Karaka for sixth house

April 18, 2007

à¤¹à¤°à¥‡ à¤°à¤¾à¤® à¤•à¥ƒà¤·à¥à¤£à¥¥

Dear Shailesh, Namaskar

Comments under. Here I have also tried to answer the queries from your

more recent mail.

Yours sincerely,

--

Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

Jaimini SJC - Denmark

email: visti

For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com

Shailesh C Chadha wrote:

ï»¿

||

Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||

Â

Namaste

Visti,

Â

I

did mention the reason of my disappointment right in the beginning of

my mail - "I

do not expect a SJC guru to brush-off some very relevant quotes from

classics as mere statistics".

Visti:

Right, right. Point i was trying to make was that we need to read one

sloka at a time.

With

Rafal, my objection was to his question - "do have no faith".

Â

Anyways,

lets forget that - it is non-jyotish and disruptive.

I

make no claim that only my view point is rightÂ - I am ready to

beÂ unlearnÂ my errors if you can give me right authority and logical

explanation.

Â

And

I am the first to acknowledge your

deep study and vast knowledge of jyotish. So, let

it be a longÂ and wide discussion - I am sure I will learn a lot in the

process.

Â

But,

I request once again, do give due consideration to the quotes that

appear to be contrary to your line of argument or your belief.

Â

And,

starting with original Sanskrit text is a good idea - provided we can

do a proper and competent translation.

Â

Now,

when you mention <<this was the

exact problem we had with BPHS where the word 'enemy' was written as

'shatru' in one sloka and 'ripu' in another>> I fail to see the point you are trying to make. RIPU

and Â SHATRU are synonymous. Even the expanded meaning of RIPU, quoted

by you from Monier Williams << mfn.

deceitful , treacherous , false RV. m. a deceiver , cheat , rogue ib.

an enemy , adversary , foe Mn. MBh. & c.>> points towards shad-ripus, although purists would

object toÂ theÂ meanings attributed by Monier.Â Â

Visti: The point i was trying to make is that

ripu and shatru are quite different though their meanings are almost

similar on the surface assesment. Each sanskrit word is chosen very

carefully otherwise we must ask why Parasara didn't use the same word,

i.e. 'shatru' for enemies? Here is a similar example: both sixth and

eighth house show diseases but does that mean they are synonymous? No,

they are not and initially we learn a few keywords such as: eighth

house causes chronic diseases whereas the sixth causes more temporary

afflictions. More below.

Now consider this: the word SHATRU has been used for 6th

house and RIPU for 8th house. And I agree with you that SHATRU/6th

house would refer to ENEMY and RIPU/8th house to weaknesses etc.

Â

At another place (while quoting Harihara, reg. doshas) you

have said <<Â Agantuka refers to the karma

caused upon oneself... i.e. how you treated yourself>>. I feel you have got it wrong here. The common meaning

of word AGANTUKA is GUEST. Hence, we have to understand that AGANTUKA

DOSHAS as the doshas that come from outside, as compared with the NIJA

DOSHAS that arise within.

Visti:Â offered a digested perspective, which was somewhat

premature of me. However, you are right and indeed the diseases arising

out of the self/nija are those experienced internally and are from own

karma, whilst those arising out of the sixth house are usually

visible/external problems, hence the reason enmity/shatru is seen from

the sixth house. Here the meanings are also much more subtle as the

nija dosha brought by the self into this world because of their own bad

karma towards the world, whils the agantuka is that which the person

has invited due to their lack of purity.

Sanjayji has written an entire article on this when dealing with

ayurveda and diseases.

Please apply logic to this distinction

between AGANTUKA DOSHA(

6th house) and NIJA DOSHA (8th house)

and what do you get - 6th house is for the enemy outside and the 8th

house is for the enemy within.

Â

The above two arguments were presented by you

and what do we learn from them - that 6th house refers to the enemies

we encunter in the world and 8th house refers to the weaknesses we

carry within fronm the previous birth.

Then, please tell me, why are you insistent that shad-ripus be seen

from the 6th house??

Â

All your arguments prove that Shad-ripus be seen

from the 8th house.

Â

Do

I make sense??

Visti: There is a difference between Shadripu

and Dusthakarma. They are not the same and cannot both be alotted to

the eighth house which is what we would be left with if we see shadripu

in the eighth house. The six sins/ripu are our personal weaknesses,

which manifest externally in the form of ulcers, scars, enmity, etc. as

we have ascertained from the sixth house.

Also Harihara and Varahamihira have indicated

that all houses have internal attributes as well as external

attributes, hence it would be hard to justify that the sixth shows an

external effect of the eighth house as we would have to ask which are

the sixth houses internal attributes.

You mentioned in your most recent mail that ripu would be the CAUSE and

battle, enemies, etc. are the effect of the same. Thats perfectly fine

and is what i was trying to put across, but question is did it come

from the sixth or the eighth and how do we see what is the ripu?? do we

see the nature of it in the eighth and see its effects in the sixth or

what? - this is the question we are asking ourselves right now.

Ripu is an accepted word to describe the sixth house. But it doesn't

mean that we cannot see some ripu from the eighth house as Parasara has

indicated. Jataka Parijata mentions the names of the sixth house as:

"roga, aMshu, shastra, bhaya, shasta, ripu and kSata". For the

eighth house the names mentioned are: randhra, ayur, aShTa, raNa,

mR^ityu, vinAshana. I consider Jataka Parijata a very important text.

Yet, for the sake of clarification, in the tradition we are normally

supposed to follow the advise of Kalyana Verma as a supplement to the

tradition. Kalyana Verma has been abit short in his words about this

though, but Vaidyanath Dikshita is a very respected source on the same.

Knowing that ripu is specifically a name of the sixth house and that

there are six ripus allotted to it, it becomes almost too convenient to

alot the shad (six) ripu (sins) to the sixth. But this is not a fair

justification.

Also,

whatÂ is your understanding of the names assigned by the classics to the

two houses - ARI for the 6th and RANDHRA for the 8th? Is it not

suggestive of the functions/ signification of these two houses??

Visti:

Good question. But Ari is the external function of the sixth whilst the

internal is kshata. Similarly Randhra is the internal function of the

eighth whilst the external is Marana. So we should compare Kshata and

Randhra if we are to make a comparisen. Both mean faulty, hole, source

of weakness, etc. but Kshata refers more to wounds and such whilst

randhra refers to either the nine openings in the human body (eighth

house is responsible for the evacuation of various toxins) which are

necessary to cause the removal of toxins so the body can live long and

avoid death. Similarly Kshata shows the hole in our shield/kavacha

through which the Ari or oponent will strike as an external function.

To summarize: we cannot justify one house as being the internal quality

of another, as all houses have both internal and external traits. In

other words, the sixth house has an internal trait which is CAUSING the

enemies, battles, etc. to arise. We in the parampara understand the

sixth house as being the six ripus which manifest externally as

battles, addictions, strife, diseases, etc. We further understand that

the eighth shows dustha karma which will decide the length of life, the

sorrow and forced changes we will see as well as show our real karmic

debts towards the world.

Regards,

Â

-

Shailesh

April 18, 2007

à¤¹à¤°à¥‡ à¤°à¤¾à¤® à¤•à¥ƒà¤·à¥à¤£à¥¥

Dear Shailesh and Upendra, Namaskar

Sanjayji has for as long as i remember stated to us students that we

should treat Saturn as the main karaka for the sixth house. He has

mentioned that Mars is a secondary karaka, but an important one as

well... of course. This is clarifying for the record what has been

taught.

With this i would like to bring another question to light. What will

you use the knowledge of the karaka for?

The karaka shows how to remedy the house. I.e. If you worship

Lakshmi she will ensure that you have good relationships with people

(karaka of sixth) and you will be a sweetheart among your peers. If you

worship Vishnu your karmayoga will be completed (karaka of tenth) as

you will uphold your duty as a human being. This is a very standard

method of giving remedies.

Now the question is: how should we win over the sixth house? When

all the fights and battles start whilst enemies are on your doorstep,

will we worship Kartikeya and make mince-meat out of the enemies like

Bhima did? Or will you renounce (Saturn) all your sins which brought

these problems in the first place and be free of all the further karma

which may follow such trials just as the rishis did?

Obviously the last option is the best for us astrologers and is what

we recommend as well.

Yours sincerely,

--

Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

Jaimini SJC - Denmark

email: visti

For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com

Shailesh C Chadha wrote:

ï»¿

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo

Narayanaya ||

Namaste Rafal,

Lets forget the unpleasantness and take this discussion

forward in a healthy and meaningful way.

Ultimately, we are here to learn and thats what our focus

should be.

Please also understand that I have the utmost respect for my

Guru and I am sure no true Guru will purposely teach what is wrong.

And, the highest of the Gurus have always encouraged their shishyas to

go out and seek the truth, they too accept that they are human and are

always ready to acknowledge their errors.

If Sanjay ji has changed his view-point from what he has

mentioned in COVA and elsewhere, he should have a good reason for the

same and he has to reveal the same.

Till such time, I suggest we go with the classics. And there

are very strong reasons to do so, as I have mentioned in my mails to

Visti and Upendra has, in his latest mail.

Regards,

- Shailesh

-----

Original Message -----

Rafal Gendarz

To:

Sent:

Wednesday, April 18, 2007 1:15 PM

Subject:

Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house

hare rama krsna

Dear Shailesh,

Yes, its all depends on Pranamas we accept. For our logic the anumana

is important and for our faith the sabda element is important, I

recognized that You respect the logic in the big way. I do the same but

in the different proportion, therefore for me it was weird that

Sanjayji words are not final. Therefore there is bigÂ benefit to Your

discusion with sanskrit terms, philosophy of enemies vs flaws and all

that, but if we dont accept authority of Guru then I dont see the

difference between parampara and open forums in the western world where

the hierarchy of pranama is completely different. Dont take me as

blindsided, dogmatic - its simply the issue of proportion.I had no

intention to put bad emotion or low standart of discussion so forgive

me any bad usage of words.

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

SJC Guru

www.rohinaa.com

(+48) 503 44 18 18

Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):

ï»¿

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||

Â

Namaste Rafal,

Agreed to all your points - except:

- It is wrong to say I cannot take agruements; I am open

to all reasonable and logical agruments.

- In case of a contradiction between BPHS and Prasna

Marga(or any other classic), we HAVE to accept BPHS as the ultimate

authority; else ourÂ entire Jyotish teachings will collapse.Â

Regards,

- Shailesh

-

Rafal Gendarz

@ .

com

Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:29 AM

Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth

house

hare rama krsna

Dear Shailesh,

Its sad that You cant take this arguments as they sounds nice and

reasonable. So the problem is somewhere else..

Sanjayji in the lecture about diseases takes the division on diseases

from Prasna Marga and uses this in Natal. In the same place we do with

Badhak and other things. In Pransa Marga are many things which are

general in nature - like marriages (also in natal), ashtakavarga,

remedies, division of madness etc.

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

SJC Guru

www.rohinaa.

com

(+48) 503 44 18 18

Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):

ï»¿

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||

Â

Namaste Visti,

Let me start by saying that I am saddened with

your response.

I do not expect a SJC guru to brush-off some very

relevant quotes from classics as mere statistics.

If that was to be so, then why do we study them?

Is it only for the purpose of selectively quoting

from them when it suits our line of argument and dismiss the contrary

as irrelevant or unreliable?

I am sorry but that is not the way any healthy

discussion can be carried out - it just shows "assumed" intellectual

arrogance and it is the first step towards decline in learning.

And, to me the bottomline is that BPHS is the

supreme jyotish fointain-head; every thing else is a commentary or a

learning-aid.Â

Unless logically proved other-wise, no dictum or

parampara or Guru can over-ride BPHS teachings.

I do not have to remind you that " Sri Jagannath

Center (SJC) was established in India with the objective of teaching

jyotish in the tradition of maharishis like Parasara and Jaimini. "

Incidentally, neither you, nor Rafal

has offered any logical agrument to contradict what I have quoted.

Prasna Marga isÂ just that - applicable only

on Prasna - so please do notÂ use it for natal charts.

Regards,

- Shailesh

-

Visti

Larsen

@ .

com

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:25 PM

Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for

sixth house

à¤¹à¤°à¥‡ à¤°à¤¾à¤® à¤•à¥ƒà¤·à¥à¤£à¥¥

Dear Shailesh, Namaskar

Rafal has a point which also answers this question. All bhavas have a

root signification and that is why there is one MAIN karaka for each

bhava. I.e. we are suffering from the six weaknesses because we could

not keep our purity in the past life times. I.e. because we were too

prone to anger in this life our anger will be tested. Because we were

too attached to money in the past we will be put in situations where

taking money can carry serious problems. The root cause is our lack of

purity or excess of sin/ripu. Thus MANY MANY classics refer to the

sixth bhava by the name 'ripu' and from it we get diseases, accidents,

fights, enemies and all the other significations explained by Parasara.

These are however the negative indications and are all indicated by

Saturn as it is he who carries our dustha karma from many lifetimes and

gives it to us in the form of dukha or sorrow.

Now you qoute many classics, but mere statistics won't

help us. Especially the word 'sin' can have different meanings in

sanskrit. Prasna Marga is to my knowledge the only one who has

attempted to make this clear differentiation for us when describing the

nature of diseases. He states:

rogÃ¤stu dvividhÃ¤ jÃ¯eyÃ¤ nijÃ¤gantuvidbhedetaÃ¹

Translation: Two types of diseases (roga) are to be

known. Nija and Ã¤ gantu are the two.

Harihara later explains that nija is seen from the eighth and fifth

houses, whilst agantu is seen from the sixth and badhaka houses.

Nija dosha specifically refers to ones OWN karma/dosha. It refers to

the bad karma we have caused unto others/the world.

Agantuka refers to the karma caused upon oneself... i.e. how you

treated yourself

For this reason it is taught in the tradition that the

eighth lords RASI will show the place of the disease arising

out of nija dosha, whereas the sixth lords BHAVA will show the

diseases arising out of ones weaknesses/sin. .. I.e. the Rasis show the

world/God whilst the bhavas are created by the individual. Deep rooted

perspective indeed.

I hope the above makes the paramparas perspective much

clearer.

Karaka literally means: 'kara' acting/doer; 'ka' does. I.e. the one who

acts on behalf of another actor/doer. The closest English word is

significator. By making the karaka of a house strong you will overcome

the issues associated with that house. I.e. If the digestive fire is

good (sun) then the health will be perfect (lagna). If you keep

celibacy or purity (mars or some say mercury) then the weaknesses will

go away (sixth house). But... this is very idealistic. Most people have

the sins already and are acting on behalf of them, and really what they

need to do is renounce them and be strong enough to carry them before

projecting them on others. This act of carrying the sins is that of

Saturn and by making Saturn auspicious the native will never see sorrow

and easily cross this life. For this reason Saturn acts as a very

strong contender for the karakatva of the sixth house, and this is how

the tradition treats it.

So recite Om Namo Bhagavate Akuparaaya| and be strong to

carry your sins.

I hope this clarifies everything.

Yours sincerely,

--

Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

Jaimini SJC - Denmark

email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT)

com

For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.

com

Shailesh Chadha wrote:

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||

Â

Namaste Visti,

You have partly answered the question your self.

BPHS mentions 8th house for RIPU and your focus

is SHAD-RIPU - provided GC Sharmas version is accurate(as you said);

Just as you have mentioned to Tarun - it has to

be decided after thorough comparison.

So, lets leave that aside for the moment.

I will twist your question slightly:

is the sixth house confined ONLY to our internal

weaknesses (saturn) and the various problems associated with it?

Is it right to disregard all other

significations of 6 th house and consider only shad-ripus?

Please also consider the following -

BPHS:

Ch. 17.

Effects of 6th House

2. Ulcers/Bruises. Should 6ths Lord be

in 6th itself, or in Lagna, or 8th, there will be ulcers, or bruises on

the body. The RÄÅ›i, becoming 6th House, will lead to the knowledge of

the concerned limb.

Ch. 19.

Effects of 8th HouseÂ

2. Short Life. Should 8ths Lord join Lagnas

Lord, or a malefic and be in 8th itself, the native will be short

lived.

Ch. 24.

Effects of the House LordsÂ

1.Effects of Lagnas Lord in Various

HousesÂ

If Lagnas Lord is in 6th House and related to a

malefic the native will be devoid of physical happiness and will be

troubled by enemies, if there is no benefic Aspect.

If Lagnas Lord is in 8th House, the native will

be an accomplished scholar, be sickly, thievish, be given to much

anger, be a gambler and will join others wives

61. Effects of 6ths Lord in Various

HousesÂ

If 6ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be

sickly, famous, inimical to his own men, rich, honourable, adventurous

and virtuous.Â

85. Effects of 8ths Lord in Various

Houses

If 8ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be

devoid of physical felicity and will suffer from wounds. He will be

hostile to gods and Brahmins.Â

Satya Jataka

The sixth house

signifies diseases, troubles from enemies, worries, injuries,

litigation, sorrows, maternal uncle, injuries, armies, mental worries

and legal involvements.

The eighth house

signifies longevity, misfortunes, sins, debts, enmity, death,

difficulties, impediments, grief and unhappiness resulting from sins

committed in previous births, sudden and untimely death and enemies

Mars: He represents thick

red colour, fire, bricks, power, thorny trees, wild animals,

mosquitoes, bugs, sheep, bones, brothers, lands, houses, anger, war,

instruments, thieves, marrow of the bone, bitter taste, energy,

prowess, sin, wounds, battles, enemies, daring acts, cruelty and

torture, roaming in forests, bronze, golden waist-string, pomp and show

and a house on fire.

Saturn: indicates evil

nature, cunningness, impediments, wickedness, servants, mean acts,

thieves, old dilapidated houses, bitter fruits, forests, fruits with

thick skin, wild flowers, trees full of thorns, bamboos, palmyra trees,

margosa trees and wild animals.

Daivagyna Vallabha

Ill health, bad state, enemies, servants, cruel

deeds, heavy actions, witchcraft applied by enemies with an intention

of killing enemies, doubts, wars, uncle, buffaloes, diseases, etc. are

to be considered from the sixth house.

Longevity and enmity, death, ruling powers,

strife, quarrels, cleft, quarrels among relatives, hatred, places

difficult to approach, fort, destruction of wife and enemies, crossing

of rivers etc. are to be seen from the eighth house.

In most of the above quotes, sins and similar

weaknesses have been associated with 8 th house.

Furthermore, Sixth house is part of Artha

Trikona â€“ would not a Rajasic planet be a better significator?

Â

Regards,

Â

- Shailesh

On 17 Apr 2007 00:45:42 -0700, Visti Larsen

<visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT)

com> wrote:

à¤¹à¤°à¥‡ à¤°à¤¾à¤® à¤•à¥ƒà¤·à¥à¤£à¥¥

Dear Shailesh, Namaskar

I checked BPHS and found the translation in line with what you have

said. However when analyzing the sanskrit something becomes very

prevailent.

--sixth house--

mÄtulÄntakaÅ›aá¹kÄnÄá¹ Å›atrÅ«á¹Å›caiva vraá¹‡ÄdikÄn|

sapalnÄ«mÄtaraá¹ cÄpi á¹£aá¹£á¹habhÄvÄnnirÄ«ká¹£yet||7||

Here the word 'shatru' has been used to indicate the

enemies which leaves no doubt that the reference is to enemies.

--eighth house--

ÄyÅ« raá¹‡a ripuá¸¥ cÄpi durgaá¹ mï…—tadhanaá¹ tathÄ|

gatyanukÄdikaá¹ sarvaá¹ paÅ›yedraá¹dhrÄdvicaká¹£aá¹‡aá¸¥||

Here Sharma has translated 'ripu' as 'enemies' which

is only PARTLY correct. Here are the possible options from Monier

Williams:

Â mfn. deceitful , treacherous , false RV. m. a deceiver , cheat , rogue

ib. an enemy , adversary , foe Mn. MBh. & c.

As you can see this does not specifically indicate

enemy, but rather anyone who can deceive you or USE your weaknesses.

Further Sharma does comment that in the Bombay

edition of BPHS this sloka doesn't mention enemies at all. Btw. most

scripts accept the word 'ripu' as a well known indicator of the sixth

house. Parasara has just further shown that this can also be seen in

the eighth house which is fine.

o Reg. Mars vs. Saturn for the sixth house karakatva

o

Satyacharya also mentions Saturn whilst Parasara mentions Mars. The

question is do we accept that the sixth house shows our internal

weaknesses (saturn) and because of these the various problems in life

arise. Or do we accept that the sixth house shows our external enemies

(Mars)?

Yours sincerely,

--

Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

Jaimini SJC - Denmark

email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com

For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.

com

Shailesh Chandra Chadha wrote:

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||

Â

Namaste Visti,

Â

Your explanation, of equating 6th house to

shad-ripus is not in line with the jyotish principles.

Â

Shad-ripus areÂ six enemies -Â the enemies within.

- or weaknesses

Â

Weakness, and even enmity,Â is indicated byÂ 8th

bhava, not 6th.

Â

As per BPHS:

Indications of Ari Bhava.

Maternal uncle, doubts about death, enemies, ulcers, step-mother etc.

are to be estimated from Ari Bhava.

Â

Indications of Randhr Bhava.

Randhr Bhava indicates longevity, battle, enemies, forts, wealth of the

dead and things, that have happened and are to happen (in the past and

future births).

Â

Therefore, you are correct is associatingÂ Saturn

with Shad-ripus, and weaknesses, but do not assign the 6th bhava

karakatwa to Saturn.

Â

BPHS assigns it to Mars and we have no reason,

or any logical explanation to go against it.

Â

Regards,

Â

- Shailesh

@ .

com, Visti Larsen <visti

wrote:

>

> ??? ??? ??????

>

> Dear Tarun, Namaskar

> I have just come home from Serbia and saw your mail.

>

> Some words from the Serbian Orthodox priests have been repeating

> themselves in my mind. The greatest sign of strength is not in

winning

> great battles but in overcoming our own weaknesses. And these

weaknesses

> are those which compell us to incur sin. The main cause of all the

> battles, addictions, and other weaknesses arising from the sixth

house

> is ripu or sin. There are six sins: Kaama, Krodha, Lobha, Moha,

Madha

> and Matsyara.

>

> A good excercise is to look them up and asign one among the six

rajasic

> and tamasic planets to these.

>

> To overcome these the Orthodox church advises two necessary paths

or

> wings to 'fly' to God: 1) Fasting and 2) praying. The weapon/sword

of

> prayer is the /brianica/ or rosary and is a vital part of the

persons

> progression away from the sixth house. So also the 5th house

(prayer)

> and 12th house (fasting) are the houses of loss (12th) and

death/maraka

> (7th) from the sixth house of sin.

>

> The main cause of sin is SATURN, and for this reason the main

karaka for

> the sixth is Saturn. The sub-karakas are dependant on the type of

sin.

> Mars causes krodha or anger, and as a result of anger coming from

others

> or the native themself the native gets into battles, courtcases,

fights,

> etc... all this is Mars. Its a separate issue that these problems

may

> arise or be instigated by the other sins such as lobha (greed) or

kaama

> (lust). But, they are all sins.

>

> Yours sincerely,

>

> --

> Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

> Jaimini SJC - Denmark

> email: visti <visti@

....

> For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com

> <

http://srigaruda.com>

>

> Tarun wrote:

> >

> > Dear sir,

> >

> > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too.

> > 6th house is the house of satya.

> > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it

is

> > not always correct

> > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn.

> > if person has to fight in battle then mars

> > if he needs to be courageous then sun

> > if he needs mind to win the disputes

> >

> > so on...

> >

> > Please correct me where i went wrong.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Tarun

> >

> > @ .

com

> > <

%40. com>, "~Tarun~" tarun.virgo@

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear sir,

> > >

> > > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native

too.

> > > 6th house is the house of satya.

> > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory

....it is

> > not always correct

> > > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn.

> > > if person has to fight in battle then mars

> > > if he needs to be courageous then sun

> > > if he needs mind to win the disputes

> > >

> > > so on...

> > >

> > > Tarun correct me where i went wrong.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Tarun

> > >

> > > -

> > > kishore patnaik

> > > vedic astrology@

. com

> > <

vedic astrology%40g roups.com> ;

> > ancient_indian_

astrology

> > <

% 40. com> ;

> > Astro_Remedies@

. com

> > <

Astro_Remedies%40gro ups.com> ;

> > @ .

com <

%40. com> ;

> > lalkitab < lalkitab%40.

com> ;

> > naastrology

<

naastrology%40. com> ; SJC-

> > Africa < Africa%40.

com> ;

> > @ .

com <

%40. com> ;

> > sohamsa@ .com < sohamsa%40.

com> ;

> > Vedic Astrology-

Hyderabad

> > <

Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad% 40. com>

> > > Monday, April 16, 2007 10:57 PM

> > > [Om Krishna Guru] Karaka for sixth house

> > >

> > > dear all,

> > >

> > > there was an interesting topic going on right now in

varaha

> > mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and

hence,

> > for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages

into a

> > word document and am enclosing it here.

> > >

> > > I am sure the members will start an interesting thread

on this

> > topic in this group.

> > >

> > > Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if

i have

> > missed on any message in this thread.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > >

> > > kishore patnaik

> > >

> >

>

Â

--

Shailesh C Chadha

#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

Â Â Â Â Â Â (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you

feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't

mind.

- Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will

find an EXCUSE.

____________ _________ _________ __

April 18, 2007

à¤¹à¤°à¥‡ à¤°à¤¾à¤® à¤•à¥ƒà¤·à¥à¤£à¥¥

Dear Shailesh, Namaskar

Just to clarify: The event of Sanjayji teaching that Saturn is the

main-karaka of the sixth house is not one isolated to Serbia. When i

travelled with him throughout 2002-2005 he has always maintained this

in the discussions reg. karaka. It had become such an ingrain part of

jyotish for me that i taught the same to others as well. It was almost

as a given.

Rafal trust the tradition, which is good but we must all ask: Why is

the tradition right? and thereby question and make our foundation

stronger. I guess for Rafal this discussion is just to trivial.

Btw. how do you seek to use this knowledge of the main-karaka?

Yours sincerely,

--

Visti Larsen - SJC Guru

Jaimini SJC - Denmark

email: visti

For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com

Shailesh C Chadha wrote:

ï»¿

||

Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||

Namaste Rafal,

I think no useful purpose is going to be served by going

through the classics.

You have very clearly expressed your total disregard for the

sastras when you replied to Upenrda saying:

<< I repeat once again, there is

(1) sastra and (2) parampara. Being in SJC means that You accept the

teachings of the tradition. If thats the teaching of the tradition it

must be accepted and THEN you must change Your perspective and with

this new vision look at sastra's or seek the explanation and discuss

these points. If You do the opposite then its not the parampara anymore

as then the hierarchy id disturbed. If Sanjayji says its Sani, then

what I can do with my understanding of sanksrit, classics and all that

- that demands a real study which can take Your ten years, I put

weightage to my time and the Guru gives shortcuts in our way to Jyotish

which normally takes few lifetimes. Of course there are some people

which question Sanjayji words and follow own opinion, thats their way

of understanding.>>

And let me make it clear - you have no respect for Sanjay

ji's words either. Sarbani, and others,Â have given extensive quotes in

the past from COVA and various papers of Sanjay ji where he has clearly

mentioned as MarsÂ to beÂ the Karaka for 6th house.Â

But, unfortunately, you are fixated on what you and Visti

say was mentioned by Sanjay ji in Serbia. At that point of time, you

and Visti diverted the discussion to Shad-ripus.

Then, when I produced qoutes and arguments to show that

shad-ripus are in the domain of 8th house, you say that you are not

interested in shad-ripus.

What exactly do you want to prove?

Are you aware that Parampara and Guru are to take one to the

path of truth, not to negate the truth. Where sastras are silent,

Parampara and Guru are paramount. But where Sastras are clear and

specific, no Parampara or Guru can, or should, go against it. In such a

case, if it cannot be proved that the sastras are corrupted, one may

have to conlude that the teachings of such a Guru or Parampara are

flawed.

Can any one in these lists doubt the sincerety of Narsimha

Rao to SJC. Yet,Â can you recallÂ how many times he has questioned Sanjay

ji and persisted till he received the correct explanation?

Not that I equate my self to Narsimha but I do intend to be

a true seeker of knowledge and truth.

In Indian traditions, that is what we are taught.

Now, it is up to you to decide whether you are a

seeker of truth or a blind-follower.

Regards,

- Shailesh

Â

-----

Original Message -----

Rafal Gendarz

To:

Sent:

Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:18 PM

Subject:

Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house

hare rama krsna

Dear Shailesh,

Yes...so to conclude we have two things to do (1) seek further in

classics (2) ask Sanjayji for explanation..I dont have any more

arguments here.

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

SJC Guru

www.rohinaa.com

(+48) 503 44 18 18

Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):

ï»¿

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo

Narayanaya ||

Namaste Rafal,

Lets forget the unpleasantness and take this discussion

forward in a healthy and meaningful way.

Ultimately, we are here to learn and thats what our

focus should be.

Please also understand that I have the utmost respect

for my Guru and I am sure no true Guru will purposely teach what is

wrong. And, the highest of the Gurus have always encouraged their

shishyas to go out and seek the truth, they too accept that they are

human and are always ready to acknowledge their errors.

If Sanjay ji has changed his view-point from what he has

mentioned in COVA and elsewhere, he should have a good reason for the

same and he has to reveal the same.

Till such time, I suggest we go with the classics. And

there are very strong reasons to do so, as I have mentioned in my mails

to Visti and Upendra has, in his latest mail.

Regards,

- Shailesh

-----

Original Message -----

Rafal Gendarz

To:

Sent:

Wednesday, April 18, 2007 1:15 PM

Subject:

Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house

hare rama

krsna