Guest guest Posted April 2, 2000 Report Share Posted April 2, 2000 Dear Sanjayji, Jaya Jagannatha! I would just like to share with other members of this list what we discussed today in connection with guru-sisya relationship and parampara. Some individuals on this list will derive great benefit from this conversation if they want to accept your words. First you explained that sisya gets mantra by iccha shakti of the guru which can be through few different ways (personally (verbally), or by letter (writing)). Then I asked you from where guru gets his mantra? You replied from his guru. Then I asked from where that guru gets his mantra and you replied from his guru and you said it goes back to Maharishis. Then I asked you from whom Maharishis get their mantra and you replied from Devatas. I asked you from whom Devatas get their mantra and you replied from Isa or Krishna. So I really hope that everyone has understood this simple point that you made this afternoon including certain individuals on this list who may hold different views on this issue and argue pointlessly that parampara doesn't have to be started by God or Isa. Hare Krishna, Dina-natha Das. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2000 Report Share Posted April 3, 2000 Dear Dinana-nath Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. Jaya Srila Prabhupada! >> which indicates passion and desire for prestige as real grounds behind all >> this campain. > >I am sorry but I don't understand whose desire for prestige and passion are >real grounds for this campaign? Of those people who represent Saturn. >>But the Raja-yoga in Gemini is stronger then Saturn in Pisces >> aspecting the same signs. So by Krishna's grace the truth will be >> victorious. > >Could you please explain what do you consider to be the truth in this >context when you say that the " truth will be > victorious. " I am asking because it is not very clear what you mean by >that. Gemini with Sun, Jupiter and Mars (which happen to be lords of all trines from the Moon) is stronger then Pisces with Saturn and aspects it. Being in the 3rd from Moon they show really forceful,. wise and Dharmic Para-krama. Your servant Yasomatinandana das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2000 Report Share Posted April 3, 2000 Namaste Narasimha, Jaya Jagannatha!>I have no disagreement with what Dina-natha wrote below. One gets a mantra from guru and it goes back to Maharshis. >Maharshis get their knowledge from Gods. Dina-natha is misrepresenting me and trying to show that I disagree with you ("If you >are not you can start arguing with Sanjay like Narasimha used to do with me."). Maharishis get their knowledge from Gods (Devatas) who get their knowledge from God, Isa or Krishna. That is exactly what I wrote. I wrote for Narayan that he can argue with Sanjay if he doesn't accepts his statement like you used argue with me. That letter was reply to Narayan. >(1) I only argued that you need not show the Saint upto whom you can trace your parampara to be God for your parampara to be >"genuine". When we trace the knowledge of mantra upto Maharshis, all knowledge is from Krishna!! Of course, yes. This is true >irrespective of whether we take a saint of a few centuries ago to be an incarnation of Vishnu or one with Vishnu's amsha. I do not >consider my views (understanding) to be against what Sanjay said. (Of course, if this is wrong, Sanjay could and can correct me.) No, this is not what you said (Guru-chandala yoga here it comes)! Your first argument was that there is no need to go beyond one's guru and try to trace back parampara. Than you said that parampara doesn't necessary have to come from God, and your last point was that there is no need to show if a saint (Caitanya Mahaprabhu) was Krishna's avatar. After you said in above paragraph that all knowledge is from Krishna, then if Caitanya Mahaprabhu wasn't avatar of Krishna how do you explain that Acyuta dasa got knowledge of Jyotish from him? Don't forget you wrote that all knowledge comes from Krishna as you wrote in above paragraph. >(3) If you say something to me in a personal mail that seems to be against Dina-natha's writings, I do not go on mentioning it in >my posts to silence Dina-natha. Mentioning a private discussion with you is incorrect. You are the person to articulate your views >correctly and not me or Dina-natha. Dina-natha should realize that you can articulate you views yourself. Some people have given up on you Narasimha, so I am just trying to help you. You've made significant advancement in your last message by accepting that all knowledge come from Krishna, so keep going. (4) Dina-natha said I do not come from any spiritual parampara. But I was initiated with Gayatri mantra and have some knowledge of sastras (it may not be perfect though). My father is my diksha guru and the parampara goes back to Gautama Maharshi. What about after Gautama Maharsi, there is someone there in parampara or no? (5) You told us many times that this list for Jyotish only. But I am not patient enough to ignore constant provocation, animosity and misrepresentation. Please forgive me. Well now we are discussing you as an example of Guru-chandala yoga, so after all we came to Jyotish. Hare Krishna, Dina-natha Das. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2000 Report Share Posted April 10, 2000 JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Narasimha! Pranaams. One's buddhi depends on one's karma. Who one gets as guru depends on one's karma. Both together decide what one learns, understands and does in this life. I'm wandering whether we can accept this statement full in the light of the Shastras. Chaitanya Charitamrita says brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva guru-krishna prasade paya bhakti-lata bija. Prabhupada translates it as one gets the Guru by Krishna's mercy and gets Krishna by the Guru's mercy. This mercy is said to be causeless, i.e. not based on the person's karma. This leaves room for thwo conclusions: 1. Getting a (spiritual) guru may be indicated by one's karma (purva-punya or pious/spiritual activities performed in last lives) and it is simultaneously out of mercy. I mean that a fertile soil for examle is unable to prodce crops by itself, however, it is capable of nourishing them once the seed is planted. 2. The other conclusion is that the horoscope shows not ony the person's karma but God's goodwill on him as well. Dear Gurudeva, please explain whichever is the correct conclusion. Your shishya, Gauranga das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2000 Report Share Posted April 10, 2000 OM VISHNAVE NAMAH Dear Gauranga, You made a nice statement about Srila. The three beejakshara for Sisya, Guru and Isa (God) are Hare, Rama and Krishna or Hrim, Shrim and Kleem respectively. Without either the continuity is lost. Thus a sisya needs a Guru as much as a Guru needs a Sisya and both need Krishna. This is symbolised by the first, fifth and ninth houses in the horoscope where Hare or Hreem is for worshipping the Lagna and good health, intelligence and character result. Shreem is for the Guru or the fifth house where PARAVIDYA (See BPHS) and all knowledge is found. Kleem is for Krishna in the ninth house where Dharma is found. Thus, Achyuta Dasa has advised the repetition of these three beejakshara with the name of Krishna and then the form in which you want to see Him. For example for Jagannath, we say: OM HRIM SHRIM KLEEM KRISHNAYA JAGANNATHAYA NAMAH Best Wishes Sanjay Rath P.S. What are you doing about the Surya Yantra? Have you established it? You need this for your eye problem. - Gauranga Das <gauranga Narasimha Rao <pvr; <varahamihira > Monday, April 10, 2000 1638 S Rath Re: [Jagannath] Re: Guru-Sisya > JAYA JAGANNATHA! > > Dear Narasimha! > > Pranaams. > > One's buddhi depends on one's > karma. Who one gets as guru > depends on one's karma. Both > together decide what one > learns, understands and does > in this life. > > I'm wandering whether we can > accept this statement full in > the light of the Shastras. > Chaitanya Charitamrita says > brahmanda bhramite kona > bhagyavan jiva guru-krishna > prasade paya bhakti-lata bija. > > Prabhupada translates it as > one gets the Guru by Krishna's > mercy and gets Krishna by the > Guru's mercy. This mercy is > said to be causeless, i.e. not > based on the person's karma. > This leaves room for thwo > conclusions: > > 1. Getting a (spiritual) guru > may be indicated by one's > karma (purva-punya or > pious/spiritual activities > performed in last lives) and > it is simultaneously out of > mercy. I mean that a fertile > soil for examle is unable to > prodce crops by itself, > however, it is capable of > nourishing them once the seed > is planted. > > 2. The other conclusion is > that the horoscope shows not > ony the person's karma but > God's goodwill on him as well. > > Dear Gurudeva, please explain > whichever is the correct > conclusion. > > Your shishya, Gauranga das > > > ------ > Get paid for the stuff you know! > Get answers for the stuff you don't. And get $10 to spend on the site! > http://click./1/2200/4/_/2192/_/955374327/ > ------ > > HARE RAMA KRISHNA > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2000 Report Share Posted April 11, 2000 JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Gurudeva, Pranaams. -----Eredeti üzenet----- Feladó: Sanjay Rath <srath Címzett: <varahamihira > Elküldve: 2000. április 10. 21:33 Tárgy: Re: [Jagannath] Re: Guru-Sisya OM VISHNAVE NAMAH Dear Gauranga, You made a nice statement about Srila. The three beejakshara for Sisya, Guru and Isa (God) are Hare, Rama and Krishna or Hrim, Shrim and Kleem respectively. Without either the continuity is lost. Thus a sisya needs a Guru as much as a Guru needs a Sisya and both need Krishna. This is symbolised by the first, fifth and ninth houses in the horoscope where Hare or Hreem is for worshipping the Lagna and good health, intelligence and character result. Shreem is for the Guru or the fifth house where PARAVIDYA (See BPHS) and all knowledge is found. Kleem is for Krishna in the ninth house where Dharma is found. Thus, Achyuta Dasa has advised the repetition of these three beejakshara with the name of Krishna and then the form in which you want to see Him. For example for Jagannath, we say: OM HRIM SHRIM KLEEM KRISHNAYA JAGANNATHAYA NAMAH Best Wishes Sanjay Rath P.S. What are you doing about the Surya Yantra? Have you established it? You need this for your eye problem. I don't know the exact method for establishing it. Plesae explain this to me or send a text which explains the Yantra Sthapana and the Puja. Your shishya, Gauranga das - Gauranga Das <gauranga Narasimha Rao <pvr; <varahamihira > Monday, April 10, 2000 1638 S Rath Re: [Jagannath] Re: Guru-Sisya > JAYA JAGANNATHA! > > Dear Narasimha! > > Pranaams. > > One's buddhi depends on one's > karma. Who one gets as guru > depends on one's karma. Both > together decide what one > learns, understands and does > in this life. > > I'm wandering whether we can > accept this statement full in > the light of the Shastras. > Chaitanya Charitamrita says > brahmanda bhramite kona > bhagyavan jiva guru-krishna > prasade paya bhakti-lata bija. > > Prabhupada translates it as > one gets the Guru by Krishna's > mercy and gets Krishna by the > Guru's mercy. This mercy is > said to be causeless, i.e. not > based on the person's karma. > This leaves room for thwo > conclusions: > > 1. Getting a (spiritual) guru > may be indicated by one's > karma (purva-punya or > pious/spiritual activities > performed in last lives) and > it is simultaneously out of > mercy. I mean that a fertile > soil for examle is unable to > prodce crops by itself, > however, it is capable of > nourishing them once the seed > is planted. > > 2. The other conclusion is > that the horoscope shows not > ony the person's karma but > God's goodwill on him as well. > > Dear Gurudeva, please explain > whichever is the correct > conclusion. > > Your shishya, Gauranga das > > > ------------------------- -------------- > Get paid for the stuff you know! > Get answers for the stuff you don't. And get $10 to spend on the site! > http://click./1/2200/4/_/2192/_/955374327/ > ------------------------- -------------- > > HARE RAMA KRISHNA > > > > --------------------------- ------------ Get paid for the stuff you know! Get answers for the stuff you don’t. And get $10 to spend on the site! http://click./1/2200/4/_/2192/_/955396379/ --------------------------- ------------ HARE RAMA KRISHNA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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