Guest guest Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 |om namo bhagavate vasudevaya| Dear Willa Your husband is right. Now think of people in Venus - Sun rises in west and sets in the east. Does this make a difference? Maybe it does, maybe it makes people in Venus think that 7th house is the lagna and vice versa, maybe it brings the total focus on the 7th house. With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * jyotisa [jyotisa ] On Behalf Of Willa Keizer, C.C.H.Saturday, July 16, 2005 4:44 AMjyotisa Subject: Venus' orbit Om Krishna Guru, Dear Sanjay and Visti, I received Visti's new book this week and am so delighted with it-- congratulations on such a useful and beautiful work! As my husband is an avid astronomer, I asked him about the statement on page 339 which says that Venus is the only planet whose motion is anti clockwise around the sun. According to modern astonomy, all the planets go the same direction around the sun, but Venus rotates on its axis in the reverse direction of its orbit. It is the only planet to do so. Here's a quote from the web site of the National Weather Service: http://www.crh.noaa.gov/fsd/astro/venus.htm VENUS Venus is the second closest planet to our Sun at an average distance 67 million miles. It revolves around the Sun every 225 Earth days, but its rotation takes 243 Earth days. One other interesting note is that Venus rotates clockwise, the only planet in our solar system to do so, and contrary to its own orbit around the Sun. New research suggests that the "backward" rotation is caused by tides which are raised in the thick atmosphere by the Sun, and with friction interaction between the atmosphere and planet itself. It is hypothesized that these interactions caused Venus's rotation to slow, stop, and then reverse. This is somewhat similar to what is happening here on Earth, as our Moon's pull on our oceans causes tides whose subsequent friction is gradually slowing Earth's rotation. Venus is one of only three planets in our solar system which has a perfect circular sphere (the other two being Mercury and Pluto). I would like some clarification if this teaching in Visti's book is from the parampara, and if I'm just misunderstanding it, or any other explanation. It's an important point because it affects whether Venus is combust when retrograde or not. Thanks, and best wishes, Willa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Of course it would seem that it's spinning the other way, which is what it does. But you'd need electron telescopes to tell the movement differences, because they'd be infinitesmally minute. The rev can't be in the other direction, though; that'd be defying centripetal physics. Sanjay, als consider introducing an astronomy primer. It might be banal and all that, but it'll at least leave the curriculum a little more rounded and complete. What has hurt me quite a bit in astrology studies (apart from IQ) has been the utter lack of any sort of astronomical grounding. Can't blame anyone for that, but it's a fact nonetheless. Respects, Ramapriya ayirpamar On 7/16/05, Guru Sanjay Rath <guruji wrote: |om namo bhagavate vasudevaya| And Ramapriya, just a thought If we consider a day as defining the position of refernce to motion then would it seem that Venus is going in the reverse direction.Like say we take the points when a new day begins in Venus, then would it seem that Venus is moving in the direction opposite to the other planets. Just maybe this can be a way of looking ... With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Ramapriya, I second you on that. I think an astrology primer is a must. Best regards, Sarbani jyotisa [jyotisa ] On Behalf Of Ramapriya DSaturday, July 16, 2005 9:16 AMjyotisa Subject: Re: Venus' orbit Of course it would seem that it's spinning the other way, which is what it does. But you'd need electron telescopes to tell the movement differences, because they'd be infinitesmally minute. The rev can't be in the other direction, though; that'd be defying centripetal physics. Sanjay, als consider introducing an astronomy primer. It might be banal and all that, but it'll at least leave the curriculum a little more rounded and complete. What has hurt me quite a bit in astrology studies (apart from IQ) has been the utter lack of any sort of astronomical grounding. Can't blame anyone for that, but it's a fact nonetheless. Respects, Ramapriya ayirpamar On 7/16/05, Guru Sanjay Rath <guruji wrote: |om namo bhagavate vasudevaya| And Ramapriya, just a thought If we consider a day as defining the position of refernce to motion then would it seem that Venus is going in the reverse direction.Like say we take the points when a new day begins in Venus, then would it seem that Venus is moving in the direction opposite to the other planets. Just maybe this can be a way of looking ... With best wishes and warm regards, Sanjay Rath * * * Sri Jagannath Center® 15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, India http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 * * * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 Hi Sarajit, Nice to hear from you again; hope you're well and fine ) On 7/17/05, Sarajit Poddar <sarajitp wrote: || Jaya Jagannath ||Dear Rama and Gurudev,The retrogression is caused due to the relative motion of the planets with respect to the Sun no and that of Earth around the Sun. yes. this alone. Planets don't retrograde, it's just an apparent thing because of earth's revs around the Sun. If the earth hadn't been revolving, we'd have seen no planet retrograde. The attached GIFs might help. But you know all this! This means that the revolution of the planets around Sun is crucial to judge the astronomical event of retrogression and the Rotation on their own axis is unimportant. true So how does the revolution of Venus differs as that of other planets. it doesn't. it can't. Respects, Rama ayirpamar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 Hi Sarajit, Nice to hear from you again; hope you're well and fine ) On 7/17/05, Sarajit Poddar <sarajitp wrote: || Jaya Jagannath ||Dear Rama and Gurudev,The retrogression is caused due to the relative motion of the planets with respect to the Sun no and that of Earth around the Sun. yes. this alone. Planets don't retrograde, it's just an apparent thing because of earth's revs around the Sun. If the earth hadn't been revolving, we'd have seen no planet retrograde. And Sarajit, I'll later mail you a couple of GIFs on retrogression for more clarity, k? But you know all this anyway! This means that the revolution of the planets around Sun is crucial to judge the astronomical event of retrogression and the Rotation on their own axis is unimportant. true So how does the revolution of Venus differs as that of other planets. it doesn't. it can't. Respects, Rama ayirpamar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 I know you want to toy with me here, Sarajit, but let me try answering ) On 7/17/05, Sarajit Poddar <sarajitp wrote: As you said, the retrogression is apparent. Yes, it all depends on thepoint of observation. If the observer is sitting on the Sun, then there is no retrogression as all the planets shall appear to be movingin direct motion. I'm not terribly sure that Moon wouldn't at some point appear retrograde if you sat on the Sun and saw 'em all go by \ Howevever only when the observer is sitting on Earth the planet can appear to be moving in reverse direction. Only those that revolve the Sun Moreover, the direction of rotation of earth doesnot have any impacton the astronomical event of retrogression. The retrogression happens only because, when seen from earth's center (geocentric position) rubbing it in again, I see ) I still remain fascinated with the topocentric view, though; if you consider everything from a point on the earth's surface, why not the planetary positions too? Why merely the lagnas? each day the planets appears to be shifting in a backward direction, whichhappens due to difference in speed of rotation of planets in different orbits. Not at all. What has the speed of rotation got to do with retrogression, mate? Even if the planets didn't rotate at all, they'd still appear retrograde at particular points on their revolutionary orbits vis-a-vis the earth's position Can you tell me why Sun and the Moon never retrograde? For a planet to appear retrograde from the earth, that planet has to revolve the sun, just like the earth does. And neither the sun nor moon fulfills that criterion. Was that the litmus Q then? ) Respects, Rama ayirpamar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 Dear Sarbani, On 7/17/05, Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Will be highly obliged for further clarification on Venus's orbital motion as I am supposed to be working on this for the Delhi Conference. Hope Venus isn't retro then ;o) As Sarajit rightly pointed out, the retrogression of any planet is only apparent, and the planets only 'appear' to move backwards, when in actuality they become almost stationary at those times. What the heck is this new thing now? They go from direct to stationary and backwards too. Wasn't Saturn till lately in Gemini having stepped backwards from Cancer? I'll send you the GIFs I sent Sarajit too. Just imagine two running trains on parallel tracks running at slightly different speeds. Both trains appear direct for a brief while before the speeds equalize when both appear stationary, before the faster train leaves the slower one apparently retrograding. This is also much the same thing. The only thing different about Venus is it's rotation which is anti clockwise. So there is no difference in the revolution of the planets but only in the rotation pattern of Venus and the other planets. If you can call that rotation at all, in the first place. Since the rate of rotation is slower than the rate of revolution, you can assume that the thing is standstill. Much like the Moon, as I stated yesterday. This raises the following questions: 1. Is rotation important? For astrology, nope. Having said that, it's rotation that causes nodes in all planets. Begs me to ask whether it's these nodes that are the various upagrahas we use like dhoom, etc. 2. Does Venus' rotation have any astrological implications? Will it impact its transit? Never heard of rotation having any implication. Remember that inter-planetary gravitation pulls are nothing to write home about. Even when Mars or some other planet passes us close, it isn't as if it's exerting any pulls on us. To each, its own. Do not accept anything of what I've said without a proper pinch of skepticism. Please. Erudition isn't at all proportional to the number of words one writes ) Respects, Ramapriya ayirpamar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 Dear Willa, While we're on it, Uranus and Pluto rotate the other way too, so Venus has some company ) I don't know if the " forbidding atmosphere = tamasik " dictum would stand much scrutiny, because Saturnian and Jupiterian atmospheres are more or less comparable, and Mars is just a tad more severe than Earth's. And there is some hypotheses suggesting that there was life on Venus eons ago with surface water and all that kind of thing. Respects, Ramapriya ayirpamar PS: Want some GIFs on retrogression? Sarajit liked 'em, and you might too. On 7/17/05, Willa Keizer, C.C.H. <willa wrote: Hi Sarbani, According to my reading, astronomers hypothesise that Venus' rotation started out being in same direction as the other planets (as well as its own orbit), but the thick atmosphere caused the rotation to slow and eventually reverse. Since Venus is considered guru to the demons, perhaps this is connected with this reverse rotation? Thick atmosphere= tamasic forces. Reverse rotation =rahu, anti-sunwise, anti-light. Just a thought.... Willa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Ramapriya, As far as I know, and I can be completely wrong on this, that astronomically planets don't actually move backwards, they only appear to do so. Astrologically they move backwards. What you write in the second point is what I am driving towards, that is the allegory about the two parallel trains. About the almost nil rotation of Venus: the astrological significance might be there. Its worth exploring. I am not accepting or 'not accepting' anything. I am trying to learn and think. I don't have any views at the moment on this matter. Best regards, Sarbani jyotisa [jyotisa ] On Behalf Of Ramapriya DSunday, July 17, 2005 2:32 PMjyotisa Subject: Re: Venus' orbit Dear Sarbani, On 7/17/05, Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Will be highly obliged for further clarification on Venus's orbital motion as I am supposed to be working on this for the Delhi Conference. Hope Venus isn't retro then ;o) As Sarajit rightly pointed out, the retrogression of any planet is only apparent, and the planets only 'appear' to move backwards, when in actuality they become almost stationary at those times. What the heck is this new thing now? They go from direct to stationary and backwards too. Wasn't Saturn till lately in Gemini having stepped backwards from Cancer? I'll send you the GIFs I sent Sarajit too. Just imagine two running trains on parallel tracks running at slightly different speeds. Both trains appear direct for a brief while before the speeds equalize when both appear stationary, before the faster train leaves the slower one apparently retrograding. This is also much the same thing. The only thing different about Venus is it's rotation which is anti clockwise. So there is no difference in the revolution of the planets but only in the rotation pattern of Venus and the other planets. If you can call that rotation at all, in the first place. Since the rate of rotation is slower than the rate of revolution, you can assume that the thing is standstill. Much like the Moon, as I stated yesterday. This raises the following questions: 1. Is rotation important? For astrology, nope. Having said that, it's rotation that causes nodes in all planets. Begs me to ask whether it's these nodes that are the various upagrahas we use like dhoom, etc. 2. Does Venus' rotation have any astrological implications? Will it impact its transit? Never heard of rotation having any implication. Remember that inter-planetary gravitation pulls are nothing to write home about. Even when Mars or some other planet passes us close, it isn't as if it's exerting any pulls on us. To each, its own. Do not accept anything of what I've said without a proper pinch of skepticism. Please. Erudition isn't at all proportional to the number of words one writes ) Respects, Ramapriya ayirpamar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 On 7/17/05, Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Ramapriya, As far as I know, and I can be completely wrong on this, that astronomically planets don't actually move backwards, they only appear to do so. Astrologically they move backwards. I've good news for you. Planets can never actually reverse. It's like they're all moving around Sun in a largely set centripetal pattern, as part of a much bigger system. Planets can't stop revolving, and to retain you and your laptop on its surface for these discussions, the earth can't stop rotating either ;o) What you write in the second point is what I am driving towards, that is the allegory about the two parallel trains. About the almost nil rotation of Venus: the astrological significance might be there. Its worth exploring. I am not accepting or 'not accepting' anything. I am trying to learn and think. I don't have any views at the moment on this matter. I hope someone comments on what the nodes of the other planets - are they the chaya grahas and the upagrahas that we hear about? If not, how evil or otherwise are those nodes? Respects, Ramapriya ayirpamar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 Dear Sarbani, I like that-- lovely!! Best wishes, Willa - Sarbani Sarkar jyotisa Sunday, July 17, 2005 6:34 AM RE: Venus' orbit Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Willa, Could it be that it is symbolic of Venus reversing the journey of the soul from moksha marga to bhoga marga? Best regards, Sarbani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Ramapriya, Varahamihira, in Brhat Samhita, talks about the Rahu and Ketu of other grahas. He even talks about the different kinds of Ketus and refers to them at one point as Tamrakilakas. He does not mention whether they are the same as the Upagrahas...at least to my knowledge. As regarding the other point about revolution and rotation: I think we are driving at the same point. Best regards, Sarbani jyotisa [jyotisa ] On Behalf Of Ramapriya DSunday, July 17, 2005 4:06 PMjyotisa Subject: Re: Venus' orbit On 7/17/05, Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Ramapriya, As far as I know, and I can be completely wrong on this, that astronomically planets don't actually move backwards, they only appear to do so. Astrologically they move backwards. I've good news for you. Planets can never actually reverse. It's like they're all moving around Sun in a largely set centripetal pattern, as part of a much bigger system. Planets can't stop revolving, and to retain you and your laptop on its surface for these discussions, the earth can't stop rotating either ;o) What you write in the second point is what I am driving towards, that is the allegory about the two parallel trains. About the almost nil rotation of Venus: the astrological significance might be there. Its worth exploring. I am not accepting or 'not accepting' anything. I am trying to learn and think. I don't have any views at the moment on this matter. I hope someone comments on what the nodes of the other planets - are they the chaya grahas and the upagrahas that we hear about? If not, how evil or otherwise are those nodes? Respects, Ramapriya ayirpamar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Dear Sarajit, On 7/17/05, Ramapriya D <ayirpamar wrote: On 7/17/05, Sarajit Poddar <sarajitp > wrote: As you said, the retrogression is apparent. Yes, it all depends on thepoint of observation. If the observer is sitting on the Sun, then there is no retrogression as all the planets shall appear to be movingin direct motion. I'm not terribly sure that Moon wouldn't at some point appear retrograde if you sat on the Sun and saw 'em all go by \ On introspection, I think I was badly wrong here. The Moon too will never appear retrograde when viewed from the Sun. Its orbit will roughly resemble a circle with thirteen small convex bumps. Picture two cyclists in a velodrome overtaking one another in turns, and you'll discover this too. This is one of the reasons why I'd stated in another threads that the Moon doesn't really orbit the Earth as such, but that both orbit each other. The Moon can never loop the earth, but darts in and out in an almost sinusoidal path along the center of the Earth's orbital path. Sorry for the error. It was genuine, and not a troll ) Respects, Ramapriya ayirpamar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 ||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Ramapriya and Sarbani, Namaskar The nodes of the Moon are particularly important to understand the karma of manushya jataka (moon) and how the extremes of good and bad karma are measured and manifested for the individual. Similarly the other nodes have functions for their particular beings. Astronomically the nodes of the other planets are practical in timing the lattitudal combustion of a planet, which should not be ignorred. Best wishes, *** Visti Larsen For services and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com *** jyotisa [jyotisa ] On Behalf Of Ramapriya D 17 July 2005 16:06 jyotisa Re: Venus' orbit On 7/17/05, Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Ramapriya, As far as I know, and I can be completely wrong on this, that astronomically planets don't actually move backwards, they only appear to do so. Astrologically they move backwards. I've good news for you. Planets can never actually reverse. It's like they're all moving around Sun in a largely set centripetal pattern, as part of a much bigger system. Planets can't stop revolving, and to retain you and your laptop on its surface for these discussions, the earth can't stop rotating either ;o) What you write in the second point is what I am driving towards, that is the allegory about the two parallel trains. About the almost nil rotation of Venus: the astrological significance might be there. Its worth exploring. I am not accepting or 'not accepting' anything. I am trying to learn and think. I don't have any views at the moment on this matter. I hope someone comments on what the nodes of the other planets - are they the chaya grahas and the upagrahas that we hear about? If not, how evil or otherwise are those nodes? Respects, Ramapriya ayirpamar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 On 7/19/05, Visti Larsen <visti wrote: ||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Ramapriya and Sarbani, Namaskar Astronomically the nodes of the other planets are practical in timing the lattitudal combustion of a planet, which should not be ignorred. And in graha yuddha too, you might agree. Respects, Ramapriya ayirpamar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 ||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Ramapriya, Namaskar Yup, if we are looking at lattitudal strength. Surya Siddhanta seems to call the nodes; pata. It would be nice to see the ‘pata’ for each planet in software. Best wishes, *** Visti Larsen For services and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com *** jyotisa [jyotisa ] On Behalf Of Ramapriya D 20 July 2005 09:47 jyotisa Re: Venus' orbit On 7/19/05, Visti Larsen <visti wrote: ||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Ramapriya and Sarbani, Namaskar Astronomically the nodes of the other planets are practical in timing the lattitudal combustion of a planet, which should not be ignorred. And in graha yuddha too, you might agree. Respects, Ramapriya ayirpamar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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