[Jagannath] Why are you all sleeping?

[Guest guest]

If I may (as a lowly member of the female gender of course!) comment on the message extract below -

 

Someone attempting to communicate a new concept will attempt to do so in terms of the mind set of the receiver. Here Krsna's comment may be considered as one who understands the mindset and values of the hearer - i.e. Arjuna. It should not necessarily be taken as reflecting Krsna's opinions (BTW does God have 'opinions'? It seems rather incongrues to me).

 

As I personally do not to any considerations of caste, creed, authority, or even gender (these I consider to be part of the maya we are caught up in - direct experience seems to me the only possible means of knowledge), to me this whole discussion seems as pertinent as the medieval christian debates on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. This is now recognized as a rather strange stage in their development but I am sure they did not think so then. (Though I must say there have been equally strange developments in some discussions today - have you heard about the current trend on 'possessed PCs'? Apparently a possessed PC can make anyone using it access pornographic sites etc. Dangerous stuff this modern technology!).

 

Seriously, I think it is important to separate the original message propounded by a great teacher, whether Krsna, Christ, Mohammed from the power structures that grow up using those ideas (which have great persuasive power) to mould and control society (even with the best of intentions). Unfortunately this has been true of all major world religions, and some of the developments have been diametrically opposed to the ideas of the original founding teacher. We now consider the exhortation made by Mohammed on female circumcision rather barbaric, but at the time he made them, apparently a far more horrific form of circumsicion was in effect and he attempted to persuade society to accept a more moderate version so that it would not do as much damage to women. Each teacher does form new ideas in a way that would facilitate acceptance of a society in a particular state and time.

 

Which is why I think that in interpreting Krsna's teachings in todays age, we should be careful not to take it verbatim, as a message intended for one audience in one time may have entirely different meanings in another. I personally understand it as someone trying to couch an idea within the context of that period. Especially given the presumably short time frame and extremely stressful circumstances under which these complex and new ideas had to be conveyed.

 

Regards,

 

Nimmi Ragavan

 

 

-

Dina-natha Das

varahamihira

Thursday, March 23, 2000 11:59 PM

[Jagannath] Re: Why are you all sleeping?

>"O son of Prtha, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower>birth -- women, merchants, and workers -- can attain the supreme>destination".

 

>The word "papa-yonayah" is significant here, as it means in>effect "those born of a lower family". Now, if there were no distinction>in Krsna's mind between the status of man and woman, why would He include>women, as a class, in the same category as vaisyas>(mercantile class), or Sudras laborer class)? >In fact, "Papa" refers to those impious activities they may direct one to>a lower birth in future lifetimes. The point Krsna makes, however, is>that one may be of any classification in society, but if he/she is>surrendered to the Supreme Absolute, then there really are no>distinctions. Materially there are, but spiritually there are not...."

 

>So if you don't want to accept the statements and authority of Srila Prabhupada and Chanakya >Pandit (both predicted in the scriptures) will you accept statement of Lord Krishna and authority of >Bhagavad Gita about position of women? Lord Krishna here in Bhagavad Gita 9.32. only confirms >statements of Chanakya Pandit and Srila Prabhupada (actually both of them were following >Bhagavad Gita when formulating their statements).