sun being the karaka for lagna, moon is > karaka > > > for > > > > > arudha lagna > > > > > Sun the real and moon the virtual > > > > > Sun the impulse provider and moon the > receptor. > > > > > > > > > > So many variations for the same sloka > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi > ramesh > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Ramadas Rao ji & Partha, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have read from the Puranas that Sun's > light > > > > > resides > > > > > > in Agni at night fall and moon draws this > > > energy > > > > > from > > > > > > Agni to spread light in the world. > Ofcourse, > > > this > > > > > is > > > > > > nothing but the concept of tretaagni and > Lord > > > > > Nrisimha > > > > > > emerged from this Third eye/saayam > > > > > sandhya/Agni/Mars > > > > > > to kill HiranyaKashipu. > > > > > > > > > > > > Could the mutual debilitation of Moon and > Mars > > > be > > > > > > linked to this fact? So, whenever Moon is > > > strong, > > > > > Mars > > > > > > is weak/debilitated because of loss of > energy, > > > > > while > > > > > > when moon is weak (dark) Mars is strong > > > because > > > > > there > > > > > > is no loss of energy? > > > > > > > > > > > > Faulty logic? :--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear SanjayP, Thought you might enjoy this: Kubera and Nara Vähana, Gaja and Kesaré in the Käla Chakra In the Käla Chakra, Jupiter and Moon are posited opposite each other, in the southern and northern directions. The lord of the northern direction, where the Moon is placed, is Kubera, the god of wealth. The yoni is Nara (Man); the animal associated is Gaja (Elephant) and the deity for the direction is Durga (Umä is the pratyädhé devatä of Moon). The uniqueness of Kubera is that his vähana is Nara, or man. This symbolizes the fact that man is enslaved by his indriyas (sensory organs) and is subject to greed for the material world, with Kubera depicting the epitome of materiality. Man is eternally in pursuit of wealth driven by his desires (Moon). The Moon represents not only the narayoni but the mind, which is forever susceptible to surrender to the dark side. The only one who can rescue man, and by corollary the mind, from this material bondage is Jupiter. Jupiter is in the southern direction in the Käla Chakra, whose lord is Yama. The animal associated with this direction is Kesaré (Lion), represented by the Hariyoni and the deity is Indra, the pratyädhé devatä of Jupiter. The two animals associated in the concerned directions, the elephant and the lion, are the vähanas of the deities in the opposite direction. The elephant is the vähana of Indra and the lion is the vähana of Durga, signifying that each can ‘ride’ the other or control the other, when the negativities of the direction become prominent. Figure 6: The Moon & Jupiter in the Käla Chakra Moon Jupiter Direction North South Lord Kubera Yama Yoni Nara Hari Animal Gaja (Elephant) Kesaré (Lion) Deity Durga Indra Tithis Dvétiyä, Daçamé Paìcamé, Trayodaçé Jupiter represents divinity in any horoscope and Hari as the lion can control the minds of a million men in a fell sweep, thereby curbing and dictating the flow of wealth (and hence greed/desires) that accrue in the hands of men. It is Hari who can lift a man from the mire of materiality and reinstate him on the spiritual path. The lion can demolish a thousand elephants as stated in the Jätaka Deça Märga and therefore destroy enemies. In this case the enemies are both within and without; the enemies within being the desires and distortions of the mind, as depicted by the elephant. Indra is the king (devaräja), the victorious one, the one who sits in the throne of the horoscope in the 10th house, and therefore has the power to conquer the enemy. The lion too is a king (paçuräja) and a symbol of conquest and royalty. This describes the effect of Jupiter from the Chandra kendra; when favorable, it can make a man the undisputed king of the world, untrammelled and a ruler of men, like Çré Rämachandra, or having conquered the senses, it can produce a perfect renunciate and a supremely spiritual person, like Çré Achyuta Dasa (see chart below). In both cases, it is the triumph of the lion over the elephant, of the divine over the base, of Hari over man. In its ultimate form, it is a supreme condition of a very powerful Jupiter having perfect control over the dhé and the mana, and as such over the life of the native. (Conversely, if one considers the Moon from Jupiter, then the southern direction is that of Yama, the god of the departed souls. The one who protects man from venturing towards the abode of Yama, is the deity of the northern direction, Durgä or Durgatinäçiné, She who removes the evils of the way. Best regards, Sarbani jyotisa [jyotisa ] On Behalf Of sanjayprabhakaranTuesday, July 26, 2005 8:59 PMjyotisa Subject: Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? || Gurave Namah ||Namaste Lakshmi,I understand what you are saying about the Ashtadala padma.My understanding is that Ashtadala Padma or Kaalachakra is aboutharmony. The Animal which is denoted in opposite spoke indicates theanimal which is in Harmony with planet in opposite spoke.The Planet/Diety indicated rides the animal opposite to spoke. Howcan a graha/dieity ride the animal if the animal is not friendly tothe graha?. Jupiter is Friendly to Elephant hence sits opposite spoketo Jupiter where Moon is.Similars if mars can be taken as where Ganesha sits then opposite toit is Mouse who is friendly to Ganesha. Even though Mouse has sameSaturnian character. Like carrier of desease etc. Once Ganesha ridesit there is harmony.If you take Sun to be Shiva opposite is Bull, Nandi is after all onegreat bhakta of Shiva.Actually the Animal denoted in Ashtadala padma spoke just indicate afamily/class of animals.These are my understanding. Warm RegardsSanjay PHare Rama Krishna> > > === message truncated ===> > > > > __> Start your day with - make it your home page > http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 || Gurave Namah || Namaste Lakshmi, Yes the Ashtamangala(8 Auspicious) uses Ashtadala padma(Octal/8 lotus petals). They are same to understand Kaalachakra(Cycle of Time). I think the principle behind is that the quality Time(Kaala) can be determined by observing quality of related 8 auspicious objects. Which is also the principle behind Shakuna and nimmitta. Warm Regards Sanjay P Hare Rama Krishna jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Sanjay P., > > That's a wonderful explanation about kala chakra and > gives me a new perspective about the whole thing, > because i had earlier thought that the animal pairs on > the opposite ends of the spoke denoted natural > enemies...Garuda (dhwaja yoni)- serpent (vrishabha > yoni),Cat-mouse, lion-elephant,dog-hare. > > While I agree that jupiter must be friendly with gaja > the animal, perhaps they may not represent the same > yoni. In Prasna marga Chapter on " Ashta Mangalam " > (looks almost similar to ashta dala padma...or are > they different?) they allot Jupiter to Simha yoni > (prithvi)and moon to gaja yoni. as Gaja (airavata) and > moon both originated from milky ocean (jala tattwa), i > thought that they do fit well together... > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > --- sanjayprabhakaran <sanjaychettiar@g...> > wrote: > > > || Gurave Namah || > > Namaste Lakshmi, > > > > I understand what you are saying about the > > Ashtadala padma. > > > > My understanding is that Ashtadala Padma or > > Kaalachakra is about > > harmony. The Animal which is denoted in opposite > > spoke indicates the > > animal which is in Harmony with planet in opposite > > spoke. > > > > The Planet/Diety indicated rides the animal > > opposite to spoke. How > > can a graha/dieity ride the animal if the animal is > > not friendly to > > the graha?. Jupiter is Friendly to Elephant hence > > sits opposite spoke > > to Jupiter where Moon is. > > > > Similars if mars can be taken as where Ganesha sits > > then opposite to > > it is Mouse who is friendly to Ganesha. Even though > > Mouse has same > > Saturnian character. Like carrier of desease etc. > > Once Ganesha rides > > it there is harmony. > > > > If you take Sun to be Shiva opposite is Bull, Nandi > > is after all one > > great bhakta of Shiva. > > > > Actually the Animal denoted in Ashtadala padma > > spoke just indicate a > > family/class of animals. > > > > These are my understanding. > > > > Warm Regards > > Sanjay P > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > > wrote: > > > Om gurave Namah > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > The information I was referring to is contained in > > > Sanjay ji's lecture on Ashtadala Padma (Eight > > Petal > > > Lotus)available in the " Lectures " section of > > > Srath.com, apart from Prasna marga...hence the > > > confusion. Visti often referred to the ashtadala > > padma > > > and Garuda is representative Sun in the same. > > > > > > Perhaps my understanding is wrong somewhere. I > > wish > > > Guruji would correct me. > > > > > > Regards > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > --- Partha Sarathy <partvinu@g...> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu > > > > may be there was a typo or some contextual > > > > statement with respect to gaja > > > > and kesari. > > > > As far as i am conerned Gaja is Jupiter as i > > > > remember very well in one of > > > > the lectures of Sanjayji. He said that the > > pranapada > > > > lagna in trines to > > > > Jupiter gives birth to elephants. There was > > another > > > > paper of Visti where he > > > > said that Jupiter and ketu together constitute > > > > Gajapati yoga, so Jupiter has > > > > to be that elephant head, Ketu is the headless > > one. > > > > so you were not wrong earlier. > > > > best wishes > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/25/05, lakshmi ramesh > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > > > Namaste. Thanks for your reply and which > > > > particular > > > > > sloka were you referring to? My reference is > > based > > > > on > > > > > Vishnu Purana. > > > > > > > > > > I was wondering how moon is associated with > > > > " kesari " , > > > > > and i discovered to my surprise that moon is > > > > infact > > > > > associated with gaja while jupiter is > > associated > > > > with > > > > > hari/simha, as per ashtadala padma and prasna > > > > marga. I > > > > > must admit that my earlier understanding of > > gaja > > > > > kesari had gone for a sirshasana! > > > > > > > > > > You must have known that I made a mistake, so > > why > > > > > didn't you correct me? > > > > > > > > > > But I had always associated Jupiter with > > elephant > > > > and > > > > > remember how we discussed that Jupiter+Ketu in > > > > your > > > > > 5th house represented Ganesha? > > > > > > > > > > So, who ultimately is Jupiter, Gaja or Kesari? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > --- " V.Partha sarathy " <partvinu@g...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi garu > > > > > > > > > > > > There could be another version such as sun > > > > starting > > > > > > the rajyoga, moon > > > > > > sustaining it > > > > > > Sun being the karaka for lagna, moon is > > karaka > > > > for > > > > > > arudha lagna > > > > > > Sun the real and moon the virtual > > > > > > Sun the impulse provider and moon the > > receptor. > > > > > > > > > > > > So many variations for the same sloka > > > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi > > ramesh > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Ramadas Rao ji & Partha, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have read from the Puranas that Sun's > > light > > > > > > resides > > > > > > > in Agni at night fall and moon draws this > > > > energy > > > > > > from > > > > > > > Agni to spread light in the world. > > Ofcourse, > > > > this > > > > > > is > > > > > > > nothing but the concept of tretaagni and > > Lord > > > > > > Nrisimha > > > > > > > emerged from this Third eye/saayam > > > > > > sandhya/Agni/Mars > > > > > > > to kill HiranyaKashipu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could the mutual debilitation of Moon and > > Mars > > > > be > > > > > > > linked to this fact? So, whenever Moon is > > > > strong, > > > > > > Mars > > > > > > > is weak/debilitated because of loss of > > energy, > > > > > > while > > > > > > > when moon is weak (dark) Mars is strong > > > > because > > > > > > there > > > > > > > is no loss of energy? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Faulty logic? :--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Dear Sarbani, I don't know if Sanjay P. enjoyed your post or not, but I certainly did:--)) Thanks for the lovely explanation. I was drifting along somewhat to your point of view after Sanjay P.'s mail, but your reply had really hastened up the process and firmed up the fact that Jupiter is indeed the lion while Moon is the elephant. Elephant represents " mada " associated with self/image which wisdom alone can control (hence the ankusa, which is used to control elephants, in Mother's hand symbolises gynaana), while lion symbolizing " shakti " /ferocious power can be controlled by compassion alone... Thanks again. Regards, Lakshmi --- Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: > Shri Brahmadaru Smarami > > Dear SanjayP, > > Thought you might enjoy this: > > Kubera and Nara Vähana, Gaja and Kesaré in the Käla > Chakra > > In the Käla Chakra, Jupiter and Moon are posited > opposite each other, in the > southern and northern directions. The lord of the > northern direction, where > the Moon is placed, is Kubera, the god of wealth. > The yoni is Nara (Man); > the animal associated is Gaja (Elephant) and the > deity for the direction is > Durga (Umä is the pratyädhé devatä of Moon). The > uniqueness of Kubera is > that his vähana is Nara, or man. This symbolizes the > fact that man is > enslaved by his indriyas (sensory organs) and is > subject to greed for the > material world, with Kubera depicting the epitome of > materiality. Man is > eternally in pursuit of wealth driven by his desires > (Moon). The Moon > represents not only the narayoni but the mind, which > is forever susceptible > to surrender to the dark side. The only one who can > rescue man, and by > corollary the mind, from this material bondage is > Jupiter. Jupiter is in the > southern direction in the Käla Chakra, whose lord is > Yama. The animal > associated with this direction is Kesaré (Lion), > represented by the Hariyoni > and the deity is Indra, the pratyädhé devatä of > Jupiter. The two animals > associated in the concerned directions, the elephant > and the lion, are the > vähanas of the deities in the opposite direction. > The elephant is the vähana > of Indra and the lion is the vähana of Durga, > signifying that each can > ‘ride’ the other or control the other, when the > negativities of the > direction become prominent. > > Figure 6: The Moon & Jupiter in the Käla Chakra > > > > > Moon > > Jupiter > > > Direction > > North > > South > > > Lord > > Kubera > > Yama > > > Yoni > > Nara > > Hari > > > Animal > > Gaja (Elephant) > > Kesaré (Lion) > > > Deity > > Durga > > Indra > > > Tithis > > Dvétiyä, Daçamé > > Paìcamé, Trayodaçé > > Jupiter represents divinity in any horoscope and > Hari as the lion can > control the minds of a million men in a fell sweep, > thereby curbing and > dictating the flow of wealth (and hence > greed/desires) that accrue in the > hands of men. It is Hari who can lift a man from the > mire of materiality and > reinstate him on the spiritual path. The lion can > demolish a thousand > elephants as stated in the Jätaka Deça Märga and > therefore destroy enemies. > In this case the enemies are both within and > without; the enemies within > being the desires and distortions of the mind, as > depicted by the elephant. > Indra is the king (devaräja), the victorious one, > the one who sits in the > throne of the horoscope in the 10th house, and > therefore has the power to > conquer the enemy. The lion too is a king (paçuräja) > and a symbol of > conquest and royalty. This describes the effect of > Jupiter from the Chandra > kendra; when favorable, it can make a man the > undisputed king of the world, > untrammelled and a ruler of men, like Çré > Rämachandra, or having conquered > the senses, it can produce a perfect renunciate and > a supremely spiritual > person, like Çré Achyuta Dasa (see chart below). In > both cases, it is the > triumph of the lion over the elephant, of the divine > over the base, of Hari > over man. In its ultimate form, it is a supreme > condition of a very powerful > Jupiter having perfect control over the dhé and the > mana, and as such over > the life of the native. > > (Conversely, if one considers the Moon from Jupiter, > then the southern > direction is that of Yama, the god of the departed > souls. The one who > protects man from venturing towards the abode of > Yama, is the deity of the > northern direction, Durgä or Durgatinäçiné, She who > removes the evils of the > way. > > Best regards, > > Sarbani > > > _____ > > jyotisa > [jyotisa ] On Behalf Of > sanjayprabhakaran > Tuesday, July 26, 2005 8:59 PM > jyotisa > Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? > > > || Gurave Namah || > Namaste Lakshmi, > > I understand what you are saying about the Ashtadala > padma. > > My understanding is that Ashtadala Padma or > Kaalachakra is about > harmony. The Animal which is denoted in opposite > spoke indicates the > animal which is in Harmony with planet in opposite > spoke. > > The Planet/Diety indicated rides the animal opposite > to spoke. How > can a graha/dieity ride the animal if the animal is > not friendly to > the graha?. Jupiter is Friendly to Elephant hence > sits opposite spoke > to Jupiter where Moon is. > > Similars if mars can be taken as where Ganesha sits > then opposite to > it is Mouse who is friendly to Ganesha. Even though > Mouse has same > Saturnian character. Like carrier of desease etc. > Once Ganesha rides > it there is harmony. > > If you take Sun to be Shiva opposite is Bull, Nandi > is after all one > great bhakta of Shiva. > > Actually the Animal denoted in Ashtadala padma spoke > just indicate a > family/class of animals. > === message truncated === __ Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Sanjay, Thanks for patiently fielding my questions and clearing my doubts. Let me ruminate over your answer and perhaps before long, I will be back with another bunch of troublesome queries:--)) Regards, Lakshmi --- sanjayprabhakaran <sanjaychettiar wrote: > || Gurave Namah || > Namaste Lakshmi, > Yes the Ashtamangala(8 Auspicious) uses Ashtadala > padma(Octal/8 lotus > petals). They are same to understand > Kaalachakra(Cycle of Time). > > I think the principle behind is that the quality > Time(Kaala) can be > determined by observing quality of related 8 > auspicious objects. Which > is also the principle behind Shakuna and nimmitta. > > Warm Regards > Sanjay P > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Sanjay P., > > > > That's a wonderful explanation about kala chakra > and > > gives me a new perspective about the whole thing, > > because i had earlier thought that the animal > pairs on > > the opposite ends of the spoke denoted natural > > enemies...Garuda (dhwaja yoni)- serpent (vrishabha > > yoni),Cat-mouse, lion-elephant,dog-hare. > > > > While I agree that jupiter must be friendly with > gaja > > the animal, perhaps they may not represent the > same > > yoni. In Prasna marga Chapter on " Ashta Mangalam " > > (looks almost similar to ashta dala padma...or are > > they different?) they allot Jupiter to Simha yoni > > (prithvi)and moon to gaja yoni. as Gaja (airavata) > and > > moon both originated from milky ocean (jala > tattwa), i > > thought that they do fit well together... > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > --- sanjayprabhakaran <sanjaychettiar@g...> > > wrote: > > > > > || Gurave Namah || > > > Namaste Lakshmi, > > > > > > I understand what you are saying about the > > > Ashtadala padma. > > > > > > My understanding is that Ashtadala Padma or > > > Kaalachakra is about > > > harmony. The Animal which is denoted in opposite > > > spoke indicates the > > > animal which is in Harmony with planet in > opposite > > > spoke. > > > > > > The Planet/Diety indicated rides the animal > > > opposite to spoke. How > > > can a graha/dieity ride the animal if the animal > is > > > not friendly to > > > the graha?. Jupiter is Friendly to Elephant > hence > > > sits opposite spoke > > > to Jupiter where Moon is. > > > > > > Similars if mars can be taken as where Ganesha > sits > > > then opposite to > > > it is Mouse who is friendly to Ganesha. Even > though > > > Mouse has same > > > Saturnian character. Like carrier of desease > etc. > > > Once Ganesha rides > > > it there is harmony. > > > > > > If you take Sun to be Shiva opposite is Bull, > Nandi > > > is after all one > > > great bhakta of Shiva. > > > > > > Actually the Animal denoted in Ashtadala padma > > > spoke just indicate a > > > family/class of animals. > > > > > > These are my understanding. > > > > > > Warm Regards > > > Sanjay P > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > > > wrote: > > > > Om gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > The information I was referring to is > contained in > > > > Sanjay ji's lecture on Ashtadala Padma (Eight > > > Petal > > > > Lotus)available in the " Lectures " section of > > > > Srath.com, apart from Prasna marga...hence the > > > > confusion. Visti often referred to the > ashtadala > > > padma > > > > and Garuda is representative Sun in the same. > > > > > > > > Perhaps my understanding is wrong somewhere. I > > > wish > > > > Guruji would correct me. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Partha Sarathy <partvinu@g...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu > > > > > may be there was a typo or some contextual > > > > > statement with respect to gaja > > > > > and kesari. > > > > > As far as i am conerned Gaja is Jupiter as i > > > > > remember very well in one of > > > > > the lectures of Sanjayji. He said that the > > > pranapada > > > > > lagna in trines to > > > > > Jupiter gives birth to elephants. There was > > > another > > > > > paper of Visti where he > > > > > said that Jupiter and ketu together > constitute > > > > > Gajapati yoga, so Jupiter has > > > > > to be that elephant head, Ketu is the > headless > > > one. > > > > > so you were not wrong earlier. > > > > > best wishes > > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/25/05, lakshmi ramesh > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste. Thanks for your reply and which > > > > > particular > > > > > > sloka were you referring to? My reference > is > > > based > > > > > on > > > > > > Vishnu Purana. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was wondering how moon is associated > with > > > > > " kesari " , > > > > > > and i discovered to my surprise that moon > is > > > > > infact > > > > > > associated with gaja while jupiter is > > > associated > > > > > with > > > > > > hari/simha, as per ashtadala padma and > prasna > > > > > marga. I > > > > > > must admit that my earlier understanding > of > > > gaja > > > > > > kesari had gone for a sirshasana! > > > > > > > > > > > > You must have known that I made a mistake, > so > > > why > > > > > > didn't you correct me? > > > > > > > > > > > > But I had always associated Jupiter with > > > elephant > > > > > and > > > > > > remember how we discussed that > Jupiter+Ketu in > === message truncated === __ Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Dear Sarajit, Namaste. I agree that the vahanas and the deities seem to be on the opposing ends of the spokes and there is perfect rapport in the North-South direction. As Sanjay p. mentioned, if sun represents Shiva, then in the western direction vrishabha could be correct, if we are only considering the yonis and not the animals, because the animal symbolic of west is serpent. In such a case, Saturn is more likely to ride the crow than Mercury. If we consider their deities to be Narayana/Vishnu, then the vahana should be Garuda. I also think Maha Lakshmi's vahana is supposed to be an owl, unless She's going for a joy ride on the family vehicle with Vishnu:--)) Sarajit, I think it is already obvious to you that I know very little about kala chakra. I have a feeling that there is a fine logic to the chakra which unfortunately seems to elude me. So, I request you to clear my doubts. And, if i am sounding denser than usual, you can put it down to the damp weather:--)) Regards, Lakshmi --- Sarajit Poddar <sarajitp wrote: > || Jaya Jagannath || > Dear Lakshmi, > > I am not sure, if this is covered.... > > The assignment is based on the Vahanas of the deity. > The deity and the > vahanas are on the opposite side of the spoke in the > Astadala Padama. > > Jupiter represents Indra and his Vahana is Airavata > or the white > elephant. Similarly Moon represnt shakti and her > Vahana is Simha or > Lion. > > Best Wishes > Sarajit > > On 7/25/05, lakshmi ramesh > <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > Namaste. Thanks for your reply and which > particular > > sloka were you referring to? My reference is based > on > > Vishnu Purana. > > > > I was wondering how moon is associated with > " kesari " , > > and i discovered to my surprise that moon is > infact > > associated with gaja while jupiter is associated > with > > hari/simha, as per ashtadala padma and prasna > marga. I > > must admit that my earlier understanding of gaja > > kesari had gone for a sirshasana! > > > > You must have known that I made a mistake, so why > > didn't you correct me? > > > > But I had always associated Jupiter with elephant > and > > remember how we discussed that Jupiter+Ketu in > your > > 5th house represented Ganesha? > > > > So, who ultimately is Jupiter, Gaja or Kesari? > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > --- " V.Partha sarathy " <partvinu wrote: > > > > > Dear Lakshmi garu > > > > > > There could be another version such as sun > starting > > > the rajyoga, moon > > > sustaining it > > > Sun being the karaka for lagna, moon is karaka > for > > > arudha lagna > > > Sun the real and moon the virtual > > > Sun the impulse provider and moon the receptor. > > > > > > So many variations for the same sloka > > > > > > best wishes > > > partha > > > > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Ramadas Rao ji & Partha, > > > > > > > > I have read from the Puranas that Sun's light > > > resides > > > > in Agni at night fall and moon draws this > energy > > > from > > > > Agni to spread light in the world. Ofcourse, > this > > > is > > > > nothing but the concept of tretaagni and Lord > > > Nrisimha > > > > emerged from this Third eye/saayam > > > sandhya/Agni/Mars > > > > to kill HiranyaKashipu. > > > > > > > > Could the mutual debilitation of Moon and Mars > be > > > > linked to this fact? So, whenever Moon is > strong, > > > Mars > > > > is weak/debilitated because of loss of energy, > > > while > > > > when moon is weak (dark) Mars is strong > because > > > there > > > > is no loss of energy? > > > > > > > > Faulty logic? :--)) > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Ramdas Rao ji, > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the delay in my reply. I was busy > with > > > > > preparations for my father's 1st annual > ceremony > > > and > > > > > could not reply earlier. The ceremonies > started > > > > > today. > > > > > > > > > > As for my being not angry when you visited > > > Tirupati, > > > > > there are two reason...first of all, you are > > > such a > > > > > nice and saattwik person that even a > normally > > > > > violent > > > > > person would become peaceful in your > presence > > > and > > > > > secondly, i really can't breath fire all > over > > > the > > > > > people i have invited over to my house, can > i? > > > > > > > > > > :--)) > > > > > > > > > > But more seriously,( I wanted to write and > ask > > > > > Partha > > > > > too), that moon is also known as kesari and > all > > > the > > > > > " kesaris " I have known are quite tough and > > > > > aggressive, > > > > > including Lord Nrisimha (Mars!). How come > a > > > soft > > > > > and > > > > > pliable planet like Moon is associated with > the > > > > > animal > > > > > " kesari " , that is, apart from the obvious > royal > > > > > implications? > > > > > > > > > > Or is it that Moon and Mars are inextricably > > > linked > > > > > and are like two sides of a coin, so when > one > > > aspect > > > > > (planet) is up, the other side is > automatically > > > > > down, > > > > > debilitated, hidden? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Ramadas Rao <ramadasrao> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ` nmae naray[ay, > > > > > > > > > > > > om namo näräyaëäya| > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi Ji, > > > > > > Hahahaha !!!! > > > > > > Guru Poornima Greetings to you. > > > > > > But when I vistied your house this time, I > did > > > not > > > > > > see your angr mood !!! > > > > > > With Shri Hari Vaayu Naama Smarana, > > > > > > Ramadas Rao. > > > > > > > > > > > > lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > wrote: > > > > > > Om gurave Namah > === message truncated === __ Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 || Gurave Namah || Namaste Lakshmi, Just to add something to collect our thoughts, > If we consider their deities to be > Narayana/Vishnu, then the vahana should be Garuda. I > also think Maha Lakshmi's vahana is supposed to be an > owl, unless She's going for a joy ride on the family > vehicle with Vishnu:--)) Sanjay P: Considering Female diety to be at the place of Venus the Yoni opposite is Dhwaja, Dhwaja means flag or emblem or a that which is carried in hand too?. Now the animal opposite is Garuda (Or one in bird Family). Female dieties like Andaal, Meenakshiamman, Even form of Saraswati (Parrot) hold birds in Hand (Dwaja); Saraswati is also shown as riding a swan too. Just few points from my side. Warm Regards Sanjay P Hare Rama Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 |om namo bhagavate vasudevaya| Dear Sanjay It is the principle of the wheel with eight spokes and one axle - the axle is Ketu! The wheel of time called kalachakra rolls all the time and with it does the destiny of billions of creatures in this vast universe. In 24 hours it rolls twice and this two fold rolling is the principle of hora shastra (duality - day and night). The total number of kala's is 16 in 24 hours which is the time equivalent of sodasamsa of the day and controls all that brings happniess and sorrow to the mind. It is this happiness and sorrow that guides all creatues in their activities - except those few self realised souls who are beyond happiness and sorrow. With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * jyotisa [jyotisa ] On Behalf Of sanjayprabhakaranTuesday, July 26, 2005 5:53 PMjyotisa Subject: Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? || Gurave Namah ||Namaste Lakshmi,Yes the Ashtamangala(8 Auspicious) uses Ashtadala padma(Octal/8 lotuspetals). They are same to understand Kaalachakra(Cycle of Time).I think the principle behind is that the quality Time(Kaala) can bedetermined by observing quality of related 8 auspicious objects. Whichis also the principle behind Shakuna and nimmitta.Warm RegardsSanjay PHare Rama Krishnajyotisa , lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh>wrote:> Om Gurave Namah> > Namaste Sanjay P.,> > That's a wonderful explanation about kala chakra and> gives me a new perspective about the whole thing,> because i had earlier thought that the animal pairs on> the opposite ends of the spoke denoted natural> enemies...Garuda (dhwaja yoni)- serpent (vrishabha> yoni),Cat-mouse, lion-elephant,dog-hare.> > While I agree that jupiter must be friendly with gaja> the animal, perhaps they may not represent the same> yoni. In Prasna marga Chapter on "Ashta Mangalam"> (looks almost similar to ashta dala padma...or are> they different?) they allot Jupiter to Simha yoni> (prithvi)and moon to gaja yoni. as Gaja (airavata) and> moon both originated from milky ocean (jala tattwa), i> thought that they do fit well together...> > Regards,> Lakshmi> > > --- sanjayprabhakaran <sanjaychettiar@g...>> wrote:> > > || Gurave Namah ||> > Namaste Lakshmi,> > > > I understand what you are saying about the> > Ashtadala padma.> > > > My understanding is that Ashtadala Padma or> > Kaalachakra is about> > harmony. The Animal which is denoted in opposite> > spoke indicates the> > animal which is in Harmony with planet in opposite> > spoke.> > > > The Planet/Diety indicated rides the animal> > opposite to spoke. How> > can a graha/dieity ride the animal if the animal is> > not friendly to> > the graha?. Jupiter is Friendly to Elephant hence> > sits opposite spoke> > to Jupiter where Moon is.> > > > Similars if mars can be taken as where Ganesha sits> > then opposite to> > it is Mouse who is friendly to Ganesha. Even though> > Mouse has same> > Saturnian character. Like carrier of desease etc.> > Once Ganesha rides> > it there is harmony.> > > > If you take Sun to be Shiva opposite is Bull, Nandi> > is after all one> > great bhakta of Shiva.> > > > Actually the Animal denoted in Ashtadala padma> > spoke just indicate a> > family/class of animals.> > > > These are my understanding. > > > > Warm Regards> > Sanjay P> > > > Hare Rama Krishna> > > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh> > <b_lakshmi_ramesh>> > wrote:> > > Om gurave Namah> > > > > > Dear Partha,> > > > > > The information I was referring to is contained in> > > Sanjay ji's lecture on Ashtadala Padma (Eight> > Petal> > > Lotus)available in the "Lectures" section of> > > Srath.com, apart from Prasna marga...hence the> > > confusion. Visti often referred to the ashtadala> > padma> > > and Garuda is representative Sun in the same. > > > > > > Perhaps my understanding is wrong somewhere. I> > wish> > > Guruji would correct me.> > > > > > Regards> > > Lakshmi> > > > > > > > > --- Partha Sarathy <partvinu@g...> wrote:> > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu> > > > may be there was a typo or some contextual> > > > statement with respect to gaja > > > > and kesari.> > > > As far as i am conerned Gaja is Jupiter as i> > > > remember very well in one of > > > > the lectures of Sanjayji. He said that the> > pranapada> > > > lagna in trines to > > > > Jupiter gives birth to elephants. There was> > another> > > > paper of Visti where he > > > > said that Jupiter and ketu together constitute> > > > Gajapati yoga, so Jupiter has > > > > to be that elephant head, Ketu is the headless> > one.> > > > so you were not wrong earlier.> > > > best wishes> > > > partha> > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/25/05, lakshmi ramesh> > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah> > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha,> > > > > > > > > > Namaste. Thanks for your reply and which> > > > particular> > > > > sloka were you referring to? My reference is> > based> > > > on> > > > > Vishnu Purana.> > > > > > > > > > I was wondering how moon is associated with> > > > "kesari",> > > > > and i discovered to my surprise that moon is> > > > infact> > > > > associated with gaja while jupiter is> > associated> > > > with> > > > > hari/simha, as per ashtadala padma and prasna> > > > marga. I> > > > > must admit that my earlier understanding of> > gaja> > > > > kesari had gone for a sirshasana!> > > > > > > > > > You must have known that I made a mistake, so> > why> > > > > didn't you correct me?> > > > > > > > > > But I had always associated Jupiter with> > elephant> > > > and> > > > > remember how we discussed that Jupiter+Ketu in> > > > your> > > > > 5th house represented Ganesha? > > > > > > > > > > So, who ultimately is Jupiter, Gaja or Kesari?> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > Lakshmi> > > > > > > > > > --- "V.Partha sarathy" <partvinu@g...> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi garu> > > > > > > > > > > > There could be another version such as sun> > > > starting> > > > > > the rajyoga, moon > > > > > > sustaining it> > > > > > Sun being the karaka for lagna, moon is> > karaka> > > > for> > > > > > arudha lagna> > > > > > Sun the real and moon the virtual> > > > > > Sun the impulse provider and moon the> > receptor.> > > > > > > > > > > > So many variations for the same sloka> > > > > > > > > > > > best wishes> > > > > > partha> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi> > ramesh > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:> > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Ramadas Rao ji & Partha,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have read from the Puranas that Sun's> > light> > > > > > resides> > > > > > > in Agni at night fall and moon draws this> > > > energy> > > > > > from> > > > > > > Agni to spread light in the world.> > Ofcourse,> > > > this> > > > > > is> > > > > > > nothing but the concept of tretaagni and> > Lord> > > > > > Nrisimha> > > > > > > emerged from this Third eye/saayam> > > > > > sandhya/Agni/Mars> > > > > > > to kill HiranyaKashipu.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could the mutual debilitation of Moon and> > Mars> > > > be> > > > > > > linked to this fact? So, whenever Moon is> > > > strong,> > > > > > Mars> > > > > > > is weak/debilitated because of loss of> > energy,> > > > > > while> > > > > > > when moon is weak (dark) Mars is strong> > > > because> > > > > > there> > > > > > > is no loss of energy?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Faulty logic? :--))> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > Lakshmi> > > === message truncated ===> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Dear Sanjay P, Sir, on temple visits recenty in tamilnadu, i came across many photographs of lord shiva holding a pouncing deer. also lord murugan temple at swami malai has paintings showing the peacock firmly holding the snake in its claws. why are these so? i was curios & ask the temple priest but he said he does not know. rgds manju jyotisa [jyotisa ]On Behalf Of sanjayprabhakaran Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:06 PM jyotisa Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? || Gurave Namah || Namaste Lakshmi, Just to add something to collect our thoughts, > If we consider their deities to be > Narayana/Vishnu, then the vahana should be Garuda. I > also think Maha Lakshmi's vahana is supposed to be an > owl, unless She's going for a joy ride on the family > vehicle with Vishnu:--)) Sanjay P: Considering Female diety to be at the place of Venus the Yoni opposite is Dhwaja, Dhwaja means flag or emblem or a that which is carried in hand too?. Now the animal opposite is Garuda (Or one in bird Family). Female dieties like Andaal, Meenakshiamman, Even form of Saraswati (Parrot) hold birds in Hand (Dwaja); Saraswati is also shown as riding a swan too. Just few points from my side. Warm Regards Sanjay P Hare Rama Krishna *tat savitur varenyam* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 sorry... just shot off the mail the pouncing deer is held in the left hand with 2 fingers making the victory sign. rgds manju jyotisa [jyotisa ]On Behalf Of Manjunath, T (GE Healthcare) Thursday, July 28, 2005 9:58 AM jyotisa RE: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? Dear Sanjay P, Sir, on temple visits recenty in tamilnadu, i came across many photographs of lord shiva holding a pouncing deer. also lord murugan temple at swami malai has paintings showing the peacock firmly holding the snake in its claws. why are these so? i was curios & ask the temple priest but he said he does not know. rgds manju jyotisa [jyotisa ]On Behalf Of sanjayprabhakaran Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:06 PM jyotisa Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? || Gurave Namah || Namaste Lakshmi, Just to add something to collect our thoughts, > If we consider their deities to be > Narayana/Vishnu, then the vahana should be Garuda. I > also think Maha Lakshmi's vahana is supposed to be an > owl, unless She's going for a joy ride on the family > vehicle with Vishnu:--)) Sanjay P: Considering Female diety to be at the place of Venus the Yoni opposite is Dhwaja, Dhwaja means flag or emblem or a that which is carried in hand too?. Now the animal opposite is Garuda (Or one in bird Family). Female dieties like Andaal, Meenakshiamman, Even form of Saraswati (Parrot) hold birds in Hand (Dwaja); Saraswati is also shown as riding a swan too. Just few points from my side. Warm Regards Sanjay P Hare Rama Krishna *tat savitur varenyam* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Sanjay P., I think you are right about the pakshi yoni, but then it appears as though there is a fine distinction between superior (Garuda) and inferioir birds (crow) in Kala chakra. This same distinction, I think can be seen among the felines too. I always identified Rahu with Durga. But in kala chakra Rahu seems to symbolise Kala Bhairava because " dog " is there at the opposing end. I think i need to research more to resolve a few puzzling factors like this. I could be very much off the mark here, but interestingly enough the kalachakra also seems to indicate the digbalas of planets in 1st, 4th 7th and 10th houses in a chart. If you start from Jupiter in the south (because the Sun is supposed to reside in the south before he starts his celestial journey), then you get Jupiter-Mercury/Venus-Saturn-Moon/Rahu/Sun-Mars. Except for Saturn, everything else seems to fit in. ofcourse Rahu behaves like Saturn and the crow chips nicely to complete the picture of Shanaiswara. another coincidence is that in Christian literature too there seem to be some references to the Eagle, Lion, Ox, and Human (not elephant) as the first creatures. But then as Sarbani pointed out, Kubera's vahana is Nara....do you think there could be some connection? Sanjay, like " Prabhakara " you are lighting up my mind with your knowledge and sharing. One request.. instead of calling you Sanjay P., can i call you Prabhakar, that is if you don't have any objection? I hope you don't mind my asking you this. Regards, Lakshmi --- sanjayprabhakaran <sanjaychettiar wrote: > || Gurave Namah || > Namaste Lakshmi, > > Just to add something to collect our thoughts, > > > If we consider their deities to be > > Narayana/Vishnu, then the vahana should be Garuda. > I > > also think Maha Lakshmi's vahana is supposed to be > an > > owl, unless She's going for a joy ride on the > family > > vehicle with Vishnu:--)) > > Sanjay P: Considering Female diety to be at the > place of Venus the > Yoni opposite is Dhwaja, Dhwaja means flag or emblem > or a that which > is carried in hand too?. Now the animal opposite is > Garuda (Or one in > bird Family). > > Female dieties like Andaal, Meenakshiamman, Even > form of Saraswati > (Parrot) hold birds in Hand (Dwaja); Saraswati is > also shown as > riding a swan too. > > Just few points from my side. > > Warm Regards > Sanjay P > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Guruji, Your mail has set my mind ticking and thinking. Now that the initial inertia had broken down, there's hope yet that i'll ultimately understand Kalachakra...though more likely to be later than sooner:--)) Regards, Lakshmi --- Guru Sanjay Rath <guruji wrote: > > > |om namo bhagavate vasudevaya| > Dear Sanjay > It is the principle of the wheel with eight spokes > and one axle - the axle > is Ketu! The wheel of time called kalachakra rolls > all the time and with it > does the destiny of billions of creatures in this > vast universe. In 24 hours > it rolls twice and this two fold rolling is the > principle of hora shastra > (duality - day and night). The total number of > kala's is 16 in 24 hours > which is the time equivalent of sodasamsa of the day > and controls all that > brings happniess and sorrow to the mind. It is this > happiness and sorrow > that guides all creatues in their activities - > except those few self > realised souls who are beyond happiness and sorrow. > With best wishes and warm regards, > Sanjay Rath > * * * > Sri Jagannath CenterR > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > New Delhi 110060, India > http://srath.com <http://srath.com/> , > +91-11-25717162 > * * * > > > > _____ > > jyotisa > [jyotisa ] On Behalf Of > sanjayprabhakaran > Tuesday, July 26, 2005 5:53 PM > jyotisa > Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? > > > || Gurave Namah || > Namaste Lakshmi, > Yes the Ashtamangala(8 Auspicious) uses Ashtadala > padma(Octal/8 lotus > petals). They are same to understand > Kaalachakra(Cycle of Time). > > I think the principle behind is that the quality > Time(Kaala) can be > determined by observing quality of related 8 > auspicious objects. Which > is also the principle behind Shakuna and nimmitta. > > Warm Regards > Sanjay P > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Sanjay P., > > > > That's a wonderful explanation about kala chakra > and > > gives me a new perspective about the whole thing, > > because i had earlier thought that the animal > pairs on > > the opposite ends of the spoke denoted natural > > enemies...Garuda (dhwaja yoni)- serpent (vrishabha > > yoni),Cat-mouse, lion-elephant,dog-hare. > > > > While I agree that jupiter must be friendly with > gaja > > the animal, perhaps they may not represent the > same > > yoni. In Prasna marga Chapter on " Ashta Mangalam " > > (looks almost similar to ashta dala padma...or are > > they different?) they allot Jupiter to Simha yoni > > (prithvi)and moon to gaja yoni. as Gaja (airavata) > and > > moon both originated from milky ocean (jala > tattwa), i > > thought that they do fit well together... > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > --- sanjayprabhakaran <sanjaychettiar@g...> > > wrote: > > > > > || Gurave Namah || > > > Namaste Lakshmi, > > > > > > I understand what you are saying about the > > > Ashtadala padma. > > > > > > My understanding is that Ashtadala Padma or > > > Kaalachakra is about > > > harmony. The Animal which is denoted in opposite > > > spoke indicates the > > > animal which is in Harmony with planet in > opposite > > > spoke. > > > > > > The Planet/Diety indicated rides the animal > > > opposite to spoke. How > > > can a graha/dieity ride the animal if the animal > is > > > not friendly to > > > the graha?. Jupiter is Friendly to Elephant > hence > > > sits opposite spoke > > > to Jupiter where Moon is. > > > > > > Similars if mars can be taken as where Ganesha > sits > > > then opposite to > > > it is Mouse who is friendly to Ganesha. Even > though > > > Mouse has same > > > Saturnian character. Like carrier of desease > etc. > > > Once Ganesha rides > > > it there is harmony. > > > > > > If you take Sun to be Shiva opposite is Bull, > Nandi > > > is after all one > > > great bhakta of Shiva. > > > > > > Actually the Animal denoted in Ashtadala padma > > > spoke just indicate a > > > family/class of animals. > > > > > > These are my understanding. > > > > > > Warm Regards > > > Sanjay P > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > > > wrote: > > > > Om gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > The information I was referring to is > contained in > > > > Sanjay ji's lecture on Ashtadala Padma (Eight > > > Petal > > > > Lotus)available in the " Lectures " section of > > > > Srath.com, apart from Prasna marga...hence the > > > > confusion. Visti often referred to the > ashtadala > > > padma > > > > and Garuda is representative Sun in the same. > > > > > > > > Perhaps my understanding is wrong somewhere. I > > > wish > > > > Guruji would correct me. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Partha Sarathy <partvinu@g...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu > > > > > may be there was a typo or some contextual > > > > > statement with respect to gaja > > > > > and kesari. > > > > > As far as i am conerned Gaja is Jupiter as i > > > > > remember very well in one of > > > > > the lectures of Sanjayji. He said that the > > > pranapada > > > > > lagna in trines to > > > > > Jupiter gives birth to elephants. There was > > > another > > > > > paper of Visti where he > > > > > said that Jupiter and ketu together > constitute > > > > > Gajapati yoga, so Jupiter has > > > > > to be that elephant head, Ketu is the > headless > > > one. > > > > > so you were not wrong earlier. > > > > > best wishes > > > > > partha > > > > > > === message truncated === __ Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Manjunath, Sorry for jumping in. I thought I'll just share my thoughts. I think the deer (mriga) stands for an uncontrollable, darting mind (chanchala). In the hands of Shiva, who symbolises " fixity " (He is called " Sthanuh " - The Still/Immobile One)such an unsteady/unfocussed mind gains stability & fixity of purpose and gets focussed on the Parabrahma. That is the victory of both Shiva and Jeeva. As I understand it, peacock overcomes its usual vanity when controlled by Guruguha, and its inner beauty (Aatma soundarya)coupled with strength of wisdom enable it to kill/ cleanse/control poisonous & evil thoughts. Isn't that the purpose for which Lord Muruga was born? I also await Sanjay P.'s interpretation. Regards, Lakshmi --- " Manjunath, T (GE Healthcare) " <T.Manjunath wrote: > Dear Sanjay P, > Sir, on temple visits recenty in tamilnadu, i came > across many photographs of lord shiva holding a > pouncing deer. > also lord murugan temple at swami malai has > paintings showing the peacock firmly holding the > snake in its claws. > > why are these so? i was curios & ask the temple > priest but he said he does not know. > > rgds > manju > > > jyotisa > [jyotisa ]On Behalf > Of sanjayprabhakaran > Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:06 PM > jyotisa > Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? > > > || Gurave Namah || > Namaste Lakshmi, > > Just to add something to collect our thoughts, > > > If we consider their deities to be > > Narayana/Vishnu, then the vahana should be Garuda. > I > > also think Maha Lakshmi's vahana is supposed to be > an > > owl, unless She's going for a joy ride on the > family > > vehicle with Vishnu:--)) > > Sanjay P: Considering Female diety to be at the > place of Venus the > Yoni opposite is Dhwaja, Dhwaja means flag or emblem > or a that which > is carried in hand too?. Now the animal opposite is > Garuda (Or one in > bird Family). > > Female dieties like Andaal, Meenakshiamman, Even > form of Saraswati > (Parrot) hold birds in Hand (Dwaja); Saraswati is > also shown as > riding a swan too. > > Just few points from my side. > > Warm Regards > Sanjay P > > Hare Rama Krishna > > *tat savitur varenyam* > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Namaste Lakshmi ji... such a wonderful name. thanks for your interesting reply, its made me curious enough, that i wanted to know if i may interpret then, if siva mantras are chanted, i can bring about the same serenity & calmness in my own mind. on lord murugan, i was surprised to see the sarpam in the peacock's clutches, as we always associate lord thiru murugan to be Naga-raja & protector of snakes. thanks for your time, regards, Manju jyotisa [jyotisa ]On Behalf Of lakshmi ramesh Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:25 PM jyotisa RE: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? Om Gurave Namah Namaste Manjunath, Sorry for jumping in. I thought I'll just share my thoughts. I think the deer (mriga) stands for an uncontrollable, darting mind (chanchala). In the hands of Shiva, who symbolises " fixity " (He is called " Sthanuh " - The Still/Immobile One)such an unsteady/unfocussed mind gains stability & fixity of purpose and gets focussed on the Parabrahma. That is the victory of both Shiva and Jeeva. As I understand it, peacock overcomes its usual vanity when controlled by Guruguha, and its inner beauty (Aatma soundarya)coupled with strength of wisdom enable it to kill/ cleanse/control poisonous & evil thoughts. Isn't that the purpose for which Lord Muruga was born? I also await Sanjay P.'s interpretation. Regards, Lakshmi --- " Manjunath, T (GE Healthcare) " <T.Manjunath wrote: > Dear Sanjay P, > Sir, on temple visits recenty in tamilnadu, i came > across many photographs of lord shiva holding a > pouncing deer. > also lord murugan temple at swami malai has > paintings showing the peacock firmly holding the > snake in its claws. > > why are these so? i was curios & ask the temple > priest but he said he does not know. > > rgds > manju > > > jyotisa > [jyotisa ]On Behalf > Of sanjayprabhakaran > Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:06 PM > jyotisa > Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? > > > || Gurave Namah || > Namaste Lakshmi, > > Just to add something to collect our thoughts, > > > If we consider their deities to be > > Narayana/Vishnu, then the vahana should be Garuda. > I > > also think Maha Lakshmi's vahana is supposed to be > an > > owl, unless She's going for a joy ride on the > family > > vehicle with Vishnu:--)) > > Sanjay P: Considering Female diety to be at the > place of Venus the > Yoni opposite is Dhwaja, Dhwaja means flag or emblem > or a that which > is carried in hand too?. Now the animal opposite is > Garuda (Or one in > bird Family). > > Female dieties like Andaal, Meenakshiamman, Even > form of Saraswati > (Parrot) hold birds in Hand (Dwaja); Saraswati is > also shown as > riding a swan too. > > Just few points from my side. > > Warm Regards > Sanjay P > > Hare Rama Krishna > > *tat savitur varenyam* > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Manjunath, I think praying to Shiva definitely helps. That's a brilliant question and i'll try to answer to the best of my ability, which ofcourse need not imply the best explanation:--)) I hope Ram Narayan also responds. He is really wonderful with his explanations. Lord Subrahmanya is Shakti swaroopa like kundalini serpent, which had risen through the 6 chakras (Shanmukha) and touched the Sahasraara. The serpent held by the peacock also has same potential, but is grounded by ego/tamasic thoughts and lacks the elevation and buoyant flight afforded by a pure, strong and resplendant inner self (peacock). It simply can not dance rapturously in the amrita raining from the heavens. I think it is all about the sura and asura (both share the same roots) within us, and the asura has to die if he is to be reborn as a higher immortal being...as a Sura. Regards, Lakshmi --- " Manjunath, T (GE Healthcare) " <T.Manjunath wrote: > Namaste Lakshmi ji... such a wonderful name. > > thanks for your interesting reply, its made me > curious enough, that i wanted to know if i may > interpret > then, if siva mantras are chanted, i can bring about > the same serenity & calmness in > my own mind. > > on lord murugan, i was surprised to see the sarpam > in the peacock's clutches, as we > always associate lord thiru murugan to be Naga-raja > & protector of snakes. > > thanks for your time, > regards, > Manju > > > jyotisa > [jyotisa ]On Behalf > Of lakshmi ramesh > Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:25 PM > jyotisa > RE: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Manjunath, > > Sorry for jumping in. I thought I'll just share my > thoughts. > > I think the deer (mriga) stands for an > uncontrollable, > darting mind (chanchala). In the hands of Shiva, who > symbolises " fixity " (He is called " Sthanuh " - The > Still/Immobile One)such an unsteady/unfocussed mind > gains stability & fixity of purpose and gets > focussed > on the Parabrahma. That is the victory of both Shiva > and Jeeva. > > As I understand it, peacock overcomes its usual > vanity > when controlled by Guruguha, and its inner beauty > (Aatma soundarya)coupled with strength of wisdom > enable it to kill/ cleanse/control poisonous & evil > thoughts. Isn't that the purpose for which Lord > Muruga > was born? > > I also await Sanjay P.'s interpretation. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > --- " Manjunath, T (GE Healthcare) " > <T.Manjunath wrote: > > > Dear Sanjay P, > > Sir, on temple visits recenty in tamilnadu, i came > > across many photographs of lord shiva holding a > > pouncing deer. > > also lord murugan temple at swami malai has > > paintings showing the peacock firmly holding the > > snake in its claws. > > > > why are these so? i was curios & ask the temple > > priest but he said he does not know. > > > > rgds > > manju > > > > > > jyotisa > > [jyotisa ]On Behalf > > Of sanjayprabhakaran > > Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:06 PM > > jyotisa > > Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? > > > > > > || Gurave Namah || > > Namaste Lakshmi, > > > > Just to add something to collect our thoughts, > > > > > If we consider their deities to be > > > Narayana/Vishnu, then the vahana should be > Garuda. > > I > > > also think Maha Lakshmi's vahana is supposed to > be > > an > > > owl, unless She's going for a joy ride on the > > family > > > vehicle with Vishnu:--)) > > > > Sanjay P: Considering Female diety to be at the > > place of Venus the > > Yoni opposite is Dhwaja, Dhwaja means flag or > emblem > > or a that which > > is carried in hand too?. Now the animal opposite > is > > Garuda (Or one in > > bird Family). > > > > Female dieties like Andaal, Meenakshiamman, Even > > form of Saraswati > > (Parrot) hold birds in Hand (Dwaja); Saraswati is > > also shown as > > riding a swan too. > > > > Just few points from my side. > > > > Warm Regards > > Sanjay P > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *tat savitur varenyam* > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Dear Lakshmi garu May i add. Karthikeya represents the agni tatwa of Manipura, and we all know that once the lower three chakras are crossed, it starts raining and thus peacock starts dancing. best wsihes partha On 7/28/05, lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: Om Gurave NamahNamaste Manjunath,I think praying to Shiva definitely helps. That's a brilliant question and i'll try to answer tothe best of my ability, which ofcourse need not implythe best explanation:--)) I hope Ram Narayan alsoresponds. He is really wonderful with hisexplanations. Lord Subrahmanya is Shakti swaroopa like kundaliniserpent, which had risen through the 6 chakras(Shanmukha) and touched the Sahasraara. The serpentheld by the peacock also has same potential, but is grounded by ego/tamasic thoughts and lacks theelevation and buoyant flight afforded by a pure,strong and resplendant inner self (peacock). It simplycan not dance rapturously in the amrita raining fromthe heavens. I think it is all about the sura and asura (both sharethe same roots) within us, and the asura has to die ifhe is to be reborn as a higher immortal being...as aSura. Regards,Lakshmi--- " Manjunath, T (GE Healthcare) " < T.Manjunath wrote:> Namaste Lakshmi ji... such a wonderful name.> > thanks for your interesting reply, its made me> curious enough, that i wanted to know if i may> interpret > then, if siva mantras are chanted, i can bring about> the same serenity & calmness in > my own mind. > > on lord murugan, i was surprised to see the sarpam> in the peacock's clutches, as we > always associate lord thiru murugan to be Naga-raja> & protector of snakes.> > thanks for your time,> regards,> Manju> > > jyotisa > [ jyotisa ]On Behalf> Of lakshmi ramesh> Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:25 PM> jyotisa > RE: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari?> > > Om Gurave Namah> > Namaste Manjunath,> > Sorry for jumping in. I thought I'll just share my > thoughts.> > I think the deer (mriga) stands for an> uncontrollable,> darting mind (chanchala). In the hands of Shiva, who> symbolises " fixity " (He is called " Sthanuh " - The > Still/Immobile One)such an unsteady/unfocussed mind> gains stability & fixity of purpose and gets> focussed> on the Parabrahma. That is the victory of both Shiva> and Jeeva. > > As I understand it, peacock overcomes its usual> vanity> when controlled by Guruguha, and its inner beauty> (Aatma soundarya)coupled with strength of wisdom> enable it to kill/ cleanse/control poisonous & evil > thoughts. Isn't that the purpose for which Lord> Muruga> was born?> > I also await Sanjay P.'s interpretation.> > Regards,> Lakshmi> > --- " Manjunath, T (GE Healthcare) " > <T.Manjunath wrote:> > > Dear Sanjay P,> > Sir, on temple visits recenty in tamilnadu, i came > > across many photographs of lord shiva holding a> > pouncing deer.> > also lord murugan temple at swami malai has> > paintings showing the peacock firmly holding the> > snake in its claws. > > > > why are these so? i was curios & ask the temple> > priest but he said he does not know.> > > > rgds> > manju> > > > > > jyotisa > > [ jyotisa ]On Behalf> > Of sanjayprabhakaran> > Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:06 PM> > jyotisa > > Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari?> > > > > > || Gurave Namah ||> > Namaste Lakshmi,> > > > Just to add something to collect our thoughts, > > > > > If we consider their deities to be> > > Narayana/Vishnu, then the vahana should be> Garuda.> > I> > > also think Maha Lakshmi's vahana is supposed to > be> > an> > > owl, unless She's going for a joy ride on the> > family> > > vehicle with Vishnu:--))> > > > Sanjay P: Considering Female diety to be at the > > place of Venus the > > Yoni opposite is Dhwaja, Dhwaja means flag or> emblem> > or a that which> > is carried in hand too?. Now the animal opposite> is> > Garuda (Or one in > > bird Family). > > > > Female dieties like Andaal, Meenakshiamman, Even> > form of Saraswati> > (Parrot) hold birds in Hand (Dwaja); Saraswati is> > also shown as > > riding a swan too.> > > > Just few points from my side.> > > > Warm Regards> > Sanjay P> > > > Hare Rama Krishna> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *tat savitur varenyam* > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Dear Lakshmiji, thanks for your time & explanation. with regards, sincerely, Manju jyotisa [jyotisa ]On Behalf Of lakshmi ramesh Thursday, July 28, 2005 4:23 PM jyotisa RE: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? Om Gurave Namah Namaste Manjunath, I think praying to Shiva definitely helps. That's a brilliant question and i'll try to answer to the best of my ability, which ofcourse need not imply the best explanation:--)) I hope Ram Narayan also responds. He is really wonderful with his explanations. Lord Subrahmanya is Shakti swaroopa like kundalini serpent, which had risen through the 6 chakras (Shanmukha) and touched the Sahasraara. The serpent held by the peacock also has same potential, but is grounded by ego/tamasic thoughts and lacks the elevation and buoyant flight afforded by a pure, strong and resplendant inner self (peacock). It simply can not dance rapturously in the amrita raining from the heavens. I think it is all about the sura and asura (both share the same roots) within us, and the asura has to die if he is to be reborn as a higher immortal being...as a Sura. Regards, Lakshmi --- " Manjunath, T (GE Healthcare) " <T.Manjunath wrote: > Namaste Lakshmi ji... such a wonderful name. > > thanks for your interesting reply, its made me > curious enough, that i wanted to know if i may > interpret > then, if siva mantras are chanted, i can bring about > the same serenity & calmness in > my own mind. > > on lord murugan, i was surprised to see the sarpam > in the peacock's clutches, as we > always associate lord thiru murugan to be Naga-raja > & protector of snakes. > > thanks for your time, > regards, > Manju > > > jyotisa > [jyotisa ]On Behalf > Of lakshmi ramesh > Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:25 PM > jyotisa > RE: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Manjunath, > > Sorry for jumping in. I thought I'll just share my > thoughts. > > I think the deer (mriga) stands for an > uncontrollable, > darting mind (chanchala). In the hands of Shiva, who > symbolises " fixity " (He is called " Sthanuh " - The > Still/Immobile One)such an unsteady/unfocussed mind > gains stability & fixity of purpose and gets > focussed > on the Parabrahma. That is the victory of both Shiva > and Jeeva. > > As I understand it, peacock overcomes its usual > vanity > when controlled by Guruguha, and its inner beauty > (Aatma soundarya)coupled with strength of wisdom > enable it to kill/ cleanse/control poisonous & evil > thoughts. Isn't that the purpose for which Lord > Muruga > was born? > > I also await Sanjay P.'s interpretation. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > --- " Manjunath, T (GE Healthcare) " > <T.Manjunath wrote: > > > Dear Sanjay P, > > Sir, on temple visits recenty in tamilnadu, i came > > across many photographs of lord shiva holding a > > pouncing deer. > > also lord murugan temple at swami malai has > > paintings showing the peacock firmly holding the > > snake in its claws. > > > > why are these so? i was curios & ask the temple > > priest but he said he does not know. > > > > rgds > > manju > > > > > > jyotisa > > [jyotisa ]On Behalf > > Of sanjayprabhakaran > > Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:06 PM > > jyotisa > > Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? > > > > > > || Gurave Namah || > > Namaste Lakshmi, > > > > Just to add something to collect our thoughts, > > > > > If we consider their deities to be > > > Narayana/Vishnu, then the vahana should be > Garuda. > > I > > > also think Maha Lakshmi's vahana is supposed to > be > > an > > > owl, unless She's going for a joy ride on the > > family > > > vehicle with Vishnu:--)) > > > > Sanjay P: Considering Female diety to be at the > > place of Venus the > > Yoni opposite is Dhwaja, Dhwaja means flag or > emblem > > or a that which > > is carried in hand too?. Now the animal opposite > is > > Garuda (Or one in > > bird Family). > > > > Female dieties like Andaal, Meenakshiamman, Even > > form of Saraswati > > (Parrot) hold birds in Hand (Dwaja); Saraswati is > > also shown as > > riding a swan too. > > > > Just few points from my side. > > > > Warm Regards > > Sanjay P > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *tat savitur varenyam* > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Sanjay ji, Just felt like sharing this small story from Sai Satcharitra with you... Once Sant Kabir watched a woman grind grain and started crying. When his guru Nipat Niranjan asked him why he was crying, Kabir replied that, like the grain, he too was caught between two stones (duality) and twisted & turned, without reprieve and without hope. Then Nipat Niranjan tells Kabir to hold on to the axle (gynaana),to cling to it, and never let go of it. To direct his vision inwards and he would be saved... Tad Vishnoh paramam padam sadaa pasyanti soorayah... Regards, Lakshmi --- Guru Sanjay Rath <guruji wrote: > > > |om namo bhagavate vasudevaya| > Dear Sanjay > It is the principle of the wheel with eight spokes > and one axle - the axle > is Ketu! The wheel of time called kalachakra rolls > all the time and with it > does the destiny of billions of creatures in this > vast universe. In 24 hours > it rolls twice and this two fold rolling is the > principle of hora shastra > (duality - day and night). The total number of > kala's is 16 in 24 hours > which is the time equivalent of sodasamsa of the day > and controls all that > brings happniess and sorrow to the mind. It is this > happiness and sorrow > that guides all creatues in their activities - > except those few self > realised souls who are beyond happiness and sorrow. > With best wishes and warm regards, > Sanjay Rath > * * * > Sri Jagannath CenterR > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > New Delhi 110060, India > http://srath.com <http://srath.com/> , > +91-11-25717162 > * * * > > > > _____ > > jyotisa > [jyotisa ] On Behalf Of > sanjayprabhakaran > Tuesday, July 26, 2005 5:53 PM > jyotisa > Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? > > > || Gurave Namah || > Namaste Lakshmi, > Yes the Ashtamangala(8 Auspicious) uses Ashtadala > padma(Octal/8 lotus > petals). They are same to understand > Kaalachakra(Cycle of Time). > > I think the principle behind is that the quality > Time(Kaala) can be > determined by observing quality of related 8 > auspicious objects. Which > is also the principle behind Shakuna and nimmitta. > > Warm Regards > Sanjay P > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Sanjay P., > > > > That's a wonderful explanation about kala chakra > and > > gives me a new perspective about the whole thing, > > because i had earlier thought that the animal > pairs on > > the opposite ends of the spoke denoted natural > > enemies...Garuda (dhwaja yoni)- serpent (vrishabha > > yoni),Cat-mouse, lion-elephant,dog-hare. > > > > While I agree that jupiter must be friendly with > gaja > > the animal, perhaps they may not represent the > same > > yoni. In Prasna marga Chapter on " Ashta Mangalam " > > (looks almost similar to ashta dala padma...or are > > they different?) they allot Jupiter to Simha yoni > > (prithvi)and moon to gaja yoni. as Gaja (airavata) > and > > moon both originated from milky ocean (jala > tattwa), i > > thought that they do fit well together... > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > --- sanjayprabhakaran <sanjaychettiar@g...> > > wrote: > > > > > || Gurave Namah || > > > Namaste Lakshmi, > > > > > > I understand what you are saying about the > > > Ashtadala padma. > > > > > > My understanding is that Ashtadala Padma or > > > Kaalachakra is about > > > harmony. The Animal which is denoted in opposite > > > spoke indicates the > > > animal which is in Harmony with planet in > opposite > > > spoke. > > > > > > The Planet/Diety indicated rides the animal > > > opposite to spoke. How > > > can a graha/dieity ride the animal if the animal > is > > > not friendly to > > > the graha?. Jupiter is Friendly to Elephant > hence > > > sits opposite spoke > > > to Jupiter where Moon is. > > > > > > Similars if mars can be taken as where Ganesha > sits > > > then opposite to > > > it is Mouse who is friendly to Ganesha. Even > though > > > Mouse has same > > > Saturnian character. Like carrier of desease > etc. > > > Once Ganesha rides > > > it there is harmony. > > > > > > If you take Sun to be Shiva opposite is Bull, > Nandi > > > is after all one > > > great bhakta of Shiva. > > > > > > Actually the Animal denoted in Ashtadala padma > > > spoke just indicate a > > > family/class of animals. > > > > > > These are my understanding. > > > > > > Warm Regards > > > Sanjay P > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > > > wrote: > > > > Om gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > The information I was referring to is > contained in > > > > Sanjay ji's lecture on Ashtadala Padma (Eight > > > Petal > > > > Lotus)available in the " Lectures " section of > > > > Srath.com, apart from Prasna marga...hence the > > > > confusion. Visti often referred to the > ashtadala > > > padma > > > > and Garuda is representative Sun in the same. > > > > > > > > Perhaps my understanding is wrong somewhere. I > > > wish > > > > Guruji would correct me. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Partha Sarathy <partvinu@g...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu > > > > > may be there was a typo or some contextual > > > > > statement with respect to gaja > > > > > and kesari. > > > > > As far as i am conerned Gaja is Jupiter as i > > > > > remember very well in one of > > > > > the lectures of Sanjayji. He said that the > > > pranapada > > > > > lagna in trines to > > > > > Jupiter gives birth to elephants. There was > > > another > > > > > paper of Visti where he > > > > > said that Jupiter and ketu together > constitute > > > > > Gajapati yoga, so Jupiter has > > > > > to be that elephant head, Ketu is the > headless > > > one. > > > > > so you were not wrong earlier. > > > > > best wishes > > > > > partha > > > > > > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Dear Partha, You are right and that's a nice rounding off!:--)) Affly, Lakshmi --- Partha Sarathy <partvinu wrote: > Dear Lakshmi garu > May i add. > Karthikeya represents the agni tatwa of Manipura, > and we all know that once > the lower three chakras are crossed, it starts > raining and thus peacock > starts dancing. > best wsihes > partha > > > On 7/28/05, lakshmi ramesh > <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Manjunath, > > > > I think praying to Shiva definitely helps. > > > > That's a brilliant question and i'll try to answer > to > > the best of my ability, which ofcourse need not > imply > > the best explanation:--)) I hope Ram Narayan also > > responds. He is really wonderful with his > > explanations. > > > > Lord Subrahmanya is Shakti swaroopa like kundalini > > serpent, which had risen through the 6 chakras > > (Shanmukha) and touched the Sahasraara. The > serpent > > held by the peacock also has same potential, but > is > > grounded by ego/tamasic thoughts and lacks the > > elevation and buoyant flight afforded by a pure, > > strong and resplendant inner self (peacock). It > simply > > can not dance rapturously in the amrita raining > from > > the heavens. > > > > I think it is all about the sura and asura (both > share > > the same roots) within us, and the asura has to > die if > > he is to be reborn as a higher immortal being...as > a > > Sura. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > --- " Manjunath, T (GE Healthcare) " > > <T.Manjunath wrote: > > > > > Namaste Lakshmi ji... such a wonderful name. > > > > > > thanks for your interesting reply, its made me > > > curious enough, that i wanted to know if i may > > > interpret > > > then, if siva mantras are chanted, i can bring > about > > > the same serenity & calmness in > > > my own mind. > > > > > > on lord murugan, i was surprised to see the > sarpam > > > in the peacock's clutches, as we > > > always associate lord thiru murugan to be > Naga-raja > > > & protector of snakes. > > > > > > thanks for your time, > > > regards, > > > Manju > > > > > > > > > jyotisa > > > [jyotisa ]On Behalf > > > Of lakshmi ramesh > > > Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:25 PM > > > jyotisa > > > RE: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Manjunath, > > > > > > Sorry for jumping in. I thought I'll just share > my > > > thoughts. > > > > > > I think the deer (mriga) stands for an > > > uncontrollable, > > > darting mind (chanchala). In the hands of Shiva, > who > > > symbolises " fixity " (He is called " Sthanuh " - > The > > > Still/Immobile One)such an unsteady/unfocussed > mind > > > gains stability & fixity of purpose and gets > > > focussed > > > on the Parabrahma. That is the victory of both > Shiva > > > and Jeeva. > > > > > > As I understand it, peacock overcomes its usual > > > vanity > > > when controlled by Guruguha, and its inner > beauty > > > (Aatma soundarya)coupled with strength of wisdom > > > enable it to kill/ cleanse/control poisonous & > evil > > > thoughts. Isn't that the purpose for which Lord > > > Muruga > > > was born? > > > > > > I also await Sanjay P.'s interpretation. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > --- " Manjunath, T (GE Healthcare) " > > > <T.Manjunath wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Sanjay P, > > > > Sir, on temple visits recenty in tamilnadu, i > came > > > > across many photographs of lord shiva holding > a > > > > pouncing deer. > > > > also lord murugan temple at swami malai has > > > > paintings showing the peacock firmly holding > the > > > > snake in its claws. > > > > > > > > why are these so? i was curios & ask the > temple > > > > priest but he said he does not know. > > > > > > > > rgds > > > > manju > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotisa > > > > [jyotisa ]On Behalf > > > > Of sanjayprabhakaran > > > > Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:06 PM > > > > jyotisa > > > > Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? > > > > > > > > > > > > || Gurave Namah || > > > > Namaste Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > Just to add something to collect our thoughts, > > > > > > > > > If we consider their deities to be > > > > > Narayana/Vishnu, then the vahana should be > > > Garuda. > > > > I > > > > > also think Maha Lakshmi's vahana is supposed > to > > > be > > > > an > > > > > owl, unless She's going for a joy ride on > the > > > > family > > > > > vehicle with Vishnu:--)) > > > > > > > > Sanjay P: Considering Female diety to be at > the > > > > place of Venus the > > > > Yoni opposite is Dhwaja, Dhwaja means flag or > > > emblem > > > > or a that which > > > > is carried in hand too?. Now the animal > opposite > > > is > > > > Garuda (Or one in > > > > bird Family). > > > > > > > > Female dieties like Andaal, Meenakshiamman, > Even > > > > form of Saraswati > > > > (Parrot) hold birds in Hand (Dwaja); Saraswati > is > > > > also shown as > > > > riding a swan too. > > > > > > > > Just few points from my side. > > > > > > > > Warm Regards > > > > Sanjay P > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === __ Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 || Gurave Namah || Namaste Manju, > Sir, on temple visits recenty in tamilnadu, i came across many photographs of lord shiva holding a pouncing deer. SanjayP: Once Brahma became an animal(deer) due his rajas. Shiva then became an Hunter and Shot him. I have not seen this picture you are talking about. But I think this story could be related. > also lord murugan temple at swami malai has paintings showing the peacock firmly holding the snake in its claws. SanjayP: After Killing the Asura (Rahu) into two, Murugan offers him pardon and gives him permenant place one as his Vahana/Vehicle Peacock and other as the Flag. The Flag is called Shiki (Another name for Ketu) and has the emblem of Cock(Signified by Sun). Here interestingly Skanda is between these icon above his head is Ketu (The Flag) and below him is the peacock. This story has similie to creation of Rahu and Ketu who were also born when Vishnu cut Son of Simhika, Asura in two. In this form of Murugan/Kathikeya, I think he takes the spoke of Venus where opposite is Dwaja (Flag) and Garuda(Peacock). One point which I want to express is that, When dieties are worshipped in higher forms. The diety can take form in any spoke of Kaalachakra. Like certain worshippers of Murugan/Karthikey have seen him in the form of Rama too. Thus the devotee gets more Vishnu tatwa and see the diety everywhere. This categorization into spoke will fail that time, But then you can use each form of same diety in various spokes. These are my understanding, I would like other learned members views too on this. Warm Regards Sanjay P > why are these so? i was curios & ask the temple priest but he said he does not know. > > rgds > manju > > > jyotisa [jyotisa ]On Behalf > Of sanjayprabhakaran > Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:06 PM > jyotisa > Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? > > > || Gurave Namah || > Namaste Lakshmi, > > Just to add something to collect our thoughts, > > > If we consider their deities to be > > Narayana/Vishnu, then the vahana should be Garuda. I > > also think Maha Lakshmi's vahana is supposed to be an > > owl, unless She's going for a joy ride on the family > > vehicle with Vishnu:--)) > > Sanjay P: Considering Female diety to be at the place of Venus the > Yoni opposite is Dhwaja, Dhwaja means flag or emblem or a that which > is carried in hand too?. Now the animal opposite is Garuda (Or one in > bird Family). > > Female dieties like Andaal, Meenakshiamman, Even form of Saraswati > (Parrot) hold birds in Hand (Dwaja); Saraswati is also shown as > riding a swan too. > > Just few points from my side. > > Warm Regards > Sanjay P > > Hare Rama Krishna > > *tat savitur varenyam* > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 || Gurave Namah || Namaste Lakshmiji, Pranaam, This is getting fun discussing , Similar to this story, Is the story of Dhruva Maharaaja. The story of Dhruva Maharaaja has much importance to Jyotish. Dhruva Maharaaja at very tender age, went to seek Vishnu on advice of his mother, When he was troubled by destiny. On his way Sage Narada interrupted him adviced him to go back home, When persual failed, the sage gave him a mantra to meditate (I think it was 'Om Namo Narayanaya'). After fructification of his Tapasya, Vishnu Granted him knowledge of destiny and wished him good life and at end told him that he will become a Star in the sky, which will help others seeking answers. This star is nothing but North Pole star, Called Dhruva in Jyotish. Observing this star one can tell destiny. Dhruva is pole star, When you observe him, You see all planets even Naskhatras/Signs rotate around him (longitudanal movement) and also towards and away from (Northern and southern declination). Dhruva shows the Axis in Jyotish, The path to Dhruva is shown by Sapta Rishis (The Seven Maharishis called Ursa Minor in English?). He shows all changes in time like Yuga's etc to the Pundits. Warm Regards Sanjay P Hare Rama Krishna jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Sanjay ji, > > Just felt like sharing this small story from Sai > Satcharitra with you... > > Once Sant Kabir watched a woman grind grain and > started crying. When his guru Nipat Niranjan asked him > why he was crying, Kabir replied that, like the grain, > he too was caught between two stones (duality) and > twisted & turned, without reprieve and without hope. > Then Nipat Niranjan tells Kabir to hold on to the axle > (gynaana),to cling to it, and never let go of it. To > direct his vision inwards and he would be saved... > > Tad Vishnoh paramam padam sadaa pasyanti soorayah... > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > --- Guru Sanjay Rath <guruji@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > |om namo bhagavate vasudevaya| > > Dear Sanjay > > It is the principle of the wheel with eight spokes > > and one axle - the axle > > is Ketu! The wheel of time called kalachakra rolls > > all the time and with it > > does the destiny of billions of creatures in this > > vast universe. In 24 hours > > it rolls twice and this two fold rolling is the > > principle of hora shastra > > (duality - day and night). The total number of > > kala's is 16 in 24 hours > > which is the time equivalent of sodasamsa of the day > > and controls all that > > brings happniess and sorrow to the mind. It is this > > happiness and sorrow > > that guides all creatues in their activities - > > except those few self > > realised souls who are beyond happiness and sorrow. > > With best wishes and warm regards, > > Sanjay Rath > > * * * > > Sri Jagannath CenterR > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > > New Delhi 110060, India > > http://srath.com <http://srath.com/> , > > +91-11-25717162 > > * * * > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > jyotisa > > [jyotisa ] On Behalf Of > > sanjayprabhakaran > > Tuesday, July 26, 2005 5:53 PM > > jyotisa > > Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? > > > > > > || Gurave Namah || > > Namaste Lakshmi, > > Yes the Ashtamangala(8 Auspicious) uses Ashtadala > > padma(Octal/8 lotus > > petals). They are same to understand > > Kaalachakra(Cycle of Time). > > > > I think the principle behind is that the quality > > Time(Kaala) can be > > determined by observing quality of related 8 > > auspicious objects. Which > > is also the principle behind Shakuna and nimmitta. > > > > Warm Regards > > Sanjay P > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > > wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay P., > > > > > > That's a wonderful explanation about kala chakra > > and > > > gives me a new perspective about the whole thing, > > > because i had earlier thought that the animal > > pairs on > > > the opposite ends of the spoke denoted natural > > > enemies...Garuda (dhwaja yoni)- serpent (vrishabha > > > yoni),Cat-mouse, lion-elephant,dog-hare. > > > > > > While I agree that jupiter must be friendly with > > gaja > > > the animal, perhaps they may not represent the > > same > > > yoni. In Prasna marga Chapter on " Ashta Mangalam " > > > (looks almost similar to ashta dala padma...or are > > > they different?) they allot Jupiter to Simha yoni > > > (prithvi)and moon to gaja yoni. as Gaja (airavata) > > and > > > moon both originated from milky ocean (jala > > tattwa), i > > > thought that they do fit well together... > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > --- sanjayprabhakaran <sanjaychettiar@g...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > || Gurave Namah || > > > > Namaste Lakshmi, > > > > > > > > I understand what you are saying about the > > > > Ashtadala padma. > > > > > > > > My understanding is that Ashtadala Padma or > > > > Kaalachakra is about > > > > harmony. The Animal which is denoted in opposite > > > > spoke indicates the > > > > animal which is in Harmony with planet in > > opposite > > > > spoke. > > > > > > > > The Planet/Diety indicated rides the animal > > > > opposite to spoke. How > > > > can a graha/dieity ride the animal if the animal > > is > > > > not friendly to > > > > the graha?. Jupiter is Friendly to Elephant > > hence > > > > sits opposite spoke > > > > to Jupiter where Moon is. > > > > > > > > Similars if mars can be taken as where Ganesha > > sits > > > > then opposite to > > > > it is Mouse who is friendly to Ganesha. Even > > though > > > > Mouse has same > > > > Saturnian character. Like carrier of desease > > etc. > > > > Once Ganesha rides > > > > it there is harmony. > > > > > > > > If you take Sun to be Shiva opposite is Bull, > > Nandi > > > > is after all one > > > > great bhakta of Shiva. > > > > > > > > Actually the Animal denoted in Ashtadala padma > > > > spoke just indicate a > > > > family/class of animals. > > > > > > > > These are my understanding. > > > > > > > > Warm Regards > > > > Sanjay P > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Om gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > > > The information I was referring to is > > contained in > > > > > Sanjay ji's lecture on Ashtadala Padma (Eight > > > > Petal > > > > > Lotus)available in the " Lectures " section of > > > > > Srath.com, apart from Prasna marga...hence the > > > > > confusion. Visti often referred to the > > ashtadala > > > > padma > > > > > and Garuda is representative Sun in the same. > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps my understanding is wrong somewhere. I > > > > wish > > > > > Guruji would correct me. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Partha Sarathy <partvinu@g...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu > > > > > > may be there was a typo or some contextual > > > > > > statement with respect to gaja > > > > > > and kesari. > > > > > > As far as i am conerned Gaja is Jupiter as i > > > > > > remember very well in one of > > > > > > the lectures of Sanjayji. He said that the > > > > pranapada > > > > > > lagna in trines to > > > > > > Jupiter gives birth to elephants. There was > > > > another > > > > > > paper of Visti where he > > > > > > said that Jupiter and ketu together > > constitute > > > > > > Gajapati yoga, so Jupiter has > > > > > > to be that elephant head, Ketu is the > > headless > > > > one. > > > > > > so you were not wrong earlier. > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 Dear Rathji, Please do a analysis, if possible, of the devastation caused in Maharashtra due to the record-breaking rains. It happened on July 26th and escalated within 2-3 hrs (after 1-2 pm). Too many people died and many children too. It is very very sad why God did this to a unsuspecting people who were just doing their daily routine ? We are hearing many courageous and heart-warming stories about how people helped each other and many sad stories too of young & old innocent lives just washed away. Thanks & Best Regards, Sonali Guru Sanjay Rath <guruji wrote: |om namo bhagavate vasudevaya| Dear Sanjay It is the principle of the wheel with eight spokes and one axle - the axle is Ketu! The wheel of time called kalachakra rolls all the time and with it does the destiny of billions of creatures in this vast universe. In 24 hours it rolls twice and this two fold rolling is the principle of hora shastra (duality - day and night). The total number of kala's is 16 in 24 hours which is the time equivalent of sodasamsa of the day and controls all that brings happniess and sorrow to the mind. It is this happiness and sorrow that guides all creatues in their activities - except those few self realised souls who are beyond happiness and sorrow. With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * jyotisa [jyotisa ] On Behalf Of sanjayprabhakaranTuesday, July 26, 2005 5:53 PMjyotisa Subject: Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? || Gurave Namah ||Namaste Lakshmi,Yes the Ashtamangala(8 Auspicious) uses Ashtadala padma(Octal/8 lotuspetals). They are same to understand Kaalachakra(Cycle of Time).I think the principle behind is that the quality Time(Kaala) can bedetermined by observing quality of related 8 auspicious objects. Whichis also the principle behind Shakuna and nimmitta.Warm RegardsSanjay PHare Rama Krishnajyotisa , lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh>wrote:> Om Gurave Namah> > Namaste Sanjay P.,> > That's a wonderful explanation about kala chakra and> gives me a new perspective about the whole thing,> because i had earlier thought that the animal pairs on> the opposite ends of the spoke denoted natural> enemies...Garuda (dhwaja yoni)- serpent (vrishabha> yoni),Cat-mouse, lion-elephant,dog-hare.> > While I agree that jupiter must be friendly with gaja> the animal, perhaps they may not represent the same> yoni. In Prasna marga Chapter on "Ashta Mangalam"> (looks almost similar to ashta dala padma...or are> they different?) they allot Jupiter to Simha yoni> (prithvi)and moon to gaja yoni. as Gaja (airavata) and> moon both originated from milky ocean (jala tattwa), i> thought that they do fit well together...> > Regards,> Lakshmi> > > --- sanjayprabhakaran <sanjaychettiar@g...>> wrote:> > > || Gurave Namah ||> > Namaste Lakshmi,> > > > I understand what you are saying about the> > Ashtadala padma.> > > > My understanding is that Ashtadala Padma or> > Kaalachakra is about> > harmony. The Animal which is denoted in opposite> > spoke indicates the> > animal which is in Harmony with planet in opposite> > spoke.> > > > The Planet/Diety indicated rides the animal> > opposite to spoke. How> > can a graha/dieity ride the animal if the animal is> > not friendly to> > the graha?. Jupiter is Friendly to Elephant hence> > sits opposite spoke> > to Jupiter where Moon is.> > > > Similars if mars can be taken as where Ganesha sits> > then opposite to> > it is Mouse who is friendly to Ganesha. Even though> > Mouse has same> > Saturnian character. Like carrier of desease etc.> > Once Ganesha rides> > it there is harmony.> > > > If you take Sun to be Shiva opposite is Bull, Nandi> > is after all one> > great bhakta of Shiva.> > > > Actually the Animal denoted in Ashtadala padma> > spoke just indicate a> > family/class of animals.> > > > These are my understanding. > > > > Warm Regards> > Sanjay P> > > > Hare Rama Krishna> > > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh> > <b_lakshmi_ramesh>> > wrote:> > > Om gurave Namah> > > > > > Dear Partha,> > > > > > The information I was referring to is contained in> > > Sanjay ji's lecture on Ashtadala Padma (Eight> > Petal> > > Lotus)available in the "Lectures" section of> > > Srath.com, apart from Prasna marga...hence the> > > confusion. Visti often referred to the ashtadala> > padma> > > and Garuda is representative Sun in the same. > > > > > > Perhaps my understanding is wrong somewhere. I> > wish> > > Guruji would correct me.> > > > > > Regards> > > Lakshmi> > > > > > > > > --- Partha Sarathy <partvinu@g...> wrote:> > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu> > > > may be there was a typo or some contextual> > > > statement with respect to gaja > > > > and kesari.> > > > As far as i am conerned Gaja is Jupiter as i> > > > remember very well in one of > > > > the lectures of Sanjayji. He said that the> > pranapada> > > > lagna in trines to > > > > Jupiter gives birth to elephants. There was> > another> > > > paper of Visti where he > > > > said that Jupiter and ketu together constitute> > > > Gajapati yoga, so Jupiter has > > > > to be that elephant head, Ketu is the headless> > one.> > > > so you were not wrong earlier.> > > > best wishes> > > > partha> > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/25/05, lakshmi ramesh> > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah> > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha,> > > > > > > > > > Namaste. Thanks for your reply and which> > > > particular> > > > > sloka were you referring to? My reference is> > based> > > > on> > > > > Vishnu Purana.> > > > > > > > > > I was wondering how moon is associated with> > > > "kesari",> > > > > and i discovered to my surprise that moon is> > > > infact> > > > > associated with gaja while jupiter is> > associated> > > > with> > > > > hari/simha, as per ashtadala padma and prasna> > > > marga. I> > > > > must admit that my earlier understanding of> > gaja> > > > > kesari had gone for a sirshasana!> > > > > > > > > > You must have known that I made a mistake, so> > why> > > > > didn't you correct me?> > > > > > > > > > But I had always associated Jupiter with> > elephant> > > > and> > > > > remember how we discussed that Jupiter+Ketu in> > > > your> > > > > 5th house represented Ganesha? > > > > > > > > > > So, who ultimately is Jupiter, Gaja or Kesari?> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > Lakshmi> > > > > > > > > > --- "V.Partha sarathy" <partvinu@g...> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi garu> > > > > > > > > > > > There could be another version such as sun> > > > starting> > > > > > the rajyoga, moon > > > > > > sustaining it> > > > > > Sun being the karaka for lagna, moon is> > karaka> > > > for> > > > > > arudha lagna> > > > > > Sun the real and moon the virtual> > > > > > Sun the impulse provider and moon the> > receptor.> > > > > > > > > > > > So many variations for the same sloka> > > > > > > > > > > > best wishes> > > > > > partha> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi> > ramesh > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:> > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Ramadas Rao ji & Partha,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have read from the Puranas that Sun's> > light> > > > > > resides> > > > > > > in Agni at night fall and moon draws this> > > > energy> > > > > > from> > > > > > > Agni to spread light in the world.> > Ofcourse,> > > > this> > > > > > is> > > > > > > nothing but the concept of tretaagni and> > Lord> > > > > > Nrisimha> > > > > > > emerged from this Third eye/saayam> > > > > > sandhya/Agni/Mars> > > > > > > to kill HiranyaKashipu.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could the mutual debilitation of Moon and> > Mars> > > > be> > > > > > > linked to this fact? So, whenever Moon is> > > > strong,> > > > > > Mars> > > > > > > is weak/debilitated because of loss of> > energy,> > > > > > while> > > > > > > when moon is weak (dark) Mars is strong> > > > because> > > > > > there> > > > > > > is no loss of energy?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Faulty logic? :--))> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > Lakshmi> > > === message truncated ===> > > > > > Do You ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2005 Report Share Posted July 30, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Sanjay, Somewhere between Saptarshi mandala and Dhruvapadam is the Vishnu Padam, so says Vishnu Purana. Hence he is the Crux of the world, all that is unmoving and moving is nothing but His extension. In the mumbai conference some one commented that Saptarshi mandala is in Pushyami nakshatra. Talking about Maharshis reminds me of another interesting thing. the vishnu purana again says that to the north of Naaga veedhi (Aries) is the siddha loka / Deva loka and to the south of Aja veedhi (Sagittarius) is the Pitri loka. Hence, perhaps the dictum that all those who die during Uttarayana go to deva loka while all those who die during Dakshinaayana go to Pitri loka. I think it is based on the proxomity factor! The vishnu purana also adds that the Pitri loka also contains Maharshis. I was puzzled by this information, until I remembered that Maharshis are infact our Pitris, because each one of us has the good fortune of descending from a Maharshi, though we no longer seem to remember that, except at the time of religious rituals. Regards, Lakshmi --- sanjayprabhakaran <sanjaychettiar wrote: > || Gurave Namah || > Namaste Lakshmiji, > Pranaam, > > This is getting fun discussing , > > Similar to this story, Is the story of Dhruva > Maharaaja. The story > of Dhruva Maharaaja has much importance to Jyotish. > > Dhruva Maharaaja at very tender age, went to seek > Vishnu on advice of > his mother, When he was troubled by destiny. On his > way Sage Narada > interrupted him adviced him to go back home, When > persual failed, the > sage gave him a mantra to meditate (I think it was > 'Om Namo Narayanaya'). > After fructification of his Tapasya, Vishnu Granted > him knowledge of > destiny and wished him good life and at end told him > that he will > become a Star in the sky, which will help others > seeking answers. > > This star is nothing but North Pole star, Called > Dhruva in Jyotish. > Observing this star one can tell destiny. > > Dhruva is pole star, When you observe him, You see > all planets even > Naskhatras/Signs rotate around him (longitudanal > movement) and also > towards and away from (Northern and southern > declination). > > Dhruva shows the Axis in Jyotish, The path to > Dhruva is shown by > Sapta Rishis (The Seven Maharishis called Ursa Minor > in English?). He > shows all changes in time like Yuga's etc to the > Pundits. > > > Warm Regards > Sanjay P > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Sanjay ji, > > > > Just felt like sharing this small story from Sai > > Satcharitra with you... > > > > Once Sant Kabir watched a woman grind grain and > > started crying. When his guru Nipat Niranjan asked > him > > why he was crying, Kabir replied that, like the > grain, > > he too was caught between two stones (duality) and > > twisted & turned, without reprieve and without > hope. > > Then Nipat Niranjan tells Kabir to hold on to the > axle > > (gynaana),to cling to it, and never let go of it. > To > > direct his vision inwards and he would be saved... > > > > Tad Vishnoh paramam padam sadaa pasyanti > soorayah... > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > --- Guru Sanjay Rath <guruji@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > |om namo bhagavate vasudevaya| > > > Dear Sanjay > > > It is the principle of the wheel with eight > spokes > > > and one axle - the axle > > > is Ketu! The wheel of time called kalachakra > rolls > > > all the time and with it > > > does the destiny of billions of creatures in > this > > > vast universe. In 24 hours > > > it rolls twice and this two fold rolling is the > > > principle of hora shastra > > > (duality - day and night). The total number of > > > kala's is 16 in 24 hours > > > which is the time equivalent of sodasamsa of the > day > > > and controls all that > > > brings happniess and sorrow to the mind. It is > this > > > happiness and sorrow > > > that guides all creatues in their activities - > > > except those few self > > > realised souls who are beyond happiness and > sorrow. > > > With best wishes and warm regards, > > > Sanjay Rath > > > * * * > > > Sri Jagannath CenterR > > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > > > New Delhi 110060, India > > > http://srath.com <http://srath.com/> , > > > +91-11-25717162 > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > jyotisa > > > [jyotisa ] On Behalf Of > > > sanjayprabhakaran > > > Tuesday, July 26, 2005 5:53 PM > > > jyotisa > > > Re: Jupiter-Gaja or Kesari? > > > > > > > > > || Gurave Namah || > > > Namaste Lakshmi, > > > Yes the Ashtamangala(8 Auspicious) uses > Ashtadala > > > padma(Octal/8 lotus > > > petals). They are same to understand > > > Kaalachakra(Cycle of Time). > > > > > > I think the principle behind is that the quality > > > Time(Kaala) can be > > > determined by observing quality of related 8 > > > auspicious objects. Which > > > is also the principle behind Shakuna and > nimmitta. > > > > > > Warm Regards > > > Sanjay P > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > > > > jyotisa , lakshmi ramesh > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> > > > wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay P., > > > > > > > > That's a wonderful explanation about kala > chakra > > > and > > > > gives me a new perspective about the whole > thing, > > > > because i had earlier thought that the animal > > > pairs on > > > > the opposite ends of the spoke denoted natural > > > > enemies...Garuda (dhwaja yoni)- serpent > (vrishabha > > > > yoni),Cat-mouse, lion-elephant,dog-hare. > > > > > > > > While I agree that jupiter must be friendly > with > > > gaja > > > > the animal, perhaps they may not represent the > > > same > > > > yoni. In Prasna marga Chapter on " Ashta > Mangalam " > > > > (looks almost similar to ashta dala padma...or > are > > > > they different?) they allot Jupiter to Simha > yoni > > > > (prithvi)and moon to gaja yoni. as Gaja > (airavata) > > > and > > > > moon both originated from milky ocean (jala > > > tattwa), i > > > > thought that they do fit well together... > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > --- sanjayprabhakaran <sanjaychettiar@g...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > || Gurave Namah || > > > > > Namaste Lakshmi, > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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